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Planning Policy Commission Auto captions

Thursday, January 9, 2020

6:30 PM · 1h 48m · Council Chambers, 135 E. Sunset Way, Issaquah WA
Topic tracked across meetings:
Message from Mayor Mary Lou Pauly AB 6751 2/2
Section
1. CALL TO ORDER
1a
Commission Membership
packet pp.3
Staff report:
Planning Policy Commission About Staff Liaison Created in 1983, this commission serves as a Trish Heinonen, Planning Manager policy advisory body to the Mayor and provides Email guidance and direction for Issaquah’s future growth through continued review and improvement to the Regular Members City’s Comprehensive Land Use Plan and related 2020 – Ron Faul land use documents. 2020 – Joan Probala 2022 – Joy Lewis Membership 2022 – Janice Carle The Planning Policy Commission is comprised of 2022 – Bill Rinehart seven regular members, with four-year terms; and 2022 – Jason Voiss several alternates, with two-year terms. All 2023 – Randy Harrison members are appointed by the Mayor and subject to confirmation by the City Council. Terms expire Alternate Members April 30 of the year listed. For more information, 2020 – Tom Haskins see IMC 18.03. 2020 – Robin Beukers 2020 – Vacant 2020 – Vacant
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
2a
Minutes of November 14, 2019
packet pp.5–7
Staff report:
APPROVAL OF MINUTES a) 11-14-19 Planning Policy Commission Minutes Page [0000]
3. SPECIAL BUSINESS
3a
Message from Mayor Mary Lou Pauly
4. REGULAR BUSINESS
4a
Training, (I): Bylaws Parliamentary Procedures
Tina Eggers, City Clerk Tisha Gieser, Deputy City Clerk · packet pp.9–62
Staff report:
REGULAR BUSINESS a) 12/27/2019 Final Draft
5. OTHER BUSINESS / ANNOUNCEMENTS
5a
Upcoming Schedule
packet pp.63
Staff report:
OTHER BUSINESS / ANNOUNCEMENTS a) 2020 PPC Schedule (tentative) (updated 12/19/19) All meetings located in Council Chambers unless noted January 2020 September 2020 1/9/20 Training and Mayor visit 9/10/20 To be Determined
0:10 read like this
0:17 good evening and welcome to them January
0:19 9th meeting of the planning policy
0:21 commission tonight we have a little
0:24 different set up and a few guests to
0:27 update us on some of the things that are
0:29 going on in the city but first we have a
0:32 I know it's old but we need an approval
0:36 of the minutes for the November 14th
0:38 meeting do I hear a motion to approve a
0:41 minute I would like to make a motion to
0:43 approve the minutes for November 14th
0:44 2019 5 a second again any discussion
0:49 changes none hearing none all those in
0:54 favor say aye
0:55 all right motion carries
0:58 with that I would like to go into our
1:02 first important guests here this evening
1:06 our mayor
1:07 Mary Lou Polly has agreed to come and
1:10 share some information with us so I'm
1:12 just going to say welcome to our
1:14 Commission meeting and the floor is
1:16 yours thank you madam chair and thank
1:19 you commissioners I came this evening
1:21 because I wanted to start off 2020 by
1:24 wishing you a happy 2020 and also to
1:27 take this opportunity to thank you thank
1:30 you for volunteering your time to serve
1:32 on a citizen's Commission I'm sure folks
1:34 who are watching this on TV tonight
1:35 don't realize that you aren't the actual
1:37 council that you are a citizen's
1:39 Commission interesting the the second
1:45 council and so I think it's really
1:47 important that I come once in a while
1:49 and let you know that I'm watching the
1:52 work that you do and we are using the
1:54 work that you do in forming the council
1:56 on the decision-making that those tough
1:59 decisions that they have to make and so
2:00 what you're doing is super important and
2:02 I appreciate it and I appreciate your
2:04 community involvement for those who are
2:05 watching at home and may not understand
2:07 fully what you do you provide guidance
2:10 in a direction for us across future
2:12 growth through continuous review and
2:14 improvement of the comprehensive land
2:16 use plan and related documents I think
2:19 it's one of the largest charges that we
2:21 give to any border commission that we
2:23 have these should be some of the most
2:26 desirable seats to have because you are
2:28 really sitting in
2:29 seats that have a dramatic effect on
2:32 what the city is gonna look like five
2:34 years from now ten years from now 25
2:37 years from now you're kind of painting
2:39 the canvas with the recommendations and
2:41 the work that you are doing for what
2:43 we're gonna be when we grow up so I
2:46 wanted to make sure that community knew
2:47 that as well I had a couple of thoughts
2:50 too that I thought I would share I'm
2:52 gonna be doing a tour and visiting each
2:54 of the boards and commissions but I
2:55 thought I'd talk specifically about the
2:57 work that you're currently doing I want
3:00 to make sure that you are aware that in
3:03 the decisions you know in the work that
3:08 you're doing and the recommendations you
3:09 you're making there's a lot of other
3:11 things going on in the region and an
3:14 estate and are in in our city that
3:16 affect what you do and we can provide
3:18 information sessions to provide context
3:21 I'll give an example currently within
3:25 the administration right now we are at
3:27 the staff level looking create finishing
3:30 off a buildable lands inventory
3:32 buildable lands and it's a exercise we
3:35 go through before we sit down with the
3:37 county and we start talking about growth
3:39 targets and growth targets are probably
3:41 something you're familiar with because
3:42 they are amended and that comes through
3:44 here but that's a pretty big serious
3:47 conversation we're gonna have and you'll
3:49 have some role in reviewing material
3:51 making recommendations and there may be
3:53 information outside of just the normal
3:56 what's in your packet that would be
3:58 helpful to provide you some context for
4:00 your decision-making so please think
4:02 about that and consider what we may be
4:04 able to do to help better inform you
4:07 while you're having your deliberations
4:08 and discussions I'm not sure if you're
4:12 aware but I might have said it last time
4:14 we did adopt as a City a strategic plan
4:17 last year and it has six major goal
4:19 areas one is growth and development
4:21 right in your wheelhouse you don't have
4:24 to read the whole plan but I sure would
4:26 appreciate it if you looked at the
4:28 growth and development section and you
4:29 looked at the goals the objectives and
4:32 the action items associated with that in
4:34 last fall's budget the council has
4:37 started to work on some of these action
4:39 items and they directly
4:41 affect and feed into future work that
4:43 you will see so please take a look at
4:45 that I love it if you read the whole
4:47 plan but even just the growth and
4:49 development section we'd be good as we
4:51 brought on a new city administrator we
4:53 have made some adjustments in our
4:55 organization to structure ourselves to
4:58 be able to move the needle in these
5:00 goals areas so we have moved some people
5:02 around and we are working on how do we
5:04 best tool ourselves as an organization
5:06 to move the needle in these goal areas
5:09 this is what the community told us they
5:11 want us to do and I'm excited that we
5:13 have this plan and the structure and
5:15 we're working to be successful in that
5:23 the other thing I want to talk about is
5:25 closing the loop I know that you prepare
5:29 for these meetings you attend these
5:31 meetings you collaborate with each other
5:33 but I'm not sure that after your work is
5:36 done and your recommendation moves on
5:37 that we've got a really good way of
5:40 closing the loop with you it's my
5:42 expectation that as your work proceeds
5:45 up through Council or to whichever body
5:47 it's going to that there's a feedback
5:50 loop that tells you how Council took
5:53 your recommendation what they did with
5:55 how it informed their decision maybe
5:58 they went on a different track
5:59 understanding that it's super important
6:02 I think for you in your future decisions
6:04 so I want you to know that we're
6:06 committed to doing that example that
6:09 I'll throw out there right now it was
6:10 talking with the chair earlier this
6:12 evening about the rezone for the
6:15 providence Heights properties and want
6:18 to make sure that has gone to council
6:21 council has had a meeting on it I know
6:23 you don't have the time nor should you
6:25 have to have the time to watch every
6:27 time one of your items is before council
6:29 but it is coming up again on January
6:31 21st and it's been a very interesting
6:33 journey I watched your videotape of your
6:36 meeting but I want to make sure we're
6:38 all on the same page on why decisions
6:40 are getting made the way they're getting
6:42 made I think that will help you in your
6:44 deliberations
6:46 I think the
6:48 thing I know last thing maybe last two
6:50 things is recruitment and development
6:55 you are excellent agents to help us
6:58 recruit for boards and commissions as
7:00 well so I'm glad that you're serving I'm
7:03 glad that you're here but please when
7:04 you're out in the neighborhood tell
7:05 people about what you do what you do why
7:08 it's important why you like it we're
7:10 trying to engage as many of our
7:12 community members as we can and you guys
7:14 are just great advocates for us out
7:16 there
7:16 and we will be doing some recruiting
7:18 this spring and the last piece was
7:21 development it's been a real pleasure
7:23 for me to work with our city clerk and
7:25 our deputy city clerk talking about
7:27 boards and commissions and board
7:29 development Commission training
7:32 procedures for meetings role of the
7:35 chair duties of the chair
7:37 I love this stuff I think it's great and
7:39 I've got a really strong team inside the
7:41 building so I'm super excited that
7:43 they're here tonight to do some training
7:45 and I hope you enjoy it so thank you
7:48 very much the time madam chair thank you
7:51 madam mayor I turned over terrific and I
7:53 just realized that I'm sitting in your
7:55 chair with that this evening is going to
8:04 be a little bit a little bit different
8:06 is it's a training meeting it's not
8:08 we're not going to be looking at any
8:11 issues in the city so we're gonna take
8:13 this opportunity to just be comfortable
8:15 with what's going on how we should what
8:19 we should be responsible for and how we
8:21 should do it
8:21 so with that long-serving city clerk
8:27 Tina is here to run us through some of
8:30 the things that may be changes things
8:33 that we should look at and consider in
8:35 the next year so Tina thank you it's a
8:38 pleasure to be here first I want to say
8:41 that I echo the mayor's comments thank
8:45 you for your service we appreciate it
8:48 I'm Tina Eggers and I'm your city clerk
8:50 and alongside me is tisha Geezer she's
8:53 the deputy city clerk so you have some
8:56 great resources at your hand please
8:59 don't forget that we
9:01 are a resource to you and to the staff
9:02 liaison so thank you for having us here
9:04 for this joint training with staff and
9:07 with you I have to admit that neither
9:11 tisha or I are 100% this evening so bear
9:14 with us if we get a little foggy or
9:16 coughing fit occurs but we will do our
9:18 best to be sharp for you if you have
9:21 questions along the way or input please
9:23 speak up so that we can really use this
9:26 as an interactive session we will also
9:31 if you find that we come to a point
9:33 where we are navigating into a new
9:36 section and you feel that you'd like a
9:38 break please let us know that would be
9:41 appropriate you know before you start
9:43 would you since many of us have not been
9:47 introduced to your house kind of
9:53 introduce us to her yes well I let tisha
9:56 do that so she is our great deputy clerk
9:59 and she's just fantastic resource so
10:02 please give us some background oh thank
10:04 you I'm I'm tisha I've been working for
10:06 the city of Issaquah for four years
10:08 prior to that I worked for the Alaska
10:10 State Legislature and got to serve on
10:12 the House floor and so I love talking
10:15 about parliamentary procedure and I'm
10:16 really excited to be here tonight I help
10:19 support many of our council meetings and
10:21 really believe in efficient meetings and
10:24 respectful meetings and we're thrilled
10:26 to be with you tonight
10:27 thank you Thanks so yes we have a
10:33 slightly revised PowerPoint for you
10:36 it doesn't deviate too much from what
10:38 was in your packet but if you follow
10:40 along on your devices you'll be up to
10:42 speed we would like to start by talking
10:47 about your bylaws which are referred to
10:50 as rules and regs or rules and
10:52 regulations thank you so it's important
10:57 to recognize the hierarchy of how this
10:59 board is guided so obviously you've got
11:03 your top tier which is state law in the
11:05 RCW the second tier is the is a quasi
11:09 municipal code and that is how this
11:11 board was established so it has
11:14 define set about your membership and
11:18 about your practices it also provides
11:20 you to establish bylaws or your rules
11:22 and regs so that would be your next tier
11:24 and additionally your parliamentary
11:26 Authority which we've used parliamentary
11:30 excuse me Robert's Rules of Procedure
11:33 you'll hear about parliamentary a little
11:36 bit later but we do want to say we don't
11:39 want to over process or over regulate or
11:41 over do Parliament so we really want to
