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Planning Policy Commission Auto captions

Thursday, October 22, 2020

6:30 PM · 1h 16m
Section
1. CALL TO ORDER
1a
Commission Membership
packet pp.3
Staff report:
Planning Policy Commission About Staff Liaison Created in 1983, this commission serves as a Christen Leeson, Senior Planner policy advisory body to the Mayor and provides Email guidance and direction for Issaquah’s future growth through continued review and improvement to the Regular Members City’s Comprehensive Land Use Plan and related 2020 – Ron Faul land use documents. 2020 – Joan Probala 2022 – Joy Lewis Membership 2022 – Janice Carle The Planning Policy Commission is comprised of 2022 – Bill Rinehart seven regular members, with four-year terms; and 2022 – Jason Voiss several alternates, with two-year terms. All 2023 – Vacant members are appointed by the Mayor and subject to confirmation by the City Council. Terms expire Alternate Members April 30 of the year listed. For more information, 2020 – Robin Beukers see IMC 18.03.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
2a
Minutes of October 7, 2020
packet pp.5–11
Staff report:
APPROVAL OF MINUTES a) 10-07-20 Joint Development Commission & Page [0000] Planning Policy Commission Special Minutes
2b
Minutes of October 8, 2020
packet pp.13–17
Staff report:
APPROVAL OF MINUTES b) 10-08-20 Planning Policy Commission Minutes Page [0000]
4. REPORTS
4a
October 13, 2020 Council Study Session
5. OTHER BUSINESS / ANNOUNCEMENTS
5a
Upcoming Schedule
packet pp.27
Staff report:
• Schedule
0:03 so good evening
0:04 and welcome to the october 22nd meeting
0:07 of the planning policy commission
0:09 because of the governor's direction we
0:12 are
0:13 still doing this meeting virtually
0:17 all the answers will be in the chat box
0:20 and if anybody is willing to
0:23 participate in the
0:27 public hearing or the uh
0:30 audience comments please make yourself
0:32 known the earth the way you can get in
0:34 is on the
0:35 internet and doug will let you in
0:38 when it is time for you to speak so
0:41 with first thing we're going to do is
0:42 ask keith to take a roll call
0:48 except you're on mute
0:53 see see you know you asked me to do real
0:56 work and i i
0:57 i'm not sure i can get through it um uh
1:01 commission chair pro below here
1:04 uh commission vice chair foul
1:08 not here uh commissioner lewis
1:12 here uh commissioner reinhard
1:16 here uh commissioner carl
1:20 thanks commissioner voice
1:24 here uh and commissioner
1:27 uh bucher's not in attendance
1:31 that's the roll call okay
1:34 so um first thing normally that's on our
1:38 agenda is the approval
1:41 of the minutes um
1:46 the minutes of october the 7th i assume
1:49 you all have
1:50 read the minutes does anybody have any
1:54 corrections discussion errors
1:58 hearing them uh the minutes of october
2:00 the 7th
2:01 are approved the minutes of
2:04 october the 8th do i have
2:08 any um concerns
2:11 changes directions for the minutes for
2:14 october the 8th
2:16 hearing then the minutes are approved
2:20 so tonight we're going to have a meeting
2:22 on the proposed amendments to the
2:24 issaquah municipal code
2:27 concerning construction hours and i'm
2:30 going to introduce
2:32 chris grabowski and hit the
2:35 code enforcement officer for the city of
2:37 issaquah and he is going to
2:39 lead us in a discussion of the
2:43 proposals by the city
2:46 thank you what is before
2:50 the uh planning policy commission this
2:52 evening are proposed
2:54 uh changes to the city's construction
2:58 hours
2:58 ordinance which is uh chapter
3:01 uh 16.35 of these municipal code
3:05 um the intent of this
3:09 ordinance when it was adopted in 2016
3:13 was to regulate
3:18 construction and
3:22 construction activities in such a way
3:24 that
3:26 neighbors and residents of construction
3:29 projects
3:30 permitted construction projects were not
3:33 disturbed
3:34 by the noise
3:37 and dust and
3:40 other nuisances that
3:43 go along with a construction job
3:48 as such the ordinance limited the hours
3:50 of work from 7 am
3:51 to 6 pm monday through friday
3:54 no work could occur on a permitted job
3:57 site after 6 pm
3:59 or on weekends or holidays uh nor could
4:02 it begin before
4:03 7am
4:07 uh this is this has been going on
4:10 uh with no changes to it since
4:14 its adoption in 2016. we
4:17 typically have
4:20 a few violations per year
4:25 since 2018 we've had
4:28 10 active code enforcement cases
4:31 relating to
4:31 violations of this ordinance
4:35 however recently based on citizen input
4:41 it became clear that some exemptions
4:44 that the city was allowing
4:46 uh as far as uh what is defined as
4:50 construction activity
4:52 uh was disturbing neighbors
4:56 in the peaceful enjoyment of their of
4:58 their residences
5:00 in particular moving vehicles onto and
5:03 off of a site
5:05 fueling vehicles and doing other
5:07 maintenance
5:09 sometimes relating to mechanical
5:11 equipment or vehicles
5:14 was controverting the
5:17 intent of the ordinance which was to
5:20 afford people you know reasonable
5:22 enjoyment of their property
5:24 um we
5:28 discussed whether or not those
5:30 activities
5:31 uh could be deemed construction activity
5:34 with the city attorney
5:35 and he felt that
5:39 they were not so to include those
5:41 activities
5:43 and make sure that they were covered
5:45 under the ordinance
5:46 we have added a section under the
5:49 definition portion
5:50 of the ordinance that clearly stipulates
5:54 what construction activity
5:56 involves
5:59 that is sort of the meat of this
6:01 amendment there's also
6:03 we also added a section at the end
6:06 of the of the code
6:10 regarding exemptions because there may
6:13 be times
6:14 when uh there's work that has to occur
6:18 off hours those exemptions are
6:21 maintaining
6:22 a temporary erosion and sediment control
6:24 plan
6:25 so in other words if a business or if a
6:28 contractor has
6:29 a rain event and is
6:33 discharging water because of uh say a a
6:36 blown silt fence
6:37 and that discharge is getting into the
6:39 city system on a weekend
6:41 or after hours they need to take care of
6:43 that so that would be exempt
6:45 from construction hours
6:48 also any measures that the city would
6:50 deem necessary to correct
6:52 a code violation
6:55 would be exempt under the proposed
6:57 amendment
7:00 uh that is in in brief the general
7:04 background uh and analysis of
7:08 the proposed amendments so um
7:11 i will refer back to adam chairman if
7:15 you would like
7:16 to ask any questions or have the
7:19 commission ask questions well of course
7:22 we're going to follow our little
7:24 standard procedure
7:26 and since there is a public hearing
7:28 tonight i'm going to open the public
7:31 hearing
7:31 and ask at 6 37 and ask doug if anybody
7:36 signed up to speak
7:40 at that time there was nobody signed up
7:42 to speak
7:46 hearing that i'm going to close the
7:50 public hearing
7:51 at 6 38 and open it up discussion
7:57 on among the commissioners does anybody
8:01 join um joy has a question
8:04 commissioner lewis has a question thank
8:06 you joan this is uh commissioner lewis
8:09 keith i'm curious um when you guys were
8:12 finding that there was this discrepancy
8:14 but behind what was written in the code
8:16 and um
8:17 how people were um commenting on how
8:20 sites were being used
8:21 were there any share and shareholder
8:24 meetings any stakeholder meetings that
8:25 were held
8:26 to kind of assess like um if there was a
8:29 common theme
8:30 that was coming up as to why there was
8:32 these like whether it was moving trucks
8:34 or refueling or all the different things
8:35 that were happening that were non-permit
8:37 related that kind of like why those
8:39 things were forming a pattern or was
8:41 there any kind of
8:42 meetings that were taking place to kind
8:44 of establish maybe why there was this
8:46 need kind of on the other side
8:52 so uh keith niven director of community
8:55 planning and development
8:56 so commissioner lewis i think um so
8:59 let me give you my take um the city's
9:04 work hours are significantly more
9:07 stringent
9:08 than other cities in puget sound
9:12 we we you know we we have very tight
9:15 work hours
9:16 and so contractors who are trying to
9:19 maximize
9:20 their work during the dry season and
9:22 obviously we left that
9:24 apparently last week um you know
9:28 they are trying to basically get full
9:30 days in which means
9:31 you know moving equipment refueling
9:34 equipment
9:35 uh doing things maintenance on equipment
9:38 those kind of things
9:39 uh they would like to do
9:43 off hours uh while their crews are
9:46 are not on site so my sense is that's
9:49 why
9:50 it's happening like on saturdays or
9:53 you know a fueling truck might come
9:55 either early in the morning
9:57 or later in the evening to access the
10:00 equipment while it's idle
10:03 and not being used by the workers on
10:04 site so i think it's in the
10:06 my guess is it's an efficiency thing for
10:09 the contractors
10:10 just trying to get more done um you know
10:13 in a given day
10:14 which has already been somewhat
10:15 restricted by the city
10:17 um i appreciate that was when you just
10:20 said i
10:21 i'm guessing does is there has there
10:23 been like a forum to be able to have
10:25 like did you guys do like a virtual like
10:28 the chat
10:29 bangle breakfast i don't even know how
10:30 you would do it in this day and age of
10:32 basically of bringing together the
10:33 shareholders of saying
10:34 you know this works for you this doesn't
10:36 work for us whether it be um
10:38 you know citizen boards you know in our
10:41 in our communities or was there was
10:43 there some sort of mediation process it
10:45 kind of went through as this was being
10:46 created or is this the first time that
10:48 this is kind of seeing the light of day
10:51 so thank you for the clarification
