Welcome everyone. I, Council Member
Marks, call the November 18th, 2025 City
Council Services, Safety, and Parts
Committee meeting to order. Before we
get to our meeting agenda, we have an an
item of special business. It is Council
Member Ray's last city council meeting
tonight. So, I'd like to invite Mayor
Polly to the lect turn to recognize
council member Ray.
>> And I would like you um chair to maybe
extend the five minute. I'm just
kidding. I don't want to freak about. I
know this is hard for council member
Ray, but thank you very much for the
opportunity tonight. Um there are a
couple of council members and myself
that are retiring this year and to get
an opportunity even just to speak
quietly at a committee meeting about the
work that the volunteers in our
community who step up for public service
do is a real treat for me. So Chris,
buckle up. Here we go. Um, I met Chris
about 9 to 10 years ago when he made his
first run for city council and uh,
persistent like I was. I did not make it
the first two times I tried. Uh, Chris
tried again and has served this
community from 2018 to 2025. But not
just as a council member. I can go
through there are multiple committees
that he chaired. He's a board member of
Eastside Fire and Rescue. He stepped up
during any kind of financial
conversation we had, including the ad
hoc long-term finance committee, which
um did fantastic work, by the way. Thank
you, council member Ray. But he also
stepped out in the region and he was
part of King County's growth management
planning council. He has also stepped up
for our council rules ad hoc committee,
which may sound kind of boring, but it's
actually kind of the rules procedure.
It's the way we get along with each
other in order to do this policy work
and decision-m.
Um he's on two different committees, the
planning development environment
council committee and the mobility and
infrastructure committee. So that's the
laundry list. But now I get to talk
about Chris. One thing I knew when I
came in to government work was that I
had some experience in a couple of
areas. I knew parks and wreck and I knew
public works. I did not know finance.
And I really appreciated all the council
members that I got to serve with over
the years who put the their favorite
topic was government finance, which
sounds very dry and very boring.
However, the number one duty we have as
a council and a mayor to this community
is to make sure that there we're always
here to deliver those essential services
of clean drinking water, sewer, waste
pickup, roads that you can drive on,
parks that you can play in. And you do
that by being a financial financially
engaged council member and making sure
that we are always thinking about what
it looks like down the road for years
and years to come and assessing our
financial health all the way along. It
is truly the number one duty of what we
do. We want to be here next month, next
year, and 10 years from now to provide
these services. And the only way we're
going to do it is if we're sure that
we're running a financially sustainable
um uh city government. So Chris, I just
have to tell you that I know everybody's
joking around that maybe you're a little
grumpy. I have never found you grumpy. I
have found you mildly annoyed when we're
not paying enough attention to the
fiscal concerns that you have. I think
you've done a really good job explaining
why certain things are important,
encouraging the council to really dig
deep on certain issues because I like
you, I want this city to thrive and
survive for decades and generations to
come. And so you brought a real real um
strong financial responsibility ethic
with you and you carried it through your
entire eight years of service. And for
that reason, we're not in a bad place.
We're in good shape. But you also had us
focus on the challenges ahead, which I
think is key to making sure that we're
still here decades and decades from now.
So, as a friend, a colleague, and a
council member, I need to tell you, you
will be missed. that it's hard for us uh
to know that tonight is your last public
meeting and that we will not have your
wise counsel going forward, but you're
here in our community and anything we
can do to celebrate you. Anything we can
do to welcome you into the fold in any
volunteer activity, you have the number
one spot, guy. You are it. You are
amazing person to work with and we are
so lucky as a community that we got to
have you for eight years. So, thank you.
And can I present you a plaque on behalf
of the city that I hope adorns your
lovely office up in Talis and just let
you know
you will be so sorely missed.
>> He's a good hugger. Just saying. Just
saying. Would you like to address your
committee members?
>> He does not want to talk. Um,
have you ever known a really an elected
not to be able to uh step up to a mic
and talk? So, it's it's a uh um I I
wasn't expecting to do this. So, I am
literally without without preparation.
But I was thinking on the drive over
here, what a uh amazing 8-year journey
this has been and some of the amazing
people that I have had the opportunity
to serve with both on the council um at
the administration um
at at King County through SCA um at East
Side Fire and Rescue. So, I'm just doing
the litany that the mayor just did. Um,
but the thing that I was really thinking
about was eight years ago take the first
time I stepped up those steps right over
there up into the DAS and like what a
weird feeling that was and then tonight
uh as I skipped up them um just how
familiar and comfortable and uh
different it feels uh 8 years later and
it feels um quite odd to be standing
here at the podium and not not up there
with you all. So with that I will uh I
will end my my brief remarks. Thank you.
Thank you for that, Madame Mayor. We
appreciate it.
>> And now we will move on to our agenda
items. And the first item of business is
public comment. Uh there are multiple
public comment opportunities at
tonight's meeting. There's a general
public comment opportunity at the
beginning of the meeting or you can make
comments after the presentation and
council question and answer period on
tonight's single agenda item. Uh members
of the public may address council at
this time in person or virtually. Those
who are signed up in advance to make
comments will be called on first. If you
are joining us virtually and would like
to make comments, please raise your
virtual hand. If you're on the phone,
press star three. If you have joined by
computer or smartphone, look for a hand
icon. This varies by device. One option
may be to go to the participant panel
and choose the raise hand icon in the
lower right hand corner. If you're in
the room and did not sign up, I will ask
for other speakers before closing this
portion of the meeting. We'll wait for a
moment to see if anyone raises their
hand virtually or physically.
