City Council Services, Safety & Parks Committee · Tuesday, February 25, 2025 · City Council Digest

3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES

Minutes of January 28, 2025

packet pp.5–6

Open packet at p.5 ↗

Staff report:

APPROVAL OF MINUTES a) 01-28-25 City Council Services, Safety & Parks Page (1) Committee Minutes CITY OF ISSAQUAH City Council Services, Safety & Parks Committee 6:30 PM Council Chambers, 135 E. January 28, 2025 MINUTES Sunset Way, Issaquah WA

4. AGENDA ITEMS

FLOCK Camera System COM 0089

60 min · Chief Paula Schwan, Issaquah Police Chief · packet pp.7–25

▶ Watch from 1:52 Open packet at p.7 ↗

Staff report:

Staff recommends Committee approve the use of the FLOCK camera system by the City of Issaquah and move the item forward to the full council for adoption.

919 segments .txt ↗

0:23 ↗ welcome everyone I council member toam

0:24 ↗ Mars called the Tuesday February 25th

0:27 ↗ city council services safety and Parks

0:30 ↗ committee meeting to

0:31 ↗ order and uh the first thing that we

0:34 ↗ have on the agenda for this evening let

0:37 ↗ me just go to my uh packet here sorry

0:40 ↗ should have had it open already uh is

0:43 ↗ public

0:44 ↗ comment uh we do not have any members of

0:47 ↗ the public present with us in the room

0:50 ↗ uh Chris do we have any members of the

0:51 ↗ public online at this time we have no

0:54 ↗ virtual attendees at this time chair

0:56 ↗ Mars all right well then we will

0:58 ↗ continue forward word then um into our

1:02 ↗ next item which is approval of

1:07 ↗ minutes would you care to make a motion

1:10 ↗ Deputy council president sure I'll move

1:12 ↗ uh that we accept the minutes of the

1:14 ↗ January 28th 25 meeting I will second

1:18 ↗ that all those in favor say I I opposed

1:22 ↗ extensions that passes Two To Zero by

1:24 ↗ the way uh we had uh we did our re uh

1:29 ↗ what's word I'm looking for musical

1:31 ↗ chairs musical chairs uh for committees

1:35 ↗ and uh out with the old in with the new

1:37 ↗ uh we uh thank uh council member Joe for

1:40 ↗ being on the committee last year and

1:42 ↗ we'll be welcoming back council member

1:44 ↗ Ry uh onto this group but neither of

1:47 ↗ those individuals were available this

1:49 ↗ evening so Barb and I is what you get uh

1:52 ↗ with that we will move on to agenda item

1:54 ↗ Co 0089 flock camera system presented to

1:58 ↗ us by Chief Schwan

2:09 ↗ uh your

2:10 ↗ microphone there thank you very

2:13 ↗ much perfect thank

2:16 ↗ you okay excellent so um tonight we I'm

2:20 ↗ here to talk about flock cameras um

2:23 ↗ cameras that are actually been in our

2:25 ↗ city for a couple years now and that we

2:27 ↗ have access to and there's many

2:29 ↗ different jurisdictions around us that

2:31 ↗ are actually using these cameras so i'

