Development Commission · Wednesday, June 16, 2021 · City Council Digest

1. CALL TO ORDER

Commission Membership

packet pp.3

Open packet at p.3 ↗

Staff report:

DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION Staff Liaison Lucy Sloman, Land About Development Manager Created in 1983, this commission reviews all Email Lucy Sloman land use actions requiring a Level 3 review. The Commission further serves as an advisory Regular Members board to the City Council on land use actions 2022 – Michael Brennan requiring council approval (Level 5 review). 2022 – Richard Sanford 2022 – Richard Sowa The appearance of fairness doctrine prohibits 2023 – Patty Dillon Development Commission members and City 2023 – Brooke Shore Council members from discussing the merit of 2024 – Kevin Price specific land use development applications 2024 – Arthur Schulte outside of the formal public meeting process. Citizens, however, may discuss any issue with Alternate Members the City's Development Services

2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES

Minutes of November 18, 2020

packet pp.5–8

Open packet at p.5 ↗

Staff report:

APPROVAL OF MINUTES a) 11-18-20 Development Commission Minutes Page [0000]

Minutes of May 19, 2021

packet pp.9–13

Open packet at p.9 ↗

Staff report:

APPROVAL OF MINUTES b) 05-19-21 Development Commission Special Page [0000] Meeting Minutes

3. AGENDA ITEMS

Open Government Training Act and Other Essential Training, (I)

Tina Eggers, City Clerk Jim Haney, City Attorney · packet pp.15–58

▶ Watch from 1:21:31 Open packet at p.15 ↗

Staff report:

Commission Training JUNE 16, 2021 | DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION TINA EGGERS, CITY CLERK

Resources, Codes, and Permit Types

Lucy Sloman, Land Development Manager

Topics: Land Use

▶ Watch from 1:26:31

4. REPORTS

Updates

5. OTHER BUSINESS / ANNOUNCEMENTS

The next meeting is scheduled for July 7

packet pp.59

▶ Watch from 28:26 Open packet at p.59 ↗

Staff report:

OTHER BUSINESS / ANNOUNCEMENTS a) 2021 Development Commission Schedule (tentative) (updated 6/9/2021)

3075 segments .txt ↗

0:20 ↗ so

0:20 ↗ um are we ready to ready to go lucy then

0:24 ↗ i need to uh give a 10 second warning

0:27 ↗ but i just wanted to make sure you all

0:29 ↗ were ready

0:29 ↗ before i um

0:33 ↗ is everybody ready do we have everybody

0:35 ↗ on board looks like it

0:37 ↗ excellent okay 10 second warning

0:42 ↗ and then um if we could start i will go

0:45 ↗ through

0:46 ↗ um and just have each person um

0:49 ↗ identify that they are here um

0:52 ↗ once we've started okay

0:58 ↗ i'm not sure if i get anything more give

1:01 ↗ me the nod when we're ready

1:05 ↗ i i can't see anything that says so i'm

1:07 ↗ going to assume that we're all set

1:09 ↗ okay all right then good evening

1:11 ↗ everybody and welcome to

1:12 ↗ our june 16th development commission

1:15 ↗ meeting

1:16 ↗ um before we get started we will do a

1:18 ↗ roll call on

1:19 ↗ who is here with us this evening so lucy

1:22 ↗ i'll let you go through the list so um

1:25 ↗ as i read your name just indicate your

1:27 ↗ presence please

1:29 ↗ michael brennan i'm here richard sanford

1:33 ↗ here richard sowa i'm present

1:38 ↗ patti dillon here

1:41 ↗ brook shore here

1:44 ↗ kevin price here

1:47 ↗ arthur schulte here johnny cadet

1:52 ↗ here mel melvin morgan

1:55 ↗ here thank you

1:59 ↗ great thank you so uh the major topic on

2:01 ↗ the agenda tonight

2:02 ↗ is training for the commission on kind

2:05 ↗ of the legal framework that we operate

2:07 ↗ in

2:08 ↗ um but before we get to that we have a

2:09 ↗ couple of uh

2:11 ↗ administrative things to cover meeting

2:12 ↗ minutes uh the first from our november

2:15 ↗ 18th

2:16 ↗ 2020 they were included with the agenda

2:18 ↗ materials

2:20 ↗ does anybody have any amendments uh to

2:23 ↗ the meeting minutes from the november

2:24 ↗ 18th meeting

2:29 ↗ no seeing none then we will

2:33 ↗ adopt those by consensus

2:36 ↗ the second is our

2:39 ↗ may 19th 2021 our last meeting

2:42 ↗ those minutes also included with the

2:44 ↗ agenda materials

2:46 ↗ any uh changes or edits to those meeting

2:49 ↗ minutes

2:52 ↗ no seeing none those minutes are also

2:56 ↗ adopted by consensus so

2:58 ↗ that takes care of our administrative

3:00 ↗ responsibilities i think we'll hand it

3:01 ↗ over to

3:03 ↗ lucy sloman i think you take a lead on

3:06 ↗ the training for this evening

3:09 ↗ thank you chairperson um tonight we are

3:12 ↗ doing a training

3:13 ↗ on uh open meetings act uh public

3:18 ↗ records requests quasi-judicial permits

3:20 ↗ and some of the permits that the

3:22 ↗ commission reviews

3:24 ↗ to lead the meeting this portion of the

3:28 ↗ meeting

3:29 ↗ i'm handing it over to

3:32 ↗ almost chico staff athena airs

3:36 ↗ thank you give me a moment to share

3:40 ↗ my green here and get

3:43 ↗ ready i will be in a limited view so

3:46 ↗ i'll rely on

3:47 ↗ a chair and your staff liaison to

3:50 ↗ help pause if that's appropriate

3:53 ↗ throughout the meeting

3:57 ↗ and it looks to be functioning as i had

3:59 ↗ hoped

4:01 ↗ thank you good evening chair and

4:03 ↗ commissioners

4:04 ↗ um i'm tina akers i'm your current city

4:07 ↗ clerk

4:08 ↗ and first i really want to thank you for

4:10 ↗ your valuable service to the community

4:13 ↗ i know that isaqua is a great place to

4:15 ↗ live and work and

4:17 ↗ i've been in local government for 25

4:20 ↗ plus

4:21 ↗ years with 17 of those here in issaquah

4:24 ↗ it's a pleasure to be here it's a

4:26 ↗ pleasure to provide

4:28 ↗ this training and know that you have

4:30 ↗ resources that hand

4:32 ↗ through the clerk's office and through

4:34 ↗ the city attorney

4:36 ↗ outside of this meeting for if

4:37 ↗ additional training is warranted

4:39 ↗ or if you have further questions joining

4:41 ↗ me this evening

4:43 ↗ is our city attorney mr haney and i'll

4:45 ↗ give him the opportunity now to say

4:47 ↗ hello

4:48 ↗ and introduce himself thank you tina

4:52 ↗ i'm jim haney i am the city attorney for

4:54 ↗ the city of issaquah

4:57 ↗ as tina said she's got 25 years of

4:59 ↗ experience

5:01 ↗ as a municipal clerk i've been acting as

5:03 ↗ a city attorney for 40 years

5:05 ↗ so i've been around a little while i

5:08 ↗ have a little bit of experience

5:10 ↗ and hopefully can help you uh this

5:12 ↗ evening with some training

5:14 ↗ so as tina said i appreciate your

5:16 ↗ service to the city

5:18 ↗ i know it's not easy sacrificing all of

5:21 ↗ the evenings that you sacrifice

5:23 ↗ all of the weekends that you take to

5:25 ↗ read packets and so forth

5:27 ↗ and i always marvel at your willingness

5:29 ↗ to do that

5:31 ↗ as volunteers and so just really

5:34 ↗ appreciate that

5:35 ↗ and happy to be sharing another training

5:38 ↗ with tina this evening

5:43 ↗ so um here's a list of some of the

5:46 ↗ things that we'll cover

5:48 ↗ i won't list them all off but hopefully

5:51 ↗ we'll hit the mark

5:52 ↗ on on these items

5:55 ↗ so the first part of this presentation

5:57 ↗ covers uh some important state laws

5:59 ↗ relevant to your service as commissioner

6:01 ↗ and then the second half will cover

6:03 ↗ specific processes

6:05 ↗ of your commission so let's start with

6:07 ↗ the sun

6:08 ↗ excuse me the sunshine laws often

6:11 ↗ referred to as the open government

6:13 ↗ trainings

6:14 ↗ act this is relevant to the service

6:17 ↗ that you do as a commissioner this

6:19 ↗ training is mandated by state law

6:21 ↗ and consists of three elements it's the

6:24 ↗ open public meetings act

6:25 ↗ public records and records management

6:31 ↗ why is this mandated well the intent of

6:33 ↗ the training is to increase your

6:34 ↗ knowledge of the laws

6:36 ↗ and responsibilities of jurisdictions

6:39 ↗ and those who perform the various duties

6:41 ↗ whether it be staff counsel or appointed

6:44 ↗ officials

6:45 ↗ as like yourself the state auditor's

6:48 ↗ office is looking to reduce findings

6:50 ↗ and decrease violations and the cities

6:52 ↗ are looking to reduce risk

6:54 ↗ the auditor's office often found

6:57 ↗ or when they do find that violations are

7:00 ↗ made that they're not malicious

7:01 ↗ or intentional the violations simply

7:04 ↗ resulted in

7:04 ↗ insufficient training or knowledge so

7:07 ↗ this act is intended to foster

7:09 ↗ open government education and reduce

7:11 ↗ liability

7:15 ↗ so opma most of you are familiar with

7:17 ↗ this phrase

7:18 ↗ is the open public meeting to act it

7:20 ↗ means that meetings are open from start

7:22 ↗ to finish

7:23 ↗ oftentimes referred to as gavel the

7:24 ↗ gavel the idea

7:26 ↗ being that the public has the right to

7:28 ↗ attend and observe the decision-making

7:30 ↗ process

7:31 ↗ for in-person meetings this means having

7:33 ↗ an accessible

7:35 ↗ meeting space that is open to the public

7:37 ↗ however at this time meetings are

7:39 ↗ held virtually and that means that we

7:41 ↗ are publishing

7:42 ↗ call-in information and providing proper

7:46 ↗ notice

7:46 ↗ for that attendance your meetings

7:50 ↗ are also recorded and live streamed on

7:52 ↗ the youtube channel

7:54 ↗ and channel 21.