10:53 um so uh or focusing me on on the task
10:57 the the actual ask so no um the city
11:00 uh so so the department did not reach
11:03 out to
11:04 uh currently active construction sites
11:07 uh to discuss kind of um
11:10 you know how big of whether this would
11:12 be considered a hardship or
11:14 how much of a a change this would be
11:17 for particular contractors my guess is
11:19 it would
11:21 vary depending on different contractors
11:24 but no we didn't do any outreach
11:27 um i guess so i had had when i first saw
11:30 this
11:30 i kind of thought well like what's the
11:32 impetus behind it right like what's the
11:34 data to say
11:35 what you know how many complaints have
11:37 we gotten how common is it that we're
11:39 bumping up against this
11:40 needing this kind of reform i had a
11:42 really great conversation with chris
11:44 um to answer some of my questions about
11:46 that and
11:47 um what i was curious about when i read
11:51 was wondering on kind of on the flip
11:53 side because on one hand you know we're
11:55 all at home
11:56 more um that that beeping of
11:58 construction
11:59 um trucks backing up and um kicking up
12:01 gravel you can definitely tell that
12:03 we're all needing a little bit of extra
12:06 love these days and that can just
12:07 definitely
12:08 work right on you in the wrong way so i
12:10 can totally relate to communities
12:11 wanting to find a way
12:12 to kind of keep a little bit more peace
12:14 a little more order
12:16 but on the flip side i kind of wonder
12:17 well is there this need you know and by
12:19 having
12:20 continuing to have this you know really
12:22 strict
12:23 adherence i wonder if there's kind of a
12:26 give and take maybe like for instance i
12:27 think our hours right now are 7 a.m to 6
12:30 p.m
12:30 and maybe lengthening that to seven
12:32 right so we're going to say there's
12:33 absolutely no activity other than
12:35 the few mitigations we have listed and
12:38 that means
12:38 we're going to give a give and take
12:40 right we're going to say we're taking
12:42 something away
12:42 that has been used right we know that we
12:45 don't want it to be used in this way
12:47 and so maybe giving like the extra hour
12:49 for instance
12:50 on again strictly on those monday
12:52 through friday
12:53 to kind of balance out what we're taking
12:56 um i didn't know if there had been
12:58 anything like that but to me that kind
13:00 of seemed like a natural a natural give
13:02 to maybe compensate for obviously
13:03 something that
13:04 was on the flip side needing to be used
13:08 so i think you touched on on part of why
13:11 um the hours were set up the way they
13:13 were initially
13:15 you know so the idea was um
13:18 that you know if construction happened
13:22 while most people went to work um
13:25 and then by the time they got home which
13:27 would be maybe six
13:28 uh you know the the sites would be you
13:31 know
13:32 being buttoned up for the night uh that
13:35 most residents would then be very
13:38 only slightly impacted by uh
13:42 the noise and everything else from
13:44 construction sites
13:46 um as you mentioned a lot of folks are
13:50 working from home these days uh that may
13:52 not have been when we initially
13:54 adopted this ordinance in 2016. and
13:57 as we talked about it with a resident um
14:01 just last week on next to a construction
14:04 site
14:04 you know it really hadn't occurred to me
14:06 that what we had passed
14:08 which which in my mind was the ability
14:11 for
14:12 most residents to not necessarily listen
14:14 to construction
14:16 activity all week long has changed and
14:19 people are hearing it
14:20 all day long um and that extra hour
14:24 i guess i'm i i know why you're asking
14:27 the question that you're asking but it
14:29 feels like
14:30 to me that people are still
14:33 not wanting to be inconvenienced by
14:36 construction activities
14:38 and i think what was suggested with
14:42 these code edits
14:45 maybe achieves what was expected by the
14:49 council
14:50 when they passed the ordinance four
14:52 years ago which is
14:54 basically saturdays and sundays except
14:57 for
14:58 exceptions um and chris didn't really go
15:00 into the exceptions a whole lot but
15:02 there are there is the ability for
15:03 contractors to ask
15:05 to work either longer or to work
15:07 saturdays and there's a
15:09 criteria process for which we would
15:11 possibly approve that
15:13 um but for basically weekends to be
15:16 quiet um and feel more like their
15:18 neighborhood so
15:20 you know again whether you agree with
15:22 that or not
15:23 you i don't know but that's i think why
15:26 we are pursuing the amendment now
15:30 is uh to maybe better carry out
15:33 what uh was maybe the intent with the
15:37 um 2016 uh code amendment
15:40 i don't know i don't think any time
15:45 is perfect i don't like seven in the
15:47 morning
15:48 you know so um we're just going to have
15:50 to balance it out
15:51 and hopefully it'll go away eventually
15:54 um i have a question from commissioner
15:56 voice
16:01 thank you commissioner voice here and
16:04 thank you commissioner lewis for that
16:05 kind comment about the
16:07 horse behind me my grandpa was a
16:09 sculptor
16:10 so that is actually one of the gifts he
16:11 left us amongst many sculptures
16:14 and i also want to pick up on something
16:16 commissioner lewis mentioned is i
16:18 would be interested to know the volume
16:20 of complaints
16:21 the city has received in terms of how
16:24 many projects and
16:25 permitted projects have been built
16:28 because
16:29 as director niven had mentioned
16:32 issaquah does have some pretty strict
16:35 codes as it
16:36 is um full disclosure i do work in this
16:39 industry
16:40 and we work not only in is a club
16:43 but also medina in clyde hill and
16:46 bellevue and izakawa is the toughest of
16:48 all of them
16:49 so while i understand some of these
16:52 people's complaints
16:53 we all not being able to work on
16:56 saturdays is a hardship for many
16:57 contractors
16:59 and just continually constraining one of
17:02 the few industries that
17:03 thankfully has not been heavily impacted
17:05 by kovit
17:06 seems a little wrong i understand people
17:09 are working it from home
17:11 but we have an industry that thankfully
17:13 has not suffered like retail or
17:15 restaurants and just adding more
17:16 limitations and more
17:18 limitations on small businesses because
17:20 many of these contractors are small
17:21 businesses
17:23 seems a little bit in the wrong
17:24 direction for what may be
17:26 very few complaints i believe i read in
17:29 the memorandum that there were
17:31 seven complaints from 2016 with the
17:34 addition of a few more
17:36 i want to thank mr grabowski
17:39 for mentioning that there were 10
17:41 violations
17:43 i imagine those contractors or builders
17:46 or companies have probably taken care of
17:48 those violations but
17:49 are we adding additional hardships to
17:51 people in one particular industry that
17:54 has been a light
17:55 through what appears to be a tough time
17:57 for everyone
17:59 so i guess my question is what
18:02 what are we looking at in terms of
18:05 complaints are we talking about
18:06 a dozen over four years
18:11 are we talking about two dozen what are
18:14 we talking about
18:17 so i will i'll attempt to answer your
18:19 question commissioner
18:20 so uh we probably get
18:24 between 15 and 20 complaints per year
18:27 of construction noise or people working
18:32 after hours on weekends or evenings
18:37 ipd is a good partner with me in this a
18:40 lot of times these violations are going
18:42 obviously happen when i'm not in the
18:44 office
18:50 the citizens will often call ipd to make
18:53 a noise complaint
18:54 and ipd will say okay fine we'll go out
18:57 and
18:57 check it out and what the police
18:59 department will do is they'll just
19:00 basically
19:01 note the time and uh day and the type of
19:05 activity that's going on and they'll
19:06 forward
19:07 the um that's if the citizen calls it in
19:11 uh a lot of times i'll get calls from
19:13 citizens just saying somebody worked
19:15 this weekend and i attempt to follow
19:18 that
19:18 up you know after the fact contractors
19:21 generally say what
19:22 we weren't there nobody you know it
19:24 wasn't us so
19:26 that you know those are not those are
19:29 kind of dead in the water for me i can't
19:31 pursue those because it's
19:32 i've got no real fact-based uh uh
19:37 evidence to go and make a case when i
19:39 get a police report that's good
19:41 uh and so typically what i will do is
19:44 i'll contact the contractor
19:48 and give them a warning i'll say you
19:50 know i received a report either from the
19:52 police
19:53 or if it's a credible report from a
19:54 citizen with like photographs and
19:56 you know times and things like that uh i
19:59 will tell the contractor
20:00 look this is your first warning
20:04 the next time there's there's going to
20:05 be a fine uh
20:07 you know the all these contractors are
20:09 if they have a pre-con
20:11 meeting with staff before the project
20:13 starts they're advised
20:15 you know what the hours of construction
20:19 are and what the penalties are for
20:20 violation
20:21 so um it's surprising to me that we get
20:24 any but
20:25 we do like i said about 15 complaints
20:28 maybe 20 complaints per year
20:30 but you know usually a warning takes
20:32 care of that but if it doesn't i end up
20:34 writing a fine
20:35 and those are the ten cases that you
20:37 know resulted in
20:39 in penalties in the last two years would
20:42 you say mr gabowski that most of these
20:44 penalties come from weekend complaints
20:45 like working on a saturday
20:47 or prior to dawn after sunset i mean are
20:51 they happening on monday through friday
20:53 because people are getting there at 6
20:54 30.