11:45 keep things - what's the intent
11:47 what's your outcome and try to keep it
11:49 as easy as possible for you so your last
11:57 rules and regs formally adopted we're
11:58 from 2003 now you have revisited your
12:02 bylaws or excuse me your rules as we're
12:04 referring to them in the last year and a
12:07 half or two we're at that stage now that
12:10 we'd like you to we've taken another
12:12 look at them and so we have a newest
12:15 cleanest version in your packet we
12:18 weren't planning on walking you through
12:19 all those items we'd certainly could but
12:22 we'd like to highlight sort of the
12:25 sections that we thought were of most
12:28 significance and get you ready for
12:32 adoption at your which meeting January
12:36 23rd meeting so that those are there's
12:39 some time to one give us some more
12:42 feedback and then to get those formally
12:45 adopted so we look to create consistency
12:51 we want clarity we want to remove any
12:55 outdated terminology and of course we
12:57 want to align this with Council and
12:59 other boards and commissions and with
13:01 your Municipal Code section so the
13:05 crosswalk document that tisha created
13:08 Thank You tisha is in your packet and
13:11 this document sort of talks about and
13:13 this is the crosswalk document from year
13:15 2003 bylaws so this says you know we
13:19 added a section on membership we added
13:23 chair duties
13:25 so that it was more formalized there
13:27 were things that the chair was already
13:28 doing we also believe that this is
13:31 helpful because it provides some insight
13:35 into if any other members interested in
13:38 serving in that role sort of what those
13:40 responsibilities are and are you if and
13:42 when you're interested in taking on that
13:44 sort of assignment what it would include
13:46 and then a section for deals with
13:50 meetings and there's a variety of things
13:54 that we provided some clarity on and
13:56 then we made some movement in
14:02 parliamentary Authority that section is
14:04 still there and specified how and when
14:10 amendments would occur to these bylaws
14:13 you really don't want them to be easy to
14:16 change so you want to make sure that
14:18 it's thoughtful that you have the
14:20 majority of the of the Commission and
14:23 that you it's on the agenda in advance
14:28 and well noticed so that if others that
14:31 have input on that that they have that
14:33 time to get that to you so the key
14:37 changes that we were going to be looking
14:39 at were attendance alternative some
14:46 voting but again please if you want to
14:49 delve into some other sections of the
14:51 bylaws excuse me rules and regs let me
14:53 know so let's look at attendance and
14:56 alternative part alternate participation
15:00 so if you can move on to the next slide
15:03 thank you so this section has been
15:06 enhanced to really specify that we're
15:10 looking for attendance and if you're
15:12 unable to attend due to illness or
15:16 travel plans vacations that you have
15:20 alerted your commission not just the
15:23 staff later on but that you know you
15:25 need to function as a board so with that
15:28 it's you can use things like other
15:32 business and announcements on your
15:34 agenda towards the end of your meeting
15:36 you may already be doing that so when
15:37 you're looking at your planning
15:38 calendar sort of before you adjourn it
15:40 can be that forwards thinking of of you
15:43 know I'm gonna be unavailable in April
15:46 this also allows you to ensure that you
15:50 have coverage amongst yourselves that
15:52 you can afford to have one or two
15:55 members down but that is about it you're
15:57 really attendance is important but we
16:00 understand that there are you know life
16:03 and business issues that that make that
16:07 a hundred percent attendance impossible
16:10 or difficult so but the more that you
16:13 can share at your meetings that
16:16 availability the better it also helps
16:18 with planning for special meetings I
16:21 would like to say that the bylaws have
16:24 included a minimum of a five day notice
16:26 now there are some exceptions of course
16:29 because what if you become ill or
16:31 something unexpected happens then of
16:33 course you know you as long as you're
16:35 providing notice to the staff liaison
16:38 and to the support person then they can
16:42 carry on your absence to the to the body
16:45 that evening but really it's about
16:47 knowing in advance plus it helps your
16:50 alternate positions know if there needed
16:53 to be serving and educated and up to
16:55 speed so that they can be part of that
16:57 dialogue and part of the vote that
16:58 evening when they're filling in for
17:00 those vacant seats that night alright
17:06 our attendance roles or just management
17:08 of it conducted by the city or by the
17:11 chair that's a good question so the we
17:15 would there's the other component to
17:19 this is having excused and unexcused
17:21 absences so an excused absence is
17:23 notifying ahead of time having you know
17:28 a rationale a reason behind that and
17:30 then the second part would be that the
17:34 chair would be announcing that at the
17:35 start of the meeting commissioner
17:38 so-and-so is unavailable this evening
17:39 and has provided notice and is listed as
17:41 an excused absence if you hadn't heard
17:45 from a tickler council or excuse me a
17:47 commission member you would need to
17:48 indicate that they are listed as
17:50 unexcused
17:51 that would be recorded in minutes that's
17:53 important because we rely on the minutes
17:55 which is recording of what's happening
17:58 at the meeting if they were excused or
18:02 unexcused your Municipal Code says that
18:04 if you have three unexcused absences
18:06 that impacts your ability to continue
18:08 service on the on the board so we want
18:11 to make sure that you know most
18:13 importantly that we're covered this is
18:15 costly to the agency staff is you know
18:20 working to bring items to you and if we
18:23 can't meet for lack of a quorum then it
18:25 can be costly to staff to attorneys to
18:28 applicants and hinder possibly hinder
18:31 the process that council is looking at
18:33 you know is the three unexcused absences
18:36 a year or four the term it would be
18:38 consecutive so but we really look for
18:43 attendance as important that's you know
18:46 that's why you joined this this body but
18:51 it is written in a in a rather unique
18:54 way that says it would have to be three
18:56 unexcused consecutive absences executive
19:00 meeting meetings correct and really the
19:05 intent of that is to have a mechanism to
19:07 remove someone who has just
19:09 non-responsive not at any non-responsive
19:12 and we've you know we've seen we've seen
19:15 one or two of those folks over the years
19:16 and that's that's okay but at least we
19:19 have a way to to move forward with their
19:23 other questions about attendance new
19:27 rewards for good attendance absolutely
19:37 oh I did want to ask so some of our so
19:45 the way that the the bylaws are written
19:48 drafted excuse me the rules drafted at
19:50 this point indicate that you would be
19:53 providing notice to the staff liaison
19:55 with a copy to the support person which
19:57 is Gretchen
20:01 other boards of commissions will say you
20:05 need to notify the staff liaison in the
20:07 chair so that is a consideration you
20:10 could require that to be in your bylaws
20:13 so that the chair is informed along the
20:16 same time that the staff liaison is
20:18 because you're sort of you may be in a
20:20 position that you're sort of scrambling
20:22 to figure out who who who will be
20:24 filling that seat that evening so that
20:26 could be helpful it's a practice that
20:29 our City Council uses they inform the
20:31 council president and the city clerk at
20:33 the same time that they're notifying us
20:35 of an absence or future absence so I
20:41 could flag it or I could just say you
20:43 you want to continue it with the
20:45 language is there a reason why different
20:48 Commission's have have different rules
20:50 not just with this but with other with
20:52 the procedural aspects is what we would
20:54 like to see them as lined as close as
20:56 possible we certainly don't want to
20:58 provide too much process in your rules
21:01 and regs because then it takes away some
21:03 flexibility but this could certainly be
21:06 a this this element is more about
21:08 communication who do you think it's
21:09 helpful to communicate to so that as
21:12 you're entering this room you're
21:13 informed and it does put some added
21:18 pressure to the staff liaison to
21:21 disperse that information and there
21:22 could be a lag in time I would then ask
21:25 Trish our staff liaison if you've found
21:27 it it's in cumbersome or that you would
21:31 be more benefitted in your in your role
21:33 by having an expanded distribution list
21:36 for that would that be more helpful to
21:38 you
21:39 that's ultimately what it comes down to
21:41 is how can we best help you right it
21:43 would it wouldn't matter to me
21:45 who else knows I usually let the chair
21:48 know if I hear someone's not going to be
21:50 here either before the meeting or if
21:52 there's many I'll let the chair know
21:54 that I'm having troubles getting a
21:55 quorum but to me it's more up to the
21:58 chair would the chair want to know
21:59 immediately or would the chair is I
22:03 don't think the chair needs to know
22:05 immediately but it would be nice at
22:07 least a day before if okay no if there's
22:10 no quorum or who's going to be here so
22:12 yeah so you may want to just as a
22:15 practice or as a courtesy if you felt it
22:18 was you know late approaching the
22:22 meeting time to include the person you
22:25 don't have to you can still do that and
22:26 not have it written in your rules and
22:28 regs I just think it would be nice if
22:30 for some reason you know you say you're
22:33 coming or you say you're not coming and
22:35 all of a sudden you appear it would be
22:38 nice to notify somebody that you are not
22:41 going to be here if you're sick you know
22:44 whatever you can't make the meeting
22:46 you're in traffic that's all just so you
22:51 kind of keep a record know who's going
22:53 to be here right and it helps establish
22:55 if it's a if it's an excuse to write
22:58 excuse my absence which is important to
23:00 the makeup right okay so believe the
23:03 language as is and if you would like to
23:06 later make changes to that to fit your
23:12 mood I think Trish's email sometimes
23:16 Trish is not in the office or is on her
23:19 way here it's easier to email the chair
23:23 whoever the chair is to notify them I
23:26 don't believe we all have one another's
23:28 email mm-hmm that shouldn't say oh yeah
23:32 it would
23:38 you do have the ability under the OPM a
23:42 this is not a violation to copy or send
23:46 a message to the entire board so you do
23:49 have a email address you could use to
23:51 say Planning Policy Commission at
23:54 Issaquah watt gov I am on about you know
23:56 unexpectedly unavailable or I would be
23:58 delayed by an hour and you can and that
24:00 includes Trish as well so as long as
24:03 you're not replying and discussing your
24:05 agenda items you're fine but if you're
24:06 talking about attendance and
24:08 availability that's that is allowed
24:11 under full excuse me for my fog brain
24:17 but for full knowledge of the board to
24:20 to be aware of alright so for alternate
24:29 members we've revised the rules now so
24:33 that the more there's more clear and
24:35 clarity of their roles so up until this
24:38 point while your practice has been
24:40 allowing alternate alternative I'll turn
24:43 alternate alternates that's the word I'm
24:45 looking for to vote only when attempting
24:48 to meet a quorum we are asking the
24:50 Commission to fill membership to the
24:52 fullest extent so meaning that the
24:56 alternates serve the absence of any
24:58 regular member that evening this gives
25:03 you the Commission and the community the
25:05 value of greater variety of perspectives
25:08 it's while your previous rules did not
25:12 preclude the Commission from this full
25:15 benefit the revised rules state that
25:17 this practice is required so it's
25:20 fighting clarity on the attempt I've
25:25 been on two other Commission's and we
25:27 both in both of them we considered all
25:30 of the whether you were in altered or
25:33 not we all voted made the motions did
25:37 consider them basically regular members
25:42 which is different than this which is
25:45 just talking about right and regardless
25:50 if there was participation of the
25:52 alternates in those scenarios
25:54 technically they did not have a voting
25:56 right no I understand but the way that
26:00 that it was basically scheduled
26:03 everybody voted right so there's a
26:06 difference between consensus and you
26:08 know discussion and consensus and formal
26:11 votes so this would be one that we would
26:14 want alignment across all boards and
26:15 commissions well I'm just saying that it
26:18 should be equal on all commissions right
26:21 and we a that's what I'm getting and
26:22 that is what we're asking for where we
26:25 would like to change that behavior if
26:27 it's occurring questions through the
26:32 alternate so I'm still not quite clear
26:35 about what the meaning of the words any
26:38 time so let's say there's a quorum of
26:40 voting members but there is one voting