7:58 ↗ for all meetings events notice who the

8:01 ↗ public is required

8:02 ↗ there are some exceptions where the

8:04 ↗ meeting may be closed to the public but

8:06 ↗ those are very rare

8:07 ↗ and i do have one slide on it um that we

8:10 ↗ can talk about a bit later

8:13 ↗ we want to ensure that you are operating

8:15 ↗ within the opma

8:17 ↗ and again within the spirit of being

8:19 ↗ open and transparent

8:24 ↗ you have two types of meetings uh it's

8:26 ↗ either going to be a regular meeting or

8:28 ↗ a special meeting

8:29 ↗ and your meetings fall uh to my

8:32 ↗ knowledge on the second or fourth

8:33 ↗ thursday

8:34 ↗ excuse me wednesday first and third

8:36 ↗ wednesday at seven p.m

8:38 ↗ um traditionally in the council chambers

8:41 ↗ although we are in the virtual world

8:44 ↗ if the governor's orders change then we

8:46 ↗ will ensure that we are

8:48 ↗ meeting state law and providing whatever

8:51 ↗ proper notice and a situation that we

8:54 ↗ that we need to adhere to

8:58 ↗ special meetings or those meetings that

9:00 ↗ fall outside of your regular meeting

9:01 ↗ schedule so whether it's the date

9:03 ↗ time or location it can be

9:06 ↗ any of those factors and that is when we

9:09 ↗ refer to it as a special meeting

9:13 ↗ special meetings may also include other

9:16 ↗ types of meetings

9:17 ↗ community conference work sessions

9:19 ↗ workshops retreats

9:21 ↗ regardless of the format all these

9:24 ↗ meetings must

9:25 ↗ include an agenda must have minutes

9:29 ↗ they must be posted and distributed in

9:31 ↗ advance

9:32 ↗ state law says that we have at least 24

9:34 ↗ hours before the meeting to do that

9:36 ↗ but of course we want to ensure that you

9:39 ↗ are well versed on what's in the packet

9:42 ↗ and we and we certainly want the public

9:43 ↗ to be aware

9:45 ↗ so we strive for five days or more uh

9:48 ↗ to ensure that you have that those

9:50 ↗ materials

9:52 ↗ state law does not require public

9:55 ↗ comment as part of

9:56 ↗ um meetings but we value it

9:59 ↗ and we do include it as part of the

10:01 ↗ agenda later on the agenda we will talk

10:04 ↗ about the more formal elements

10:06 ↗ where public hearings are required

10:13 ↗ so with opma and meetings uh i did

10:16 ↗ mention

10:17 ↗ a sort of closed session those are

10:19 ↗ referred to executive sessions

10:22 ↗ and uh they're very few um

10:26 ↗ council boards or commissions may only

10:28 ↗ use

10:29 ↗ this closed portion of the meeting for

10:31 ↗ things that are identified in state law

10:33 ↗ and it's for discussion only no action

10:36 ↗ can take place

10:37 ↗ meaning you can't decide and you can't

10:41 ↗ certainly not take final action on

10:42 ↗ something any

10:43 ↗ anytime that a motion is warranted that

10:46 ↗ would need to occur

10:47 ↗ and properly be noticed in an open

10:48 ↗ meeting

10:50 ↗ so you might see our city council go

10:52 ↗ into an executive session for purposes

10:54 ↗ of talking about property acquisitions

10:56 ↗ or discussing litigation

10:58 ↗ if we were to find that your board

11:00 ↗ warranted such

11:01 ↗ a conversation we would the staff would

11:04 ↗ be working with the

11:05 ↗ city clerk's office and the city

11:06 ↗ attorney to ensure

11:08 ↗ that it was handled properly and that

11:11 ↗ your conversations were limited to

11:13 ↗ the sole purpose of that session

11:19 ↗ so opma

11:23 ↗ because of the size of your board four

11:25 ↗ members constitute a quorum

11:27 ↗ therefore we need to be very careful on

11:30 ↗ when you are gathering together

11:33 ↗ you certainly can travel and gather

11:36 ↗ for a non-board event social gatherings

11:40 ↗ so long as you're not discussing the

11:42 ↗ business of the board

11:45 ↗ state law defines the

11:49 ↗ action as very very broad so whether you

11:53 ↗ are taking public testimony whether

11:55 ↗ you're deliberating

11:56 ↗ discussing considering reviewing

11:59 ↗ evaluation

12:00 ↗ or taking final action all of those

12:02 ↗ things need to be open and transparent

12:05 ↗ and be at a meeting that's been properly

12:07 ↗ noticed

12:09 ↗ um we want you to be mindful of a quorum

12:12 ↗ whether it is done um

12:15 ↗ uh through a series of

12:18 ↗ of emails or in person or a combination

12:22 ↗ of that or

12:23 ↗ over several days

12:27 ↗ you certainly can share information but

12:29 ↗ any moment that you start discussing

12:32 ↗ this is the area that we want to keep

12:34 ↗ you out of we want to ensure that you're

12:36 ↗ saving your discussions for the meetings

12:38 ↗ and we urge you to work with your staff

12:41 ↗ liaison

12:43 ↗ if you are trying to get information

12:46 ↗ to your other commissioners and then

12:48 ↗ i'll just buy

12:50 ↗ and ask our city attorney if he wanted

12:52 ↗ to provide any comments

12:54 ↗ uh in our past conversations you did

12:56 ↗ bring up a really good point about

12:58 ↗ a school district violations

13:03 ↗ in another jurisdiction that that is

13:07 ↗ good for us to be mindful of

13:12 ↗ yes thank you tina um the the example

13:16 ↗ the case that uh

13:20 ↗ gives us the rule regarding email and

13:23 ↗ serial types of meetings

13:25 ↗ is a case that involved the battleground

13:27 ↗ school district

13:28 ↗ and the school board in that particular

13:32 ↗ case

13:34 ↗ was considering the performance of

13:37 ↗ the superintendent the

13:40 ↗ school board members emailed each other

13:43 ↗ over the course of several days

13:46 ↗ discussing that performance so they

13:49 ↗ weren't all together in a room

13:51 ↗ um the emails were not simultaneous they

13:54 ↗ occurred over a period of days

13:58 ↗ but throughout that period of days

14:01 ↗ ultimately there was a quorum of the

14:04 ↗ commissioners

14:05 ↗ who were actually emailing and

14:07 ↗ discussing the issue with each other

14:10 ↗ and according to the court that was a

14:12 ↗ meeting

14:13 ↗ and because it was a meeting it was

14:18 ↗ subject to the open meetings act

14:20 ↗ and you the commissioners or excuse me

14:23 ↗ the

14:24 ↗ board members uh violated the act

14:28 ↗ by not holding that meeting in public

14:31 ↗ and so this is something just to keep in

14:34 ↗ mind as you

14:35 ↗ as you look at this that a meeting has a

14:38 ↗ broader

14:39 ↗ meaning under the open public meetings

14:42 ↗ act

14:42 ↗ than simply what we would traditionally

14:44 ↗ consider a meeting

14:46 ↗ now during the pandemic since we all

14:48 ↗ have these virtual meetings

14:50 ↗ it may be different but we used to

14:51 ↗ always just think well a meeting is when

14:53 ↗ we all sit down together

14:55 ↗ and talk about something and for we

14:57 ↗ would be in the same room

14:59 ↗ but under the battleground school

15:02 ↗ district case

15:03 ↗ no it you don't need to be in the same

15:05 ↗ room you don't need to be having the

15:06 ↗ discussion at the same time

15:08 ↗ as long as there is a discussion and

15:10 ↗ you're trying to

15:12 ↗ reach a decision regarding something

15:14 ↗ that will be a meeting and it needs to

15:16 ↗ be done in public

15:19 ↗ thank you um so be mindful of email

15:23 ↗ yeah we didn't really

15:26 ↗ discuss uh how commissioners can ask

15:29 ↗ questions

15:29 ↗ if they have them during your

15:31 ↗ presentation would you like them

15:33 ↗ to uh put something in the chat and i

15:36 ↗ call your attention to it

15:38 ↗ or hold their question to the end what's

15:41 ↗ your preference

15:44 ↗ i think we can i think there's room for

15:46 ↗ a few questions to be asked

15:48 ↗ and i do want to be mindful of the

15:50 ↗ entire presentation but yes

15:53 ↗ if there's questions that pop up let me

15:55 ↗ know

15:56 ↗ um so while we're waiting to see if

15:58 ↗ there are i'll just reiterate that

16:01 ↗ really be mindful of email and the

16:03 ↗ safest option to forward information is

16:05 ↗ through your staff liaison

16:07 ↗ and if you receive information through

16:10 ↗ the board

16:10 ↗ do not reply all with your perspective

16:15 ↗ that that again would be in violation

16:18 ↗ and

16:19 ↗ the best thing to do is to communicate

16:21 ↗ the business

16:22 ↗ at an open public meeting

16:26 ↗ thank you um there aren't any messages

16:28 ↗ at this time but

16:29 ↗ i would say to commissioners in the

16:30 ↗ lower right hand corner there is the

16:32 ↗ chat button

16:33 ↗ if you click on that um you can then

16:37 ↗ enter make sure it says to everyone

16:40 ↗ or to me and uh

16:44 ↗ just indicate that you have a comment or

16:46 ↗ a question

16:47 ↗ and then you will be given an

16:49 ↗ opportunity

16:50 ↗ to voice that thank you thank you well

16:52 ↗ this slide might do that

16:54 ↗ so this is um the penalty slide

16:58 ↗ so um you know

17:01 ↗ opma laws have been around since you

17:03 ↗ know 1970 or 71

17:05 ↗ and they take this so serious that

17:09 ↗ um if you're knownly violating opma

17:13 ↗ with it comes liability and penalties

17:17 ↗ so i will say that

17:21 ↗ that state law sets these penalties

17:24 ↗ city liability is high as well that

17:27 ↗ would include court costs and attorney

17:28 ↗ fees

17:29 ↗ and ultimately the action that the board

17:32 ↗ would have taken

17:34 ↗ could be considered null and void

17:36 ↗ basically we want to establish a culture

17:38 ↗ of compliance

17:39 ↗ ensure that the opma rules are followed

17:41 ↗ and that best practices and training are

17:43 ↗ conducted like we're doing here and

17:46 ↗ i'm sure our city attorney can echo some

17:49 ↗ of those comments or speak to the

17:51 ↗ individual liability component

17:54 ↗ thank you tina yes the liability

17:58 ↗ there's a couple of consequences of

18:00 ↗ violating the open meetings act

18:02 ↗ uh the first and i'll talk about the one

18:04 ↗ that's at the bottom of the screen which

18:06 ↗ is that whatever action you take

18:08 ↗ when you're not complying with the open

18:11 ↗ meetings act

18:12 ↗ is null and void so when the development

18:15 ↗ commission makes a decision

18:16 ↗ on a permit for example and

18:21 ↗ if you did made that decision outside of

18:23 ↗ the public meeting or you had that

18:25 ↗ discussion

18:26 ↗ outside of the public meeting the action

18:29 ↗ that you would

18:29 ↗ ultimately take would be the action

18:32 ↗ would be null and void

18:33 ↗ that you took in violation of the open

18:35 ↗ meetings act and you'd have to come back

18:37 ↗ and do it over again

18:38 ↗ in an open public meeting so that's one

18:42 ↗ reason not to violate the act

18:44 ↗ the second thing that as tina pointed

18:47 ↗ out

18:48 ↗ there is individual liability and the

18:51 ↗ opma

18:52 ↗ is very specific that the

18:55 ↗ liability is that of the individual

18:59 ↗ board member or council member who is

19:01 ↗ violating the opma

19:03 ↗ it is not this is not the city's

19:06 ↗ liability and the city can't pay these

19:08 ↗ fines for you

19:09 ↗ or these penalties for you if in fact

19:11 ↗ you violate

19:13 ↗ and the penalties are five hundred

19:14 ↗ dollars for the first violation

19:17 ↗ and one thousand dollars for any

19:20 ↗ subsequent violations

19:22 ↗ so it's important for your personal

19:26 ↗ finances not to violate the opma

19:29 ↗ and lastly as tina pointed out

19:32 ↗ the city can be sued for violations of

19:35 ↗ the opma

19:37 ↗ and if the if an individual

19:40 ↗ proves that in fact a violation occurred

19:44 ↗ not only will the court declare the

19:46 ↗ action null and void

19:47 ↗ but it will award the

19:51 ↗ petitioner's costs and attorney's fees

19:53 ↗ so the city ends up

19:54 ↗ paying for any costs and attorneys fees

19:58 ↗ that are incurred by

19:59 ↗ the individual who sues the city so all

20:02 ↗ good reasons not to violate the opma

20:06 ↗ i'll turn it back over to tina thank you

20:14 ↗ another part of the mandated training is

20:18 ↗ public

20:18 ↗ is the public records act and um

20:24 ↗ under this this is housed in the revised

20:26 ↗ code of washington

20:27 ↗ we also have it adopted under our own

20:30 ↗ isquad municipal code

20:31 ↗ it states that as your city clerk i'm

20:33 ↗ your designated public records officer

20:36 ↗ um basically the public

20:40 ↗ has a right to access public records

20:43 ↗ and they have a right to receive those

20:46 ↗ within a reasonable time

20:48 ↗ you should know that our email system is

20:51 ↗ set up at this time

20:53 ↗ to capture all incoming and outgoing

20:55 ↗ messages

20:56 ↗ so your staff liaison

20:59 ↗ would be the first person i would go to

21:01 ↗ if i had a

21:02 ↗ records request that was related to the

21:05 ↗ work that was in front of

21:06 ↗ this commission and then depending on

21:09 ↗ how the records request was drafted

21:12 ↗ we might need to work with you

21:15 ↗ and walk you through

21:18 ↗ search parameters and how to secure

21:21 ↗ those records

21:22 ↗ and and deliver them over to the city so

21:26 ↗ what i can tell you is let me check my

21:28 ↗ notes here

21:36 ↗ so yes you have a legal obligation

21:39 ↗ to search for records if we've been

21:41 ↗ asked

21:43 ↗ you have an obligation to hold those

21:45 ↗ records and not purge them

21:47 ↗ and you have an obligation to work with

21:49 ↗ me to turn them over

21:51 ↗ and and this is really important most

21:54 ↗ likely we would hand you

21:56 ↗ an affidavit or ask you for an email

21:59 ↗ that

22:00 ↗ you would reply to and say i've

22:03 ↗ conducted

22:04 ↗ the search that you asked for i've

22:06 ↗ determined

22:07 ↗ whether i do or don't have records and

22:09 ↗ then

22:10 ↗ that piece of information i would keep

22:12 ↗ on file

22:14 ↗ or work with you to transfer the

22:15 ↗ information

22:19 ↗ it's really important that the city is

22:22 ↗ deciding which records are disposable

22:24 ↗ and not individuals this is important

22:27 ↗ because

22:29 ↗ if we were going to exclude something

22:32 ↗ there are very few exemptions

22:33 ↗ and then the state requires us to

22:36 ↗ either redact the information or produce

22:39 ↗ a

22:41 ↗ a redaction log or exemption log so we

22:44 ↗ want to make sure that all those steps

22:46 ↗ are handled properly

22:49 ↗ so it doesn't occur very often but when

22:52 ↗ we do

22:53 ↗ here's some tips that might help you

22:56 ↗ being organized as one of them

22:57 ↗ as as your appointed position you might

23:02 ↗ prefer and we urge you to stick to one

23:05 ↗ email account

23:06 ↗ as you are doing this business of the

23:08 ↗ commission

23:10 ↗ i'll keep track of your records and if

23:11 ↗ you take notes which you

23:13 ↗ which you can um we suggest that you

23:16 ↗ delete them when they're no longer

23:18 ↗ needed to you personally

23:19 ↗ however if you have them at the time

23:22 ↗ that a records request has been

23:25 ↗ initiated and we have informed you

