City Council Services, Safety & Parks Committee · Tuesday, November 18, 2025 · City Council Digest

3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES

City Council Services, Safety & Parks Committee Meeting - September 30, 2025

packet pp.5–6

Topics: ParksPublic Safety

Open packet at p.5 ↗

Staff report:

APPROVAL OF MINUTES a) 09-30-25 City Council Services, Safety & Parks Page (0000) Committee Minutes CITY OF ISSAQUAH City Council Services, Safety & Parks Committee 6:30 PM Council Chambers, 135 E. September 30, 2025 MINUTES Sunset Way, Issaquah WA

4. AGENDA ITEMS

E-Motorcycle and E-Bicycle Ordinance COM 0182

30 min · Paula Schwan, Police Chief · packet pp.7–39

Topics: Land Use

▶ Watch from 7:44 Open packet at p.7 ↗

Staff report:

The Administration recommends that the two proposed ordinances be recommended for approval by City Council at the December 1 meeting.

1379 segments .txt ↗

0:08 ↗ Welcome everyone. I, Council Member

0:10 ↗ Marks, call the November 18th, 2025 City

0:13 ↗ Council Services, Safety, and Parts

0:15 ↗ Committee meeting to order. Before we

0:17 ↗ get to our meeting agenda, we have an an

0:20 ↗ item of special business. It is Council

0:22 ↗ Member Ray's last city council meeting

0:25 ↗ tonight. So, I'd like to invite Mayor

0:27 ↗ Polly to the lect turn to recognize

0:28 ↗ council member Ray.

0:30 ↗ >> And I would like you um chair to maybe

0:33 ↗ extend the five minute. I'm just

0:35 ↗ kidding. I don't want to freak about. I

0:37 ↗ know this is hard for council member

0:39 ↗ Ray, but thank you very much for the

0:41 ↗ opportunity tonight. Um there are a

0:44 ↗ couple of council members and myself

0:45 ↗ that are retiring this year and to get

0:47 ↗ an opportunity even just to speak

0:50 ↗ quietly at a committee meeting about the

0:53 ↗ work that the volunteers in our

0:55 ↗ community who step up for public service

0:57 ↗ do is a real treat for me. So Chris,

1:01 ↗ buckle up. Here we go. Um, I met Chris

1:05 ↗ about 9 to 10 years ago when he made his

1:07 ↗ first run for city council and uh,

1:10 ↗ persistent like I was. I did not make it

1:13 ↗ the first two times I tried. Uh, Chris

1:16 ↗ tried again and has served this

1:18 ↗ community from 2018 to 2025. But not

1:22 ↗ just as a council member. I can go

1:24 ↗ through there are multiple committees

1:26 ↗ that he chaired. He's a board member of

1:28 ↗ Eastside Fire and Rescue. He stepped up

1:31 ↗ during any kind of financial

1:32 ↗ conversation we had, including the ad

1:34 ↗ hoc long-term finance committee, which

1:37 ↗ um did fantastic work, by the way. Thank

1:39 ↗ you, council member Ray. But he also

1:41 ↗ stepped out in the region and he was

1:42 ↗ part of King County's growth management

1:44 ↗ planning council. He has also stepped up

1:46 ↗ for our council rules ad hoc committee,

1:48 ↗ which may sound kind of boring, but it's

1:50 ↗ actually kind of the rules procedure.

1:52 ↗ It's the way we get along with each

1:54 ↗ other in order to do this policy work

1:55 ↗ and decision-m.

1:57 ↗ Um he's on two different committees, the

2:00 ↗ planning development environment

2:01 ↗ council committee and the mobility and

2:02 ↗ infrastructure committee. So that's the

2:04 ↗ laundry list. But now I get to talk

2:06 ↗ about Chris. One thing I knew when I

2:09 ↗ came in to government work was that I

2:11 ↗ had some experience in a couple of

2:12 ↗ areas. I knew parks and wreck and I knew

2:15 ↗ public works. I did not know finance.

2:18 ↗ And I really appreciated all the council

2:21 ↗ members that I got to serve with over

2:22 ↗ the years who put the their favorite

2:26 ↗ topic was government finance, which

2:28 ↗ sounds very dry and very boring.

2:30 ↗ However, the number one duty we have as

2:33 ↗ a council and a mayor to this community

2:36 ↗ is to make sure that there we're always

2:38 ↗ here to deliver those essential services

2:41 ↗ of clean drinking water, sewer, waste

2:44 ↗ pickup, roads that you can drive on,

2:46 ↗ parks that you can play in. And you do

2:48 ↗ that by being a financial financially

2:52 ↗ engaged council member and making sure

2:55 ↗ that we are always thinking about what

2:57 ↗ it looks like down the road for years

2:58 ↗ and years to come and assessing our

3:01 ↗ financial health all the way along. It

3:03 ↗ is truly the number one duty of what we

3:06 ↗ do. We want to be here next month, next

3:08 ↗ year, and 10 years from now to provide

3:10 ↗ these services. And the only way we're

3:12 ↗ going to do it is if we're sure that

3:13 ↗ we're running a financially sustainable

3:16 ↗ um uh city government. So Chris, I just

3:20 ↗ have to tell you that I know everybody's

3:22 ↗ joking around that maybe you're a little

3:24 ↗ grumpy. I have never found you grumpy. I

3:27 ↗ have found you mildly annoyed when we're

3:30 ↗ not paying enough attention to the

3:32 ↗ fiscal concerns that you have. I think

3:34 ↗ you've done a really good job explaining

3:36 ↗ why certain things are important,

3:38 ↗ encouraging the council to really dig

3:40 ↗ deep on certain issues because I like

3:43 ↗ you, I want this city to thrive and

3:46 ↗ survive for decades and generations to

3:48 ↗ come. And so you brought a real real um

3:53 ↗ strong financial responsibility ethic

3:56 ↗ with you and you carried it through your

3:58 ↗ entire eight years of service. And for

4:00 ↗ that reason, we're not in a bad place.

4:04 ↗ We're in good shape. But you also had us

4:07 ↗ focus on the challenges ahead, which I

4:08 ↗ think is key to making sure that we're

4:10 ↗ still here decades and decades from now.

4:13 ↗ So, as a friend, a colleague, and a

4:15 ↗ council member, I need to tell you, you

4:17 ↗ will be missed. that it's hard for us uh

4:20 ↗ to know that tonight is your last public

4:22 ↗ meeting and that we will not have your

4:25 ↗ wise counsel going forward, but you're

4:28 ↗ here in our community and anything we

4:31 ↗ can do to celebrate you. Anything we can

4:33 ↗ do to welcome you into the fold in any

4:35 ↗ volunteer activity, you have the number

4:37 ↗ one spot, guy. You are it. You are

4:41 ↗ amazing person to work with and we are

4:43 ↗ so lucky as a community that we got to

4:46 ↗ have you for eight years. So, thank you.

4:49 ↗ And can I present you a plaque on behalf

4:53 ↗ of the city that I hope adorns your

4:55 ↗ lovely office up in Talis and just let

4:58 ↗ you know

4:59 ↗ you will be so sorely missed.

5:06 ↗ >> He's a good hugger. Just saying. Just

5:09 ↗ saying. Would you like to address your

5:10 ↗ committee members?

5:13 ↗ >> He does not want to talk. Um,

5:18 ↗ have you ever known a really an elected

5:21 ↗ not to be able to uh step up to a mic

5:23 ↗ and talk? So, it's it's a uh um I I

5:27 ↗ wasn't expecting to do this. So, I am

5:29 ↗ literally without without preparation.

5:32 ↗ But I was thinking on the drive over

5:34 ↗ here, what a uh amazing 8-year journey

5:38 ↗ this has been and some of the amazing

5:41 ↗ people that I have had the opportunity

5:43 ↗ to serve with both on the council um at

5:47 ↗ the administration um

5:50 ↗ at at King County through SCA um at East

5:53 ↗ Side Fire and Rescue. So, I'm just doing

5:55 ↗ the litany that the mayor just did. Um,

5:58 ↗ but the thing that I was really thinking

6:00 ↗ about was eight years ago take the first

6:01 ↗ time I stepped up those steps right over

6:03 ↗ there up into the DAS and like what a

6:06 ↗ weird feeling that was and then tonight

6:10 ↗ uh as I skipped up them um just how

6:13 ↗ familiar and comfortable and uh

6:15 ↗ different it feels uh 8 years later and

6:18 ↗ it feels um quite odd to be standing

6:21 ↗ here at the podium and not not up there

6:23 ↗ with you all. So with that I will uh I

6:25 ↗ will end my my brief remarks. Thank you.

7:25 ↗ Thank you for that, Madame Mayor. We

7:26 ↗ appreciate it.

