0:26
are you
0:30
Ron if I could get your attention at
0:35
seven o'clock and I would like to call
0:37
the meeting the joint meeting the
0:39
Planning Policy Commission and the
0:40
Development Commission we're officially
0:43
called to order great thank you
0:48
I'm going to switch directions here a
0:49
little bit because you're pointed that
0:50
way I'm so glad that all of you could
0:53
make it out here today my name is
0:55
Kristin Lisa and I'm a senior planner
0:58
with the development services department
0:59
tonight we are here to talk about how we
1:03
will update an approach updating and
1:06
developing new architectural standards
1:08
for Old Town so I'm gonna walk you
1:11
through a little imps would say
1:15
here we go so tonight we're gonna talk a
1:18
little bit about the project background
1:19
how we got here the areas that this
1:22
would apply to any engagement that we've
1:25
done thus far we'll talk about the
1:28
updates to the existing standards that
1:30
we have in place and then we'll talk
1:31
about discussions that we've had about
1:33
potential new standards for the
1:35
single-family duplex district which
1:37
would include all structures in there
1:38
single family and duplexes and then if
1:41
we have time we'll bring up some other
1:44
topics like gateways and accessory
1:46
dwelling units and additions there's a
1:49
lot to talk about
1:50
tonight and if we can't make it through
1:52
everything that's okay we're happy to
1:54
come back and continue the discussion
1:56
that's not a problem
1:58
I want to let you know kind of - why
2:00
you're here PPC has become very familiar
2:03
with Old Town between the update of the
2:07
old town suburbia plan and the old town
2:11
land use code amendments that are in
2:12
process and it will ultimately be making
2:16
a recommendation to City Council about
2:18
these standards and the Development
2:20
Commission went through the central
2:23
Issaquah architectural standards process
2:25
so you're familiar with how it works
2:26
what to look for how to implement what
2:29
kind of works for developers and the
2:31
Commission and staff and can help us
2:33
through that part of it so that's what
2:34
we brought you all together this is the
2:37
very first night that we talked about it
2:38
with you all we'll see how it goes wrong
2:40
way
2:42
we go so for those who have not been
2:46
involved since the beginning I'm going
2:49
in the Wayback Machine in 1999 we
2:52
adopted the old town sub area plan it
2:55
was not touched again until 2009 when we
2:59
were asked to move remove any references
3:02
to the bypass so that's all that was
3:05
done in 2013 we finished all of our work
3:09
a seven-year process on a developing a
3:13
central Issaquah plan and a central
3:15
Issaquah central Issaquah development
3:16
and design standards so by 2014 council
3:19
said enough we need to go back and focus
3:22
on Old Town they put forward three
3:25
council goals two had to do with traffic
3:28
and circulation in Old Town and one had
3:30
to do with Old Town vitality so in 2015
3:34
mayor Fred Butler appointed a task force
3:36
and they focused primarily on the
3:41
commercial areas of Old Town and came up
3:43
with recommendations the recommendations
3:46
included number one update the old town
3:50
plan and the old town design standards
3:52
to create a consistent and well-designed
3:55
streetscape or front street and work
4:00
with the Downtown Association to help
4:02
them increase partnerships with
4:03
community groups and regional groups so
4:05
we continue to work with dia in 2017 we
4:10
adopted a downtown streetscape plan
4:12
that's slowly but surely being
4:14
implemented and we are now doing we did
4:20
the Old Town plan and now we're working
4:22
on the design standards and some code
4:24
amendments
4:27
the old town plan during that process we
4:31
held four public meetings we took it we
4:35
took it to council council saw the task
4:36
force recommendations City Council said
4:39
this is great but we need a little bit
4:40
more focus on residential because it's
4:42
not talked about at all so when we began
4:45
updating the Old Town plan there was a
4:46
lot of focus there because there had not
4:48
been before so we had four open houses
4:50
one online survey in which we got over
4:54
450 responses and then we had six
4:56
Planning Policy commission meetings and
4:58
six City Council meetings
5:02
part of the plan we have our goals or
5:05
policies or vision we also had
5:07
implementation actions one of the goals
5:09
said we want to preserve the maintain
5:12
the traditional character and scale of
5:14
the cultural and business district in
5:16
Sunset neighborhoods while allowing them
5:18
to still grow and evolve policies were
5:21
update the CBD development and
5:23
architectural standards and update the
5:26
multifamily high development in our
5:28
Casilla architectural standards along
5:30
east sunset way in the plan we included
5:34
an action plan first action item for
5:36
under immediate actions there are three
5:38
different ones
5:39
immediate action short term actions and
5:41
longer-term actions under immediate
5:43
actions it said new architectural
5:46
standards and design guidelines in CBD
5:48
MF h which is multi-family high east on
5:52
east sunset way only and single-family
5:55
duplex zones though currently we have we
6:01
have design standards Oldtown design
6:03
standards which apply to the areas that
6:04
you see here they is this work if it
6:08
does so they apply to the cultural and
6:12
business district right here
6:14
multifamily high district an East sunset
6:18
way only they also apply to the
6:21
multifamily medium district so you may
6:23
recall when I had said the
6:24
implementation actions and the policies
6:26
did not include updating MFM but right
6:29
now our plan is to leave that in there
6:32
thinking of us an oversight we plan on
6:34
leaving that in there unless we hear
6:36
otherwise so we're just going to include
6:38
it as part of our conversation for now
6:41
so this is what our standards look like
6:44
they were adopted in 2000 or 2001 do you
6:47
tell someone they were updated this is
6:49
what they look like they cover things
6:51
like windows roof lines articulation
6:54
walkthroughs or pass throughs and that
6:58
kind of thing those really just need to
7:00
be refreshed and updated the old town
7:02
plan also says to preserve residential
7:04
neighborhoods preserve the scale and
7:07
character of the residential
7:08
neighborhoods while ensuring a variety
7:10
of housing that meets the community
7:11
needs the goal adopt architectural
7:14
standards and updated development
7:16
standards consistent with the character
7:17
and style of existing residences again
7:20
the implementation action says to do it
7:23
for the single-family duplex zone this
7:25
was picked because this is really what
7:27
we're the oldest part that is the
7:30
coldest part of the Township was located
7:32
and it has this grid system and it feels
7:34
like it is connected to the cultural
7:36
business district and the multifamily
7:37
streets that is why that was selected so
7:41
should we do
7:43
single-family include single-family
7:45
duplex that is all of the goldish area
7:50
it's here it would be included in the
7:54
standards
7:57
their outreach an august 29th and 2019
8:01
we had a stakeholder luncheon we had
8:03
nine people attend it was a good pretty
8:06
good mix of property owners business
8:08
owners and people residences people who
8:10
lived here and what we talked about both
8:13
things we talked about the CBD and
8:15
multi-family the outtake from that was
8:17
that the standards are pretty good right
8:18
now
8:18
what we have is good they address the
8:21
right elements we just need they need to
8:23
be updated and refreshed we also talked
8:25
about single family with single family
8:27
the biggest concerns seem to be with the
8:29
recent increases in height and bulk are
8:32
the primary factors that affect
8:33
character they like the idea of
8:35
diversity in the neighborhood but they
8:37
want to maintain the residential old
8:38
towns that collect a character that's
8:40
there on January 11th on a very cold
8:43
very rainy and windy day we had about 40
8:47
people show up for a walking tour and a
8:50
workshop it was really fun why we were
8:55
there we made a brief presentation and
8:57
then we talked about these different
8:59
elements which we'll talk about in just
9:00
a little bit we all they all met in
9:03
subgroup in smaller groups and then at
9:06
the end of the presentation got up and
9:07
talked about what they thought and this
9:10
is kind of how it played out there this
9:12
is what they worked on so I am going to
9:15
hand it over now to our consultant
9:19
Samantha Souter who's with meta urban
9:20
design she has done this type of work
9:22
before and she's going to walk you
9:24
through the workshop she's going to walk
9:26
you through some of our thoughts on the
9:27
existing standards and then what we
9:29
heard from the workshop and we'd really
9:30
like to get your feedback tonight on are
9:32
we headed in the right direction is this
9:35
something that can be implementable does
9:37
this do what the plan tells us to do
9:39
that's what we're looking for tonight
9:40
okay
9:44
thanks Kristen first of all I'm really
9:50
excited to be here so thank you for
9:52
welcoming me back I think this is a
9:55
great community so I'm happy to be part
9:58
of this effort I think it's really
10:01
exciting so I just wanted to start with
10:04
that so Kristen talked about you know
10:07
what we can't hear me is that better
10:10
thank you Kristen talked about what
10:13
we're doing I want to give you a little
10:15
more insight into how we're approaching
10:17
this effort so the the primary objective
10:21
is we want to have a final document that
10:24
is usable we want both staff to be able
10:28
to implement it and we want applicants
10:30
property owners to understand what the
10:33
regulations are that's the primary
10:35
objective of what we're doing here with
10:37
this effort to do that we're going to
10:39
tweak a few topics Kristen mentioned
10:42
that there's a zoning code update that's
10:45
in the process right now so we want to
10:46
ensure that the new standards are in
10:49
alignment with the new zoning updates
10:52
also we want to make sure that we're not
10:54
getting to down the weeds of having
10:57
guidelines versus standards so without
11:00
going on a tangent standards are very
11:03
cut and dry it's a yes or no it's do
11:05
this not that guidelines can be a little
11:08
squishy or a little more subjective so
11:11
at this point we want to go down the
11:13
path of having something that's really
11:15
cut and dry again this goes to the
11:17
implementation focus and the the
11:19
usability aspect especially with the
11:23
single-family area this is uncharted
11:26
waters for Issaquah no other
11:28
single-family area in the city has
11:30
standards right now so that's why we
11:32
want to take a step in that direction
11:34
see how it works and then the plan is
11:37
within a year to revise them and update
11:40
them if needed potentially add new
11:42
guidelines at that time or recalibrate
11:45
depending on how these new standards are
11:47
received
11:50
let's see and finally part of the
11:52
creating a usable document is a
11:55
refreshing refreshing the document so
11:58
Kristen showed you some pictures of what
12:00
it looks like now there's been a lot of
12:03
changes just in the profession in the
12:05
past 20 years so we want to make sure
12:07
that it's in alignment with what we see
12:09
throughout the country in terms of best
12:11
practices for standards and guidelines
12:13
does this make sense from an overall
12:15
perspective what we're trying to do okay
12:17
great um in your packet we included an
12:23
outline and from the highest level most
12:29
of what you see in that outline is not
12:31
new content it's taking the existing
12:33
standards and reorganizing them in a way
12:36
again so it's it's more usable for the
12:39
bo staff and the end user so on the
12:42
screen you can see the gray box purpose
12:45
and applicability and then part one all
12:47
that is existing content I'll go through
12:51
a couple tweaks to that content in the
12:54
next couple slides but the biggest
12:58
change for part one is instead of having
13:00
a chapter for the CBD and a chapter for
13:03
multifamily we're separating those into
13:06
four so there's a general site design
13:08
general building design and then
13:10
specific standards for CBD and
13:13
multi-family so if you're familiar with
13:15
the existing standards you're probably
13:18
aware that about half of the guidelines
13:20
are repeated between CBD and
13:23
multi-family but there are some minor
13:25
inconsistencies between the two and that
13:27
just is as you update the document over
13:30
time or as you're drafting it if you
13:31
have the same standard in two places it
13:34
can get kind of complicated to make sure
13:36
that they're saying the same thing so
13:38
that's what we're seeing is just kind of
13:40
a best practice to avoid that repetition
13:42
only say something once and then have
13:45
some cross references and then again if
13:49
this I think the most exciting part is
13:51
this new content that we're talking
13:53
about which is part two and that's shown
13:55
in pink we'll talk more about that in a
13:58
moment so I'm just gonna march through
14:01
these overall
14:03
chapters four part one and I'll point
14:05
out the topics that need some refinement
14:08
are some tweaking just so you're
14:10
perfectly aware of what's changing and
14:12
what's not changing you'll see the
14:15
topics in pink are the ones I'm just
14:17
going to highlight as we march through
14:19
the outline the first one is gateways so
14:24
in the plan it talks about having these
14:25
gateways and then the existing guidance
14:28
in the standards I think needs a little
14:30
revisiting so if we have time at the end
14:33
of the presentation we'll talk about
14:35
that in depth today
14:36
if not we'll come back and have a deeper
14:39
conversation because we want to make
14:41
sure that we're we're getting that that
14:44
topic right the second one I want to
14:46
point out is the landscape elements
14:49
Kristin mentioned that there's a
14:50
streetscape plan we want to look at both
14:53
of these documents together to make sure
14:55
that they're working together again we
14:57
don't want them to be in conflict and
14:59
since the streetscape plan is relatively
15:02
new we want to look at the section in
15:04
the guideline and the standards that has
15:07
very similar content and make sure
15:09
they're saying the same thing or that
15:11
they're supporting each other we don't
15:13
want to have conflicts we don't want to
15:15
have redundancy we want to make sure
15:17
that each tool is kind of functioning as
15:20
needed so that's something we're going
15:23
to look at as a group the I think
15:28
biggest topic for staff in terms of
15:31
challenge for implementation is color so
15:34
that's a big topic we want to get your
15:36
input on today this is some pages from
15:40
the existing standards right now so it
15:43
talks about how to use color has some of
15:46
these you know a narrative explaining
15:49
why this is important to Old Town and
15:51
then how to use it in terms of having a
15:53
primary and secondary color but then if