26:44 member or more than one that's just not
26:46 in attendance sure and I attend because
26:49 I'm an ultimately right so you're a
26:51 seven member Commission and if any one
26:55 of those seven are not there the
26:57 alternate a alternate has the ability to
26:59 fill that seat at that moment at that
27:02 time all right so I think I understand
27:05 that so the second question that related
27:07 just to make sure I understand I watched
27:10 the last half-hour or so of a council
27:13 meeting I think it was October in
27:15 November to do with Providence point and
27:17 the comment came up correctly
27:19 incorrectly and this is the question
27:20 from one of the council the council
27:23 members that he had observed that in a
27:27 vote that we took on the Providence
27:29 point that there was I think there's six
27:33 of us I was the one alternate and the
27:36 vocals if you added up often and voting
27:39 that the vote was tied but because I was
27:41 an alternate it was three to two and it
27:43 went forward and calm at the gentlemen
27:44 it was but that shouldn't happen so I'm
27:46 confused
27:47 right and which is partly why we are
27:50 here and we
27:51 to provide clarity to your bylaws we are
27:57 familiar with with that evening and and
28:00 how the vote took place it's it has been
28:04 your practice and the vote stood and
28:07 there wasn't objection to it and so from
28:12 our perspective it it was it was valid
28:15 we didn't see any issues with with it
28:19 but we certainly want all your seats
28:22 filled all your regular member seats
28:25 filled so that the votes can be
28:29 considered both happened based on what
28:33 we were understanding in and taught how
28:39 to run the meeting and who was supposed
28:41 to be voting and so until you come in to
28:45 change it and make it more palatable
28:48 because I think they should have had the
28:51 opportunity to vote the vote was taken
28:54 under the guidelines that were in place
28:57 before under the practice or the
29:00 understanding but your former rules
29:03 didn't preclude you from that that we
29:05 certainly want to ensure that that that
29:08 practice moving forward is is to the is
29:15 an alignment with your municipal code I
29:17 don't I don't think it's a problem
29:19 whichever way you go just as long as
29:22 it's understood and that's the way it
29:25 should be done so that there's nobody
29:27 that feels that they hadn't have the
29:31 opportunity to vote or do whatever they
29:33 needed to do right and we still you know
29:37 suggest that alternates who are
29:40 alternates in the capacity for the
29:42 evening to participate in your
29:44 discussion up until though there is a
29:47 motion on the floor because that really
29:50 is the motion of the of the voting
29:52 members so Tina if there's a quorum
29:54 which constitutes four regular members
29:57 mm-hmm and there's five of us up here
29:59 and one of them is an alternate the idea
30:02 is the four people constitute a quorum
30:05 fifth alternate vote is not necessary no
30:07 we want so you do want them we want any
30:10 of the seven members regular members if
30:14 any one of those is gone
30:16 you could have how many alternates do
30:18 you have two or four two so you could
30:21 have two serving that night or one as a
30:23 regular member we want the fullest vote
30:26 possible
30:27 Evon votes mm-hmm seven or six depending
30:30 on what you're so pass it is so
30:33 apparently then I guess the council
30:34 member who had previously brought that
30:36 up would have been incorrect that was
30:40 they simply just questioned did it occur
30:44 correctly and we said that was your
30:46 practice and that we were looking to
30:49 come back to you and have some revised
30:52 rules and regs to clarify that
30:55 alternates serving in the seat of any
30:58 absent regular member has a voting right
31:00 there they're serving as that regular
31:03 member that evening or not as that
31:07 regular member they are serving as a
31:09 regular member you know I apologize but
31:13 I'm confused because I read this if
31:18 you're an alternate and you're attending
31:21 a meeting but there is a forum yeah
31:25 let's look at the language make sure
31:27 that we didn't omit a word or you did
31:30 because I was in the same boat that you
31:34 were because I thought we try hard but
31:36 yes this is why we're not adopting them
31:38 this evening here we go so let's see
31:41 what section that's falls under and let
31:44 me put this in track changes so if we
31:46 make an edit
31:55 are we currently the only board that has
31:58 been operating in this way has everyone
32:00 else been following the maximum number
32:03 of seats being voted on we believe so we
32:07 believe that the other boards are now
32:11 Boldin by law and practice okay
32:14 so have you given this presentation to
32:17 other boards when we do our annual
32:21 training we talk about roles of
32:24 alternates and have like for example the
32:27 Arts Commission has changed their some
32:31 of their practices okay so that yeah
32:33 okay mm-hmm and the DC operates this way
32:38 as well to my knowledge yes yep
32:45 so really sorry my question had only
32:48 been about boards so that's why I'm not
32:49 sure what section do you know where
32:54 where the wording was what section or
32:56 looking at section 3 page 69 but so for
33:11 more regular members of the commission
33:13 or alternates filling in for any absent
33:15 regular member shall constitute a quorum
33:18 for the transit transaction of business
33:21 and then the next one B says that once
33:25 the meeting has been called of order the
33:26 chair will announce which alternates
33:28 will be voting members and their status
33:30 will be most noted in the minutes which
33:34 again seems to me in conjunction with
33:36 the slide that was just up there that
33:38 unless this specific action takes place
33:41 you can be an alternate and participate
33:44 in the discussions if there's a quorum
33:47 with the permanent members
33:49 other commission and and both worked
33:55 unless the chair specifically it's just
33:58 not clear to me whether an alternate can
34:00 vote and if so what circumstances or I
34:04 may be the only one on the commission
34:05 that the same time I think it just need
34:10 a little bit more clarification so a
34:15 quorum is for to have a meeting a
34:21 minimum quorum is for alternates will
34:28 serve in the absence of any regular
34:30 member so whether it's four five six or
34:34 seven there's seven seats once the
34:44 meeting has my call to order if you have
34:46 I think as I'm reading this I I feel
34:50 clear but I helped write it so if you
34:52 have any suggestions for specific
34:54 wording that to make this better let us
34:59 know is it that there's seven voting
35:02 seats so that you're trying to get to
35:04 the seven voting seats with the mixture
35:07 of regular members and then if there's
35:09 not seven regulars then you fill in with
35:11 one or two of the so that's the goal is
35:14 to get the highest number up to seven
35:17 that are voting right we're not asking
35:19 for a minimum quorum or acts we're
35:21 asking for the fullest membership I
35:23 think there should be a sentence that it
35:24 specifically addresses the voting of
35:27 alternates to fill that or that desire
35:29 we that makes it real cut and cleared
35:33 and dry and that was the intention of be
35:35 so alternates will serve in the absence
35:36 of any irregular member anyone if you
35:39 have as Tina has spoken if there's one
35:43 person missing but you're we've talked
35:46 about this differentiation okay
35:48 discussions gotta be able to do a motion
35:50 and voting okay they I think you should
35:52 just be real crystal what they move from
35:55 is at that moment they are no longer an
35:57 alternate
35:58 they are a regular member
36:01 can you Tina can you put up that that
36:04 one that was up there before we got into
36:05 this the agenda the PowerPoint oh the
36:11 PowerPoint sure okay if not filling in
36:20 as a voting member may participate in
36:22 discussion but not in debate on emotion
36:25 or in voting correct that's only if
36:28 their status is still alternate so let's
36:31 say you have seven regular members here
36:34 right and you have an alternate who is
36:36 truly just an alternate daddy yes then
36:40 you know be informed and provide some
36:43 you know input maybe ask some questions
36:45 but once a motion has been made they won
36:49 they don't have the authority to make a
36:51 motion and to they can't vote on it so
36:53 they shouldn't be debating on the motion
36:56 that's the intent of that that's
36:59 parliamentary might I might suggest that
37:05 regarding the second sentence here a
37:07 number be back on page 10 you introduced
37:10 this idea that the chair must announce I
37:13 don't know that maybe you knew that you
37:17 had to announce this but I'm not sure
37:20 the intent of that if this is supposed
37:22 to be kind of almost a quasi automatic
37:24 process then why would the chair why are
37:27 you having that extra step that seems so
37:30 the announcement is important because it
37:32 creates the record in the minutes and
37:35 clarity so if there's an objection from
37:37 what's happening or who is in what role
37:40 there's the there's the optics too so
37:43 without that formal announcement it
37:46 would be unclear what role that
37:47 individual will be serving in and
37:49 counsel does it so well counsel doesn't
37:52 have alternates but the mayor will
37:54 announce at the beginning of the meeting
37:55 whether someone is excused or not and
37:58 say for another board it's the
38:01 expectation that the chair would
38:03 announce who was serving as an alternate
38:06 member and you know I also in the
38:09 interviews for mission do to fill these
38:13 seats
38:14 I don't recall that it was a part of the
38:18 presentation or the Job Description
38:19 where we really in writing encourage
38:24 alternates to attend meetings whether or
38:27 not there's a forum or not because and
38:29 I've thought about this in the past
38:31 because some alternates ago okay they
38:33 got a quorum I don't have to attend and
38:35 they miss unless they watch the fact so
38:39 I I think I would suggest that that
38:42 might be something that we could put
38:43 into the either the interview process or
38:45 the definition note we have many of the
38:50 other I don't know if it's a but if that
38:52 question is being posed to the to this
38:55 Commission that I know that many of the
38:59 other recruitment and interview
39:00 questions posed that question your
39:02 attend is important
39:03 will you come the whole point of
39:06 alternates is to be able to step in and
39:10 be up to speed and informed Plus
39:13 vacancies occur and so that is even more
39:15 important to have your alternates ready
39:17 to serve as a voting member
39:22 I wasn't in the last interview when I
39:27 was being interviewed but I think we
39:31 always discussed went into detail about
39:35 what the role of an alternate was
39:38 because you always have to ask will you
39:40 be happy with either a regular
39:42 membership or an alternate and you had
39:45 to explain what that alternate meant and
39:48 how involved you are going to be so it
39:52 is convincing because DC uses theirs
39:54 differently they actually call them when
39:57 they need them and otherwise they don't
39:58 have to attend and PPC's always been
40:01 different and we want you here all the
40:02 time because our issues take more than
40:05 one or two or three or four nights so we
40:08 want that consistency with the knowledge
40:09 and the questions and all that but it is
40:12 different I don't quite understand why
40:15 there's on issues as critical as that
40:18 wider aren't just standard expectations
40:20 for all the Commission's mm-hmm I mean I
40:24 think it's the intention I used to try
40:26 and get that now right
40:28 it's January 2020 you're our first board
40:32 to to have this conversation with all
40:38 right let me check my notes and make
40:40 sure that do you think that anything
40:42 would be drafted Tina or tisha to make
40:44 any of the cleat clear from the comments
40:46 okay
40:46 touches on it yeah I think we can add
40:48 some clarification to section II I've
40:52 turned my page but to be a little bit
40:54 more explicit with the language there
40:56 absolutely number seven
40:58 somewhere and yes yes that's a great
41:01 suggestion yes honestly it's good for us
41:10 to know too because in situations
41:13 obviously the Providence Point adjacent
41:15 properties are on our mind since it's
41:17 you know very you know applicable to
41:21 what we're discussing it helps us to
41:23 figure out a consensus - of saying how
41:26 are you feeling what is your gauge when
41:28 we're coming down to figuring out what
41:30 emotions we want to do because
41:31 ultimately we're trying to advance
41:33 business on at the recommendation of
41:35 staff our interactions with the public
41:38 and our best ability to advise rather
41:40 than just being spelled out so often
41:42 we're having discussions saying how are
41:43 you feeling about this
41:44 so knowing that we're trying to get to
41:46 seven honestly is important for us to
41:48 know because we're not trying to act as
41:51 an island we are as a body trying to
41:52 make our best recommendation even if we
41:54 are split so it's it's important for us
41:57 to actually know because it's a
41:57 different way of coming about really