23:28 ↗ not to of that request

23:32 ↗ you can no longer dispose of it because

23:36 ↗ we would be having an active request we

23:39 ↗ do not want you using text messaging

23:42 ↗ it's a tool that while convenient is not

23:45 ↗ conducive to

23:49 ↗ hard to locate it's hard to transfer

23:52 ↗ and we want to ensure that that the work

23:55 ↗ that you're doing

23:56 ↗ um is funneled through lucy to the best

24:00 ↗ of our ability

24:04 ↗ tina if i can just uh comment um for a

24:07 ↗ moment

24:08 ↗ um just two comments one is

24:12 ↗ i i would really stress that you need to

24:15 ↗ be careful about

24:16 ↗ using a dedicated account for your city

24:20 ↗ correspondence whether you have a city

24:23 ↗ email address

24:24 ↗ or you set up a separate email address

24:28 ↗ for your city business it's really

24:31 ↗ imperative that you do that

24:32 ↗ and not mix it with your personal

24:35 ↗ business it just makes it so much easier

24:38 ↗ for you to do the search

24:40 ↗ in the if we need to uh have you do a

24:42 ↗ search of your email

24:44 ↗ and it avoids us uh having to defend

24:47 ↗ something saying that

24:49 ↗ you were using your personal email for

24:51 ↗ city business

24:52 ↗ so now uh the other side gets to ask for

24:55 ↗ your personal email as well

24:56 ↗ and have your personal email inspected

24:59 ↗ so i can't stress that enough

25:01 ↗ please please do that second is

25:04 ↗ you've probably seen in the news over

25:06 ↗ the last

25:08 ↗ several days about text messages

25:11 ↗ because mayor durkin

25:14 ↗ in seattle and some of the seattle

25:17 ↗ police staff

25:19 ↗ apparently mayor durkin's email or

25:22 ↗ excuse me

25:22 ↗ tel phone that she used to make text

25:26 ↗ was set to delete messages

25:29 ↗ every so often and they were not backed

25:31 ↗ up on a city system

25:33 ↗ and the city is now going to be sued uh

25:36 ↗ for

25:36 ↗ violation of the public records act uh

25:39 ↗ those records

25:40 ↗ were requested they're not available

25:43 ↗ they were deleted

25:45 ↗ and there is going to to be that so

25:48 ↗ that's one reason why we we strongly

25:51 ↗ suggest you not use text messages

25:53 ↗ because

25:54 ↗ it is very hard to retrieve them

25:57 ↗ um so we prefer email and things like

26:00 ↗ that where we can actually

26:02 ↗ obtain the records if we need to and you

26:04 ↗ need to be careful

26:06 ↗ that those records are preserved and not

26:08 ↗ deleted

26:09 ↗ uh unless the city clerk tells you

26:13 ↗ through a records retention schedule

26:15 ↗ that you can actually delete those

26:17 ↗ there's actually a the state specifies

26:21 ↗ uh how long you have to keep certain

26:23 ↗ records so

26:25 ↗ the city clerk can advise you um

26:29 ↗ how long and whether it's safe to delete

26:31 ↗ something

26:35 ↗ back to you tina thank you thank you

26:40 ↗ and then uh the city does have a code of

26:42 ↗ ethics

26:43 ↗ and uh it's located it

26:47 ↗ isakuawa.gov ethics

26:52 ↗ it addresses things like conflicts of

26:54 ↗ interest gifts and gratuities

26:56 ↗ political activity it also reiterates

26:59 ↗ the importance of

27:00 ↗ the open public meetings and your

27:03 ↗ obligation regarding public records

27:06 ↗ uh if you have i imagine most of you

27:08 ↗ have one on file

27:11 ↗ it stays on file for the duration of

27:13 ↗ your term

27:14 ↗ and if you have new members that

27:18 ↗ this sounds like a a

27:21 ↗ new form that they haven't seen yet

27:25 ↗ please look at that and please get that

27:27 ↗ on file if you have questions about the

27:29 ↗ policy

27:30 ↗ or the examples that are provided please

27:32 ↗ let us know

27:34 ↗ and i'll ask jim if there's anything you

27:37 ↗ wanted to reiterate

27:38 ↗ i know that this is a state law

27:44 ↗ references to conflicts of interest

27:46 ↗ gifts and gratuities and political

27:48 ↗ activity

27:50 ↗ yes the city's ethics code is based

27:54 ↗ on state law but it does go a little bit

27:56 ↗ further than state law

27:58 ↗ and i think the things to keep in mind

28:01 ↗ are

28:02 ↗ in terms of conflict of interest there

28:04 ↗ are things that are pretty common sense

28:06 ↗ like

28:06 ↗ you can't use city equipment or

28:09 ↗ facilities for your personal use

28:11 ↗ you you can't um uh

28:16 ↗ disclose confidential information that

28:18 ↗ you gain

28:19 ↗ as part of your uh uh

28:22 ↗ duties you can't hold a posit

28:26 ↗ a position uh in any other business that

28:29 ↗ conflicts with your

28:30 ↗ ability to perform your duties as a

28:33 ↗ development

28:34 ↗ uh commission member and i would think

28:37 ↗ that

28:37 ↗ in those circumstances the one where you

28:40 ↗ might encounter that

28:41 ↗ is if you were a local developer for

28:43 ↗ example and

28:44 ↗ had a significant number of permits in

28:47 ↗ front of the

28:48 ↗ development commission during the course

28:51 ↗ of a year

28:52 ↗ the likelihood is that you'd be stepping

28:54 ↗ down from your position

28:56 ↗ on the development commission all the

28:58 ↗ time and that would con

29:00 ↗ so that seems to conflict with your

29:01 ↗ duties um

29:03 ↗ as far as political activity the one

29:05 ↗ question that

29:06 ↗ that i sometimes get asked is you know

29:09 ↗ sometimes

29:11 ↗ and commission members may be running

29:13 ↗ for another office

29:16 ↗ and you know you might want to run for a

29:19 ↗ council opening

29:20 ↗ you might want to run for state

29:22 ↗ representatives something like that

29:24 ↗ the only thing to represent to remember

29:25 ↗ is that you cannot use city facilities

29:28 ↗ in any way

29:29 ↗ to uh facilitate your campaign

29:32 ↗ and that includes wearing campaign

29:35 ↗ buttons on the dais

29:36 ↗ while you're or having campaign

29:39 ↗ materials

29:40 ↗ on the dais when you are acting as a

29:44 ↗ development commissioner

29:45 ↗ i have had situations before where

29:47 ↗ council members have wanted to

29:49 ↗ not in issaquah but in some of my other

29:51 ↗ clients who

29:53 ↗ have wanted to wear their campaign

29:54 ↗ buttons

29:57 ↗ as they get tv time and

30:01 ↗ the answer is no you can't do that that

30:03 ↗ would be campaigning and using the

30:04 ↗ city's

30:05 ↗ facilities so i think the rest is pretty

30:09 ↗ straightforward gifts and gratuities

30:11 ↗ is very straightforward you just can't

30:14 ↗ accept

30:16 ↗ gifts that are given to you because of

30:18 ↗ your status as a development commission

30:20 ↗ member if

30:22 ↗ a gift is given to the city um

30:26 ↗ someone brings in a a box of of

30:29 ↗ chocolates or something like that and

30:30 ↗ wants to

30:32 ↗ wants to give it you can certainly

30:36 ↗ put it out for people to uh to take if

30:39 ↗ gifts are given to you say as part of a

30:40 ↗ sister cities trip

30:42 ↗ that you might be on or something like

30:43 ↗ that you can accept those but those are

30:46 ↗ the cities not yours

30:48 ↗ um and there are some times when you

30:51 ↗ can accept a discount

30:55 ↗ that is provided but it can't be a

30:57 ↗ discount that is provided only

31:00 ↗ because you are a city official

31:03 ↗ and so recently i was asked a question

31:06 ↗ there is uh

31:07 ↗ one of my clients has a contract

31:11 ↗ with microsoft that

31:15 ↗ provides that all employees get a

31:19 ↗ discount

31:20 ↗ on microsoft products but

31:24 ↗ while that does benefit the city

31:27 ↗ employees

31:28 ↗ it's also provided to every other large

31:31 ↗ employer who purchases a certain number

31:35 ↗ of licenses from microsoft so it was not

31:38 ↗ it's not a benefit that accrues because

31:40 ↗ they're city employees

31:41 ↗ it's a benefit that accrues because

31:43 ↗ their employer is a large public

31:46 ↗ employer so that is uh

31:49 ↗ that's an example of one thing that that

31:51 ↗ can be done so

31:52 ↗ that's all i have to say tina back to

31:54 ↗ you thank

31:59 ↗ so i'm you going to move forward to the

32:01 ↗ our next section which is the role of

32:03 ↗ members and so i'm going to cover

32:07 ↗ um these four things on the slide

32:09 ↗ attendance rule of alternates

32:10 ↗ meeting materials and then just ensuring

32:13 ↗ that you're abiding by your

32:15 ↗ code of ethics

32:20 ↗ so attendance is important you know we

32:23 ↗ need a quorum to have these meetings

32:26 ↗ when we schedule a plan it's really

32:28 ↗ important um

32:29 ↗ there's costs associated with scheduling

32:31 ↗ these meetings

32:32 ↗ with staff with noticing a meeting

32:36 ↗ and our public hearing so it's really

32:38 ↗ important that

32:40 ↗ the meetings that we're planning for

32:42 ↗ that we know that we'll have a quorum

32:43 ↗ who can

32:44 ↗ do do the work and do the business of

32:46 ↗ the commission

32:47 ↗ so it is helpful and it is important

32:50 ↗ that you

32:50 ↗ let your staff liaison know when those

32:53 ↗ absences

32:55 ↗ are occurring and we like to have an

32:58 ↗ advanced notice when possible we know

33:01 ↗ that's not always the case

33:03 ↗ but failure to notify the city of your

33:07 ↗ absence

33:08 ↗ will be noted as an unexcused and that's

33:10 ↗ important

33:11 ↗ because if you have consecutive

33:14 ↗ unexcused absences that does jeopardize

33:16 ↗ your place on the commission and

33:19 ↗ um and oh you know ultimately if it just

33:23 ↗ came down to

33:24 ↗ your ability to have time to serve on

33:26 ↗ the board

33:27 ↗ most likely you would be talking with us

33:29 ↗ anyway about

33:34 ↗ possibly your need to be stepping down

33:35 ↗ or resigning so we just want to make

33:37 ↗ sure that we're well planned

33:39 ↗ and that we're using our time well

33:46 ↗ i wanted to talk about the role of

33:48 ↗ alternates

33:50 ↗ really important that we fill

33:54 ↗ the board to its fullest extent possible

33:57 ↗ meaning alternates serve in the absence

34:02 ↗ of a regular member

34:04 ↗ we are working to reach the quorum of

34:06 ↗ the commission and we want to fill

34:08 ↗ all the voting fees so it's not just to

34:11 ↗ reach the minimum

34:13 ↗ um and there's ways to determine uh

34:16 ↗ which alternates uh can can serve in

34:19 ↗ that regular seat

34:21 ↗ uh it could be first to arrive it could

34:23 ↗ be

34:24 ↗ figured out in advance um it

34:27 ↗ it so long as you're providing an

34:30 ↗ opportunity

34:31 ↗ for that to be shared over time

34:34 ↗ um so again i just really want to

34:36 ↗ reiterate that we're looking for the

34:38 ↗ fullest extent possible

34:40 ↗ so it's very possible that um all your

34:43 ↗ alternates

34:44 ↗ are serving in a voting role at a

34:45 ↗ regular meeting if those seats are open

34:51 ↗ meeting agendas they're provided by

34:53 ↗ email they're posted online

34:56 ↗ we strive to get those to you well in

34:58 ↗ advance

35:00 ↗ that's so that you can come prepared um

35:03 ↗ so we imagine that you're setting time

35:06 ↗ aside you're reading the materials

35:09 ↗ you know what's on the agenda and what's

35:10 ↗ in the packet

35:12 ↗ and that you are talking with your staff

35:14 ↗ liaison in advance

35:16 ↗ um when needed now you'll have some

35:19 ↗ indicators on your agenda to indicate

35:21 ↗ um sort of the status what staff is

35:25 ↗ looking for from you

35:27 ↗ so if something has the icon or the

35:29 ↗ symbol of

35:30 ↗ i it's informational discussion items

35:35 ↗ and then if if they are seeking action

35:38 ↗ you'll see the big a there obviously

35:41 ↗ you're going to have discussion

35:42 ↗ as part of action and clearly you can

35:44 ↗ also have discussion as part of

35:46 ↗ information

35:47 ↗ we're not trying to provide

35:51 ↗ every symbol possible on there but it

35:53 ↗ really will help guide you

35:55 ↗ if action is warranted

36:00 ↗ oh this is just this tina can i jump in

36:03 ↗ i'm sorry

36:04 ↗ a couple slides ago this is mel morgan

36:07 ↗ um a couple slides ago on the alternates

36:11 ↗ it said participate in discussion but

36:14 ↗ not in debate

36:15 ↗ how do you how do you distinguish

36:18 ↗ between discussion

36:19 ↗ and debate if there's a motion on the

36:21 ↗ floor that would be

36:23 ↗ debate okay so anything

36:26 ↗ after a motion's been made right because

36:29 ↗ alternates if they're not serving in a

36:31 ↗ voting seat

36:32 ↗ cannot make a motion can't vote on it

36:35 ↗ so they shouldn't be party to the debate

36:37 ↗ of it

36:39 ↗ and i would say that's the the clearest

36:41 ↗ element there we are doing

36:42 ↗ uh some chair training on the 22nd and

36:46 ↗ uh we'll that's one of the items that

36:48 ↗ we'll be covering

36:49 ↗ that that can be helpful

36:53 ↗ thank you sure

36:56 ↗ and then uh this is not necessarily your

36:59 ↗ well it is it does look like a

37:01 ↗ screenshot of a past agenda

37:05 ↗ and again this is uh

37:09 ↗ i think from you from an april meeting

37:11 ↗ and it just

37:12 ↗ reiterates that you have the packet

37:15 ↗ available in many forms uh you can view

37:18 ↗ it as a pdf

37:19 ↗ you can view it as a split screen

37:22 ↗ and we hope that offering it in several

37:25 ↗ formats

37:25 ↗ is of use to you

37:30 ↗ beating procedures i'll just

37:33 ↗ talk through some of these um gently

37:36 ↗ this isn't meant to be your parliament

37:39 ↗ parliamentary training

37:42 ↗ um but when a motion is made the first

37:45 ↗ one is considered your main motion it's

37:47 ↗ your motion that is

37:49 ↗ your proposal to do something it must be

37:52 ↗ seconded

37:53 ↗ if it's not seconded it's not a motion

37:56 ↗ and

37:56 ↗ meeting moves on until another motion is

38:00 ↗ made

38:00 ↗ and has been seconded it is useful to

38:03 ↗ have motions in writing

38:05 ↗ and in our virtual world um

38:09 ↗ there are a few times when the clerks

38:11 ↗ will say

38:12 ↗ yes it's okay to use chat um you know

38:15 ↗ you're using chat to sort of raise your

38:16 ↗ hand

38:17 ↗ you're not putting in content of

38:20 ↗ how you feel about a topic or what your

38:22 ↗ question is you're just saying

38:23 ↗ question comment and in this case if

38:26 ↗ somebody had

38:27 ↗ the motion in writing

38:31 ↗ they could place it in the chat just so

38:33 ↗ that it could be

38:34 ↗ reread or understood by everyone you

38:37 ↗ could also share your screen

38:39 ↗ in a way to where the motion could be on

38:41 ↗ the virtual board so to speak

38:45 ↗ um really what we want is the motion to

38:48 ↗ be clear and everyone to understand

38:50 ↗ what what it is and there's an example

38:53 ↗ of one

38:55 ↗ move on once an item has been

39:00 ↗ seconded that is the opportunity to

39:04 ↗ debate and discuss that particular

39:07 ↗ motion that's on the floor

39:09 ↗ members are provided equal footing when

39:12 ↗ it comes to the privileges

39:13 ↗ obligations of debate and decision

39:15 ↗ making so