15:58
you want to figure out what colors to
15:59
use you actually have to go into the
16:01
planning department and you have to look
16:03
at these boards so that's pretty
16:06
difficult both for staff and for
16:08
applicants to figure out what colors are
16:11
allowed to use um we had a good laugh
16:14
when we looked at this
16:17
so what we heard when we had the the
16:20
stakeholder lunch is that the colors
16:22
aren't a problem
16:24
it's just how they're being implemented
16:26
and in that communication between staff
16:28
and the applicant we want to make sure
16:30
that the process is easier for everybody
16:33
to use and there's no ambiguity so this
16:36
was just taking you know eyedropper of
16:38
the existing palette and tiling it up
16:40
here just so you could get a better idea
16:42
of what we're talking about because this
16:44
is pretty hard to understand even you
16:47
know for us looking looking at it
16:50
another thing that we heard from the
16:52
community is they want this to be
16:54
updated and looked at more frequently so
16:57
I think that what we heard was probably
16:59
every five years or something they want
17:01
to revisit the color palette just to
17:03
make sure that you know depending on how
17:06
development trends are going that the
17:08
the color palette is in line with
17:11
community priorities and values so just
17:14
to orient you we have the allowed colors
17:17
these would be allowed for what we're
17:19
calling primary so just the cladding of
17:21
the building or trim or accent features
17:24
and then the roof colors which it's kind
17:27
of hard to see on this projection but
17:30
there are some Reds and some blues in
17:32
there
17:32
but then at the bottom are the
17:34
prohibited colors which the standards
17:37
talk about neon and metallic colors they
17:39
don't want to see and again this applies
17:42
to the current CBD and multi-family area
17:46
and the I think the last topic that
17:50
we're tweaking is scale and massing for
17:53
CBD part of the the land-use update or
17:58
the the zoning ordinance update is to
18:00
lower the height so right now it can
18:02
buildings can go up to 60 feet so the
18:05
current standards have above two storeys
18:07
you have to do these upper storey
18:09
setbacks so I believe every story above
18:12
two feet your upper floors have to be
18:15
setback six feet so what we're thinking
18:18
makes sense is to do away with that
18:21
because now instead of going up to 60
18:23
feet you can only go up to 45 feet and
18:26
of how many stories was it before
18:30
worries before but now so it was 65 feet
18:33
sorry correction
18:34
it was 65 feet with the step backs and
18:38
45 feet I believe is a base and now what
18:41
we're proposing is 40 feet maximum
18:44
height so or four three stories
18:47
whichever is shorter so that's why we
18:49
think the upper story step-back tool
18:51
doesn't really apply anymore based on
18:53
that that zoning update
18:57
then lastly in terms of multifamily once
19:00
we reach FL some of the topics to move
19:03
some topics into the site design and the
19:06
building design this is what's left and
19:09
we're not proposing any updates or
19:11
tweaks to the existing multifamily
19:13
districts before I move to the
19:17
single-family topics do you guys have
19:20
any questions or comments just about the
19:22
overall organization and the approach
19:27
all right so again the the single-family
19:33
standards would apply to that that gold
19:36
area and this is the single-family
19:40
duplexes owning but it you're moving
19:42
around old town it's the single-family
19:44
neighborhood area I know sometimes that
19:46
can be confusing and this applies to new
19:50
construction and it we expect it will
19:54
apply to some additions and possibly
19:57
renovations but we want to get your
20:00
input on where exactly do we want to
20:03
draw that line if it's a you know small
20:06
modest addition do the standards need to
20:09
apply or are we talking about you know
20:11
if most of the house is changing is that
20:14
when the standards need to need to apply
20:18
we'll talk a little bit more about that
20:20
later
20:21
and again this approach we're calling it
20:25
this slow-burn approach where we want to
20:28
start first with the most important
20:30
topics identify what is most important
20:33
to the community and to you all and to
20:36
write really clear strong standards to
20:38
ensure that that happens and then
20:40
revisit it in a year to see if there's
20:43
any refinements or any other guidelines
20:47
we can add to that these are the topics
20:52
we talked to the community at the
20:54
meeting we simplified it into these
20:57
three buckets overall size and shape
20:59
scaling elements and then the site so
21:02
pretty much everything but the building
21:04
and I'll walk you through these and
21:06
explain what we heard from the community
21:08
and then what we're planning on doing
21:09
with the feedback so in terms of
21:13
architectural style we went on the walk
21:16
audit and we looked at the range of
21:19
houses throughout the neighborhood and
21:21
this is why I think Old Town is so great
21:24
it's almost as gallery of of houses of
21:27
you know American architecture you have
21:31
the the older Pioneer style house down
21:34
you know through the beautiful craftsman
21:37
some really great mid-century examples
21:39
and then you can see some of the
21:41
the newer construction has some of those
21:44
odd are ODEs to the these earlier styles
21:49
that we see as a project team we were
21:52
looking at different styles and tried to
21:56
see if there was any one predominant
21:57
style of architecture and we realized
22:01
that the predominant character is that
22:03
it's eclectic
22:04
there's a mix and that's really cool so
22:07
as we talk to the community about that
22:09
what we heard is that they don't want to
22:11
regulate style I'm so I know some of you
22:14
are familiar with the central it's a
22:17
quoi standards where it actually
22:19
regulates a style you must choose one of
22:21
these what we heard is that in Old Town
22:24
that's probably not appropriate because
22:26
it's so eclectic but the community wants
22:29
to focus on the most important aspects
22:31
to maintain the character and I think
22:37
the biggest thing we heard was that
22:38
massing is probably the most important
22:42
tool to maintain this character people
22:46
want to prohibit you know just having a
22:48
really big box like this and they'd
22:51
rather see something with a little more
22:53
nuance a little more variety in the
22:55
overall shape so we talk about that in
22:57
terms of scale reduction or mass
23:00
reduction in terms of the standards
23:04
we're working right now to figure out
23:05
exactly what does that mean how wide can
23:08
your building be before you need to have
23:10
a shift in plain how long can your roof
23:12
be before you need to have an accent
23:15
gable or something like that those are
23:17
topics we're exploring right now but I
23:19
think having some of these standards
23:22
codified is in line with what we heard
23:24
from the community we also talked about
23:28
roof types and looked at a variety of
23:30
precedent imagery showing multiple
23:34
different types of roofs roofs
23:36
you know steep roofs shallow roofs and
23:39
everything in between and what we heard
23:43
was the only thing that really doesn't
23:44
fit in our flat roofs and what we heard
23:49
is that flat roofs are more in line with
23:50
this modern architecture and while these
23:54
are really great
23:55
beautiful examples it's it's out of
23:57
character with Old Town so we heard
24:00
pretty clearly that people want to
24:02
prohibit having flat roofs
24:06
we talked about materials and some
24:09
standards get really specific in terms
24:12
of materials what we heard was that it's
24:15
not so much the actual material whether
24:17
it's wood or cement board or metal but
24:22
it's more the appearance and then having
24:25
durable materials those are the
24:27
priorities and people want to allow
24:31
flexibility to ensure that we're not
24:33
creating standards that are overly
24:35
burdensome for people we want to make
24:38
sure that the suite of materials that
24:40
people can choose our cost-effective and
24:43
practical
24:45
so color again this is the one topic
24:49
that I think we had the widest range of
24:52
feedback from the community
24:53
some people said no don't regulate it
24:56
this is a community of artists and we
24:59
want to celebrate that other people had
25:02
a little more feedback in terms of you
25:04
know perhaps we want to explore limiting
25:06
the amount of colors or prohibiting the
25:09
really bright neon or fluorescent colors
25:14
so we we looked at the color palette or
25:18
how the central Issaquah regulates color
25:21
and without going too much down that
25:25
road basically it allows earth tones in
25:28
central Issaquah but anything but the
25:32
pure hue so as long as you have a little
25:34
bit of white or gray or black into the
25:36
color as long as it's a little more
25:38
subdued you can can do it
25:42
so that might be something we want to
25:44
explore that that might be a balance
25:46
between you know letting people have fun
25:50
with with color without overly
25:52
regulating it
25:55
some specifics that we did here with
25:57
color is that especially for doors or
26:00
some accent materials or trims people
26:03
aren't too concerned about allowing some
26:06
of these brighter and Wilder colors and
26:08
people thought this might even be fun to
26:11
let people you know express themselves
26:14
this way whoops in terms of having these
26:20
bright colors as the primary color of
26:22
the house I think this is where we've
26:23
got a little more of that mixed feedback
26:25
so again this might be where we want to
26:29
explore preventing those overly bright
26:32
or you know the basic hue of a color and
26:34
you have to have something a little more
26:36
subdued if you're talking about the
26:38
primary color and I think people for the
26:42
most part said that they want to avoid
26:45
this multicolored kind of you know
26:48
rainbow treatment of a house while this
26:52
might be appropriate in some places it
26:54
might be a departure from from the
26:56
character that we see in Old Town so
26:59
this could be a relatively easy thing to
27:01
regulate by saying you know if you have
27:03
a face of a building you can't have you
27:06
know one two three four five six seven
27:09
seven different colors you might say you
27:11
can do one you know possibly two for the
27:14
the overall cladding color in terms of
27:19
windows what we heard was people don't
27:22
want to overly regulate size or
27:25
detailing or style but they do want to
27:28
require some windows and doors on that
27:32
street facing front of the building
27:34
sorry I keep getting a little
27:38
explanation so we looked at you know we
27:43
can regulate amount of transparency and
27:46
people thought that that might be a
27:47
little too much detail for for Old Town
27:50
in terms of driveways and garages I
27:53
think we got pretty clear feedback that
27:56
if there's an alley access for the lot
28:00
that people want to see the vehicular
28:02
access they want to see the driveway and
28:04
the garage facing the alley
28:06
so in this little drawing the garage is
28:09
in pink and there's a driveway going off
28:11
the alley people want to ensure that
28:14
this is the character because they want
28:17
to emphasize the street front and the
28:20
character of the street and that human
28:22
oriented design knowing that old town
28:26
has a lot of variety and and nuance to
28:29
the black pattern there are some lots
28:32
that don't have alley access so in those
28:35
conditions we talked about what is the
28:37
most appropriate way to have garages and
28:40
driveways and we heard that these two
28:42
examples on the left are probably the
28:44
the most supported examples where the
28:48
garage is either set back behind the
28:51
house so as you're standing on the
28:53
street or the sidewalk it's not you're
28:55
not perceiving it so much or it could be
28:59
part of the house but you still have you
29:03
know a nice porch entry or a you know
29:05
human oriented design feature that feels
29:07
more prominent to the house we heard
29:11
that this example where the garage is
29:13
the first thing it's in front of the
29:15
house seemed to be out of character with
29:18
what people want to see so I think
29:21
people want to discourage that when when
29:23
possible
29:25
we talked about front yards and the size
29:28
of front yards so I'm sure you guys are
29:31
familiar with the zoning requires a
29:33
10-foot minimum setback from the
29:36
sidewalk but when we walked around and
29:38
looked at houses we saw that there were
29:40
some blocks that have a very wide range
29:42
of up setback so you can see some that
29:46
are you know right around that that
29:48
minimum some that go up to 45 feet and
29:52
then there are some blocks so for
29:53
instance this is alder between third and
29:55
fifth that have a pretty consistent
29:58
setback so most of the houses on this
30:01
block are set back about 45 feet from
30:04
the sidewalk so we talked about whether
30:07
or not this matters if people want to
30:09
preserve this character we got some
30:12
mixed feedback I think some people felt
30:14
like this was more important than others
30:16
I think what we did here is if people
30:19
wanted to preserve this to still allow
30:22
some sort of flexibility for instance if
30:24
more than 50% of the houses on the block
30:28
have a consistent setback maybe your
30:30
house you know must be set back within 5
30:33
feet either direction or something like
30:35
that I think is probably in line with
30:37
with what we heard in terms of front
30:41
yards and landscapes people I think this
30:44
was probably one of the most important
30:46
things is to ensure that there are clear
30:48
sidewalks from the sidewalk or clear
30:51
walkways from the sidewalk to the front
30:53
door and then front doors facing the
30:55
streets there are some some groups in
30:58
our discussions that wanted to require
31:00
front porches some people wanted to
31:02
encourage or incentivize it I think
31:05
requiring it might be a little too far
31:07
but I think it's noteworthy that some
31:10
groups thought it's it's that important
31:12
that that's something to discuss
31:16
in terms of fencing people didn't want
31:19
to overly regulate fencing they thought
31:22
you know whatever you want to build your
31:24
fence out of is is fine then the main
31:27
thing we heard was they didn't want to
31:30
see privacy fences so fences above six
31:32
feet they didn't want to see those
31:34
between the sidewalk and the building so
31:37
with zoning right now as long as it
31:39
abides by the setbacks you can legally
31:42
build those so they want to ensure that
31:44
you see the building not the privacy
31:47
fence and in terms of natural elements
31:51
and pervious surfaces so right now
31:54
zoning allows up to 50% impervious so in
31:58
theory per zoning you can pave your
32:01
front yard
32:01
we heard that people want some sort of
32:04
natural elements in the front yard they
32:05
don't want to see a front yard that's
32:07
completely hardscapes
32:11
so that's the summary of the single
32:14
family and kind of what we're thinking
