Planning Policy Commission · Thursday, April 28, 2022 · City Council Digest

1. CALL TO ORDER

Commission Membership

packet pp.3

Open packet at p.3 ↗

Staff report:

PLANNING POLICY COMMISSION Staff Liaison Christen Leeson, Senior About Planner Created in 1983, this commission serves as a Email policy advisory body to the Mayor and provides guidance and direction for Issaquah's future Regular Members growth through continued review and 2022 – Joy Lewis improvement to the City's Comprehensive Land 2022 – Matt Monahan Use Plan and related land use documents. 2022 – Jason Voiss 2022 – Vacant Membership 2023 – Nina Milligan The Planning Policy Commission is comprised of 2024 – Ron Faul seven regular members, with four-year terms; 2024 – Sara Bader and several alternates, with two-year terms. All members are appointed by the Mayor and Alternate Members subject to confirmation by the City Council. 2022 - Richard Zaragoza Terms expire April 30 of the year listed. For 2023 - Vacant more information, see IMC 18.03 and Rules & Regulations. Meetings Unless…

2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES

Minutes of Apr. 7, 2022

packet pp.5–14

Open packet at p.5 ↗

Staff report:

MINUTES Special Joint Meeting PLANNING POLICY COMMISSION - ENVIRONMENTAL BOARD – PARK BOARD 6:30 p.m. - Thursday, April 7, 2022

Minutes of Apr. 14, 2022

packet pp.15–23

Open packet at p.15 ↗

Staff report:

MINUTES PLANNING POLICY COMMISSION 6:30 p.m. - Thursday, April 14, 2022

5. REPORTS

Council Update

Stephen Padua, Long Range Planning Manager

6. OTHER BUSINESS / ANNOUNCEMENTS

Upcoming Schedule

packet pp.35–37

▶ Watch from 1:35:45 Open packet at p.35 ↗

Staff report:

Planning Policy Commission 2022 Schedule (subject to change) 2022 1/20/22 1/27/22 Joint Meeting with Development Commission ▪ Public Hearing: Proposed 2022 Docket of Education: Title 18 - Building and Design Comprehensive Plan and Zoning Map ▪ Neighborhood Overlay Standards Amendments January o Olde Town, Central Issaquah, Issaquah Joint Meeting with Development Commission Highlands, Talus Title 18: Education - Building and Design ▪ Neighborhood Overlay Standards o Olde Town, Central Issaquah, Issaquah Highlands, Talus 2/10/22 2/24/22 Joint Meeting with Development Commission Joint Meeting with Environmental Board

2615 segments .txt ↗

0:00 ↗ time is 6 31.

0:02 ↗ due to the virtual format of tonight's

0:03 ↗ meeting i'd like to start by providing

0:05 ↗ some guidelines we have participants

0:07 ↗ attending by computer and others who may

0:09 ↗ be attending by phone

0:11 ↗ for all meeting attendees who wish to

0:12 ↗ speak please speak clearly and pause

0:15 ↗ frequently

0:16 ↗ state your name each time before

0:18 ↗ speaking mutual microphone when not

0:20 ↗ speaking and if having technical issues

0:22 ↗ try joining the meeting using a

0:24 ↗ different device such as a smartphone or

0:25 ↗ tablet or use the call-in information in

0:27 ↗ the meeting invites

0:30 ↗ and

0:34 ↗ okay

0:38 ↗ so as a reminder this meeting tonight

0:41 ↗ the continuation of the public hearing

0:43 ↗ that began on february 28th regarding

0:45 ↗ the natural environment the public

0:47 ↗ comment portion of this public hearing

0:50 ↗ was closed on march 10th therefore no

0:53 ↗ more comments will be taken

0:55 ↗ on those topics tonight we will however

0:57 ↗ offer time for general comments after uh

1:00 ↗ tonight's deliberations

1:03 ↗ uh attendance stephen will you please

1:05 ↗ call the role for commissioners tonight

1:09 ↗ yes

1:10 ↗ commissioner milligan

1:13 ↗ commissioner lewis

1:16 ↗ here

1:18 ↗ mr monahan

1:20 ↗ here

1:22 ↗ commissioner voice

1:24 ↗ here commissioner vader

1:27 ↗ here

1:29 ↗ question your foul

1:30 ↗ here

1:32 ↗ commissioner zaragoza

1:36 ↗ oh commissioner zergos is actually

1:38 ↗ excused tonight

1:42 ↗ sheriff all you have a forum

1:44 ↗ excellent thank you

1:45 ↗ all right and so first order of business

1:47 ↗ tonight let's go ahead and approve the

1:49 ↗ meeting minutes um

1:52 ↗ are there any corrections to either

1:55 ↗ draft of the april 7th or april 14th

1:58 ↗ meeting provided in the agenda packet

2:00 ↗ tonight

2:04 ↗ okay hearing none the minutes are

2:05 ↗ approved

2:07 ↗ okay the next item on for tonight's

2:09 ↗ agenda is

2:11 ↗ the regular business in the continuation

2:13 ↗ of the public hearing for title 18

2:15 ↗ natural environment updates for outdoor

2:17 ↗ lighting and final amendments

2:20 ↗ many will you please get us started with

2:22 ↗ the outdoor lighting and amendments i'm

2:23 ↗ sorry not many uh lucy

2:27 ↗ sure um

2:28 ↗ stephen can you give me uh screen

2:30 ↗ sharing rights

2:33 ↗ oh and while lucy's doing that just

2:35 ↗ remember that there we've already asked

2:37 ↗ all the questions for that and so

2:38 ↗ tonight is supposed to be deliberations

2:40 ↗ only but i suspect there might be a

2:41 ↗ question or two

2:50 ↗ um so

2:51 ↗ um

2:53 ↗ as we did last time um

2:57 ↗ this presentation is a um

3:01 ↗ sort of

3:03 ↗ summary of some of the questions and

3:05 ↗ comments that we um received

3:08 ↗ um these are the ones uh these five are

3:11 ↗ the ones that were in your memo i know

3:14 ↗ um this was in the way way back machine

3:16 ↗ so i know we're all catching up a bit

3:19 ↗ and

3:20 ↗ glad to try and

3:22 ↗ help if i can

3:24 ↗ so just going through a couple of the

3:26 ↗ things that we heard comments about

3:28 ↗ one had to do with

3:30 ↗ internal building lighting

3:33 ↗ and that's not regulated by this code

3:37 ↗ but

3:38 ↗ instead by the building code

3:40 ↗ in particular the energy code and

3:42 ↗ there's also a requirement for

3:44 ↗ occupation sensors which will turn

3:46 ↗ lights off automatically when spaces

3:49 ↗ aren't occupied and that's not just at

3:51 ↗ night but at any time

3:54 ↗ accent lighting was another thing

3:57 ↗ that we got comments on

3:59 ↗ it's decorative

4:01 ↗ not for function or safety so i think

4:04 ↗ that's an important thing to keep

4:06 ↗ in mind

4:08 ↗ to some extent it's what's pictured in

4:10 ↗ the lower right hand image

4:13 ↗ i

4:14 ↗ summarized what's currently allowed in

4:17 ↗ code

4:19 ↗ but i think one of the main differences

4:21 ↗ is

4:23 ↗ that

4:25 ↗ the current codes regulations for accent

4:28 ↗ lighting is performance based meaning it

4:32 ↗ it talks about it's it's a little vaguer

4:34 ↗ it's more about how it's supposed to

4:36 ↗ behave

4:37 ↗ not more prescriptive and we've moved

4:39 ↗ towards a more prescriptive set of

4:41 ↗ standards to make expectations clear for

4:45 ↗ the community for staff and for

4:48 ↗ applicants

4:50 ↗ i know one of the questions was

4:53 ↗ submitted by christy triple

4:55 ↗ in

4:56 ↗ the image on the upper right

4:59 ↗ there was a question about whether

5:00 ↗ something like that would be allowed and

5:03 ↗ the i think the thing i would point to

5:05 ↗ is that there is a

5:07 ↗ cornice or eve at the top of the

5:09 ↗ building

5:11 ↗ that catches the light and that's what

5:13 ↗ we allow is contained uplighting

5:16 ↗ and so from what we can tell of this

5:18 ↗ image that would be allowed

5:23 ↗ um a lot of discussion around thresholds

5:26 ↗ and trying to unders we've been asking

5:28 ↗ you all about thresholds and we wanted

5:31 ↗ to provide some uh illustrations of what

5:34 ↗ those thresholds mean

5:36 ↗ um

5:37 ↗ so there are three different um sort of

5:41 ↗ thresholds that we use in this document

5:44 ↗ one is residential

5:46 ↗ and these examples are approximations of

5:49 ↗ the thresholds i didn't find exact

5:51 ↗ examples but the residential

5:54 ↗ is

5:55 ↗ seven units with no common space i

5:58 ↗ believe this project probably has eight

6:00 ↗ units but it it's

6:02 ↗ similar

6:04 ↗ for the small and simple projects

6:07 ↗ um they

6:08 ↗ their threshold is less than four

6:10 ↗ thousand square foot of building

6:13 ↗ and a half acre or about 22 000 square

6:16 ↗ feet so this example is about a 3 000

6:20 ↗ square foot building and the

6:22 ↗ area highlighted in yellow

6:25 ↗ is on the side that half acre size

6:28 ↗ and then of course the complex projects

6:30 ↗ are anything above that and the example

6:33 ↗ i provided was

6:34 ↗ um revel

6:36 ↗ gate rebel issaquah which was also

6:38 ↗ called gateway senior

6:41 ↗ so um part of the importance of those

6:44 ↗ thresholds is

6:46 ↗ the

6:49 ↗ actions that you have to take depending

6:51 ↗ on the size of your project

6:53 ↗ for new construction right now

6:57 ↗ there's no real distinctions you need

6:59 ↗ permits

7:01 ↗ you may need a lighting designer for

7:03 ↗ almost anything

7:04 ↗ whether you're under the

7:06 ↗ general

7:08 ↗ lighting code in 1807

7:10 ↗ or the central issaquah code in chapter

7:13 ↗ 17.