39:16 ↗ um the chair's role is to ensure that

39:21 ↗ it's equitable and so some of those

39:24 ↗ styles can be

39:25 ↗ around robin's style it could be

39:29 ↗ you can't speak twice until

39:33 ↗ everyone has an opportunity to speak

39:34 ↗ first you could also limit the time of

39:37 ↗ the discussion

39:40 ↗ by a time frame like a set number of

39:42 ↗ minutes

39:43 ↗ but really we find the round robin style

39:46 ↗ um

39:46 ↗ has has worked nicely what you don't

39:49 ↗ want is that back and forth dialogue it

39:51 ↗ really isn't appropriate you want to be

39:54 ↗ able to

39:55 ↗ have the chair recognize people

39:58 ↗ and you want your voice to be heard and

40:01 ↗ again we're going to have some chair

40:02 ↗ training so

40:03 ↗ we look forward to providing more on

40:06 ↗ this topic

40:08 ↗ and of course comment should be germaine

40:10 ↗ to the motion and

40:12 ↗ again it needs to be equitable

40:17 ↗ uh before the main motion is voted on

40:19 ↗ what would be the time for

40:21 ↗ amendment to that motion to be made so

40:25 ↗ that occurs after the main motion

40:28 ↗ it also must be seconded

40:32 ↗ before it's voted on so again it's

40:35 ↗ helpful to have in writing

40:37 ↗ if anyone's unclear about what it is you

40:39 ↗ can pause

40:40 ↗ you can ask you can ask for it to be

40:43 ↗ restated you can ask for it be put in

40:45 ↗ writing

40:46 ↗ we really want to ensure that you

40:48 ↗ understand

40:49 ↗ what is in front of you and what you're

40:51 ↗ voting on

40:53 ↗ again debate should be limited to the

40:55 ↗ subject of that amendment

40:57 ↗ and not on the main motion or on other

41:00 ↗ elements that are to be considered

41:04 ↗ and you can only amend so far so um

41:07 ↗ again we don't want to over parliament

41:09 ↗ but we certainly want you to understand

41:12 ↗ uh the basics and be comfortable in that

41:14 ↗ world

41:16 ↗ uh i'm not going to go over this

41:18 ↗ particular example we use this one for a

41:20 ↗ different board and commission

41:24 ↗ traditionally it's you know you're

41:26 ↗ you're making a recommendation on a

41:28 ↗ on a project and then you might amend it

41:31 ↗ amend your recommendation to include

41:34 ↗ additional elements and then you would

41:36 ↗ be voting on the

41:38 ↗ additional item and then if it was

41:41 ↗ um path then you would

41:44 ↗ then be going back to the main motion

41:46 ↗ that incorporated that change

41:48 ↗ and you have another opportunity to vote

41:57 ↗ and for alternates if you're unsure what

41:59 ↗ your role is

42:00 ↗ just ask we want you to be comfortable

42:04 ↗ in understanding those elements if the

42:07 ↗ meeting needs to pause for a moment

42:09 ↗ to confirm the staff liaison and ensure

42:12 ↗ that you're on the right path

42:13 ↗ that's fine we really don't have

42:16 ↗ a mechanism for um saying i abstain

42:20 ↗ you're here as an as a appointed

42:22 ↗ official to

42:25 ↗ have an opinion and to read your

42:28 ↗ materials

42:29 ↗ and to take a vote so

42:32 ↗ unless there's a conflict of interest or

42:34 ↗ some other reason that you need to be

42:38 ↗ out of the meeting we expect you to be

42:41 ↗ voting

42:42 ↗ and if you say that you're abstaining

42:46 ↗ then it counts as a yes vote and i'm not

42:49 ↗ sure how many folks

42:50 ↗ are aware of that but i wanted to bring

42:52 ↗ that to your attention

42:53 ↗ it is a rule of of our city council and

42:57 ↗ this rule within your bylaws

43:02 ↗ if you have concerns about conflict of

43:04 ↗ interest you can always work

43:06 ↗ with our city attorney to determine if

43:08 ↗ it's valid

43:10 ↗ and then there are also when you get

43:11 ↗ into more serious

43:13 ↗ public hearings and quasi items there's

43:15 ↗ more formal processes that you must walk

43:17 ↗ through

43:18 ↗ um that allow someone the right to

43:20 ↗ declare

43:21 ↗ um or object

43:25 ↗ and then with voting in your virtual

43:26 ↗ world uh we want to do it by roll call

43:29 ↗ if uh once we return back to a real room

43:32 ↗ and you're present

43:34 ↗ you can do it by by voice um

43:38 ↗ and so of hands but right now we're

43:41 ↗ doing it by roll call

43:43 ↗ and then really once a vote is taken the

43:45 ↗ recommendation of the majority

43:47 ↗ must be honored

43:54 ↗ for public hearing processes the typical

43:56 ↗ format

43:57 ↗ is that you have a presentation could be

44:00 ↗ from staff it could be from the

44:01 ↗ applicant

44:02 ↗ you are provided an opportunity to have

44:05 ↗ questions and answers

44:06 ↗ this isn't your debate but it's really

44:08 ↗ just to seek clarification on what you

44:10 ↗ heard

44:12 ↗ and then once the hearing is formally

44:14 ↗ opened

44:15 ↗ and the public comments are heard heard

44:18 ↗ at that point

44:19 ↗ which that has concluded the commission

44:21 ↗ needs to decide

44:23 ↗ are you declaring it close or might you

44:26 ↗ want to

44:27 ↗ hear more information from the community

44:29 ↗ and keep it open

44:32 ↗ so once an item is closed you can

44:36 ↗ deliberate and recommend uh you can also

44:40 ↗ maybe you don't have your deliberations

44:42 ↗ concluded or

44:44 ↗ a recommendation to that you're ready to

44:47 ↗ vote on

44:48 ↗ um so that the liberation

44:52 ↗ can be carried over to a future meeting

44:54 ↗ but if you've already closed your

44:56 ↗ hearing

44:56 ↗ that portion of the hearing stays closed

45:04 ↗ let me move on

45:07 ↗ and this is halfway through the

45:09 ↗ presentation

45:10 ↗ so i will gladly hand it over to our

45:13 ↗ city attorney

45:14 ↗ and i am happy to

45:17 ↗ move through the slides at the pace uh

45:19 ↗ just let me know

45:21 ↗ and i'm gonna mute now or if i can ask

45:25 ↗ nope i can do it here we go

45:30 ↗ thank you tina um i'm going to cover

45:32 ↗ public hearings and

45:34 ↗ legislative decisions um public hearings

45:37 ↗ well i'm actually going to cover public

45:39 ↗ hearings for both permit type decisions

45:42 ↗ and legislative decisions but

45:45 ↗ and then i'm going to cover some

45:47 ↗ potential liability issues

45:49 ↗ so next slide tina

45:56 ↗ there are two types of public hearings

45:58 ↗ there are legislative

46:00 ↗ public hearings where the object is to

46:02 ↗ get the public's input on policy issues

46:05 ↗ that may come before the commission or

46:07 ↗ the council

46:08 ↗ and i realize that the commission

46:10 ↗ doesn't do a lot probably

46:12 ↗ of legislative work commission's work is

46:15 ↗ mostly relating to permits and

46:17 ↗ quasi-judicial matters

46:18 ↗ but there may be occasions on which the

46:20 ↗ council could ask you for

46:23 ↗ your opinion to review something and

46:25 ↗ give input on a

46:26 ↗ on a legislative issue so when you're

46:29 ↗ acting as

46:30 ↗ legislative on a legislative issue your

46:32 ↗ object and you're holding a public

46:34 ↗ hearing

46:34 ↗ your object is to obtain public input on

46:37 ↗ policy

46:38 ↗ when you're acting on quasi-judicial

46:41 ↗ matters where you are conducting a

46:43 ↗ public hearing

46:44 ↗ on a development permit the objective

46:48 ↗ is to decide the legal rights of

46:50 ↗ specifically identified parties

46:52 ↗ you're trying to decide does the

46:54 ↗ applicant meet the

46:56 ↗ criteria here to be able to develop the

46:59 ↗ property and should they be granted the

47:01 ↗ permit

47:02 ↗ you're also trying to decide whether the

47:05 ↗ public comment that you receive

47:07 ↗ from other individuals tells you that

47:09 ↗ they shouldn't be granted the permit

47:11 ↗ or maybe provide you information that

47:13 ↗ reinforces that they should

47:15 ↗ so a quasi-judicial hearing is really to

47:18 ↗ determine

47:19 ↗ an individual permit or permit right

47:23 ↗ next slide tina

47:26 ↗ um just to highlight again because i

47:28 ↗ don't know that you

47:30 ↗ you do a lot of these but in legislative

47:32 ↗ hearings people are acting like

47:34 ↗ like boards and commissions are acting

47:35 ↗ like legislators

47:37 ↗ the council does this often the planning

47:40 ↗ policy commission does this often

47:43 ↗ and they're looking at whether the

47:46 ↗ issues or

47:47 ↗ the they're looking at things that

47:49 ↗ affect

47:50 ↗ the community as a whole as opposed to

47:53 ↗ that affect

47:54 ↗ an individual property or the people who

47:56 ↗ surround that property

47:58 ↗ so in legislative matters there is a

48:01 ↗ requirement for public notice for the

48:03 ↗ hearing

48:04 ↗ to lay out what the uh what the hearing

48:07 ↗ is about

48:08 ↗ uh and uh to say that with enough

48:12 ↗ specificity so people can have a

48:14 ↗ meaningful

48:15 ↗ opportunity to be heard next slide tina

48:20 ↗ again in legislative hearing you're just

48:23 ↗ looking

48:24 ↗ at allowing all members of the public to

48:26 ↗ speak

48:27 ↗ you can establish reasonable rules in a

48:29 ↗ legislative hearing

48:31 ↗ such as relevance time limit uh often

48:35 ↗ there are four minute or five minute

48:37 ↗ time limits to people to speak

48:39 ↗ you can establish decorum rules and so

48:41 ↗ forth it's not a free-for-all it's not a

48:44 ↗ an entirely first amendment proceeding

48:46 ↗ where anybody gets to say anything for

48:49 ↗ as long as they want

48:50 ↗ so but it's important in a legislative

48:54 ↗ hearing to state the ground rules

48:56 ↗ by the chair at the outset of the

48:58 ↗ hearing so that everybody gets a chance

49:01 ↗ to participate

49:02 ↗ meaningfully and know what the

49:06 ↗ rules are next slide tina

49:10 ↗ in legislative hearings we do have a set

49:13 ↗ of criteria

49:14 ↗ in the city code for each type of

49:16 ↗ legislative matter comprehensive plan

49:18 ↗ amendments

49:20 ↗ development regulation amendments

49:23 ↗ rezones

49:24 ↗ those are all those all have decision

49:26 ↗ criteria set

49:28 ↗ by code or statute in the absence of

49:31 ↗ set criteria on legislative matters it's

49:34 ↗ simply a policy judgment

49:36 ↗ and as you're going to see in a moment

49:37 ↗ that's not the case with respect to

49:39 ↗ quasi-judicial matters

49:42 ↗ in legislative hearings as well um

49:46 ↗ the the body is not limited to consider

49:49 ↗ the

49:50 ↗ to just the testimony and documents that

49:52 ↗ are presented at the hearing

49:55 ↗ and that's in contests in contrast to

49:58 ↗ a a quasi-judicial public hearing on a

50:02 ↗ permit

50:03 ↗ where you have to make the decision

50:04 ↗ based on the evidence

50:06 ↗ that is presented to you and cannot go

50:09 ↗ outside that evidence

50:11 ↗ to come up with a different rationale or

50:14 ↗ a different evidence that supports a

50:16 ↗ decision

50:17 ↗ so it's a big distinction between

50:19 ↗ legislative hearings in quasi-judicial

50:21 ↗ hearings

50:22 ↗ legislative hearings you can listen to

50:24 ↗ whatever you want

50:26 ↗ and make the decision on whatever basis

50:28 ↗ you want

50:29 ↗ in quasi-digital hearings you're limited

50:32 ↗ to the evidence that is presented before

50:34 ↗ you

50:35 ↗ next slide tina

50:38 ↗ as i said in quasi-judicial decisions

50:41 ↗ you're acting like a court

50:43 ↗ that's really what distinguishes a

50:45 ↗ quasi-judicial decision or a permitting

50:47 ↗ action

50:48 ↗ uh from a legislative decision you're

50:51 ↗ acting like a court you're not acting

50:53 ↗ like a legislator

50:54 ↗ and what courts do is if they hold

50:56 ↗ hearings or trials

50:58 ↗ to gather evidence so that they can make

51:00 ↗ a decision based on that

51:02 ↗ evidence and that's what you do in a

51:05 ↗ quasi-judicial process

51:07 ↗ you look at it as we're gathering the

51:09 ↗ evidence which we need

51:11 ↗ in order to determine whether this

51:13 ↗ permit application

51:14 ↗ should be granted based on the criteria

51:17 ↗ in the code

51:18 ↗ so you make findings ultimately based on

51:21 ↗ the evidence

51:22 ↗ you say well this is what the

51:24 ↗ application is about

51:26 ↗ this is how big it is this is what its

51:28 ↗ traffic impacts are

51:30 ↗ and so forth and then you apply the

51:33 ↗ permit criteria

51:34 ↗ to those facts to draw conclusions as to

51:37 ↗ whether the permit should be granted

51:39 ↗ and again you're deciding the rights of

51:41 ↗ the applicant to develop its property

51:43 ↗ you're deciding the rights of others

51:45 ↗ individuals who may be affected by that

51:48 ↗ development

51:48 ↗ and that's what makes it a

51:50 ↗ quasi-judicial proceeding

51:52 ↗ next slide tina

51:55 ↗ for quasi-digital decisions you should

51:58 ↗ have standing rules of procedure

52:00 ↗ in the absence of standing rules it is

52:04 ↗ important to work out that procedure in

52:06 ↗ advance and to announce the procedure at

52:08 ↗ the outset

52:09 ↗ of or prior to the hearing typically

52:13 ↗ the party with the burden of proof

52:15 ↗ presents first

52:17 ↗ in most development applications that

52:19 ↗ you'll see

52:20 ↗ i assume we see a staff presentation

52:23 ↗ first

52:24 ↗ and then we may see an applicant

52:25 ↗ presentation

52:27 ↗ and the reason why we have the applicant

52:29 ↗ make a specific presentation

52:31 ↗ is because it is the applicant's burden

52:34 ↗ of proof

52:35 ↗ ultimately to show that their

52:37 ↗ application meets the criteria in the

52:39 ↗ code

52:40 ↗ it's not the city's burden to show that

52:42 ↗ it's not the

52:44 ↗ burden of the uh people who may

52:47 ↗ oppose uh the proceed the permit

52:51 ↗ to show that it doesn't meet the code

52:53 ↗ the applicant bears the burden of

52:55 ↗ showing that it meets the code

52:57 ↗ and that its permit should be granted so

53:00 ↗ they

53:00 ↗ usually in a quasi-digital matter

53:04 ↗ they get the chance to go up front and

53:07 ↗ make their case

53:08 ↗ and then sometimes they but not always

53:12 ↗ they get the chance to make a rebuttal

53:14 ↗ after all the public testimony is in and

53:16 ↗ somebody says

53:18 ↗ uh you know a number of people have

53:20 ↗ testified maybe in opposition to the

53:22 ↗ project

53:23 ↗ the applicant sometimes gets the chance

53:25 ↗ to come back

53:26 ↗ or the staff gets the chance to come

53:28 ↗ back and say okay

53:29 ↗ this is how we respond to those comments

53:33 ↗ commissioners can ask questions at any

53:35 ↗ time in a quasi-digital hearing

53:39 ↗ it is important that you get your

53:40 ↗ questions answered and it's important

53:42 ↗ that you get your questions answered

53:45 ↗ on the record before the hearing is

53:47 ↗ closed so you want to make sure you've

53:49 ↗ asked all your questions

53:50 ↗ before you close the hearing because

53:53 ↗ again we're limited

53:54 ↗ in a quasi-diatrial matter to deciding

53:58 ↗ the case based on the evidence that is

54:00 ↗ produced

54:01 ↗ in the public hearing and that includes

54:03 ↗ the responses to your questions

54:06 ↗ next slide tina