20:57 uh sorry to interrupt uh yeah there's no
20:58 real pattern i mean they're
21:00 they're a mix of all of those um
21:03 some are on the weekends some are on uh
21:07 in the morning beforehand some are after
21:09 hours
21:13 you know so i'm a certified community
21:15 noise
21:16 abatement officer as well and the thing
21:19 you know you are correct commissioner
21:22 voice in that
21:23 we are highly regulated in this city um
21:27 under state law construction activity
21:30 from a noise standpoint is typically
21:32 exempted
21:35 because of federal safety and osha
21:37 regulations
21:38 backup beeping of equipment is exempt
21:41 from noise regulations
21:43 but it doesn't mean that it doesn't
21:44 bother people and
21:46 uh noise is a funny thing uh if it
21:50 if it bothers you it really bothers you
21:53 um we're not
21:58 contractors have the ability to apply
22:01 for an after hours work permit
22:04 to do the work that's necessary but they
22:06 have to follow the rules
22:08 that's baked into the ordinance as it
22:11 already exists
22:13 what we're trying to do here is just
22:16 more clearly make it clearer
22:18 not only to contractors but
22:21 citizens as well what construction
22:24 activity
22:25 actually means it doesn't just mean
22:29 swinging a hammer on site it can also
22:31 mean mobilizing
22:32 demobilizing uh and and other work
22:35 that wasn't clearly captured
22:40 uh because there was no definition in
22:41 the original uh
22:43 in the original ordinance and i
22:46 appreciate that i guess um
22:48 and i appreciate the effort because
22:49 again i i'm one of those people who work
22:52 who live in a community and sometimes
22:54 they they
22:55 work a little long and it is annoying
22:57 when you're trying to do a zoom call
22:58 with the planning policy commission and
23:00 you can hear somebody hammering outside
23:03 so i get it i guess my concern is you
23:05 know for the
23:06 young people or not young people but for
23:07 the people who show up
23:09 at 6 45 i mean our headlights now
23:12 considered in this because
23:14 the definitions pretty pretty general
23:17 right so
23:17 any related quote any activity directly
23:21 related to an
23:22 active permitted project end quote
23:25 so i guess i mean is pulling up to a job
23:28 site
23:28 consider i mean is this something people
23:30 are going to be flagged for i mean does
23:31 everyone have to sit in their car till 7
23:33 00 a.m
23:34 or you know um possibly
23:37 mr grabowski is going to come after them
23:41 so i those are kind of my concerns
23:43 because again i understand what direct
23:46 director niven was saying that's most
23:48 likely what's happening is they're
23:49 trying to make
23:50 more of their time efficiently work in
23:52 is a club because they've had saturdays
23:54 taken away
23:55 so again i'm kind of worried about the
23:58 little guys who show up
24:00 at 6 30 6 45 they start pulling their
24:02 tools in i mean are these reasons to
24:04 flag people or
24:05 i guess that's kind of where i'm i'm
24:08 headed i i just
24:09 it's a pretty general definition
24:14 i agree it's it's all encompassing
24:17 um but um i guess a little bit of sort
24:21 of code enforcement 101 is
24:23 is in order um
24:26 you know violations
24:29 are if there's a gray area
24:33 officers are able to exert some
24:37 discretion i don't think
24:40 that if a citizen called me and said
24:44 you know somebody's sitting in their
24:45 vehicle um
24:47 waiting to go on to the job site and
24:49 they're you know radio
24:51 their windows down because they're
24:52 smoking in their car and the citizen
24:54 could hear their radio
24:56 do something about that i think i would
24:59 tell that citizen
25:00 that that is not a violation of this
25:03 ordinance
25:05 because i agree with you it would be an
25:08 overreach to start um you know hammering
25:13 contractors for you know their employees
25:16 just showing up to the job site
25:18 i think what we're trying to do here is
25:23 more accurately define
25:27 what construction activity is and it's
25:29 not always
25:31 just being on the job site and doing
25:34 work on the job site
25:36 it's taking equipment onto and off of
25:39 the site
25:39 and you know maintaining equipment on
25:42 the site after hours fueling equipment
25:44 uh those are i think reasonably
25:48 construction activities but i i
25:50 certainly wouldn't go after an employee
25:52 city or
25:53 you know a worker sitting in their
25:54 vehicle waiting to start
25:56 at seven o'clock
26:00 i have a question from commissioner
26:02 reinhardt
26:04 yes thank you this is commissioner
26:05 reinhardt so
26:08 mr grabowski um so the first question is
26:12 so when a company comes in today and
26:15 they get
26:16 prepped on what they can they cannot do
26:18 on a job site
26:20 are they are they given any kind of
26:23 message
26:24 that's that's related to this amendment
26:27 uh where they have to limit their
26:29 activity
26:31 um outside of the standard hours do they
26:33 receive any notification there
26:36 um or is this a brand new would this be
26:38 considered a brand new amendment to them
26:41 that they didn't see coming
26:45 uh commissioner right now uh
26:48 when a contractor goes into a
26:49 pre-construction meeting with staff
26:52 they're advised uh of this ordinance and
26:55 what construction hours
26:57 are and the
27:01 the definition of what construction
27:03 activity is
27:06 would be new because it's a it's a new
27:07 amendment to the existing ordinance
27:10 um so if this were to pass
27:14 then pre-cons from this point forward
27:17 would uh explain to them what
27:21 construction activity
27:22 is i mean our our attempt with
27:25 contractors
27:26 is to be very clear with them up front
27:28 uh because
27:29 education is is worth a pound of
27:32 prevention or education is prevention
27:37 got it so today they don't receive any
27:39 kind of message like
27:40 hey these are the hours you can operate
27:44 make sure not to do any maintenance
27:45 before or after don't move vehicles
27:47 around that all counts
27:49 like they they don't receive that
27:50 message at all for them it's all
27:52 you know any activity occurring at all
27:55 on the site
27:56 has to be within these hours these days
27:59 correct right now what they're being
28:01 told is that construction activity is
28:03 limited to these times
28:05 and these days and you can't do anything
28:08 on site during those times so
28:11 moving forward they'll be we will advise
28:14 them what
28:15 construction activity is defined as
28:18 so and and i'll just jump in if i can
28:21 chris
28:22 um so i think um so there's
28:25 so you've got existing construction
28:27 sites and
28:28 they would have had their pre-con
28:30 already and
28:32 construction hours would have been
28:33 explained to them and so this will be a
28:34 change
28:35 and so the city will need to go back out
28:38 to those existing
28:40 construction sites assuming this
28:42 amendment gets approved
28:44 and let them know that how
28:47 the definition of construction has
28:49 changed so that they can
28:51 at least understand what's expected
28:53 because for everybody who's already kind
28:55 of midstream
28:56 they've already had their pre-con
28:58 meeting and they're already out there
28:59 doing their thing so
29:01 if there's a change in the landscape uh
29:03 it would be incumbent upon us to go out
29:05 and
29:06 explain that to them if it gets adopted
29:10 okay assumption that if there is a real
29:13 need
29:15 to have some kind of constructions
29:17 outside of those hours
29:18 they can come in and get a special
29:20 permit and uh
29:22 the neighbors will be uh
29:25 told that what's going on and it's only
29:27 going to be for a short amount of time
29:29 so just um case in point uh so the
29:33 middle school that's being built at
29:34 dallas
29:35 they have asked to work on saturdays the
29:38 folks who live at timber ridge actually
29:40 enjoy watching the construction from
29:42 their windows
29:43 so they have they've said uh bring it
29:45 let them do it on saturdays that gives
29:47 us more to watch
29:48 so yes we do make contractors connect
29:52 with their neighbors and
29:54 we have some saturday work going on
29:56 right now
29:58 okay so that was my next question is so
30:00 when
30:01 what what do the rules change to when a
30:04 company requests
30:06 that additional permit to work outside
30:08 is that like is that just standard like
30:10 they get an extra hour on either side
30:12 plus a saturday or is it kind of
30:14 tailored case by case
30:17 so it's tailored case by case so first
30:20 for some
30:21 cases uh there is a
30:24 public benefit so so basically one of
30:27 the criteria that they have to
30:29 demonstrate is public benefit
30:31 and them getting their job done quicker