42:00 that consensus that we're trying to do
42:01 every time one of the things that I have
42:07 a problem with we are presented with an
42:10 agenda and it's usually the first time
42:13 we see that particular information and I
42:19 know that just as the mayor had talked
42:22 earlier about there's other things going
42:24 on and maybe other Commission's or other
42:29 meetings had taken place in the city
42:31 that would shed some light on on this
42:35 particular meeting and our discussion so
42:38 it would be nice if ahead of time if
42:41 there was anything that was going on in
42:43 the city that was in relation to what we
42:47 were discussing it would be nice to know
42:49 that before we had a meeting
43:01 Thanks quick question
43:04 so just to be clear we can vote to have
43:07 a consensus and have a without actually
43:12 making an emotion correct in some cases
43:15 yes and tisha you're jumping ahead which
43:18 is I won't jump ahead then do we want it
43:25 I'm just gonna consult with my
43:27 parliamentary expert over here
43:31 do we okay
43:39 so we have another question related to
43:41 alternate so currently the draft rules
43:44 don't they they state that an alternate
43:47 will serve any time there are fewer than
43:49 seven will make that more clear but what
43:52 they don't say is if the seventh member
43:54 arrives what happens we that can stay as
43:58 is where it's not really stated or an
44:02 option would be to clarify what happens
44:04 and one of our other boards the
44:06 transportation advisory board they have
44:07 some language and their rules that say
44:09 that if the regular member arrives that
44:12 out of courtesy they may allow the
44:15 alternate to continue to serve through
44:17 that agenda item and then resume their
44:19 seat and I don't know how frequently
44:21 this would happen among your commission
44:24 and so again it could be something that
44:26 just sort of remains unsaid and you'd
44:27 sort of navigate that when it occurred
44:29 or you could task us with putting some
44:33 provision in your rules that's something
44:36 you could just keep as is and then if
44:38 and when you find you want clarity then
44:43 we can incorporate some some tools it
44:45 does say when the regular member is not
44:52 there so when the regular member comes I
44:56 would assume that they would take their
44:58 place and the alternate would unless
45:01 there's still a seat yeah where clarity
45:06 as long as you put the seven boats in
45:08 and say that the alternate is taking the
45:10 place of somebody that's not there well
45:13 we've had members before who regularly
45:15 know regularly would have an issue where
45:17 they might be coming late and be
45:19 notifying staff or leaving early and
45:21 notifying staff and so there was always
45:22 this thing about them when they were
45:26 present then they would fill in and so
45:29 we would think about our votes in terms
45:32 of that sometimes as far as like if
45:33 someone was going to be leaving so it's
45:36 an interesting point to bring up of of
45:38 that clear definition if you know if the
45:44 chair prefers to operate on saying
45:45 clear-cut when you are present
45:47 regardless of you know obviously
45:49 generally that was also
45:50 indicated to staff so it wasn't really
45:52 really when when they were coming and
45:53 going but I'm saying when you're present
45:56 than you are that voting member it's
45:58 helpful for the for the chair to
46:00 announce because it you know object
46:02 that's it's it's known when someone
46:05 comes in and sits down but it a lot of
46:07 times it's important to pause and say
46:08 we're recognizing commissioner so-and-so
46:11 is has arrived and we'll be resuming the
46:15 regular seats or actually for the
46:18 minutes from an optic standpoint I think
46:20 that's actually important because it
46:21 really is the right expectation and it
46:24 keeps people's feelings from getting
46:26 hurt mm-hmm and you certainly don't want
46:29 to lose a quorum because happen right
46:36 unintentionally you know it's not and at
46:39 that point you your business is
46:42 concluded you there but I think having a
46:46 document because we're here tonight we
46:48 have that understanding but then when we
46:50 bring new people on and they need to be
46:54 able to see that and read it and
46:56 understand it if it's not written them
46:58 they won't know that I agree
46:59 okay so just announced by the by the
47:05 chair arrival and in position status
47:08 well and that whenever opens that a
47:11 regular member is present that they are
47:14 of a voting position is that the clarity
47:17 that we're saying that we are assuming
47:19 is the mode rather than again you had
47:22 given the alternate version of if we're
47:25 in the middle of discussion on an agenda
47:26 item then the alternate it if they
47:29 started the discussion you know what I'm
47:30 saying like there needs to be a
47:31 clear-cut definition well we were silent
47:33 in the in meaning the the alternate is
47:39 only serving in the absence
47:41 so once the other person showed up that
47:44 perfect yeah I would like to changed it
47:46 if we're in the middle of motion I'd
47:48 like to finish the motion before we spot
47:50 members in and out if we have someone
47:53 arrive late and they arrive in the
47:54 middle of a motion and we're discussing
47:55 the motion they didn't participate in
47:57 their original discussion I think the
47:59 alternate stays until that motion
48:01 gets voted on and then we do the swap
48:03 that's my thought process so maybe
48:07 something to the effect of unless
48:13 emotion is currently being Korea
48:17 currently currently pending or I like
48:20 that I think it could get muddied I'm
48:22 kind of like to be honest like I like I
48:23 like the intent I really do because it
48:25 it talks about the people who are
48:27 present for everything being able to be
48:30 know what's going on but I do think it
48:33 could get a little sticky is there any
48:34 objection to that to keep it less
48:37 stickies everyone at least permanent
48:40 members arrive on time stay if they
48:43 can't for the full session I don't think
48:45 it happens too often if we find it to be
48:50 an issue I think making bylaws more and
48:52 more heavy and weighty is actually more
48:54 of an issue so I would I wouldn't but I
48:56 get the intent
48:57 I like the intent and I would just find
48:59 that if the chair recognizes that it's
49:01 happening often enough to suggest that
49:03 the change happened but right now I'm
49:05 not seeing evidence for needing that
49:06 maybe we what we can do is do some track
49:11 changes and if we feel because we're
49:14 we're we will strive to to maintain your
49:22 rules so that you still have some
49:23 flexibility but if we offer some
49:26 language around that we'll be sure that
49:29 it is identified in a track change that
49:32 way the body can decide if if they'd
49:34 like to incorporate it or not you know
49:36 did you say that there there are other
49:39 Commission's this rule that we're
49:42 discussing here that that if a given
49:46 member is late and arrives at the
49:50 regular member then we'll assume the
49:52 responsibility
49:53 or the vote session and the alternate we
49:59 do this they don't have something
50:01 spelled out that states that what one
50:04 Commission has that is specific says
50:08 that the alternate sorry the alternate
50:11 filling in for the regular seat would
50:13 continue through the agenda item
50:15 regardless of it was a voting item or
50:17 not it really it falls on the waiter
50:25 that her falls on the shoulders of the
50:26 chair it's not kind of a burden of the
50:28 full commission to your point was when a
50:35 motion has been proposed and the
50:37 discussion is in the middle of a motion
50:39 rather than an agenda item absolutely I
50:41 think that's a thing I see that as being
50:43 a big point of clarification it needs to
50:46 happen if you find that the sometimes we
50:48 have an agenda item that last 2-3 hours
50:50 if we're willing to say you know you
50:52 can't you know if you're five minutes
50:54 late and you don't you missed the
50:56 beginning of that two-hour conversation
50:57 if we we have multiple meetings what
51:01 who's to say that an alternate starts at
51:02 a one if the meeting gets extended then
51:05 could that alternate then still serve I
51:07 mean you hear it gets in my opinion so
51:12 unless we find this to be a huge issue I
51:15 would question us starting to tweak this
51:17 especially when other commissions and
51:19 boards do not have language that's
51:20 addressing what we're talking about in
51:23 this I'm assuming that the staff does a
51:28 presentation to us all the new members
51:31 and some of this is talked about when
51:36 you do the yearly updates with with new
51:39 members of what their status is and
51:42 right we do them with everybody you do
51:45 it with everybody so I'm hoping if some
51:47 of it comes out so you know I think the
51:51 responsibility of the commissioners are
51:53 to know the process and it's in to some
51:57 extent it's your responsibility to
51:59 we're and to read this information
52:02 before you even start so will there be
52:06 problems that come up short well there
52:08 will be things that joy coming in late
52:11 one day yes absolutely but I don't think
52:14 you can put every single thing into
52:19 something like this so I think this this
52:24 discussion has been great things I
52:27 wouldn't have thought about and I'm glad
52:29 that you guys are a typical lighting
52:34 policy commission that you are really
52:37 looking at the details and and looking
52:39 at stuff but I like the seven I like the
52:42 you know but I think the chair has to
52:45 have some responsibility and in looking
52:48 at it well maybe it's better if the
52:50 original if the regular member votes
52:52 instead of that see they all see that
52:55 there are times when that might happen
52:58 so madam chair I respectfully disagree I
53:02 think what we realized that we're not
53:04 across our judicial body along the lines
53:07 the development Commission and I realize
53:09 also I agree that this we don't have
53:11 this issue come up but it seems to me
53:15 that one sentence in this that says in
53:19 the event that a commissioner misses
53:23 arrives late and the alternate is
53:27 filling in for that commissioner the
53:31 change to me should be defined about how
53:35 that happens and not be arbitrary which
53:40 is have somebody saying well we'll
53:42 figure it out what it happens and it's
53:45 it's not complicated to me it just it
53:47 just you know it's one sentence
53:48 additional though
53:54 an alternate filling in for Commissioner
53:57 will be expected to do so and until and
54:01 unless the Commissioner arrives at which
54:04 point the Commissioner will assume the
54:08 responsibility for the continuation a
54:11 question of what if you're in the middle
54:12 of a discussion and what if the vote is
54:15 coming up do you step away at that time
54:18 so are you going to add that too no I
54:21 don't think we have to if I could make
54:23 I'm sorry I can't make a comment so I
54:26 think without any changes that if you
54:29 read the rules to their literal phrasing
54:32 it's the alternate serves in the absence
54:34 of regular members so if an irregular
54:35 that regular member that seventh person
54:38 arrives the alternate would
54:40 automatically not be serving and I think
54:42 if you want to make an exception for
54:44 that you could add it to the rules
54:47 however I also think as the regular
54:50 member that walks in late and you walk
54:52 in in the rooms full and there's
54:53 discussion going that you could say
54:56 madam chair I would like to wait to
54:59 resume my seat until this item is
55:02 completed and I don't think you need the
55:04 rules to allowed I think that could be
55:06 within your right so I think so there
55:11 you have it yes well maybe in
55:14 parentheses thing right in the optional
55:17 phrase that we could use an optional
55:19 phrase but that way it's a learning
55:21 experience for those who come later and
55:24 read it and go oh I can do this
55:26 I'm not crazy about parentheses and
55:28 bylaws just for those well in the
55:32 wording that the transportation advisory
55:35 board has kind of just gives that
55:37 allowance by saying that the alternate
55:41 may continue to serve until the agenda
55:44 item in it so it's allowing more space
55:46 for that exception to be made by the
55:48 regular member who wants to kind of the
55:51 discretion of the chair I mean that
55:52 could be language may serve at the
55:54 discretion of the chair as well I not a
55:57 big
55:58 of that language because the the member
56:01 has the right not the chair in that case
56:05 sir question okay thank you all right so
56:12 I'm gonna hand it off to your section
56:16 we're gonna move on to yeah so we'll add
56:18 the language that we just discussed and
56:21 as Tina mentioned you'll have an
56:23 opportunity to see that on the 23rd so
56:25 you can use some of your new skills to
56:27 amend the rules if you want to deviate
56:30 from what we just talked about so we
56:34 didn't make change so there are some
56:36 changes to the voting section of your
56:38 rules but they're not substantial
56:40 we recently this past year went through
56:43 creating some council rules of procedure
56:45 and came up with what I think is some
56:48 really clear language around voting so
56:50 we use that language here in your rules