32:16
about doing with those topics do you
32:18
guys have any thoughts or comments about
32:19
that before we move on to these other
32:21
two topics was there anything that was
32:25
mentioned that you said there's no way
32:27
especially you know DC since you've
32:29
worked with this kind of thing before is
32:31
is there anything that we talked about
32:33
that you think there is no way that
32:35
there that the city could regulate that
32:37
or enforce those things that we brought
32:39
up and I just quick note for those who
32:43
are here that are part of the audience
32:45
there will be time for audience comments
32:47
as well after this so you have time to
32:48
speak as well but is there anything in
32:52
there that you said this this isn't
32:53
enforceable or this isn't manageable or
32:56
why would you do that I mean we want
32:58
your input too high yeah not so much
33:02
unenforceable or a great problem but I
33:04
want to focus on what was said about
33:06
guidelines versus requirements I think
33:09
in the existing standards you have
33:11
something like each section is broken
33:13
into required and recommended is that
33:16
right encourage to encourage right so I
33:20
just wanted to mention that in the
33:21
central Issaquah guide our parallel for
33:24
that would have been appropriate and
33:26
inappropriate and I think in general we
33:28
found that it was useful to have the
33:30
inappropriate sections that were more
33:32
like guidelines really than were like
33:35
hard requirements if you don't include
33:39
the guidelines at all I wonder if you
33:41
may include some of that information up
33:43
in the intent section because we I think
33:46
we found that it was helpful to be able
33:47
to have some guidance there more than
33:52
simply the prescriptive requirements
33:54
yeah that's a great comment and exactly
33:58
what we're doing in terms of guidelines
34:00
for the existing ones I think we still
34:02
need to figure out because there are
34:03
some that have those encouraged
34:06
statements but once we get into the you
34:09
know the meat and the specifics we're
34:11
definitely going to want to make sure
34:12
that we're calibrated correctly so
34:15
that's a really great feedback to have
34:21
alright I'll move on to the other topic
34:23
I thought I guess on on the building
34:26
materials it sounded like you said you
34:27
wanted to leave that open and not
34:29
regulate those and then and it brought
34:33
the question okay if somebody came in
34:35
and said I want to do a you know a
34:36
plywood faced house or something and is
34:40
that just fall under eclectic then or or
34:43
if you're trying to regulate roofs and
34:45
colors and everything else can you leave
34:48
that open and have it work yeah we want
34:52
to make sure that we want to create some
34:54
you know barriers and I would say that
34:58
plywood probably isn't that durable of a
35:00
material so we'll have some language
35:03
about you know making sure it's can hold
35:07
up over time in this climate and that
35:09
kind of thing so I think we'll have
35:11
enough guide guidance in there to deny a
35:14
plywood house but I like the way you're
35:17
thinking you know and I did have some
35:19
phone calls and there were comments at
35:21
the at the neighborhood meeting where
35:24
they were concerns that if we excuse me
35:27
regulate materials that they don't want
35:29
them to be expensive totally on board
35:31
with that but we do want to make sure
35:33
that we want people to be able to stay
35:35
in their homes for a long time so the
35:36
more durable the material the longer
35:38
that that's gonna last so it's a balance
35:41
but yeah good point so here's another
35:44
point to that I grew up on in Lake
35:46
Marcel Duvall there's quite a few log
35:49
cabin houses would those be appropriate
35:52
in Old Town I wouldn't think so and that
35:55
is durable material yeah that's a good
35:59
point
36:00
is log cabin a style
36:03
or is it a material I mean you probably
36:05
probably but it's cedar shake it's a
36:10
further extension of that question of
36:12
saying even if it fits something that
36:14
people find pleasing is this what we
36:15
want to have in the community which is
36:17
kind of how some of these discussions
36:18
got started for me you start to say a
36:22
lot of things about being eclectic a
36:24
giving room but on that same tone then
36:28
with setbacks you start saying well
36:31
we're gonna regulate it by Street I mean
36:33
I just I think that your some of your
36:35
decisions have to be a little more broad
36:37
you can't say on one Street we allow
36:39
this and then on another we don't and
36:42
still have that eclectic we want people
36:44
to feel comfortable in this artist
36:45
community so I'm seeing some conflicting
36:47
thoughts right now and I think that goes
36:50
to that point of materials of saying
36:51
either there's something that doesn't
36:53
fit this vibe or we're going to say no
36:56
we want to see what we get and then see
36:58
are we getting a lot of issues and then
37:00
go back to it which kind of then defers
37:02
back to the whole point of why we
37:03
started this so I do think there's some
37:05
cleaning up that needs to happen as far
37:06
as the do's and do nots right now it's a
37:09
little bit loose and then you start to
37:10
say except that if you're on this street
37:12
and we're gonna have this exact
37:13
guideline well you know if someone wants
37:16
to put pavers and it looks very nice and
37:18
they have a fountain then they decided
37:19
this is where their kids are gonna ride
37:20
their bicycles but someone else prefers
37:22
grass that's their property I mean you
37:24
need to have very clear lines of saying
37:26
this is or isn't okay in the sense that
37:30
it's it is going to breathe and have a
37:33
life and you have to allow those
37:35
homeowners to be able to do what they
37:38
want in a sense so having the do nots is
37:41
very important because that allows the
37:43
do I mean you buy by having it vary so
37:47
much on one hand but then not in another
37:49
I think it's a little tricky it's a good
37:53
point
37:53
so how would you guys respond to the
37:56
log-cabin do you think that should be
37:58
allowed or do you think that that is
38:00
wine I think it shouldn't be myself I
38:03
think it's out of character for what
38:04
we've seen yeah but I can also see cedar
38:07
shake being used as an accent on a wall
38:09
in a way that looks very nice and
38:11
thinking of the home that's over at the
38:13
circle over on the lake that was built
38:15
in the last couple years
38:16
that has a very beautiful field that I
38:19
don't know that we would say this is not
38:21
allowed and if it isn't then it needs to
38:23
be very specifically called out just the
38:26
same way that we did we and our other
38:28
and our other guidelines but it doesn't
38:30
sound like we're going that way with it
38:31
with Old Town so you have to be able to
38:33
say we are going to be more eclectic
38:35
with that and this is what will then be
38:36
okay I guess the point that I'm trying
38:38
to figure out is we're talking about
38:39
having a an eclectic part of town that's
38:44
I guess the word artistry was used yet
38:47
when I Drive around it seems much more
38:48
uniform than that so where is like to
38:51
Joy's point where is that standard you
38:54
know because again I don't really know
38:56
when I Drive through it I see much more
38:57
of a uniform older part of the city but
39:01
when I hear eclectic and artistry I
39:03
think of you know Lombardi Street and
39:05
the streets like that or natural colored
39:08
or like you know Capitol Hill places
39:12
that where it is actually prominent much
39:15
more murals you know a lot of different
39:17
ways to display that and I think to even
39:20
in your modern examples harken to older
39:24
architecture Craftsman style and things
39:26
like that so it's easy to say that we
39:28
don't want something that's boxy flat
39:31
roof that's a good start but your modern
39:34
examples harken to a vintage vibe which
39:36
really gets to the heart of what we want
39:38
to preserve an old town so maybe we need
39:40
to think about how do we preserve that
39:42
and that is with those guidelines rather
39:43
than saying well we hope that you do it
39:46
this way and I would think color would
39:48
play a large part of that a big part of
39:50
that materials
39:53
so you're thinking having more specifics
39:56
in terms of allowed or would you want to
39:58
go down the road of encourage materials
40:00
or a loud versus prohibited we've I
40:03
remember from our of multiple meetings
40:05
on these topics we found that the
40:07
community really supported limiting and
40:10
calling out what was and wasn't okay we
40:12
didn't find that there was a movement
40:14
from the public saying there's too much
40:17
were being stifled we found it was the
40:19
opposite people were not liking the new
40:21
developments that they were that we were
40:22
getting so I would lean more towards
40:24
exploring how do we define rather
40:27
then again that kind of concept of less
40:30
guideline and more saying this is what
40:33
you can't I can't use but that again
40:34
being said is that it's very important
40:36
that we keep a character without pricing
40:41
people out of homes we want to keep old
40:43
town affordable and we want people to be
40:45
able to age in place as well
40:47
so if you need to take out your steps
40:49
and put in a ramp that should be allowed
40:51
it shouldn't say well that you know your
40:54
steps were grandfathered in but now
40:55
there's a separate code and you can't do
40:56
this or that we want to make it more
40:58
affordable for people to age in place
41:00
and that means having some looser
41:01
standards with how something is facing
41:04
the street for instance that's great
41:13
materials to to Jason's point about the
41:16
log cabin it would be easier I think for
41:21
us to tackle the do nots than the do's
41:24
because we don't know what the future
41:26
trends may look like because as they are
41:29
emerging but we do know what we do not
41:32
want in terms of materials in standards
41:36
and if someone does approach that
41:38
boundary to have maybe a review of that
41:43
because maybe it would be appropriate to
41:45
have a log cabin style home in Old Town
41:49
if it's designed in a way that looks
41:53
very similar and and is eclectic but it
41:58
matches the neighborhood right so I
41:59
don't want to necessarily say you can't
42:01
absolutely have this style but if it
42:04
approaches that then maybe it going for
42:07
a review and say ok we can look at that
42:09
but in terms of building materials I
42:12
know that there are some building
42:13
materials used up in the highlands I
42:15
don't think would be appropriate for Old
42:17
Town because they just don't hold up and
42:20
these are developers that have said
42:22
these materials will hold up no problem
42:24
and they're they're failing so I think
42:29
we need to be very careful about
42:31
articulating what doesn't work for all
42:34
towns so we don't get this stuff into
42:36
old town and have a devalue or property
42:39
yes also in the central Issaquah guide
42:42
we did break down into appropriate and
42:44
inappropriate sections for each section
42:47
that we had and we found I think that it
42:49
was easier to specify the inappropriate
42:51
than the appropriate what would you guys
42:54
classify as inappropriate if you could I
42:59
don't know if stucco would look good I
43:01
mean stucco I guess if it's done
43:03
appropriately both Gables and it could
43:08
possibly but I would think stucco might
43:10
be something that would look a little
43:12
look a little out of uniformity from Old
43:15
Town like a statement regarding durable
43:18
materials and natural materials and
43:20
there's a sustainability plus there in
43:23
terms of the durability of the materials
43:25
so that's a good statement I felt a
43:27
little uncomfortable about the final
43:29
citing example I saw up there yeah it
43:33
was a vinyl I think suckle is a great
43:38
example of a material that may not be as
43:39
durable because a lot of is dependent on
43:41
the application process by the
43:43
contractor so it involves a lot of
43:46
quality carpet craftsmanship I also want
43:49
to comment something about mentioned
43:51
earlier regarding porches I would
43:53
probably my personal opinion would be
43:56
the fact that porches would be something
43:57
that's difficult to regulate and I don't
43:59
know that that's something worth
44:00
regulating but because it is an added
44:02
construction cost you know not everyone
44:06
may be spending as much time on the
44:07
porches these days I think you know part
44:09
of our goal is to try to give community
44:10
out there involved or I'd encourage
44:11
involvement participation and events go
44:14
into the beach and you know now we're
44:18
we're all short on time right I mean in
44:20
our busy lives so I think requirement
44:23
porches would be a would be a very
44:25
difficult difficult task from my opinion
44:28
can I I'm gonna go off of that cuz it
44:30
reminds me of something you said earlier
44:31
where you said no other single-family
44:33
homes have been regulated like that in
44:35
Issaquah but that's not the case because
44:36
in the highlands they have been so I
44:38
would recommend reaching out to to see
44:42
exactly how the Highlands have really
44:44
developed because they have made a lot
44:46
of strides for saying we want to have
44:48
porches it creates a community feel so I
44:50
would write I would reach out to the
44:52
to the Association because they've had a
44:54
lot of really good feedback from
44:56
developers from all the projects that
44:59
that they've done of saying how has this
45:01
how did what we want actually get
45:03
achieved because there have been pretty
45:05
strict design guidelines that have been
45:07
put on some of those buildings for
45:08
better and for worse that they've
45:10
experienced and so I think they may have
45:11
a pretty interesting situation to look
45:14
at to how we can kind of model that
45:15
that's a good example I just you know a
45:17
lot of those that were put in place were
45:18
put in place before anybody ever moved
45:20
there so people moved into that area
45:22
knowing what they were getting into but
45:24
I think in Old Town at least at my table
45:26
at the meeting that we had some of the
45:29
people said we moved here because there
45:30
is no HOA and we do get to do what we
45:33
want and then somebody said but it would
45:35
be great to have a free HOA that we
45:37
didn't have to pay into something to
45:38
regulate some of these things so mixed
45:40
feedback but I do think a lot of people
45:42
moved in here and definitely I mean good
45:44
to see how those regulations have worked
45:45
with people on the single-family homes
45:48
but I think this is a different
45:50
situation too but certainly worth
45:51
comparing the two yeah thank you
46:00
is that even a factor to consider energy
46:02
efficiency in the materials that are
46:04
desirable to use I honestly don't know
46:07
the answer to that but I know the city
46:08
is trying to get toward carbon neutral
46:10
eventually and it you know the next
46:12
century or whatever it is and I'm not
46:15
making light of that but I know that is
46:17
a City objective so I don't know enough