7:28 ↗ >> And now we will move on to our agenda

7:29 ↗ items. And the first item of business is

7:32 ↗ public comment. Uh there are multiple

7:34 ↗ public comment opportunities at

7:36 ↗ tonight's meeting. There's a general

7:37 ↗ public comment opportunity at the

7:38 ↗ beginning of the meeting or you can make

7:40 ↗ comments after the presentation and

7:42 ↗ council question and answer period on

7:44 ↗ tonight's single agenda item. Uh members

7:46 ↗ of the public may address council at

7:47 ↗ this time in person or virtually. Those

7:49 ↗ who are signed up in advance to make

7:50 ↗ comments will be called on first. If you

7:52 ↗ are joining us virtually and would like

7:54 ↗ to make comments, please raise your

7:55 ↗ virtual hand. If you're on the phone,

7:57 ↗ press star three. If you have joined by

8:00 ↗ computer or smartphone, look for a hand

8:02 ↗ icon. This varies by device. One option

8:04 ↗ may be to go to the participant panel

8:06 ↗ and choose the raise hand icon in the

8:08 ↗ lower right hand corner. If you're in

8:10 ↗ the room and did not sign up, I will ask

8:11 ↗ for other speakers before closing this

8:13 ↗ portion of the meeting. We'll wait for a

8:15 ↗ moment to see if anyone raises their

8:17 ↗ hand virtually or physically.

8:21 ↗ Clerk, has anyone signed up to speak or

8:22 ↗ indicated a desire to speak this

8:24 ↗ evening?

8:25 ↗ >> No, chair, not at this time.

8:27 ↗ >> Thank you. As a reminder, written

8:28 ↗ comments can be submitted at any time to

8:30 ↗ city council isawwa.gov.

8:34 ↗ Uh, next up, we have our approval of

8:37 ↗ minutes. And what I would like to do is

8:39 ↗ see if there is any uh concerns or if we

8:42 ↗ can just uh view the minutes uh as

8:46 ↗ before

8:47 ↗ >> no please no objection to approval of

8:50 ↗ the minutes. With that we will then move

8:52 ↗ to our one item of regular business uh

8:55 ↗ this evening which is COOM0182

8:58 ↗ e motorcycle and ebicycle ordinance and

9:00 ↗ that's going to be presented by Chief

9:02 ↗ Schwan from the IPD. Welcome Chief

9:05 ↗ Schwan.

9:15 ↗ Good evening.

9:18 ↗ It's an honor and privilege to be the

9:20 ↗ last event that you're going to hear

9:22 ↗ within the city as far as business goes.

9:26 ↗ Am I moving the slides?

9:31 ↗ Okay. All right.

9:35 ↗ Can I just

9:40 ↗ because it's not moving.

9:44 ↗ >> Okay. Sorry.

9:51 ↗ >> So, we're returning with two related

9:53 ↗ ordinances.

9:55 ↗ The first is proposed new code section

9:57 ↗ defining in regulations use of e-

10:01 ↗ motorcycles and ebikes as discussed in

10:03 ↗ the September meeting. The second cleans

10:06 ↗ up the existing empoundment

10:08 ↗ um chapter and modernize to modernize it

10:11 ↗ and for impounding of e- motorcycles and

10:13 ↗ allowing for officers to use discretion

10:15 ↗ and allow e- motorcycles and ebikes to

10:17 ↗ be picked up same day as at the police

10:21 ↗ station as an option.

10:27 ↗ We have two places where we need

10:29 ↗ direction. the penalty section and the

10:33 ↗ overall approach of aligning ISQUA's

10:34 ↗ code language to match those of

10:36 ↗ surrounding jurisdictions.

10:42 ↗ At their previous committee direction on

10:45 ↗ September 30th at service of safety and

10:46 ↗ parks meeting, the administration

10:48 ↗ provided an overview of these issues in

10:50 ↗ Isiqua and the committee was in support

10:52 ↗ of the administration's recommendations

10:54 ↗ to develop a local ordinance with

10:56 ↗ definitions,

10:57 ↗ usage, and penalties to support state

11:00 ↗ action on defining and regulating e-

11:03 ↗ motorcycles and education for parents

11:05 ↗ and minors. The committee also strongly

11:07 ↗ supported means to ensure officers have

11:10 ↗ the tools they need. The ordinance

11:12 ↗ proposed today are one of the tools that

11:14 ↗ will help enforcement and education by

11:17 ↗ IPD.

11:22 ↗ So the goals of the new ordinance, these

11:24 ↗ are the goals the administration used to

11:26 ↗ craft the ordinances. These are based on

11:28 ↗ the committee feedback and IPD and parks

11:31 ↗ needs. Number one, ensure officers have

11:34 ↗ tools needed to make stops, education,

11:36 ↗ and issue infractions. Number two,

11:39 ↗ consistency and clarity on where ebikes

11:41 ↗ and e- motorcycles can be operated. And

11:44 ↗ number three, tailor penalties. Tailor

11:46 ↗ penalties to become educate guardians

11:49 ↗ and the riders.

11:53 ↗ So proposed definitions.

11:56 ↗ The first um ordinance creating a new

11:58 ↗ section of code for e- motorcycles and

12:01 ↗ ebikes has the following definitions.

12:04 ↗ And the e- motorcycle definition is

12:06 ↗ likely the most important and nuanced as

12:08 ↗ the other terms are defined in the RCW.

12:12 ↗ We propose that an e- motorcycle is a

12:15 ↗ motorcycle powered in full or in part by

12:17 ↗ electricity and that does not have

12:19 ↗ operable foot pedals or exceeds 750

12:23 ↗ watts or the motor continues to assist

12:26 ↗ even when it exceeds 28 mph.

12:30 ↗ The definition is written this way to

12:32 ↗ ensure it and it captures the e- dirt

12:34 ↗ bikes and ebikes that are modified

12:36 ↗ beyond the capabilities listed in the

12:38 ↗ RCW.

12:45 ↗ So some of the proposed requirements for

12:47 ↗ the operations

12:49 ↗ the proposed ordinance has numerous

12:51 ↗ requirements to the operation of e-

12:53 ↗ motorcycles drawn from the RCW. The

12:56 ↗ issues we most commonly see are noted on

12:59 ↗ the slide. Minors under the age of 16

13:03 ↗ and operating without registration,

13:05 ↗ without license plates, without lensure

13:08 ↗ or motorcycle endorsements.

13:11 ↗ Ebikes are subject to less regulation

13:14 ↗ because we don't want to widely

13:16 ↗ discourage but other portions of the

13:19 ↗ code and RCW have provisions for safety

13:22 ↗ including requirements for helmets that

13:24 ↗ you must be 16 or older for class 3

13:27 ↗ bikes which are the ones capable for

13:29 ↗ going faster and motor assistance.

13:44 ↗ So the chart here talks about where the

13:47 ↗ operation is allowed based on the

13:49 ↗ different types of the bikes themselves.

13:52 ↗ Number one, to be street legal,

13:54 ↗ motorcycles need to meet requirements in

13:56 ↗ the RCW. Number two, class 3 ebikes can

13:59 ↗ only be on sidewalks when there is

14:01 ↗ alternative bike path or where there is

14:03 ↗ no an alter not an alternative bike

14:05 ↗ path. And the parks director can

14:07 ↗ prohibit ebike use on city parks, trails

14:10 ↗ or city park trails, city parks, and

14:12 ↗ plazas and will post signs noting that

14:15 ↗ prohibition in those specific areas

14:19 ↗ assuming a rider meets all the

14:20 ↗ >> I'm sorry, Chief. I I think council

14:22 ↗ member Ray has a question.

14:22 ↗ >> Oh, go ahead.

14:23 ↗ >> Um uh uh thanks, Chief. This is great.

14:26 ↗ I'm I there's a an inconsistency between

14:29 ↗ this chart and the ordinance as written

14:32 ↗ because the ordinance has the um parks

14:36 ↗ and community services director has

14:38 ↗ authority over street sidewalks and

14:40 ↗ pedestrian paths and shared use paths as

14:42 ↗ well as parks and city

14:45 ↗ city uh city parks and park trails.

14:50 ↗ >> Go ahead.

14:54 ↗ >> Uh Jillian Shaw, management analyst.

14:55 ↗ Thank you for pointing that out. That

14:56 ↗ should just say that the park park parks

14:58 ↗ director um has authority over the items

15:00 ↗ in the city parks, those plazas, um park

15:03 ↗ trails and those things, not the streets

15:05 ↗ and sidewalks.

15:07 ↗ >> So the the ordinance has that we we're

15:10 ↗ looking at is needs to be amended.

15:12 ↗ >> Yes.

15:13 ↗ >> Okay.