54:10 ↗ one of the things that separates uh

54:14 ↗ quasi-judicial hearings from legislative

54:16 ↗ hearings

54:17 ↗ is a doctrine called the appearance of

54:19 ↗ fairness and i know you've been through

54:21 ↗ this a million times

54:22 ↗ lucy i'm sure at the outset of every

54:26 ↗ public hearing goes through the

54:27 ↗ appearance of fairness with you so

54:28 ↗ you've probably

54:29 ↗ heard about it as not ad nauseam but

54:32 ↗ i'll just give you a couple of

54:33 ↗ perspectives that i have um

54:37 ↗ first of all note that it is the

54:38 ↗ appearance of fairness

54:41 ↗ the appearance of fairness doctrine it's

54:42 ↗ not the fairness doctrine

54:44 ↗ it's not enough that you actually are

54:48 ↗ fair you must your decision must

54:51 ↗ appear to be fair to a reasonably

54:54 ↗ disinterested person

54:56 ↗ the standard is would a reasonably

55:00 ↗ with a reasonable disinterested person

55:03 ↗ someone who has no

55:04 ↗ interest in the proceedings personal

55:06 ↗ interest would they

55:08 ↗ knowing everything about your background

55:10 ↗ as it relates to this

55:12 ↗ particular application or project

55:16 ↗ believe that you might not be fair

55:20 ↗ and again might not be fair it's not

55:23 ↗ whether you

55:24 ↗ actually are fair or whether you can

55:26 ↗ actually be fair

55:28 ↗ it's whether a reasonable person might

55:30 ↗ have the

55:31 ↗ the occasion to question whether you

55:34 ↗ would be fair

55:35 ↗ based on your background and the focus

55:38 ↗ as it says here is on the decision

55:40 ↗ maker's relationship

55:42 ↗ with persons affected by the decision

55:45 ↗ or whether you're affected by the

55:47 ↗ decision yourself

55:49 ↗ so next slide tina

55:53 ↗ there are a number of questions that get

55:55 ↗ asked and i know these are

55:57 ↗ probably familiar to you because i'm

55:59 ↗ sure lucy asks them all the time

56:01 ↗ but the first question is do you have a

56:03 ↗ personal interest

56:04 ↗ financial or otherwise in the matter

56:07 ↗ such that you stand to gain or lose by

56:09 ↗ the decision

56:11 ↗ and an example i like to use is

56:15 ↗ will the traffic from the proposal go by

56:18 ↗ your house

56:19 ↗ and create congestion on the street that

56:22 ↗ you live on

56:23 ↗ or create a safety hazard on the street

56:25 ↗ that you live on you have a personal

56:27 ↗ interest

56:28 ↗ in your property value you have a

56:30 ↗ personal interest

56:31 ↗ in making sure that your environment is

56:34 ↗ safe

56:35 ↗ and is not congested so you do have an

56:38 ↗ interest

56:38 ↗ in that in that circumstance that could

56:41 ↗ be an appearance of fairness interest

56:45 ↗ second will be there will there be

56:47 ↗ prospective employment for the decision

56:49 ↗ maker or his or her family as a result

56:51 ↗ of the decision

56:52 ↗ and i know that one sounds kind of out

56:54 ↗ there

56:55 ↗ but it's based on an actual case example

56:58 ↗ where

56:59 ↗ a person who was on a border commission

57:03 ↗ voted for the

57:06 ↗ for the permit and then immediately

57:09 ↗ took a job with the permit applicant

57:13 ↗ and under those circumstances the court

57:16 ↗ said that

57:17 ↗ even though the person was on the board

57:19 ↗ was not employed by the

57:21 ↗ by the applicant at the time that they

57:23 ↗ heard this they did have

57:25 ↗ prospective employment with them and

57:28 ↗ that

57:28 ↗ created an appearance a fairness problem

57:33 ↗ it may also be the case where as the

57:35 ↗ third question says

57:36 ↗ is there any business competition

57:38 ↗ between the decision maker and any of

57:40 ↗ the parties at the hearing

57:41 ↗ for example is the permit before you

57:46 ↗ to build a structure for a commercial

57:50 ↗ business

57:50 ↗ and you own a business that is in

57:53 ↗ competition

57:54 ↗ with that business that would create an

57:56 ↗ appearance a fairness problem

57:57 ↗ someone would think you might not be

58:00 ↗ able to treat

58:01 ↗ the application fairly next slide tina

58:08 ↗ you also have to look at familiar

58:09 ↗ relationships so

58:11 ↗ it's not just your involvement with the

58:14 ↗ proceeding

58:15 ↗ but if you have a close family member

58:19 ↗ who is involved say your son

58:22 ↗ or daughter works for the company that

58:27 ↗ has the application before you that

58:30 ↗ would create

58:30 ↗ an appearance of fairness issue or

58:34 ↗ if they worked for someone who was

58:36 ↗ opposing the application

58:38 ↗ that also could create an issue

58:41 ↗ do you own or control property near the

58:43 ↗ subject property

58:44 ↗ and again that's a matter of is this

58:47 ↗ development

58:48 ↗ that you have before you going to

58:50 ↗ possibly have an effect

58:52 ↗ on the property that you own that would

58:55 ↗ create an appearance of fairness issue

58:59 ↗ have you made a final decision on the

59:01 ↗ request before hearing any testimony or

59:03 ↗ evidence

59:05 ↗ that's a lot of actual unfairness

59:08 ↗ but you have to be careful you know that

59:12 ↗ actual bias is does violate the

59:15 ↗ appearance of fairness

59:16 ↗ doctrine as well so if you're out there

59:18 ↗ and you say

59:20 ↗ it and you say i would never approve

59:22 ↗ this development

59:24 ↗ and this development you know will occur

59:26 ↗ over my dead body

59:28 ↗ and then it the development gets applied

59:30 ↗ for

59:31 ↗ you're going to have an appearance a

59:32 ↗ fairness problem so

59:34 ↗ that's one to keep in mind is to just be

59:37 ↗ careful

59:38 ↗ under those circumstances the last

59:41 ↗ question here on this slide is

59:43 ↗ have any ex parte contacts occurred and

59:46 ↗ an

59:46 ↗ ex-parte contact is a contact that you

59:49 ↗ have with someone

59:50 ↗ outside of the public hearing and as i

59:53 ↗ said at the outset

59:54 ↗ you have to decide the permit

59:57 ↗ application

59:58 ↗ based on the evidence that is presented

1:00:00 ↗ at the hearing

1:00:01 ↗ so the question is have have people

1:00:04 ↗ provided you with information

1:00:07 ↗ outside of the hearing that you may

1:00:10 ↗ in fact that you may in fact take into

1:00:14 ↗ account

1:00:14 ↗ in the proceeding and therefore might

1:00:17 ↗ not be fair

1:00:18 ↗ and i think if you think about it you

1:00:20 ↗ know um

1:00:21 ↗ it's pretty simple if you were

1:00:25 ↗ appearing before a judge you would want

1:00:28 ↗ to

1:00:28 ↗ know that the judge had not had

1:00:30 ↗ conversations outside of the courtroom

1:00:34 ↗ with people who were on the other side

1:00:36 ↗ of the issue

1:00:38 ↗ and that would tell you that the judge

1:00:40 ↗ might not be fair and that wouldn't be a

1:00:42 ↗ fair proceeding

1:00:43 ↗ so you want to be careful about having

1:00:45 ↗ ex parte communications and contacts

1:00:48 ↗ about an application

1:00:51 ↗ while that application is pending and i

1:00:53 ↗ want to stress that

1:00:55 ↗ while the application is pending before

1:00:57 ↗ you

1:00:59 ↗ you know if you had discussions with

1:01:01 ↗ people before the application was filed

1:01:04 ↗ that's not an issue but if you have

1:01:07 ↗ contacts with people about the

1:01:09 ↗ application when the application is

1:01:12 ↗ pending before you and will come before

1:01:14 ↗ you

1:01:14 ↗ that is going to create a problem next

1:01:17 ↗ slide tina

1:01:20 ↗ there is a way to cure those ex parte

1:01:23 ↗ contacts

1:01:24 ↗ um you can do that by disclosing the

1:01:26 ↗ substance of those comments at the

1:01:28 ↗ outset of the hearing

1:01:30 ↗ and giving the parties an opportunity to

1:01:32 ↗ address them

1:01:34 ↗ and the theory there is that you just

1:01:36 ↗ you say well

1:01:37 ↗ you know i was in the grocery store

1:01:41 ↗ and you know person

1:01:44 ↗ x approached me and said i can't believe

1:01:47 ↗ that the development commission

1:01:49 ↗ would ever grant this permit you

1:01:52 ↗ shouldn't grant it because

1:01:53 ↗ and you it happens so fast that you

1:01:56 ↗ can't tell them

1:01:57 ↗ you know stop that is not necessarily

1:02:01 ↗ going to disqualify you

1:02:03 ↗ because you can come into the hearing

1:02:05 ↗ and at the outset of the hearing

1:02:06 ↗ tell that story when lucy asks you have

1:02:09 ↗ there been any ex parte contacts you can

1:02:12 ↗ tell that story and say

1:02:13 ↗ yeah i had some this person came in and

1:02:16 ↗ this is what they said to me

1:02:18 ↗ and that gives the applicant

1:02:22 ↗ and anyone else who might be interested

1:02:25 ↗ the opportunity to get up during the

1:02:26 ↗ hearing

1:02:27 ↗ and rebut those comments or address

1:02:29 ↗ those comments

1:02:30 ↗ and so that cures the appearance of

1:02:34 ↗ fairness

1:02:35 ↗ issue but that's the only one that gets

1:02:39 ↗ cured by that kind of disclosure just by

1:02:42 ↗ disclosing it if you disclose their

1:02:46 ↗ ex party context someone cannot

1:02:48 ↗ challenge you based on appearance of

1:02:49 ↗ fairness

1:02:50 ↗ if you have disclosed your ex party

1:02:52 ↗ contacts

1:02:54 ↗ other appearance of fairness problems

1:02:57 ↗ can only be cured through disclosure and

1:03:00 ↗ the lack of objection

1:03:02 ↗ and so at the outset of the hearing when

1:03:04 ↗ lucy asks the questions

1:03:06 ↗ if you disclose that you yes i own

1:03:08 ↗ property

1:03:09 ↗ within 300 feet of this project

1:03:12 ↗ and i got public notice of the hearing

1:03:15 ↗ and i just

1:03:16 ↗ i'm putting that on the record if nobody

1:03:19 ↗ objects

1:03:19 ↗ to your further participation they have

1:03:22 ↗ waived

1:03:23 ↗ any objection to it and you can continue

1:03:26 ↗ to participate

1:03:27 ↗ without worrying about the appearance of

1:03:29 ↗ fairness doctrine

1:03:30 ↗ one tip i always suggest and i haven't

1:03:33 ↗ intended enough of your hearings to know

1:03:35 ↗ if

1:03:35 ↗ lucy does this or staff does this but

1:03:38 ↗ is just for either staff or the

1:03:42 ↗ attorney if we're there or the chair

1:03:45 ↗ to say after all the disclosures are

1:03:48 ↗ made

1:03:48 ↗ does anyone have any objection to any

1:03:51 ↗ of the commissioners continuing to sit

1:03:55 ↗ and hear this matter and if there's dead

1:03:58 ↗ silence

1:03:58 ↗ out there then i suggest you say

1:04:02 ↗ i have heard no objections and therefore

1:04:05 ↗ the hearing will continue with all

1:04:07 ↗ commissioners

1:04:09 ↗ acting and that's just to make sure that

1:04:13 ↗ when we have a transcript later when

1:04:16 ↗ if we ever get into an appeal and i'll

1:04:19 ↗ talk about

1:04:19 ↗ appeals later if we ever get into an

1:04:22 ↗ appeal

1:04:23 ↗ we have a clear record that says

1:04:26 ↗ the chair asked for objections no one

1:04:29 ↗ made an objection

1:04:30 ↗ everybody was given an opportunity

1:04:32 ↗ nobody objected

1:04:33 ↗ and so the appearance of fairness

1:04:35 ↗ challenges were waived

1:04:39 ↗ go let's go to the next slide tina

1:04:43 ↗ um quasi-digital decision making

1:04:46 ↗ um once you have finished with the

1:04:48 ↗ hearing

1:04:49 ↗ um deliberations can occur right after

1:04:53 ↗ the hearing i know

1:04:54 ↗ sometimes you're tired after having a

1:04:57 ↗ long hearing or you want to think about

1:04:59 ↗ the testimony that you've heard

1:05:02 ↗ before you start your deliberations

1:05:04 ↗ that's fine you can either have your

1:05:06 ↗ deliberations

1:05:07 ↗ right after the hearing closes or you

1:05:09 ↗ could set them over to a subsequent date

1:05:12 ↗ the thing to rem the two things to

1:05:14 ↗ remember with that

1:05:15 ↗ are that first as i said

1:05:18 ↗ you need to ask all of your questions

1:05:21 ↗ in the hearing so if you think you may

1:05:24 ↗ have additional questions

1:05:26 ↗ i suggest you don't close the hearing

1:05:30 ↗ and and you continue the hearing to the

1:05:33 ↗ next date

1:05:34 ↗ in case you want to ask questions but if

1:05:36 ↗ you are

1:05:37 ↗ sure that you've uh you've

1:05:40 ↗ asked all your questions and maybe you

1:05:43 ↗ start your deliberations but you say now

1:05:45 ↗ i'm just getting too tired and i want to

1:05:46 ↗ continue it over

1:05:48 ↗ then your deliberations can be continued

1:05:51 ↗ to another date

1:05:54 ↗ as i said before the decision in

1:05:56 ↗ quasi-judicial decisions

1:05:57 ↗ must be based on the criteria in the

1:06:00 ↗ code

1:06:00 ↗ and each permit has criteria in the code

1:06:03 ↗ as you know

1:06:05 ↗ and your decision is going to have to

1:06:07 ↗ address each of those criteria

1:06:09 ↗ as you make a decision and if you find

1:06:13 ↗ that the application meets all of the

1:06:15 ↗ criteria you approve it

1:06:17 ↗ if you find that the application does

1:06:19 ↗ not meet the criteria

1:06:21 ↗ either you condition it so that it does

1:06:24 ↗ or

1:06:25 ↗ you deny

1:06:28 ↗ the permit also as i said the decision

1:06:32 ↗ has to be based on the record that is

1:06:34 ↗ the testimony and comment presented at

1:06:36 ↗ the hearing

1:06:36 ↗ and the documents and exhibits that were

1:06:39 ↗ submitted

1:06:39 ↗ you can't go do your own investigation

1:06:43 ↗ um and come up with additional evidence

1:06:46 ↗ you have to base things based on what

1:06:48 ↗ you've heard at the hearing

1:06:50 ↗ next slide tina um jim before you

1:06:54 ↗ move on um there's a point that often

1:06:57 ↗ comes up

1:06:58 ↗ on the previous slide thank you for

1:07:00 ↗ going back

1:07:01 ↗ related to the point you've just made

1:07:04 ↗ about doing

1:07:04 ↗ your own research some commissioners

1:07:08 ↗ have

1:07:08 ↗ asked about whether they can visit the

1:07:11 ↗ site

1:07:12 ↗ and i think that might be a good point

1:07:15 ↗ just

1:07:15 ↗ to um touch on for a moment if you would

1:07:18 ↗ sure the answer is

1:07:22 ↗ yes but a great attorney's answer right

1:07:27 ↗ yes but um

1:07:30 ↗ the when you think about

1:07:34 ↗ again this is like a trial and sometimes

1:07:37 ↗ in courts courts take juries out to

1:07:40 ↗ sites to look at the site

1:07:44 ↗ and what the court does is it gives the

1:07:46 ↗ jury an instruction

1:07:47 ↗ and i think this is the kind of

1:07:49 ↗ instruction you should have

1:07:51 ↗ is that what you see at the site is not

1:07:54 ↗ evidence the only reason you go to the

1:07:58 ↗ site is to be able to help you

1:08:00 ↗ understand the evidence so

1:08:03 ↗ for example if you were having trouble

1:08:07 ↗ visualizing how the site laid out based

1:08:09 ↗ on the testimony and you wanted to

1:08:11 ↗ understand it

1:08:12 ↗ you might you could go to the site and

1:08:14 ↗ take a look

1:08:16 ↗ and see and that that would be okay what

1:08:19 ↗ i'm doing

1:08:20 ↗ is i'm using this visual cue

1:08:24 ↗ to tell me what the evidence means

1:08:27 ↗ but let's say on the other hand you go

1:08:29 ↗ out to the site

1:08:31 ↗ and i had this actually happen in