Clerk, has anyone signed up to speak or
indicated a desire to speak this
evening?
>> No, chair, not at this time.
>> Thank you. As a reminder, written
comments can be submitted at any time to
city council isawwa.gov.
Uh, next up, we have our approval of
minutes. And what I would like to do is
see if there is any uh concerns or if we
can just uh view the minutes uh as
before
>> no please no objection to approval of
the minutes. With that we will then move
to our one item of regular business uh
this evening which is COOM0182
e motorcycle and ebicycle ordinance and
that's going to be presented by Chief
Schwan from the IPD. Welcome Chief
Schwan.
Good evening.
It's an honor and privilege to be the
last event that you're going to hear
within the city as far as business goes.
Am I moving the slides?
Okay. All right.
Can I just
because it's not moving.
>> Okay. Sorry.
>> So, we're returning with two related
ordinances.
The first is proposed new code section
defining in regulations use of e-
motorcycles and ebikes as discussed in
the September meeting. The second cleans
up the existing empoundment
um chapter and modernize to modernize it
and for impounding of e- motorcycles and
allowing for officers to use discretion
and allow e- motorcycles and ebikes to
be picked up same day as at the police
station as an option.
We have two places where we need
direction. the penalty section and the
overall approach of aligning ISQUA's
code language to match those of
surrounding jurisdictions.
At their previous committee direction on
September 30th at service of safety and
parks meeting, the administration
provided an overview of these issues in
Isiqua and the committee was in support
of the administration's recommendations
to develop a local ordinance with
definitions,
usage, and penalties to support state
action on defining and regulating e-
motorcycles and education for parents
and minors. The committee also strongly
supported means to ensure officers have
the tools they need. The ordinance
proposed today are one of the tools that
will help enforcement and education by
IPD.
So the goals of the new ordinance, these
are the goals the administration used to
craft the ordinances. These are based on
the committee feedback and IPD and parks
needs. Number one, ensure officers have
tools needed to make stops, education,
and issue infractions. Number two,
consistency and clarity on where ebikes
and e- motorcycles can be operated. And
number three, tailor penalties. Tailor
penalties to become educate guardians
and the riders.
So proposed definitions.
The first um ordinance creating a new
section of code for e- motorcycles and
ebikes has the following definitions.
And the e- motorcycle definition is
likely the most important and nuanced as
the other terms are defined in the RCW.
We propose that an e- motorcycle is a
motorcycle powered in full or in part by
electricity and that does not have
operable foot pedals or exceeds 750
watts or the motor continues to assist
even when it exceeds 28 mph.
The definition is written this way to
ensure it and it captures the e- dirt
bikes and ebikes that are modified
beyond the capabilities listed in the
RCW.
So some of the proposed requirements for
the operations
the proposed ordinance has numerous
requirements to the operation of e-
motorcycles drawn from the RCW. The
issues we most commonly see are noted on
the slide. Minors under the age of 16
and operating without registration,
without license plates, without lensure
or motorcycle endorsements.
Ebikes are subject to less regulation
because we don't want to widely
discourage but other portions of the
code and RCW have provisions for safety
including requirements for helmets that
you must be 16 or older for class 3
bikes which are the ones capable for
going faster and motor assistance.
So the chart here talks about where the
operation is allowed based on the
different types of the bikes themselves.
Number one, to be street legal,
motorcycles need to meet requirements in
the RCW. Number two, class 3 ebikes can
only be on sidewalks when there is
alternative bike path or where there is
no an alter not an alternative bike
path. And the parks director can
prohibit ebike use on city parks, trails
or city park trails, city parks, and
plazas and will post signs noting that
prohibition in those specific areas
assuming a rider meets all the
>> I'm sorry, Chief. I I think council
member Ray has a question.
>> Oh, go ahead.
>> Um uh uh thanks, Chief. This is great.
I'm I there's a an inconsistency between
this chart and the ordinance as written
because the ordinance has the um parks
and community services director has
authority over street sidewalks and
pedestrian paths and shared use paths as
well as parks and city
city uh city parks and park trails.
>> Go ahead.
>> Uh Jillian Shaw, management analyst.
Thank you for pointing that out. That
should just say that the park park parks
director um has authority over the items
in the city parks, those plazas, um park
trails and those things, not the streets
and sidewalks.
>> So the the ordinance has that we we're
looking at is needs to be amended.
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
>> Sorry, I didn't realize that
inconsistency till you pointed it out.
>> Okay. Okay. We'll talk about that.
Thank you, Miss Tub.
>> So, Chief, can I ask a question about
this? So, if you're a 14year-old or a
15y old, you can only use the class one
and class 2. Is that correct? You can't
use the class 3.
>> Correct.
>> So, if you're a 14 or a 15y old, you can
go anywhere on your class one or class 2
ebike essentially. But not anywhere, but
any of the listed uh areas in in in
this, right? Correct. Unless it's
otherwise noted by the parks director
for like if there's a specific park or
trailway that they're saying they don't
want that on for worry of damage and so
forth, then it would be prohibited in
those, but it must be posted as such.