7:15 ↗ what we have proposed was that for

7:19 ↗ residential

7:21 ↗ instead of

7:23 ↗ well residential isn't currently

7:25 ↗ regulated so we are proposing to

7:27 ↗ regulate lighting

7:30 ↗ following the model lighting ordinance

7:32 ↗ and also to

7:35 ↗ try and control the amount of light

7:38 ↗ there is in the city

7:40 ↗ but we aren't requiring a permit

7:42 ↗ lighting would only get reviewed if it

7:44 ↗ was part of a larger permit such as a

7:47 ↗ building permit otherwise you would just

7:50 ↗ comply and we wouldn't review it

7:54 ↗ for

7:56 ↗ a small and simple project

7:58 ↗ you would need a permit but you don't

8:00 ↗ need to hire a lighting designer that

8:02 ↗ isn't the case right now

8:04 ↗ um these if you had a small commercial

8:07 ↗ project

8:08 ↗ you would need to um probably hire a

8:11 ↗ lighting designer what this would while

8:14 ↗ you're going to get a permit you're

8:16 ↗ going to do that

8:17 ↗ a small property owner could use a um

8:22 ↗ their

8:23 ↗ architect their contractor to

8:27 ↗ just do the lighting consistent with

8:29 ↗ this prescriptive code

8:32 ↗ and then for the bigger more complicated

8:35 ↗ projects you would hire a lighting

8:36 ↗ designer

8:39 ↗ another set of questions that we got was

8:42 ↗ about bringing things into compliance

8:44 ↗ uh the two codes um

8:47 ↗ that have the most to say about that

8:50 ↗ um it's really hard to know it's

8:54 ↗ you're supposed to conform to the

8:56 ↗ great fullest extent practical and

8:58 ↗ physical feasible which is a pretty

9:01 ↗ hard threshold to navigate

9:05 ↗ so um what we proposed again consistent

9:08 ↗ with the model lighting ordinance is

9:10 ↗ that all new lighting would comply

9:13 ↗ and that if you meet certain thresholds

9:16 ↗ um that then you would bring your

9:18 ↗ project into compliance and those

9:20 ↗ thresholds are you're adding 25

9:22 ↗ to the project units gross floor areas

9:25 ↗ seating parking

9:27 ↗ or you're changing 25 of your exterior

9:30 ↗ lighting

9:31 ↗ so it's it's much clearer when you need

9:34 ↗ to come into conformance

9:39 ↗ another thing that we asked about

9:40 ↗ because we had gotten some questions was

9:43 ↗ about residential projects currently

9:45 ↗ single family isn't regulated as i said

9:48 ↗ and ornamental lighting is exempt

9:52 ↗ under the model lighting ordinance

9:55 ↗ most single-family

9:56 ↗ projects would it be in zone one

9:59 ↗ and that does not allow any of the low

10:02 ↗ voltage lighting so we thought that was

10:04 ↗ an important piece to

10:06 ↗ discuss with you

10:08 ↗ uh you are allowed to have one

10:10 ↗ unshielded

10:11 ↗ light

10:13 ↗ but other than that everything else

10:14 ↗ would be shielded so the two the center

10:17 ↗ and the lower image should show you sort

10:20 ↗ of what the difference is between an

10:22 ↗ unshielded and a shielded light

10:26 ↗ the last

10:28 ↗ piece

10:29 ↗ was

10:30 ↗ had to do with outlining buildings

10:33 ↗ currently

10:35 ↗ we allow strings of lights

10:38 ↗ the code allows holiday lights up to 78

10:41 ↗ days it's very focused on the end of the

10:43 ↗ year

10:45 ↗ and in old town outlining buildings was

10:47 ↗ is prohibited so

10:49 ↗ we had carried that forward exempted

10:52 ↗ strings of lights

10:53 ↗ um allowed festival lights limited

10:56 ↗ limited them to 60 days so that it could

10:59 ↗ be um

11:00 ↗ we're right we're seeing this happening

11:02 ↗ all different times of the year all

11:04 ↗ different kinds of activities um so

11:07 ↗ instead of focusing on the end of the

11:08 ↗ year we focused on a period of time that

11:11 ↗ could happen any time

11:13 ↗ we had prohibited outlining buildings

11:17 ↗ several commenters brought up the

11:20 ↗ conflict between allowing

11:22 ↗ festival lighting

11:24 ↗ strings of lights but not out

11:26 ↗ allowing outlining of building

11:29 ↗ so one of the suggestions we had was

11:33 ↗ to allow the outlining of buildings such

11:36 ↗ as this upper right hand image

11:38 ↗ in which individual white lights outline

11:41 ↗ a building

11:43 ↗ rather than allowing

11:46 ↗ any color

11:47 ↗ and

11:48 ↗ continuous outlining of buildings such

11:51 ↗ as shown in the upper left

11:55 ↗ that's not in the code right now that is

11:56 ↗ a

11:57 ↗ proposal back from staff

12:00 ↗ in response to this valid

12:03 ↗ conflict between those pieces

12:07 ↗ and that's the end of my presentation

12:14 ↗ okay thank you lucy and let's go ahead

12:17 ↗ if you have any comments please go ahead

12:19 ↗ and put it in the chat or

12:21 ↗ if you have a question it's like just

12:22 ↗ limited to one question

12:24 ↗ or so

12:25 ↗ i think we can

12:27 ↗ tonight's gonna probably be pretty short

12:35 ↗ and joy lewis you have the floor

12:39 ↗ thank you chairfall um i hope you will

12:41 ↗ humor me and allow me to continue on

12:43 ↗ from our february discussion and i do

12:45 ↗ have a couple questions before i get to

12:47 ↗ the comments um because i wanted to try

12:49 ↗ to clarify one is um what is being

12:52 ↗ proposed right now to bring current

12:54 ↗ buildings into compliance i appreciate

12:56 ↗ that we have a prescriptive notion of

12:58 ↗ when you're doing work and it needs to

13:00 ↗ be brought in but let's say you're not

13:01 ↗ meeting that 25 threshold right um right

13:05 ↗ now what is our plan that again is not

13:08 ↗ going to be codified but is um a part of

13:11 ↗ our model lighting ordinance to be able

13:13 ↗ to say how we bring the rest and

13:15 ↗ existing buildings into compliance

13:18 ↗ so like most things it's an incremental

13:21 ↗ process

13:23 ↗ um

13:24 ↗ we do see that

13:26 ↗ with the title 18 update

13:29 ↗ in general and outdoor lighting in

13:32 ↗ specific there's going to need to be

13:34 ↗ an education process

13:37 ↗ because

13:39 ↗ things like having the dark sky hours

13:42 ↗ and other things

13:44 ↗ are

13:46 ↗ it's an opportunity to do something for

13:47 ↗ the city it's also um saves energy for

13:51 ↗ people who own property so we're hoping

13:53 ↗ that through an education process it

13:55 ↗ will make it more attractive

13:59 ↗ thank you um i'm curious uh and when

14:02 ↗ we're talking about the simple projects

14:05 ↗ traditionally what i've experienced in

14:08 ↗ the code is that we have an either or

14:10 ↗ for instance if your building is this

14:12 ↗ amount of square feet or your property

14:14 ↗ is this amount of square feet

14:16 ↗ and then we would tend to do whatever is

14:18 ↗ lower for instance right as an example

14:21 ↗ i'm curious why there's two different

14:24 ↗ numbers right now

14:27 ↗ well i think part of it is um

14:32 ↗ so the i'll say the model lighting

14:34 ↗ ordinance these aren't our thresholds

14:36 ↗ the model lighting ordinance did not

14:39 ↗ have

14:40 ↗ they either did the prescriptive

14:42 ↗ or the perform the calculation

14:45 ↗ they didn't use both and this seemed

14:48 ↗ like an opportunity to provide an out

14:51 ↗ you know a simpler process for smaller

14:53 ↗ projects which was certainly something

14:55 ↗ we've been hearing about

14:57 ↗ the reason that we proposed both is this

15:00 ↗ is outdoor lighting

15:02 ↗ and you can have properties that are um

15:07 ↗ where they uh

15:09 ↗ are not building a building right it

15:11 ↗ could just be a parking lot or it could

15:14 ↗ just be um

15:16 ↗ some other outdoor activity that doesn't

15:19 ↗ have a building so we felt it was

15:21 ↗ necessary to not only look at the site

15:24 ↗ um not just look at the building but

15:26 ↗ also look at the site

15:28 ↗ rather than saying when there is no

15:30 ↗ building therefore this is the square

15:32 ↗ footage to be as simple

15:34 ↗ because right now i it reads a little

15:36 ↗ confusing it it may end up getting

15:37 ↗ cleared up a little bit um but again

15:39 ↗ it's just more based on my experience of

15:41 ↗ how how we've done our code previously

15:45 ↗ i know i i take your point

15:49 ↗ and the other the other piece

15:51 ↗ um my point is that i was confused not

15:53 ↗ that it's wrong no no no no no but i

15:56 ↗ where you're confused we're likely to

15:58 ↗ have confusion later on so i think it's

16:01 ↗ a good point i also think the question

16:03 ↗ is um whether it's the total site or

16:06 ↗ just the amount of the site that's being

16:08 ↗ disturbed

16:10 ↗ so i think that there's definitely more

16:12 ↗ refinement needed there

16:14 ↗ okay my last question is about the

16:16 ↗ seasonal lighting

16:17 ↗ because this is something that we kind

16:18 ↗ of have

16:20 ↗ old code new code new ideas right so i

16:23 ↗ was a little bit confused

16:24 ↗ the seasonal lighting is it being

16:26 ↗ proposed that it's um

16:28 ↗ for 60 days total throughout like in the

16:31 ↗ calendar year or is it 60 continuous

16:34 ↗ days like in theory could you put it up

16:38 ↗ delight it for a week and then put it

16:40 ↗ back up

16:41 ↗ so what it says um is

16:44 ↗ 60 continuous days

16:46 ↗ off for 30 days

16:48 ↗ then you can do it another 60 days

16:51 ↗ so um

16:52 ↗ the idea is 120

16:55 ↗ per calendar year well no there's not a

16:57 ↗ maximum so basically you could have

17:00 ↗ some event every quarter

17:03 ↗ that you wanted to have the lighting up

17:05 ↗ for

17:06 ↗ um

17:07 ↗ [Music]

17:08 ↗ and but

17:09 ↗ we're this is why we're having a

17:10 ↗ discussion

17:12 ↗ okay i'll hold up on the discussion part

17:13 ↗ but that's what i guess i was trying to

17:14 ↗ figure out was what was being proposed

17:17 ↗ for the 60 days and since we previously

17:20 ↗ talked about holiday lighting in our old

17:22 ↗ code and now we're introducing the

17:24 ↗ concept of festival lighting i wanted to

17:26 ↗ know too are we separating these two

17:28 ↗ concepts or are we merging them all into

17:29 ↗ one happy festival bucket it's one happy

17:33 ↗ festival

17:34 ↗ you know i think what we call it is um

17:38 ↗ where the festival lighting includes

17:40 ↗ temporary lighting and seasonal lighting

17:43 ↗ in recognition that it occurs for a

17:45 ↗ number of different purposes

17:48 ↗ thank you very much for humoring my

17:50 ↗ questions lindsay

17:56 ↗ and actually for tonight joy because i

17:58 ↗ think tonight tonight's gonna be so

17:59 ↗ short you can blend comments

18:02 ↗ your deliberation and your questions

18:04 ↗ together if you want

18:08 ↗ oh oh you know me chair i have a lot of

18:10 ↗ comments so i'm gonna let someone else

18:12 ↗ go next okay

18:16 ↗ all right uh is there anyone else who

18:18 ↗ has a comment

18:21 ↗ or okay actually steven's saying let's

18:23 ↗ ask questions first so we're gonna stick

18:25 ↗ with the original plan

18:27 ↗ questions jason you have a question

18:30 ↗ i do chair

18:32 ↗ excellent you have the floor

18:34 ↗ so

18:35 ↗ lucy one quick question for you is where

18:37 ↗ did you guys get these seven threshold

18:40 ↗ um

18:41 ↗ is that pulled from a different part of

18:43 ↗ code

18:44 ↗ because i personally like consistency

18:47 ↗ so i'm just i am curious where did you

18:49 ↗ guys get that number

18:50 ↗ um so uh

18:54 ↗ i'll take a step back and say that 4 000

18:56 ↗ square feet for the small and simple

18:58 ↗ threshold

19:00 ↗ does come

19:01 ↗ from our existing code that is the

19:03 ↗ threshold at which you

19:05 ↗ one of the triggers for a land use

19:07 ↗ permit

19:09 ↗ so that one did come from our existing

19:11 ↗ code the seven units came from the model

19:14 ↗ lighting ordinance

19:16 ↗ um

19:16 ↗ i think that um

19:19 ↗ there

19:20 ↗ has been discussion is that too high um

19:24 ↗ you know maybe it should be lower on the

19:27 ↗ other hand

19:28 ↗ to not require a permit

19:30 ↗ might be encouraging of missing middle

19:33 ↗ you know keeping the costs down

19:36 ↗ for um uh housing

19:39 ↗ uh small project housing projects and so

19:42 ↗ we just left it at the model lighting

19:44 ↗ threshold of

19:46 ↗ seven

19:48 ↗ so there's people that actually think

19:49 ↗ the threshold should be higher

19:52 ↗ i haven't heard higher i've heard lower

19:55 ↗ okay

19:57 ↗ that's the only question i have at the

19:59 ↗ moment

20:03 ↗ okay thank you jason and uh

20:05 ↗ commissioners uh bader you have the

20:07 ↗ floor

20:08 ↗ yeah hi this is sarah bader i just have

20:10 ↗ a follow-up um question to that so

20:13 ↗ the seven unit threshold is just for

20:15 ↗ requiring a permit right it's not worth

20:17 ↗ complying with

20:19 ↗ code so they're still required to comply

20:21 ↗ it's just whether or not a permit is

20:22 ↗ triggered exactly

20:25 ↗ thanks

20:28 ↗ okay and thank you and

20:31 ↗ commissioner bader and commissioner

20:33 ↗ voice you have another question

20:35 ↗ i do

20:36 ↗ commissioner voice so one thing lucy

20:38 ↗ that has been a bit of a struggle for

20:39 ↗ myself is all of this is coming from

20:42 ↗ different parts of code and the one

20:44 ↗ thing that sometimes is not clear in our

20:45 ↗ packets is this

20:47 ↗ applicable to the entire city is this

20:50 ↗ just central issaquah is this just talus

20:52 ↗ uh there was some brief writing in our

20:53 ↗ agenda packet today talking about talus

20:55 ↗ and physical highlands being here i

20:58 ↗ think that doesn't have to do with the

20:59 ↗ lighting i think it's a different area

21:00 ↗ of our packet so my question is is this

21:03 ↗ lighting for the city throughout is it a

21:05 ↗ particular

21:06 ↗ area of the city are we talking about

21:08 ↗ central isoqua

21:09 ↗ because i know some of this stuff's

21:10 ↗ being imported from the old

21:13 ↗ town plan

21:15 ↗ are we talking about the entire city

21:17 ↗ so um

21:19 ↗ thanks um for helping me know when to

21:21 ↗ step back um

21:23 ↗ so we have three lighting codes right

21:26 ↗ now we have 1807 um 107 which is outdoor

21:32 ↗ lighting that applies outside of

21:35 ↗ central

21:37 ↗ isco highlands and talus

21:40 ↗ central has its own

21:42 ↗ lighting standards um chapter 17 and

21:46 ↗ when um talus and issaquah highlands

21:49 ↗ development agreements were terminated

21:51 ↗ uh they were brought mostly under the

21:55 ↗ central isqua umbrella so

21:57 ↗ esqui highlands talus and central are

22:00 ↗ under chapter 17. the rest of the city

22:03 ↗ is under uh 1807.

22:07 ↗ then old town had some additional

22:09 ↗ lighting standards

22:12 ↗ that just applied in old town the

22:14 ↗ proposal is to bring all of that

22:16 ↗ together and have one set of standards

22:19 ↗ for the entire city except where there

22:22 ↗ are still active development agreements

22:26 ↗ great again i like consistency so

22:29 ↗ even though i know that

22:30 ↗ different neighborhoods have specific

22:32 ↗ needs

22:33 ↗ i think it's the right direction

22:38 ↗ all right and thank you commissioner

22:39 ↗ royce so i have a question um so lucy uh

22:43 ↗ you said all this the lighting standard

22:46 ↗ for um

22:48 ↗ uh outlining buildings would be

22:51 ↗ would be prohibited in

22:53 ↗ old town but we have the eagles nest

22:56 ↗ levitate

22:59 ↗ fire by glas or art by glass

23:02 ↗ we have the apartment building

23:04 ↗ we have the village theater

23:06 ↗ finn's bistro

23:08 ↗ the teriyaki place and even the shell

23:10 ↗ gas station are all outlined

23:14 ↗ in

23:16 ↗ they're all lined with lights at the top

23:18 ↗ of the roof line so

23:20 ↗ how would you address that are you refer

23:22 ↗ are you suggesting we remove them

23:26 ↗ put shields over them

23:28 ↗ how does that work

23:30 ↗ so um

23:35 ↗ the outlining of buildings

23:38 ↗ was

23:38 ↗ prohibited and i'm trying to

23:41 ↗ find the exact page

23:45 ↗ in old town

23:46 ↗ doesn't mean that people haven't done

23:48 ↗ things

23:49 ↗ in the process

23:51 ↗ um

23:52 ↗ [Music]