1:08:34 ↗ in a hearing that i was in you go out to

1:08:36 ↗ the site

1:08:37 ↗ and you investigate and you think

1:08:41 ↗ that there you think you've seen a

1:08:43 ↗ wetland on the site

1:08:44 ↗ and you come back and you say you you

1:08:47 ↗ say okay i was out to the site and

1:08:49 ↗ i saw a wetland on there so i think we

1:08:51 ↗ need to condition or we need to deny the

1:08:53 ↗ permit based on the fact that there is a

1:08:55 ↗ wetland

1:08:56 ↗ and if there's no other testimony in the

1:08:58 ↗ record you're relying on testimony

1:09:00 ↗ you're relying on evidence to make your

1:09:02 ↗ decision and you're relying on something

1:09:04 ↗ that is not part of the record

1:09:06 ↗ so you can go to the site for certain

1:09:09 ↗ reasons but not for others and you just

1:09:10 ↗ need to be careful about it

1:09:16 ↗ any further questions on that or should

1:09:18 ↗ i move on

1:09:20 ↗ actually just a quick follow-up on that

1:09:22 ↗ so if you go out to

1:09:24 ↗ to a site to get a lay of the land and

1:09:25 ↗ you think you see something that looks

1:09:27 ↗ like a wetland

1:09:28 ↗ could you ask during the hearing

1:09:31 ↗ whether there was a wetland

1:09:33 ↗ investigation conducted

1:09:35 ↗ yes if the if the um if the

1:09:39 ↗ hearing is open still open you can say

1:09:42 ↗ to

1:09:43 ↗ you can say look i went out and

1:09:46 ↗ and looked at the site where hex

1:09:48 ↗ issaquah is

1:09:49 ↗ not a huge not huge enough where most of

1:09:52 ↗ you haven't been through

1:09:54 ↗ various parts of issaquah you've

1:09:55 ↗ probably seen most sites just driving by

1:09:57 ↗ them

1:09:58 ↗ and you say look i'm familiar with this

1:09:59 ↗ site i think there's something here

1:10:02 ↗ can you address this issue and then you

1:10:05 ↗ give them an

1:10:05 ↗ opportunity to do it and you then

1:10:09 ↗ when they when they address the issue

1:10:12 ↗ in the hearing and say yes we did a

1:10:14 ↗ wetland evaluation

1:10:16 ↗ yes this was not a wetland based on the

1:10:19 ↗ evaluation that we did

1:10:20 ↗ then you can rely on that evidence

1:10:23 ↗ you're not relying on what you saw at

1:10:25 ↗ the site as the evidence you're relying

1:10:27 ↗ on what evidence you got

1:10:28 ↗ at the hearing thanks thanks

1:10:32 ↗ okay okay we'll move on

1:10:35 ↗ um i'll just cover this very briefly

1:10:39 ↗ in legislative matters when you're

1:10:41 ↗ dealing with development regulations

1:10:44 ↗ those can be appealed to the growth

1:10:46 ↗ management hearings board

1:10:49 ↗ the growth management hearings board

1:10:51 ↗ looks

1:10:52 ↗ is charged by statute with determining

1:10:55 ↗ whether city development regulations and

1:10:57 ↗ comprehensive plans

1:10:59 ↗ meet the requirements of the growth

1:11:00 ↗ management act and the king county

1:11:02 ↗ county-wide planning policies

1:11:05 ↗ so when there's a legislative matter

1:11:07 ↗ that is

1:11:08 ↗ decided development regulations

1:11:11 ↗ comprehensive plan changes

1:11:13 ↗ those kinds of appeals go to the growth

1:11:16 ↗ management hearings board

1:11:19 ↗ the growth management hearings board

1:11:21 ↗ specifically does not have jurisdiction

1:11:24 ↗ to consider permit appeals and so

1:11:28 ↗ those are handled under an entirely

1:11:30 ↗ different process that we'll cover in a

1:11:32 ↗ few moments called

1:11:33 ↗ the land use petition act and those go

1:11:36 ↗ to court

1:11:37 ↗ but legislative matters relating to your

1:11:41 ↗ development regulations and

1:11:42 ↗ comprehensive plan go to the

1:11:44 ↗ growth management hearing sport next

1:11:47 ↗ slide tina

1:11:53 ↗ so there's some legal challenges that

1:11:55 ↗ can be made to your decisions

1:11:57 ↗ some of these apply to both

1:12:01 ↗ legislative uh matters and quasi-digital

1:12:04 ↗ matters

1:12:05 ↗ a first legal challenge that can be

1:12:08 ↗ raised is procedural due process

1:12:11 ↗ did you give the members of the public

1:12:14 ↗ and the applicant adequate notice

1:12:17 ↗ of the hearing and a meaningful

1:12:20 ↗ opportunity to be heard

1:12:22 ↗ and that means that the notice has to

1:12:24 ↗ say what the hearing is about

1:12:26 ↗ so that a person can determine whether

1:12:28 ↗ or not they want to testify

1:12:30 ↗ and what then can prepare to make their

1:12:33 ↗ testimony

1:12:34 ↗ now some notices uh will describe

1:12:38 ↗ things generally and then provide a link

1:12:41 ↗ to

1:12:41 ↗ say a staff report or an application

1:12:44 ↗ and that's that's fine to give that type

1:12:47 ↗ of notice

1:12:48 ↗ but if you just said we're going to hold

1:12:50 ↗ a public hearing

1:12:52 ↗ on development of xyz

1:12:55 ↗ parcel and you didn't say what the

1:12:57 ↗ permit was

1:12:58 ↗ you didn't say how any and give any

1:13:01 ↗ further

1:13:02 ↗ really details about it that would not

1:13:04 ↗ be adequate notice because it would not

1:13:05 ↗ tell people

1:13:07 ↗ enough so that they could make a

1:13:09 ↗ determination as to whether or not to

1:13:10 ↗ testify

1:13:12 ↗ a procedural due process also means that

1:13:14 ↗ procedures in the code

1:13:16 ↗ need to be followed the procedures are

1:13:18 ↗ in there for a reason

1:13:19 ↗ and even though we're rewriting title 18

1:13:22 ↗ as we speak

1:13:24 ↗ and hopefully we'll make the procedures

1:13:26 ↗ better

1:13:28 ↗ we need to follow the procedures that

1:13:30 ↗ are in the code currently

1:13:33 ↗ or there is a potential for decisions

1:13:36 ↗ being invalidated on basis a procedural

1:13:39 ↗ due process

1:13:41 ↗ next slide

1:13:44 ↗ substantive due process is really a

1:13:46 ↗ legislative

1:13:47 ↗ action but it sometimes gets into

1:13:50 ↗ quasi-digital things

1:13:51 ↗ the current state of the law on

1:13:53 ↗ substantive due process

1:13:55 ↗ is simply to say that the legislation if

1:13:58 ↗ it's a legislative action must serve a

1:14:00 ↗ legitimate public purpose

1:14:02 ↗ and must not be arbitrary or irrational

1:14:06 ↗ that's the current test used by the

1:14:08 ↗ courts

1:14:09 ↗ whether something is arbitrary or

1:14:11 ↗ irrational or whether it doesn't serve a

1:14:14 ↗ legitimate public purpose

1:14:16 ↗ but again most of your work is going to

1:14:17 ↗ be quasi-judicial

1:14:20 ↗ so there is less likelihood that

1:14:22 ↗ substantive due process will come into

1:14:24 ↗ play

1:14:25 ↗ uh next slide

1:14:29 ↗ and now the land use petition act this

1:14:31 ↗ is um

1:14:33 ↗ something which was uh enacted by the

1:14:36 ↗ legislature

1:14:37 ↗ in the mid-1990s to govern

1:14:41 ↗ how land use permits are appealed to

1:14:44 ↗ courts

1:14:45 ↗ and to um to establish a

1:14:49 ↗ uniform process for that permit

1:14:52 ↗ decisions

1:14:53 ↗ that the city makes are

1:14:56 ↗ appealable to the superior court under

1:14:58 ↗ the land use petition act

1:15:00 ↗ and the a landis petition act challenge

1:15:03 ↗ must be brought within 21 days

1:15:05 ↗ after the decision is made and is

1:15:08 ↗ publicly available

1:15:10 ↗ but the court has a limited review and

1:15:13 ↗ it really

1:15:13 ↗ in it really is deferential

1:15:17 ↗ to uh the decision makers

1:15:20 ↗ uh not to an applicant or to opponents

1:15:24 ↗ but it's deferential to the decision

1:15:26 ↗ makers because

1:15:27 ↗ the act recognizes that you guys are in

1:15:29 ↗ the trenches

1:15:30 ↗ you're the ones who heard all of the

1:15:32 ↗ evidence you're the ones who assess

1:15:34 ↗ the credibility of witnesses and the

1:15:37 ↗ court

1:15:38 ↗ is not going to overturn that unless it

1:15:40 ↗ is

1:15:41 ↗ a fairly egregious violation so

1:15:44 ↗ the court looks at six different things

1:15:48 ↗ i've laid them out here first is was

1:15:50 ↗ your decision supported by

1:15:52 ↗ substantial evidence in the record

1:15:55 ↗ it doesn't have to be overwhelming

1:15:56 ↗ evidence it doesn't even have to be

1:15:59 ↗ necessarily a preponderance of the

1:16:01 ↗ evidence

1:16:02 ↗ it means that there is enough evidence

1:16:05 ↗ in the record that supports the factual

1:16:07 ↗ findings that you made

1:16:09 ↗ to say that you carefully weighed the

1:16:13 ↗ evidence

1:16:14 ↗ any and that there's evidence to support

1:16:17 ↗ what you did

1:16:18 ↗ second the court looks at whether or not

1:16:21 ↗ in making your decision

1:16:22 ↗ you made an erroneous interpretation of

1:16:25 ↗ an

1:16:25 ↗ ordinance or other law and so

1:16:29 ↗ they look at the criteria that you're

1:16:31 ↗ looking at and say

1:16:32 ↗ did you interpret that criteria

1:16:34 ↗ correctly or did you make some

1:16:37 ↗ erroneous interpretation of it

1:16:40 ↗ third the court asks

1:16:43 ↗ was your decision based on a clearly

1:16:45 ↗ erroneous application

1:16:47 ↗ of the law to the facts so

1:16:51 ↗ it's it's again asking did you have

1:16:53 ↗ evidence did you have facts

1:16:56 ↗ did you look at the criteria properly

1:16:59 ↗ and then did you apply them properly to

1:17:01 ↗ the facts

1:17:02 ↗ in order to arrive at a decision

1:17:06 ↗ fourth it asks whether your decision had

1:17:08 ↗ a procedural error

1:17:10 ↗ and the the

1:17:13 ↗ land use petition act specifically says

1:17:16 ↗ that

1:17:16 ↗ there are procedural errors that are

1:17:18 ↗ harmless that don't affect

1:17:20 ↗ the fact that the person got an

1:17:22 ↗ opportunity to be heard and so forth

1:17:24 ↗ maybe maybe you missed some minor thing

1:17:29 ↗ but if there is a substantial procedural

1:17:32 ↗ error

1:17:33 ↗ that deprives somebody of their right to

1:17:35 ↗ be heard

1:17:36 ↗ that is a concern for the court

1:17:39 ↗ fifth is whether or not the decision was

1:17:43 ↗ outside the jurisdiction of the decision

1:17:45 ↗ maker

1:17:49 ↗ that applies mostly probably to hearing

1:17:52 ↗ examiner decisions

1:17:53 ↗ but in your case there may be

1:17:56 ↗ things that you decide which you know

1:18:00 ↗ someone would say is not within the

1:18:02 ↗ criteria or within the purview of the

1:18:04 ↗ board to decide

1:18:05 ↗ that's the kind of of challenge that

1:18:08 ↗ could be made

1:18:09 ↗ and lastly the court looks at whether or

1:18:13 ↗ not

1:18:14 ↗ the decision violates the constitutional

1:18:16 ↗ rights of a party

1:18:18 ↗ and that's where this substantive due

1:18:20 ↗ process and procedural due process can

1:18:23 ↗ come into play under the land use

1:18:25 ↗ petition act

1:18:26 ↗ review under the landis petition act is

1:18:28 ↗ on the record

1:18:30 ↗ no new evidence is taken by the court

1:18:33 ↗ and i'll qualify that by saying that

1:18:36 ↗ there is

1:18:36 ↗ one circumstance under which the court

1:18:39 ↗ may take new evidence

1:18:41 ↗ and that i have seen and that is if

1:18:43 ↗ there is an allegation

1:18:45 ↗ that board members did not disclose

1:18:49 ↗ sufficiently appearance of fairness

1:18:52 ↗ issues that they had and

1:18:55 ↗ if someone says i only found out about

1:18:58 ↗ this after the hearing

1:19:00 ↗ because this member of the board was

1:19:02 ↗ actually employed

1:19:03 ↗ by one of the parties and didn't

1:19:05 ↗ disclose that i only found out about it

1:19:07 ↗ later

1:19:08 ↗ the court will allow the record to be

1:19:10 ↗ supplemented with evidence

1:19:11 ↗ so that it consider consider whether the

1:19:13 ↗ appearance of fairness was

1:19:15 ↗ was violated but in most cases the court

1:19:18 ↗ is limited to the record

1:19:20 ↗ what happens is that the hearing is

1:19:22 ↗ transcribed

1:19:24 ↗ by the person who is appealing

1:19:28 ↗ and all of the documents which were

1:19:30 ↗ submitted into the evidence are compiled

1:19:32 ↗ and all of that is submitted to the

1:19:34 ↗ court and

1:19:36 ↗ then the court reviews briefing

1:19:40 ↗ submitted by the parties and the court

1:19:42 ↗ hears oral argument

1:19:43 ↗ and then ultimately the court decides

1:19:45 ↗ whether any of these six standards that

1:19:47 ↗ i laid out above have been violated

1:19:50 ↗ so that's how you challenge a

1:19:53 ↗ development commission decision

1:19:55 ↗ uh or wreck or a decision of the city

1:19:58 ↗ council based on a development

1:20:00 ↗ commission

1:20:01 ↗ recommendation next slide

1:20:05 ↗ well i guess that's the end of my

1:20:06 ↗ presentation um i'll turn it back over

1:20:09 ↗ to tina

1:20:10 ↗ and see if she has anything additional

1:20:12 ↗ to say before we

1:20:14 ↗ just open up to final questions

1:20:21 ↗ thank you it's it's again a pleasure to

1:20:24 ↗ be here

1:20:25 ↗ and spend time with you these topics are

1:20:28 ↗ important

1:20:28 ↗ we want you to be comfortable in the

1:20:31 ↗ roles that you serve

1:20:32 ↗ and know that you have resources

1:20:35 ↗ and we are here to help so reach out

1:20:39 ↗ if we can provide more information to

1:20:41 ↗ you

1:20:43 ↗ do any of the commissioners have

1:20:45 ↗ questions before i

1:20:47 ↗ do my brief part

1:20:51 ↗ yes i have a question uh this is richard

1:20:54 ↗ sanford

1:20:55 ↗ my question is about notes and records

1:20:58 ↗ um

1:20:58 ↗ when we receive a packet from the staff

1:21:01 ↗ and we review the packet

1:21:03 ↗ we probably make notes regarding that

1:21:06 ↗ before the meeting and during the

1:21:07 ↗ meeting we might make other notes on the

1:21:09 ↗ packet or keep other notes

1:21:12 ↗ and i think the guidance was that we

1:21:14 ↗ retain the notes

1:21:16 ↗ for as long as we believe that we need

1:21:19 ↗ them

1:21:20 ↗ in our discretion certainly we would

1:21:22 ↗ keep them probably through a decision

1:21:24 ↗ but do you have any guidance or criteria

1:21:26 ↗ on how long we should

1:21:28 ↗ keep our notes anything to help with

1:21:30 ↗ that decision

1:21:31 ↗ i can speak to your general agenda items

1:21:34 ↗ um our attorney may have some other

1:21:37 ↗ advice on

1:21:38 ↗ items that um

1:21:42 ↗ uh are more of the appearance of

1:21:45 ↗ fairness or quasi but

1:21:46 ↗ um on advice from the state and the

1:21:50 ↗ uh records for boards and commission

1:21:52 ↗ members

1:21:53 ↗ they can keep notes and dispose of notes

1:21:57 ↗ once they are no longer of value

1:21:59 ↗ or of service to them so if you are in

1:22:02 ↗ the habit of routinely disposing of

1:22:04 ↗ those

1:22:05 ↗ that's fine however if you have them in

1:22:07 ↗ your possession

1:22:08 ↗ and they relate to an active public

1:22:11 ↗ records request

1:22:13 ↗ you will need to work with me to

1:22:14 ↗ transfer those to the city

1:22:19 ↗ the only thing i'd add is i think it's a

1:22:20 ↗ bit of an open

1:22:22 ↗ question as to how long you should

1:22:24 ↗ should keep them

1:22:26 ↗ whether you should keep them i certainly

1:22:28 ↗ think you should keep them through the

1:22:30 ↗ decision

1:22:31 ↗ that you make and i would recommend

1:22:34 ↗ keeping them through the

1:22:36 ↗ [Music]