46:22
about building materials to know if
46:24
that's something that should be
46:26
considered in terms of we'd really like
46:29
to see any new construction whether it's
46:32
remodeling or or entirely new building
46:35
from this range of materials and one of
46:38
the criteria for the selection of these
46:39
materials is is their energy efficiency
46:41
you know we've we've talked about that
46:44
and Keith who's hiding in the back or
46:46
Trish might be able to answer it better
46:48
than me I know that there's a
46:49
sustainability plan that's in place that
46:52
encourages right now but just not so
46:54
here he comes but does not require I
46:58
don't know what the upfront cost costs
47:00
are for that and you know I think that
47:01
there are long-term benefits but because
47:03
the upfront costs
47:04
I don't know I hear good who else is
47:20
quite a Randi hi Andy
47:22
so right now the city is I think you all
47:25
know were updating Title 18 land use
47:28
code part of 2020 is also updating the
47:33
building code so the next round of
47:35
building code updates needs to be
47:37
adopted by the city in July so there's a
47:40
conversation right now through Office of
47:42
Sustainability they have a consultant
47:44
named Suzanne and Suzanne is looking
47:48
through both our land use code and
47:51
building code for opportunities to
47:53
increase kind of our sustainable makeup
47:58
so I don't have an answer for you but I
48:01
can tell you people are thinking about
48:02
that and looking at it right now you
48:07
know when when the Development
48:09
Commission was working on uh standards
48:10
and guides that we did one of the one of
48:13
the things that became very clear was
48:14
their two philosophies who want us to be
48:16
very strict and prescriptive and the
48:18
other is to be not so strict and accept
48:21
the fact that every once in a while
48:22
somebody's going to come up with Scouts
48:23
some kind of notion that you didn't plan
48:25
for and it's a great opportunity to be
48:28
able to take a look at your standard and
48:29
say can we facilitate this or not and so
48:32
the the specifics are not nearly as
48:35
important as being able to step back and
48:37
say what's your overall goal and
48:38
perspective what are you really trying
48:40
to accomplish and so if he wanted to do
48:42
a log cabin for instance in Old Town I
48:46
think there would be room for that but I
48:49
would I would really want to take a look
48:51
at it and see how that fit into the
48:52
context of where it was being built so
48:54
that so it's more about a context thing
48:56
than a than worrying about whether the
48:58
bricks are 12 inches or the logs are 5
49:01
you know I think that gets really nutso
49:03
and so just acknowledge the fact that
49:05
you're you're not going to cover every
49:07
every facet and it's more important to
49:10
be able to have enough flexibility so
49:12
that you can create that environment
49:13
where people can feel
49:16
creative at the same time not be so
49:19
whacked out that they do something
49:20
really weird and and that's that's
49:22
really subjective that really weird is
49:24
subjective that's a good point Richard I
49:27
you know we like to refer that in our
49:29
industry as prescriptive versus
49:30
performance so you know looking at the
49:32
overall performance of a building or a
49:34
structure versus the individual elements
49:36
you know how does it perform as an
49:38
overall so I think there's definitely
49:39
opportunities to you know if one area is
49:42
lacking to compensate for other parts
49:45
within the structure so so yet you said
49:53
at the beginning that this is the only
49:55
area in the city residential
49:57
single-family residential neighborhoods
49:58
that would have regulations and that's
50:00
when it's being contemplated and so when
50:03
I was thinking about this it's really
50:04
thinking about old town and what do you
50:08
want to preserve what is the character
50:10
what are the elements of old town that
50:11
you want to preserve as you look at it
50:12
now what are those things that you want
50:14
to prevent there are some things that
50:16
have happened in the redevelopment
50:17
that's like well that's not really what
50:19
we want to see continue and then it's
50:21
what do you want to encourage in the
50:22
redevelopment because it's all
50:24
redevelopment now I mean it's it's been
50:26
built out for a long time and so I think
50:28
similar to the previous comments it's
50:31
you know it will be prescriptive in a
50:34
lot of ways I think you need to be
50:36
pretty selective at what you start with
50:38
it's you can't go in and regulate every
50:42
element of a building but you can talk
50:44
about the scale the massing of buildings
50:46
and setbacks and things that are
50:48
important articulation in certain cases
50:50
garage locations I think those are all
50:52
really good and you could start with
50:54
more prescriptive approaches there but
50:56
you really do need to have general you
50:59
know Connie this is the character in the
51:01
intent and the purpose and intent
51:03
elements of the code that give more
51:05
broad discretion I think on some of the
51:08
other pieces to allow that kind of
51:10
creativity to happen but still give
51:12
tools if things really kind of get off
51:15
track for what you want to see we're
51:18
staff or whoever the decision-making
51:20
authority will be on the design has the
51:23
ability to push back a little bit and
51:25
then if you're still getting things that
51:27
aren't what
51:28
we want to see happen as redevelopment
51:30
occur you can tighten the regulations
51:32
down a little bit but I really would be
51:34
careful about trying to get too detailed
51:37
at the beginning of this process because
51:41
I think that could paint painted into a
51:43
corner and you may get a lot of things
51:45
that are not what we would like to see
51:48
happen or you could really throttle back
51:50
reinvestment in that part of the city
51:51
and you don't want that to happen either
51:52
you want people to continue to invest in
51:54
that property I like to also bring up an
51:59
interesting point I've heard many people
52:01
talking about
52:02
performance building performance
52:04
sustainability and character and the
52:09
eclectic Ness of the neighborhood as we
52:12
as emerging technology moves forward
52:16
with renewable energies we may be seeing
52:20
things like solar panels on roofs and I
52:23
believe that's actually being deployed
52:25
now in parts of Bellevue what do we
52:28
think about having solar panels on roofs
52:31
in Old Town today and then - what if
52:35
there was another option where if
52:37
instead of having solar panels on roofs
52:40
where they could purchase higher credits
52:44
with PSC and actually get the renewable
52:47
energies from PSC as opposed to putting
52:50
on these additional utility structures
52:52
on their house
52:56
yeah that that may fall into the
52:59
citywide sustainability unless you're
53:03
saying that you don't think we want to
53:05
allow solar but I didn't hear that in
53:07
the community I heard that they want to
53:11
allow and even encourage some of those
53:14
more sustainability metrics right but
53:16
does the community know what that looks
53:18
like because it is a merging tech and
53:21
then people there isn't anybody in Old
53:23
Town that I'm aware of that has solar on
53:26
the roof and but do we want houses with
53:28
all these solar panels on the roof
53:30
what's the feel from that I think we
53:34
need to find out you know I think
53:38
there's an aesthetic piece of that but
53:40
there's also a financial piece to that
53:42
and what's is it more important that
53:45
people can you know have the can pay for
53:49
their inert Beach energy bills every
53:51
month because they've gone down because
53:52
they're using solar panels or is it more
53:54
important that you don't have solar
53:55
panels on the roof but I think that's it
53:56
question and something that needs to be
53:58
brought up this is our first public
54:00
meeting as far as you guys go so we've
54:02
got lots of time and certainly could
54:04
bring that up again
54:05
I wonder if you might consider a
54:07
sustainability section for your manual
54:10
somewhere and just to get the
54:12
conversation going and maybe it refers
54:14
to the Dakotas it's updated or the
54:18
city's sustainability initiative so
54:20
people would have a target to go to find
54:22
the latest and greatest on that I just
54:26
like to suggest something I acute the
54:28
word encouraged a lot and from my
54:32
perspective anyway unless I understand
54:34
where the word is it not unless I
54:36
understand what the word means if I'm
54:37
coming in with an application to build
54:39
something I don't understand what the
54:41
word means then that causes me confusion
54:43
so I think with all the comments here
54:46
you can see the complexity of what we're
54:49
trying to do here and I'm still not sure
54:50
I understand exactly what we're trying
54:53
to do here so so if we start using
54:55
throwing in layers like using the word
54:58
encourage as opposed to incentivize with
55:01
a dollar limits attached for example and
55:04
I think
55:04
because confusion so I think that is
55:07
something we want to stay away from
55:08
whatever we do here whatever is done I
55:12
think wants to be and we started out
55:13
with this comment actually clear and
55:15
this best we can
55:17
unambiguous to those who want to live
55:20
here who want to build here and I make
55:23
you Sukhois home in one way or another
55:25
so encourage and words like that fine
55:31
let's just suggest you know I totally
55:34
agree and that's why we're thinking
55:35
especially for the single family to
55:38
start with what do we want to require or
55:41
prohibit and then we still have this
55:44
long list of things that we heard want
55:46
to encourage so maybe in a year we'll
55:49
revisit that list to see you know are we
55:51
missing anything do we want to add
55:53
something because and in in the outline
55:56
we talked about you know the difference
55:58
between intense standards and guidelines
55:59
and guidelines there really aren't any
56:02
teeth but that's typically where you
56:03
find that encouraged so it does add a
56:06
lot of confusion to people what they're
56:09
required to do and what they're not
56:10
required to do so we can use and I think
56:13
we've been talking about that we can use
56:14
the intent statements to get at that and
56:17
just not be overly prescriptive in terms
56:20
of how people do it
56:22
so I write small taken
56:30
any other topics mm move on so I could
56:33
talk about some other other issues you
56:37
want to start with the game
56:49
I don't know how far we'll make it with
56:51
this topic but you'll see we started it
56:55
internally just staff and it just kept
56:59
going and we said let's let's see what
57:01
the Commission's think so
57:03
placemaking in our existing standards we
57:06
talked about we actually have identified
57:08
gateways into old town and when we were
57:12
doing our sub area plan updates we tried
57:16
to identify locations but it never
57:18
happened because we particularly with
57:21
the north and south nobody could agree
57:22
on where the north and south gateways
57:24
for Old Town should be so we're gonna
57:26
get your feel on it tonight because it
57:28
says here one of our policies design
57:31
gateway features to mark north south
57:33
east and in West entrances to Old Town
57:36
when public and private redevelopment
57:39
opportunities occur so the public and
57:41
private is part of a discussion as well
57:44
so I'm gonna skip that one where should
57:49
they be located we want to run some
57:51
feedback on this so right now our North
57:54
Gate North gateway is actually it's yeah
57:59
it is is considered to be at Gilman and
58:02
Front Street and right just about where
58:05
Rainier crosses up there there's
58:08
actually a sign however that says
58:10
welcome to Issaquah as you get further
58:13
down towards dogwood i believe it is in
58:16
the in the rainier Front Street
58:18
intersection right in there
58:20
you've got dairy gold which is a big
58:24
landmark out there you have the March
58:28
mercantile building I oh yeah what is
58:33
now what does that called army
58:39
lazy boy yeah lazy boy out there and
58:43
then you have smaller you know things
58:45
you know like this is this is a house in
58:47
here that it is a commercial building as
58:50
well I think it's a non-profit right
58:51
there so first of all thoughts on where
58:55
you think North Old Town begins
58:58
yes where the north part of Old Town
59:02
begins its thank you again I think the
59:13
operative word here is old and we're
59:16
gonna forget the fact that I've got a
59:18
problem with the e but so those
59:23
buildings there with the exception of
59:26
the lazy boy but certainly the dairy
59:30
goal certainly the mercantile building
59:32
are some of the oldest buildings
59:34
municipal so that seems to be kind of a
59:38
starting point for me that you know
59:43
that's the place where you start getting
59:45
into old architecture and the creeks
59:47
also goes right right under right under
59:50
Front Street
59:51
I mean Gillman no front there so that's
59:55
an that's kind of a natural actually for
59:59
me the creek is almost a defining factor
1:00:02
all the way around there especially on
1:00:04
the on the west so that's my two cents
1:00:08
worth that it seems to me to be the
1:00:10
beginning of Old Town is where the old
1:00:11
building start sidebar one of the
1:00:16
taskforce recommendations was to remove
1:00:18
the e from Old Town and we brought it up
1:00:22
during the plan update and there was an
1:00:24
uproar because old means old and old e
1:00:27
means character is that that was the
1:00:31
worst thing only thing worse than that
1:00:33
to me would be to have a science a hip
1:00:35
because you got to tell people your hip
1:00:38
thank you any other thoughts so if we
1:00:42
were to put Old Town at the start of the
1:00:44
creek and a developer came in where
1:00:46
there used to be a Shell gas station
1:00:48
where the oil changing places
1:00:52
and someone put it in a modern high-rise
1:00:54
would that character be a would it make
1:01:01
old town look like it's out of place
1:01:02
because when you're coming into how I
1:01:07
said would it be out of character as a
1:01:10
question so that's still in the cultural
1:01:14
and business district and if the new
1:01:17
land use code regulations get passed it
1:01:20
won't be able to go above 40 feet or
1:01:22
three storeys whichever is lower okay
1:01:25
whatever it goes up there but the
1:01:26
building character could be very
1:01:28
different from that of Old Town and they
1:01:32
will still fall under the Old Town
1:01:33
design standards because it's in the CBD
1:01:36
okay so what we're defining here is and
1:01:40
maybe I'm confused what we're defining
1:01:42
as the start of Old Town but not the Old
1:01:44
Town design Stanners Old Town it's a
1:01:48
gateway sort of announcing here here we
1:01:50
are a back two slides you gonna make me
1:01:54
figure out which way is back it's a
1:01:56
symbolic hint to people who are driving
1:01:59
into the area you're transitioning into
1:02:01
a distinctive area so the current
1:02:05
standards these are some pages that deal
1:02:08