30:33 is really not a public benefit although
30:35 they all try to argue that point
30:37 um but like for example if you had to um
30:40 like say do a new water line crossing of
30:44 a road
30:45 right so that construction in that
30:48 street
30:49 can either be done by closing a half
30:51 street twice
30:53 or you could potentially close the
30:54 entire street and get it all done
30:56 in one night so under situation like
31:00 that we may
31:01 allow for nighttime construction
31:05 to minimize the impact on the community
31:08 so but
31:08 but that's what they have to demonstrate
31:11 and for example
31:12 there's another ask that's coming
31:15 where the school district is going to
31:18 ask to work a double shift on the middle
31:21 school
31:22 and the reason is because they're behind
31:24 schedule
31:25 and they need to work a night shift to
31:27 get the school done by
31:28 by september so they can open for a
31:31 school year
31:32 you know so the conversation i had with
31:34 their um construction manager is
31:36 talk to timber ridge get have a
31:38 conversation with them
31:40 see if they're okay with nighttime
31:41 construction it'll all be inside the
31:43 building so it won't be
31:45 outside construction activity um but
31:48 that's part of the
31:49 threshold that we've created is is
31:52 you know i don't want to get you know
31:54 300 complaints
31:56 on a monday morning because somebody was
31:57 working on a saturday
32:00 got it and and the last question is
32:04 so what's the average project time um
32:06 they're not all
32:07 you know multi-month projects what's
32:10 what's the average here
32:11 that that will have this kind of
32:13 activity
32:15 wow so um i can give you some examples
32:19 i mean a medium-sized building uh you
32:22 generally assume like
32:24 a year and a half of construction
32:27 starting with site work eventually
32:29 moving to building and then it's
32:31 interior finishing
32:32 but then you have certain like
32:34 residential projects
32:36 where they may have like a couple phases
32:39 and we have a townhouse project
32:42 in the south part of town that's
32:44 probably gonna be
32:45 three years at the end of the day by the
32:48 time they finish their last unit
32:50 so that's three years of basic constant
32:52 construction now
32:54 when i mentioned wet weather when we hit
32:56 october
32:57 um things change because it gets wet
33:00 outside we don't want people moving a
33:02 lot of dirt
33:03 so what ends up happening is the amount
33:05 of construction usually goes down
33:08 from october until april and then it
33:10 goes back up again
33:13 got it yeah being on the other side of
33:17 it so i
33:17 you know i i used to do uh excavating
33:21 uh when i was much younger so i
33:23 understand kind of the
33:24 the compressed rules and and the very s
33:28 uh very strict hours um for
33:32 for the amount of for the amount of uh
33:35 i guess complaints that that sounds like
33:37 we're getting i it just doesn't seem to
33:40 like it's like it's needed that we need
33:42 to tam
33:43 you know become more strict on these
33:46 roles or guidelines
33:48 that's my take on it but thank you for
33:51 answering my questions
33:54 i don't see any more questions in the
33:55 chat box
33:59 are you guys ready to vote on this
34:04 amendment
34:06 i need somebody who would
34:11 make a motion
34:17 nobody's willing to make a motion
34:20 walk me through it i i'm going to
34:23 interrupt joan i've got a comment in the
34:24 box
34:25 um i i want to try to give this dialogue
34:28 one more minute
34:29 um you know we often obviously haven't
34:32 heard
34:32 um anything um personally from our
34:35 esteemed chair
34:36 or from janus but right now i'm feeling
34:39 a little bit like we have some questions
34:41 right now keith i'm feeling like right
34:42 now we have um
34:44 something that we see as being very
34:45 stringent right and
34:47 i um you know there's i think there's
34:50 been
34:50 some good comments and tones coming out
34:52 on the other hand i'm also hearing that
34:55 what you're finding is that intent
34:58 hasn't really come through right in the
35:00 last couple years and you're trying to
35:01 kind of match that up with what
35:02 council had originally wanted i'm kind
35:06 thinking that there would be a happy
35:07 medium that we need to put forward
35:10 um and saying that maybe if you would
35:12 like to put something through that's
35:14 more stringent
35:15 to maybe have that kind of like daylight
35:17 savings
35:18 um i don't have a calendar in front of
35:20 me so but when you have that kind of
35:22 time frame when you like is you know
35:23 acknowledging right now by the time that
35:26 it's um kicking off you know seven pm
35:28 six pm
35:29 it's dark you know neighbors are wanting
35:31 to eat their dinner
35:32 and wrap up you know when we're in the
35:34 winter and we're home more we're kind of
35:37 nestled in a little bit so um i think
35:39 having that forgiveness maybe for when
35:41 there are those construction hours
35:43 maybe that whatever that daylight
35:44 savings time is and you'll have to
35:45 forgive me that you know obviously
35:47 it hasn't quite ended but having maybe
35:49 writing something into the code
35:51 that part of the year that maybe there
35:53 is an extended amount of time like doing
35:55 a seven to seven or doing something that
35:57 allows
35:57 a little bit more give to allow um
36:00 you know i i just think of these small
36:02 examples of somebody who maybe left
36:04 their work truck
36:05 you know and there he knows that his
36:06 boss needs him to move it you know
36:08 before he goes to another job site on
36:10 monday you know and then he's going to
36:11 put his whole job in jeopardy
36:13 um if they've already had a warning or a
36:15 violation i appreciate that izakawa has
36:17 a very stringent
36:19 code but taking it so far i feel like
36:21 there needs to be
36:22 another little give and take so i i
36:25 would like to recommend something that
36:27 is has a little bit
36:28 um a little bit of wiggle room while
36:31 still adhering to what the city finds
36:33 was the original intent and hasn't
36:34 necessarily been there so i'm not sure
36:36 if people are
36:37 of that mind so before we propose an
36:39 amendment i'd like to hear from
36:40 everybody else if there's
36:42 a change or something they'd like to see
36:44 or if people are wanting to pass this
36:45 through as
36:46 as written commissioner voice here i
36:49 did not sign into the chat box but thank
36:51 you yeah
36:55 i think commissioner lewis idea is great
36:59 so possibly and i understand the city is
37:01 trying to better define something so i i
37:03 actually don't necessarily have a
37:04 problem with the city's trying to do
37:07 i do like commissioner lewis's idea
37:09 because i'm a little bit disappointed
37:11 that the city didn't do a little bit
37:12 more outreach to some of the
37:13 shareholders
37:14 uh you know whether it's taylor morris
37:16 and whether it's some of these smaller
37:17 builders whether it's
37:19 you know whether it's costco because
37:21 again they do have a stake in this and
37:23 they you know hurts their bottom line
37:25 i like the idea of maybe letting the
37:28 city clearly define
37:29 construction activity but also putting
37:31 something like a little amendment
37:33 or amendment that says something about
37:36 daylight savings because
37:37 as to director newman's point um they
37:40 have more daylight
37:41 and they actually that's when the hours
37:43 actually ramp up right spring so spring
37:45 forward all of a sudden the day gets
37:46 longer that's when construction is
37:48 already on the up and up
37:49 uh these virtual stay-at-home meetings
37:52 aren't going to last forever so i don't
37:53 want to write a code that's around
37:55 or write an amendment to the code that's
37:57 based around what's
37:59 a novel situation right now that could
38:02 possibly hurt people down the line
38:04 so i'd like that idea i like the idea of
38:06 maybe
38:07 putting something in there about
38:08 daylight savings if staff can do that
38:10 where again to the director's point
38:14 once april comes a lot more outside work
38:16 happens because
38:17 in the fall people start coming back
38:19 indoors
38:20 you can't paint houses in the fall it's
38:22 much more difficult so
38:24 i like that i like that a lot
38:30 before i respond to that i think
38:33 commissioner carl
38:34 has posted a question or comment
38:39 thank you this is janice carl can you
38:41 hear me all right
38:42 yes yes okay thank you um i
38:45 generally agree i have no significant
38:48 concerns with what we're discussing
38:49 tonight
38:50 and i have no concerns with either the
38:52 the perspectives
38:54 put forth by commissioner voice or
38:55 commissioner lewis