>> Got it. But if you're older and you're
using a class 3 or an e- motorcycle,
then it is more complicated because you
are on a more uh powerful
and larger and faster vehicle. That's
and and this is um this is if we enact
this these this chart will be in effect.
>> That is correct.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> Again, council member,
>> I'm sorry. Um so you brought up the 14
15. I didn't see a lower age restriction
on class one and two. Is did I just miss
that?
>> No, it's just you have to be over 16 to
do the class three. Yeah.
>> It's not specifically 14 and 15. It just
>> So there's no age restriction on class
one and class two
>> to my understanding. No, not with an
ordinance the way it
>> set. Great.
>> I was just trying to understand if if I
were a 14 or a 15.
>> Yeah. Or a 12 or
>> 12 or 10. Yeah. But you understand my
point. I just want to understand for for
residents that are too young to have
their driver's license, right? What is
the what is the regulatory landscape and
I I just wanted to understand.
>> No, no, that's great. I just I have
concern about that, too.
Okay.
>> Please continue.
As you can see, e- motorcycles are
allowed only on the street, while class
one and two bikes are allowed most
places, similar to regular pedal bikes.
Class 3 ebikes are allowed on streets
and the sidewalk if no alternative path
is provided, but cannot be on pedestrian
paths, shared use paths, park trails,
and city parks. These recommendations
are developed by looking at where King
County parks allow different classes of
ebikes as well as other cities.
An item that came up at the September
meeting is speed, particularly for off-
streetet use. This will be a topic of
discussion next year for park staff and
the parks board as they develop a
dedicated parks portion of the code
itself.
The proposed empalment and penalty
options.
So number one, empoundment future
exploration of impounding ebikes at the
station code revision to 1034 would
allow motorcycles and ebikes to be
picked up at the station but not stored.
So number two, tiered violation
penalties for operator or guardian of
operator. First offense would be $250.
Second would be 500. Third would
subsequent offenses 750.
The proposed ordinances address
empoundment and penalties. The second
ordinance proposed would allow ebikes
and e- motorcycles to be picked up at
the police station likely the same day
as the stop, but that is subject to IPD
policy. Of course, this
>> I'm sorry, Chief. Can can I'm still a
little confused.
>> So, what does it mean? They can be
picked up at the station, but not
stored. So,
>> so what we're saying is that for
example, um for a juvenile for example
that cannot uh we can't allow to ride
the bike further, um they can go home,
get their parent, and they would likely
be able to come and pick it up at the
station. Um they would have to be picked
out within a certain mar period of time.
Um we would notify that individual that
if you can get your parent here by 9:00
p.m. or whatever that looks like, um
it's not going to be stored there
indefinitely. We don't have the room or
capacity at city hall as you can imagine
with um circumstances in space as it is.
We're not going to have the capacity to
store them for extended periods. So, it
would be something that maybe an officer
made the phone call while they were at
the stop, got a was able to get a hold
of a parent saying this is what's
happening. We'll have it at the station.
We'll be able to come get it. Or we
would have the option to have someone
come in and pound it. That would be of
like a impound company or a tow truck
cuz that had they have the option to
store it which we do not.
>> I see. Okay. I was just thinking in
terms of if you had a kid whose parent
was working or something and they're you
know and if they can't be there
I I mean you know if they're working all
day
>> that would be the that's the other
option too. We would that's why we'd try
and make a phone call to say this is
what's happening. Would you possibly be
able to come and get it? the officer
would be able to hopefully make that
discernment and say whether or not we
would be taking it to the station or we
would call an impound service to have
them take it and they would store it
there.
>> Got it. Okay. Thank you.
>> The counts for a scenario where example
um an IP officer makes a stop where they
cannot allow the minor to ride the ebike
home after the stop but the guardian can
come pick it up that day. This can be a
useful education tool and another
opportunity to communicate with
guardians rather than impounding it
straight to a toll lot where there's so
many fees that are incurred for that and
where the contact between the officer
and the guardian at that point. Um the
change to IMC 1034 allows officers the
flexibility to have the e- motorcycle
ebike to be picked up at the station but
does not mandate this um approach to be
used necessarily.
Um, additionally, new ordinance proposes
tiered penalties for violations of the
section. As written, those penalties are
the same for ebikes and e- motorcycles.
For example, if a 15-year-old was
stopped for riding a class 3 bike, they
could be assessed the same penalty for
under code as a 15-year-old stopped for
riding an e- motorcycle. E- motorcycle
infractions do have the option to refer
with criminal charges, but the penalties
are otherwise similar. This is an area
where we would like the committee's
feedback to understand if keeping the
penalties the same are appropriate given
that most penalties will likely be given
to e- motorcycle users or if the penalty
should be different given the additional
safety issues and or with the
motorcycles.
So, timing and next steps.
The city council approved a uh a
legislative policy manual that directs
the administration to support changes to
the state level around these issues. We
will also continue to monitor this issue
and develop outreach and education. We
are proposing that the ordinances are
adopted on December 1 of 25. Um the
timing and next steps would be support
changes to the state law to aid in law
enforcement, continue to monitor ebike
and e- motorcycle trends in Isiqua. both
ordinance proposed for adoption in
December of 25 and education efforts.