with gateways so it talks about it in
1:02:10
two ways and one is this public
1:02:12
investment so the arch or some you know
1:02:15
an art feature or something like that
1:02:17
and then one is in terms of the private
1:02:19
development so with the plan guidance it
1:02:23
was a little unclear how we wanted to
1:02:26
interpret that into the standards
1:02:28
whether or not we want to keep this or
1:02:29
if we want to focus it just on the
1:02:32
public investment or the private and I
1:02:34
think what you were getting at is does
1:02:37
the architecture need to respond in a
1:02:39
way can it or should it not when it's in
1:02:42
this area is that what you're getting at
1:02:43
in terms of yeah that's that's pretty
1:02:46
much a so if we say Old Town starts at
1:02:49
to Randy's point the creek then does
1:02:53
that mean what's in front between the
1:02:55
creek and Gillman could that be out of
1:02:58
character with Old Town and create
1:03:03
visual visual defects yeah sorts right
1:03:07
yeah and I think that's precisely what
1:03:09
we're asking you you know are the a are
1:03:13
these the right locations if it is then
1:03:17
how do we want to market do we want to
1:03:19
have a departure like that or do we want
1:03:22
to steer away from the private side so
1:03:25
we've had a lot of discussion about it
1:03:27
and so that's why we're curious what you
1:03:29
guys thought about what these gateways
1:03:31
are and how we want to interpret them in
1:03:34
the standards I'm a proponent of having
1:03:37
that Front Street and Gillman being the
1:03:40
beginning for the north entrance into
1:03:42
Old Town this is more from discussions
1:03:44
that we've had on our Commission over
1:03:46
time that we've come to kind of saying
1:03:48
how do we want to introduce people into
1:03:50
Old Town and we think about the
1:03:51
neighbors that are around it we think
1:03:53
about the xxx The Grange is down the
1:03:55
street we see a distinct character
1:03:56
difference when you turn that corner and
1:03:59
I'm thinking right now that there's
1:04:01
regularly a giant banner right there
1:04:03
that's announcing what our next festival
1:04:05
is what are we doing trying to encourage
1:04:07
people to say hey what's going on really
1:04:09
in the heart of Old Town and that starts
1:04:11
right there so I would encourage that
1:04:13
before the creek that even before you
1:04:15
get there because once you hit the
1:04:16
creaking you hit the dairy gold with the
1:04:18
exception of the lazy boy you are full
1:04:20
into old town in my opinion so having
1:04:22
that intersection to me is where it
1:04:23
begins and I think doing something that
1:04:27
is large and visual as we often have a
1:04:29
banner wouldn't be uncharacteristic as
1:04:31
long as again it fit within a design
1:04:33
standard if you're looking to announce
1:04:36
something and we want to say this is Old
1:04:38
Town welcome because again you've
1:04:40
already been in Issaquah most likely I
1:04:42
just want to be clear I don't i wasn't
1:04:45
saying the creek should be the boundary
1:04:48
I actually agree with joy it's a good
1:04:49
question to say where should that be and
1:04:51
I think the creek is a natural one so I
1:04:53
like that as a discussion saying I agree
1:04:56
with you yeah I think to me the front
1:04:58
Gilman is actually where were you know
1:05:02
it's the obvious entrance to old town so
1:05:04
I just mentioned the creek because
1:05:06
that's kind of one of the defining
1:05:09
characteristics I was thinking actually
1:05:11
a very golden tell the joy just
1:05:13
completely sold me on front so I'm
1:05:16
actually now also for Front Street and
1:05:18
Hillman that seems like a good
1:05:20
demarcation line but if we were to have
1:05:22
a arch this says welcome to Old Town
1:05:25
right as right at the point on Gilman
1:05:28
don't you think that would be too soon I
1:05:33
know it's semantics but it's kind of
1:05:36
like but the Grange and the xxx and I
1:05:39
mean even though it's I don't think it's
1:05:41
technically part it's still that's
1:05:44
that's when you start getting the feel
1:05:46
of it classic question why is it
1:05:48
important to have these a designation a
1:05:52
clear delineation of something that's
1:05:54
essentially amorphous and going to
1:05:56
change over time what's the point I mean
1:05:59
it seems to me that one enters that goes
1:06:01
up leaves Gilman and goes out front you
1:06:03
already know you don't have to be told
1:06:05
something's different unless you're
1:06:07
blind and stupid and that may be the
1:06:09
case for a lot of people nonetheless so
1:06:11
I'm not sure how many angels can you fit
1:06:14
in the head of a pin I mean you have
1:06:17
this discussion endlessly and that's
1:06:19
year it might be something different
1:06:20
because the milk whatever they're called
1:06:23
has decided to move or what you know and
1:06:25
that's possibility by the way way the
1:06:28
world's going so so I'm just wondering
1:06:30
if it really is a worthwhile discussion
1:06:32
to have it's an important one I guess
1:06:34
they're everything feels it is it is
1:06:35
then fine I'm just raising the question
1:06:37
it wouldn't be important to me to be
1:06:39
told when old time begins I can figure
1:06:42
it out right I think I I think it's an
1:06:45
identifier if you're new to town I think
1:06:47
you know wayfinding has been a big topic
1:06:49
in the city for a long time and that's
1:06:51
kind of a way of doing some wayfinding
1:06:53
and it just seems to be since day one
1:06:56
things that people have wanted we want
1:06:58
to be identified
1:06:59
I see part of it as a protection as well
1:07:02
we've had a lot of discussions about
1:07:04
protecting Old Town and keeping it as a
1:07:06
distinct place separate as we see
1:07:09
development happening in Issaquah and to
1:07:11
us in previous discussions we've seen it
1:07:13
as kind of creating a little bit of a
1:07:16
bubble so that when you come into Old
1:07:17
Town you unmistakeably know that it's
1:07:20
different it's not the same as other
1:07:22
places in the city we like that and we
1:07:24
want
1:07:24
encourage it and that kind of helps with
1:07:26
that I think from a development
1:07:28
standpoint it's it's an iconic feature
1:07:30
that introduces Issaquah as a old town
1:07:33
and it's like judging a book by it's
1:07:36
cover if it's got a really nice entrance
1:07:37
people may be more likely to come in and
1:07:39
and have a better more enjoyable time
1:07:42
it's about customer experience more than
1:07:45
function I'll have been a utility aspect
1:07:47
because there's no utility 'no Stu it
1:07:49
it's just it's marketing I like to put a
1:07:53
word in for the bridge as being the
1:07:56
location for it because I think there
1:07:57
are some very interesting great
1:07:59
historical aspects north like the xxx
1:08:02
and Derry gold and so forth but I don't
1:08:05
know that those necessarily fit in what
1:08:07
I would think of the character of Old
1:08:09
Town to me is the more walkable Main
1:08:13
Street type of Old Town which i think is
1:08:15
to me starts at the bridge and goes
1:08:17
south and I feel that's the walkable
1:08:19
type of Main Street whereas the Derry
1:08:22
Gold is sort of industrial the lazy boys
1:08:25
now mid-century type of stuff we've got
1:08:28
Bank branches and things like that
1:08:29
I like the historical buildings north of
1:08:32
the bridge but I feel to me the
1:08:34
character of Old Town starts at the
1:08:36
bridge and goes south I wanted to add
1:08:40
some extra flavors into the conversation
1:08:42
just as you're talking about where I
1:08:44
think it's helpful to talk about what as
1:08:47
well so we've collected some pictures
1:08:50
just of different types of gateways and
1:08:53
we're not saying these are all
1:08:55
appropriate or not appropriate for Old
1:08:57
Town but it's just categorizing
1:08:59
different styles so you know something
1:09:02
can be you know what we've been talking
1:09:03
about these archways or the banners can
1:09:05
be more this public investment it is a
1:09:09
type of gateway that can be over a
1:09:11
street or a sidewalk there can be
1:09:14
prominent you know ground sign that can
1:09:16
announce to be to be another gateway you
1:09:19
know these are kind of literal gateways
1:09:22
you know even there could be an art
1:09:25
installation again the can can be
1:09:27
another type of gateway or you can start
1:09:31
talking and we were starting to get this
1:09:33
you know you can just use prom
1:09:36
architectural features can be a gateway
1:09:38
as well whether it's you know massing
1:09:41
that has a different shape you know like
1:09:43
this hexagon or however many sides that
1:09:46
is or something that's a departure from
1:09:49
style you know you have this glass shape
1:09:52
right here that that seems to be a
1:09:55
departure that that marks you know a
1:09:57
transition or you can have some sort of
1:10:00
prominent blade sign you know could
1:10:02
arguably even be a gateway and then the
1:10:07
the last type and just in terms of what
1:10:09
we're thinking is even public spaces
1:10:11
you know the absence of a building or
1:10:13
the absence of something could be
1:10:15
another threshold or another transition
1:10:18
so I just wanted to run through those as
1:10:20
we talk about locations just because
1:10:23
we're talking about what we want to
1:10:25
write into the standards which typically
1:10:27
deal with the private property so the
1:10:30
question is what are we going to require
1:10:32
private developments to do if they're
1:10:35
located in these Gateway areas so that's
1:10:37
kind of the framing question to have
1:10:42
something so with that I'll go back to
1:10:48
the north or you guys still want to talk
1:10:50
about the specific north example where
1:10:54
we were
1:10:56
and I think to ask it another way we've
1:11:00
talked about the banner we've talked it
1:11:02
seems like more of this discussion has
1:11:05
been in this private realm I mean the
1:11:09
public realm in terms of public
1:11:10
investment to mark the gateway but then
1:11:14
we've also talked about these these
1:11:15
buildings contribute to the sense of a
1:11:21
threshold so if a property was to
1:11:25
redevelop in this area do we want to
1:11:28
have specific standards for that
1:11:30
property or do we need to expand it or
1:11:35
move that area that's kind of the very
1:11:37
specific question that we're looking for
1:11:40
feedback on tonight
1:11:42
I know I know I think I think we're
1:11:51
gonna regulate regulate to a fairly
1:11:53
large extent the development that the
1:11:56
private people can make and it would
1:11:59
seem seem more appropriate in my mind to
1:12:01
have it be a municipal reliability or
1:12:04
responsibility to be able to create that
1:12:06
gateway sense whether it's a banner
1:12:07
statue or a water fountain or whatever
1:12:11
it is I it just seems like the the
1:12:16
standards are going to dictate what the
1:12:18
house is I mean that and it would seem
1:12:21
pretty inappropriate to have them say
1:12:22
okay now you have to put up a fountain
1:12:32
you know I think regulating the
1:12:35
architecture at the gateways is
1:12:36
important whether it's at the north east
1:12:37
south west I also have this kind of
1:12:40
thought floating around if something
1:12:42
that can be changed throughout the year
1:12:45
right you know and we look at what we do
1:12:49
at the you know during Halloween for
1:12:51
example order and you know salmon days
1:12:54
something that can be transformed and
1:12:56
evolved for something just static
1:12:58
sitting there getting dirty you know and
1:13:02
those are just kind of my thoughts on
1:13:04
Gately
1:13:05
in general or types of gateways yeah
1:13:09
well he just mentioned the magic word as
1:13:12
far as I'm concerned that salmon because
1:13:17
we are you know there are a lot of
1:13:19
people in this town that are spending a
1:13:21
lot of time and effort from the state
1:13:23
level down to the county level to the
1:13:24
municipal level the private sector to
1:13:27
get greater understanding of the fact
1:13:30
that there is a miracle that takes place
1:13:32
in a city every year and it's unique in
1:13:36
the world it's a mass migration that
1:13:38
goes through the middle of a massive
1:13:41
modern city and there's no place else in
1:13:43
the world let it happens and it begins
1:13:45
and ends right here so if we're gonna
1:13:48
have something that announces your
1:13:53
arrival into this place I
1:13:55
suggested it be something that is
1:13:58
dedicated to the unique aspect of this
1:14:02
place and it happens to be in old town
1:14:04
and that's the hatchery but the symbol
1:14:06
is salmon and the more I think the more
1:14:09
that we can do in Issaquah to address
1:14:14
the long-term viability of this
1:14:18
endangered species the better
1:14:26
I completely agree that it's a municipal
1:14:27
responsibility and especially when we go
1:14:30
back to things like signage that it's
1:14:33
something that is something that I think
1:14:36
we should involve the Arts Commission on
1:14:37
as well I think that doing something
1:14:39
like some pictures you had on scale that
1:14:43
it's a combination of arch and art is
1:14:45
something that represents Old Town and
1:14:48
then also as quaza City and we really
1:14:51
are proud of our salmon runs and I think
1:14:55
that it's something that it's a very
1:14:56
nice way to integrate also the green
1:15:00
space aspect of our character as well
1:15:01
and so I think there's a lot of play
1:15:03
there to be done in an artistic way on a
1:15:08
larger scale there on that northern side
1:15:12
so just looking at the other locations
1:15:15
so this you could see that there's a
1:15:17
hatch which shows where the gateways are
1:15:21
so this is the the West gateway which
1:15:24
might be a little ton more challenging
1:15:28
just in terms of what's there so that's
1:15:32
the framing question is do we want to
1:15:35
treat this differently than the north
1:15:38
you think there should be some municipal
1:15:41
lead gateway here or some additional
1:15:44
standards for private redevelopment that
1:15:47
happens at this intersection it seems
1:15:50
like that one could be more like there's
1:15:58
not enough traffic there there's really
1:16:00
no place to put anything I see something
1:16:02
that's less and scale but we have the
1:16:04
creek there right there so it really is
1:16:05
to me a very symbolic place you're about
1:16:08
to hit the hatchery you know so to me I
1:16:11
would I would I would call it more of a
1:16:13
piece of art rather than arch I think to
1:16:15
me the scale is a difference here but I
1:16:18
wouldn't negate it you know coming off
1:16:20
of Newport there you you do kind of you
1:16:23
have a big shift to which you're coming
1:16:25
in you have the the low-rise apartments
1:16:28
and to the library I mean it's a very
1:16:29
different feel than Newport and so I
1:16:31
think calling it out is completely
1:16:33
appropriate but rather than maybe
1:16:35
calling out a specific gateway to that
1:16:38
area the fish hatchery is there and
1:16:41
maybe using the fish hatchery itself
1:16:43
with either statue or something like
1:16:45
that because you had a couple pictures
1:16:47
that might be good examples use
1:16:49
something at the fish hatchery to
1:16:51
announce that you are coming into the
1:16:53