38:57 excuse me i do have a question though is
38:59 is and i can't tell from what i've read
39:01 so far
39:02 whether the um exemptions or rules etc
39:06 make any differentiation between
39:09 different
39:10 contexts of construction and by that i
39:12 mean is it in a
39:14 primarily residential area or is it a
39:16 primarily commercial
39:17 area because obviously if it's in a pr
39:20 if it's being constructed adjacent to
39:23 the costco complex i really don't have a
39:25 lot of concerns about them working off
39:27 hours
39:28 but next door neighbors to me i am a
39:30 little more concerned
39:32 so if you could answer that question i'd
39:33 appreciate it thank you
39:38 uh commissioner let me make sure that i
39:40 understand your question
39:41 so you're asking if the code as it's
39:43 currently written makes any
39:45 differentiation
39:46 uh for the zoning of the neighborhood
39:50 that the construction is occurring in
39:53 yeah i think that would be a reasonable
39:54 way to frame it yes thanks
39:56 okay uh that is not how the current code
40:00 is written the current code
40:01 however does uh call out
40:04 uh the size of ja of the job
40:08 as far as the fine amounts go
40:11 but in particular response to your
40:14 question
40:15 no that's not how the code is currently
40:22 written
40:24 okay so um uh there was
40:27 clearly uh two commissioners who are
40:30 interested in daylight savings time
40:32 which um
40:34 i'm i'm still waiting for them to get
40:35 rid of that so
40:39 let me ask let me let me open or or at
40:42 least show you a different door and see
40:44 what that looks like
40:45 so you know as opposed to trying to
40:49 maybe do a quid pro quo and have a take
40:53 and a give
40:54 maybe the question is rather than a take
40:57 what if it's what if there's just um
41:00 more edges put on that so for example
41:04 um you know let's say a contractor
41:07 finishes up on a friday uh on a friday
41:11 at six o'clock and he's got a backhoe on
41:14 site and he knows he needs it
41:16 in monroe monday morning and so his plan
41:19 would be to
41:20 on saturday transported to monroe um
41:23 if i'm if i'm a resident or a neighbor
41:25 of that project and i hear
41:27 a truck backing up to the site and
41:29 moving a backhoe
41:31 i'm just going to think they're working
41:32 on saturday right
41:34 so what if what if those things that are
41:37 happening
41:38 after hours related to um
41:42 unloading and offloading and fueling
41:45 requires
41:47 a notification to the city in advance
41:50 so for example if if i'm a contractor
41:53 and i want to work on saturday
41:55 i don't i don't ask the city on friday
41:57 afternoon if i can work on saturday what
41:59 the rules say is you have to get your
42:01 application in by wednesday
42:03 all right so if i'm a contractor and i
42:05 know on saturday
42:07 i would like to move some equipment off
42:09 site
42:10 what if it requires them to ask make
42:13 that ask
42:14 right and as long as we get that asked
42:17 by a certain time
42:18 then the neighbors can get notified that
42:21 what's going to happen on saturday
42:22 is the contractor's simply going to move
42:25 some equipment off site
42:27 but they're not actually working so that
42:30 so that it satisfies maybe two things it
42:33 doesn't take anything away from
42:35 the contractor they just have to now be
42:38 a little bit more communicative
42:40 in what they plan to do so that you know
42:43 again
42:44 neighbors aren't surprised and i think
42:45 one of the things that we're trying to
42:48 accomplish with this is
42:51 better predictability for residents
42:54 because if i'm if i
42:56 if i don't think somebody should be
42:57 working on saturday and i hear
42:58 construction equipment
43:01 that's just gonna that's just gonna make
43:02 me angry right so
43:04 this would potentially allow for a
43:06 mechanism
43:07 to communicate out to neighbors um
43:11 which might might be okay um
43:14 and again i'm just throwing that on the
43:16 table not asking you guys to
43:18 to necessarily embrace that but just as
43:21 maybe a different approach
43:22 than trying to then recommending
43:25 expanding the work hours
43:27 during the dry season
43:34 so i don't have
43:37 any problems
43:40 amendment as is written based on the
43:43 fact that
43:45 uh a contractor can get special
43:47 dispensation
43:49 if there is some need to to work on
43:51 saturday
43:52 uh to remove a backhoe or to do anything
43:56 else
43:56 that is quick easy and
44:00 not over the top in noise
44:04 so that's where i'm coming from i don't
44:06 i don't know how you
44:08 can put things in there
44:11 specifically about daylight savings time
44:14 or any other specific
44:17 thing um
44:21 i i just i just i'm having a hard time
44:24 doing that i think that um what the city
44:27 has said and what they're trying to do
44:28 and what the fact that they're
44:30 going out and informing the citizens
44:33 that something is going to happen on on
44:35 hours
44:36 i think accomplishes what i would want
44:38 as a if something was going on next to
44:41 my thoughts
44:46 so i see
44:49 comment from
44:53 uh commissioner lewis do you have
44:55 another comment
44:57 yeah i wanted to respond to what keith
44:59 said so um
45:01 i think what's nice is so you're hearing
45:02 that we're saying that right now this is
45:04 super
45:04 open-ended right um or as far as
45:06 actually it's the opposite
45:08 it's taking something and it's we're
45:09 making it a lot more astringent
45:11 and so i i like your suggestion of
45:13 giving it some edges
45:15 right of saying yeah if you're again
45:17 non-work permit related needing to do
45:19 something on your actual construction
45:21 site then
45:22 having a 48-hour notice is required um
45:25 but the problem is that right now we
45:27 didn't do any kind of
45:29 outreach right it would it would feel
45:31 different to me right now if we had
45:32 another
45:33 20 people on our call because we know
45:35 when people are grumpy about something
45:37 they don't mind telling us but i'm not
45:39 seeing that right now keith right you're
45:40 kind of missing
45:41 the outrage part for me to justify
45:43 having something so stringent right i'm
45:45 not seeing
45:46 that kind of backup of saying this
45:48 groundswell there's been this huge
45:49 problem
45:50 so i like this idea of putting a corner
45:52 on it putting an
45:53 edge on it allowing a little bit of
45:55 breathing room on it but this is the
45:56 kind of thing that we would have
45:58 that he would propose when we're talking
45:59 to shareholders i mean you would have a
46:01 community say
46:02 yeah it's a one-off you know um we don't
46:05 mind that
46:05 and being able to have then like um
46:08 commissioner voice said
46:09 being able to have them the other side
46:10 say yeah we can work with that but
46:13 without having those stakeholders having
46:16 this discussion
46:17 it's hard for me to say that's the right
46:19 corner you know what i'm saying like
46:20 that's part of my recommendation of is
46:22 it gives this kind of more open-ended
46:24 thing
46:25 so i like where you're going with it but
46:27 it's hard because i'm not either one of
46:29 those stakeholders right now
46:31 right so i would be happy to put forward
46:33 something that says
46:34 that exemptions need to be done but
46:36 that's harder to word with us all right
46:38 now in our chat boxes right
46:40 so that's i'm understanding that you're
46:43 probably not going to want a kickback
46:45 right um
46:46 to staff to say hey let's look at this
46:48 again right as far as i'm
46:50 um understand it this is going straight
46:52 to council's docket to be voted on
46:54 there's no in between right now from us
46:56 to them so being able to have that
46:58 language created
46:59 of saying hey we're going to add a
47:00 little corner here a little corner there
47:03 to be able to give that flexibility that
47:05 somehow is needed
47:07 and yet um you know what is the
47:09 framework done for
47:10 then you know how many people within 500
47:12 feet of the site need to be notified
47:13 within 48 hours is that
47:15 a taxing this on staff to then have to
47:17 notify all those people
47:19 within those 48 hours like those things
47:21 kind of still need to get worked out
47:23 so i like where you're going with it but
47:25 i don't know that we're going in a place
47:26 that allows us to give a recommendation
47:29 on it does that make sense
47:36 yeah i understood what you said so so
47:39 just to give you a piece of information
47:41 commissioner
47:41 which may or may not affect your
47:43 perspective um
47:45 if if you want to work on saturday
47:48 uh we require um door hangers
47:51 within a certain distance of your job
47:54 site so
47:55 so the notification piece of this code