So the direction needed specifically
is should the penalties for ebike or e-
motorcycle violations of the proposed
chapter be the same or different? Does
the committee agree or disagree with the
administration's recommendation to
tailor the code to closely match
neighbor neighboring jurisdictions? With
that, we we um first we would excuse me,
first should the penalties for ebikes or
motorcycles be the same as mentioned? Um
recalling the chapter earlier for
15-year-olds who could be given the same
monetary penalty for riding a class 3
bike or an e motorcycle. And second,
does the committee agree with the
recommendation as it's been proposed um
to closely match neighboring
jurisdictions?
So, do we have any further questions?
Uh,
>> yes, Deputy Council President.
>> Sorry,
>> just a a couple of questions. Um, I
noticed that you contacted Belleview and
Sebamish and King County Parks. Uh, is
has King County itself taken any
position on ebikes or e- motorcycles? Um
uh in other words, are we consistent
with the King County Sheriff's or um are
they still have they still not adopted
anything?
>> Um Jillian,
>> we didn't contact King County Sheriff's
in part because of the the roadways
we're considering where ebikes and
motorcycles are most commonly used being
subject to local jurisdiction. Um, we
looked at parks because of the kind of
interconnected nature of uh, Isiqua
Parks and King County park systems here.
Um, however, this is closely aligned to
RCW, which is what the King County
Sheriff's would be enforcing as well.
>> Okay, thanks. Uh, and then, um, there a
parent that chooses to or or maybe has
to say, uh, I can't come and get that
bike now. Um, can you take it to be
impounded? So, there would be definitely
an additional charge besides the fine.
>> Yes.
>> Right. So, it could be uh so 250, let's
just say first offense, 250 plus 150 or
so for what do you think it would kind
of pencil out to for the total cost uh
if they can't pick up the bicycle right
away?
>> Impound fees for an impound company um
that's specific to each impound company.
It's where they come from. they have to
bring a typically a flatbed versus a tow
truck. So that's often different.
There's storage fees that go in with
that if they can't pick it up with
certain number of days, no different
than it would be for a vehicle.
>> Um and so if there was a timely manner
that what they could come get it and
they could guarantee it could be that we
could store it maybe till the next day
when a property evidence person's there
or when the parent it was a Saturday.
>> Um but it would definitely be where it
couldn't be an indefinite process,
right? and we would it need it to be
timely. It's also going to be relevant
to how we get it to the police
department. So, if we have no ability to
get it to the police department, that's
going to be another reason if they're
not able to come get it that it would
also be impounded. But the officer would
have that discretion cuz some of the
bikes will fit in the back of our cars
and some of them won't.
>> Um, we do have options because we do
have our own bikes that we have and we
have to be able to transport them
sometimes. So we do have means um but
not for multiple cars or bikes on a
regular basis and again definitely not
the room for the storage. So uh
communication with the parents or the
owners I should say cuz sometimes it
maybe it's their friend's bike that they
were riding or the neighbor.
>> So we want to make sure that they have
that opportunity and we're able to
communicate with them.
>> Okay, great. Um and so this is uh just
um asking how the enforcement would go.
If the if the bike and the motorcycle
requirements are the same or regulations
are the same, does that make it easier
for you to enforce? Uh or is is it is it
a matter of fairness to the individuals?
Uh why are you why are you proposing
that there would be a differential
between motorcycles and bikes? I guess
>> uh well the motorcycles go faster.
There's a lot more ability for danger um
and injury to pedestrians or the people
that are around. There's the concern and
worry for ebikes specifically because of
the power and the wattage that they have
that someone like I said can be hurt and
we require for a motorcycle or an ebike
um or certain wattage that they have to
have certain um endorsements for example
like for a motorcycle you have to have
an endorsement to be able to be legally
driving that. um that also go along with
those helmet laws and such. So those
things are one and we want to be very
equal with that but that's the reason
for the um noting of the differences of
them um and how we require them to have
a license for ones and not for the
other.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> So do we have any other questions before
we move to the deliberative council
member Ray?
>> I do. So, um, thanks for, um, for all of
this because I think it's really
interesting. So, going to the state, um,
state code. So, RCW46-.04.169,
that's really just a definition of of
class 2 and 3 um, ebikes, right? And
nothing more than just these are the
parameters and characteristics of them.
So, does state law at all speak to
anything other than a classification
system? Are there any controls, any
regulations, any any anything? Or are we
we kind of on our own when it comes to
regulation or is this something we want
to push heavy into the legislative
agenda?
>> Oh, I can answer part of that and then
I'll let you. Um I know on the class 3
and then we talked about the uh
motorcycles as well. Um there is a
certain portion that becomes where the
endorsements are required. That is a big
stipulation within the RCW and the law
for what that enforcement and becomes
criminal. And so this is also a a the
education piece that was mentioned on
September 30th is that we wanted to do a
little bit more educating versus it
being criminal and to help those
individuals. We had some individuals
that stopped even as as officers um
during salmon days was great. Having a
conversation um some people walking by
thought they were in trouble but they
were just asking questions and I thought
that was great and huge of them to to do
so and getting some of that
clarification and wanting to know the
circumstances. they walked up pushing
their bikes um for the moment and it it
was great to have that but that's kind
of the intent as well that's not in the
RCW itself. I'll let Jillian also speak
to that.