15:14 ↗ >> Sorry, I didn't realize that

15:15 ↗ inconsistency till you pointed it out.

15:18 ↗ >> Okay. Okay. We'll talk about that.

15:24 ↗ Thank you, Miss Tub.

15:28 ↗ >> So, Chief, can I ask a question about

15:29 ↗ this? So, if you're a 14year-old or a

15:32 ↗ 15y old, you can only use the class one

15:35 ↗ and class 2. Is that correct? You can't

15:37 ↗ use the class 3.

15:38 ↗ >> Correct.

15:39 ↗ >> So, if you're a 14 or a 15y old, you can

15:42 ↗ go anywhere on your class one or class 2

15:45 ↗ ebike essentially. But not anywhere, but

15:47 ↗ any of the listed uh areas in in in

15:51 ↗ this, right? Correct. Unless it's

15:52 ↗ otherwise noted by the parks director

15:54 ↗ for like if there's a specific park or

15:56 ↗ trailway that they're saying they don't

15:57 ↗ want that on for worry of damage and so

16:00 ↗ forth, then it would be prohibited in

16:01 ↗ those, but it must be posted as such.

16:04 ↗ >> Got it. But if you're older and you're

16:06 ↗ using a class 3 or an e- motorcycle,

16:08 ↗ then it is more complicated because you

16:09 ↗ are on a more uh powerful

16:13 ↗ and larger and faster vehicle. That's

16:15 ↗ and and this is um this is if we enact

16:19 ↗ this these this chart will be in effect.

16:22 ↗ >> That is correct.

16:23 ↗ >> Okay. Thank you.

16:25 ↗ >> Again, council member,

16:26 ↗ >> I'm sorry. Um so you brought up the 14

16:29 ↗ 15. I didn't see a lower age restriction

16:31 ↗ on class one and two. Is did I just miss

16:33 ↗ that?

16:34 ↗ >> No, it's just you have to be over 16 to

16:37 ↗ do the class three. Yeah.

16:38 ↗ >> It's not specifically 14 and 15. It just

16:40 ↗ >> So there's no age restriction on class

16:42 ↗ one and class two

16:43 ↗ >> to my understanding. No, not with an

16:45 ↗ ordinance the way it

16:46 ↗ >> set. Great.

16:47 ↗ >> I was just trying to understand if if I

16:48 ↗ were a 14 or a 15.

16:50 ↗ >> Yeah. Or a 12 or

16:51 ↗ >> 12 or 10. Yeah. But you understand my

16:53 ↗ point. I just want to understand for for

16:56 ↗ residents that are too young to have

16:57 ↗ their driver's license, right? What is

16:59 ↗ the what is the regulatory landscape and

17:01 ↗ I I just wanted to understand.

17:03 ↗ >> No, no, that's great. I just I have

17:05 ↗ concern about that, too.

17:08 ↗ Okay.

17:09 ↗ >> Please continue.

17:15 ↗ As you can see, e- motorcycles are

17:17 ↗ allowed only on the street, while class

17:19 ↗ one and two bikes are allowed most

17:21 ↗ places, similar to regular pedal bikes.

17:23 ↗ Class 3 ebikes are allowed on streets

17:25 ↗ and the sidewalk if no alternative path

17:28 ↗ is provided, but cannot be on pedestrian

17:31 ↗ paths, shared use paths, park trails,

17:34 ↗ and city parks. These recommendations

17:36 ↗ are developed by looking at where King

17:38 ↗ County parks allow different classes of

17:40 ↗ ebikes as well as other cities.

17:43 ↗ An item that came up at the September

17:45 ↗ meeting is speed, particularly for off-

17:47 ↗ streetet use. This will be a topic of

17:49 ↗ discussion next year for park staff and

17:51 ↗ the parks board as they develop a

17:52 ↗ dedicated parks portion of the code

17:55 ↗ itself.

18:00 ↗ The proposed empalment and penalty

18:02 ↗ options.

18:04 ↗ So number one, empoundment future

18:06 ↗ exploration of impounding ebikes at the

18:08 ↗ station code revision to 1034 would

18:11 ↗ allow motorcycles and ebikes to be

18:14 ↗ picked up at the station but not stored.

18:18 ↗ So number two, tiered violation

18:20 ↗ penalties for operator or guardian of

18:22 ↗ operator. First offense would be $250.

18:24 ↗ Second would be 500. Third would

18:27 ↗ subsequent offenses 750.

18:30 ↗ The proposed ordinances address

18:31 ↗ empoundment and penalties. The second

18:33 ↗ ordinance proposed would allow ebikes

18:35 ↗ and e- motorcycles to be picked up at

18:36 ↗ the police station likely the same day

18:39 ↗ as the stop, but that is subject to IPD

18:42 ↗ policy. Of course, this

18:44 ↗ >> I'm sorry, Chief. Can can I'm still a

18:46 ↗ little confused.

18:47 ↗ >> So, what does it mean? They can be

18:49 ↗ picked up at the station, but not

18:50 ↗ stored. So,

18:52 ↗ >> so what we're saying is that for

18:53 ↗ example, um for a juvenile for example

18:56 ↗ that cannot uh we can't allow to ride

18:59 ↗ the bike further, um they can go home,

19:01 ↗ get their parent, and they would likely

19:03 ↗ be able to come and pick it up at the

19:04 ↗ station. Um they would have to be picked

19:06 ↗ out within a certain mar period of time.

19:09 ↗ Um we would notify that individual that

19:11 ↗ if you can get your parent here by 9:00

19:13 ↗ p.m. or whatever that looks like, um

19:15 ↗ it's not going to be stored there

19:16 ↗ indefinitely. We don't have the room or

19:18 ↗ capacity at city hall as you can imagine

19:20 ↗ with um circumstances in space as it is.

19:23 ↗ We're not going to have the capacity to

19:24 ↗ store them for extended periods. So, it

19:27 ↗ would be something that maybe an officer

19:30 ↗ made the phone call while they were at

19:31 ↗ the stop, got a was able to get a hold

19:33 ↗ of a parent saying this is what's

19:34 ↗ happening. We'll have it at the station.

19:36 ↗ We'll be able to come get it. Or we

19:38 ↗ would have the option to have someone

19:39 ↗ come in and pound it. That would be of

19:41 ↗ like a impound company or a tow truck

19:43 ↗ cuz that had they have the option to

19:45 ↗ store it which we do not.

19:47 ↗ >> I see. Okay. I was just thinking in

19:50 ↗ terms of if you had a kid whose parent

19:52 ↗ was working or something and they're you

19:54 ↗ know and if they can't be there

19:58 ↗ I I mean you know if they're working all

19:59 ↗ day

20:00 ↗ >> that would be the that's the other

20:01 ↗ option too. We would that's why we'd try

20:03 ↗ and make a phone call to say this is

20:05 ↗ what's happening. Would you possibly be

20:07 ↗ able to come and get it? the officer

20:08 ↗ would be able to hopefully make that

20:10 ↗ discernment and say whether or not we

20:12 ↗ would be taking it to the station or we

20:14 ↗ would call an impound service to have

20:16 ↗ them take it and they would store it

20:17 ↗ there.

20:17 ↗ >> Got it. Okay. Thank you.

20:27 ↗ >> The counts for a scenario where example

20:28 ↗ um an IP officer makes a stop where they

20:30 ↗ cannot allow the minor to ride the ebike

20:32 ↗ home after the stop but the guardian can

20:34 ↗ come pick it up that day. This can be a

20:36 ↗ useful education tool and another

20:38 ↗ opportunity to communicate with

20:39 ↗ guardians rather than impounding it

20:41 ↗ straight to a toll lot where there's so

20:43 ↗ many fees that are incurred for that and

20:47 ↗ where the contact between the officer

20:48 ↗ and the guardian at that point. Um the

20:51 ↗ change to IMC 1034 allows officers the

20:54 ↗ flexibility to have the e- motorcycle

20:56 ↗ ebike to be picked up at the station but

20:57 ↗ does not mandate this um approach to be

21:01 ↗ used necessarily.

21:03 ↗ Um, additionally, new ordinance proposes

21:05 ↗ tiered penalties for violations of the

21:07 ↗ section. As written, those penalties are

21:10 ↗ the same for ebikes and e- motorcycles.

21:12 ↗ For example, if a 15-year-old was

21:13 ↗ stopped for riding a class 3 bike, they

21:16 ↗ could be assessed the same penalty for

21:18 ↗ under code as a 15-year-old stopped for

21:20 ↗ riding an e- motorcycle. E- motorcycle

21:23 ↗ infractions do have the option to refer

21:25 ↗ with criminal charges, but the penalties

21:27 ↗ are otherwise similar. This is an area

21:29 ↗ where we would like the committee's

21:31 ↗ feedback to understand if keeping the

21:32 ↗ penalties the same are appropriate given

21:35 ↗ that most penalties will likely be given

21:37 ↗ to e- motorcycle users or if the penalty

21:40 ↗ should be different given the additional

21:42 ↗ safety issues and or with the

21:44 ↗ motorcycles.