fish hatchery and that would be the
1:16:55
gateway to west side of Issaquah and it
1:16:59
would be a marker to let people know if
1:17:00
there's something special there and I
1:17:04
would
1:17:04
for me I would I would have the city put
1:17:06
an arch over the bridge here and over
1:17:10
the bridge at the north end of town and
1:17:12
both those arches have artistic salmon
1:17:15
going because that's what's happening
1:17:16
underneath used to go through there is a
1:17:18
salmon flowing through have an arch
1:17:20
there welcome to Old Town it's got the
1:17:23
salmon they're both the same location
1:17:26
essentially were salmon days booths and
1:17:29
so forth in at those bridges you don't
1:17:34
really have boosts all the way up to the
1:17:35
north but to me that would be the at
1:17:37
those two entrances you could have city
1:17:39
artwork celebrating the salmon reminding
1:17:42
people you're going over a bridge that
1:17:44
has salmon underneath it so I I think
1:17:53
it's a combination I think it is an arch
1:17:57
or some major feature but there it also
1:17:59
is a combination of what is the design
1:18:02
standard for the buildings that will be
1:18:04
constructed there because if you think
1:18:06
about when you're entering that you're
1:18:08
transitioning to a different place the
1:18:10
look and feel is different it's not just
1:18:12
a sign that doesn't make the experience
1:18:14
different it's about what's happening
1:18:16
around you that makes the experience
1:18:17
different so you didn't you have
1:18:19
something that it's kind of a marker it
1:18:20
could be an arch or a piece of art or
1:18:23
something that's reflective of the
1:18:25
community's values and interests but
1:18:27
it's also thinking about what's
1:18:29
happening with architecture and
1:18:31
redevelopment that will happen over time
1:18:32
so you could require open space or a
1:18:35
small plaza that has something that is a
1:18:38
place where people could gather or
1:18:40
you're integrating art into it or a
1:18:44
specific feature of the building that is
1:18:46
a gateway in nature you're not to be
1:18:48
real specific there but saying it needs
1:18:50
to be something that is you know a new
1:18:53
marker from transitioning from one part
1:18:55
of the city into another so I think it's
1:18:57
more than just posting a sign or you
1:19:02
know a piece of art it's a combination
1:19:04
of things that actually makes a gateway
1:19:06
really a gateway a transition to a new
1:19:09
place
1:19:13
Oh on the the east side right now in the
1:19:20
standards it's just this little one
1:19:22
property right there that's designated
1:19:24
the Gateway and right now it's this a
1:19:29
vacant looking parcel no I was just
1:19:38
saying I think it's a kind of used as a
1:19:40
parking lot for the trailhead right now
1:19:42
so is the thinking that there's these
1:19:46
gateways should be different each one
1:19:49
should be different or should there be a
1:19:52
common design theme is there one message
1:19:54
that we're trying to convey to everybody
1:19:58
that comes in to Old Town through these
1:20:00
various gateways and I happen to think
1:20:01
that that it there ought to be a theme
1:20:04
for all of them
1:20:06
whatever that is obviously I think
1:20:09
salmon but I'd be a little bit I don't
1:20:14
know yes I'm not comfortable with
1:20:15
different they can be different medium
1:20:19
maybe a standard in one place or an
1:20:22
origin and another but but I think the
1:20:24
message has to be the same so I'm sorry
1:20:29
I don't know if you're familiar with
1:20:31
them but in Old Town several years ago
1:20:33
we had an artist make bike racks for us
1:20:36
and they all represent different
1:20:38
elements of Old Town and one represents
1:20:41
the water
1:20:42
it's kind of a pebble fell in the water
1:20:43
and it's the ripples another one
1:20:46
represents it's a fern
1:20:48
different firms and so it represents the
1:20:50
greenery in the trailheads and the last
1:20:52
one took me awhile is a thumbprint but
1:20:55
for the people who live here but they're
1:20:57
all made out of the same materials of
1:20:59
the same shape they're all related but
1:21:01
they represent different parts of Old
1:21:02
Town is that kind of where you're going
1:21:04
what they need to be similar and well I
1:21:06
do first place I like Joy's idea of
1:21:10
getting the Arts Commission involved in
1:21:13
this I mean I'm really leery of
1:21:15
bureaucrats with all due respect
1:21:17
deciding what art is gonna be I so I
1:21:21
think that's a really good really good
1:21:25
addition to it that if again if there is
1:21:30
one defining thing for for this place it
1:21:34
seems to me to be the salmon and so if
1:21:40
we're going to have different messages
1:21:41
or different symbols on the different
1:21:44
gateways that doesn't seem to be as
1:21:46
effective to me as having the same
1:21:49
symbol regardless of whether again if
1:21:51
it's an arch or a rock with it
1:21:54
salmon carved into it or something like
1:21:56
that but but this is this old town is
1:21:59
where this takes place and this is
1:22:01
really our identity and it's part of the
1:22:03
curriculum for the school district and
1:22:07
yeah the Randy's point what's the theme
1:22:10
I think right now there is no theme and
1:22:14
and the reason why we've brought this up
1:22:16
is because there's plan guidance to deal
1:22:20
with this and then in the existing
1:22:21
standards it actually calls out parcels
1:22:24
to say these are gateways the design
1:22:27
should respond and so we were looking at
1:22:29
it saying hmm is this something we want
1:22:30
to carry over into the updated guideline
1:22:33
or standards and then looking at the
1:22:35
plan that it wasn't that specific we
1:22:38
thought it was valuable to have that
1:22:40
conversation and get your feedback and
1:22:42
what I'm hearing is this is probably
1:22:44
more suited to you know Arts Commission
1:22:47
having some more and a cohesive
1:22:50
discussion about what these are rather
1:22:53
than codifying them in terms of actual
1:22:55
standards and guidelines to you know
1:22:57
what needs to happen and I know you're
1:22:59
gonna go to public comment I mean not
1:23:01
here but public feedback in terms of
1:23:05
what the themes should be but I getting
1:23:08
the different Commission's like the
1:23:10
Parks Commission the Arts Commission dia
1:23:13
it's involved in trying to come up with
1:23:15
what is the theme of Issaquah what do we
1:23:18
want to brand ourselves as and then use
1:23:21
that as the gateway themes and that may
1:23:25
actually dictate what these archways are
1:23:28
going to be we may have more than
1:23:30
one style of archway but I think the
1:23:32
point we need to figure out is where do
1:23:35
we want gateways rather than what do we
1:23:38
want them to look like at this phase
1:23:40
because we don't know what it's going to
1:23:42
look like because we haven't even
1:23:43
decided what our branding is going to be
1:23:45
yet and it's even probably another step
1:23:48
but but like whereas does do you want
1:23:52
the Gateway to be a public project where
1:23:56
it's in the public right-of-way and its
1:23:57
publicly funded and it goes through the
1:23:59
Arts Commission or do you want to create
1:24:01
additional standards for the private
1:24:03
development to support for mark that
1:24:05
gateway and I think right now the
1:24:07
current standards say if there is a
1:24:09
public Gateway then the building or the
1:24:12
architecture should respond to it but it
1:24:15
doesn't necessarily say you have to the
1:24:18
building doesn't have to be the Gateway
1:24:19
so we're just trying to figure out how
1:24:21
do we want to codify this topic yeah I
1:24:27
the way I think this is going to work
1:24:30
actually is that it is our
1:24:33
responsibility to recommend to the mayor
1:24:36
and the council the PPC you know what
1:24:41
what we think things as big as the
1:24:44
themes ought to be so when I and I don't
1:24:48
know joy had this in mind but I didn't
1:24:51
intend to imply that the arts and of the
1:24:54
Arts Commission should decide what the
1:24:56
theme is I think that that should come
1:24:59
to them and then they would do their
1:25:03
recommendations to the council and the
1:25:05
mayor and maybe even come back through a
1:25:08
public hearing with a PPC but I think
1:25:11
that's that's the city that's our job to
1:25:15
recommend what we think the theme of the
1:25:18
gateways should be and whether or not it
1:25:21
should be one you know a different one
1:25:23
for each gateway or one that's
1:25:25
reinforced by all of them and I wonder
1:25:27
if we're talking really about gateways
1:25:30
for this particular sub area or gateways
1:25:32
for Issaquah well the other sub areas
1:25:34
then have defined gateways just like
1:25:36
this you know we multiplying lots of
1:25:38
gateways here are we really talking
1:25:40
about what's symbolic and brand
1:25:43
significant for his equal yeah that's a
1:25:46
good point because maybe we want if we
1:25:48
get st3 coming into town and we have an
1:25:51
arch we have a bridge going over the
1:25:55
freeway maybe that becomes the Gateway
1:25:57
to is a and then we have a gateway to
1:26:00
Old Town which is different it's a sub
1:26:05
marketing it's a it's an area of town
1:26:07
that we're gonna market differently than
1:26:09
we would is a quad do you mind going
1:26:12
back to the East real quick I think one
1:26:15
one thing we haven't touched on
1:26:16
specifically to the easterly gateway is
1:26:18
that a lot of people are coming into our
1:26:20
community from there and are moving
1:26:23
through okay and they're coming through
1:26:25
a pretty sensitive part of Old Town so I
1:26:27
unfortunately had to miss the traffic
1:26:29
calming meeting that was in the Eagle
1:26:31
room prior to this but we all know that
1:26:33
coming into these neighborhoods we want
1:26:35
to give the impression that you are in a
1:26:38
special place please slow down
1:26:40
so this gateway is actually services in
1:26:45
a different way rather than kind of
1:26:46
saying this is who we are in character
1:26:48
it also has a function it also has a
1:26:51
function because of where it's situated
1:26:52
right next to coming off of the 90
1:26:54
people coming in again through other
1:26:56
communities through the Highlands and
1:26:57
passing through and right now the way
1:26:59
that you kind of get that is a flashing
1:27:01
sign telling you you're going over 25 so
1:27:04
wouldn't it be nice if we said that in a
1:27:06
different way so gateways can also be
1:27:08
functional they can also encourage
1:27:10
safety they don't also they can be
1:27:12
beautiful it can be a big piece of
1:27:13
assault but we can see how often
1:27:16
truckers hit I mean I think there can be
1:27:17
a lot of things but it can also be a
1:27:19
functional way to help communicate to
1:27:21
drivers that you are entering a place
1:27:23
that is different than where you've been
1:27:25
and so I think that for the east that's
1:27:26
a very important thing to think about as
1:27:29
we design something for that space
1:27:31
you know your discussions your public
1:27:33
meetings we've had public input we've
1:27:36
talked about theme here and we were
1:27:38
imposing some of our ideas
1:27:41
discussion has there is there have you
1:27:43
been given it can you clay ideas coming
1:27:47
from those who live in the area but what
1:27:49
it means to be in Old Town have you got
1:27:52
themes that we could play off of and say
1:27:55
ah those are that's what it means to
1:27:57
those who live here or come through here
1:28:00
regularly right now if you rather a
1:28:02
divorce from that whole in isolation
1:28:06
here talking in the room yeah we haven't
1:28:09
we haven't heard any themes yes no when
1:28:13
we haven't asked we yeah and we haven't
1:28:15
asked that would be a good reason why um
1:28:18
so I look forward to hearing something
1:28:19
tonight
1:28:20
most of our discussions recently have
1:28:22
been on the single-family areas because
1:28:24
that's so new to us and we want people
1:28:26
to be sure that they're comfortable with
1:28:27
what happens to houses so that's been
1:28:30
the primary discussion there but I look
1:28:32
forward to hearing it when during that
1:28:33
yeah maybe hopefully three brother
1:28:35
comments people yeah for Ron's comment
1:28:37
yeah right yeah I agree and it seems
1:28:54
like that there'd be value and having a
1:28:56
discussion just around this topic that's
1:28:59
separate from the standards and I think
1:29:02
from how the the planned policy is
1:29:05
written it's a little vague to where
1:29:08
there's a disconnect between the actual
1:29:10
standards and the policy that I think
1:29:11
having a broader discussion me with
1:29:13
other Commission's as well to see and
1:29:16
you know coupling it with the traffic
1:29:18
calming I think is a great idea so I
1:29:21
think we can brainstorm as a project
1:29:24
team and the next time we come back we
1:29:26
can have some you know steps to how we
1:29:28
can do this to get people's involvement
1:29:31
as well because I don't want us to
1:29:34
pretend like we're coming up with the
1:29:36
theme for the gateways tonight and I
1:29:38
think it's you know much more important
1:29:41
of a conversation I just want to
1:29:45
Richard's comment I don't see gateways
1:29:49
hither thither in yarn
1:29:51
I mean it seems to me that what we're
1:29:54
doing here today is old town and helping
1:29:57
people understand old town as opposed to
1:30:01
the commercial district or the central
1:30:03
district or the Highlands or something
1:30:05
like that I I think that's a really good
1:30:06
question that's an obvious question but
1:30:08
I my take on that would be no we're just
1:30:10
if we're gonna do gateways it's just
1:30:12
gonna be and and the East Gateway
1:30:15
frankly and the North Gateway are so
1:30:19
close to 90 that they function is
1:30:21
welcome to Issaquah markers anyway so
1:30:25
and this is from the old town plan you
1:30:29
know so the city policy is specific to
1:30:31
Old Town - so the one comment that I
1:30:36
guess an answered your question about
1:30:37
should we have those properties be zoned
1:30:40
that way or the requirements my thought
1:30:42
would be the to keep those bid as
1:30:45
allowing them to have gateway features
1:30:48
that might be different than the rest of
1:30:50
all town but not requiring them to have
1:30:54
gateway features and make them be forced
1:30:57
to have a public announcement on their
1:31:00
property the city wants to put up
1:31:02
signage artwork that can be what they do
1:31:04
if these people aren't incorporated in
1:31:06
those locations allow them to do that so
1:31:10
quick question to that because I like
1:31:13
where he's going with that what if we
1:31:14
did a co-branding effort with a
1:31:17
landowner who wanted to develop a
1:31:20
building and we'd say we want to build
1:31:23
an archway we want this to or we want
1:31:25
this to be a gateway we would throw
1:31:28
money to you to help you build a
1:31:30
building that would be a gateway to our
1:31:34
art community in that way we we get
1:31:37
something and they get something and the
1:31:41
end product is we get a great gateway
1:31:42
experience okay so I think having that
1:31:47
might be a good solution but I think the
1:31:49