>> Yeah. So the RCW really does clearly lay
out the the differences in types of
ebikes in a way that we don't see in
motorcycles. So that's why we've really
focused a lot of our effort here on
better defining e- motorcycles because
we don't have that same definition in
state code. Um, we aren't proposing any
changes to how the state has regulated
or classified ebikes, including where
they can be used and who can use them.
That all mirrors what's in RCW right
now.
>> Yeah. But it seems to me that the RCW
doesn't speak to it at all. It leaves it
actually undefined. It just says this is
what they are, but there's no you can
there's no cans and can'tss and wills
and won'ts and dos and don'ts. There is
another section of RCW, I can find it
and perhaps send it after that does
state where class 3es can be used,
including that differential on when they
can be used on the sidewalk versus not.
That comes from RCW.
>> Okay, great. Thanks. Um, no, and I think
that this is more of a comment than a
question, but I'm I'm I'm sliding it in
here anyway. And I think, you know,
separating out the motorcycles, that's
clearly a different beast. Um I think
the interesting thing is that class one,
two, and three ebikes. Um have you
ridden an ebike? Because they're heavy.
>> Yeah.
>> And um and so that that's why I thought
the question about age was interesting.
And but there is no instate statute any
kind of uh uh age restrictions or
certification restrictions or anything
like that around ebikes at all.
To my knowledge, I know the certain
RCWs, but does require based on the
wattage and how which ones need to be
licensed to be on a road. Um, it does
make a difference on whether or not you
have to have a license and there are is
RCW around that specifically. Um, so
that I I can say is uh because you do
have to have a license for class 3 and
above and so that is specific in those
other RCWs.
>> Okay, great. Thank you so much.
>> Yes. So just to follow up on that, so
the tiered violation penalties is that
that's not in state law. That would just
be us.
>> That's just fines that are just for us
monetary as far as because the others
become a civil infraction to where then
or so or it's criminal because you're
writing something without a license. So
then it also becomes to where license
could get suspended before you even have
one if you're underage, which we're
we're preferring. And this would be a
deterrent to or an alternative to that
being specific and giving them an actual
appearance before a judge. Um they can
go before a hearing, but it's not
intended necessarily to go be um
punitive in that fashion that can affect
their driver's license, so to speak.
>> Got it. But if you to the earlier
question about uninccorporated King
County following state law, like there
isn't a there isn't a tiered violation
penalty in, you know, unincorporated
King County. This would be
>> not to my knowledge.
>> Yeah, not to my knowledge.
>> And the um equilibration to local law to
other local municipalities where where
do we talk about that?
>> I'm not understand the question.
>> You asked a question early about whether
we want to one of the questions is
whether we want to um have our laws be
similar to surrounding municipalities.
Did you not?
>> Yes. So did we
>> sorry?
>> Yeah, but we don't have a chart that
says what the other would if we enact
the law as written or as proposed this
evening. Does that uh put us in
equivalence to those joining
municipalities? I I'm I don't see a
chart that says here's what we're
proposing, here's what it is in
Belleview, here's what it is in Samish.
Is it because we would just be the same
as them if we if we move forward with
this
>> Go ahead.
>> ordinance.
Yeah, apologies for not including the
chart. That would have been helpful in
asking this question. If uh if you
recommend this for approval as written
with the change that um council member
Ray uh recommended around the parks
director question, then this would be
largely equivalent to Belleview and
Seamish. Belleview has a slightly
different um understanding of if class
3es can be ridden on can be uh used on
the sidewalk if there's no alternative
bike path provided um on the roadway.
But it uh ours would largely be similar
to Seamish and Mercer Islands.
>> Okay. Thank you. That is that is the
gist of what I was uh the malformed
question that I asked. Thank you.
>> And we've there a lot of the
jurisdictions have been having this
problem um very similarly because the
bikes are getting uh they're functional
there. it's a lot easier to get to
places and like going up to the
highlands from from being downtown and
so u without being a vehicle right as
far as that carbon footprint and such.
So a lot of people are trying to use
those alternatives and everybody has the
same jurisdictional issue.
>> Got it. Thank you. All right. Do we have
other questions before we move to the
deliberative phase? All right. So with
that I will this is the second time um
that I said earlier that we have two
opportunities for public comment. This
would be the second opportunity before
we go into deliberation on this and I
see at least one member of the public
who wishes to speak to this. So uh we
will start there and then we'll see if
there's anybody else um online that
would want to speak to this. Sir, if you
want to come forward and if you want to
um uh if you choose to give us your name
that'd be great.
>> Yeah, for sure.
>> There's there's a button at the There
you go. You're you're live.