21:53 ↗ So, timing and next steps.

21:55 ↗ The city council approved a uh a

21:57 ↗ legislative policy manual that directs

21:59 ↗ the administration to support changes to

22:01 ↗ the state level around these issues. We

22:04 ↗ will also continue to monitor this issue

22:06 ↗ and develop outreach and education. We

22:09 ↗ are proposing that the ordinances are

22:11 ↗ adopted on December 1 of 25. Um the

22:14 ↗ timing and next steps would be support

22:15 ↗ changes to the state law to aid in law

22:18 ↗ enforcement, continue to monitor ebike

22:20 ↗ and e- motorcycle trends in Isiqua. both

22:22 ↗ ordinance proposed for adoption in

22:24 ↗ December of 25 and education efforts.

22:29 ↗ So the direction needed specifically

22:32 ↗ is should the penalties for ebike or e-

22:35 ↗ motorcycle violations of the proposed

22:36 ↗ chapter be the same or different? Does

22:39 ↗ the committee agree or disagree with the

22:40 ↗ administration's recommendation to

22:42 ↗ tailor the code to closely match

22:43 ↗ neighbor neighboring jurisdictions? With

22:46 ↗ that, we we um first we would excuse me,

22:50 ↗ first should the penalties for ebikes or

22:52 ↗ motorcycles be the same as mentioned? Um

22:55 ↗ recalling the chapter earlier for

22:56 ↗ 15-year-olds who could be given the same

22:58 ↗ monetary penalty for riding a class 3

23:00 ↗ bike or an e motorcycle. And second,

23:02 ↗ does the committee agree with the

23:04 ↗ recommendation as it's been proposed um

23:06 ↗ to closely match neighboring

23:08 ↗ jurisdictions?

23:14 ↗ So, do we have any further questions?

23:17 ↗ Uh,

23:18 ↗ >> yes, Deputy Council President.

23:20 ↗ >> Sorry,

23:24 ↗ >> just a a couple of questions. Um, I

23:26 ↗ noticed that you contacted Belleview and

23:28 ↗ Sebamish and King County Parks. Uh, is

23:32 ↗ has King County itself taken any

23:35 ↗ position on ebikes or e- motorcycles? Um

23:39 ↗ uh in other words, are we consistent

23:41 ↗ with the King County Sheriff's or um are

23:44 ↗ they still have they still not adopted

23:46 ↗ anything?

23:47 ↗ >> Um Jillian,

23:51 ↗ >> we didn't contact King County Sheriff's

23:53 ↗ in part because of the the roadways

23:55 ↗ we're considering where ebikes and

23:56 ↗ motorcycles are most commonly used being

23:58 ↗ subject to local jurisdiction. Um, we

24:01 ↗ looked at parks because of the kind of

24:03 ↗ interconnected nature of uh, Isiqua

24:06 ↗ Parks and King County park systems here.

24:08 ↗ Um, however, this is closely aligned to

24:11 ↗ RCW, which is what the King County

24:13 ↗ Sheriff's would be enforcing as well.

24:15 ↗ >> Okay, thanks. Uh, and then, um, there a

24:21 ↗ parent that chooses to or or maybe has

24:23 ↗ to say, uh, I can't come and get that

24:27 ↗ bike now. Um, can you take it to be

24:30 ↗ impounded? So, there would be definitely

24:32 ↗ an additional charge besides the fine.

24:35 ↗ >> Yes.

24:36 ↗ >> Right. So, it could be uh so 250, let's

24:39 ↗ just say first offense, 250 plus 150 or

24:43 ↗ so for what do you think it would kind

24:46 ↗ of pencil out to for the total cost uh

24:49 ↗ if they can't pick up the bicycle right

24:51 ↗ away?

24:51 ↗ >> Impound fees for an impound company um

24:54 ↗ that's specific to each impound company.

24:56 ↗ It's where they come from. they have to

24:58 ↗ bring a typically a flatbed versus a tow

25:00 ↗ truck. So that's often different.

25:02 ↗ There's storage fees that go in with

25:04 ↗ that if they can't pick it up with

25:05 ↗ certain number of days, no different

25:06 ↗ than it would be for a vehicle.

25:08 ↗ >> Um and so if there was a timely manner

25:11 ↗ that what they could come get it and

25:12 ↗ they could guarantee it could be that we

25:15 ↗ could store it maybe till the next day

25:16 ↗ when a property evidence person's there

25:18 ↗ or when the parent it was a Saturday.

25:20 ↗ >> Um but it would definitely be where it

25:23 ↗ couldn't be an indefinite process,

25:25 ↗ right? and we would it need it to be

25:28 ↗ timely. It's also going to be relevant

25:31 ↗ to how we get it to the police

25:33 ↗ department. So, if we have no ability to

25:36 ↗ get it to the police department, that's

25:38 ↗ going to be another reason if they're

25:39 ↗ not able to come get it that it would

25:40 ↗ also be impounded. But the officer would

25:42 ↗ have that discretion cuz some of the

25:43 ↗ bikes will fit in the back of our cars

25:45 ↗ and some of them won't.

25:47 ↗ >> Um, we do have options because we do

25:49 ↗ have our own bikes that we have and we

25:51 ↗ have to be able to transport them

25:53 ↗ sometimes. So we do have means um but

25:56 ↗ not for multiple cars or bikes on a

26:00 ↗ regular basis and again definitely not

26:01 ↗ the room for the storage. So uh

26:04 ↗ communication with the parents or the

26:06 ↗ owners I should say cuz sometimes it

26:08 ↗ maybe it's their friend's bike that they

26:09 ↗ were riding or the neighbor.

26:11 ↗ >> So we want to make sure that they have

26:12 ↗ that opportunity and we're able to

26:14 ↗ communicate with them.

26:15 ↗ >> Okay, great. Um and so this is uh just

26:19 ↗ um asking how the enforcement would go.

26:22 ↗ If the if the bike and the motorcycle

26:26 ↗ requirements are the same or regulations

26:28 ↗ are the same, does that make it easier

26:30 ↗ for you to enforce? Uh or is is it is it

26:35 ↗ a matter of fairness to the individuals?

26:38 ↗ Uh why are you why are you proposing

26:40 ↗ that there would be a differential

26:42 ↗ between motorcycles and bikes? I guess

26:45 ↗ >> uh well the motorcycles go faster.

26:46 ↗ There's a lot more ability for danger um

26:50 ↗ and injury to pedestrians or the people

26:52 ↗ that are around. There's the concern and

26:54 ↗ worry for ebikes specifically because of

26:56 ↗ the power and the wattage that they have

26:59 ↗ that someone like I said can be hurt and

27:01 ↗ we require for a motorcycle or an ebike

27:04 ↗ um or certain wattage that they have to

27:06 ↗ have certain um endorsements for example

27:09 ↗ like for a motorcycle you have to have

27:10 ↗ an endorsement to be able to be legally

27:12 ↗ driving that. um that also go along with

27:14 ↗ those helmet laws and such. So those

27:17 ↗ things are one and we want to be very

27:19 ↗ equal with that but that's the reason

27:21 ↗ for the um noting of the differences of

27:24 ↗ them um and how we require them to have

27:27 ↗ a license for ones and not for the

27:29 ↗ other.

27:30 ↗ >> Okay. Thank you.

27:33 ↗ >> So do we have any other questions before

27:35 ↗ we move to the deliberative council

27:37 ↗ member Ray?

27:38 ↗ >> I do. So, um, thanks for, um, for all of

27:42 ↗ this because I think it's really

27:43 ↗ interesting. So, going to the state, um,

27:47 ↗ state code. So, RCW46-.04.169,

27:52 ↗ that's really just a definition of of

27:54 ↗ class 2 and 3 um, ebikes, right? And

27:58 ↗ nothing more than just these are the

28:01 ↗ parameters and characteristics of them.

28:03 ↗ So, does state law at all speak to

28:05 ↗ anything other than a classification

28:08 ↗ system? Are there any controls, any

28:10 ↗ regulations, any any anything? Or are we

28:12 ↗ we kind of on our own when it comes to

28:14 ↗ regulation or is this something we want

28:17 ↗ to push heavy into the legislative

28:19 ↗ agenda?