56:53 and I just wanted to go over those
56:56 provisions with you because I think it's
56:57 just really important as you're serving
57:00 so as Tina explained one important
57:04 aspect of the voting process is to be
57:05 clear who is voting and that's
57:07 particularly important because your
57:09 nametags or there's nothing in your
57:11 seating arrangement or otherwise that
57:12 visually indicates who's voting in who's
57:15 not so the chair saying that at the
57:17 outset of the meeting or when there's
57:19 some change in people up here you know
57:21 due to someone late arriving is really
57:23 important then also as I'm sure you're
57:26 very aware but just as a reminder there
57:28 are well there are very minimal reasons
57:31 why you may not vote as a member it's
57:34 one of your primary obligations as being
57:37 a commissioner but if you have a
57:39 conflict of interest you should state
57:42 that before a vote on an issue and then
57:46 it is up to the commission to decide by
57:49 a majority vote if you should or should
57:51 not be excused from voting and you could
57:53 phrase your conflict in that way I would
57:55 like to ask that I be excused from
57:57 voting but it does come to a vote and if
58:00 it's determined that you should not
58:01 participate you would leave the room I
58:04 it sounds as if you don't get many
58:07 quasi-judicial items before you so I'm
58:10 not there basically the the rules your
58:13 rules don't specifically talk about the
58:15 appearance of fairness doctrine because
58:16 it's addressed in state law but they do
58:18 say that that
58:19 maybe another reason why you wouldn't be
58:21 allowed to vote then we come to
58:23 abstentions we're a little your rules
58:27 specify that if you abstain from voting
58:29 you will have voted yes and this aligns
58:32 with the council's rules which are
58:35 actually in the Municipal Code and it's
58:38 important because it does deviate from
58:39 Roberts rules so it might be
58:41 inconsistent if you've served on other
58:43 boards or commissions so if you and we
58:47 feel that intent behind this is to
58:48 really compel you to vote we need things
58:50 done we're a small community you're a
58:52 small group we need to you know move
58:54 things forward so if you felt it was
58:57 important to abstain on a vote you would
58:59 need to say something during debate
59:01 because the chair isn't going to know
59:02 when she calls the vote if you're maybe
59:04 just not paying attention or if you're
59:06 intentionally staying silent but your
59:09 vote will be counted as a yay it's not
59:11 going to be noted any differently so we
59:14 want you to be aware of that yeah that's
59:16 a pause so you really hear that one
59:19 which is an abstention doesn't mean
59:22 you're neutral
59:23 it just means you are going with the
59:28 favored the the yes vote you sort of
59:33 delegated that that yes to the do your
59:39 commit other commissioners make sure
59:42 instead so if I have a conflict of
59:43 interest in some things my recognize
59:45 that other than like valid like there's
59:47 a real estate there's property and so I
59:52 actually I'm going to abstain maybe I'm
59:54 no we would want you to recuse yourself
59:58 or what conflict of interest conflict of
1:00:03 interests and recuse yourself from the
1:00:04 discussion and and move to not be in
1:00:10 attendance at that time and that is not
1:00:12 a yes vote that is a different that is a
1:00:13 no vote that a no discussion
1:00:16 that basically if you're in the room
1:00:18 there's gonna be a vote counted for you
1:00:20 so if there's a conflict and you are
1:00:22 being recused or excused from voting you
1:00:24 would work similarly with the appearance
1:00:26 of fairness disclosure you would not be
1:00:28 up there for the vote yeah another vote
1:00:33 for the discussion period either yeah
1:00:36 and I guess if that depends it you know
1:00:38 I would suggest also if this is an issue
1:00:40 you should reach out to staff and we can
1:00:41 also put you in touch with our city
1:00:42 attorney if you want to discuss more of
1:00:44 the nuances of when that should happen
1:00:46 or how you bring it forward but as far
1:00:49 as voting I wanted you to be aware that
1:00:51 that you would need to leave the room
1:00:56 that abstaining is a yes vote there's
1:00:58 not a provision for sitting in your
1:01:00 chair and not voting and not having your
1:01:01 vote counted and can the commissioner
1:01:04 who leaves the room come back at the end
1:01:07 new agenda comes up they can come back
1:01:10 in right and we typically when that
1:01:11 happens we just note in the in the
1:01:13 minutes commissioner so-and-so returned
1:01:15 that next time or returned and it's
1:01:18 reflected in the order of when they
1:01:21 reenter
1:01:23 yeah okay and the other two aspects of
1:01:27 this I have some separate slides for so
1:01:29 at the meeting the joint meeting with
1:01:32 the Development Commission in May we
1:01:33 talked a little bit about efficient
1:01:35 meetings and we talked about unanimous
1:01:36 consent a little bit but it is a great
1:01:38 tool and so I wanted to just remind you
1:01:42 of it tonight and give you two different
1:01:44 examples just some caveats that it
1:01:47 should be used for things that are
1:01:49 routine and not controversial it
1:01:52 shouldn't be used for example for your
1:01:54 ultimate recommendation to the council
1:01:56 or to adopt findings of fact or amend
1:01:58 your rules but it is a great tool in
1:02:01 other regards so this sounds like the
1:02:04 chair saying you know the minutes of
1:02:06 November 14th are on the agenda for
1:02:08 approval is there any objection to
1:02:10 approving them as presented pause got to
1:02:13 be a pause so that someone has an
1:02:15 opportunity to object and actually you
1:02:17 could continue going with this even if
1:02:19 so say there's there is maybe not quite
1:02:22 an objection but yes actually i see on
1:02:25 page two some comments I made were
1:02:27 attributed to a different Commissioner
1:02:28 I'd like to move that they be amended
1:02:30 the chair could say is there any
1:02:32 objection to the amendment on page two
1:02:34 to attribute the comments to this
1:02:36 Commissioner hearing none pause that
1:02:39 amendment is approved is there any
1:02:41 objection to amending the minutes as
1:02:42 approved hearing none the minutes as
1:02:45 amended are approved another way you can
1:02:48 use this unanimous consent that I think
1:02:50 would work well for the Commission is
1:02:52 for public hearings so there doesn't
1:02:55 need to be a motion to close a public
1:02:56 hearing but as you probably know once a
1:02:59 public hearing is closed it's closed and
1:03:01 so it can be a good opportunity to check
1:03:05 in with your fellow commissioners to
1:03:07 ensure there's not a desire to continue
1:03:08 hearing from the community so the chair
1:03:10 could say is there any objection to
1:03:12 closing the public hearing now if there
1:03:15 is in this case it needs to be some more
1:03:17 information so that so someone objects
1:03:20 in the chair might say do you have a
1:03:21 motion to continue this hearing - and
1:03:23 that that needs to include a date and a
1:03:25 time or your next regular meeting and at
1:03:28 that point you could take a vote on
1:03:29 whether to continue the public hearing
1:03:32 to your next regular meeting or you
1:03:34 could do a unanimous consent again
1:03:36 so just being mindful with unanimous
1:03:38 consent if anyone says objector or has
1:03:42 any hesitation with it likely the issue
1:03:45 needs to be voted on because with a
1:03:47 unanimous consent motion there can't be
1:03:49 any disagreement there also can't be
1:03:51 debate if you're going to debate
1:03:52 something it it should result in a vote
1:03:56 and there are some nuances to that but I
1:03:58 think the simplest way to proceed is if
1:04:02 there is opposition or uncertainty
1:04:05 proceed with the vote there's no
1:04:06 requirement you do this but it is a tool
1:04:08 that you can use so if we wanted to have
1:04:13 a motion and a second that's perfectly
1:04:18 fine it can be helpful if you're sort of
1:04:21 midstream with a discussion or if it's
1:04:24 something really minor so maybe there's
1:04:26 a wording issue you notice incorrect
1:04:29 word or you know I'm missing a missing
1:04:31 word a missing letter I mean you know
1:04:33 something very simple and it feels a
1:04:34 little strange to have a full fledged
1:04:36 vote on it but you're always needing to
1:04:38 ensure there's agreement even for small
1:04:40 changes like that because again you're
1:04:42 making decisions as a group not one
1:04:43 person with a loud voice or one person
1:04:45 with a persuasive argument so unanimous
1:04:47 consent can be a way to kind of ensure
1:04:49 is there any objection to this and sort
1:04:53 of just be clear moving forward that the
1:04:56 group has authorized so objection to the
1:05:00 minutes is not the mean I'm seeing so
1:05:06 yeah I'm
1:05:07 when I went read the the packet I don't
1:05:11 think that's what I said or my fellow
1:05:13 commissioners said but that's not Anna
1:05:15 that should be described as as an
1:05:19 objection to approval of the minutes or
1:05:22 is it a correction or requested I'm not
1:05:25 quite clear so I think the example I was
1:05:28 giving what the chair was saying is
1:05:30 there any objection to approving the
1:05:31 minutes it's presented and in the
1:05:33 scenario I was saying there was because
1:05:35 there was a error and so there was an
1:05:39 objection so that there could be an
1:05:41 opportunity to correct okay so
1:05:43 there is yes I have an objection because
1:05:46 on page three so okay yeah let's offer
1:05:49 an amendment you don't need to as Tina
1:05:51 mentioned at the outset you don't need
1:05:53 to get too caught up on the wording of a
1:05:58 wording of the wording of you're saying
1:06:03 no wait you know I have I have an
1:06:06 amendment or I have an objection in an
1:06:09 amendment you know whatever but just
1:06:11 making sure you at that point in time
1:06:14 clarify that you want to do something so
1:06:16 it's its objection I have a correction
1:06:19 that's why I'm saying I think I think
1:06:22 you can be flexible I think you need to
1:06:24 click let the chair know that wait let's
1:06:26 not we I'm not ready to give my consent
1:06:29 to this you simply are responding
1:06:31 raising your hand or saying madam chair
1:06:33 you know I I have an edit that needs to
1:06:38 be made yeah yeah the Edit needs a
1:06:42 motion and a second or if it's it can if
1:06:46 that's just easy for you to move through
1:06:48 the item then proceed in that path but
1:06:50 you you can still deal with an amendment
1:06:52 through you know you there's there no
1:06:56 objection to making that change seeing
1:06:59 none it's incorporated although you know
1:07:02 the minutes are approved without
1:07:04 objection okay and in that vein I wanted
1:07:11 to just talk for a minute about voting
1:07:13 protocol because it is important and it
1:07:17 sort of just we emphasizes some of the
1:07:20 things we've talked about tonight but so
1:07:22 what does it sound like and I know you
1:07:24 do this all the time so you're very
1:07:26 familiar with this language but I'll
1:07:28 just run through the voting protocol so
1:07:30 it would sound like you know is there
1:07:31 any further discussion on this issue if
1:07:34 there's none the motion before the body
1:07:36 is to approve the findings of fact on
1:07:38 Oaktown sub-area plan as amended
1:07:41 all those in favor aye all those opposed
1:07:45 by a vote of three to two the findings
1:07:49 of fact are adopted so just and I know
1:07:54 chairs change and you fill in for each
1:07:56 other this is really important to get
1:08:00 right during a meeting to ensure that
1:08:02 everyone has an opportunity to cast
1:08:04 their vote that they're clear on what's
1:08:06 being voted on and then it's an outcome
1:08:08 is announced so that the you and the
1:08:11 public are are clear and if you're
1:08:13 unsure what the outcome is you know
1:08:15 phone a friend talk to one of the ladies
1:08:20 over here to get clarity you know if if
1:08:22 it's a tie vote it does fail and most
1:08:25 all you're the Municipal Code states
1:08:28 that your proposals must be approved by
1:08:30 a majority of a quorum so that's going
1:08:32 to be a majority of the number of people
1:08:34 serving here yeah if it's unclear what
1:08:37 the outcome of the vote is it's
1:08:39 important to deal with that right away
1:08:41 so the chair would say cut those in
1:08:44 favor
1:08:45 who said I can you raise your hands as
1:08:48 well and then you take that moment to
1:08:50 raise your hands and and those that were
1:08:53 in the negative please confirm by
1:08:55 raising your hand as well so that way
1:08:57 you can get the true count I know but
1:09:02 you wouldn't want to have a vote only by
1:09:06 show of hands so just remember it's
1:09:08 voice and show of hands if you're going
1:09:09 to go to that level and anyone can ask
1:09:13 for that I'm unclear and then you would
1:09:16 pause and say you know who were the eyes
1:09:20 and who are the nays
1:09:25 so we would like to ensure that you're
1:09:30 clear on your rules and regulations so
1:09:32 if you have any questions either on the
1:09:34 sections we covered or on other sections
1:09:36 or had any changes in mind this would be
1:09:39 a great opportunity to talk about those