23:54 ↗ because the shell gas station's owned by

23:55 ↗ the city

24:00 ↗ right

24:02 ↗ um

24:02 ↗ we are in violation of ourselves

24:05 ↗ well hopefully not um this has been

24:09 ↗ and and maybe the distinction

24:12 ↗ um chair fall is that is

24:15 ↗ that

24:17 ↗ is that

24:18 ↗ the code didn't allow outlining and neon

24:21 ↗ tubing

24:23 ↗ which was part of the reason why um we

24:27 ↗ were suggesting using the individual

24:29 ↗ lights rather than the um

24:34 ↗ continuous

24:37 ↗ lines

24:38 ↗ so um

24:39 ↗ i i think

24:41 ↗ you know these are why we bring these

24:43 ↗ this to the commission is to have a

24:45 ↗ discussion

24:46 ↗ i think we're we were bringing forward

24:48 ↗ what we were finding

24:50 ↗ um i think that

24:53 ↗ we're looking to you all to give us some

24:56 ↗ direction as well

24:58 ↗ okay and then i'll provide a comment and

25:02 ↗ when we have comments then

25:05 ↗ so uh

25:07 ↗ that's it for my question let's say

25:10 ↗ okay

25:11 ↗ uh

25:13 ↗ going to formally move over to comments

25:15 ↗ but before we do just want to clarify

25:18 ↗ does any of the commissioners have any

25:19 ↗ final questions before we move over to

25:21 ↗ and deliberate on comments

25:25 ↗ okay so we're going to go ahead and move

25:26 ↗ our chapter over to deliberations and

25:28 ↗ we're going to open with uh commissioner

25:30 ↗ lewis who has a comment

25:33 ↗ thank you sir fall i i want to start

25:36 ↗ this off by

25:37 ↗ with a comment that really goes to

25:40 ↗ monitoring and reporting i think that we

25:42 ↗ need to figure out how to provide for

25:44 ↗ that monitoring and reporting of light

25:46 ↗ pollution about how we're going to

25:47 ↗ identify it how it can be brought into

25:49 ↗ compliance that isn't reliant on a model

25:52 ↗ of

25:53 ↗ tattletail right of i'm going to try to

25:56 ↗ i'm going to call the city on my

25:57 ↗ neighbor i am very bothered by this and

26:00 ↗ i'm going to get so irritated so i'm

26:02 ↗ going to come and let it out on the

26:04 ↗ nearest civic employee i can find

26:06 ↗ um when we talk about bringing ourselves

26:10 ↗ into a new era

26:12 ↗ of um

26:13 ↗ of being in alignment with all of our

26:15 ↗ policies including our climate action

26:16 ↗ plan i think we need to talk about

26:18 ↗ something that's missing right now from

26:20 ↗ really our whole environmental buckets

26:22 ↗ one and two but i think model lighting

26:24 ↗ ordnance is a good example of being able

26:26 ↗ to identify where do we have lights that

26:29 ↗ have an egregious amount of spillover

26:30 ↗ right right now we're not mentioning

26:32 ↗ that in um in our code of having

26:34 ↗ interior lighting

26:36 ↗ spilling out but that's because we don't

26:39 ↗ really know is this is this an egregious

26:40 ↗ problem do we have this particular spot

26:42 ↗ in issaquah where we have an abundance

26:44 ↗ of light pollution and we can only know

26:46 ↗ that

26:47 ↗ from um a compliance officer or even the

26:50 ↗ city intern going around and looking at

26:53 ↗ what we have right now right that was

26:55 ↗ one of the questions that we had when we

26:56 ↗ were going talking about docklighting

26:58 ↗ right um

26:59 ↗ is this a current issue right um when we

27:01 ↗ were early in preliminary a year ago i

27:03 ↗ think that lighting right now is we're

27:05 ↗ missing a little bit of the um

27:08 ↗ of what is an issue and what needs to be

27:10 ↗ addressed and i think that goes to a

27:12 ↗ heart of talking about monitoring and

27:14 ↗ reporting so when ron brings up hey what

27:16 ↗ about this and what about this it's

27:18 ↗ something where

27:19 ↗ i i see a missing

27:21 ↗ issue right now with our lighting um

27:24 ↗ and so i kind of want to talk about

27:26 ↗ about that a little bit as far as um

27:29 ↗ right now in the code there's really no

27:32 ↗ provision for how we're going to be

27:34 ↗ moving forward right we have new

27:37 ↗ buildings and we need to bring in

27:38 ↗ compliance but we don't have anything

27:40 ↗ addressing where we have

27:42 ↗ some type of egregious light pollution

27:43 ↗ happening um right now our um

27:47 ↗ we know i think that that can also go to

27:49 ↗ how we communicate right with um the

27:52 ↗ community when we talk about an

27:53 ↗ education piece there also has to be an

27:55 ↗ awareness of hey maybe i didn't know

27:57 ↗ that my building was

28:00 ↗ you know emitting an egregious amount of

28:01 ↗ light um and so being able to work with

28:03 ↗ people by actually like letting them

28:06 ↗ know right i don't know that

28:07 ↗ um if you have a building you may not

28:09 ↗ necessarily even know that you're

28:11 ↗ in violation right and so leaving the

28:13 ↗ onus up on someone to figure something

28:15 ↗ that we don't even know out seems

28:17 ↗ problematic to me

28:19 ↗ um

28:20 ↗ but i do think it's really vital that we

28:21 ↗ stick to our goals right limiting

28:23 ↗ spillover requiring citywide standards

28:25 ↗ that adhere to the dark skies initiative

28:27 ↗ and reducing energy consumption um i

28:30 ↗ think it's extremely important that we

28:32 ↗ remember that we're doing this lighting

28:33 ↗ ordinance for a very for very important

28:35 ↗ reasons it's long overdue um

28:38 ↗ and i have some serious concerns right

28:40 ↗ now with the idea that we would be

28:42 ↗ allowing such a

28:45 ↗ huge amount of

28:47 ↗ holiday festival lighting i think it's

28:50 ↗ important that we remember that um

28:52 ↗ pollinators

28:54 ↗ are a vital part of our environment and

28:56 ↗ this is part of why we want to adhere to

28:58 ↗ the dark skies initiative uh is uh

29:01 ↗ right now pollination happens year-round

29:04 ↗ but the lowest portion of that is in the

29:06 ↗ winter so allowing there to be any type

29:08 ↗ of season where you can be having

29:11 ↗ an exemption is seriously concerning to

29:13 ↗ me so i do think that we need to

29:15 ↗ consider putting either a shorter time

29:17 ↗ frame because we do need to have

29:18 ↗ allowances for festivals but then that

29:20 ↗ needs to be like a week-long two-week

29:23 ↗ long time frame for instance

29:24 ↗ um or we need to be also specifying this

29:28 ↗ is when you're allowed to do it and

29:29 ↗ we're doing it in the lowest amount of a

29:31 ↗ pollination season that's happening

29:33 ↗ meaning that november december time

29:35 ↗ frame for instance

29:36 ↗ so i do think that we need to realign to

29:39 ↗ what our original goals are of spill

29:41 ↗ over of energy consumption for instance

29:44 ↗ uh when we talk about festival lighting

29:46 ↗ i also think it's really important to

29:48 ↗ remember that the code

29:49 ↗ and correct me if i'm wrong lucy

29:51 ↗ specifies

29:52 ↗ that um for instance if you have string

29:55 ↗ lights up if you have

29:56 ↗ um low voltage that it's for the length

29:59 ↗ of your business hours so even though

30:00 ↗ dark skies initiative is at 10 pm if

30:03 ↗ your business is operating until

30:04 ↗ midnight for instance then that

30:06 ↗ supersedes that 10 p.m and then your

30:09 ↗ lights need to come off so it's not like

30:11 ↗ people are sitting outside enjoying and

30:13 ↗ we're like oh

30:15 ↗ the lights are coming lights are coming

30:17 ↗ down right there's there's specific

30:18 ↗ provisions that have been written in the

30:19 ↗ code that we need to see is a middle

30:22 ↗ ground that already exists so um

30:25 ↗ i'll stop there for now i do have

30:27 ↗ comments because i know lucy you asked

30:28 ↗ for five questions so when you want to

30:30 ↗ come back to those five points i'll be

30:32 ↗ ready for that

30:34 ↗ well i'll leave that up to cheerful um

30:36 ↗ the one thing i would um

30:38 ↗ mention about the strings of lights

30:41 ↗ um and that and this is one of the

30:44 ↗ questions is

30:46 ↗ festival lights and like patio lights

30:50 ↗ are exempt

30:52 ↗ um

30:53 ↗ as long as so the strings of lights have

30:56 ↗ have a maximum light which is quite low

30:59 ↗ it's like 7 watts per bulb

31:02 ↗ but because they're in the exempt

31:04 ↗ section dark skies doesn't apply to them

31:08 ↗ to string lights yes

31:10 ↗ and so that means that the dark sky

31:14 ↗ hours don't apply to them

31:16 ↗ yes but what we're assuming right now is

31:18 ↗ that festival lighting holiday lighting

31:20 ↗ will be more than uh low voltage string

31:23 ↗ lights the same way that we talk about

31:25 ↗ low voltage with residential um

31:28 ↗ is we're assuming that people aren't

31:30 ↗ neoning their landscape lighting we're

31:32 ↗ making some assumptions right now in the

31:34 ↗ code but if a business were to have what

31:36 ↗ we're calling festival and holiday

31:38 ↗ lighting there's basically a provision

31:39 ↗ that talks about

31:41 ↗ dimming and talks about length of your

31:43 ↗ business hours uh superseding to when we

31:45 ↗ then adhere to the dark skies so i don't

31:48 ↗ want it to seem like it comes off like

31:50 ↗ we're having this highly prescriptive

31:52 ↗ lights out situation um i think that's

31:54 ↗ an important mention on the coat so

31:56 ↗ thanks everyone

32:01 ↗ thank you uh commissioner lewis and i

32:03 ↗ have a comment here um it's a kind of a

32:07 ↗ question comment reflection

32:10 ↗ if so many of our buildings have

32:13 ↗ permanent

32:17 ↗ outlining

32:19 ↗ which is probably close to a third of

32:22 ↗ old town

32:25 ↗ maybe part of the

32:27 ↗ our

32:28 ↗ title 18 should include putting those

32:30 ↗ types of lights on a timer circuit so

32:33 ↗ maybe an hour or two hours after dusk

32:37 ↗ or

32:38 ↗ maybe like uh

32:41 ↗ an hour after close of business

32:43 ↗ one that would address

32:46 ↗ energy efficiency two it would also

32:48 ↗ address the night skies initiative

32:51 ↗ and three it would allow flexibility for

32:54 ↗ the businesses to be able to continue

32:56 ↗ using lights

33:00 ↗ and it would be probably more of a

33:02 ↗ compromise and a win-win for

33:05 ↗ all parties involved so is there a way

33:08 ↗ that we could

33:09 ↗ add something like that is that

33:11 ↗ something what the commissioners think

33:12 ↗ would be

33:13 ↗ good

33:17 ↗ kind of a deliberate i'm looking at

33:19 ↗ everybody and i'm seeing nods

33:22 ↗ i don't like that idea okay

33:24 ↗ never mind scratch that

33:30 ↗ okay i've not seen any other comments

33:32 ↗ here

33:35 ↗ so

33:36 ↗ joy you said you had uh

33:39 ↗ more to share with us

33:42 ↗ cheerful did you want to

33:44 ↗ have lucy bring up she i just remember

33:46 ↗ in our packet there was five questions

33:48 ↗ that she was hoping to for us to be

33:49 ↗ dialoguing about and be giving

33:52 ↗ staff a response for for the next draft

33:55 ↗ and i didn't know if people wanted to

33:56 ↗ comment on those this would be a good

33:58 ↗ time lucy do you want to go ahead and go

34:00 ↗ through those questions now

34:06 ↗ can you see my screen

34:10 ↗ um so those are the five questions

34:16 ↗ and i'll leave it up to the chair to

34:21 ↗ facilitate as he sees fit

34:24 ↗ okay excellent thank you

34:26 ↗ all right so question one we'll discuss

34:28 ↗ is selling dwelling units the right

34:30 ↗ threshold for residential projects

34:36 ↗ and

34:37 ↗ jason has

34:38 ↗ a commissioner voice has clarification

34:42 ↗ thank you chairs so i'm going to step

34:44 ↗ back

34:45 ↗ to use lucy's words

34:46 ↗ bringing it back real quickly so just so

34:49 ↗ i understand this festival lighting

34:52 ↗ and patio lighting are exempt do i have

34:54 ↗ that correct you just mention that so

34:57 ↗ festival lighting as we had just

34:58 ↗ discussed

35:00 ↗ that's not the same as outline buildings

35:02 ↗ correct

35:05 ↗ uh

35:06 ↗ well i think

35:08 ↗ what's been pointed out to us is that we

35:10 ↗ exempt

35:12 ↗ the seasonal festival lighting and we

35:16 ↗ prohibit building outlining

35:19 ↗ and that those two are confusing and

35:23 ↗ potentially

35:24 ↗ in conflict with each other

35:26 ↗ and

35:27 ↗ so um

35:29 ↗ that's part of why we have question