28:21 ↗ >> Oh, I can answer part of that and then

28:23 ↗ I'll let you. Um I know on the class 3

28:25 ↗ and then we talked about the uh

28:27 ↗ motorcycles as well. Um there is a

28:29 ↗ certain portion that becomes where the

28:31 ↗ endorsements are required. That is a big

28:33 ↗ stipulation within the RCW and the law

28:35 ↗ for what that enforcement and becomes

28:36 ↗ criminal. And so this is also a a the

28:40 ↗ education piece that was mentioned on

28:42 ↗ September 30th is that we wanted to do a

28:44 ↗ little bit more educating versus it

28:45 ↗ being criminal and to help those

28:48 ↗ individuals. We had some individuals

28:50 ↗ that stopped even as as officers um

28:52 ↗ during salmon days was great. Having a

28:54 ↗ conversation um some people walking by

28:57 ↗ thought they were in trouble but they

28:58 ↗ were just asking questions and I thought

29:00 ↗ that was great and huge of them to to do

29:02 ↗ so and getting some of that

29:03 ↗ clarification and wanting to know the

29:05 ↗ circumstances. they walked up pushing

29:07 ↗ their bikes um for the moment and it it

29:09 ↗ was great to have that but that's kind

29:11 ↗ of the intent as well that's not in the

29:12 ↗ RCW itself. I'll let Jillian also speak

29:15 ↗ to that.

29:17 ↗ >> Yeah. So the RCW really does clearly lay

29:19 ↗ out the the differences in types of

29:22 ↗ ebikes in a way that we don't see in

29:24 ↗ motorcycles. So that's why we've really

29:25 ↗ focused a lot of our effort here on

29:27 ↗ better defining e- motorcycles because

29:29 ↗ we don't have that same definition in

29:31 ↗ state code. Um, we aren't proposing any

29:34 ↗ changes to how the state has regulated

29:36 ↗ or classified ebikes, including where

29:38 ↗ they can be used and who can use them.

29:40 ↗ That all mirrors what's in RCW right

29:42 ↗ now.

29:43 ↗ >> Yeah. But it seems to me that the RCW

29:45 ↗ doesn't speak to it at all. It leaves it

29:46 ↗ actually undefined. It just says this is

29:48 ↗ what they are, but there's no you can

29:51 ↗ there's no cans and can'tss and wills

29:53 ↗ and won'ts and dos and don'ts. There is

29:55 ↗ another section of RCW, I can find it

29:57 ↗ and perhaps send it after that does

29:59 ↗ state where class 3es can be used,

30:02 ↗ including that differential on when they

30:03 ↗ can be used on the sidewalk versus not.

30:05 ↗ That comes from RCW.

30:07 ↗ >> Okay, great. Thanks. Um, no, and I think

30:09 ↗ that this is more of a comment than a

30:12 ↗ question, but I'm I'm I'm sliding it in

30:14 ↗ here anyway. And I think, you know,

30:16 ↗ separating out the motorcycles, that's

30:18 ↗ clearly a different beast. Um I think

30:21 ↗ the interesting thing is that class one,

30:23 ↗ two, and three ebikes. Um have you

30:26 ↗ ridden an ebike? Because they're heavy.

30:28 ↗ >> Yeah.

30:29 ↗ >> And um and so that that's why I thought

30:31 ↗ the question about age was interesting.

30:33 ↗ And but there is no instate statute any

30:36 ↗ kind of uh uh age restrictions or

30:40 ↗ certification restrictions or anything

30:41 ↗ like that around ebikes at all.

30:44 ↗ To my knowledge, I know the certain

30:46 ↗ RCWs, but does require based on the

30:48 ↗ wattage and how which ones need to be

30:51 ↗ licensed to be on a road. Um, it does

30:53 ↗ make a difference on whether or not you

30:55 ↗ have to have a license and there are is

30:56 ↗ RCW around that specifically. Um, so

31:00 ↗ that I I can say is uh because you do

31:02 ↗ have to have a license for class 3 and

31:04 ↗ above and so that is specific in those

31:06 ↗ other RCWs.

31:08 ↗ >> Okay, great. Thank you so much.

31:09 ↗ >> Yes. So just to follow up on that, so

31:12 ↗ the tiered violation penalties is that

31:16 ↗ that's not in state law. That would just

31:18 ↗ be us.

31:19 ↗ >> That's just fines that are just for us

31:21 ↗ monetary as far as because the others

31:23 ↗ become a civil infraction to where then

31:26 ↗ or so or it's criminal because you're

31:28 ↗ writing something without a license. So

31:30 ↗ then it also becomes to where license

31:33 ↗ could get suspended before you even have

31:35 ↗ one if you're underage, which we're

31:37 ↗ we're preferring. And this would be a

31:38 ↗ deterrent to or an alternative to that

31:43 ↗ being specific and giving them an actual

31:45 ↗ appearance before a judge. Um they can

31:47 ↗ go before a hearing, but it's not

31:48 ↗ intended necessarily to go be um

31:50 ↗ punitive in that fashion that can affect

31:53 ↗ their driver's license, so to speak.

31:54 ↗ >> Got it. But if you to the earlier

31:57 ↗ question about uninccorporated King

31:58 ↗ County following state law, like there

32:00 ↗ isn't a there isn't a tiered violation

32:03 ↗ penalty in, you know, unincorporated

32:05 ↗ King County. This would be

32:06 ↗ >> not to my knowledge.

32:08 ↗ >> Yeah, not to my knowledge.

32:09 ↗ >> And the um equilibration to local law to

32:13 ↗ other local municipalities where where

32:16 ↗ do we talk about that?

32:19 ↗ >> I'm not understand the question.

32:21 ↗ >> You asked a question early about whether

32:23 ↗ we want to one of the questions is

32:26 ↗ whether we want to um have our laws be

32:31 ↗ similar to surrounding municipalities.

32:33 ↗ Did you not?

32:35 ↗ >> Yes. So did we

32:37 ↗ >> sorry?

32:39 ↗ >> Yeah, but we don't have a chart that

32:41 ↗ says what the other would if we enact

32:44 ↗ the law as written or as proposed this

32:47 ↗ evening. Does that uh put us in

32:51 ↗ equivalence to those joining

32:53 ↗ municipalities? I I'm I don't see a

32:54 ↗ chart that says here's what we're

32:56 ↗ proposing, here's what it is in

32:57 ↗ Belleview, here's what it is in Samish.

32:59 ↗ Is it because we would just be the same

33:01 ↗ as them if we if we move forward with

33:02 ↗ this

33:03 ↗ >> Go ahead.

33:03 ↗ >> ordinance.

33:06 ↗ Yeah, apologies for not including the

33:07 ↗ chart. That would have been helpful in

33:09 ↗ asking this question. If uh if you

33:11 ↗ recommend this for approval as written

33:13 ↗ with the change that um council member

33:15 ↗ Ray uh recommended around the parks

33:17 ↗ director question, then this would be

33:19 ↗ largely equivalent to Belleview and

33:20 ↗ Seamish. Belleview has a slightly

33:22 ↗ different um understanding of if class

33:25 ↗ 3es can be ridden on can be uh used on

33:28 ↗ the sidewalk if there's no alternative

33:29 ↗ bike path provided um on the roadway.

33:32 ↗ But it uh ours would largely be similar

33:34 ↗ to Seamish and Mercer Islands.

33:37 ↗ >> Okay. Thank you. That is that is the

33:39 ↗ gist of what I was uh the malformed

33:41 ↗ question that I asked. Thank you.

33:44 ↗ >> And we've there a lot of the

33:46 ↗ jurisdictions have been having this

33:48 ↗ problem um very similarly because the

33:51 ↗ bikes are getting uh they're functional

33:53 ↗ there. it's a lot easier to get to

33:54 ↗ places and like going up to the

33:56 ↗ highlands from from being downtown and

33:59 ↗ so u without being a vehicle right as

34:02 ↗ far as that carbon footprint and such.

34:04 ↗ So a lot of people are trying to use

34:07 ↗ those alternatives and everybody has the

34:08 ↗ same jurisdictional issue.

34:10 ↗ >> Got it. Thank you. All right. Do we have

34:13 ↗ other questions before we move to the

34:15 ↗ deliberative phase? All right. So with

34:18 ↗ that I will this is the second time um

34:21 ↗ that I said earlier that we have two

34:23 ↗ opportunities for public comment. This

34:25 ↗ would be the second opportunity before

34:27 ↗ we go into deliberation on this and I

34:29 ↗ see at least one member of the public

34:30 ↗ who wishes to speak to this. So uh we

34:33 ↗ will start there and then we'll see if

34:34 ↗ there's anybody else um online that

34:36 ↗ would want to speak to this. Sir, if you

34:38 ↗ want to come forward and if you want to

34:39 ↗ um uh if you choose to give us your name

34:42 ↗ that'd be great.

34:42 ↗ >> Yeah, for sure.