1:09:41 and we have another section prepared but
1:09:44 I see that we're at our time and so we
1:09:47 can I think what might be best is to see
1:09:51 if there's any I have maybe a few points
1:09:54 I'd like to make and then we can open it
1:09:56 up to questions but before we do that
1:09:58 any other aspects of the rules that
1:10:01 you'd like to discuss yes yeah members
1:10:05 have a right between efficient meeting
1:10:06 number six and so I'm confused
1:10:09 maybe you don't want to talk about that
1:10:10 now because you haven't talked about it
1:10:12 but I just have a question about that
1:10:15 now let's let's go for it
1:10:18 because we are at our time so I think
1:10:21 our plan time so why don't we if you saw
1:10:25 some materials in the packet that were
1:10:27 yeah I think I've been signals by will
1:10:32 looked at a chair to find out what would
1:10:34 you how much time are you affording us I
1:10:37 was going to say does anybody want to
1:10:40 make a motion to extend the time
1:10:44 continuation of the discussion by 10
1:10:48 minutes
1:10:48 does anybody I'd like to make a second
1:10:51 to that meeting but that's discussion
1:11:04 okay so so consents then I think we'll
1:11:09 back up a little bit is that okay if me
1:11:11 okay and so were there any other
1:11:14 questions on the rules I did have one
1:11:16 question that was I believe it's it's
1:11:19 back on the previous page we were
1:11:22 looking about alternates and it had
1:11:25 mentioned inadvertent quorums so just to
1:11:29 be clear if I'm out
1:11:33 Reinhardt and we happen to talk about
1:11:35 something that happened tonight
1:11:37 there's something that might happen at
1:11:39 the next meeting that would not be
1:11:42 appropriate what it it's not a violation
1:11:46 if you're talking to one other member
1:11:47 it's a violation if you are have
1:11:51 proceeded to take that conversation and
1:11:55 talk to two other members so if you've
1:11:57 reached a quorum of your commission or
1:12:00 or gathered of four members and you're
1:12:05 discussing your board business that that
1:12:09 would be a no-no I added the word
1:12:10 inadvertent because it's sort of its OPM
1:12:14 a-and you're obligated to serve in that
1:12:15 capacity and we just thought we
1:12:18 recognized that individuals are not
1:12:22 purposefully violating the OPA and and
1:12:25 we want to ensure that you're not
1:12:27 inverting Lee doing it by having a
1:12:28 discussion so my understanding is as
1:12:30 long as there's not four of us well
1:12:32 because there's not a workable quorum or
1:12:34 like a part of stream or a string like
1:12:37 we some almost like a public hearing
1:12:39 we're not continuing this conversation
1:12:41 I'm not trying to vote gather with other
1:12:42 Commission to correct that bill on
1:12:44 Thursday I talked to Jill and on Friday
1:12:47 and I'm not gathering the idea being as
1:12:49 long as the conversation ended between
1:12:51 the two of us that's acceptable
1:12:53 acceptable and you can share information
1:12:59 to the entire Commission so long as
1:13:03 you're not then discussing it as a
1:13:05 commission outside of the meeting so if
1:13:08 you read an article and didn't shape an
1:13:11 opinion around it and just said I found
1:13:13 an interesting article I'm sharing it
1:13:14 with you you can also pass it on to the
1:13:16 staff liaison to do that for you so you
1:13:19 are more separated from that optics yeah
1:13:25 more or less just talking to people
1:13:27 outside but like you said just keeping
1:13:30 it separate
1:13:32 all right so I'll cover this quickly but
1:13:36 I think that we wanted to talk to you a
1:13:38 little bit about parliamentary procedure
1:13:40 and you know we know that many times
1:13:42 there's not you know a large audience
1:13:44 here and you have probably become
1:13:45 familiar with each other and you're a
1:13:47 smaller group but it is still important
1:13:50 to have some sort of fundamental
1:13:52 practices and this really protects you
1:13:55 if you have changes in membership and
1:13:58 maybe have a person who is put you know
1:14:01 may have a tendency to try and dominate
1:14:03 a meeting as you recently experienced
1:14:05 when there's controversy those things
1:14:07 can kind of shine a light on the
1:14:09 practices and if you have certain
1:14:11 protocols in place and we're not so we
1:14:16 are not suggesting that you follow
1:14:18 Robert's rule to the to the letter in
1:14:20 every situation but they'll help they'll
1:14:22 help make it easier they'll help your
1:14:23 meaning run smoother and take less time
1:14:26 so Robert's Rules is almost 700 pages so
1:14:31 it's a it's a big book these are six key
1:14:34 principles that most everything in here
1:14:37 falls under these were taken from one of
1:14:39 our local experts and McFarland of
1:14:42 Jurrasic parliament who does a lot of
1:14:43 trainings so I'm just going to go
1:14:45 through these real quickly and just
1:14:46 highlight a couple things that I think
1:14:47 are helpful and important and then if
1:14:50 you have any questions and we do have a
1:14:52 quiz sort of at the back of this section
1:14:54 you can you can take that on your on
1:14:56 your own at a later time but the first
1:14:59 principle is the majority must be
1:15:02 allowed to rule and so this gets back to
1:15:03 what we were talking about earlier that
1:15:05 if someone has a good idea and is vocal
1:15:06 about it that's great but it's important
1:15:08 to ensure that the group is ok with it
1:15:10 too and not just sort of move on and so
1:15:12 that's why a motion is important to vote
1:15:15 is important or a unanimous consent some
1:15:17 way to ensure there's a gauge of the
1:15:19 full group on a new concept another
1:15:23 point here is that motions have to be
1:15:25 seconded so this is a protection it's
1:15:27 not ok if just one person wants to talk
1:15:29 about something a proposal they need at
1:15:31 least one other person to be either
1:15:32 supportive or curious something else is
1:15:36 and these are sort of minor points but
1:15:39 once a decision is made by the group and
1:15:42 that decision isn't before you again
1:15:44 it's not really appropriate
1:15:45 negatively about it and that's again
1:15:47 sort of honoring that that was the
1:15:48 decision made by the group at that time
1:15:50 and and you're gonna honor honor that
1:15:53 but of course the minority has rights
1:15:56 this comes to the quorum there need to
1:15:58 be four of you to conduct any business
1:16:00 there's a lot of equity and we'll talk
1:16:03 in a minute about equity but there is a
1:16:04 lot of equity among the group and and
1:16:06 that's really critical to ensure that
1:16:08 you've sort of set things up to be fair
1:16:10 and I have some suggestions for ways
1:16:13 that you can do that and one of the
1:16:16 things to think about here that's in
1:16:18 robert's rules almost all motions just
1:16:20 require a majority of those present but
1:16:22 motions that require a higher threshold
1:16:23 which are two thirds are those that
1:16:25 close debate or put parameters on debate
1:16:27 so those are really valued mechanisms
1:16:31 and are if if there's a desire to do
1:16:35 that a motion needs to be made and a 2/3
1:16:37 vote which is five of seven is required
1:16:40 so one of the minority right protections
1:16:44 is each person speaks under debate once
1:16:48 before anyone speaks a second time sort
1:16:50 of all viewpoints get put out there and
1:16:52 one of the suggestions that Ann
1:16:55 McFarland has and I think it's a great
1:16:57 suggestion and it's one that is
1:16:58 generally used at Council as well as
1:17:00 sort of doing the round-robin
1:17:01 so everyone wants through if not
1:17:03 everyone speaks that's fine but it's
1:17:05 sort of allowed it allows that space
1:17:07 where everyone gets an opportunity for
1:17:09 input before someone starts speaking a
1:17:11 second or third time it also can really
1:17:13 help defuse things and we'll talk about
1:17:14 that in a minute another principle is
1:17:19 that you have the right for to have
1:17:21 information at hand and I'm not sure
1:17:22 I've watched parts of some of your
1:17:25 meetings if this is used now but you can
1:17:27 so generally it's not okay to interrupt
1:17:31 someone who has the floor but there are
1:17:32 some exceptions to that if you feel like
1:17:34 some procedure is off like something is
1:17:38 not happening the right way or you're
1:17:40 unsure what's going on what is the
1:17:43 motion is Robin voting right now or you
1:17:48 know anything that come comes up you can
1:17:50 interrupt and say point of order and ask
1:17:53 the chair who can also phone a friend if
1:17:55 they need help to provide clarity or
1:17:58 sort of
1:17:59 sometimes sort of rule on a decision
1:18:02 this might be also if you feel like
1:18:05 someone's going really off-topic because
1:18:07 one of the critical aspects of debate is
1:18:09 needs to stay on topic not just on the
1:18:10 top it been on the motion so that can be
1:18:14 easy to slide away from that and it's
1:18:16 totally appropriate and ok to say point
1:18:18 of order I think we're straying and so
1:18:21 again just want to emphasize that
1:18:23 there's some other sort of technical
1:18:26 points that you can make but one I
1:18:29 wanted to mention is that a proposal be
1:18:31 made in writing so if there's a motion
1:18:33 in front of the group and you're feeling
1:18:35 a little you think you heard it right
1:18:36 but you're not totally sure you can ask
1:18:39 that it be written down and that you
1:18:40 know you can take a brief recess you can
1:18:42 keep the discussion going and have
1:18:44 someone write the proposal you can ask
1:18:46 for some staff help and getting
1:18:47 something up on the screen but just know
1:18:49 that's within your right and totally an
1:18:51 appropriate thing to ask for so talking
1:18:56 a little bit about debate so it needs to
1:18:59 be respectful and it needs to be
1:19:00 courteous and you know I I'm sure I
1:19:03 don't need to belabor that point but
1:19:05 mostly I wanted to talk here about it
1:19:09 not interrupting except under those
1:19:11 special circumstances and also not
1:19:12 engaging in back-and-forth dialogue
1:19:14 because I think it's so natural for us
1:19:16 to do that especially when there are
1:19:18 questions in the debate you know maybe
1:19:21 you're sort of posing a question as
1:19:23 you're processing something it's not
1:19:25 really appropriate for maybe a person
1:19:27 who knows the answer to just jump in
1:19:29 there right so the chairs the
1:19:31 facilitator and the comments need to go
1:19:33 through her even to the point where you
1:19:37 know really things should be addressed
1:19:39 towards her ideally and not you know
1:19:41 torture your neighbor the person you're
1:19:43 directing in again this helps diffuse
1:19:46 and that round-robin method I was
1:19:49 talking about also helps with this back
1:19:51 and forth so it's not this sort of it
1:19:54 just it keeps keep things a little more
1:19:56 diffused I keep using that word but it's
1:19:59 a good word also I'll add that if if
1:20:03 there's a question posed and you know
1:20:04 the answer to it you could certainly ask
1:20:06 the chair you know madam chair I
1:20:08 can I take a minute to answer that
1:20:10 question and you know there can be
1:20:12 allowance for that but I'd say as a norm
1:20:14 it's a good idea to try and give space
1:20:17 and time for that round-robin approach
1:20:21 question yeah we have a chair I have a
1:20:27 question that a concern another
1:20:31 Commission member instead of me
1:20:33 addressing the other Commission number I
1:20:34 should ask the chair or a clarification
1:20:37 of what does man technically and I know
1:20:40 that can feel awkward and again we're
1:20:42 not here to say you should never never
1:20:44 look another of your colleagues in the
1:20:45 eye while you're speaking but you know
1:20:48 it's it would be totally appropriate for
1:20:52 you to you know madam chair you don't
1:20:55 even need to exactly address at ER but
1:20:57 just say I heard some comments for my
1:20:58 colleague that I'm hoping you know he
1:21:00 can address in response to this issue
1:21:03 again I'm not suggesting you can't turn
1:21:06 to each other just but it is important
1:21:08 to remember that the chairs the
1:21:10 facilitator and in control in control as
1:21:13 far as the dynamics of the meeting and I
1:21:15 think it's it's not a bad practice to
1:21:19 try as much as possible to orientate
1:21:22 yourself that way and also that can be
1:21:24 helpful when you're dealing with the
1:21:25 public too I think it can be confusing
1:21:27 sometimes when you're when you're
1:21:29 speaking to the audience because the
1:21:32 meaning is among your Commission you
1:21:34 have opportunities for them to
1:21:35 participate excuse me
1:21:36 during a public hearing or during
1:21:39 audience comments but when you're
1:21:40 deliberating this is your time and I
1:21:43 think sometimes it can imply that they
1:21:44 have a role in responding when that's
1:21:47 not necessarily the case for them to
1:21:48 come up again and talk you you could ask
1:21:51 the chair you know I'd really like to
1:21:52 hear from someone we heard from either
1:21:54 earlier but it wouldn't be appropriate
1:21:56 to you know to have them shout from the
1:21:59 audience and so I think again kind of
1:22:01 focusing in on your chair helps that all
1:22:05 seem seem more natural and it focuses