47:58 and working outside of the set work
48:01 hours
48:02 is already set that's already in code so
48:04 it would just be basically
48:06 saying you would have to follow that
48:08 procedure if you wanted to maybe say
48:11 um you know do some stuff on saturday
48:14 uh in terms of fueling or moving
48:17 equipment on or off the side or stuff
48:19 that we've defined as
48:20 as being um necessary for that
48:24 additional
48:24 outreach so so i think i mean i think
48:26 the process is in place
48:28 now you're right we haven't talked to 20
48:30 contractors
48:32 um you know and and gone their opinions
48:35 on whether this was going to be a deal
48:37 breaker for them or not
48:38 um but that's uh that's kind of the
48:41 process we followed i
48:42 i think again the perspective was uh
48:46 you know was there a piece of code that
48:50 needed some clarification
48:52 and i think that's what is in front of
48:54 you guys today is
48:55 is that belief that there is um
48:58 just to increase predictability
49:02 so who is responsible for putting the
49:04 door hangers on
49:05 is the city or the contractor contractor
49:11 okay and does he have a specific
49:14 amount of area that he has to know five
49:17 people
49:18 it it is there's a certain radius of the
49:20 construction site and i don't know what
49:22 that is off the top of my
49:24 head that's okay
49:29 just so i know that i i would assume
49:32 that the contractor should be
49:34 uh required to do that not the city uh
49:37 that would just cause more
49:38 uh time expense for the city
49:43 so there is a question from commissioner
49:45 voice
49:49 more of a comment really commissioner
49:51 voice
49:52 first let me just say thank you to my
49:54 fellow commissioners for asking such
49:56 great questions on behalf of
49:57 such a great industry i actually
50:01 am in agreement with director niven in
50:03 the sense that
50:05 i know that you guys are trying to
50:06 define a better definition between
50:09 typical work hours and i know there's
50:10 procedures already in place for those
50:12 saturdays
50:13 so i really do appreciate the the
50:16 concept of
50:18 having a contractor have the ability to
50:20 reach out to the city and say
50:22 director niven this is my situation can
50:24 i get a one-time waiver to move
50:26 these this or do this or do that and
50:29 then being able to give you know 48-hour
50:32 notice
50:33 having the city say okay and then
50:35 possibly
50:36 following the same path they already do
50:38 for a saturday so
50:40 even though not a big fan of little
50:43 more constraints and
50:46 also would have liked to see a little
50:47 bit more shareholder involvement i'm
50:49 okay with it i do like
50:51 director niven's point and i i would
50:52 like to somehow attach that to what
50:54 we're sending but i i am
50:56 i understand that the code was written
50:58 in 2016 we've been living and abiding by
51:00 these rules for the most part for four
51:02 years
51:02 it's really just trying to narrow that a
51:04 little bit down so we don't have
51:06 people kind of going rogue on us and
51:09 doing things
51:10 that uh you know that are unfortunately
51:11 causing complaints because again i
51:14 i'm also a resident and i don't like
51:16 noise on saturdays when i'm at home
51:17 relaxing either
51:19 and it would i think it would take care
51:20 of a lot of situations
51:22 i think a lot of situations in life are
51:24 just better handled when people
51:27 communicate a little bit better so
51:29 if there's a mechanism where contractors
51:31 can contact
51:32 your guys's office and say hey this is
51:34 my situation can we do this one time
51:36 and give the proper notice i think that
51:38 kind of alleviates my concern
51:40 um but yeah next time it it's always
51:43 nice to have a little bit more breathing
51:44 room right before we have to send this
51:46 to council and i think that's probably
51:47 commissioner lewis's
51:49 um take away from well maybe not take
51:51 away but that's kind of what i'm hearing
51:53 and i would echo that because sometimes
51:55 we're getting these things
51:56 and they're they're already scheduled to
51:58 go to council like a week and a half
52:00 later
52:01 and that's a little bit disappointing at
52:03 least for mayan
52:04 so i'm okay with moving forward with
52:06 this i do like keith's suggestion
52:08 and hopefully we can maybe attach that
52:11 and then
52:12 take a vote on it
52:16 i don't see anybody else in the chat
52:18 room
52:20 any other comments
52:24 i'm gonna i'm gonna jump in with some
52:25 language and see if anybody likes it
52:27 before i propose it as a motion
52:29 right now what i have is that any
52:30 construction activity on a work site
52:32 outside of the stated hours from 7 a.m
52:34 to 6 p.m will require 48 hours notice to
52:37 the city and community
52:38 as dictated in ordinance 2777
52:42 did that sound like the edge you were
52:45 saying because we have to
52:46 obviously propose right right now it
52:48 sounds like there's a consensus to
52:50 propose an amendment
52:51 uh to put forward uh to pass it to pass
52:54 this through
52:55 so to go off of your edge i'm trying to
52:58 write something that we can
52:59 move forward yeah so super
53:03 great um
53:06 um so like you know just making chili on
53:10 so um what i would say is
53:13 um i would i would almost uh
53:17 change the definition to include like a
53:20 new definition for ancillary
53:22 construction activities
53:24 and then you could say ancillary
53:26 construction activities include
53:28 things such as you know the the
53:31 loading and unloading of equipment from
53:33 a job site the fueling
53:35 of equipment on a job site and those
53:38 activities
53:39 um you know maybe allowed
53:43 and i think we shouldn't say outside of
53:45 construction
53:46 hours because i think those things would
53:48 piss anybody off on a sunday right
53:50 but you know if if it's a saturday so
53:53 maybe we
53:54 we bracket when it could happen like
53:57 within an
53:57 hour of normal construction times
54:01 or on a saturday given given
54:04 uh 48 hours notice to the city
54:08 i mean i don't again i'm just kind of um
54:11 throwing words at you but
54:12 i would want it to not touch the rest of
54:16 the construction
54:18 activity because there's a criteria for
54:20 getting outside and
54:21 this is a different thing this is really
54:23 not construction it's
54:25 kind of like ancillary construction
54:27 activities and i don't know if there
54:29 might be a better word
54:30 or phrase for that and maybe chris has
54:32 some thoughts on this because
54:34 i'm i'm monkeying with his stuff so um
54:38 you know at this point um anybody
54:41 wanting to help craft that language feel
54:44 free to jump in
54:45 uh in the lake with me
54:48 so um just stating that
54:51 anything any ancillary
54:56 construction outside of the normal hours
54:59 needs to have a 48 hour do we have to go
55:02 in and name each one of the
55:04 possibilities fueling and all that
55:06 it is ancillary
55:10 um so so i think chris would tell you
55:13 at least i'm gonna tell you the less the
55:16 less i have to
55:17 um define things that aren't defined in
55:20 code the better
55:21 so if if it's actually says these are
55:24 what that that is
55:26 um then i don't have a contractor
55:29 telling me that
55:30 that um you know jackhammering a slab
55:33 is an ancillary construction activity or
55:36 driving piles for a foundation is
55:39 ancillary because it's not really
55:41 building the building it's all
55:42 underground right
55:43 so i don't want to have those
55:44 conversations so the problem with
55:46 less definition is there's more
55:49 discretion and i think what we're trying
55:51 to do
55:51 is make it very predictable both for the
55:54 contractor
55:55 the city and the residents and so
55:58 i would at least lean towards kind of
56:01 clearly saying what we're calling this
56:03 now new thing which is in addition to
56:06 what's already in code and chris
56:08 you and mike so i'm going to let you
56:10 talk
56:14 so a good rule of thumb with code as you
56:17 want to be as
56:19 as clear as possible but but
56:22 building some vagueness you know that
56:25 that infamous
56:26 including but not limited to
56:30 you know i think what we maybe what i
56:33 might suggest to the commission is to
56:36 remember
56:37 where this is coming from uh
56:41 as far as what's driving this
56:44 uh this proposed amendment that that
56:46 we're spending this time
56:48 this deconstructing and that is
56:51 that you know what is defined
56:54 as construction activity
56:57 uh sort of questionable
57:01 and uh our on
57:04 on the advice of our attorney we decided
57:07 that
57:08 that these activities that maybe weren't
57:12 considered construction activity should
57:14 be defined as construction activity if