35:31 ↗ number five

35:32 ↗ is to try and get guidance from the

35:34 ↗ commission on the best way to resolve

35:37 ↗ that conflict

35:38 ↗ and then to commissioner lewis's point

35:40 ↗ you know festival lighting includes

35:43 ↗ again whether it's halloween lights or

35:45 ↗ you have

35:47 ↗ i mean either a santa claus or a

35:49 ↗ hanukkiah something that's you know it's

35:51 ↗ it's completely it isn't neon light

35:53 ↗ i mean those would be allowed i would

35:55 ↗ imagine under festival lighting correct

35:58 ↗ you know you have a sled the whole thing

36:00 ↗ is outlined with a red neon

36:04 ↗ uh so there's um

36:08 ↗ it's defined as temporary

36:11 ↗ uh

36:12 ↗ installed in connection with holidays

36:14 ↗ festivals or traditions and there

36:18 ↗ is a maximum light level

36:20 ↗ per

36:22 ↗ you know light

36:24 ↗ so beyond that then you're able to do

36:27 ↗ whatever

36:29 ↗ you see fit

36:31 ↗ so if we were to go to festival instead

36:33 ↗ of holiday lighting and to the point

36:36 ↗ earlier with a 30-day break

36:38 ↗ people could have

36:41 ↗ neon

36:42 ↗ runners and streamers every 60 days on

36:45 ↗ their properties

36:46 ↗ and they'd be exempt

36:48 ↗ well this isn't going to get i'm trying

36:50 ↗ to find that this is the part that's

36:51 ↗ sticking with me i

36:52 ↗ i don't feel like i understand this at

36:54 ↗ all

36:55 ↗ this particular part

36:58 ↗ um

37:00 ↗ every 60 days you're allowed to have

37:04 ↗ temporary festival seasonal

37:06 ↗ lighting um

37:09 ↗ you can have it up for 60 days

37:11 ↗ then it can't be lit for 30 days at

37:13 ↗ least 30 days

37:15 ↗ so you could much of the year choose to

37:18 ↗ do something

37:20 ↗ i'm i'm not sure that um

37:23 ↗ you know it's it's the same

37:26 ↗ and maybe i'm conflating something but

37:28 ↗ it reminds me of the sign code when we

37:30 ↗ were trying to

37:31 ↗ figure out the frequency of um

37:35 ↗ political signs the non-commercial

37:38 ↗ temporary signs and we realize that we

37:40 ↗ don't have a problem now and trying to

37:44 ↗ specify exactly the frequency and then

37:47 ↗ enforce that was a lot so i don't think

37:50 ↗ we have a problem right now

37:53 ↗ with this kind of lighting i think many

37:56 ↗ people find it joyful

37:58 ↗ and so i think the question is if there

38:02 ↗ was

38:03 ↗ if a problem arose do we have something

38:06 ↗ that

38:07 ↗ begins to put some edges on

38:09 ↗ a situation to allow

38:14 ↗ a problem to be addressed

38:22 ↗ so is holiday lighting only currently

38:24 ↗ allowed in the in the winter

38:32 ↗ i mean we just celebrated two

38:34 ↗ big holidays passover and easter so can

38:36 ↗ i have an outline of an easter bunny and

38:39 ↗ a big thing of matzah

38:41 ↗ in my front yard

38:44 ↗ i guess again

38:46 ↗ well i'm just wondering because again

38:48 ↗ this is where i'm getting stuck

38:50 ↗ um you know i have my own opinions about

38:52 ↗ all of this i just the last thing i'd

38:54 ↗ want to do is come up with some

38:56 ↗ regulation that bans like you said

38:58 ↗ what's

38:59 ↗ very enjoyable for people i mean think

39:01 ↗ of halloween

39:02 ↗ where people put the scary stuff out in

39:04 ↗ their yard

39:05 ↗ that's my only concern right now is

39:08 ↗ are we like to your point are we

39:10 ↗ regulating something that's really

39:11 ↗ hasn't been a problem

39:13 ↗ um in

39:14 ↗ the goal of trying to make a consistent

39:17 ↗ and formidable code

39:19 ↗ and then you know in a year we find out

39:21 ↗ a lot of people don't like this that

39:22 ↗ don't appreciate it

39:24 ↗ again i'm just i'm stumbling upon that

39:26 ↗ the difference between holiday and

39:29 ↗ festival

39:30 ↗ so um what it says right now

39:33 ↗ in the in

39:35 ↗ 1807 107 is

39:38 ↗ temp holiday lights temporary lighting

39:40 ↗ displays for durations of 78 days or

39:44 ↗ less

39:45 ↗ typically associated with the holidays

39:47 ↗ taking place from november 15 through

39:50 ↗ january 31st of the following year

39:53 ↗ displays determined to have the

39:55 ↗ characteristics of a sign may be subject

39:57 ↗ to the provisions on that

39:59 ↗ holiday light displays with potential

40:02 ↗ traffic or environmental impacts may

40:04 ↗ require a special event permit

40:06 ↗ so that's what the current code

40:08 ↗ says the proposed code says temporary

40:12 ↗ seasonal slash festival lighting

40:15 ↗ provided that individual lamps are less

40:18 ↗ than 70 lumens

40:19 ↗ seasonal festival lighting is defined as

40:22 ↗ temporary lighting installed and

40:23 ↗ operated in connection with holidays

40:26 ↗ festivals or traditions

40:28 ↗ for this chapter temporary lighting is

40:30 ↗ defined as lighting installed and

40:33 ↗ operated for periods not to exceed 60

40:35 ↗ days completely removed and not operated

40:38 ↗ again for 30 days

40:41 ↗ so it actually sounds like we're opening

40:42 ↗ it up i'm getting that right at all

40:46 ↗ because again i think the very very

40:48 ↗ first thing you said as far as the codes

40:50 ↗ we have today again focuses on those

40:53 ↗ winter months

40:59 ↗ i think it is associated with

41:01 ↗ thanksgiving through

41:03 ↗ january

41:04 ↗ correct oh probably as good as i'm gonna

41:07 ↗ get it so all right

41:09 ↗ i'm ready to play with the questions

41:11 ↗ i'll let somebody go first

41:17 ↗ okay and

41:20 ↗ commissioner lewis you were next

41:24 ↗ thank you chair paul if you will humor

41:26 ↗ me i would like to start the buckets in

41:28 ↗ reverse because i want to go off those

41:30 ↗ good questions and comments that

41:32 ↗ commissioner boyce said so in addressing

41:34 ↗ number five i think that what i'm

41:38 ↗ understanding lucy

41:40 ↗ is that right now we're still

41:42 ↗ fine-tuning and i think that what we

41:44 ↗ need to do is actually specify in the

41:46 ↗ code winter months right so if we're

41:50 ↗ going to say 60 days for winter months

41:52 ↗ we can't start repeating that 60 days

41:55 ↗ one of the things that you just said

41:56 ↗ that was clear was completely removed

41:59 ↗ the cost to a business to completely

42:01 ↗ remove the outline of their building for

42:03 ↗ 30 days and then pay someone to then go

42:05 ↗ back and completely restring up those

42:08 ↗ lights right to then do another 60 days

42:11 ↗ they're going to leave the lights on the

42:12 ↗ building they're just going to flip the

42:13 ↗ switch off right so what we're trying to

42:15 ↗ avoid

42:17 ↗ is having

42:18 ↗ the old way that we had extreme amounts

42:22 ↗ of light pollution and yes light

42:23 ↗ pollution is a serious problem in our

42:26 ↗ community it has been and we're long

42:27 ↗ overdue for addressing it so when we get

42:30 ↗ into holiday lights it's a little a

42:32 ↗ little bit trickier and it has a little

42:34 ↗ bit more nuance to it

42:36 ↗ but the idea that we would allow

42:38 ↗ up any business whether it's a temporary

42:41 ↗ festival at any point in the year to

42:43 ↗ have 60 days right um is

42:47 ↗ to me

42:48 ↗ pretty doesn't fulfill the intent of

42:51 ↗ what we're trying to do with our model

42:52 ↗ lighting ordinance so i'd be happy to

42:55 ↗ take this offline i have plenty of ideas

42:57 ↗ of what we can do for to be more

42:59 ↗ prescriptive but i'm positive lucy that

43:01 ↗ um that you know that we need to in a

43:03 ↗ way

43:04 ↗ say this is what we're allowing for this

43:06 ↗ right and so whether it's sensing

43:09 ↗ two weeks right to allow for holidays

43:11 ↗ but i don't think what we're trying to

43:12 ↗ address is something that is um

43:16 ↗ reflecting of whatever holiday you

43:18 ↗ choose to celebrate at any point during

43:20 ↗ the year in your yard what we're worried

43:22 ↗ about is businesses leaving egregious

43:25 ↗ amounts of light on for the sake of some

43:28 ↗ type of aesthetic beauty what we

43:31 ↗ recognize is that the old way that we

43:33 ↗ consumed energy is not sustainable it's

43:37 ↗ not healthy for our environment we're

43:38 ↗ having really deleterious effects so

43:41 ↗ we're addressing that in one way with

43:42 ↗ our lead organs so we need to clean this

43:45 ↗ section up and when addressing point

43:47 ↗ five um to be a little more prescriptive

43:50 ↗ of saying

43:51 ↗ this is when we have a low pollination

43:53 ↗ season this is also when we tend to have

43:55 ↗ our lowest amount of light throughout

43:57 ↗ the year our darkest days this you know

43:59 ↗ went to lucy's point about people

44:01 ↗ finding joy in lights during a dark

44:03 ↗ times of year right i think there's a

44:05 ↗ lot of ways that we can include

44:07 ↗ something for everybody without having

44:09 ↗ this

44:10 ↗ free-for-all with um with the festival

44:14 ↗ lighting model things

44:19 ↗ thank you commissioners and commissioner

44:21 ↗ voice you have the floor

44:24 ↗ thank you chair so i'm just gonna follow

44:26 ↗ commissioner lewis's lead i'm just gonna

44:29 ↗ give you my opinion about question five

44:31 ↗ so i'm gonna take the opposite track

44:33 ↗ um i'm gonna forget the neon lights i'm

44:35 ↗ just gonna talk about as far as

44:37 ↗ buildings being outlined i think they

44:38 ↗ should be allowed you know i think of uh

44:40 ↗ paris the city of lights

44:43 ↗ it's hard for me to even

44:45 ↗ imagine

44:46 ↗ um

44:47 ↗ you know trying to put some of those

44:49 ↗ regulations on such a beautiful city i

44:51 ↗ personally think lights beautify the

44:52 ↗ city uh creates liveliness it creates

44:55 ↗ neighborhoods

44:56 ↗ um again i think we could probably have

44:58 ↗ separation between

45:00 ↗ areas like old town

45:02 ↗ areas like issaquah

45:04 ↗ islands commercial area

45:06 ↗ or central issaquah and i think we can

45:08 ↗ make distinctions between that

45:10 ↗ residential areas

45:12 ↗ but to me the idea of having a dim

45:15 ↗ downtown

45:16 ↗ and trying to follow the dark hours

45:19 ↗ um

45:20 ↗ that's horrible to me

45:22 ↗ i i would be very disappointed to see

45:24 ↗ something like that happen so i do think

45:26 ↗ i per and again this is just me talking

45:28 ↗ personally i i personally don't like

45:30 ↗ neon outlines i think the classic string

45:33 ↗ lights with the individual bulbs looks

45:34 ↗ classy

45:37 ↗ but

45:37 ↗ yeah i wouldn't be a fantasy in that

45:39 ↗ myself

45:40 ↗ and again i think of a major ruler not

45:43 ↗ rural but urban areas where again i mean

45:46 ↗ some of the fun of driving around at

45:47 ↗ night is to actually see these cities

45:49 ↗ and their buildings lit up

45:51 ↗ i live at the end of old town so

45:53 ↗ again for me to to imagine a 10 o'clock

45:56 ↗ dark sky or see the theater go

45:58 ↗ dark at 10 o'clock on a saturday night

46:01 ↗ because obviously it's not being used at

46:03 ↗ that time

46:04 ↗ to me that would be

46:06 ↗ sad

46:07 ↗ i don't think i'd like that at all

46:12 ↗ thank you commercial voice and

46:13 ↗ commissioner monahan you have the floor

46:16 ↗ yeah hi matt monahan uh i'm gonna side

46:19 ↗ with jason on this one i agree with the

46:21 ↗ uh ability to be able to outline uh with

46:24 ↗ lights not a fan of neon but uh

46:27 ↗ yeah i'm okay with allowing it

46:29 ↗ thanks

46:31 ↗ thank you commission monahan and

46:33 ↗ commissioner bader you have the floor

46:35 ↗ yeah hence the sara bader i'm jumping on

46:37 ↗ the same bandwagon i think that um

46:40 ↗ the outlining of buildings um again in

46:43 ↗ kind of the more commercial areas

46:44 ↗ creates a really nice sense of place um

46:47 ↗ that would be lost um without it i don't

46:49 ↗ think that they need to be on to like

46:50 ↗ two o'clock in the morning or you know

46:52 ↗ whatever but i think as long as you know

46:54 ↗ people are

46:55 ↗ around um you know there's i just i

46:58 ↗ think that we'd lose like a lot of sense

47:00 ↗ of

47:01 ↗ community um

47:02 ↗ and to jason's point kind of the

47:05 ↗ um joyfulness um of place if we took

47:08 ↗ that away

47:10 ↗ and thank you commissioner bader

47:12 ↗ okay um and

47:14 ↗ [Music]