34:44 ↗ >> There's there's a button at the There

34:47 ↗ you go. You're you're live.

34:48 ↗ >> Fantastic. Hi, my name is Wes. Uh I

34:51 ↗ actually run the Tres Trek bicycle shop

34:53 ↗ here in Isiqua and I've been working in

34:56 ↗ bikes and selling ebikes for

35:00 ↗ 15 years, something like that so far. Um

35:03 ↗ so, uh I think the definition of e-

35:06 ↗ motorcycles is needed and fantastic. Um,

35:11 ↗ and it would be great if we had

35:15 ↗ stronger rules in the sale, advertising,

35:19 ↗ and um, how they can be used. And I

35:23 ↗ would even push for license plates

35:25 ↗ required on them for sure. Um,

35:29 ↗ ebikes class one, two, and three do a

35:32 ↗ fantastic job of assisting people get

35:36 ↗ mobile, who can't afford cars, who get

35:38 ↗ DUIs, who have lots of restrictions in

35:41 ↗ their ability to get around town, and

35:44 ↗ the free use of e motorcycles as

35:46 ↗ ebicycles has definitely put um stigmas

35:51 ↗ and restrictions on people who are

35:53 ↗ trying to use them legitly. And so

35:55 ↗ having some sort of definition would be

35:57 ↗ fantastic. Um, one of the things that I

36:00 ↗ would push for is

36:02 ↗ having talked to a very large number of

36:05 ↗ people who use ebikes, the class ones,

36:07 ↗ the twos especially, um, having a more

36:12 ↗ firm definition of where they can be

36:15 ↗ used in the parks would be fantastic.

36:18 ↗ There's a lot of confusion to that. Um,

36:20 ↗ basically if a customer comes in, hey, I

36:22 ↗ just bought this cool ebike. I want to

36:24 ↗ go travel. Um, I want to go use it in

36:26 ↗ different places. Um, basically my

36:29 ↗ answer is start calling, but really the

36:32 ↗ only way to find out if it's allowed

36:35 ↗ somewhere is to go see if there's a

36:37 ↗ sign. And ultimately in the day of being

36:40 ↗ able to travel and do all of these

36:41 ↗ different things, it gets really hard to

36:43 ↗ be able to do that. And so you're

36:45 ↗ relying on photos, Google map reviews.

36:48 ↗ There's no just clear delineation and

36:50 ↗ easy source for people to understand

36:52 ↗ where they can utilize these cool new

36:54 ↗ tools. And I have a lot of um older

36:56 ↗ folks who retire, put them on the back

36:58 ↗ of motor homes, things like that, and

37:00 ↗ want to use them in places. So, um,

37:02 ↗ better definition than just signs at a

37:05 ↗ park would be awesome to be able to help

37:08 ↗ those folks. Um, so, uh, that's

37:12 ↗ basically what I got. So if you have any

37:14 ↗ questions for me, feel free. I don't

37:15 ↗ know how this works. So

37:17 ↗ >> thank you for your comment.

37:18 ↗ >> Yeah, you're very welcome.

37:20 ↗ >> Clerk, do we have anyone online

37:22 ↗ indicating an interest in speaking to

37:23 ↗ this issue this evening?

37:25 ↗ >> No, chair, not at this time.

37:27 ↗ >> Thank you very much. All right, to

37:29 ↗ deliberation. So we have two questions

37:31 ↗ in front of us

37:36 ↗ and the proposed city uh I mean the

37:39 ↗ ordinance as written. The answer to this

37:41 ↗ first question is no. Right?

37:45 ↗ So

37:48 ↗ the question is, do we want if if if

37:51 ↗ yes, we're arguing for something other

37:53 ↗ than the bill that's in front of us.

37:54 ↗ Right.

37:58 ↗ >> I'll speak.

37:59 ↗ >> Council member Ray. Um I I think the um

38:04 ↗ I think that they should be different

38:06 ↗ because they are completely different um

38:10 ↗ infractions. It seems to me if somebody

38:13 ↗ is operating um an e motorcycle without

38:18 ↗ the appropriate um lensure um either

38:23 ↗ vehicle registration and all that that's

38:26 ↗ the same as doing um something that's

38:29 ↗ like a motorcycle with a internal

38:31 ↗ combustion engine and it that those

38:34 ↗ those should apply violations around

38:36 ↗ ebikes um I think we want to have

38:38 ↗ something that's um different because I

38:42 ↗ think ebikes are different than e-

38:44 ↗ motorcycles. Um I think the fuzzy area

38:46 ↗ is around the class 3es and I like what

38:49 ↗ uh what's been done with particularly if

38:51 ↗ someone modifies a class 3. So it's

38:53 ↗ really it's a e motorcycle with pedals

38:56 ↗ um and not really a class 3 bike

38:58 ↗ anymore. Um, I I still I mean I want to

39:02 ↗ come back at the end of this discussion

39:03 ↗ and talk about some of my concerns about

39:05 ↗ just how do we balance the desire for

39:09 ↗ ebike adoption with my overriding

39:12 ↗ concern for the safety of the riders and

39:14 ↗ the safety of pedestrians, but I want to

39:17 ↗ come back to that. So,

39:20 ↗ >> Deputy Council President,

39:23 ↗ >> yeah, I think uh I think Chris said that

39:25 ↗ very very well. Um, I will admit that

39:27 ↗ I'm not really familiar. The first ebike

39:29 ↗ I ever saw was last night when Kevin

39:33 ↗ Nichols brought his ebike in. So, uh,

39:36 ↗ and I saw what a big heavy bike it was.

39:38 ↗ So, that was a surprise. So, um, so I'm

39:42 ↗ sort of theoretical when I'm when we're

39:44 ↗ talking about this cuz I'm not really

39:45 ↗ familiar. I haven't ridden them at all.

39:48 ↗ So, but from what every everything

39:50 ↗ that's been said, I would say yes that

39:52 ↗ we want the the violations to be uh

39:55 ↗ different because they're two different

39:57 ↗ classes and and clearly uh a lot

40:00 ↗ different power involved with the with

40:03 ↗ the with them. So, yes,

40:06 ↗ thank you. Uh I I join my colleagues in

40:09 ↗ this. Um as an engineer, I know that

40:11 ↗ kinetic energy is 1/2 mv^ 2. So, uh, the

40:15 ↗ bigger the bigger the vehicle, uh, the

40:18 ↗ more energy is involved and then the

40:20 ↗ faster it goes, it actually goes to the

40:22 ↗ square of velocity. So, um, and there's

40:24 ↗ lots of studies out there that will tell

40:26 ↗ you the difference between collisions at

40:28 ↗ 20 mph and collisions at 30 mph uh, is,

40:31 ↗ you know, more than twice the energy at

40:33 ↗ 30 mph than versus at 20 mph. So, the

40:36 ↗ idea of having these be different just,

40:38 ↗ you know, follows the high school

40:40 ↗ physics that we all learned many years

40:41 ↗ ago. So yes, I'm I I join my colleagues

40:44 ↗ in this. Uh then does the committee

40:46 ↗ agree or disagree with the

40:47 ↗ administration's recommendation to

40:49 ↗ tailor the code to closely match

40:51 ↗ neighboring jurisdictions?

40:53 ↗ Deputy council president.

40:55 ↗ >> Yeah, I think in the packet um uh Chief

40:59 ↗ Schwan referred to the patchwork of

41:02 ↗ requirements that occurs if everybody's

41:04 ↗ got different ones. So I think it's

41:06 ↗ really clear that we want to be as

41:08 ↗ closely matched to our neighbor

41:09 ↗ jurisdictions as possible. Absolutely.

41:12 ↗ And do you want we answered this? I have

41:15 ↗ some additional comments, but maybe

41:17 ↗ Chris could answer this and then excuse

41:19 ↗ me, Council Member Ray can answer this

41:21 ↗ question and then we can just do general

41:23 ↗ remarks. Okay.

41:24 ↗ >> I'll be Chris soon.

41:26 ↗ >> Be Chris soon.

41:29 ↗ >> Um, no, I think I think uh uh

41:32 ↗ consistency locally is great. I think

41:36 ↗ our commenter's name escapes me and I'm

41:39 ↗ so sorry.

41:40 ↗ >> Wes.