>> Fantastic. Hi, my name is Wes. Uh I
actually run the Tres Trek bicycle shop
here in Isiqua and I've been working in
bikes and selling ebikes for
15 years, something like that so far. Um
so, uh I think the definition of e-
motorcycles is needed and fantastic. Um,
and it would be great if we had
stronger rules in the sale, advertising,
and um, how they can be used. And I
would even push for license plates
required on them for sure. Um,
ebikes class one, two, and three do a
fantastic job of assisting people get
mobile, who can't afford cars, who get
DUIs, who have lots of restrictions in
their ability to get around town, and
the free use of e motorcycles as
ebicycles has definitely put um stigmas
and restrictions on people who are
trying to use them legitly. And so
having some sort of definition would be
fantastic. Um, one of the things that I
would push for is
having talked to a very large number of
people who use ebikes, the class ones,
the twos especially, um, having a more
firm definition of where they can be
used in the parks would be fantastic.
There's a lot of confusion to that. Um,
basically if a customer comes in, hey, I
just bought this cool ebike. I want to
go travel. Um, I want to go use it in
different places. Um, basically my
answer is start calling, but really the
only way to find out if it's allowed
somewhere is to go see if there's a
sign. And ultimately in the day of being
able to travel and do all of these
different things, it gets really hard to
be able to do that. And so you're
relying on photos, Google map reviews.
There's no just clear delineation and
easy source for people to understand
where they can utilize these cool new
tools. And I have a lot of um older
folks who retire, put them on the back
of motor homes, things like that, and
want to use them in places. So, um,
better definition than just signs at a
park would be awesome to be able to help
those folks. Um, so, uh, that's
basically what I got. So if you have any
questions for me, feel free. I don't
know how this works. So
>> thank you for your comment.
>> Yeah, you're very welcome.
>> Clerk, do we have anyone online
indicating an interest in speaking to
this issue this evening?
>> No, chair, not at this time.
>> Thank you very much. All right, to
deliberation. So we have two questions
in front of us
and the proposed city uh I mean the
ordinance as written. The answer to this
first question is no. Right?
So
the question is, do we want if if if
yes, we're arguing for something other
than the bill that's in front of us.
Right.
>> I'll speak.
>> Council member Ray. Um I I think the um
I think that they should be different
because they are completely different um
infractions. It seems to me if somebody
is operating um an e motorcycle without
the appropriate um lensure um either
vehicle registration and all that that's
the same as doing um something that's
like a motorcycle with a internal
combustion engine and it that those
those should apply violations around
ebikes um I think we want to have
something that's um different because I
think ebikes are different than e-
motorcycles. Um I think the fuzzy area
is around the class 3es and I like what
uh what's been done with particularly if
someone modifies a class 3. So it's
really it's a e motorcycle with pedals
um and not really a class 3 bike
anymore. Um, I I still I mean I want to
come back at the end of this discussion
and talk about some of my concerns about
just how do we balance the desire for
ebike adoption with my overriding
concern for the safety of the riders and
the safety of pedestrians, but I want to
come back to that. So,
>> Deputy Council President,
>> yeah, I think uh I think Chris said that
very very well. Um, I will admit that
I'm not really familiar. The first ebike
I ever saw was last night when Kevin
Nichols brought his ebike in. So, uh,
and I saw what a big heavy bike it was.
So, that was a surprise. So, um, so I'm
sort of theoretical when I'm when we're
talking about this cuz I'm not really
familiar. I haven't ridden them at all.
So, but from what every everything
that's been said, I would say yes that
we want the the violations to be uh
different because they're two different
classes and and clearly uh a lot
different power involved with the with
the with them. So, yes,
thank you. Uh I I join my colleagues in
this. Um as an engineer, I know that
kinetic energy is 1/2 mv^ 2. So, uh, the
bigger the bigger the vehicle, uh, the
more energy is involved and then the
faster it goes, it actually goes to the
square of velocity. So, um, and there's
lots of studies out there that will tell
you the difference between collisions at
20 mph and collisions at 30 mph uh, is,
you know, more than twice the energy at
30 mph than versus at 20 mph. So, the
idea of having these be different just,
you know, follows the high school
physics that we all learned many years
ago. So yes, I'm I I join my colleagues
in this. Uh then does the committee
agree or disagree with the
administration's recommendation to
tailor the code to closely match
neighboring jurisdictions?
Deputy council president.
>> Yeah, I think in the packet um uh Chief
Schwan referred to the patchwork of
requirements that occurs if everybody's
got different ones. So I think it's
really clear that we want to be as
closely matched to our neighbor
jurisdictions as possible. Absolutely.
And do you want we answered this? I have
some additional comments, but maybe
Chris could answer this and then excuse
me, Council Member Ray can answer this
question and then we can just do general
remarks. Okay.
>> I'll be Chris soon.
>> Be Chris soon.
>> Um, no, I think I think uh uh
consistency locally is great. I think
our commenter's name escapes me and I'm
so sorry.
>> Wes.
>> Wes. What Wes said is spoton. It's not
good that we have a patchwork of
regulations. It's not fair to um the uh
the purchaser, the writers. Um it's
confusing to law enforcement. And I
think one of the things that we need to
do is um if we can align locally,
perfect. But also, I think this has got
to be a big push on our legislative
agenda. Um, I did some research on ebike
adoption and Wes would probably echo
this, but the curve is just uh going um
vertical um in terms of the sales. The
prices are coming down. Uh demand is
going off the charts. They fill a really
beautiful niche. Um but it's going to
create all sorts of problems for
everybody. So, we need to have uh a
consistent set of legislation. I love
the fact that we're ahead of the power
curve here,
>> the electric power curve in this case.
um and and getting some legislation here
is to help in Isqua, but it it's it's
completely inadequate um to deal with
the larger problem which is consistency
with our neighbors and the state as a
whole.