57:17 we want to capture them
57:18 under this ordinance
57:21 so uh i i don't know if i'm
57:25 really clarifying anything here or
57:27 muddying the waters it's
57:29 you know it you can
57:32 you can go either way you can over
57:33 define and you can under define
57:35 and both have their there's pitfalls
57:38 with both um which is where
57:42 officer discretion comes in you know if
57:45 you name
57:46 two or three things what about the
57:47 fourth thing
57:49 and that's exactly right you know and
57:52 and
57:53 one thing i've discovered after doing
57:54 this for you know
57:56 20 plus years is that as soon as you
57:59 write something down
58:00 somebody will find a way uh to
58:03 you know get around it or they'll find
58:05 some activity that you didn't define
58:07 and you know so you can chase your own
58:10 tail forever on that kind of thing
58:13 for what it's worth if it helps i mean
58:15 these documents and code are all
58:17 completely littered with you know it's
58:19 somebody's discretion it's somebody's
58:20 discretion i don't know if that helps
58:22 um but that might be able to give it the
58:24 vagueness
58:26 uh because again i the city staff are
58:28 gonna do a great job of seeing who's
58:30 trying to
58:30 squeeze in a few extra hours and who
58:32 actually has a legitimate
58:33 case take i need a beer for 45 minutes
58:36 and take care of this
58:37 and again city codes littered with that
58:39 type of language so
58:41 i'm not too worried about the discretion
58:42 of the officer if that's the way we went
58:45 and and commissioner weiss that's a
58:47 great point i'd like to also point out
58:48 that our inspectors
58:50 you know sometimes the
58:53 the contractors will say to our
58:55 inspectors in the field hey i
58:57 you know i need to go a half an hour
58:58 over today because we got a late
59:00 delivery
59:01 and you know we're working our best to
59:03 try and get done on time
59:05 and the inspector will say okay sure so
59:08 you know
59:08 those kind of decisions are made in the
59:10 field all the time and
59:12 um the city doesn't have a problem with
59:14 uh with that sort of thing
59:16 where we have the problem is when people
59:19 surreptitiously are
59:20 you know doing stuff on a saturday that
59:22 they clearly shouldn't be
59:27 so where do the fines go
59:30 uh fines go into the general fund
59:34 at some point in the future i'd like to
59:36 change that into
59:37 you know some sort of a
59:40 nuisance abatement fund but that would
59:42 require
59:45 uh council authorization at some point
59:47 in the future
59:48 but right now fine's just going to the
59:50 general fund
59:55 so here's so so here's the deal
59:59 we can either um you guys can make a
1:00:01 motion
1:00:02 uh which you kind of almost got to but
1:00:05 then we had a lot
1:00:06 more dialogue um or um
1:00:10 you know we can uh bring this back your
1:00:14 meeting is the 12th of november
1:00:17 um and that would give
1:00:20 staff time to draft an amendment
1:00:23 um and i don't know if chris i know
1:00:25 chris has kind of got a schedule in
1:00:28 front of him
1:00:28 in terms of when he wants to get this
1:00:30 done but if it
1:00:32 bumped a month i'm not sure anybody's
1:00:35 going to turn into a pumpkin
1:00:37 um even though it's halloween
1:00:40 so you know i mean i think you have a
1:00:42 choice i don't want to i don't want to
1:00:44 have the commission feel like we've
1:00:45 pushed them through the door
1:00:47 so you guys can either work
1:00:50 together and figure out um any amendment
1:00:53 that you might want to propose and then
1:00:56 vote on it
1:00:57 or you can ask us to
1:01:00 uh bring you an alternative in a month
1:01:04 so first of all i'd like to know just
1:01:06 kind of
1:01:07 not not on a vote if anybody
1:01:10 uh is really wants to have an amendment
1:01:14 or if they like it the way it is let's
1:01:16 start there
1:01:18 so who wants to have amendments
1:01:21 to and who does not
1:01:30 then i'm going to make this really easy
1:01:31 i'm going to make a motion to propose an
1:01:33 amendment as keith has done because it
1:01:35 doesn't sound like there is a consensus
1:01:37 to have us kick it back to staff so i'm
1:01:39 going to make a proposal for a motion
1:01:41 and we can shoot it down and then we can
1:01:42 do the vote
1:01:44 ah yes that's up to you all right so
1:01:46 because
1:01:47 because the other thing is if i send by
1:01:49 kicking it back to staff
1:01:50 um because the question for me is really
1:01:52 like what staff prefer right because
1:01:55 what we want is to get the language
1:01:56 right to get the intent
1:01:58 right and so i haven't necessarily done
1:02:00 that in the
1:02:01 in the last like three minutes so if
1:02:03 staff is like yeah we're hearing you and
1:02:05 we want to take this on because we
1:02:06 wanted to find
1:02:07 the ancillary construction and that's
1:02:09 fine but if you don't then i'm happy to
1:02:11 make this motion and have it get voted
1:02:14 so it's kind of whatever works out
1:02:16 better because ultimately obviously this
1:02:18 is our recommendation we're passing
1:02:19 along
1:02:20 um our esteemed court reporter will
1:02:22 report that we know
1:02:23 um that there was a minority who
1:02:26 supported this and we'll see what
1:02:27 council thinks about it so
1:02:28 i am i'm going to propose um an
1:02:31 amendment
1:02:32 uh to
1:02:37 i'm gonna state an amendment uh
1:02:41 to there is no amendment on the floor um
1:02:43 an amendment to
1:02:44 um there's no motion on the floor you
1:02:48 can just make an emotion
1:02:50 any way you want all right then i'm
1:02:52 gonna make um
1:02:53 a motion to um
1:02:56 amend the findings of fact as proposed
1:02:59 to include
1:03:00 that uh any
1:03:05 any ancillary construction activities
1:03:08 on a work site outside
1:03:11 um and within an hour
1:03:15 of stay the stated hours of 7am to 6pm
1:03:18 will require 48 hours notice to the city
1:03:20 and community
1:03:21 as dictated in ordinance 2777
1:03:24 such as the removal of equipment from a
1:03:26 job site in the refueling of vehicles
1:03:30 do i have a second i second that
1:03:36 any other discussion from the other
1:03:38 three of you
1:03:39 us okay
1:03:43 emotion is uh on the floor um all those
1:03:46 in favor say aye
1:03:48 oh you can't do that can't do that keith
1:03:51 you have to take roll
1:03:53 get out your your little picture
1:04:00 and you're on mute
1:04:03 i owe you guys like two dollars all
1:04:05 right let's start with the motion maker
1:04:07 commissioner lewis yay uh
1:04:12 commissioner voice
1:04:16 commissioner carl
1:04:24 yay commissioner reinhardt
1:04:28 no and commission
1:04:32 chair probola no
1:04:36 that carries three to two
1:04:40 okay so with that
1:04:44 uh commissioner lewis do you expect the
1:04:48 um the
1:04:51 city to come but not the city to keith's
1:04:54 office
1:04:55 uh to come back with a proposal
1:04:58 i do not i expect our recommendation to
1:05:01 be passed through to council
1:05:03 to say that we this is the warning i
1:05:06 badly did gets passed along and in
1:05:09 between now and when this hits council's
1:05:11 docket
1:05:12 um keith if you guys want to brainstorm
1:05:14 what and better define those ancillary
1:05:17 construction activities obviously i
1:05:18 named two
1:05:19 um because i'm basing that off of the
1:05:21 document that i read from you guys but i
1:05:23 don't obviously don't have an in-depth
1:05:24 knowledge of what those are
1:05:25 and so allowing you guys that space to
1:05:28 say nope we're going to create a
1:05:29 definition and that makes it a lot
1:05:30 easier
1:05:31 for us um our esteemed officers to be
1:05:34 able to enforce
1:05:35 you know that's absolutely wonderful
1:05:37 that means you heard our
1:05:38 comments and you're going back to
1:05:39 council with a with a change and you
1:05:41 could obviously go back and say we're
1:05:42 sticking to our guns and
1:05:43 you know ppc and their novel thoughts
1:05:47 so i i don't need to see this again on
1:05:49 our dock and unless someone else has a
1:05:50 different feeling
1:05:51 no i was just uh wondering if the
1:05:54 languages you proposed
1:05:56 was the languages that you are expecting
1:05:59 or if you wanted
1:06:00 if there was a a problem in the planning
1:06:04 department that the the end result was
1:06:08 the same but the language could be
1:06:10 shifted a little bit you would be okay
1:06:11 with that
1:06:14 i am i think that if but again that
1:06:16 would leave staff to say that
1:06:18 they would they're aligning along our
1:06:20 three to two recommendations i don't
1:06:22 know what they are
1:06:23 well that's true but that's i mean you
1:06:26 would be comfortable if that's what they
1:06:28 did and decided
1:06:29 to go for it if they changed the