1:22:09 that energy and the chair could use that
1:22:12 as an opportunity to say is there an
1:22:13 objection to hearing because it is
1:22:16 unusual to bring someone for the
1:22:18 audience back we've already heard from
1:22:20 is there an objection if if we do that
1:22:23 if there's an objection then you should
1:22:26 move on okay well one other one other
1:22:41 point to mention here is just we've been
1:22:44 talking about the chair the role of the
1:22:45 chair a lot and it is an important role
1:22:47 but the wonderful thing about being a
1:22:52 deliberative body is you don't really
1:22:54 have statuses I mean you do have that
1:22:56 alternate regular member distinction but
1:22:58 otherwise you're kind of all on equal
1:22:59 footing and even though the chair is
1:23:01 really facilitating the meeting it's it
1:23:04 is the idea is that they're using in
1:23:07 push impartiality and restraint in the
1:23:09 environment I worked in previously at
1:23:11 the state legislature if the chair
1:23:13 desire to make comments on a proposal
1:23:15 they relinquish their chair and gave it
1:23:17 to a colleague and stepped down so they
1:23:19 could make comments and that was really
1:23:20 to protect that role as a neutral
1:23:22 facilitator and in a small board that is
1:23:25 not necessary but there are some best
1:23:28 practices there which can be speaking at
1:23:31 last can be voting last just again
1:23:33 demonstrating that you are facilitating
1:23:36 the group and you're not it's not that
1:23:38 role isn't being used as an opportunity
1:23:40 to speak twice as much as everyone else
1:23:42 so those are just wanted to point out
1:23:44 sometimes it can be confusing about the
1:23:47 privileges associated with that role but
1:23:49 it's really one of neutral facilitator
1:23:53 members have a right to an efficient
1:23:56 meeting so you have an agenda that's
1:23:59 provided to you with times
1:24:00 I'm thank you for your graciousness
1:24:02 tonight allowing some extra time again
1:24:07 we talked about debate needs to be
1:24:09 specific to emotion emotion is also
1:24:11 important if someone's belaboring a
1:24:13 point and there's not emotion it could
1:24:15 be appropriate to encourage them to make
1:24:16 a motion because maybe there's not a
1:24:18 second for their emotion so emotion is a
1:24:21 great tool to help ensure that you're
1:24:23 not just talking talking you're talking
1:24:25 towards a point in time and the words of
1:24:29 emotion are important they are
1:24:32 what we don't want to hear as clerks is
1:24:36 so moved
1:24:39 emotion is I move too and then specifics
1:24:42 what is the motion what is the action
1:24:45 what is the direction that's the
1:24:47 component that's really important
1:24:49 because it provides clarity on what they
1:24:52 hear and and what you're actually voting
1:24:55 on so I think that I've covered the bulk
1:25:03 of these principles and some of the
1:25:04 points that I was hoping to share with
1:25:06 you and as I mentioned there there are
1:25:07 some quiz questions which you're welcome
1:25:09 to you know take a look at take a gander
1:25:12 at if you're interested but were there
1:25:15 any questions on any of those points or
1:25:16 anything else procedurally Bob efficient
1:25:21 meetings so line number two limited
1:25:25 discussion will allow prior to motion I
1:25:27 got a bit confused when I was reading
1:25:29 your essential minutes in your the
1:25:31 essential guidelines which is also part
1:25:33 of the package and if you go to the
1:25:36 essential guidelines it seems to imply
1:25:39 something different about the the the
1:25:43 process the essential do you have that
1:25:45 the essential guidelines is the first
1:25:51 page of the essential guidelines for
1:25:53 citizen advisory committees its middle
1:25:56 of it says ordinarily a committee member
1:25:58 must make a motion for any discussion
1:26:01 begins
1:26:02 there's no second the most is not taken
1:26:04 up so I compare that with what I just
1:26:07 read on this second line and I'm getting
1:26:10 confused to when exactly discussion is
1:26:14 allowed to take place yeah that's a very
1:26:17 that was a very nuanced aspect there
1:26:20 thank you for picking up on that so the
1:26:22 reason is that you're considered a small
1:26:24 board there are less than 12 of you so
1:26:26 in Robert's Rules there's a whole
1:26:28 specific section to small boards and
1:26:30 they kind of say some things like you
1:26:32 don't need to stand up when you talk
1:26:33 because in some more formal groups you
1:26:35 you would they also say things like
1:26:37 there can be some discussion before
1:26:39 emotion but I do as I mentioned I do
1:26:42 think that
1:26:44 not sure how this flow is naturally for
1:26:46 your group I know it counsel usually
1:26:48 there's some question and answer time
1:26:50 and then maybe a little of discussion
1:26:52 but then usually the chair sort of
1:26:54 prompting that emotion be made again to
1:26:57 help move the meeting along so there is
1:27:01 some latitude for a small board and that
1:27:03 and that's what you are picking up on
1:27:06 any other questions why we haven't it
1:27:22 has to do with the voting so you have
1:27:24 seven members and so in order for a
1:27:27 quorum to be you divide it in half and
1:27:29 you add one so you have seven members
1:27:34 yeah you round up and divide it in half
1:27:37 basically no but if therefore if you
1:27:41 only have four it does make it difficult
1:27:43 that's but a tie ultimately fails tie
1:27:47 fails I fail mm-hmm and that's why you
1:27:50 have seven members I mean we recommend
1:27:52 is the clerk's office that you have an
1:27:53 odd number group but your your dynamics
1:27:56 are gonna change you're going to end up
1:27:57 with an even number occasionally right
1:27:59 and that's something that as our clerks
1:28:03 here we when we tend council meetings if
1:28:05 we're down what individual we start
1:28:09 thinking about in our case the mayor
1:28:12 does have some voting rights on occasion
1:28:15 and we start looking at our agenda items
1:28:17 to figure out what if there were to be a
1:28:19 tie vote and and how would we manage the
1:28:22 meeting in those cases because she can
1:28:25 break a tie in certain circumstances I'm
1:28:29 recalling a time where we had something
1:28:32 emotional failed and we continued
1:28:35 discussion and were able to come to a
1:28:37 consensus and have a vote and we've also
1:28:39 had other times where we've sent it back
1:28:41 and with an advisory of a split rather
1:28:43 than a fail so are either of those
1:28:46 situations permissible where we find
1:28:49 that failure continue on to
1:28:51 find latitude as well as sending it on
1:28:54 as an advisory split though it is
1:28:56 technically a failure for the first
1:28:58 scenario that's a parliamentary
1:29:00 procedure called a reconsideration and
1:29:02 that's a right that you have usually
1:29:04 during the same meeting and it's
1:29:06 interesting it was actually a bullet
1:29:08 point under the rights of the majority
1:29:09 because technically someone who voted in
1:29:11 the majority so if it failed someone who
1:29:14 voted to fail it or to not support it
1:29:17 would have to say I'd like to reconsider
1:29:20 the vote and if and then there's a vote
1:29:25 on that and if a majority believe the
1:29:28 vote should be reconsidered then that
1:29:29 votes in front of the group again and
1:29:31 can be voted on again and that's the
1:29:32 final word it just kind of wipes the
1:29:35 slate clean of the prior vote so there
1:29:37 is a mechanism it's a second vote on it
1:29:40 versus redressing the issue well
1:29:42 technically that that is the way to
1:29:45 redress the issues every consideration
1:29:47 properly but you know it sounds like
1:29:51 that or it organically came to be I'm
1:29:54 technically the group's not supposed to
1:29:56 consider the same question twice in a
1:29:59 meeting this is again to help with
1:30:00 efficient meetings if it fails it fails
1:30:01 unless someone who failed it has changed
1:30:04 their mind it shouldn't be before the
1:30:05 group again so there but there is a
1:30:07 mechanism for that and there is a
1:30:09 mechanism for doing that even at a
1:30:11 subsequent meeting that requires some
1:30:14 higher vote thresholds and some noticing
1:30:16 but if the group you know is wanting to
1:30:18 take a different position on the other
1:30:20 situation that you explained
1:30:23 I'd say that's sort of outside of the
1:30:24 realm of parliamentary procedure and
1:30:26 more that was more of a statement by the
1:30:27 Commission and so I'm assuming there was
1:30:31 maybe there was a discussion about the
1:30:33 vote failing but a desire to ensure that
1:30:36 that was conveyed to the body you are
1:30:38 recommending - and I'm not sure exactly
1:30:41 how that played out but I think I mean
1:30:43 it so the proposal that was your
1:30:46 recommendation that that you couldn't
1:30:49 come to agreement but it was a close
1:30:50 vote so that seems reasonable he still
1:30:52 recommendations yeah but you can start a
1:30:55 discussion and have a new motion that
1:30:58 has nothing to do with it so there are
1:30:59 two two things in there that have to be
1:31:03 clear is ultimately
1:31:04 vote fails you can still make a new
1:31:07 motion in order to so long a motion you
1:31:11 know concerns about the fellow
1:31:13 commissioners there is there is a lot of
1:31:18 flexibility and how you convey things I
1:31:21 think some of the basics we talked about
1:31:22 tonight or you know try and ensure
1:31:24 there's agreement be really clear on
1:31:26 what's occurring both for yourselves and
1:31:28 for those who are recording your action
1:31:30 try and seek equity among your your
1:31:35 debate and maintain that some of those
1:31:38 protocols that help ensure things stay
1:31:40 diffused and courteous so we've really
1:31:44 enjoyed our time with you tonight and
1:31:46 thank you for that extension of time
1:31:48 earlier it's great and you certainly
1:31:52 clear it up and at the same time
1:31:54 confused we know that you'll have eyes
1:32:01 on your future agenda so if there's
1:32:05 something further that needs to be
1:32:06 clarified please ask us no I think that
1:32:10 questions from the Commission were good
1:32:12 and and I think it's a good good thing
1:32:16 to go through once in a while because we
1:32:18 really haven't gone through this to the
1:32:20 extent that we've done it tonight so
1:32:22 thank you for being here is there any
1:32:26 additional good for the order discussion
1:32:29 that anybody would like to bring up
1:32:31 before we close the meeting I would I
1:32:33 would like to talk to staff about our
1:32:36 schedule that we have for the year
1:32:38 specifically what's waiting for 2021 and
1:32:41 I would like to know was why some of
1:32:44 these decisions were made we've been
1:32:46 hearing for a while that things were
1:32:47 going to be addressed and this year it
1:32:50 was under my understanding that housing
1:32:51 strategy number eight was gonna be
1:32:53 addressed this year also I'm kind of
1:32:57 curious to just hear from staff about
1:32:59 the decision that's about what's being
1:33:00 postponed to the following healthier
1:33:03 which is number eight mine aren't
1:33:05 numbered on my schedule the missing
1:33:07 middle for housing that is supposed to
1:33:12 be Oh number eight I see what you mean
1:33:13 that is supposed to be this year I
1:33:16 we're waiting when we wrote this we
1:33:19 hadn't written up our work plan for this
1:33:22 year so everything was in that box but
1:33:25 we found we're not getting another staff
1:33:28 member so it's just Kristin and I and so
1:33:30 things are sort of changed just because
1:33:34 there's only the two of us and one of us
1:33:37 is only part-time I'll let you guys
1:33:39 guess which one that is
1:33:41 and so we so we can't do as much as we
1:33:45 would like to do but well I'm not sure
1:33:47 when missing metal will come I've heard
1:33:50 because Title 18 the whole land use code
1:33:52 is coming to you and the council this
1:33:54 year that when pieces of it are worked
1:33:59 through with you all that it will go
1:34:01 into the title 18 so there's some
1:34:04 meshing of the title 18 team and and us
1:34:07 to make sure that they efficiently get
1:34:10 done it together so that you don't adopt
1:34:13 something and then it has to go into
1:34:15 title 18 and then you have to look at it
1:34:17 twice so we're trying to not have have
1:34:19 it that beat in that process
1:34:24 historic preservation will be a part of
1:34:26 that Title 18 update as well okay and
1:34:28 why aren't we getting is the is it a
1:34:30 budget thing is that is there a reason
1:34:32 that we have for why that staff member
1:34:34 isn't coming on board a lot of the staff
1:34:36 members aren't getting re refilled and I
1:34:39 part of its budget part of its just
1:34:42 trying to figure out how to do more more
1:34:45 efficiently I would request specifically
1:34:51 regarding our housing strategies that
1:34:54 though we're not going to be addressing
1:34:55 it if there's room on our calendar that
1:34:57 maybe we could have a meeting with staff
1:34:59 saying here's where we're at and
1:35:00 continue that discussion and talk about
1:35:03 talk about it a little bit rather than
1:35:05 having it completely dropped off alright
1:35:08 and the you will be getting a housing
1:35:10 report card in the first quarter that
1:35:12 talks all about the housing strategy and