>> Yeah, I will echo that consistency as
well. I think in terms also you know the
reason I asked also about writers that
were 14 and 15 is you know these are
citizens who will are maybe getting
their first taste of regulatory
environments that they may not have had
to understand before this not the last
right welcome to uh uh approaching
adulthood um so I think it's I think
having consistency um simplicity um easy
to explain a easy for um parents and
businesses that cater to the market. Uh
the easier it is to explain uh the
better it's going to be for our young um
citizens and our not so young citizens
uh to be compliant with the law. So I'm
we're all a yes on that. Sounds like in
addition to these two questions, both of
you have some uh further thoughts that
you wish to add. May I
>> I I think this is I think this is a
really uh timely topic
>> and um and I kind of regret not going to
be around to to see it over the finish
line, but so I will have to get all of
my thoughts out on the table today. Um
it's a really interesting
balancing act we have to do with um
wanting to promote adoption because I
think there's a real need for this mode
of transportation. It's it's that's why
it's exploding. Um with safety and how
do we promote safety both for the rider
um but in some ways I'm even more
concerned about the walker that the
rider's going to run into. Um and so
I I think I like what we've got in place
because we can move. It's consistent. It
gives us a starting point. But I think
we really need to inform our legislative
agenda. I think there needs to be age
restrictions on class one and class 2
bikes. I was doing some research. Um, on
a bike you can get up to 90% of your
power um, from the assist. So, you can
be pedaling full tilt and that's only
10% if you got your throttle throttle
all the way up on a class one or class 2
bike. So, there there is a lot more
power and a lot more mass than the
typical uh 10-speed bike that um I was
riding around on when I was 12, 13, 14.
And um I think we need to recognize that
um that level of of uh of power that
that that uh that speed that weight um
is something that needs to be regulated.
And
there's an awareness, a need for
awareness of what the rules of the road
are. And you know, for somebody who's um
16, has a driver's license, they've gone
through all the training, they
understand the rules of the road. um
somebody who's 12 um hasn't done that um
doesn't understand maybe all of the
nuancing of of uh traffic safety um they
are probably illprepared to be driving
at those speeds in um in a busy
environment. So um like I said I I like
where we're going. I think we've done
great. Uh kudos to you guys. I think we
can amend the the ordinance that we saw
tonight when it comes back for council
adoption. Um I think that's fine. I kind
of understand where you're going where
we're giving you parks and community
services jurisdiction over parks and
community spaces um but not over other
uh rightways. Um,
so I think that's fine, but and then
it's really pushing towards um how do we
promote adoption, promote safety, and
really work for a statewide set of of uh
laws to make sure that we are achieving
those two um two goals.
>> Thank you, Council Member Ray. Deputy
Council President, you also had some
comments.
>> Yeah, absolutely. First of all, thanks
for putting together a really good
packet of information and a really clear
uh presentation. Um, and uh uh I uh am
part of the East Side Transportation
Partnership that met last Friday. Uh we
were adopting our legislative priorities
for 2026 and this was a robust topic of
conversation. So, um, when we say that,
um, that we're going to tailor tailor
our code to closely match neighboring
jurisdictions, I can hear a concern all
across the east side, uh, about, uh,
where the direction that we're going and
a lot of concern about safety and
especially about the safety of young
people. And thank you, uh, Council Ray
for mentioning the pedestrians that
sometimes get run into. Um, I will I
want to also say that Mayor Thompson
from both was very eloquent in talking
about ebikes, as Wes said pointed out,
are also a great solution for a lot of
people. And we don't want to demonize
them because uh they do provide a really
useful alternative for people that maybe
can't uh don't want a car or can't have
a car. And so we want to be really
careful that we're we're navigating this
very carefully. So, um I have personally
observed
I'm sure they're I'm sure they were
kids. You know, you always check your
biases, but uh personally observed
people I am sure are under the age of 16
or maybe under the age of 14 on the
highway with cars, with trucks. Uh and
it scared the heck out of me. And so I
want to be sure that we are being really
clear uh about the age requirements and
who should be on the road with uh other
vehicles. Uh I really want to commend
Chief Schwan for the direction that
they're the police are taking in terms
of education. I really appreciate the
comments that you've made about getting
an opportunity to talk to parents, to
talk to kids, to teach them about things
um as they're going through the process
of learning. Um and uh I think that is
the the best approach we could take with
our community is here's a learning
opportunity about road safety. So um I
just think uh you've done a tremendous
job and I I hope that we'll be taking
this uh I would usually say because I
don't think it's controversial. I would
usually say, "Let's put this on the
consent agenda," except it's such a high
item of interest that I bet the rest of
the council will want to discuss it,
too. So, so maybe u I would say let's
put it forward to the full council and
um we can discuss whether it goes on
consent or the regular agenda, but I
presume that the other council members
would like to take a a swack at
commenting on this as well. So, thank
you so much for a really great job.