1:22:37 ↗ through the appeal period which again is

1:22:40 ↗ 21 days

1:22:41 ↗ after the decision but then at that

1:22:44 ↗ point if there's been no appeal

1:22:46 ↗ and no no court proceeding pending

1:22:50 ↗ i think it's perfectly fine to get rid

1:22:52 ↗ of them at that point

1:22:53 ↗ okay so decision plus 21 days if no depe

1:22:57 ↗ then that's fine

1:22:58 ↗ yeah great thank you

1:23:03 ↗ anyone else

1:23:09 ↗ okay i will share my content

1:23:14 ↗ and um

1:23:22 ↗ i just have a few slides some of these

1:23:24 ↗ will look familiar

1:23:26 ↗ um just am more

1:23:29 ↗ wanting to prepare commissioners

1:23:33 ↗ for some of the things that are

1:23:36 ↗ coming up this year

1:23:47 ↗ so um partly i wanted to just touch on

1:23:51 ↗ organizational structure

1:23:53 ↗ um it relates to some of the things that

1:23:55 ↗ we'll be talking about tonight

1:23:58 ↗ and that you'll be looking at in the

1:23:59 ↗ future um

1:24:01 ↗ both staff um and the development

1:24:05 ↗ commission

1:24:05 ↗ may make decisions and recommendations

1:24:09 ↗ so excuse me uh clerk speaking

1:24:12 ↗ if i'm sorry i don't have control to

1:24:15 ↗ monitor the

1:24:16 ↗ mics but other is an open mic that's

1:24:18 ↗ causing some feedback

1:24:21 ↗ so if you um are not speaking at this

1:24:23 ↗ time if you can please mute

1:24:26 ↗ perfect thank you

1:24:30 ↗ thank you so

1:24:34 ↗ staff make decisions and recommendations

1:24:36 ↗ sometimes our recommendations go

1:24:38 ↗ directly to city council that's

1:24:40 ↗ typically

1:24:41 ↗ related to legislative matters

1:24:44 ↗ other times we are making and more

1:24:46 ↗ commonly for the current planners making

1:24:49 ↗ recommendations to the development

1:24:50 ↗ commission

1:24:52 ↗ likewise commissioners make decisions

1:24:54 ↗ and sometimes you're making

1:24:56 ↗ recommendations to counsel

1:24:58 ↗ and we'll talk a little bit about when

1:25:01 ↗ that occurs

1:25:05 ↗ i'm going to go through some permits and

1:25:08 ↗ processes

1:25:09 ↗ and and then you're welcome to ask

1:25:11 ↗ questions at any time

1:25:13 ↗ but there'll be some things to discuss

1:25:15 ↗ board band as well

1:25:18 ↗ so i'm not tonight covering every kind

1:25:21 ↗ of permit that

1:25:22 ↗ you cover but these are

1:25:26 ↗ three things that we're anticipating

1:25:28 ↗ this year

1:25:30 ↗ one is site development permits or sdps

1:25:34 ↗ that is a level three permit it

1:25:38 ↗ becomes a level three permit depending

1:25:41 ↗ on the size of the property

1:25:43 ↗ the size of the building and or the

1:25:46 ↗ street that it's located on

1:25:47 ↗ and typically you're the decision maker

1:25:50 ↗ and it is a quasi-judicial permit

1:25:53 ↗ another kind of permit that comes to you

1:25:55 ↗ is a master site plan

1:25:58 ↗ it's a level five it's triggered

1:26:01 ↗ outside of central issaquah on sites

1:26:03 ↗ greater than 15 acres

1:26:07 ↗ generally master site plans are more

1:26:09 ↗ conceptual they may be

1:26:11 ↗ a phased plan where certain elements are

1:26:15 ↗ going to be built out

1:26:16 ↗ over time and you make a recommendation

1:26:20 ↗ to counsel

1:26:21 ↗ and those are also quasi-judicial

1:26:25 ↗ administrative site development permits

1:26:27 ↗ are typically

1:26:29 ↗ staff decisions however

1:26:32 ↗ as i'll talk about in a minute they can

1:26:34 ↗ come to the council

1:26:36 ↗ and if they mean the council or the

1:26:38 ↗ commission and

1:26:39 ↗ if they do they they would also be

1:26:41 ↗ quasi-judicial

1:26:43 ↗ the two processes that

1:26:46 ↗ relate to this are consolidation of

1:26:49 ↗ permits

1:26:51 ↗ and forwarding to a higher level

1:26:54 ↗ an applicant can submit multiple permits

1:26:57 ↗ at the same time and after

1:26:59 ↗ ask to have them consolidated under a

1:27:03 ↗ single hearing

1:27:04 ↗ and a single process most commonly

1:27:07 ↗ that is a master site plan and a site

1:27:10 ↗ development permit that get consolidated

1:27:12 ↗ and come to the commission this is

1:27:14 ↗ because a master site plan as i said is

1:27:16 ↗ more conceptual

1:27:18 ↗ you're still required to do an sdp or

1:27:21 ↗ site development permit

1:27:23 ↗ to implement the master site plan so we

1:27:26 ↗ frequently get

1:27:27 ↗ the more detailed site development

1:27:29 ↗ permit at the same time that an

1:27:31 ↗ applicant

1:27:32 ↗ applicant is submitting a master site

1:27:33 ↗ plan and they

1:27:35 ↗ an applicant can ask consolidate those

1:27:38 ↗ two kinds of permits

1:27:40 ↗ and then when you've consolidated a

1:27:42 ↗ permit it goes to the

1:27:44 ↗ decision maker of the highest level so

1:27:47 ↗ even though

1:27:48 ↗ you are the decision maker for a site

1:27:50 ↗ development permit if it's consolidated

1:27:53 ↗ with a master site plan the

1:27:56 ↗ decision maker becomes the council

1:28:00 ↗ the other process that can come into

1:28:02 ↗ play

1:28:03 ↗ and that we're anticipating this year is

1:28:06 ↗ when a permit is forwarded

1:28:10 ↗ to a higher level of review there are

1:28:12 ↗ typically criteria

1:28:14 ↗ there are criteria in the code in

1:28:17 ↗ general and then sometimes there are

1:28:19 ↗ specific ones around certain kinds of

1:28:20 ↗ processes

1:28:22 ↗ um an example that you all have had

1:28:25 ↗ um was a i think an amendment

1:28:29 ↗ to a master site plan and

1:28:33 ↗ staff could make the decision but

1:28:36 ↗ it was also listed in code that that

1:28:38 ↗ could be forwarded to the development

1:28:40 ↗ commission

1:28:41 ↗ and that in fact was what staff chose to

1:28:43 ↗ do

1:28:45 ↗ so an administrative site development

1:28:47 ↗ perm administrative adjustment of

1:28:49 ↗ standards

1:28:50 ↗ which is typically decided by staff

1:28:52 ↗ could be

1:28:53 ↗ forwarded to the development commission

1:28:56 ↗ and or consolidated

1:28:58 ↗ with other permits and then come to

1:29:00 ↗ either the commission

1:29:01 ↗ or the council for a decision that was a

1:29:04 ↗ mouthful does anyone have any questions

1:29:07 ↗ about this before i move on

1:29:17 ↗ so our review process you've seen this

1:29:20 ↗ before

1:29:20 ↗ but because we've gone through some of

1:29:22 ↗ these pieces i just want to touch on

1:29:24 ↗ this again

1:29:25 ↗ we start with an informal phase which

1:29:28 ↗ may be an

1:29:29 ↗ introduction to the applicant between

1:29:32 ↗ the city and the applicant

1:29:34 ↗ and a collaboration meeting which very

1:29:36 ↗ informal discussion of the kinds of

1:29:39 ↗ plans and making sure that they're

1:29:40 ↗ using the right codes then we get into

1:29:44 ↗ the more structured reviews

1:29:46 ↗ one of those is what we call a pre-app

1:29:48 ↗ meeting or a pre-application meeting

1:29:50 ↗ there's a set of submittal requirements

1:29:52 ↗ again it is between

1:29:54 ↗ staff and the applicant

1:29:58 ↗ following that we have a sort of formal

1:30:01 ↗ submittal

1:30:02 ↗ of the full land use permit in this case

1:30:05 ↗ we're talking about

1:30:06 ↗ site development or and or master site

1:30:09 ↗ plans

1:30:10 ↗ at which time staff would prepare a

1:30:12 ↗ staff report

1:30:14 ↗ um then these then this is kind of the

1:30:18 ↗ process

1:30:19 ↗ in which you're probably the most

1:30:21 ↗ familiar a staff report would be

1:30:23 ↗ prepared

1:30:24 ↗ sent to the development commission a

1:30:28 ↗ notice of decision or notice of

1:30:30 ↗ recommendation

1:30:32 ↗ would be issued if it was a

1:30:34 ↗ recommendation it would go to the

1:30:36 ↗ council

1:30:37 ↗ and then as our city attorney described

1:30:40 ↗ that might be

1:30:41 ↗ appealed once the land use

1:30:44 ↗ process has run its course we

1:30:48 ↗ get into the construction permits

1:30:50 ↗ construction

1:30:51 ↗ inspection and occupancy

1:30:54 ↗ so this formals the middle

1:30:58 ↗ of the permit and the preparation of a

1:31:00 ↗ staff report

1:31:01 ↗ are the immediate actions that then lead

1:31:04 ↗ to the development commission the sort

1:31:07 ↗ of key

1:31:08 ↗ steps related to the development

1:31:09 ↗ commission's work

1:31:11 ↗ reviewing the staff report holding your

1:31:14 ↗ meetings

1:31:14 ↗ and issuing your decision or

1:31:18 ↗ recommendation

1:31:22 ↗ so again i'm going to stop

1:31:25 ↗ that's the main things i wanted to

1:31:27 ↗ describe about

1:31:29 ↗ the development commission's process

1:31:33 ↗ any questions

1:31:36 ↗ uh just a quick comment so this is uh

1:31:40 ↗ mike brennan

1:31:41 ↗ the as far as the public

1:31:44 ↗ is concerned they're provided a notice

1:31:48 ↗ when the application is submitted so

1:31:50 ↗ they don't only get

1:31:51 ↗ the notice about the hearing the public

1:31:53 ↗ hearing that we'll be holding at the

1:31:54 ↗ commission but they know well in advance

1:31:56 ↗ that an application has been submitted

1:31:57 ↗ to the city for a project

1:31:59 ↗ that's a great point and we've been

1:32:02 ↗ talking about this

1:32:03 ↗ a lot i think public notice is something

1:32:06 ↗ that potentially will change

1:32:08 ↗ under title 18 because there is a lot of

1:32:12 ↗ public interest in we want to make sure

1:32:13 ↗ people are aware of the project for the

1:32:16 ↗ kinds of things that come to you

1:32:20 ↗ we are doing a notice of application

1:32:25 ↗ which goes to property owners within a

1:32:28 ↗ certain distance

1:32:30 ↗ we are then when it gets closer to the

1:32:33 ↗ public hearing

1:32:34 ↗ we are posting the site with a board so

1:32:37 ↗ that people

1:32:38 ↗ who um don't live within that distance

1:32:42 ↗ or who just are interested in the area

1:32:46 ↗ are aware of it we have to

1:32:50 ↗ advertise in the newspaper it's it's

1:32:52 ↗ kind of the accepted

1:32:54 ↗ method even though it seems kind of

1:32:56 ↗ arcane

1:32:58 ↗ we are notifying any parties of record

1:33:01 ↗ so if people have commented somewhere

1:33:03 ↗ in the process we let them know that

1:33:06 ↗ this is taking the next step we also

1:33:10 ↗ have what we call an active projects map

1:33:13 ↗ or active projects list i'll show you

1:33:15 ↗ this

1:33:16 ↗ in a minute in terms of resources once

1:33:19 ↗ we receive

1:33:20 ↗ a pre-application meeting packet

1:33:24 ↗ we begin posting those materials

1:33:28 ↗ to the active projects map or list

1:33:31 ↗ because we want people to be aware of

1:33:34 ↗ what's happening

1:33:35 ↗ during this land use process because

1:33:37 ↗ that's really the time for the public to

1:33:39 ↗ be engaged

1:33:40 ↗ to comment to give us their feedback and

1:33:44 ↗ to let the applicant know what their

1:33:46 ↗ thoughts and concerns are

1:33:53 ↗ any more questions on this phase

1:34:01 ↗ so a couple of things to look ahead to

1:34:04 ↗ and then i'll go through some resources

1:34:09 ↗ the title 18 development commissioner

1:34:12 ↗ mission is considered an essential

1:34:14 ↗ stakeholder

1:34:17 ↗ we have divided all the chapters of

1:34:20 ↗ title 18 which is the language code

1:34:23 ↗ into six buckets

1:34:26 ↗ um and most of those

1:34:30 ↗ are um being

1:34:33 ↗ reviewed and coordinated with

1:34:37 ↗ a commission who may have more

1:34:39 ↗ information and more background

1:34:42 ↗ so the environmental board and ppc are

1:34:45 ↗ working

1:34:46 ↗ with one bucket the parks board

1:34:49 ↗ and ppc are working with another bucket

1:34:52 ↗ development commission has three buckets

1:34:55 ↗ that we're

1:34:56 ↗ in wanting to engage you all in one is

1:34:59 ↗ zoning

1:35:00 ↗ and uses another is building design

1:35:03 ↗ and third is development standards we

1:35:06 ↗ see

1:35:06 ↗ each of these having three sort of

1:35:08 ↗ phases

1:35:09 ↗ the first is a gap analysis and policy

1:35:12 ↗ and context discussion

1:35:15 ↗ we prepare a sort of background

1:35:18 ↗ memo on each of the chapters that will

1:35:22 ↗ be

1:35:22 ↗ before ppc and their partner commission

1:35:27 ↗ um and discuss that and pose certain

1:35:30 ↗ questions that we

1:35:32 ↗ see as being important things to get

1:35:35 ↗ feedback on before we even begin

1:35:38 ↗ preparing drafts then second

1:35:41 ↗ we will prepare a discussion draft this

1:35:43 ↗ is really where we want to engage

1:35:46 ↗ both commissions and the public

1:35:49 ↗ on the the draft that we

1:35:52 ↗ prepared in response to

1:35:55 ↗ that gap analysis and policy document

1:35:59 ↗ and really get a draft into really solid

1:36:03 ↗ shape

1:36:03 ↗ based on all the public comment that

1:36:06 ↗ we've heard

1:36:07 ↗ then the third step which will just be

1:36:09 ↗ with ppc

1:36:11 ↗ is a hearing draft so that's why this

1:36:13 ↗ struck out on here

1:36:16 ↗ dc would not be a part of that hearing

1:36:18 ↗ draft

1:36:20 ↗ because we're hoping that all the work

1:36:22 ↗ that you've done in the first

1:36:24 ↗ two meetings will really build

1:36:27 ↗ that knowledge base for ppc to then hold

1:36:30 ↗ the hearing

1:36:32 ↗ and we're anticipating that the gap

1:36:35 ↗ analysis work

1:36:37 ↗ for these three buckets will be

1:36:38 ↗ happening one

1:36:40 ↗ each month this fall

1:36:45 ↗ we are anticipating

1:36:48 ↗ upcoming we have i'm aware of three

1:36:51 ↗ permits

1:36:52 ↗ that are in that would be coming to the

1:36:54 ↗ development commission

1:36:56 ↗ one we are tentatively scheduled in

1:36:59 ↗ september

1:37:00 ↗ which is the providence height master

1:37:03 ↗ site plan and site development permit

1:37:05 ↗ and we have a second potential meeting

1:37:08 ↗ in case

1:37:10 ↗ we need more than one evening to work

1:37:12 ↗ our way through that

1:37:15 ↗ this would be as i described more

1:37:17 ↗ generically

1:37:18 ↗ you making a recommendation to the

1:37:20 ↗ council

1:37:22 ↗ and then the third thing is our

1:37:25 ↗ communications to the commission

1:37:28 ↗ the city is providing a little more

1:37:29 ↗ consistent structure across

1:37:31 ↗ all of the commissions and boards so one

1:37:34 ↗ of the things that you

1:37:36 ↗ are now seeing in your packet i don't

1:37:37 ↗ know if you've actually seen it but i

1:37:39 ↗ want to draw your attention to it

1:37:42 ↗ is a calendar of the year and

1:37:45 ↗ when what what meetings we see coming up

1:37:49 ↗ what meetings you may be interested in

1:37:51 ↗ topics that have not been scheduled like

1:37:54 ↗ these other permits that we know have

1:37:55 ↗ been submitted

1:37:57 ↗ but we haven't scheduled when they're

1:37:58 ↗ coming to the

1:38:00 ↗ development commission and because we

1:38:03 ↗ don't necessarily meet with you

1:38:04 ↗ every month um i um

1:38:08 ↗ have a tickler on my calendar to at the

1:38:10 ↗ beginning

1:38:11 ↗ of the month send you an email that's

1:38:13 ↗ kind of like that calendar that would be

1:38:15 ↗ a summary

1:38:16 ↗ if we don't have meetings in a month i

1:38:18 ↗ want to give you an

1:38:19 ↗ update towards the beginning of the

1:38:20 ↗ month so i'm interested

1:38:24 ↗ if those if you have any feedback for me

1:38:27 ↗ on the emails and or the calendar that

1:38:30 ↗ we've been sending

1:38:32 ↗ how whether those are helpful whether

1:38:35 ↗ you have any suggestions

1:38:37 ↗ on how they could better

1:38:40 ↗ support your work

1:38:48 ↗ i'll just this is uh mike brennan again

1:38:50 ↗ real quick comment so

1:38:51 ↗ i actually really appreciate the emails

1:38:54 ↗ um i think the

1:38:55 ↗ information provided is um very clear

1:38:58 ↗ and as far as heads up as far as when

1:39:01 ↗ we're having meetings or

1:39:02 ↗ if they're going to be canceled because

1:39:04 ↗ we all you know

1:39:05 ↗ these days have pretty busy schedules so

1:39:07 ↗ it's nice to know in advance

1:39:10 ↗ in case we have something else we're

1:39:11 ↗ trying to balance commission meetings

1:39:12 ↗ with

1:39:13 ↗ so um i i really appreciate the emails

1:39:16 ↗ that that you've been sending out

1:39:18 ↗ um giving us heads up on different

1:39:19 ↗ things so uh thanks for that

1:39:23 ↗ and and just so you know that we will

1:39:25 ↗ try and list specific dates

1:39:27 ↗ of we're showing all your meanings

1:39:29 ↗ through the year and if we have

1:39:30 ↗ something tentatively scheduled

1:39:32 ↗ that calendar that comes in your packet

1:39:34 ↗ will identify that

1:39:36 ↗ we have um we're pretty close to

1:39:39 ↗ finalizing the schedule

1:39:41 ↗ for the title 18 work and so i will try

1:39:44 ↗ and get those dates out

1:39:45 ↗ potentially even sending placeholder

1:39:47 ↗ media

1:39:49 ↗ calendars invites i will try and not

1:39:52 ↗ make them team

1:39:53 ↗ meetings like i did tonight that was in

1:39:55 ↗ oopsie

1:39:56 ↗ but just have a generic placeholder and

1:39:59 ↗ hopefully that will help you

1:40:01 ↗ you know since some of these are several

1:40:03 ↗ months in advance

1:40:05 ↗ i i know it's hard to keep track of all

1:40:07 ↗ of that and want to try and help get

1:40:08 ↗ them

1:40:09 ↗ on your calendar so you're aware because

1:40:12 ↗ some of these

1:40:13 ↗ since these are with the planning policy

1:40:15 ↗ commission

1:40:16 ↗ these will be on thursdays so these are

1:40:18 ↗ not going to be

1:40:19 ↗ on your regular commission night so

1:40:22 ↗ that's another reason to try and get

1:40:24 ↗ these

1:40:24 ↗ out early vinnie did you have something

1:40:28 ↗ you wanted to add

1:40:30 ↗ um yeah yeah lucy i just wanted to um

1:40:33 ↗ good evening

1:40:34 ↗ commissioners um thank you for your time

1:40:36 ↗ and all of this

1:40:37 ↗ um very good questions and as lucy's uh

1:40:41 ↗ telling you the schedule i think our

1:40:43 ↗ goal is to

1:40:44 ↗ um finalize those dates um this week and

1:40:47 ↗ hopefully get you get those dates

1:40:49 ↗ on your calendar but i just wanted to

1:40:52 ↗ kind of follow up on one of the

1:40:53 ↗ questions

1:40:54 ↗ uh chair brennan had about notice uh

1:40:57 ↗ boards uh being posted and how close we

1:41:01 ↗ do it to the hearing

1:41:03 ↗ versus what if are we doing them early

1:41:05 ↗ in the in the process

1:41:06 ↗ so i think as lucy said we are mailing

1:41:09 ↗ uh

1:41:09 ↗ folks earlier as a notice of application

1:41:12 ↗ however i think

1:41:13 ↗ what we've heard what i've heard from

1:41:14 ↗ the community members is that we're

1:41:16 ↗ not posting the board until close to the

1:41:19 ↗ hearing

1:41:20 ↗ so i think the direction to our staff is

1:41:23 ↗ to start posting those

1:41:24 ↗ early even though our code may uh

1:41:27 ↗ require it

1:41:28 ↗ later uh just so that we get the

1:41:31 ↗ information

1:41:32 ↗ from the community early in the process

1:41:33 ↗ so it's not coming as a surprise

1:41:36 ↗ later to adjacent property owners

1:41:40 ↗ and of course we'll clean all of this up

1:41:41 ↗ in our title 18 code update

1:41:44 ↗ update but for now i think we will start

1:41:46 ↗ posting the boards

1:41:48 ↗ also at the time we're giving the notice

1:41:50 ↗ of application

1:41:51 ↗ so i just wanted to kind of give a

1:41:53 ↗ little bit of background on that

1:41:54 ↗ and uh and the three and then now

1:41:58 ↗ talking about the title 18 code update i

1:42:00 ↗ just wanted to kind of make it clear

1:42:01 ↗ that

1:42:02 ↗ um the gaps analysis the discussion

1:42:05 ↗ draft

1:42:06 ↗ the hearing draft is what we're calling

1:42:08 ↗ it as three different series of

1:42:10 ↗ you know to break up the whole process

1:42:14 ↗ and it will include um a lot of work

1:42:17 ↗ on you know there are three meetings

1:42:20 ↗ that we have

1:42:20 ↗ uh jointly with the dc

1:42:24 ↗ and ppc for the six series total

1:42:30 ↗ additional time for you but i think i

1:42:33 ↗ understand from lucy that um

1:42:35 ↗ those dates i think we're trying to

1:42:36 ↗ match up some of those dates that are

1:42:38 ↗ actually on your calendar so

1:42:39 ↗ you know those are reserved uh by

1:42:42 ↗ changing them on ppc's calendar but we

1:42:43 ↗ hope to finalize some of those dates and

1:42:45 ↗ put them on your calendar in the

1:42:47 ↗ um by next week

1:42:50 ↗ that's all i have to add lucy thank you

1:42:53 ↗ thank you

1:42:54 ↗ any questions

1:42:58 ↗ i have a question on um schedule this is

1:43:02 ↗ patty dillon um so

1:43:05 ↗ looking at this look ahead it looks like

1:43:07 ↗ um

1:43:08 ↗ you're not anticipating anything else

1:43:11 ↗ over this summer

1:43:12 ↗ is that correct i believe so

1:43:16 ↗ um now um there are as i mentioned

1:43:20 ↗ there are two site development permits

1:43:24 ↗ that are in and i'm just not sure of the

1:43:27 ↗ timing of those

1:43:28 ↗ um the lead time is not quite as much as

1:43:31 ↗ it is

1:43:32 ↗ for um let's say a

1:43:35 ↗ master site plan and site development

1:43:37 ↗ permit

1:43:39 ↗ and i will point out that september 1st

1:43:44 ↗ which is our tentative date is the

1:43:46 ↗ wednesday before

1:43:47 ↗ labor day i was a little surprised when

1:43:49 ↗ i realized that so

1:43:51 ↗ it will feel like summer but it has a

1:43:54 ↗ september

1:43:55 ↗ date so we will keep you posted

1:43:59 ↗ and i will check

1:44:02 ↗ into the timing of those other two

1:44:07 ↗ permits just to find out what we know

1:44:10 ↗ about them

1:44:11 ↗ because i can appreciate we all may

1:44:14 ↗ actually start traveling this summer and

1:44:16 ↗ it would be good to know

1:44:17 ↗ if something's going to be on our

1:44:20 ↗ schedule

1:44:24 ↗ thanks you bet

1:44:30 ↗ anything else

1:44:35 ↗ okay i'm going to um just go through

1:44:38 ↗ some resources you've seen this before

1:44:42 ↗ um but i i'd like to emphasize this

1:44:44 ↗ because i just want you to know some of

1:44:46 ↗ the resources that are available to you

1:44:49 ↗ on our website the image on the

1:44:52 ↗ left is our home page

1:44:56 ↗ you can always sign up for the notify me

1:44:59 ↗ if you click on this there are different

1:45:02 ↗ topical

1:45:05 ↗ lists that communications use to send

1:45:08 ↗ things out

1:45:09 ↗ and so that's a good way to just know

1:45:11 ↗ about

1:45:12 ↗ things that are happening in the

1:45:13 ↗ community if you're trying to find

1:45:15 ↗ something

1:45:16 ↗ on our web page the search function i

1:45:19 ↗ hear is quite good

1:45:20 ↗ i know i used it occasionally because i

1:45:22 ↗ can't remember where something is

1:45:24 ↗ so that's another option

1:45:28 ↗ you've heard me talk about the active

1:45:30 ↗ projects map

1:45:31 ↗ um that this is an example of what that

1:45:34 ↗ looks like

1:45:35 ↗ um things that are in orange are in

1:45:38 ↗ review

1:45:39 ↗ things that are in gray are uh

1:45:42 ↗ under construction and so

1:45:45 ↗ um if you are in looking at a

1:45:49 ↗ or anticipating a quasi-judicial um

1:45:53 ↗ permit review please don't go look here

1:45:56 ↗ um but if you're curious about your

1:45:57 ↗ community

1:45:58 ↗ or you uh know want to know what's

1:46:02 ↗ happening in a neighborhood

1:46:04 ↗ for instance where you live um you know

1:46:07 ↗ this is a good resource

1:46:11 ↗ um to get to our code standards

1:46:14 ↗ plans in the municipal code

1:46:17 ↗ you would go to our home page

1:46:21 ↗ hover over your government and then

1:46:23 ↗ click on

1:46:24 ↗ either of these two this is what the

1:46:27 ↗ pages look like

1:46:30 ↗ this has all kinds of documents

1:46:33 ↗ that are available on our website the

1:46:36 ↗ lower

1:46:37 ↗ page will take you to our municipal code

1:46:39 ↗ or imc

1:46:41 ↗ you guys will now be i'm sure overly

1:46:44 ↗ well versed in the different titles

1:46:47 ↗ that are in the imc through your work on

1:46:50 ↗ title 18.