buildings need to match sort of the
1:31:50
Gateway experience
1:31:56
the last gateway before we move on just
1:31:59
to close this conversation is South
1:32:02
gateway the pool area so that definitely
1:32:09
has a different different look and feel
1:32:11
and character but I think we can move on
1:32:14
to ad use and the ditions if we've
1:32:16
discussed this enough great so to start
1:32:23
with additions I think the framing
1:32:25
conversation here is what size or what
1:32:30
amount of value of addition should
1:32:35
respond to the standards does every
1:32:38
addition need to abide by the standards
1:32:40
or is there some threshold so that's I
1:32:44
think the highest level question we have
1:32:46
for you I think it's the zoning right
1:32:49
now that has a value so if it's 50% of
1:32:52
the value of the property then you have
1:32:54
to come into compliance with to the best
1:32:56
extent possible so the best extent
1:32:58
positive centralized so that's just kind
1:33:00
of a starting point to think about does
1:33:04
that make sense to look at this from a
1:33:07
value perspective or do you want to
1:33:09
think about additions in terms of square
1:33:11
feet or presence on the street and this
1:33:14
example over here these were just if you
1:33:17
go back in in Google Street View I think
1:33:20
this is from you know 2008 or something
1:33:22
and then it's the same property now so
1:33:25
you can see what you know some one
1:33:28
property has done already where you know
1:33:30
it pops the top and expands so how do we
1:33:35
want to deal with with additions I'll
1:33:39
run through some some pictures just to
1:33:41
frame these questions a bit more so when
1:33:44
we talk about additions do you want to
1:33:47
have any sort of character stylistic
1:33:50
standards to to the addition so for
1:33:54
example these two pictures our houses
1:33:57
that were added on to but it was done in
1:34:00
a way that it appears to be one cohesive
1:34:02
design whereas this option down here you
1:34:06
could see that the ground floor
1:34:08
had one character in style and then the
1:34:10
addition has a completely different look
1:34:12
and feel so that's up for discussion
1:34:16
how how we want to manage this and
1:34:19
regulate it you want to add something
1:34:20
well I was going back to the plywood
1:34:22
example you know say there's an existing
1:34:25
house that's sitting there and it's made
1:34:27
of plywood is it best for the edition to
1:34:31
come in and keep the consistent
1:34:33
character of the existing house that
1:34:34
news plywood or do they need to comply
1:34:37
with something that is allowed as a
1:34:39
material and do
1:34:41
I don't know material so I'm looking to
1:34:43
you it's something else that would be
1:34:48
allowed you know say if that's just
1:34:50
another consideration there as part of
1:34:52
the additions I think I believe that the
1:34:58
architectural standards are going to
1:34:59
define the character and the context of
1:35:01
the facility and so rather than worry
1:35:04
about a square foot it would seem more
1:35:08
appropriate to me to say if you've
1:35:09
changed the context or character you
1:35:11
need to you need to comply you know the
1:35:13
point the point is to maintain that
1:35:15
eclectic character and so I can see
1:35:18
where you could add a 10 by 10 garage on
1:35:21
the front of your house that's not what
1:35:23
you want you could put a 10 by 10 garage
1:35:25
on the back of your house and you
1:35:26
haven't changed the context or character
1:35:28
and it seems like that would be more
1:35:30
than appropriate right so I don't know
1:35:32
that you I think it would be really
1:35:34
perilous to go down the square foot yep
1:35:38
so you're thinking more if it's visible
1:35:39
from the street you know that might be
1:35:41
one threshold if you know for instance
1:35:44
if it's on the side of a house then then
1:35:46
that might be more conducive to
1:35:49
standards well rather than if it's
1:35:52
behind it and my table in with the table
1:36:02
I was at we're all about what was
1:36:04
visible from the front there was some
1:36:05
discussion of the alley and where to
1:36:07
have the garage but everything else was
1:36:09
I think really about the image from the
1:36:13
front so we followed along with that
1:36:14
theme and perhaps that's a way to solve
1:36:17
this problem
1:36:19
focus on the front and they decide
1:36:22
couldn't be more treatment besides could
1:36:25
be more flexible doesn't get to the
1:36:26
plywood issue but it does at least say
1:36:29
that focus is on that image from the
1:36:31
street image I would almost treat all
1:36:36
sides equally I think it's important to
1:36:39
keep you know keep in mind the neighbors
1:36:41
obviously you know what's being affected
1:36:44
on there and just a clarification
1:36:48
Samantha on that the 50% value so
1:36:51
currently as it stands less than 50%
1:36:53
value design standards don't apply is
1:36:57
that correct
1:36:58
that's for zoning great it is right now
1:37:04
there are no standards there's no
1:37:05
standards right now okay so once we have
1:37:10
standards then that's a question you
1:37:12
know should they apply or or not is that
1:37:15
even the right metric or do we want to
1:37:18
have other criteria I'm an agreement to
1:37:21
try to keep things uniform you know
1:37:23
based on the style and the standards I
1:37:25
think seeing two three houses stitched
1:37:29
together isn't quite pleasing I I've
1:37:33
actually seen a few developments like
1:37:34
that in Seattle and I always wonder as I
1:37:36
walk past them what what the reason was
1:37:38
but but I think you know back to that
1:37:42
conversation I think it's important to
1:37:43
be mindful of all all elevations all
1:37:47
sides of a building whether it's an
1:37:48
alley street or your adjacent neighbor
1:37:51
so when you say keep things uniform keep
1:37:54
them uniform with what's existing or
1:37:56
keep things bring things into compliance
1:37:58
so that they're all uniform with
1:38:00
standards it's a good question I think a
1:38:09
good question I kind of think about that
1:38:14
if they were like recited their house
1:38:16
then they added an addition then they
1:38:19
would resize their whole house with that
1:38:21
material but if they didn't want to if
1:38:23
they didn't want to cover the expenses
1:38:25
then they would be they would have to
1:38:27
comply with matching what's already
1:38:28
existing right
1:38:29
thing like that because to the point
1:38:31
about stitching them together those
1:38:33
pictures are horrifying yeah newah t is
1:38:36
really important here and especially
1:38:37
because right now we're talking about
1:38:38
editions which makes it really easy on
1:38:40
the eye I think there was a image you
1:38:42
had of number four we have this Tudor
1:38:43
and the modern and it makes me cringe a
1:38:45
little bit and so let's movies like to
1:38:49
me the hypothetical then moves to a tu
1:38:50
which is something we want to encourage
1:38:52
okay it's important that we build these
1:38:54
in a way we're not saying you have to
1:38:56
build the Tudor but they should have to
1:38:58
pick one or the other so if we decide
1:39:00
that we are not going to say that once
1:39:04
you do in addition that you now need to
1:39:06
fit to the design standards if we don't
1:39:08
go that path then we need to think about
1:39:10
80 uses saying there needs to be
1:39:12
continuity to the property so that there
1:39:15
again isn't all this hodgepodge of
1:39:17
collected just crammed into these little
1:39:18
spaces which is easy to do when you
1:39:21
think about hey how cheaply can I put a
1:39:22
little shed on a little heater if I run
1:39:25
you know I mean how basic and minimum
1:39:27
can we get when you start I'm gonna add
1:39:29
a composting toilet I mean I mean you
1:39:31
can start building a tea use in a way
1:39:33
that can really change the character of
1:39:35
a neighborhood and we've seen in Seattle
1:39:36
there's been a big uproar to that for
1:39:38
the very reason of this foresight some
1:39:40
concept that we're in a community we are
1:39:42
neighbors we do share fences and walls
1:39:45
and so there has to be some sort of what
1:39:48
exists in place and how do you match
1:39:51
that because not every home does look
1:39:53
the same and so there needs to be a
1:39:55
character that gets preserved per
1:39:56
property as well
1:39:58
so I just wanted to make sure we're
1:40:00
clear so most likely if we adopt
1:40:04
standards for architecture for
1:40:07
single-family most of the most of the
1:40:09
homes are not going to comply completely
1:40:11
so so those in some way shape or form
1:40:14
they will probably out of compliance
1:40:15
with the new standards so if you do an
1:40:18
addition the choices are either the
1:40:20
addition doesn't comply because we
1:40:23
wanted to be consistent with the
1:40:25
existing non-compliant house or you make
1:40:28
the addition comply which now makes it
1:40:30
not exactly match the existing house or
1:40:34
you say you now have to if you want to
1:40:37
do in addition you now have to make your
1:40:38
house comply so those are your three
1:40:40
choices
1:40:42
and obviously there's a fiscal impact to
1:40:45
whichever one of those choices you want
1:40:48
to pick but you need to think about the
1:40:49
cost and the aesthetics when you think
1:40:53
about those three choices I just want to
1:40:54
make sure that guys we're thinking about
1:40:56
that holistically Keith can I ask you
1:40:59
just for clarification homeowners in
1:41:02
this area now that are want to make a
1:41:07
change or in addition to their property
1:41:10
that goes they have to go to the city
1:41:13
would you define what the jurisdiction
1:41:16
is in terms of because as I recall and I
1:41:19
just asked Richard this you don't if
1:41:22
you're a homeowner and you want to put
1:41:24
an addition on your house or you want to
1:41:26
remodel it or whatever it doesn't come
1:41:28
before the Development Commission it's
1:41:29
unplanted
1:41:30
it's already on planted land so this is
1:41:32
not a DC level issue that needs to be
1:41:37
kind of clarified so right now in Old
1:41:40
Town so if you were so so this is where
1:41:43
we have some different rules in
1:41:45
different parts of the city but in like
1:41:47
in the highlands if you want to do in
1:41:49
addition there is an architecture review
1:41:51
committee as joi alluded to earlier it's
1:41:54
not City run it's it's administered
1:41:56
through the covenants and the Community
1:41:59
Association of the highlands talus has
1:42:01
the same thing for Old Town if you want
1:42:03
to do an addition you bring your plans
1:42:05
into City Hall Northwest we review them
1:42:09
against zoning code only we don't we
1:42:12
don't we don't judge aesthetics and and
1:42:15
you get your permit based on that this
1:42:17
would add a new layer and we haven't
1:42:19
even talked about if we were to do this
1:42:21
who's gonna then be the Czar of
1:42:24
aesthetics for Old Town that's a whole
1:42:28
other conversation which we would need
1:42:30
to figure out at some point so this is a
1:42:34
question to Keith so before Randy's
1:42:37
question what would be your
1:42:39
recommendation for how to handle us
1:42:41
because if I was a landowner and Old
1:42:45
Town and that might be soon and if I
1:42:48
wanted to either convert a house or
1:42:53
in addition to an existing house then
1:42:57
from a cost standpoint am I gonna have
1:42:59
to bring the whole house up to standard
1:43:02
or just the addition I mean because you
1:43:07
start changing the whole house now you
1:43:10
have a huge cost burden that you may not
1:43:13
be able to write it's it's a huge
1:43:15
impediment to people expanding in place
1:43:18
so that's if you guys are pointed in
1:43:20
that direction we're gonna have to have
1:43:22
a serious conversation about the
1:43:24
limitations that that would put on Old
1:43:26
Town residents and and you know we could
1:43:29
probably do a straw vote today and I'm
1:43:31
gonna guess most - you would probably
1:43:32
land in the right space but we can talk
1:43:34
about that that's part of that equation
1:43:36
if we want to just go down the rabbit
1:43:39
hole for a second on who might review
1:43:42
these guidelines and compliance with
1:43:44
these guidelines again I'm not going to
1:43:46
suggest a preferred alternative I'm
1:43:48
gonna say that there are choices the
1:43:50
first choice would be we could choose
1:43:53
Development Commission okay that's one
1:43:55
choice are we gonna vote on that second
1:43:59
second choice would be staff third
1:44:03
choice is you know we could try to
1:44:07
organize an Old Town architecture review
1:44:10
committee that would be made up of
1:44:12
residents who live in Old Town that
1:44:13
would be on parallel with like the
1:44:15
Highlands and Tallis where people who
1:44:18
live there would actually form a
1:44:20
committee and everything would then run
1:44:23
through them so so there's choices we
1:44:25
would have to you know at some point
1:44:27
later on we'll talk about you know if
1:44:30
there's a preferred recommendation from
1:44:32
this group on which one of those choices
1:44:34
make the most sense but there's choices
1:44:36
so I think there's choices on how
1:44:40
editions are handled and editions would
1:44:42
include ad use there's choices on who
1:44:45
ultimately is the reviewing body so
1:44:48
those are things that again as we start
1:44:50
to and part of some of those decisions
1:44:53
Ron I think will become may be clearer
1:44:56
depending on how far down the totem pole
1:44:58
we want to regulate I mean if all we're
1:45:00
doing is regulating no flat roofs and
1:45:03
you know it's gonna be one of these
1:45:04
colors that's fairly easy and you guys
1:45:06
might say well staff can do that that's
1:45:08
a check the box kind of thing
1:45:10
the farther down the totem pole we get
1:45:12
the the more its I'm gonna suggest it's
1:45:15
not staff and and then we're gonna need
1:45:17
to talk Richard about DC because if it's
1:45:20
a huge workload item house DC going to
1:45:22
manage that
1:45:23
right so those are some of the nuances
1:45:26
we're gonna have to talk about when when
1:45:28
we get to the right space just a quick
1:45:32
follow up comment so I appreciate
1:45:34
Keith's comments so I without having the
1:45:36
regulations in place it's kind of hard
1:45:38
to make some judgments here about the
1:45:40
threshold but also just just thinking
1:45:42
about back to my original comment how
1:45:45
much of what we have in in old town do
1:45:48
we want to see change and how much of it
1:45:50
is it do we want to preserve if we're
1:45:52
pretty comfortable with what we've got
1:45:53
there then when it comes to additions
1:45:56
and remodels to buildings
1:45:57
maintaining the architectural style or
1:46:01
compatibility is probably fine but if we
1:46:04
want to start to kind of push the
1:46:06
buildings to whatever the new standard
1:46:08
is then you want to set a threshold that
1:46:10
says well when you trip this threshold
1:46:12
50% of the value or 50% of the building
1:46:15
area or whatever you whatever the choice
1:46:17
is it drives the new regulation it says
1:46:20
now you need to upgrade your property to
1:46:22
comply with our new standards so I think
1:46:24
part of it it's a bit of a judgement
1:46:26
call them that will really be driven by