47:16 ↗ i guess i'll go

47:18 ↗ so i actually like what joy lewis uh

47:22 ↗ brought to the table as well as uh what

47:25 ↗ jason brought to the table as well and

47:28 ↗ to my point earlier tonight

47:31 ↗ shielding so if two-thirds or a third of

47:34 ↗ downtown old town is a car right now has

47:39 ↗ outlined roof lines

47:41 ↗ with lights

47:43 ↗ why couldn't we

47:45 ↗ ask

47:47 ↗ the owners to put on

47:49 ↗ shields over the top of the lights to

47:51 ↗ help

47:52 ↗ eliminate

47:53 ↗ some of the light pollution that would

47:55 ↗ be going up into the sky

47:58 ↗ and so therefore

48:00 ↗ there would be more light reflected down

48:01 ↗ which would

48:02 ↗ i think solved some of the dark sky

48:05 ↗ issues

48:07 ↗ the business owners would be happier

48:09 ↗ with that outcome because then it would

48:11 ↗ be to jason's point it would be more

48:12 ↗ beautification to this to the

48:15 ↗ to the downtown it wouldn't look so dark

48:17 ↗ and gloomy

48:19 ↗ and put maybe

48:21 ↗ timer controls on it so at two o'clock

48:23 ↗ in the morning to sarah's point

48:26 ↗ you don't necessarily need all these

48:28 ↗ lights on because there isn't that much

48:29 ↗ traffic going through there at least

48:31 ↗ there's not

48:32 ↗ business traffic um coming through that

48:35 ↗ those times and so

48:37 ↗ that might be an option is to say

48:41 ↗ dark skies uh initiatives kicks in at a

48:44 ↗ certain time

48:45 ↗ so you have to have the

48:47 ↗ the

48:49 ↗ roofline lights turned off and

48:52 ↗ you have to put shielding over it

48:54 ↗ however you want to shield it i don't

48:56 ↗ know that's something that has to be

48:58 ↗ determined but

49:00 ↗ right now there isn't any shielding and

49:01 ↗ they're on

49:03 ↗ all night

49:04 ↗ um

49:05 ↗ so

49:07 ↗ yeah

49:08 ↗ uh commissioner lewis

49:10 ↗ i'll let you go for the comment

49:12 ↗ thank you chair paul just a quick point

49:14 ↗ of clarification dark skies initiative

49:17 ↗ is not one that aligns to darkness

49:19 ↗ actually maybe i think there seems to be

49:21 ↗ a little confusion it's actually a

49:23 ↗ dimming i believe our code calls for a

49:24 ↗ 30 reduction so it doesn't actually say

49:27 ↗ that now lights are no longer allowed

49:29 ↗ everything goes dark

49:31 ↗ there seems to be a little bit of a

49:33 ↗ confusion on what that is and so and to

49:35 ↗ ron's point where you place your lights

49:37 ↗ right whether it's under your eave or

49:39 ↗ whether it's basically stapled to the

49:40 ↗ outside outline does make a difference

49:43 ↗ on that spillover that ends up happening

49:45 ↗ um and causing that light pollution

49:47 ↗ thanks everyone

49:50 ↗ thank you commissioner

49:52 ↗ commissioner voice

49:54 ↗ yeah i think it's 30

49:56 ↗ is what the dimming is for dark sky but

49:58 ↗ again i'm just kind of imagining a nice

50:01 ↗ night out on the town saturday night

50:03 ↗ you're at um i guess we shouldn't plug

50:05 ↗ any brands so i'll just say you're on

50:07 ↗ you're on front street you're having a

50:09 ↗ drink with a buddy

50:11 ↗ and all of a sudden the lights go 30 dim

50:13 ↗ at 10 o'clock

50:14 ↗ i mean does that

50:15 ↗ does that start making people think oh

50:17 ↗ they're closing soon

50:19 ↗ and again that's my fear i'm i'm and

50:22 ↗ again this might be starting to go in

50:23 ↗ the wrong direction of what people want

50:25 ↗ but maybe lighting districts i don't

50:27 ↗ know but again i'd hate to see old town

50:29 ↗ start dimming down during the dark sky

50:31 ↗ hours at 10 o'clock i mean that's part

50:32 ↗ of the fun

50:33 ↗ um

50:35 ↗ again not every part of our city

50:37 ↗ is old town or again the issaquah

50:39 ↗ highlands commercial area or central

50:41 ↗ izakua

50:42 ↗ so i don't know if and again i know

50:44 ↗ we're trying to make this code

50:45 ↗ consistent across the board

50:47 ↗ but our city isn't consistent across the

50:50 ↗ board there's different needs in

50:51 ↗ different areas but again

50:53 ↗ um to commissioner lewis's point yeah it

50:55 ↗ does only dim about 30 percent

50:58 ↗ but again i it starts giving the

51:01 ↗ the feel that it's closing time soon and

51:03 ↗ i think it does start at 10

51:05 ↗ or whatever half hour after desk

51:07 ↗ so

51:09 ↗ again not not necessarily a fan in

51:11 ↗ certain areas again in residential areas

51:13 ↗ in certain you know definitely

51:15 ↗ um

51:16 ↗ commercial areas where

51:19 ↗ industrial areas

51:20 ↗ not really a problem but

51:22 ↗ some of our livelier areas were like the

51:24 ↗ h's or jacks

51:27 ↗ and i had someone tell me the other day

51:28 ↗ that they thought old town reminded them

51:30 ↗ of areas of old europe so that was a

51:33 ↗ nice compliment for our city

51:35 ↗ and again i just i can't fathom some of

51:37 ↗ these cities you know turning it down

51:40 ↗ in particular areas

51:43 ↗ myself

51:46 ↗ all right and thank you commissioner

51:47 ↗ voice

51:48 ↗ and commissioner lewis uh you have

51:51 ↗ another comment here

51:53 ↗ and i think after this we'll go ahead

51:54 ↗ and wrap this up and

51:57 ↗ lucy actually had her had her hand

51:59 ↗ raised ahead of me

52:00 ↗ the only thing i was going to add in

52:02 ↗ case it was useful to the commission is

52:04 ↗ we do have light zones

52:06 ↗ and so um

52:08 ↗ cbd and um

52:11 ↗ uh isqua highlands uh grand ridge plaza

52:14 ↗ are both

52:16 ↗ uh in the same light zone so there is a

52:19 ↗ possibility if that appeals to the

52:21 ↗ commissioners to tie certain things to

52:23 ↗ the light zone

52:28 ↗ chair paul i was just going to continue

52:30 ↗ the volley of saying that i thought that

52:32 ↗ when staff wrote in that the operating

52:35 ↗ hours of the business superseded dark

52:37 ↗ skies was a good workaround to that that

52:39 ↗ you may see for instance um a business

52:42 ↗ you're sitting on front street a

52:43 ↗ business that is closed not an operation

52:46 ↗ having their lights dimmed would be very

52:47 ↗ different than if you were sitting

52:48 ↗ actively in a space and having the

52:50 ↗ lights dimmed like a like a last call

52:52 ↗ um kind of a a nod right um that you

52:56 ↗ would still be sitting at your chosen

52:57 ↗ bar and the lighting would wouldn't be

52:59 ↗ affected as the way that it's written

53:00 ↗ right now

53:02 ↗ and i did want to notice make mention

53:04 ↗ that um

53:05 ↗ you know as we have this shift to more

53:07 ↗ of a climate focus cities around the

53:10 ↗ world are actually dimming their lights

53:11 ↗ paris is a great example sydney and in

53:14 ↗ fact throughout the year they actually

53:16 ↗ go completely dark to try to bring

53:17 ↗ awareness to this issue so other cities

53:20 ↗ are doing this we are not the first

53:23 ↗ pittsburgh is a great example

53:26 ↗ colorado has several cities for instance

53:28 ↗ uh so this is we are not leaders right

53:31 ↗ now

53:32 ↗ there are plenty of other cities who

53:34 ↗ find this is being very useful

53:38 ↗ and thank you commissioner lewis and to

53:40 ↗ commissioner lewis's point change is

53:42 ↗ always difficult um

53:45 ↗ and i kind of think back to fourth of

53:47 ↗ july some people think that we should

53:50 ↗ ban fireworks and other people are

53:53 ↗ feel that we shouldn't take you know

53:55 ↗ that's my patriot

53:56 ↗ that's how i i

53:58 ↗ show my patriotism and that's my freedom

54:00 ↗ to be able to use fireworks so

54:03 ↗ kind of this we're getting into that

54:04 ↗ topic now i think where people are going

54:06 ↗ to say well this is too much oversight

54:08 ↗ and so on but i agree i think

54:11 ↗ we need to start having that change and

54:14 ↗ it's just maybe more difficult

54:16 ↗ so

54:17 ↗ maybe not make them super strict moving

54:20 ↗ forward and then maybe

54:23 ↗ do an update in years after people

54:25 ↗ become more socially

54:27 ↗ um

54:29 ↗ adopted to them uh

54:31 ↗ okay i'm gonna stop babbling and i'm

54:34 ↗ gonna hand the floor back over to

54:37 ↗ mini who is going to go through

54:39 ↗ some of the recap of the changes that

54:41 ↗ we've had for the natural environment

54:43 ↗ topics

54:47 ↗ thank you cheerful and commissioners

54:50 ↗ so did we wrap this up as uh with some

54:53 ↗ sort of consensus on what are we doing

54:56 ↗ with uh the

54:58 ↗ the outlining of the buildings is there

55:01 ↗ i heard three

55:02 ↗ no's or three

55:05 ↗ votes so in favor of keeping the

55:07 ↗ outlining

55:08 ↗ i think we only answered question five

55:11 ↗ and maybe a little bit of four they took

55:14 ↗ the questions down so i assumed lucy was

55:16 ↗ happy with what we were saying

55:18 ↗ yeah i think we got a little bit more on

55:20 ↗ the presentation questions

55:22 ↗ so so to conclude the answers to

55:24 ↗ question five

55:26 ↗ um

55:27 ↗ sounds like there is this there isn't a

55:29 ↗ consensus on

55:32 ↗ um

55:33 ↗ outlining of the buildings but perhaps

55:36 ↗ having some sort of uh

55:38 ↗ limit on the lighting levels or

55:40 ↗ something like that but still allowing

55:43 ↗ um

55:44 ↗ outlining of the buildings and if

55:46 ↗ there's a way to for them to

55:48 ↗ uh have it under the eaves that's

55:50 ↗ preferred uh

55:52 ↗ option

55:54 ↗ or

55:55 ↗ yeah i i have an idea so

55:58 ↗ i think we could probably address some

56:00 ↗ of your concerns here so

56:02 ↗ pertaining to question five

56:04 ↗ how many people uh let's just say a show

56:07 ↗ of hands

56:09 ↗ feel that

56:10 ↗ we do not want neon lights

56:16 ↗ okay so that's unanimous so

56:19 ↗ many no neon lights okay

56:21 ↗ uh

56:24 ↗ i guess the next one would be how many

56:26 ↗ people feel that

56:28 ↗ it's okay to have

56:30 ↗ um string lights and

56:33 ↗ roof lines outlined

56:35 ↗ with individual incandescent or led

56:38 ↗ lights

56:39 ↗ like the way they are today

56:45 ↗ okay

56:46 ↗ so i think there's one um i don't see

56:50 ↗ let's see if i want to be able to see

56:51 ↗ everybody here three

56:53 ↗ three okay

56:55 ↗ uh

56:56 ↗ so

56:59 ↗ it's okay to allow the individual lights

57:01 ↗ like what i just said but this time add

57:04 ↗ a shield over the top of them so that

57:06 ↗ you don't have

57:09 ↗ extraneous light pollution

57:15 ↗ okay

57:17 ↗ and then

57:20 ↗ how many people would say and i think

57:22 ↗ that joy i want to make sure i include

57:24 ↗ your comment here

57:25 ↗ to have those lights removed

57:28 ↗ so that they are not on

57:31 ↗ but only for

57:33 ↗ 60 days

57:35 ↗ joy is that correct

57:37 ↗ you want to ask the question

57:39 ↗ i think we need to fine-tune a sea we

57:42 ↗ can call it a season of lighting which

57:44 ↗ is in a low pollination time and also in

57:47 ↗ a high festival time which kind of tends

57:49 ↗ to be for the last two months of the

57:51 ↗ year i think that uh outlinings of

57:53 ↗ buildings and things like that when we

57:55 ↗ would kind of have uh

57:58 ↗ more tend towards more lighting i think

58:00 ↗ would be written into the code

58:02 ↗ rather than i'm currently against the

58:04 ↗ idea that we would have 60 continuous

58:06 ↗ days 30 days off and i do want to point

58:08 ↗ out that right now

58:10 ↗ the language would say it needs to be

58:12 ↗ completely removed that language is very

58:15 ↗ particular

58:16 ↗ and so that would mean that all your

58:18 ↗ outlines of buildings would need to be

58:19 ↗ completely removed

58:22 ↗ if that's how we feel then we need to

58:24 ↗ be managing how that's being monitored

58:26 ↗ so to your point joy

58:28 ↗ um

58:29 ↗ that's

58:31 ↗ light's only off for 30 days in between

58:34 ↗ instead of being physically removed

58:36 ↗ would be acceptable

58:39 ↗ no i think we should limit to 60 days i

58:42 ↗ don't think that the 30 and then the 60

58:44 ↗ right and so if you're if you're gonna

58:46 ↗ say the completely removed then i say we

58:49 ↗ i mean i think that's an extreme use of

58:52 ↗ of a business's resources uh so instead

58:54 ↗ i would propose a season of lighting

58:57 ↗ that also um

58:58 ↗ aligns to when our community is darkest

59:01 ↗ and people would like to have um more

59:04 ↗ festival lighting because we have tend

59:06 ↗ to have a lot of different holidays

59:07 ↗ during a time right i think there's a

59:08 ↗ lot of justification for there being a

59:11 ↗ period of time rather than continuous

59:14 ↗ outlining of buildings throughout these

59:19 ↗ [Music]