41:40 ↗ >> Wes. What Wes said is spoton. It's not

41:43 ↗ good that we have a patchwork of

41:46 ↗ regulations. It's not fair to um the uh

41:49 ↗ the purchaser, the writers. Um it's

41:52 ↗ confusing to law enforcement. And I

41:54 ↗ think one of the things that we need to

41:56 ↗ do is um if we can align locally,

41:59 ↗ perfect. But also, I think this has got

42:01 ↗ to be a big push on our legislative

42:03 ↗ agenda. Um, I did some research on ebike

42:06 ↗ adoption and Wes would probably echo

42:08 ↗ this, but the curve is just uh going um

42:11 ↗ vertical um in terms of the sales. The

42:14 ↗ prices are coming down. Uh demand is

42:16 ↗ going off the charts. They fill a really

42:18 ↗ beautiful niche. Um but it's going to

42:20 ↗ create all sorts of problems for

42:22 ↗ everybody. So, we need to have uh a

42:25 ↗ consistent set of legislation. I love

42:27 ↗ the fact that we're ahead of the power

42:28 ↗ curve here,

42:29 ↗ >> the electric power curve in this case.

42:33 ↗ um and and getting some legislation here

42:36 ↗ is to help in Isqua, but it it's it's

42:38 ↗ completely inadequate um to deal with

42:41 ↗ the larger problem which is consistency

42:43 ↗ with our neighbors and the state as a

42:45 ↗ whole.

42:46 ↗ >> Yeah, I will echo that consistency as

42:48 ↗ well. I think in terms also you know the

42:52 ↗ reason I asked also about writers that

42:53 ↗ were 14 and 15 is you know these are

42:58 ↗ citizens who will are maybe getting

43:01 ↗ their first taste of regulatory

43:03 ↗ environments that they may not have had

43:05 ↗ to understand before this not the last

43:08 ↗ right welcome to uh uh approaching

43:11 ↗ adulthood um so I think it's I think

43:14 ↗ having consistency um simplicity um easy

43:18 ↗ to explain a easy for um parents and

43:21 ↗ businesses that cater to the market. Uh

43:24 ↗ the easier it is to explain uh the

43:26 ↗ better it's going to be for our young um

43:28 ↗ citizens and our not so young citizens

43:30 ↗ uh to be compliant with the law. So I'm

43:33 ↗ we're all a yes on that. Sounds like in

43:35 ↗ addition to these two questions, both of

43:37 ↗ you have some uh further thoughts that

43:40 ↗ you wish to add. May I

43:43 ↗ >> I I think this is I think this is a

43:45 ↗ really uh timely topic

43:47 ↗ >> and um and I kind of regret not going to

43:50 ↗ be around to to see it over the finish

43:52 ↗ line, but so I will have to get all of

43:54 ↗ my thoughts out on the table today. Um

43:57 ↗ it's a really interesting

44:00 ↗ balancing act we have to do with um

44:04 ↗ wanting to promote adoption because I

44:05 ↗ think there's a real need for this mode

44:09 ↗ of transportation. It's it's that's why

44:10 ↗ it's exploding. Um with safety and how

44:13 ↗ do we promote safety both for the rider

44:16 ↗ um but in some ways I'm even more

44:18 ↗ concerned about the walker that the

44:20 ↗ rider's going to run into. Um and so

44:25 ↗ I I think I like what we've got in place

44:28 ↗ because we can move. It's consistent. It

44:30 ↗ gives us a starting point. But I think

44:32 ↗ we really need to inform our legislative

44:34 ↗ agenda. I think there needs to be age

44:36 ↗ restrictions on class one and class 2

44:38 ↗ bikes. I was doing some research. Um, on

44:41 ↗ a bike you can get up to 90% of your

44:43 ↗ power um, from the assist. So, you can

44:46 ↗ be pedaling full tilt and that's only

44:48 ↗ 10% if you got your throttle throttle

44:50 ↗ all the way up on a class one or class 2

44:52 ↗ bike. So, there there is a lot more

44:56 ↗ power and a lot more mass than the

44:58 ↗ typical uh 10-speed bike that um I was

45:02 ↗ riding around on when I was 12, 13, 14.

45:05 ↗ And um I think we need to recognize that

45:09 ↗ um that level of of uh of power that

45:12 ↗ that that uh that speed that weight um

45:15 ↗ is something that needs to be regulated.

45:19 ↗ And

45:21 ↗ there's an awareness, a need for

45:23 ↗ awareness of what the rules of the road

45:25 ↗ are. And you know, for somebody who's um

45:29 ↗ 16, has a driver's license, they've gone

45:31 ↗ through all the training, they

45:32 ↗ understand the rules of the road. um

45:33 ↗ somebody who's 12 um hasn't done that um

45:37 ↗ doesn't understand maybe all of the

45:39 ↗ nuancing of of uh traffic safety um they

45:43 ↗ are probably illprepared to be driving

45:46 ↗ at those speeds in um in a busy

45:50 ↗ environment. So um like I said I I like

45:53 ↗ where we're going. I think we've done

45:54 ↗ great. Uh kudos to you guys. I think we

45:57 ↗ can amend the the ordinance that we saw

45:59 ↗ tonight when it comes back for council

46:02 ↗ adoption. Um I think that's fine. I kind

46:05 ↗ of understand where you're going where

46:07 ↗ we're giving you parks and community

46:08 ↗ services jurisdiction over parks and

46:10 ↗ community spaces um but not over other

46:13 ↗ uh rightways. Um,

46:16 ↗ so I think that's fine, but and then

46:18 ↗ it's really pushing towards um how do we

46:20 ↗ promote adoption, promote safety, and

46:23 ↗ really work for a statewide set of of uh

46:26 ↗ laws to make sure that we are achieving

46:29 ↗ those two um two goals.

46:35 ↗ >> Thank you, Council Member Ray. Deputy

46:36 ↗ Council President, you also had some

46:38 ↗ comments.

46:38 ↗ >> Yeah, absolutely. First of all, thanks

46:40 ↗ for putting together a really good

46:43 ↗ packet of information and a really clear

46:46 ↗ uh presentation. Um, and uh uh I uh am

46:52 ↗ part of the East Side Transportation

46:53 ↗ Partnership that met last Friday. Uh we

46:57 ↗ were adopting our legislative priorities

46:59 ↗ for 2026 and this was a robust topic of

47:03 ↗ conversation. So, um, when we say that,

47:07 ↗ um, that we're going to tailor tailor

47:09 ↗ our code to closely match neighboring

47:12 ↗ jurisdictions, I can hear a concern all

47:14 ↗ across the east side, uh, about, uh,

47:17 ↗ where the direction that we're going and

47:19 ↗ a lot of concern about safety and

47:22 ↗ especially about the safety of young

47:24 ↗ people. And thank you, uh, Council Ray

47:26 ↗ for mentioning the pedestrians that

47:28 ↗ sometimes get run into. Um, I will I

47:32 ↗ want to also say that Mayor Thompson

47:34 ↗ from both was very eloquent in talking

47:36 ↗ about ebikes, as Wes said pointed out,

47:40 ↗ are also a great solution for a lot of

47:42 ↗ people. And we don't want to demonize

47:44 ↗ them because uh they do provide a really

47:47 ↗ useful alternative for people that maybe

47:49 ↗ can't uh don't want a car or can't have

47:53 ↗ a car. And so we want to be really

47:55 ↗ careful that we're we're navigating this

47:58 ↗ very carefully. So, um I have personally

48:02 ↗ observed

48:04 ↗ I'm sure they're I'm sure they were

48:06 ↗ kids. You know, you always check your

48:07 ↗ biases, but uh personally observed

48:10 ↗ people I am sure are under the age of 16

48:12 ↗ or maybe under the age of 14 on the

48:15 ↗ highway with cars, with trucks. Uh and

48:18 ↗ it scared the heck out of me. And so I

48:21 ↗ want to be sure that we are being really

48:23 ↗ clear uh about the age requirements and

48:27 ↗ who should be on the road with uh other

48:29 ↗ vehicles. Uh I really want to commend

48:32 ↗ Chief Schwan for the direction that

48:34 ↗ they're the police are taking in terms

48:35 ↗ of education. I really appreciate the

48:38 ↗ comments that you've made about getting

48:40 ↗ an opportunity to talk to parents, to

48:42 ↗ talk to kids, to teach them about things

48:45 ↗ um as they're going through the process

48:47 ↗ of learning. Um and uh I think that is

48:52 ↗ the the best approach we could take with

48:53 ↗ our community is here's a learning

48:56 ↗ opportunity about road safety. So um I

48:59 ↗ just think uh you've done a tremendous

49:01 ↗ job and I I hope that we'll be taking

49:04 ↗ this uh I would usually say because I

49:08 ↗ don't think it's controversial. I would

49:09 ↗ usually say, "Let's put this on the

49:10 ↗ consent agenda," except it's such a high

49:14 ↗ item of interest that I bet the rest of

49:16 ↗ the council will want to discuss it,

49:18 ↗ too. So, so maybe u I would say let's

49:22 ↗ put it forward to the full council and

49:25 ↗ um we can discuss whether it goes on

49:28 ↗ consent or the regular agenda, but I

49:30 ↗ presume that the other council members

49:32 ↗ would like to take a a swack at

49:35 ↗ commenting on this as well. So, thank

49:37 ↗ you so much for a really great job.