1:46:29
what the level of regulation is that's
1:46:31
decided on here I think and and as far
1:46:35
as the we're just since I've got the
1:46:37
microphone where it goes
1:46:38
development Commission we're pretty busy
1:46:40
so I'm thinking maybe planning and
1:46:45
policy up is here you guys so the I
1:46:48
think staff clearly this is a staff
1:46:51
level would be my recommendation again
1:46:54
it depends on the regulate level of
1:46:55
regulation the next choice would be you
1:46:57
have the community help regulate itself
1:46:59
in that particular part of the city so
1:47:01
those would be my suggestion
1:47:05
I can't jump in real quick with
1:47:08
something so to go off of Michael's
1:47:10
comment something I was interested about
1:47:12
our meeting tonight was this kind of
1:47:13
cross dialogue between our Commission's
1:47:15
so we had part of the responsibility of
1:47:18
designating you guys as a person to take
1:47:21
over you VDC and as we grandfathered in
1:47:24
these parts of the city and said well
1:47:27
you know can't can't no to city staff
1:47:29
saying what you know what and where can
1:47:30
this and be absorbed and you guys got
1:47:32
that and I think it's an interesting
1:47:33
question to say how has your workloads
1:47:37
changed and how have you guys find that
1:47:39
it's been helpful as we've put in these
1:47:43
design standards it was a big deal a lot
1:47:46
of work went into it and it kind of
1:47:47
having this perspective from you guys of
1:47:49
saying how is this working all right how
1:47:51
are you guys actually finding that doing
1:47:54
something like we're trying to do an Old
1:47:56
Town has made a difference I'd be
1:47:57
curious to see from your guys's
1:47:59
standpoint you know we work on the code
1:48:01
but you guys got to live with it
1:48:02
so how has been living with it then last
1:48:06
year we had 19 meetings for shelter
1:48:08
would one just about every other week
1:48:12
and so so it's hard to it's hard it's
1:48:16
just been one project and the
1:48:18
consequence was it was it was a big
1:48:20
workload I think it's hard to really
1:48:22
make an evaluation because that was such
1:48:25
a dominant piece of work and I do think
1:48:30
the the evergreen Ford dealership was an
1:48:32
interesting test case for us certainly
1:48:34
because it was in terms of the central
1:48:37
Issaquah design standards trying to fit
1:48:39
that into a car dealership in the
1:48:42
location they were in it was not the
1:48:46
easiest one to work with so for anybody
1:48:51
and the Gilman lofts project was another
1:48:53
interesting application there because it
1:48:56
wasn't exactly specifically two
1:48:59
guidelines but it was an interesting
1:49:01
creative spin on one of the
1:49:05
architectural styles that we had urban
1:49:07
Grange so is I think is very helpful to
1:49:10
have that
1:49:12
you and I I would just add that I think
1:49:16
we because because of the work that we
1:49:18
did on the standards and guides for the
1:49:20
development Commission we are way far
1:49:21
ahead of getting what we want you know
1:49:25
and so I just encouraged that that
1:49:27
process is really important and it it
1:49:30
really boils down to acknowledging that
1:49:32
you can be really specific or not quite
1:49:35
so specific and having that dialogue
1:49:36
because when you're not so specific you
1:49:39
end up having to talk about it more you
1:49:40
know and making some trade off so
1:49:42
whether it really meets and complies
1:49:43
with what you want to do or not but the
1:49:46
standard having a standard an
1:49:48
appropriate inappropriate kind of
1:49:50
standard really really is helpful do you
1:49:54
have examples from other towns where
1:49:57
you're starting with a an area that's in
1:50:01
assassins diverse and trying to think
1:50:06
through whether or not to impose some
1:50:08
lack of diversity to it do you have us
1:50:13
think about some of these questions
1:50:16
which there's no defined answer it's a
1:50:20
judgment call and very helpful to have
1:50:22
other experience from other places and
1:50:24
the results of the processes they went
1:50:28
through a lot of the examples I have are
1:50:34
really specific to solving a specific
1:50:36
problem like there are a lot of
1:50:39
demolitions or it's in a historic
1:50:42
district or it's an area that's not
1:50:46
seeing any development so then we use
1:50:48
this as a tool to then incentivize and
1:50:51
start to guide development so Old Town
1:50:53
is unique in a certain way but I think
1:50:57
what I'm hearing is really getting very
1:51:00
clear about what is the most important
1:51:02
aspects to maintain the character and
1:51:05
focus on getting those right instead of
1:51:07
having all this fluffy ambiguous you
1:51:11
know guidelines that then turn into a
1:51:13
judgment call and prolong the process
1:51:15
and then I like the plan of revisiting
1:51:18
in a year to see if it's working or if
1:51:20
it's not if we want to tighten things up
1:51:21
or not but I think
1:51:24
I think what I'm hearing and I think I
1:51:27
know I can speak for staff is we don't
1:51:29
want to create this really long
1:51:30
drawn-out process for anybody for the
1:51:34
homeowners for the designers for a staff
1:51:36
or you guys but we want to make sure
1:51:39
that we still protect and preserve what
1:51:41
is most valuable about Old Town yeah
1:51:44
just for a minute to come back to
1:51:46
Commissioner Brennan's statement
1:51:47
regarding identify very high level what
1:51:51
are the aspects that you really are
1:51:53
looking to preserve you know and if
1:51:55
those become your guiding principles and
1:51:57
you test every single intent statement
1:51:59
against that then maybe you know you can
1:52:01
really drive consistency through what
1:52:02
you're trying to do a good discussion
1:52:08
thank you all for coming and
1:52:11
participating as much as you did in I'm
1:52:17
going to follow the agenda but I'm going
1:52:19
to be very efficient I think that's what
1:52:23
we have for tonight um next this all
1:52:26
blends together let's see next steps so
1:52:30
on February 25th we are taking this same
1:52:34
type of discussion to the City Council
1:52:37
we'll also be talking about the proposed
1:52:40
land use code amendments that night and
1:52:42
then we're going to move straight into
1:52:43
this discussion and let them know same
1:52:47
things that you heard except that we
1:52:48
will also include this conversation and
1:52:50
let them know what we heard here and get
1:52:51
their feedback on it as well we are not
1:52:54
expected to put a draft out there until
1:52:57
June 4th it will be out there for public
1:52:59
review and then we start that public
1:53:01
process on June 11th we're going to have
1:53:03
another joint development commission and
1:53:05
planning policy commission meeting may
1:53:07
have another meeting in there to talk
1:53:08
about these and then July 19th we're
1:53:12
expected to have a public hearing the
1:53:14
11th would be a council study session
1:53:16
and then these were these will be
1:53:17
adopted as part of the title 18 update
1:53:20
it'll be incorporated into that will
1:53:21
have a complete document for you all to
1:53:23
look at and to make a recommendation on
1:53:25
but it'll be incorporated into title 18
1:53:28
that is the proposed schedule I think
1:53:33
that's I think that covers all the
1:53:35
announcements any other things that we
1:53:36
have
1:53:37
that means it's finally time for
1:53:39
audience comments so when you come up if
1:53:42
you would just give us your name that's
1:53:44
all we need be great any takers
1:53:54
I changed it what not one but not the
1:53:58
other July he's 20 hello I'm Bill Frey
1:54:01
singer I live in old town on Bush Street
1:54:05
and the initial discussion he said
1:54:08
you're gonna concentrate on you have to
1:54:11
carry the categories because I
1:54:12
suggestions and required and talked to
1:54:15
that they're gonna just initially with
1:54:16
this required then it's not like most of
1:54:19
stuff what sort of suggests to me my
1:54:21
particular concern is the color require
1:54:24
months you showed an example of the kind
1:54:28
of rainbow house next I would be
1:54:30
perfectly fine if he could say well you
1:54:32
can use one color on that rainbow house
1:54:34
is the main color and the other one is
1:54:35
an accent color alright but it's nothing
1:54:38
like the this sort of earth tones you
1:54:41
were talking about so I wanna I guess I
1:54:45
want to emphasize that I want a fairly
1:54:48
wide choice and colors maybe if it's
1:54:52
outside of something rather you go
1:54:54
through some review process or something
1:54:55
like that but anyway a little bit of
1:54:57
flexibility there
1:55:01
the spelling of Old Town by the way I'm
1:55:06
a horrible speller and if there isn't a
1:55:09
consistent way to do it I have even more
1:55:11
problems I mean I was trying to figure
1:55:13
out what's going on in Old Town so I
1:55:15
googled Old Town I didn't get anything
1:55:16
there wasn't spelling town right or was
1:55:20
it old one spell in one of the words
1:55:21
right and that's just a personal view on
1:55:25
that thank you very much
1:55:33
good evening my name is Ryan Yee and my
1:55:37
wife and I own a property right on
1:55:40
sunset way just off second two four five
1:55:45
since a way we have been in the last
1:55:48
year looking at trying to redevelop the
1:55:51
entire property it the property
1:55:54
currently used is uses as a acupuncture
1:55:57
office for my wife and massage therapy
1:56:00
many of you dry pass it better health at
1:56:03
sunset first of all I'd like to say
1:56:06
thank you for all of you that volunteer
1:56:07
your time for the design commission I
1:56:09
know my volunteer work that I do it
1:56:12
takes an awful lot of hours and a loft
1:56:14
awful lot of effort so I really
1:56:16
appreciate it
1:56:17
I like to know how many of you anyone
1:56:20
else that lives in Old Town in the area
1:56:23
okay great
1:56:25
any of you live directly on Front Street
1:56:27
or sunset way right one of the questions
1:56:34
I really had for the design Commission
1:56:36
in the city was its those front street
1:56:40
and sensit way really are completely
1:56:43
different in the aspect that they are
1:56:48
part business part private ownership are
1:56:52
you know looking at our property for
1:56:55
redevelopment we wanted to maintain the
1:56:58
acupuncture practice there in the in the
1:57:01
city but also live above it and a lot of
1:57:06
building codes I know have gone away
1:57:08
from that where there's no longer
1:57:11
families living above their business and
1:57:15
one of the questions I had is what
1:57:18
exactly do you want to attract on those
1:57:22
two main streets of those businesses
1:57:25
they're all small businesses we don't
1:57:28
have million dollar building development
1:57:30
funds we can't build huge complexes I'm
1:57:35
in the construction business myself I do
1:57:38
remodels on residential and commercial
1:57:41
buildings
1:57:42
and I realize anytime I go down to the
1:57:45
city on a permit and said we would like
1:57:49
to add the kitchen into our incorporated
1:57:51
into our build and realize that we just
1:57:55
told the homeowner in the city that
1:57:57
we're adding somewhere between 10 and 40
1:57:59
thousand dollars to their cause of
1:58:01
project all of a sudden because of
1:58:04
whatever codes we need to bring things
1:58:06
up to or additions that we have to have
1:58:10
well I also like actually to take a look
1:58:13
at you know again your front view aspect
1:58:16
rather than just your all-around view
1:58:18
aspect one of the thoughts we looked at
1:58:22
in concept was having a rooftop deck on
1:58:25
the back side of the the three-story
1:58:27
house yet if we were required to keep a
1:58:31
full four view or all four aspect sides
1:58:37
we would have to have a pitched roof
1:58:39
something along those lines so we look
1:58:44
at this and those decisions that you
1:58:46
make is the flexibility is truly
1:58:49
important especially as I see
1:58:54
does anyone else on the design
1:58:56
Commission have come from a Asian or
1:58:59
African back graphic background that
1:59:02
wants to incorporate cultural aspects
1:59:05
into their business they're building
1:59:07
their restaurant
1:59:08
I'm Fung Shui architect attitudes that
1:59:14
we want to consider I know there we have
1:59:17
a Japanese spa in the middle of Old Town
1:59:20
and I know that Japanese look probably
1:59:24
doesn't fit the criteria of what we have
1:59:28
for general Old Town standards but I
1:59:34
encourage yes keep it as recommendations
1:59:37
leave a lot of flexibility for what
1:59:41
we're faced with is quite immense I know
1:59:45
I was probably 10 years back I know
1:59:48
recognize Michael from when I came upon
1:59:53
the
1:59:54
approval for just the front signage of
1:59:57
our business and we had quite a few fun
2:00:03
questions just trying to get through is
2:00:06
this the minimum that we need just to
2:00:10
have a sign and does it really work
2:00:13
we also approached in looked and said
2:00:15
hey we might want to have some sort of
2:00:18
ramp access from sunset onto our
2:00:21
property as a business but found out
2:00:26
that that triggered a traffic
2:00:28
concurrency study and report in excess
2:00:32
of 20,000 dollars to build a 25 foot
2:00:35
long 3-foot wide ramp so as we get into
2:00:41
this development especially the
2:00:45
businesses long front sunset way these
2:00:48
family businesses really have to take a
2:00:51
look at how but they want to best use it
2:00:55
the code changes are important the
2:00:59
parking lot or parking requirement
2:01:01
changes that we face for instance right
2:01:05
now we face for every 200 feet of office
2:01:08
space we have to have a parking space
2:01:10
and when you were looking at being able
2:01:15
to increase to 75 percent usage of the
2:01:20
space which is what's being proposed
2:01:22
it's a tremendous benefit but would be a
2:01:25
better benefit for us is not having to
2:01:28
have as many required parking spaces or
2:01:31
that square footage so instead of 200
2:01:34
maybe increasing it to 3 or 400 square
2:01:37
feet of parking because we really don't
2:01:39
use that much parking but we're going to
2:01:42
be required to put it in
2:01:46
thank you for your time I more than
2:01:48
happy to answer any questions or
2:01:51
comments and we'd love to stay involved
2:01:54
I don't know the exact date when the
2:01:59
code changes may actually get voted and
2:02:02
approved but we're waiting to make those
2:02:07
decisions on our plans as soon as those
2:02:09
do happen thank you
2:02:18
is there anyone else who'd like to speak
2:02:27
anyone else
2:02:31
there anyone else we'd like to sneak
2:02:35
right the opportunity is rapidly going
2:02:40
so in regard to the whole discussion
2:02:43
about old town I guess I I'm always
2:02:45
reminded when people start talking about
2:02:47
spelling of my favorite quote from Mark
2:02:49
Twain and he says never trust anybody
2:02:51
can only spell a word one way being
2:02:56
challenged that way my whole life it's
2:02:58
been a refreshing so having we
2:03:00
appreciate the public taking the time to
2:03:02
make comment and the dialogue was really
2:03:05
excellent and so at this point let's
2:03:07
consider ourselves adjourned
2:03:20
you