>> I think it's also possible that more
people watch a full council meeting. As
much as as much as it grieves me to
suggest this, that it's possible that
more people watch a full council meeting
than a services, safety, and parks
committee meeting.
>> Not in my universe. I mean, not in my
household, but you know, in some
households.
>> Um, city administrator Bob Kutz, um, you
don't need any other language from us
tonight, right? these our u feedback is
what you were looking for.
>> The direction is fine. Um is there
anything else?
>> No. Um I just think that when we return
on the first we'll make that change um
regarding the the parks director and uh
change the penalties as outlined.
>> Excellent. And it will be on regular
business.
>> And regular business. All right. Thank
Thank you both for the pre for the
information this
>> Thank you. Um and council president um
Barbara de Michelle we actually have
ebikes now that are going to be
delivered here shortly. So if you want
to come over and you can't ride one but
you can see one and you can and I'm sure
Wes would allow you to come and see
yours as well. There you go. You can
ride his.
>> There you go. And so, um, I think also I
want to say thank you for acknowledging
because the boundaries in the
jurisdictional thing is, uh, a big deal
because a lot of people when you're
writing, you're not paying attention to
the boundaries. And if you went from one
city to the next and then you get
contacted by Isqua PD versus Belleview
or someone else, you don't know where
you're at and oh, it was legal in that
jurisdiction. Oh, but now it's not
there. That can be problematic. And so,
I think specifically in putting some of
those on, it's a big deal. Uh, also I
think it's amazing that I've seen even
now clips that, you know, you see you've
seen 14, 15 year olds or you think
someone that's younger. Well, I've seen
videos now to where parents on their
phones and Wes might be able to speak to
this where they actually can put the
power or acknowledgement on their phone
on how fast their child writing next to
them. And there's ones as small as four
and three that are on these with their
which which is cool because, you know,
they're starting young and I get it. But
at the same time, they're able to put
limitations on the speeds and um some of
those boundaries. So, we're venturing
there's going to be those anomalies and
different things. So, the education
piece is also so big that they need to
know even now on a regular bicycle cuz
let's say someone's coming down the
Highlands Hill, those speeds that they
came, if they got into a crash or ran
into somebody that's a pedestrian going
up and down the Highlands is the same as
if they were on a motorcycle or on the
road, they are still subject to that.
whether it's a pedal bike or it's not.
And so that education piece may be
greater even than we understand because
even if they have an ebike or an e-
motorcycle, it's still the same if
they're on a regular bicycle and they're
on something as get that velocity going
as you spoke about from even just being
on a regular bike. So I think there's a
lot of things that we can do with this
um education wise, not even just with
these ebikes. And so I think that's an
exciting piece. Um and then we can also
help and work with our partners in the
community So, thank you very much.
>> Thank you, Chief. Uh, that concludes
agenda item COOM0182.
Uh, before we adjourn, uh, I just I want
to take a couple minutes or a minute or
a minute or two, uh, to just share, uh,
a couple of remembrances about Council
Member Ray. Uh the first is that um most
people will not remember, but council
member Ray, I'm sure, remembers that uh
early on in his tenure, I actually point
of ordered him in a meeting. Um he was
referring to a previous measure that was
before the council. Um and I point of
ordered him because you can't do that.
You can't re uh you can't re uh argue uh
settled settled business. And he was so
gracious about it. And I and he said,
"Yeah, yeah, you're right. I I can't do
that." And I just thought, "Wow, that is
really great. I'm gonna I'm gonna take
that as an aside and I'm gonna store
that away and I'm going to save that for
a moment where he does something and I'm
going to be gracious about it." And I
never had to use that jet because you
have always been such a professional and
such a great person. Usually we sat next
to each other uh through the many years
on council and and I will miss that. And
the second thing I will mention is that
many times things get decided at uh off
sites and not necessarily on this
podium. And council member Ray has been
a stalwart ally on the subject of
council committees. And this body, this
services and safety and parks committee
I consider really really important and
it exists partially because council
member Ray um was was such a strong
proponent of it when the when the
subject came up. So thank you. Thank
you. Uh, and I will miss your wisdom up
here on the day.
>> Deputy Council President gets the last
word.
>> Oh boy. So, uh, and and I just want to
acknowledge that Mayor Paulie is back
with us and, uh, so I'm glad you could
be here to hear the remarks. Uh, I want
to say that I agreed with everything
that she said about your financial
wisdom and yes, I have relied on it
often. Uh, but you know what? But I'm
going to miss Chris is a very kind
person, a really kind person. And he's a
very funny person. And he's really good
at telling dad jokes.
And none of us laugh, but we own
>> but we find music somewhat. Yes. And so,
uh, not only are we going to miss your
financial wisdom, but I'm going to miss
all the jokes and all the laughs that
we've had. And, um, yes. and your just
your endearing kindness and gentleness
and uh wisdom toward people. It's been
an absolute joy to serve with you and uh
and as Mayor Paulie said, you will will
will be missed very much. So, thank you
for your service to the city of Isiqua.
>> Would you like the last word?
>> No,
>> that's a no. And
>> that is in fact the last word.
>> He did. No, that was that that was the
last word. Uh all right. Thank you. Uh
and with that it is 7:13 and we are
adjourned.
>> Oh 2 minutes. Oh no. But we are