59:21 ↗ uh code which has one time a year when

59:24 ↗ you're allowed to do it

59:27 ↗ but right i think it's like 78 days or

59:29 ↗ something it's it's it's pretty it's

59:31 ↗ pretty long uh so i would i would i like

59:33 ↗ the idea of a 60 because i think it it

59:36 ↗ makes a lot more sense when we talk

59:37 ↗ about um fall pollination it's pretty

59:39 ↗ vital

59:40 ↗ that

59:42 ↗ the

59:43 ↗ insect and pollination members of our

59:44 ↗ community be able to get the stores that

59:46 ↗ they need to be able to then migrate and

59:49 ↗ so fall uh pollination is something

59:51 ↗ that's often overlooked and extremely

59:53 ↗ vital to keeping that system of rotation

59:55 ↗ going around in the hemisphere

59:57 ↗ okay okay so two translations open

1:00:00 ↗ cheerful can i interject

1:00:03 ↗ okay

1:00:04 ↗ yes yeah

1:00:05 ↗ so real quickly because i feel like a

1:00:07 ↗ light bulb just went off above my head

1:00:09 ↗ um so i think if i'm getting this

1:00:11 ↗ correctly we're talking about seasonal

1:00:13 ↗ lighting and i guess to to commissioner

1:00:15 ↗ lewis's point and maybe this was what

1:00:17 ↗ lucy was trying to explain again this

1:00:19 ↗ has nothing to do with the building

1:00:20 ↗ outlinings this has nothing to do with

1:00:22 ↗ anything we're talking about as far as

1:00:23 ↗ old town or the zoning lighting

1:00:25 ↗ this is just seasonal lighting and again

1:00:27 ↗ i i can get behind that i can get behind

1:00:30 ↗ you know whether it's 60 days or 30 days

1:00:33 ↗ i think you're gonna have a hard time

1:00:34 ↗ getting people i mean everybody knows

1:00:36 ↗ what happens around

1:00:38 ↗ christmas i mean those lights it getting

1:00:40 ↗ people to pull that stuff down is you

1:00:42 ↗ know it's kind of like a cultural

1:00:45 ↗ sticking point for people right people

1:00:47 ↗ put up their lights right after

1:00:48 ↗ thanksgiving so

1:00:50 ↗ definitely funny as sitcom

1:00:52 ↗ but i think i can get behind that i just

1:00:53 ↗ want to make sure i'm understanding what

1:00:54 ↗ we're talking about seasonal lighting

1:00:57 ↗ festival lighting

1:00:58 ↗ and then yeah we don't want to see rope

1:01:00 ↗ lights go up every 30 days or neon

1:01:02 ↗ lights going up every 30 days this has

1:01:04 ↗ nothing to do with what we were talking

1:01:05 ↗ about as far as building outlining we're

1:01:07 ↗ talking about santas and sleds and

1:01:10 ↗ you know menorahs and stuff all year

1:01:12 ↗ round in people's yards

1:01:15 ↗ correct

1:01:18 ↗ feels like i was onto something i had

1:01:20 ↗ like an epiphany

1:01:21 ↗ maybe that wasn't it

1:01:25 ↗ well i don't want to take away from

1:01:27 ↗ joy's

1:01:29 ↗ i think i was hoping i was adding stuff

1:01:30 ↗ but maybe i wasn't

1:01:32 ↗ so joy are you let's just clarify

1:01:38 ↗ are you referring to seasonal only so 60

1:01:41 ↗ days that's it or are you referring to

1:01:43 ↗ permanent

1:01:44 ↗ outdoor lighting of roof lines and

1:01:46 ↗ buildings

1:01:48 ↗ i am against the permanent lighting of

1:01:50 ↗ roof lines they cause spillover which

1:01:53 ↗ causes an extreme amount of light

1:01:55 ↗ pollution that causes an egregious

1:01:57 ↗ amount of

1:01:58 ↗ over consumption of energy and affects

1:02:01 ↗ nighttime pollination which is a huge

1:02:03 ↗ part of our supply of our food supply

1:02:06 ↗ system

1:02:07 ↗ and i think that our outdoor lighting

1:02:10 ↗ ordinance needs to address several

1:02:12 ↗ issues that we have brought up as a

1:02:14 ↗ community and aligned to in the climate

1:02:16 ↗ action plan

1:02:17 ↗ i also think that we should be allowing

1:02:20 ↗ for there to be additional use of

1:02:22 ↗ lighting during seasonal times and i

1:02:25 ↗ think that it would be fine to be highly

1:02:27 ↗ prescriptive as to when that is

1:02:30 ↗ so i think staff has my comments and i

1:02:32 ↗ think that they would um align to a lot

1:02:35 ↗ of the comments that have been made by

1:02:37 ↗ the environmental board and so they're

1:02:38 ↗ not new comments that they've heard so

1:02:40 ↗ i'm confident the staff understands

1:02:42 ↗ where i'm coming from and i look forward

1:02:44 ↗ to seeing where they how they want to

1:02:46 ↗ gather and move forward since it sounds

1:02:48 ↗ like there is a majority on the

1:02:50 ↗ commission that thinks that um the

1:02:51 ↗ outlining of buildings should be exempt

1:02:54 ↗ from that

1:02:55 ↗ okay and so let's uh show uh uh show it

1:02:59 ↗ hands that support joy lewis's

1:03:04 ↗ ideas of moving forward

1:03:10 ↗ okay

1:03:11 ↗ and so

1:03:13 ↗ uh

1:03:14 ↗ now we've answered that um

1:03:17 ↗ i guess

1:03:19 ↗ let's just hit number four really fast

1:03:21 ↗ because i think we can knock that one

1:03:22 ↗ out uh should exempt lighting such as

1:03:24 ↗ cafe and festival string lights have to

1:03:26 ↗ be turned off to comply with dark sky

1:03:28 ↗ hours

1:03:30 ↗ that sounds like it's referring to

1:03:33 ↗ string lights

1:03:35 ↗ specifically

1:03:39 ↗ such as like outdoor lighting for bars

1:03:41 ↗ and things like that

1:03:44 ↗ show hands

1:03:47 ↗ do we want those to be turned off to

1:03:48 ↗ comply with dark sky hours

1:03:54 ↗ and what is dark sky hours

1:03:58 ↗ 10 p.m

1:04:00 ↗ to 6 a.m or 30 minutes after close and

1:04:04 ↗ 30 minutes before opening

1:04:07 ↗ okay

1:04:10 ↗ i can go with that

1:04:13 ↗ there's no reason why an outdoor cafe

1:04:14 ↗ should have string lights on

1:04:16 ↗ um after hours

1:04:20 ↗ i'm in support of that

1:04:24 ↗ okay

1:04:26 ↗ uh see

1:04:28 ↗ should single family resident properties

1:04:29 ↗ be allowed to have low voltage landscape

1:04:31 ↗ lighting

1:04:33 ↗ do we want to comment on that do we just

1:04:35 ↗ want to take a show of hands right now

1:04:36 ↗ and

1:04:38 ↗ do we support it do we not support it

1:04:40 ↗ low voltage lighting is probably less

1:04:42 ↗ than 20 watts per light which is

1:04:44 ↗ probably

1:04:45 ↗ 70 lumens

1:04:49 ↗ i think the question though should be

1:04:52 ↗ is the outdoor landscape lighting

1:04:54 ↗ pointing up or is it shielded

1:04:59 ↗ is there a difference

1:05:00 ↗ lucy

1:05:02 ↗ um

1:05:04 ↗ sometimes people like to point the

1:05:05 ↗ lights up to trees to highlight the

1:05:08 ↗ trunks sometimes they're in the trees

1:05:10 ↗ pointing down

1:05:13 ↗ is there a distinction is there a

1:05:14 ↗ difference

1:05:16 ↗ so the low voltage lighting is defined

1:05:19 ↗ as less than 24 volts

1:05:22 ↗ and

1:05:24 ↗ has an output of

1:05:29 ↗ 525 lumens which is

1:05:34 ↗ 800 lumens is 12 watts so we're talking

1:05:37 ↗ pretty low

1:05:38 ↗ um

1:05:40 ↗ and then there's

1:05:42 ↗ it's such a technical thing and then

1:05:44 ↗ there's line voltage on landscape

1:05:46 ↗ lighting which is even lower so

1:05:51 ↗ i think it is low voltage low output

1:05:56 ↗ lighting

1:05:57 ↗ that is in the landscape i'm not sure it

1:06:01 ↗ doesn't specify whether it points up or

1:06:04 ↗ not

1:06:06 ↗ but the model lighting ordinance does

1:06:08 ↗ not include this

1:06:10 ↗ in the zone that includes all single

1:06:13 ↗ family

1:06:14 ↗ and so there was a comment from the

1:06:16 ↗ community that they were concerned that

1:06:19 ↗ landscape lighting was being precluded

1:06:24 ↗ i don't know that we want to regulate

1:06:26 ↗ that if it's even an issue we might be a

1:06:29 ↗ problem looking for a solute or we might

1:06:31 ↗ be a solution looking for a problem in

1:06:33 ↗ that case

1:06:34 ↗ uh

1:06:35 ↗ what do commissioners think

1:06:42 ↗ and

1:06:45 ↗ commissioner of uh voice you have

1:06:47 ↗ actually the commissioner lutz did you

1:06:49 ↗ just go or did you put in a question

1:06:51 ↗ already

1:06:53 ↗ uh i did but i'm happy to go after

1:06:55 ↗ commissioner

1:06:56 ↗ i think actually

1:06:58 ↗ commissioner baiter beat us both

1:07:01 ↗ oh you're right okay uh commissioner

1:07:03 ↗ bader no that's okay my comment was um

1:07:06 ↗ back on the festival lighting so if we

1:07:08 ↗ go back to that topic i can comment on

1:07:10 ↗ that but i'll pass for now

1:07:12 ↗ well you didn't comment on it before so

1:07:15 ↗ um

1:07:17 ↗ let's focus on this question first and

1:07:19 ↗ then we'll come back to your festival

1:07:21 ↗ lighting but be sure to remind me so i

1:07:22 ↗ don't forget okay

1:07:24 ↗ okay uh mr lewis

1:07:28 ↗ thank you i do not think that we need to

1:07:30 ↗ be regulating low voltage lighting

1:07:33 ↗ if the city finds that this is um an

1:07:36 ↗ issue right um for instance let's let's

1:07:38 ↗ say that we we believe this to be an

1:07:40 ↗ issue and so we're trying to um correct

1:07:42 ↗ this right now in the current

1:07:44 ↗ model ordering

1:07:45 ↗ model lighting ordinance i think we need

1:07:47 ↗ to have a clear distinction between low

1:07:49 ↗ voltage pathway lighting versus upshot

1:07:52 ↗ landscape lighting

1:07:54 ↗ which

1:07:54 ↗ diffuses an extreme amount of light into

1:07:57 ↗ um you know into the atmosphere and so

1:08:00 ↗ then what i would say is that we should

1:08:01 ↗ really be um applying dark skies for

1:08:04 ↗ dimmability and we all should also be

1:08:05 ↗ having the use of timers there's no

1:08:07 ↗ reason why a tree needs to be lit at 3am

1:08:10 ↗ so we need to have a distinction in our

1:08:12 ↗ code if we do want to be more

1:08:14 ↗ prescriptive on our residential uh that

1:08:16 ↗ the use of timers needs to be mandatory

1:08:18 ↗ um to ron's point earlier i think is a

1:08:20 ↗ good thing but low voltage right now i

1:08:22 ↗ think is not not an issue and we

1:08:24 ↗ especially want to be able to have um

1:08:28 ↗ solar lights right things like that

1:08:29 ↗ where we want to be encouraging how

1:08:31 ↗ we're consuming and using our energy

1:08:33 ↗ right here in the residential lighting

1:08:34 ↗ area

1:08:37 ↗ thank you and commissioner voice you

1:08:39 ↗ have the floor

1:08:42 ↗ so i'll just briefly add uh yes

1:08:45 ↗ um

1:08:48 ↗ yes they should be allowed to have low

1:08:50 ↗ voltage landscape lighting i think one

1:08:52 ↗ of the other things that wasn't

1:08:53 ↗ mentioned is enforcement becomes a very

1:08:55 ↗ big problem if we were trying to

1:08:56 ↗ regulate this

1:08:58 ↗ this is one area where i'm all in favor

1:09:01 ↗ with dark sky hours because again

1:09:04 ↗ after a certain time period it's you

1:09:06 ↗ know people aren't driving around at 11

1:09:07 ↗ 30 at night

1:09:09 ↗ um

1:09:10 ↗ so again i'm all in favor for that

1:09:13 ↗ i'll leave it there but yes

1:09:16 ↗ okay and thank you commissioner voice

1:09:18 ↗ and now we'll go back to commissioner

1:09:19 ↗ bader so uh go ahead and re ask your

1:09:22 ↗ question

1:09:23 ↗ sure it's a just a comment um and not to

1:09:26 ↗ kind of keep going on and on about this

1:09:28 ↗ but

1:09:29 ↗ i just wanted to say that i think um

1:09:31 ↗ [Music]

1:09:33 ↗ from

1:09:34 ↗ it's not like an equity standpoint but i

1:09:36 ↗ don't think that we should be like

1:09:37 ↗ regulating the holidays that people are

1:09:39 ↗ allowed to like celebrate on their

1:09:42 ↗ yard so from that perspective i like the

1:09:44 ↗ idea of being able to kind of put

1:09:46 ↗ something out you know at different

1:09:47 ↗ parts of the year based on what it is

1:09:49 ↗ that you like personally want to

1:09:50 ↗ celebrate that being said i don't think

1:09:52 ↗ you need 60 days i think to um

1:09:54 ↗ commissioner lewis's point like a two

1:09:55 ↗ week you know like even if it's like

1:09:58 ↗ halloween for example right i put lights

1:09:59 ↗ out on halloween like on halloween for

1:10:02 ↗ that like one day right

1:10:04 ↗ um

1:10:05 ↗ so i don't think it needs to be 60 days

1:10:06 ↗ i think 60 days is really excessive but

1:10:08 ↗ you know do we allow for like a week or

1:10:10 ↗ two weeks um

1:10:12 ↗ throughout the year um as an alternative

1:10:16 ↗ okay and thank you commissioner banner

1:10:20 ↗ okay uh commissioner monahan do you have

1:10:22 ↗ anything you'd like to add your feedback

1:10:24 ↗ is always great

1:10:28 ↗ on question three i agree we should not

1:10:30 ↗ be regulating low voltage landscape

1:10:32 ↗ lighting at the time at this time

1:10:34 ↗ okay

1:10:36 ↗ and moving on question two is a 4 000

1:10:39 ↗ square foot building and a half acre 21

1:10:42 ↗ 000 square feet property the right

1:10:43 ↗ threshold for distinguishing small and

1:10:45 ↗ simple complex non-residential

1:10:47 ↗ multi-family projects

1:10:50 ↗ and commissioner lewis you have the

1:10:52 ↗ report

1:10:54 ↗ thank you chair fall i'm going to

1:10:55 ↗ reiterate something that i kind of

1:10:57 ↗ alluded to in my question and that

1:10:59 ↗ really is that i think that the question

1:11:00 ↗ you posed to us really gives us another

1:11:02 ↗ question is are we lowering it are we

1:11:04 ↗ raising it i mean i would tend to go

1:11:07 ↗ with whatever's lower so i would have us

1:11:09 ↗ be a little bit more prescriptive right

1:11:12 ↗ now in the code rather than having this

1:11:14 ↗ mention of both the square feet of the

1:11:15 ↗ property and the building um i think

1:11:18 ↗ that it's i think it's a little bit

1:11:19 ↗ muddy right now um and so i think that

1:11:22 ↗ whatever the city decides the threshold

1:11:24 ↗ is that they're comfortable with just

1:11:26 ↗ pick the lower one and then have

1:11:27 ↗ language that says in the absence of

1:11:29 ↗ having a building on a lot then this is

1:11:31 ↗ what it is

1:11:32 ↗ thanks

1:11:35 ↗ and commissioner voice

1:11:39 ↗ thank you commissioner voice so i

1:11:41 ↗ believe number two and one are pretty

1:11:42 ↗ much intertwined right

1:11:44 ↗ those are the threshold questions i

1:11:46 ↗ believe lucy

1:11:47 ↗ answered this for me earlier uh these

1:11:49 ↗ are kind of tied these are the numbers

1:11:51 ↗ that were pulled from land use permits

1:11:53 ↗ so again i for me i kind of like

1:11:55 ↗ consistency where people can look at

1:11:57 ↗ this part of the code or this title and

1:11:59 ↗ this title and everything kind of lines

1:12:01 ↗ up

1:12:02 ↗ so i'm in favor of keeping them

1:12:04 ↗ i i like the thresholds and i think i

1:12:06 ↗ like the reasoning why

1:12:08 ↗ so unless somebody can convince me why

1:12:10 ↗ it should be lower or why it should be

1:12:11 ↗ higher

1:12:13 ↗ i like the consistency again it's tied

1:12:15 ↗ to something that we can point to and go

1:12:17 ↗ it's tied to the land use permit

1:12:23 ↗ thank you commissioner voice and

1:12:24 ↗ commissioner monahan you have a comment

1:12:27 ↗ yeah just a quick second to what jason

1:12:29 ↗ just said uh yes to one and two

1:12:32 ↗ okay thank you and commissioner bader do

1:12:34 ↗ you have the floor

1:12:35 ↗ thanks uh sarah bader yeah i agree i

1:12:37 ↗ think yes to one and two i think

1:12:39 ↗ especially like not wanting to be overly

1:12:42 ↗ burdensome and um in light of my

1:12:44 ↗ question before just confirming that

1:12:45 ↗ they do still have to comply

1:12:47 ↗ um and so given that i think yes

1:12:51 ↗ thank you and commissioner lewis you

1:12:53 ↗ have the floor

1:12:55 ↗ thank you chairfall i would agree and i

1:12:57 ↗ would encourage staff to basically

1:12:58 ↗ decide what they want the threshold to

1:13:01 ↗ be commissioner boyce's comment about

1:13:02 ↗ consistency is something that we're

1:13:04 ↗ aiming for with this current title 18

1:13:06 ↗ code update i think before we've seen in

1:13:08 ↗ other language that it would be five

1:13:10 ↗ when we're talking about the use of um

1:13:13 ↗ having a thorough um having a having an

1:13:16 ↗ access row being able to have certain

1:13:18 ↗ amenities for outdoor spaces be included

1:13:20 ↗ right there's a whole kind of package of

1:13:22 ↗ where we're having a threshold

1:13:24 ↗ with the intent also trying to entice a

1:13:26 ↗ missing middle within our community so i

1:13:28 ↗ do think that whether that lands on five

1:13:30 ↗ units versus seven units i think whether

1:13:33 ↗ it's nine i think the city needs to come

1:13:35 ↗ to a consensus so that throughout the

1:13:37 ↗ code we have one consistent this is

1:13:39 ↗ where we feel this is a small building

1:13:42 ↗ um amount versus a medium building

1:13:44 ↗ amount if city wants that to be five

1:13:47 ↗ versus seven i i just kind of want you

1:13:49 ↗ guys to tell me what you want and then

1:13:50 ↗ we can have a debate on that but right

1:13:52 ↗ now i

1:13:53 ↗ i care more about a consistency

1:13:54 ↗ throughout code thank you

1:13:58 ↗ all right and thank you commissioners

1:13:59 ↗ okay now with that i think we answered

1:14:02 ↗ all

1:14:03 ↗ one through five questions lucy do you

1:14:05 ↗ have any feedback or clarification

1:14:07 ↗ questions for the commissioners before

1:14:09 ↗ we move to

1:14:13 ↗ that was many thank you

1:14:15 ↗ okay excellent so with that said minnie

1:14:17 ↗ you would you like to take the floor

1:14:19 ↗ again i know we gave it to you before

1:14:20 ↗ but

1:14:21 ↗ all yours now

1:14:23 ↗ sure uh good evening um chair fall and

1:14:26 ↗ the rest of the commissioners and

1:14:27 ↗ members of the community so um we just

1:14:30 ↗ wanted to um you know circle back with

1:14:32 ↗ you on what we heard from you on the

1:14:34 ↗ other topics

1:14:36 ↗ uh we took that feedback to a council

1:14:39 ↗ study session

1:14:41 ↗ and then we included in your packet a

1:14:43 ↗ list of things that that are going to be

1:14:45 ↗ guiding us uh to

1:14:47 ↗ work on the draft the second draft of

1:14:50 ↗ all of these topics

1:14:52 ↗ so i'm happy to go through that list of

1:14:54 ↗ you know it of course includes all these

1:14:56 ↗ topics of the shoreline the wetlands the

1:14:59 ↗ fish and wildlife but if you s you know

1:15:02 ↗ really what we want to

1:15:04 ↗ do is to make sure that you all feel

1:15:06 ↗ we've captured all your concerns in that

1:15:09 ↗ list or if you have anything that you

1:15:11 ↗ feel is missing that we need to include

1:15:16 ↗ so

1:15:17 ↗ you know i don't have anything else

1:15:19 ↗ other than what was in your packet for

1:15:20 ↗ that list but i'm happy to bring that up

1:15:22 ↗ on on the screen if it's helpful

1:15:25 ↗ yeah many i think would be good is if we

1:15:27 ↗ went through the list like uh

1:15:31 ↗ and and that way we were able you could

1:15:33 ↗ ask the questions and the clarification

1:15:36 ↗ and then we could close out and move on

1:15:38 ↗ to the next topic because you've got a

1:15:40 ↗ couple topics here so i want to make

1:15:41 ↗ sure that you

1:15:43 ↗ we answer what you're looking for

1:15:46 ↗ sure so let's see if i share my

1:16:00 ↗ that's not what i wanted to share

1:16:05 ↗ you guys able to see my screen that says

1:16:07 ↗ shoreline management plan on the top

1:16:13 ↗ no it says chapter 18.612 community

1:16:16 ↗ amenity spaces okay well let's see adobe

1:16:20 ↗ let me try one more time pdf

1:16:23 ↗ so i'm just going to share my screen

1:16:25 ↗ [Music]