1:46:55 ↗ um when you if you do look at our

1:46:57 ↗ municipal code

1:46:58 ↗ um as i mentioned it is the land use

1:47:01 ↗ code

1:47:01 ↗ is title 18. it is basically equivalent

1:47:05 ↗ to every single other title

1:47:07 ↗ in the imc so

1:47:10 ↗ quite a bit of material there these are

1:47:12 ↗ all the different

1:47:14 ↗ existing chapters one that you might be

1:47:17 ↗ interested in

1:47:18 ↗ is the zoning code it lists the allowed

1:47:20 ↗ uses but you can click on any of these

1:47:23 ↗ and see

1:47:27 ↗ you know what materials are in there the

1:47:29 ↗ other point i would make is

1:47:32 ↗ 1819 is a treasure trove of lots and

1:47:36 ↗ lots of individualized standards that we

1:47:38 ↗ are going to

1:47:39 ↗ pull apart in the right place as part of

1:47:42 ↗ the title 18

1:47:43 ↗ update but the old town standards

1:47:46 ↗ the central issaquah standards the

1:47:48 ↗ issaquah highlands and

1:47:50 ↗ talus replacement regulations are all

1:47:53 ↗ in 1819 so it is chock-a-block with

1:47:56 ↗ information

1:48:01 ↗ uh and many of those codes and standards

1:48:05 ↗ that i

1:48:05 ↗ showed you that you can get to directly

1:48:07 ↗ from our

1:48:09 ↗ home page are stored in what is called

1:48:13 ↗ our document center

1:48:15 ↗ it used to be available from our home

1:48:18 ↗ page

1:48:19 ↗ it is still accessible using this

1:48:22 ↗ url but if you want if you're looking

1:48:27 ↗ for something you can always

1:48:29 ↗ enter the isawa.gov

1:48:33 ↗ document center and then expand various

1:48:36 ↗ sections

1:48:38 ↗ to find the particular thing you're

1:48:40 ↗ looking for

1:48:45 ↗ if you're interested in how long your

1:48:47 ↗ term lasts

1:48:50 ↗ you don't have your packet and you're

1:48:52 ↗ interested in

1:48:54 ↗ accessing it online or you want to find

1:48:57 ↗ some archived material

1:48:59 ↗ again if you hover from our home page

1:49:01 ↗ over your government

1:49:03 ↗ and go to boards and commissions then

1:49:05 ↗ click on development

1:49:07 ↗ there's an immediate email link to me

1:49:11 ↗ you can see this is a little outdated

1:49:14 ↗ but

1:49:15 ↗ these are were the regular members last

1:49:18 ↗ year

1:49:19 ↗ and the alternate members and you can

1:49:22 ↗ also see your terms

1:49:24 ↗ it lists our regular meeting schedules

1:49:27 ↗ when and where those are and as i

1:49:30 ↗ mentioned it also has a link to our

1:49:31 ↗ archive center where you can get to

1:49:33 ↗ agendas minutes and packets

1:49:36 ↗ and maybe even videos

1:49:41 ↗ and that's the end of what i wanted to

1:49:47 ↗ share with you any questions on

1:49:54 ↗ resources

1:49:56 ↗ um and by the way um those

1:49:59 ↗ resource uh you may remember that last

1:50:02 ↗ november

1:50:02 ↗ uh you all uh asked if i would share the

1:50:06 ↗ presentation

1:50:07 ↗ and i think i forwarded that to you in

1:50:09 ↗ the last couple of days

1:50:11 ↗ so you have much of this information in

1:50:15 ↗ case you need it

1:50:16 ↗ as a resource to your resources

1:50:20 ↗ and that's it great great

1:50:24 ↗ thanks lucy and thanks um miss edgar's

1:50:27 ↗ uh mr haney for

1:50:28 ↗ the information very helpful even though

1:50:31 ↗ for some of us it's a refresher

1:50:33 ↗ um but we always take away something at

1:50:35 ↗ least i do from these

1:50:37 ↗ these training so really appreciate

1:50:39 ↗ appreciate the

1:50:40 ↗ really well um put together presentation

1:50:43 ↗ material so thanks but and

1:50:45 ↗ as saying um lucy for always

1:50:49 ↗ the great information that you provide

1:50:50 ↗ to the commission so we have a couple

1:50:52 ↗ other things on the agenda i'm not quite

1:50:54 ↗ sure if we have any

1:50:55 ↗ uh more grounding over here but reports

1:50:57 ↗ or updates

1:50:58 ↗ i think you kind of just covered most of

1:51:00 ↗ that okay

1:51:02 ↗ i covered all of that um that i would

1:51:04 ↗ have thank you

1:51:05 ↗ and then we also have on our agenda

1:51:06 ↗ tonight an opportunity for public

1:51:08 ↗ comment and since that was published

1:51:10 ↗ i do want to give anybody who is um

1:51:13 ↗ attending the meeting this virtual

1:51:14 ↗ meeting

1:51:15 ↗ that wants to comment this evening an

1:51:17 ↗ opportunity to do that

1:51:18 ↗ i don't know if we have anybody on the

1:51:20 ↗ call

1:51:21 ↗ we do um uh connie marsh has

1:51:24 ↗ asked to make public comment and she has

1:51:27 ↗ been elevated

1:51:28 ↗ uh to be a panelist um ms marsh feel

1:51:31 ↗ free to

1:51:32 ↗ unmute and turn your camera on

1:51:36 ↗ hey i'm connie marsh i live up on squawk

1:51:38 ↗ and

1:51:39 ↗ yes i have public comment thank you for

1:51:42 ↗ asking

1:51:43 ↗ so this is actually the broadest

1:51:47 ↗ sort of presentation i've seen on the

1:51:50 ↗ quasi-judicial so i

1:51:51 ↗ and and all the rest of it so i

1:51:53 ↗ appreciate that

1:51:54 ↗ but i have a different perspective

1:51:56 ↗ because i am

1:51:58 ↗ you know in attendance as the public

1:52:01 ↗ and i am the one trying to negotiate the

1:52:04 ↗ process

1:52:05 ↗ that you all are making decisions on

1:52:08 ↗ and as many of you know i'm always

1:52:11 ↗ trying to

1:52:12 ↗ to to get a little more so this is

1:52:17 ↗ after many years of hearing this and

1:52:19 ↗ having the questions

1:52:20 ↗ asked and maybe not answered or

1:52:22 ↗ contradictory answers this is my quick

1:52:25 ↗ but long list um

1:52:29 ↗ i have heard that you aren't supposed to

1:52:31 ↗ discuss the quasi-judicial decisions

1:52:35 ↗ even after the decisions were made

1:52:38 ↗ i have heard that in prior meetings this

1:52:41 ↗ meeting seemed

1:52:42 ↗ maybe to be a little bit different on

1:52:45 ↗ that topic as you can get rid of your

1:52:47 ↗ notes

1:52:48 ↗ after your 21 days after the decision

1:52:51 ↗ can you actually then talk about your

1:52:53 ↗ decision after the decision

1:52:56 ↗ and um the process

1:52:59 ↗ as far as i can understand it can be

1:53:01 ↗ discussed

1:53:02 ↗ just not the substance

1:53:05 ↗ of it so

1:53:08 ↗ if you answer process questions on like

1:53:12 ↗ how does this

1:53:13 ↗ work how do i get to a meeting you can

1:53:15 ↗ answer those questions

1:53:17 ↗ and somebody can can contradict me if

1:53:20 ↗ i'm wrong

1:53:22 ↗ and i'm going to talk to you a little

1:53:24 ↗ bit about some of the issues that i had

1:53:26 ↗ because i

1:53:26 ↗ had the experience of having an appeal

1:53:29 ↗ and

1:53:29 ↗ i found that um

1:53:33 ↗ you that the the record

1:53:36 ↗ is not as seamless as one would expect

1:53:40 ↗ you would think that that uh the record

1:53:44 ↗ would be everything that everybody had

1:53:46 ↗ sent in

1:53:48 ↗ and in my experience during the appeal

1:53:50 ↗ that was

1:53:51 ↗ that that was not the case the finding

1:53:54 ↗ out what people

1:53:56 ↗ had had presented in letters

1:53:59 ↗ was awkwardly hard and probably cost me

1:54:02 ↗ ten thousand dollars

1:54:04 ↗ so i would like to ensure

1:54:07 ↗ that this the what is

1:54:10 ↗ on the record is very clear and i

1:54:13 ↗ haven't figured out how to do that so

1:54:15 ↗ i'm asking the development commission

1:54:17 ↗ to actually look at

1:54:21 ↗ the things that are included in the

1:54:23 ↗ record

1:54:24 ↗ in the staff reports because it's hard

1:54:27 ↗ to understand whether the things that

1:54:29 ↗ are on the active projects list

1:54:31 ↗ and the active projects map are part

1:54:34 ↗ of the record and some of the language

1:54:37 ↗ that seems to be boilerplate

1:54:39 ↗ does refer to the active projects list

1:54:41 ↗ and some

1:54:42 ↗ does not and it created confusion

1:54:46 ↗ and so somewhere somehow it needs to

1:54:50 ↗ there needs to be a line drawn as to

1:54:52 ↗ what the record

1:54:53 ↗ is if we're providing so much

1:54:55 ↗ information in other places on the

1:54:57 ↗ website for example

1:54:59 ↗ is that now part of the record

1:55:02 ↗ and that was not clarified here

1:55:05 ↗ and if jim haney is not asleep there

1:55:08 ↗ he's going to remember that

1:55:10 ↗ pain that we had on that conversation

1:55:13 ↗ so um the

1:55:18 ↗ the uh

1:55:21 ↗ information is not just for appeals

1:55:24 ↗ my understanding it's the information

1:55:27 ↗ that you provide

1:55:28 ↗ during this record is actually what they

1:55:31 ↗ use

1:55:32 ↗ to implement the project and i'm going

1:55:35 ↗ to use an example

1:55:37 ↗ of the balconies on the gateway project

1:55:41 ↗ i went back and i looked at the

1:55:42 ↗ photographs of what that gateway

1:55:45 ↗ project not gateway senior but gateway

1:55:47 ↗ was

1:55:48 ↗ was looked like in the pictures that

1:55:50 ↗ were presented at development commission

1:55:52 ↗ and there was like five times the number

1:55:55 ↗ of balconies

1:55:56 ↗ and it created a sort of a balanced

1:55:58 ↗ coherent effect

1:56:00 ↗ from the freeway and right now it looks

1:56:02 ↗ just sort of weird there's this

1:56:04 ↗ periodic balconies peppering the

1:56:07 ↗ building

1:56:07 ↗ and so i asked the question well why

1:56:10 ↗ doesn't the development look like the

1:56:12 ↗ pictures

1:56:13 ↗ and the answer as i recall it

1:56:15 ↗ paraphrasing was

1:56:16 ↗ that there was no reference to those

1:56:20 ↗ pictures during the development

1:56:22 ↗ commission

1:56:23 ↗ there was no statement or or

1:56:26 ↗ condition requiring those balconies

1:56:29 ↗ so even though they were in the pictures

1:56:33 ↗ and sort of that sets the expectation of

1:56:36 ↗ what's

1:56:36 ↗ going to occur it was not implementable

1:56:40 ↗ by staff because there was not a direct

1:56:44 ↗ reference for that visual

1:56:48 ↗ and i don't know how to make it so that

1:56:51 ↗ that and so is value engineered out let

1:56:55 ↗ me finish it with that so

1:56:56 ↗ how do you make it so what you think

1:56:58 ↗ you're getting is what you

1:57:00 ↗ actually get right because i think all

1:57:03 ↗ of you

1:57:03 ↗ and myself expected those balconies

1:57:05 ↗ would occur

1:57:06 ↗ so every time i drive by the freeway i

1:57:08 ↗ grind my teeth on the freeway i grind my

1:57:10 ↗ teeth

1:57:11 ↗ both at the vegetation and at the dang

1:57:14 ↗ balconies or the

1:57:15 ↗ the surface of the building i mean we

1:57:18 ↗ need to fix that somehow

1:57:20 ↗ um uh then let's talk about the

1:57:22 ↗ consolidated permits a little bit

1:57:25 ↗ uh the consolidated permit the staff

1:57:29 ↗ seems to use that as de facto if the

1:57:31 ↗ applicant asks for consolidated permit

1:57:34 ↗ they seem to just say okay we need to

1:57:36 ↗ give it to them

1:57:37 ↗ now my read of the code i'm not a lawyer

1:57:40 ↗ it seems like we don't need to just

1:57:42 ↗ automatically

1:57:44 ↗ provide that to them though we do

1:57:46 ↗ habitually i think that needs to be a

1:57:48 ↗ more conscientious decision

1:57:50 ↗ and perhaps that could be part of the

1:57:53 ↗ process do

1:57:54 ↗ we want to allow for a consolidated

1:57:56 ↗ permit review in a particular situation

1:57:59 ↗ now i don't know if that's true or not

1:58:01 ↗ but there have been some points where

1:58:02 ↗ you would like to

1:58:03 ↗ peel it apart from each other you'd

1:58:05 ↗ actually like the policy language to get

1:58:08 ↗ into place before you have to and have a

1:58:10 ↗ discussion

1:58:11 ↗ before you actually look at the

1:58:14 ↗ permitting

1:58:15 ↗ of you know the you get it

1:58:18 ↗ um now lucy says you can't go to the

1:58:22 ↗ active projects list

1:58:24 ↗ and that was one of my questions i don't

1:58:26 ↗ know why you couldn't

1:58:28 ↗ if all that stuff is going to be the

1:58:30 ↗ stuff that's on the record

1:58:31 ↗ i don't know why you wouldn't be able to

1:58:33 ↗ go to the active projects list

1:58:35 ↗ or map and well that's a topic of

1:58:38 ↗ conversation

1:58:39 ↗ i would like for all of you to go to

1:58:41 ↗ those two things and get

1:58:43 ↗ a feeling of how the public has to

1:58:46 ↗ negotiate the information

1:58:48 ↗ going into these reviews on my phone

1:58:51 ↗ it was on incomprehensible using the map

1:58:55 ↗ um the list is easier on the computer

1:58:58 ↗ it's still hard using the map but

1:59:01 ↗ it's at least tolerable so check it out

1:59:04 ↗ if you haven't done that before um a

1:59:07 ↗ feedback loop for development commission

1:59:09 ↗ to see that the intent of its decision

1:59:12 ↗ has

1:59:12 ↗ actually been achieved has never

1:59:15 ↗ occurred i would

1:59:16 ↗ like to see in this situation that you

1:59:20 ↗ you can see that what you think you're

1:59:22 ↗ approving

1:59:23 ↗ actually gets approved and built and

1:59:26 ↗ that needs to be a habit

1:59:28 ↗ so that you can see on the fly when

1:59:31 ↗ changes need to be made and how things

1:59:34 ↗ are working because i

1:59:35 ↗ i think that is lacking and lo and

1:59:38 ↗ behold that's the end of my list

1:59:40 ↗ so i talked really fast i don't know if

1:59:43 ↗ you understood any of it i know i'm over

1:59:46 ↗ my five minutes

1:59:47 ↗ but i appreciate your patience in going

1:59:49 ↗ through all of

1:59:51 ↗ all of this stuff and i hope that my

1:59:55 ↗ um comments give you a little bit of

1:59:58 ↗ perspective

1:59:59 ↗ from the public point of view not the

2:00:02 ↗ staff point of view and your own point

2:00:03 ↗ of view

2:00:04 ↗ okay so thank you very much

2:00:07 ↗ thank you miss marsh appreciate the

2:00:09 ↗ comments and uh feedback

2:00:11 ↗ to is lucy is there anyone else that

2:00:15 ↗ would like to make public comment

2:00:17 ↗ tonight

2:00:19 ↗ there are uh no other uh attendees other

2:00:23 ↗ than our recording secretary

2:00:26 ↗ so uh with that then i think we have

2:00:30 ↗ concluded our business for this evening

2:00:33 ↗ any final questions or comments from

2:00:38 ↗ commissioners seeing that then we are

2:00:41 ↗ adjourned thank you

2:00:43 ↗ thank you thank you everyone good night

Approved minutes

Extracted from the next meeting's packet, where this meeting's minutes were approved as a consent-calendar attachment.

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Attendance

Council / Members (9)

Administration/Staff/Others: Michael Brennan

Lucy Sloman

Land Dev. Manager Kevin Price

Tina Eggers

City Clerk Brooke Shore Jim Haney

City Attorney Patty Dillon Minnie Dhaliwal

CP&D Director Richard Sanford Arthur Schulte Richard Sowa Jon Ikeda

Alternate Mel Morgan

Alternate