1:06:31 language just a little bit
1:06:32 but the concept was the same i just want
1:06:34 to be clear of that
1:06:36 okay okay so uh
1:06:39 moving right along
1:06:44 um uh i just wanted to since kristen
1:06:47 isn't here and she usually
1:06:49 what is the october 13th 2020 council
1:06:52 study session on the agenda for
1:06:57 uh deputy city administrator
1:07:01 um schneider there she is her box moved
1:07:04 i think she has a report out for you
1:07:10 thank you keith and good evening members
1:07:13 of the planning policy commission
1:07:16 um i just wanted to follow up on
1:07:20 the environmental board discussion that
1:07:24 council had and we are wanting
1:07:28 to make sure that we close the loop with
1:07:30 you after you have a discussion on a
1:07:31 topic
1:07:32 and so that you know uh how
1:07:36 that your recommendations and your
1:07:37 comments were received by council and
1:07:39 how those conversations went
1:07:41 at the council level so in regards to
1:07:44 environmental board i wanted to follow
1:07:46 up with you this evening and
1:07:48 um first start off by saying i think
1:07:52 has been said a couple of times tonight
1:07:53 about pushing items through
1:07:55 and so i wanted to say that i regret
1:07:58 that i think the environmental board
1:08:00 item felt as though pushed through
1:08:04 but i do think it's important for you to
1:08:06 also know that
1:08:08 the questions you raised and the
1:08:10 comments that you provided city council
1:08:13 they really valued those comments and
1:08:16 so uh the
1:08:19 the council had reviewed your
1:08:21 recommendations and the letter that you
1:08:23 provided
1:08:24 and asked that the additional questions
1:08:27 that you asked during your
1:08:28 discussions those answers will be
1:08:30 provided at the next council meeting and
1:08:33 the next council meeting where they're
1:08:35 talking about the environmental board
1:08:36 is this monday on october 26th
1:08:40 and that will be their second touch with
1:08:42 the environmental board so
1:08:44 following this meeting i'll send you
1:08:48 um i'll send the commission members a an
1:08:52 email with
1:08:53 a link to those items so you can see how
1:08:56 staff have
1:08:57 responded to the questions that you've
1:09:00 had given a little bit more time
1:09:02 and also invite you to
1:09:05 watch the council meeting on monday it's
1:09:08 almost all the agenda is almost all on
1:09:11 the environmental board
1:09:12 so um that should be uh
1:09:15 pretty easy to track if you're wanting
1:09:16 to tune in just for that item
1:09:19 then so
1:09:22 the answer's included in the packet
1:09:24 we'll also
1:09:25 come back to you at the next planning
1:09:28 policy commission to let you know how
1:09:30 that conversation
1:09:32 went at council on monday if you don't
1:09:34 have a chance to
1:09:35 watch the meeting so just wanted to
1:09:38 close loop with you on that i'll be
1:09:40 emailing like i said
1:09:41 uh a link to the packet with a response
1:09:44 to some of the
1:09:45 questions and comments that you raised
1:09:46 in your last meeting on the
1:09:47 environmental board topic
1:09:53 okay thank you for that um
1:09:58 so the calendar so by till the end of
1:10:00 the year we have two meetings
1:10:03 then october the 12th and then in
1:10:06 later in november november the 12th
1:10:11 so november the 12th is a sign code so
1:10:14 daniel kenny who's with ogden murphy
1:10:17 wallace who's
1:10:18 the city attorney's office we've had
1:10:22 him asked him to basically
1:10:26 update our sign code to be consistent
1:10:29 reid versus the town of gilbert which
1:10:32 basically says
1:10:33 you know your temporary signs need to be
1:10:36 content neutral
1:10:37 in other words you can't regulate a
1:10:39 politician
1:10:40 sign any differently than you would um
1:10:44 you know a church's sign or some other
1:10:47 sign that's going out in the right of
1:10:48 way so
1:10:49 so basically it turned everybody's
1:10:52 sign codes upside down and you know that
1:10:55 happened
1:10:56 quite a while ago i don't even remember
1:10:58 how many years ago we're
1:10:59 we're a little late to the um to the
1:11:02 uh the turnstile here so so anyway he's
1:11:05 going to go through that with you
1:11:07 there's not going to be draft code for
1:11:08 you to review yet so
1:11:10 in in the vein of trying to not push
1:11:13 things through you guys
1:11:14 in one touch this is this is an
1:11:17 opportunity where
1:11:19 uh there'll be a high level conversation
1:11:22 about what the
1:11:23 update to the sign code is trying to
1:11:24 accomplish
1:11:27 and then we'll bring something back to
1:11:28 you actually draft code
1:11:30 in the first quarter of next year so
1:11:33 that's what that looks like and then
1:11:34 uh december 10th so the old town
1:11:39 architectural standards for
1:11:41 single-family duplex zone
1:11:43 uh that you guys had the joint meeting
1:11:45 with development commission
1:11:46 so those that document will be back
1:11:49 before you guys
1:11:50 in its somewhat final form all right
1:11:54 so again um uh
1:11:57 that will be uh so that'll be um
1:12:00 hopefully
1:12:01 responsive to the conversations that
1:12:04 y'all had with dc um in the joint
1:12:07 meeting
1:12:08 so that's what you'll see with that
1:12:09 document and that
1:12:11 right now that's that's what we have um
1:12:14 on the docket for
1:12:15 for this year so
1:12:18 when we talk about the sign code are
1:12:22 i know that almost every other city has
1:12:25 already
1:12:26 updated changed or whatever it would be
1:12:29 nice to
1:12:30 kind of be able to see
1:12:33 generally what some of the other cities
1:12:35 have done which they
1:12:37 their attorneys have said uh are legal
1:12:40 the way it should be so um it would be
1:12:43 nice to know that so either the next
1:12:44 time or the
1:12:45 when it comes back to planning policy
1:12:48 would be nice to know that
1:12:51 i'll see if we can afford that
1:12:54 with the money that you get from the
1:12:58 construction chris is already creating
1:13:01 his special
1:13:03 chris grabowski vacation account for
1:13:06 that i mean i'm just kidding
1:13:07 all right so i heard pure cities
1:13:10 we'll uh we'll talk about pure cities
1:13:14 that it just would be you know kind of
1:13:16 interesting to hear that
1:13:18 i just have a thought i want to go back
1:13:21 to the
1:13:23 motion that joy made and that passed
1:13:28 that did that insinuate that
1:13:32 we passed and continued on with
1:13:36 what the city has done with the
1:13:38 amendment
1:13:40 or did we just approve the amendment
1:13:44 i think you you approved
1:13:47 an amendment to the city's
1:13:51 uh proposal so the proposed
1:13:55 code amendment that was in front of you
1:13:57 the amendment that you guys approved
1:14:00 would be an amendment to that
1:14:03 so in essence we haven't approved
1:14:08 the city's proposal with the amendment
1:14:13 just to be clear right
1:14:16 so i need to go back and make have a
1:14:19 motion to approve
1:14:21 uh the city's uh the
1:14:25 city's uh proposal with the assumption
1:14:28 that the amendment is going to be
1:14:31 included in it that seems like a crazy
1:14:35 thing but thinking about what we
1:14:37 approved i didn't think we approved
1:14:40 anything except the amendment so if you
1:14:43 would just make me happy and somebody
1:14:45 uh make a motion to approve what i just
1:14:49 i would really appreciate it i'd like to
1:14:51 make a motion to approve the finding
1:14:53 of a fact uh as amended
1:14:58 do i have a second
1:15:02 somebody seconded but seconded this is
1:15:05 janice carl
1:15:06 thank you any other discussion
1:15:11 motions approve well keep no take out
1:15:14 your piece of paper
1:15:17 commissioner lewis yay
1:15:21 commissioner voice yeah
1:15:25 commissioner carl yes
1:15:28 commissioner reinhard no
1:15:32 commissioner commissioner chair provola
1:15:35 yes okay great it passed
1:15:39 okay thank you okay i didn't want them
1:15:43 to come back and say you didn't approve
1:15:44 anything
1:15:46 um is there any other discussion among
1:15:48 the commissioners
1:15:51 on the agenda is an audience audience
1:15:53 comment
1:15:55 i need to ask doug if anybody signed up
1:15:58 to make any comments
1:16:01 nobody is signed up to make any comments
1:16:04 thank you
1:16:06 uh hearing nothing else i'm going to
1:16:10 close the the meeting at 7 46
1:16:14 and thank you for your continued
1:16:18 interest and
1:16:22 the smile on keith's face so thank you

Attendance

Council / Members (9)
Administration/Staff: Joan Probala
Chris Grabowski
Code Enforcement Joy Lewis Officer Janice Carle Doug Yormick
Assistant Planner Bill Rinehart Keith Niven
Director
CP&D Jason Voiss Andrea Snyder
Deputy City Administrator Commissioners Not Present: Ron Faul
Robin Beukers
Alternate