1:16:31 ↗ there you go

1:16:33 ↗ okay great

1:16:34 ↗ um

1:16:35 ↗ so starting off with the shoreline

1:16:38 ↗ master program um so we heard um and you

1:16:42 ↗ know we were planning to do this uh was

1:16:44 ↗ when we finished the conversation in the

1:16:45 ↗ critical areas because two of the

1:16:47 ↗ streams

1:16:49 ↗ are designated as shorelines of the

1:16:51 ↗ state that we would

1:16:52 ↗ reference the correct sections

1:16:55 ↗ we would since the critical area

1:16:57 ↗ discussion has removed the stream buffer

1:16:59 ↗ reduction and buffer averaging that we

1:17:00 ↗ would incorporate some of those changes

1:17:03 ↗ um

1:17:04 ↗ the other thing was um docklighting um

1:17:08 ↗ there was general consensus um

1:17:10 ↗ that

1:17:11 ↗ we've you know we met the

1:17:14 ↗ what was proposed in the code there was

1:17:16 ↗ general consensus about that

1:17:18 ↗ and you'd asked city council to provide

1:17:20 ↗ some additional resources for support so

1:17:22 ↗ more programmatic things needed but the

1:17:24 ↗ code was fine

1:17:25 ↗ uh also at your discussion you talked

1:17:28 ↗ about the bulkhead removal

1:17:30 ↗ instead of as an incentive uh

1:17:33 ↗ for a reduction in the buffer

1:17:35 ↗ um

1:17:36 ↗ one of you had expressed the desire to

1:17:39 ↗ keep the incentive and the requirement

1:17:41 ↗ based approach this was where you

1:17:43 ↗ actually get to reduce your buffer if

1:17:45 ↗ you take your heart armoring from your

1:17:47 ↗ shoreline away

1:17:48 ↗ at this point at this stage what we

1:17:50 ↗ shared with you in the draft was that

1:17:52 ↗ has you know uh you have to meet the

1:17:54 ↗ minimum setback there isn't an incentive

1:17:56 ↗ that if you remove your

1:17:59 ↗ hard armoring that you get a smaller

1:18:00 ↗ buffer you if you redevelop or build a

1:18:03 ↗ new home

1:18:04 ↗ along like some amish you would have to

1:18:06 ↗ take your

1:18:07 ↗ you would have to create a more softer

1:18:10 ↗ shoreline

1:18:11 ↗ and which is better for ecologically and

1:18:14 ↗ also you would need to meet the setbacks

1:18:15 ↗ so that's in the draft right now

1:18:18 ↗ and obviously we'll be um coordinating

1:18:20 ↗ with department of ecology because they

1:18:21 ↗ have to formally approve this

1:18:24 ↗ shoreline management uh plan uh after

1:18:27 ↗ city council takes an action on it so

1:18:29 ↗ that was that

1:18:31 ↗ um

1:18:32 ↗ i can pause now and let you all say

1:18:36 ↗ everything good there or did we

1:18:39 ↗ any more discussion needed

1:18:42 ↗ okay and looks like commissioner lewis

1:18:44 ↗ has a comment

1:18:47 ↗ thank you chair fall uh many i for this

1:18:49 ↗ section on the shoreline management plan

1:18:52 ↗ i do recall there being one additional

1:18:54 ↗ point and that was that

1:18:55 ↗ we felt that council had given us a

1:18:58 ↗ pretty narrow

1:18:59 ↗ list of things to look at in regards to

1:19:02 ↗ the s p

1:19:03 ↗ as uh the s p had been done in 2019

1:19:06 ↗ council had said we want you to go back

1:19:08 ↗ and deal with i believe there was three

1:19:09 ↗ or four things we felt that we needed to

1:19:12 ↗ address the specific scope however there

1:19:14 ↗ was uh there was many voices saying that

1:19:18 ↗ the s p needed to be looked at in a

1:19:21 ↗ broader scope in terms of both the

1:19:22 ↗ climate action plan as well as the whole

1:19:25 ↗ title 18 overhaul so

1:19:28 ↗ the planning policy commission actually

1:19:30 ↗ had a pretty narrow view and scope and

1:19:32 ↗ so if council wishes to open it up

1:19:34 ↗ further that's fine if they don't that's

1:19:36 ↗ fine as well but we were answering the

1:19:38 ↗ questions that were posed to us for this

1:19:40 ↗ rather than giving a larger opinion as

1:19:42 ↗ we're doing with everything else so i do

1:19:44 ↗ think that that clarification is

1:19:45 ↗ important

1:19:46 ↗ thank you

1:19:50 ↗ okay and thank you commercial lewis any

1:19:52 ↗ additional comments

1:19:55 ↗ okay

1:19:57 ↗ many okay so the next uh one is the

1:20:00 ↗ general section in the uh aquatic

1:20:03 ↗ critical areas section so there was

1:20:05 ↗ discussion about reasonable use

1:20:07 ↗ exception how they're different than the

1:20:08 ↗ variances we will look at add more

1:20:10 ↗ clarity add more definitions um and make

1:20:14 ↗ sure that the criteria uh is evaluated

1:20:17 ↗ to so that it cannot be you know it's

1:20:19 ↗ only used for last resources uh when you

1:20:22 ↗ can't do anything else with your

1:20:24 ↗ property you need to do a minimum amount

1:20:26 ↗ in order to get some benefit from your

1:20:28 ↗ um

1:20:28 ↗ property so that's gonna get uh cleared

1:20:31 ↗ cleaned up uh there was public comments

1:20:34 ↗ about private roads should have the same

1:20:36 ↗ exemptions as public roads so we'll take

1:20:38 ↗ care of that

1:20:39 ↗ i think you all weighed in and said yes

1:20:42 ↗ that's only fair uh to treat them both

1:20:44 ↗ the same there was discussion about

1:20:47 ↗ beaver dams so the state law is pretty

1:20:49 ↗ clear about it so we'll reference that

1:20:51 ↗ in our critical area code um so when

1:20:54 ↗ they build their dams in the middle of

1:20:56 ↗ the streams what's allowed what's not

1:20:57 ↗ allowed what permits are needed

1:21:01 ↗ for storm water conveyance

1:21:04 ↗ then

1:21:05 ↗ this is number four is really there's

1:21:07 ↗ some archaic language still left over in

1:21:10 ↗ our code and it really deals with

1:21:12 ↗ regional detention retention facilities

1:21:16 ↗ um we'll make sure that once the city

1:21:18 ↗ finishes its storm water management

1:21:20 ↗ program plan that it's consistent with

1:21:21 ↗ that

1:21:22 ↗ um there were also some

1:21:25 ↗ will also do some test cases to see if

1:21:28 ↗ there anything additional needs to be

1:21:30 ↗ fixed so that was just general topic

1:21:33 ↗ areas

1:21:34 ↗ so we can pause now to

1:21:36 ↗ get your comments

1:21:39 ↗ okay i will open it up to comments

1:21:44 ↗ commissioner lewis

1:21:48 ↗ isaac's anticipating you had a comment

1:21:51 ↗ but she doesn't have a comment

1:21:53 ↗ my comment is uh ties together both the

1:21:56 ↗ wetlands and the streams which i know

1:21:57 ↗ you haven't gotten to but i think it's

1:21:59 ↗ relevant to say that there's a little

1:22:01 ↗ bit of confusion about buffers uh why

1:22:05 ↗ buffers work uh with wetlands versus

1:22:07 ↗ streams and i think the further that we

1:22:09 ↗ dived into it this commission um

1:22:12 ↗ ended up getting responses from staff

1:22:14 ↗ that exposed that our code right now for

1:22:17 ↗ streams has just been brought along um

1:22:20 ↗ while there there were two different um

1:22:23 ↗ changes of feet that were that were put

1:22:25 ↗ forward um that we are not right now

1:22:27 ↗ operating on a best available science

1:22:29 ↗ and that more recent resources sound

1:22:31 ↗ like they're needed to be able to bring

1:22:33 ↗ this truly up to date so i'd really

1:22:35 ↗ appreciate comments from staff on how we

1:22:37 ↗ can get more information on types of

1:22:40 ↗ buffers for wetlands you know and being

1:22:42 ↗ able to have greater transparency on

1:22:43 ↗ what

1:22:44 ↗ on what is possible with having further

1:22:46 ↗ protections

1:22:47 ↗ so i think that this section is

1:22:50 ↗ something that we would like to have

1:22:51 ↗ staff come back to us with um with some

1:22:54 ↗ better guidance as we move forward with

1:22:56 ↗ with the buffers for wetlands and for

1:22:58 ↗ streams thanks

1:23:01 ↗ and thank you commissioners uh

1:23:05 ↗ commissioner voice would you like to

1:23:06 ↗ make a comment

1:23:10 ↗ as far as the amendments that you guys

1:23:12 ↗ have going into the second tour this is

1:23:14 ↗ the third draft

1:23:16 ↗ i'm sorry

1:23:17 ↗ the second draft second draft right

1:23:20 ↗ um nope they look

1:23:22 ↗ pretty much what i remember the comments

1:23:24 ↗ that night

1:23:25 ↗ so

1:23:26 ↗ in addition to commissioner lewis's i

1:23:27 ↗ think we're good to go okay and

1:23:30 ↗ commissioner lewis are we coming back to

1:23:31 ↗ you or you just put the comment in

1:23:32 ↗ because i didn't call it i got ahead of

1:23:35 ↗ you you're good

1:23:37 ↗ okay

1:23:38 ↗ all right uh minnie it's back to you

1:23:41 ↗ okay so the next topic is wetlands um in

1:23:45 ↗ this one i think this was the one that

1:23:46 ↗ was pretty clear guidance from

1:23:48 ↗ department of ecology and we've taken

1:23:50 ↗ that uh best available science and

1:23:52 ↗ produced we're happy to answer any

1:23:54 ↗ questions you might have on this

1:23:56 ↗ um

1:23:57 ↗ but uh one of the things that i think

1:23:59 ↗ we're going to look at was really this

1:24:01 ↗ um

1:24:03 ↗ you know when when do we want

1:24:05 ↗ uh enhancement opportunities i think we

1:24:07 ↗ heard that there we should look for

1:24:09 ↗ those obviously there are some legal

1:24:10 ↗ bounds that uh

1:24:12 ↗ we have to stay within however there was

1:24:15 ↗ this section i just did a cut you know

1:24:18 ↗ included it here for your easy reference

1:24:20 ↗ um

1:24:21 ↗ as to when does this kick in so if you

1:24:23 ↗ have a sparsely populated uh buffer not

1:24:26 ↗ in good shape more than 50 percent is

1:24:29 ↗ covered by non-native species

1:24:31 ↗ in that case if you redevelop or um

1:24:36 ↗ or there's new development

1:24:38 ↗ uh

1:24:39 ↗ in that case you would have to

1:24:42 ↗ uh enhance it um or go with the highest

1:24:45 ↗ buffers of the your class um under our

1:24:48 ↗ table so we'll look at uh to to clear

1:24:51 ↗ this thing up um and and look for other

1:24:54 ↗ opportunities but but you know it was

1:24:56 ↗ the wetland section seemed to be the

1:24:58 ↗ most

1:24:58 ↗ um

1:24:59 ↗ clear

1:25:00 ↗ in

1:25:01 ↗ in terms of what we had produced at this

1:25:04 ↗ stage

1:25:05 ↗ the streams um

1:25:08 ↗ you know we'd fix the classifications

1:25:09 ↗ and the definitions i think we heard

1:25:11 ↗ that we needed to pull these out from

1:25:13 ↗ the uh fish and wildlife habitat

1:25:16 ↗ conservation section into a separate

1:25:18 ↗ section of its own

1:25:19 ↗ um

1:25:20 ↗ we're going to eliminate the buffer

1:25:22 ↗ averaging

1:25:23 ↗ uh

1:25:24 ↗ and then we'll include some language

1:25:26 ↗ about stream bank stabilization i think

1:25:28 ↗ one of you or one of the other

1:25:30 ↗ commissioners had uh said

1:25:32 ↗ said that in the s p we have this

1:25:34 ↗ language but not in this uh stream

1:25:36 ↗ section so we're going to bring some of

1:25:38 ↗ those things back in here

1:25:40 ↗ we are recommending that the

1:25:43 ↗ full inventory characterizations of our

1:25:46 ↗ streams

1:25:48 ↗ work occur

1:25:50 ↗ as a whiteboard item

1:25:51 ↗ because king county right now is also

1:25:54 ↗ doing a flood plain and channel

1:25:55 ↗ migration study for issaquah creek so

1:25:57 ↗ there are some benefits of of doing a

1:26:00 ↗ more comprehensive look at the buffers

1:26:02 ↗ they are based on the current proposal

1:26:04 ↗ is based on best available signs i think

1:26:07 ↗ what had come up was

1:26:08 ↗ one latest uh

1:26:10 ↗ document produced by fish and wildlife

1:26:12 ↗ dated 2020 um so we can look at that uh

1:26:17 ↗ with this additional work uh that we

1:26:19 ↗ have uh recommended be on the whiteboard

1:26:22 ↗ um

1:26:23 ↗ but city had done some previous studies

1:26:25 ↗ um

1:26:26 ↗ that clearly uh are the guidance factor

1:26:29 ↗ for what is on the ground and how the

1:26:31 ↗ how the buffers meet the best available

1:26:34 ↗ science

1:26:35 ↗ so that's wetlands and streams uh do we

1:26:38 ↗ want to take a pause and see if we've

1:26:40 ↗ captured the list correctly

1:26:44 ↗ okay uh any comments

1:26:52 ↗ i am not seeing any comments many so

1:26:55 ↗ keep going okay

1:26:57 ↗ uh fish and wildlife conservation area

1:26:59 ↗ this is the one it's a new section

1:27:02 ↗ uh there was uh you know it's going to

1:27:04 ↗ need a little bit more work we're going

1:27:05 ↗ to add some context uh context to it

1:27:08 ↗ remove some uh fine-tune some language

1:27:11 ↗ we'll continue to modify this uh to add

1:27:14 ↗ add more clarity bridge any gaps

1:27:17 ↗ we're also going to add additional

1:27:18 ↗ resources during the update if we come

1:27:21 ↗ across anything we'll bring those

1:27:23 ↗ forward

1:27:24 ↗ you know there are some maps from

1:27:25 ↗ department of natural resources and

1:27:27 ↗ others that we are hoping that we can

1:27:29 ↗ add those as layers in our gis system so