1:35:14 how we're doing on all nine so that
1:35:17 that'll be coming to you but it would be
1:35:19 nice if eclis have a point in that
1:35:20 discussion where we talk about kind of
1:35:22 where staff is that no it's
1:35:25 the whole strategy is that being brought
1:35:26 won't be brought to us this year of kind
1:35:28 of an update of saying here's what our
1:35:30 thinking is here's what we're hoping and
1:35:32 crying have something that's a refresh
1:35:33 because it's obviously we've been
1:35:35 talking about these things for years and
1:35:38 so it would be nice to have something
1:35:40 updated that makes sense and I think
1:35:42 that'll be what the report card is but
1:35:44 we can present it to you so you can ask
1:35:46 questions if we don't have enough
1:35:47 information in there that you would like
1:35:49 thank you what's the status of the sign
1:35:52 code that would be part of title 18 now
1:35:55 it's not going as a separate piece okay
1:35:59 I have one do we I how often if ever do
1:36:06 we actually review planning documents of
1:36:08 adjacent cities King County on on 17 of
1:36:11 69 there's a number three says that part
1:36:14 of our duties are to review planning
1:36:17 documents of adjacent Jason cities in
1:36:19 County and other agencies so we haven't
1:36:23 in a while that's usually if in an
1:36:26 annexation something like that or like
1:36:29 when the city of Sammamish was trying to
1:36:31 incorporate there for a while it had
1:36:33 three different versions we looked at
1:36:35 that to see if any of those worked
1:36:37 better or not as well for Issaquah if
1:36:41 it's those kinds of things but we
1:36:42 haven't in a while growth targets will
1:36:44 we'll review those with you and you'll
1:36:47 be able to see what other jurisdictions
1:36:49 sort of how that whole thing is going on
1:36:51 that the mayor mentioned would that be
1:36:53 with the urban growth boundary be one of
1:36:57 the issues that might come before the
1:36:59 PPC if there were some discussion that
1:37:01 goes before King County Council I think
1:37:04 it's every five years they're allowed to
1:37:06 change it and we we would show it share
1:37:10 it with you because it would if our
1:37:13 boundary changes that's part of what you
1:37:14 all do the last time I think we did that
1:37:17 was when the Highlands when we got the
1:37:19 little bumps for Bellevue college and I
1:37:22 forgot what the other two bumps are but
1:37:24 there was something that you all looked
1:37:26 at that we did a swap for urban land and
1:37:28 rural and so we could bump out for
1:37:30 Bellevue college thank you
1:37:33 anything else I got one okay in regards
1:37:38 to the the meeting for this Saturday yes
1:37:42 we're not able to attend is staff able
1:37:45 to either in another meeting or
1:37:47 informally send out like details kind of
1:37:52 how the workshop goes what people say
1:37:54 I'll often we kind of get after in
1:37:57 meetings and we'll say we held this
1:37:58 number of workshops and this was the
1:38:00 Kathi's were the thoughts and these were
1:38:01 what was expressed to us and things like
1:38:02 that is that gonna come before us in
1:38:05 another meeting or are we able to get a
1:38:06 summary to kind of see about how we will
1:38:09 have minutes from that meeting and we
1:38:11 will also gather all the comments that
1:38:13 were made and post those on the website
1:38:15 as well and then we have a joint
1:38:17 development commission and PPC meeting
1:38:20 on Wednesday February 12th and we will
1:38:23 report back at that meeting as well
1:38:25 thank you you're welcome
1:38:26 as a side note that the land use code
1:38:29 amendments for Old Town that you all
1:38:30 reviewed back in September the last
1:38:33 public hearing you all took action on
1:38:35 September 16th those have been pushed
1:38:38 out again for the third time in City
1:38:39 Council so they will now be at the study
1:38:43 session on pensively February 25th and
1:38:48 then they will take action on those
1:38:50 March 16th so I cannot give you any
1:38:52 feedback on what council has to say
1:38:54 super February 12th is not attentive
1:38:58 anymore every february 12th is not a
1:39:00 tentative no it was last week when the
1:39:04 schedule was developed thanks for
1:39:06 pointing that out the run this excuse me
1:39:12 madam mayor this could be a good
1:39:19 opportunity to check in on upcoming
1:39:22 absences too so that they could be noted
1:39:24 on the planning calendar document that
1:39:27 you maintain or noted in the minutes
1:39:29 there you go because this is usually a
1:39:31 skit that every wall is gonna be here
1:39:33 for the 23rd we have anyone that knows
1:39:36 right now that they're not going to be
1:39:38 here for the 23rd okay and you know I
1:39:42 will also send you an RSVP by email just
1:39:45 in case you don't feel appreciated
1:39:46 enough
1:39:47 because I just really want to know that
1:39:49 you're gonna be here this land just for
1:39:53 fun anyone gonna be here to my or not
1:39:56 tomorrow morning Saturday morning with
1:39:58 the great weather for the nice tour and
1:40:00 a nice workshop couples and bring
1:40:03 shovels and galoshes - yeah Wow for oh
1:40:08 you're abstaining so this was this
1:40:17 meeting was set up to accomplish go for
1:40:22 it what i'ma do no Saturday on Saturday
1:40:26 I'm confused that's the eleventh on the
1:40:33 12th we are kicking off the old town
1:40:37 architectural standards and guidelines
1:40:40 process and we are hoping that everybody
1:40:44 from the old town neighborhood will come
1:40:45 we sent out letters to all of the old
1:40:46 town residents and property owners
1:40:48 actually so businesses were included in
1:40:50 this so as part of the old town plan
1:40:53 update you may recall that we included
1:40:57 in their policies and actions to update
1:41:01 the existing standards for the cultural
1:41:04 and business district and for the
1:41:07 multifamily areas that currently have
1:41:09 them so we'll be updating those we were
1:41:11 also asked to potentially create
1:41:14 architectural standards and our
1:41:15 guidelines for the single-family duplex
1:41:19 zone and that includes both
1:41:21 single-family houses and duplexes in
1:41:23 there I think there's been some
1:41:25 confusion because the name is zone but
1:41:27 it's for all - all the properties within
1:41:28 that area so this is something we've
1:41:31 never done before and treading treading
1:41:34 lightly on these waters and we want to
1:41:36 get together with all the property
1:41:37 owners on Saturday and say what exactly
1:41:40 do you mean by this and it's sort of do
1:41:42 you really want to regulate styles and
1:41:45 if you do let's talk about it and what
1:41:47 kinds if not tell us why and that's
1:41:49 great we'll move on and and we're gonna
1:41:52 break into small groups and have
1:41:53 discussions and do the tour and talk
1:41:55 about elements you know people are
1:41:57 walking through their town you know
1:41:58 their neighborhoods and probably
1:41:59 houses but don't see elements so that's
1:42:01 the purpose of the tour is to start
1:42:03 looking at the individual pieces so it
1:42:05 won't be structure as a public hearing
1:42:06 know it is simply discussion there are
1:42:09 no decisions being made at that meeting
1:42:11 it is simply discussion to get feedback
1:42:12 from property owners a senior it's in
1:42:15 the Senior Center versus at the Senior
1:42:18 Center it's just the opposite started
1:42:21 the senior or started - Senior Center do
1:42:23 a tour and then have our workshop also
1:42:25 at the Senior Center so Chris the the
1:42:31 old town architectural standards are
1:42:33 going to be developed in the future but
1:42:37 we're not going to use the same process
1:42:39 for the old town that would be that
1:42:41 we've used for the architectural
1:42:43 standards for the Central District which
1:42:46 was a consultant comes in and says
1:42:48 here's you know here's what we think
1:42:51 would be a good range of options for
1:42:54 this area and so on and it was a pretty
1:42:57 it was a you know it was really good
1:43:00 process as far as I was concerned
1:43:01 because it really gave everybody an idea
1:43:04 if you want to do this here here are
1:43:06 your options but so on it's it's similar
1:43:10 we have a consultant who's done this
1:43:12 before who's coming in to do this for us
1:43:14 same one different consultant okay she
1:43:18 has worked with neighborhoods before and
1:43:21 done this with single-family properties
1:43:22 singer family single family is a little
1:43:24 different than it is when you do big
1:43:26 giant buildings so I think it's a little
1:43:27 more sensitive in this case and we're
1:43:29 trying to recognize that and acknowledge
1:43:31 that so it's similar but slightly
1:43:34 different I will say Lucy slummin who
1:43:36 worked on the standard for central
1:43:38 Issaquah is also very involved in this
1:43:40 process so we're following it closely
1:43:42 can you send us an invite so we can get
1:43:44 on her counters it was I believe you
1:43:46 received an agenda yesterday that
1:43:49 special meeting a special meeting on the
1:43:51 11th oh I didn't seem to have it on your
1:43:53 calendars it is Saturday September 11th
1:43:56 at the Senior Center not not September
1:43:58 I'm sorry why do I keep doing it
1:44:01 Saturday January 11th starting at 9:00
1:44:06 a.m. at the Senior Center the tour is
1:44:08 from 9:00 to 10:00
1:44:10 and then we wind up back at the Senior
1:44:12 Center where we will also have a
1:44:13 workshop from 10:00 until noon even
1:44:18 though this is a special meeting Kristen
1:44:20 this is not one where attendance is
1:44:22 taken good question
1:44:27 you do have a clerk in the room it is
1:44:31 posted as a special meeting so that you
1:44:34 can attend this forum this event because
1:44:38 if you otherwise you would have to limit
1:44:39 your attendance to less than a quorum
1:44:42 and we want you to be able to go and
1:44:44 participate to the fullest extent
1:44:46 possible you will not be making any
1:44:49 board decisions that are Commission
1:44:50 decisions that evening or that morning
1:44:53 because but it is a future agenda item
1:44:57 of yours so we want to encourage your
1:45:00 attendance so that you're more informed
1:45:02 for when this item becomes in front of
1:45:05 you as joint meeting did you have a
1:45:07 second part of that question
1:45:08 Oh attendance yes this is a special
1:45:11 meeting you will need minutes but it's
1:45:13 it's more of who attended when did it
1:45:16 start and what it attend and you could
1:45:19 actually just take the agenda as is and
1:45:22 create your minutes from that it doesn't
1:45:24 need to have any and they wouldn't
1:45:26 debate dialogue as part of it but
1:45:27 they're not excused or not excused
1:45:31 now I'm unexcused absences I was looking
1:45:35 for the a-word absences or are they
1:45:37 because it's a Saturday well after
1:45:39 informing you then you could list it as
1:45:41 excuse excuse okay okay you know
1:45:46 required okay so you could have some
1:45:51 leeway as just say those that aren't
1:45:53 attendants are all excused okay sorry
1:45:56 it's not required well it's not a it's
1:46:00 not a it's not a commission it's a
1:46:04 community meeting that we would like you
1:46:07 to be able to attend right but under
1:46:09 state law we have to issue it as an
1:46:11 agenda and have a special meeting notice
1:46:14 if if you were there in an unofficial
1:46:18 unofficial capacity but we notice it so
1:46:22 you can attend
1:46:23 and because it's a special meeting you
1:46:26 do need minutes to indicate that it
1:46:30 occurred and make an observation
1:46:32 personally I I was going to attend it
1:46:36 because I saw it in the newsletter
1:46:38 newsletter that I don't one did the
1:46:41 special meeting notice come out
1:46:43 yesterday yeah it was yesterday
1:46:45 like well you'll have 24 hours to notice
1:46:48 it but this community forum has been
1:46:53 advertised for some time now and all the
1:46:56 neighbors received notices this is a
1:46:58 courtesy to well to ensure that the full
1:47:02 board can attend if they want otherwise
1:47:04 you would have had to say only three of
1:47:05 you could have could have attended and
1:47:09 then reported back to the group Oh
1:47:13 so I if I just show that okay I'm so now
1:47:16 it's noticed then you you can and you
1:47:18 don't have to worry about a quorum issue
1:47:21 because you have it's been a notice
1:47:23 there's a courtesy thank you alright
1:47:27 you're welcome anything good for the
1:47:35 order I would like to encourage you to
1:47:39 look at the new city website they did a
1:47:44 really good job in in doing it so I
1:47:47 wanted to I meant to tell the mayor when
1:47:52 she was here that I think it's a really
1:47:54 good looks really good professional good
1:47:59 I listened to that guy presented at the
1:48:01 at the council meeting and I I went back
1:48:04 and I looked at it it was really good so
1:48:07 anyway with that I'm gonna call the
1:48:09 meeting since there's nobody here to
1:48:12 public comment have a comment
1:48:15 gotta be at 8:20

Attendance

Council / Members (9)
Administration/Staff: Joan Probala
Trish Heinonen
Policy Planning Mgr. Ron Faul
Tina Eggers
City Clerk Janice Carle Tisha Gieser
Deputy City Clerk Randy Harrison Mary Lou Pauly
Senior Planner Bill Rinehart Jason Voiss Robin Beukers
Alt. (Non-voting) Commissioners Not Present: Tom Haskins
Alt. (Excused)