49:40 ↗ >> I think it's also possible that more

49:42 ↗ people watch a full council meeting. As

49:44 ↗ much as as much as it grieves me to

49:46 ↗ suggest this, that it's possible that

49:48 ↗ more people watch a full council meeting

49:50 ↗ than a services, safety, and parks

49:52 ↗ committee meeting.

49:53 ↗ >> Not in my universe. I mean, not in my

49:54 ↗ household, but you know, in some

49:56 ↗ households.

49:57 ↗ >> Um, city administrator Bob Kutz, um, you

50:01 ↗ don't need any other language from us

50:02 ↗ tonight, right? these our u feedback is

50:05 ↗ what you were looking for.

50:07 ↗ >> The direction is fine. Um is there

50:09 ↗ anything else?

50:10 ↗ >> No. Um I just think that when we return

50:12 ↗ on the first we'll make that change um

50:15 ↗ regarding the the parks director and uh

50:18 ↗ change the penalties as outlined.

50:21 ↗ >> Excellent. And it will be on regular

50:23 ↗ business.

50:23 ↗ >> And regular business. All right. Thank

50:26 ↗ Thank you both for the pre for the

50:28 ↗ information this

50:29 ↗ >> Thank you. Um and council president um

50:32 ↗ Barbara de Michelle we actually have

50:34 ↗ ebikes now that are going to be

50:35 ↗ delivered here shortly. So if you want

50:36 ↗ to come over and you can't ride one but

50:38 ↗ you can see one and you can and I'm sure

50:40 ↗ Wes would allow you to come and see

50:42 ↗ yours as well. There you go. You can

50:43 ↗ ride his.

50:44 ↗ >> There you go. And so, um, I think also I

50:46 ↗ want to say thank you for acknowledging

50:48 ↗ because the boundaries in the

50:49 ↗ jurisdictional thing is, uh, a big deal

50:52 ↗ because a lot of people when you're

50:53 ↗ writing, you're not paying attention to

50:54 ↗ the boundaries. And if you went from one

50:56 ↗ city to the next and then you get

50:57 ↗ contacted by Isqua PD versus Belleview

50:59 ↗ or someone else, you don't know where

51:01 ↗ you're at and oh, it was legal in that

51:02 ↗ jurisdiction. Oh, but now it's not

51:04 ↗ there. That can be problematic. And so,

51:06 ↗ I think specifically in putting some of

51:08 ↗ those on, it's a big deal. Uh, also I

51:12 ↗ think it's amazing that I've seen even

51:14 ↗ now clips that, you know, you see you've

51:17 ↗ seen 14, 15 year olds or you think

51:19 ↗ someone that's younger. Well, I've seen

51:21 ↗ videos now to where parents on their

51:23 ↗ phones and Wes might be able to speak to

51:25 ↗ this where they actually can put the

51:27 ↗ power or acknowledgement on their phone

51:29 ↗ on how fast their child writing next to

51:32 ↗ them. And there's ones as small as four

51:33 ↗ and three that are on these with their

51:36 ↗ which which is cool because, you know,

51:37 ↗ they're starting young and I get it. But

51:39 ↗ at the same time, they're able to put

51:42 ↗ limitations on the speeds and um some of

51:45 ↗ those boundaries. So, we're venturing

51:48 ↗ there's going to be those anomalies and

51:49 ↗ different things. So, the education

51:50 ↗ piece is also so big that they need to

51:54 ↗ know even now on a regular bicycle cuz

51:56 ↗ let's say someone's coming down the

51:57 ↗ Highlands Hill, those speeds that they

51:59 ↗ came, if they got into a crash or ran

52:01 ↗ into somebody that's a pedestrian going

52:02 ↗ up and down the Highlands is the same as

52:05 ↗ if they were on a motorcycle or on the

52:06 ↗ road, they are still subject to that.

52:08 ↗ whether it's a pedal bike or it's not.

52:10 ↗ And so that education piece may be

52:12 ↗ greater even than we understand because

52:15 ↗ even if they have an ebike or an e-

52:17 ↗ motorcycle, it's still the same if

52:18 ↗ they're on a regular bicycle and they're

52:20 ↗ on something as get that velocity going

52:22 ↗ as you spoke about from even just being

52:24 ↗ on a regular bike. So I think there's a

52:27 ↗ lot of things that we can do with this

52:29 ↗ um education wise, not even just with

52:31 ↗ these ebikes. And so I think that's an

52:32 ↗ exciting piece. Um and then we can also

52:35 ↗ help and work with our partners in the

52:37 ↗ community So, thank you very much.

52:40 ↗ >> Thank you, Chief. Uh, that concludes

52:43 ↗ agenda item COOM0182.

52:45 ↗ Uh, before we adjourn, uh, I just I want

52:49 ↗ to take a couple minutes or a minute or

52:51 ↗ a minute or two, uh, to just share, uh,

52:53 ↗ a couple of remembrances about Council

52:55 ↗ Member Ray. Uh the first is that um most

53:00 ↗ people will not remember, but council

53:01 ↗ member Ray, I'm sure, remembers that uh

53:04 ↗ early on in his tenure, I actually point

53:07 ↗ of ordered him in a meeting. Um he was

53:10 ↗ referring to a previous measure that was

53:12 ↗ before the council. Um and I point of

53:15 ↗ ordered him because you can't do that.

53:17 ↗ You can't re uh you can't re uh argue uh

53:21 ↗ settled settled business. And he was so

53:23 ↗ gracious about it. And I and he said,

53:26 ↗ "Yeah, yeah, you're right. I I can't do

53:27 ↗ that." And I just thought, "Wow, that is

53:30 ↗ really great. I'm gonna I'm gonna take

53:32 ↗ that as an aside and I'm gonna store

53:33 ↗ that away and I'm going to save that for

53:35 ↗ a moment where he does something and I'm

53:38 ↗ going to be gracious about it." And I

53:39 ↗ never had to use that jet because you

53:42 ↗ have always been such a professional and

53:44 ↗ such a great person. Usually we sat next

53:47 ↗ to each other uh through the many years

53:49 ↗ on council and and I will miss that. And

53:51 ↗ the second thing I will mention is that

53:52 ↗ many times things get decided at uh off

53:56 ↗ sites and not necessarily on this

53:58 ↗ podium. And council member Ray has been

54:00 ↗ a stalwart ally on the subject of

54:03 ↗ council committees. And this body, this

54:06 ↗ services and safety and parks committee

54:08 ↗ I consider really really important and

54:10 ↗ it exists partially because council

54:12 ↗ member Ray um was was such a strong

54:15 ↗ proponent of it when the when the

54:16 ↗ subject came up. So thank you. Thank

54:18 ↗ you. Uh, and I will miss your wisdom up

54:21 ↗ here on the day.

54:24 ↗ >> Deputy Council President gets the last

54:26 ↗ word.

54:27 ↗ >> Oh boy. So, uh, and and I just want to

54:31 ↗ acknowledge that Mayor Paulie is back

54:32 ↗ with us and, uh, so I'm glad you could

54:35 ↗ be here to hear the remarks. Uh, I want

54:38 ↗ to say that I agreed with everything

54:40 ↗ that she said about your financial

54:42 ↗ wisdom and yes, I have relied on it

54:45 ↗ often. Uh, but you know what? But I'm

54:48 ↗ going to miss Chris is a very kind

54:50 ↗ person, a really kind person. And he's a

54:53 ↗ very funny person. And he's really good

54:56 ↗ at telling dad jokes.

54:58 ↗ And none of us laugh, but we own

55:02 ↗ >> but we find music somewhat. Yes. And so,

55:06 ↗ uh, not only are we going to miss your

55:08 ↗ financial wisdom, but I'm going to miss

55:11 ↗ all the jokes and all the laughs that

55:13 ↗ we've had. And, um, yes. and your just

55:17 ↗ your endearing kindness and gentleness

55:20 ↗ and uh wisdom toward people. It's been

55:24 ↗ an absolute joy to serve with you and uh

55:27 ↗ and as Mayor Paulie said, you will will

55:29 ↗ will be missed very much. So, thank you

55:33 ↗ for your service to the city of Isiqua.

55:36 ↗ >> Would you like the last word?

55:38 ↗ >> No,

55:39 ↗ >> that's a no. And

55:40 ↗ >> that is in fact the last word.

55:42 ↗ >> He did. No, that was that that was the

55:44 ↗ last word. Uh all right. Thank you. Uh

55:47 ↗ and with that it is 7:13 and we are

55:49 ↗ adjourned.

55:50 ↗ >> Oh 2 minutes. Oh no. But we are

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