1:27:33 ↗ uh nothing um you know in terms of this

1:27:35 ↗ is more of the text editing and making

1:27:38 ↗ sure the context is clear and then

1:27:41 ↗ we have all the resources easily um

1:27:44 ↗ identified

1:27:48 ↗ so that's that topic

1:27:50 ↗ any

1:27:51 ↗ common suggestions on that

1:27:56 ↗ and commissioners

1:28:00 ↗ i do chair fall thank you

1:28:02 ↗ uh i think right now we have a

1:28:04 ↗ discrepancy in our code uh dealing with

1:28:06 ↗ uh the use of chemicals and currently it

1:28:08 ↗ doesn't uh reflect the best available

1:28:11 ↗ science and it doesn't fully protect our

1:28:13 ↗ fish and wildlife

1:28:14 ↗ conservation areas and so i strongly

1:28:16 ↗ recommend going back and fine-tuning how

1:28:19 ↗ we allow and where we allow the use of

1:28:21 ↗ chemicals

1:28:22 ↗ not only by the public but also by the

1:28:24 ↗ city thank you

1:28:29 ↗ thank you commissioner lewis um i also

1:28:31 ↗ have a comment uh the other day i

1:28:33 ↗ noticed that uh

1:28:35 ↗ a city worker was spraying uh roundup on

1:28:38 ↗ weeds and they were right next to the

1:28:41 ↗ creek next to the

1:28:44 ↗ community center which

1:28:46 ↗ goes into

1:28:48 ↗ izaqua creek and roundup is the only

1:28:51 ↗ pesticide in the world

1:28:55 ↗ roundup is not allowed to be used in any

1:28:58 ↗ other country except the united states

1:28:59 ↗ because it is so toxic not only to

1:29:01 ↗ wildlife but to humans so

1:29:03 ↗ um i want to bring that up that's

1:29:05 ↗ something i saw we should probably

1:29:07 ↗ broaden this out to include herbicides

1:29:10 ↗ and pesticides used by the city for weed

1:29:12 ↗ control because that is a

1:29:14 ↗ big issue if they spray it on the ground

1:29:16 ↗ it always gets into the creeks

1:29:23 ↗ and

1:29:24 ↗ any other additional comments or

1:29:25 ↗ questions

1:29:30 ↗ and to uh many i i asked the gentleman

1:29:33 ↗ what he was spraying and he told me it

1:29:34 ↗ was roundup so that's how i know

1:29:37 ↗ i confirmed we'll follow up yeah i'll

1:29:39 ↗ follow up

1:29:40 ↗ okay uh

1:29:42 ↗ so with that mini the floor is yours

1:29:44 ↗ again yeah so the next topic is the

1:29:46 ↗ critical aquifer recharge area um so we

1:29:50 ↗ will continue to work on this i think we

1:29:53 ↗ last we talked we've uh have updated uh

1:29:56 ↗ the report wasn't signed by the the

1:29:58 ↗ company that had uh worked for the city

1:30:00 ↗ so we have the

1:30:02 ↗ the fully uh finalized report on the

1:30:04 ↗ website i included a link

1:30:07 ↗ in your packet

1:30:08 ↗ and then we'll continue to coordinate

1:30:10 ↗ with department of health department of

1:30:12 ↗ ecology sammamish water plateau we've

1:30:14 ↗ had a few meetings with them

1:30:16 ↗ to get their feedback on

1:30:19 ↗ on the drinking water supply safety

1:30:22 ↗ rules

1:30:24 ↗ and then i think we heard some comments

1:30:25 ↗ from lakeside industries so we will

1:30:28 ↗ continue to work with them to address

1:30:29 ↗ their concerns

1:30:31 ↗ so that's the kara section

1:30:35 ↗ any thoughts on additional comments on

1:30:37 ↗ this

1:30:44 ↗ i'm not seeing anybody typing or

1:30:45 ↗ reaching for the computer so i say mini

1:30:48 ↗ keep going okay

1:30:49 ↗ so the last topic is the geohazard areas

1:30:54 ↗ so in here uh one of the

1:30:56 ↗ the two complex things that aren't easy

1:30:59 ↗ to put in code um were the non-wetland

1:31:03 ↗ peat deposits

1:31:05 ↗ and then also the dewatering during the

1:31:08 ↗ construction

1:31:10 ↗ time frame so we'll continue to research

1:31:13 ↗ of making meaningful uh codes that are

1:31:16 ↗ legally defensible and we can apply them

1:31:19 ↗ uh and but like uh you know we included

1:31:22 ↗ more information here for some thoughts

1:31:24 ↗ for you all to think about

1:31:26 ↗ uh

1:31:27 ↗ as you know if you have any suggestions

1:31:29 ↗ on how we could go about

1:31:31 ↗ crafting some of these rules and

1:31:32 ↗ regulations

1:31:34 ↗ but these are things we're going to

1:31:35 ↗ research further

1:31:37 ↗ these two topics

1:31:38 ↗ and then what we heard from you all was

1:31:41 ↗ the steep slope buffer and community

1:31:43 ↗ members

1:31:44 ↗ that we need to come up with a sliding

1:31:46 ↗ scale so not just the 50 feet uh buffer

1:31:50 ↗ on 40 slopes from the top and the bottom

1:31:53 ↗ but really take into consideration the

1:31:55 ↗ vertical height of the slope and then

1:31:58 ↗ come up with this sliding scale so we'll

1:32:00 ↗ work on that

1:32:02 ↗ there was also some

1:32:05 ↗ reference to essequa hyland's final plat

1:32:08 ↗ had some conditions as far as coal mines

1:32:11 ↗ go so we'll make sure that we're

1:32:13 ↗ consistent in the code language and then

1:32:15 ↗ we'll continue to test the code you know

1:32:17 ↗ apply the existing code and the new code

1:32:20 ↗ and and see how what the differences are

1:32:22 ↗ so

1:32:23 ↗ that's on the geo hazard section

1:32:27 ↗ anything any comments suggestions for

1:32:29 ↗ this one

1:32:30 ↗ i see a comment uh from commissioner

1:32:33 ↗ royce you have the floor

1:32:35 ↗ uh thank you chairfell so yes i think

1:32:38 ↗ the amendments look great and i just

1:32:40 ↗ wanted to say last time we know so

1:32:42 ↗ little about pete

1:32:43 ↗ now we know a ton about pete so great

1:32:45 ↗ job to staff

1:32:47 ↗ and yeah i think as far as the

1:32:48 ↗ amendments

1:32:49 ↗ um good job

1:32:50 ↗ so

1:32:51 ↗ just wanted to point that out because

1:32:54 ↗ that was interesting to read all about

1:32:55 ↗ that pete i didn't realize there was

1:32:57 ↗ that much to know about it and i'm

1:32:59 ↗ looking forward to you guys presentation

1:33:00 ↗ once you guys start digging further into

1:33:02 ↗ these amendments

1:33:05 ↗ okay thank you commissioner voice and

1:33:07 ↗ i'm not seeing any additional comments

1:33:09 ↗ so minnie

1:33:11 ↗ where's yours

1:33:13 ↗ that concludes uh the list and um you

1:33:16 ↗ know a lot of work went in from all of

1:33:19 ↗ you

1:33:20 ↗ uh late night studying i'm sure and very

1:33:22 ↗ complex material a lot of input from the

1:33:26 ↗ community engaged community members and

1:33:28 ↗ them you know trying to understand the

1:33:30 ↗ code and how we presented the

1:33:32 ↗ information

1:33:33 ↗ um but it's coming

1:33:35 ↗ together so we have it at a place where

1:33:37 ↗ we have our list of things that we're

1:33:39 ↗ going to

1:33:40 ↗ amend and include and research uh for

1:33:42 ↗ the second go-round for these topics so

1:33:45 ↗ thank you for all your work

1:33:55 ↗ you're on youtube

1:34:01 ↗ okay thank you minnie uh so it looks

1:34:04 ↗ like we are concluded then we are going

1:34:07 ↗ to move on to the next agenda item

1:34:10 ↗ and that would be

1:34:15 ↗ we will open up to public comment now

1:34:17 ↗ public comment is not a continuation

1:34:20 ↗ this is not a public hearing so

1:34:23 ↗ public hearing

1:34:25 ↗ public comment from the last hearing was

1:34:26 ↗ closed this is general public comment

1:34:29 ↗ um many are there any members of the

1:34:31 ↗ public tonight that would like to speak

1:34:37 ↗ cheerful i'm not seeing any

1:34:40 ↗ hands raised so i'll give everybody kind

1:34:42 ↗ of a minute

1:34:44 ↗ i do want to clarify for public comment

1:34:46 ↗ that we're taking

1:34:48 ↗ general public comment but also public

1:34:49 ↗ comment on the list of amendments that

1:34:52 ↗ the public hearing was not on that list

1:34:54 ↗ so

1:34:54 ↗ um i did receive a question about that

1:34:56 ↗ so i just want to

1:34:57 ↗ state that for everybody that's

1:35:00 ↗ in the meeting tonight

1:35:05 ↗ okay i do not see

1:35:07 ↗ any raised hands for public comment

1:35:09 ↗ okay very good

1:35:11 ↗ uh so with that said we're going to move

1:35:13 ↗ on to the next topic here which is

1:35:16 ↗ reports

1:35:18 ↗ mini or steven are there any updates

1:35:20 ↗ tonight

1:35:24 ↗ i do have one uh just quick report for

1:35:27 ↗ for city

1:35:28 ↗ city council is going to be receiving

1:35:30 ↗ bucket two on may 3rd next week

1:35:33 ↗ um just to let the commission know that

1:35:35 ↗ they'll be discussing at their

1:35:37 ↗ at their meeting next week

1:35:41 ↗ okay thank you

1:35:43 ↗ and

1:35:45 ↗ okay moving on to uh other business

1:35:47 ↗ announcements uh minnie or steven do you

1:35:49 ↗ have any other business announcements

1:35:53 ↗ we do i have a couple we have a new

1:35:55 ↗ member joining us and they'll be

1:35:57 ↗ starting in our may meetings um with

1:36:00 ↗ that that means that we'll actually need

1:36:02 ↗ to be going through required trainings

1:36:04 ↗ for all the

1:36:06 ↗ commissioners and so

1:36:07 ↗ staff will be following up with all you

1:36:09 ↗ to schedule a special meeting so that we

1:36:10 ↗ can go through the city clerk's public

1:36:13 ↗ uh

1:36:15 ↗ public meeting trainings um many of you

1:36:17 ↗ have gone through it before but we have

1:36:19 ↗ to go through it

1:36:20 ↗ anytime we're getting new members and so

1:36:23 ↗ we'll follow up to schedule that meeting

1:36:24 ↗ with you all

1:36:26 ↗ the other notes is that

1:36:27 ↗ we are going to be

1:36:28 ↗ needing to do a regular review of our

1:36:30 ↗ rules and regulations and so at that

1:36:31 ↗ special meeting we'll be having a

1:36:33 ↗ discussion with you all on any potential

1:36:36 ↗ changes to the rules and regulations

1:36:39 ↗ okay and thank you and i do have an

1:36:41 ↗ announcement uh this is my last meeting

1:36:44 ↗ so

1:36:45 ↗ i think everyone here is already aware

1:36:47 ↗ of it it was a

1:36:48 ↗ joy to work with all of you

1:36:52 ↗ hearing your feedback being able to

1:36:53 ↗ collaborate with you all and kind of

1:36:55 ↗ drive stuff to consensus really was

1:36:58 ↗ a joy for me to be able to sit here and

1:36:59 ↗ be able to chair this meeting

1:37:02 ↗ and work with the public i was just

1:37:04 ↗ it was a huge learning experience for

1:37:06 ↗ myself it was a big stretch for me to

1:37:09 ↗ come out of my comfort zone like that so

1:37:10 ↗ i thank you for allowing me to be able

1:37:12 ↗ to do that

1:37:13 ↗ and um

1:37:15 ↗ hopefully someday i will be back but

1:37:17 ↗ with my current job situation and being

1:37:19 ↗ and having to take care of my mom full

1:37:21 ↗ time is just uh too much of a burden i

1:37:24 ↗ can't possibly do it all so i had to

1:37:25 ↗ give something up and i

1:37:28 ↗ this was my favorite thing to do for my

1:37:30 ↗ leisure time and so

1:37:32 ↗ it kind of hurts but

1:37:33 ↗ um someday i will be back

1:37:37 ↗ all right and

1:37:38 ↗ thank you all and with that we're going

1:37:41 ↗ to go ahead and adjourn at 809.

1:37:44 ↗ we just want to say thank you so much

1:37:46 ↗ cheerful you know when i came on board

1:37:48 ↗ you were here you you were the chair and

1:37:50 ↗ and so it's been a pleasure working with

1:37:53 ↗ you for the last

1:37:55 ↗ year or so for of my time uh but the

1:37:58 ↗ city you know in general i think

1:37:59 ↗ everyone has really values all of your

1:38:01 ↗ time

1:38:02 ↗ and commitment but you'll be missed

1:38:05 ↗ thank you thank you yeah

1:38:07 ↗ on the back of the city ron you know you

1:38:09 ↗ and and richard even though he's not

1:38:11 ↗ here tonight you both

1:38:13 ↗ have

1:38:13 ↗ committed so much time and contributed

1:38:16 ↗ so much for the commission discussions

1:38:18 ↗ and

1:38:19 ↗ and even though i've only been helping

1:38:20 ↗ with this commission

1:38:22 ↗ for a short while i've i've

1:38:24 ↗ been with the city for a while and i

1:38:25 ↗ know

1:38:26 ↗ that a lot of what you contributed has

1:38:28 ↗ made the discussions with the commission

1:38:30 ↗ uh much more for thoughtful and and much

1:38:33 ↗ more interesting and so we we thank you

1:38:35 ↗ for everything you've done

1:38:36 ↗ and others have made your life more

1:38:38 ↗ difficult

1:38:39 ↗ just come out and say it

1:38:42 ↗ all right well thank you all appreciate

1:38:44 ↗ it have a good evening

1:38:45 ↗ thank you everybody have a good night

Approved minutes

Extracted from the next meeting's packet, where this meeting's minutes were approved as a consent-calendar attachment.

Open PDF

Attendance

Council / Members (6)

Faul

Voiss

Commissioners Bader

Lewis

Monahan Absence: Commissioner Milligan (unexcused)

Commissioner Zaragoza (excused)

Staff (1)

Millie Dhaliwal, Director, CP&D Stephen Padua, Long Range Planning Manager, CP&D Lucy Sloman, Current Planning Manager, CP&D 2. Approval of Minutes