2:33 ↗ just like to give you an overview of

2:34 ↗ what they are how many actually are in

2:36 ↗ our state how many um with our local

2:38 ↗ surrounding agencies that they have what

2:40 ↗ they can and cannot do some of the

2:42 ↗ misnomers and different things along

2:44 ↗ those lines next slide

2:47 ↗ please so the direction we're needed

2:49 ↗ from the safety and Services Commission

2:51 ↗ is we're asking that the service Safety

2:54 ↗ and Parks Council committee for input on

2:56 ↗ the discussion for purchasing flock

2:58 ↗ cameras as a supplement to to Aid law

3:00 ↗ enforcement in keeping citizens

3:04 ↗ safe next

3:06 ↗ slide so a little bit of background

3:08 ↗ about the cameras what an alpr or flock

3:12 ↗ camera is so an alpr camera there's a

3:15 ↗ misnomer and we've actually had these in

3:16 ↗ the cities for a very long time more

3:19 ↗ than 10 years they used to be and a lot

3:21 ↗ of jurisdictions have them on the cars

3:23 ↗ on the patrol cars specifically they

3:25 ↗ look a little awkward sometimes they

3:27 ↗ look like speakers on the top of the car

3:28 ↗ but they're actually cameras that are

3:30 ↗ watching all around so like when a car

3:32 ↗ pulls into a patrol car pulls into a

3:33 ↗ parking lot can read all the cameras

3:35 ↗ that are around them and we did have

3:37 ↗ those originally um when I came on

3:40 ↗ almost eight years ago now uh since then

3:43 ↗ and they were very time consuming

3:45 ↗ because we had to enter all the plates

3:47 ↗ in that came to us um so it was very uh

3:50 ↗ wasn't as effective as it could have

3:52 ↗ been these flock cameras aren't just an

3:55 ↗ alpr they don't just read license plates

3:57 ↗ so that is a little bit of a misnomer

4:00 ↗ um and that's what Alp it's an automatic

4:01 ↗ license plate reader and they use high

4:04 ↗ definition camera and Technology to read

4:07 ↗ license plates but we are the ones as

4:08 ↗ officers that have to upload and

4:10 ↗ Implement those different plates

4:12 ↗ themselves uh the First

4:14 ↗ Data first uh this data can then be

4:17 ↗ checked again with criminal database in

4:19 ↗ our systems for wanted website which is

4:22 ↗ our ncic which automatically connects to

4:24 ↗ that in our computer systems and so

4:26 ↗ these cameras are similar but they're

4:29 ↗ they're more than just the alpr now that

4:32 ↗ doesn't mean and I can tell you what

4:33 ↗ they're not that's another slide so um

4:35 ↗ next slide please so what a flat camera

4:38 ↗ is not it's not facial recognition in

4:41 ↗ fact the reality is they get a better

4:43 ↗ read from a car that's on the back end

4:46 ↗ so for example I'm getting a little bit

4:49 ↗ down in my comments but if we were to

4:51 ↗ put any of those in the Ingress or

4:53 ↗ egress of our city they would be on the

4:55 ↗ rear end facing of the vehicles and

4:58 ↗ that's what they're looking for most

4:59 ↗ read better on the back end of the car

5:01 ↗ than they ever do on the front and I

5:03 ↗ don't know if that's because they're

5:03 ↗ lower or what that reasoning is but they

5:06 ↗ do read mostly from the rear end of the

5:08 ↗ vehicle so we're not looking to do

5:11 ↗ facial recognition um it does not

5:13 ↗ collect biometric or sensitive

5:15 ↗ information like fingerprints um like

5:17 ↗ any other facial information at all or

5:20 ↗ anything specific regarding the vehicle

5:23 ↗ or the persons inside the vehicle more

5:24 ↗ specifically and it's not used for

5:26 ↗ tracking speed or parking violations

5:29 ↗ those again are not things that they're

5:30 ↗ used for um that's not what we're

5:32 ↗ recommending we're not going to use a

5:34 ↗ camera to zoom in and go oh okay there's

5:37 ↗ a parking violation there now I'm going

5:38 ↗ to send out a car in actuality we can't

5:41 ↗ even access these the ones that we

5:43 ↗ already have access to we're not allowed

5:46 ↗ to go into those because it's the

5:48 ↗ auditing process unless you have an

5:50 ↗ actual case number that you're there for

5:53 ↗ so we would have to have got called on

5:55 ↗ there being a case or crime in that area

5:57 ↗ or report that has a case number before

6:00 ↗ we could ever even access the cameras

6:02 ↗ for anything specific in any of the

6:04 ↗ areas next slide

6:06 ↗ please so things to know there's over 69

6:10 ↗ agencies in Washington to date with

6:12 ↗ active flock camera systems total of

6:15 ↗ four flock camera systems um actually

6:18 ↗ there's a total of four flock camera

6:20 ↗ systems sharing their data with the city

6:22 ↗ of isqua police department today but we

6:25 ↗ actually have 10 live flock cameras in

6:28 ↗ the city that are personally owned owned

6:30 ↗ or privately owned I should say and so

6:33 ↗ we don't yet have access to those other

6:35 ↗ six but there are six or 10 total in the

6:38 ↗ city and we do have access to four block

6:41 ↗ has a transparency page um I put the

6:43 ↗ link in there it's on the bottom um I

6:46 ↗ would highly recommend going in there it

6:48 ↗ gives all the type of data all the type

6:50 ↗ of information we can look up all the

6:53 ↗ access and different things that

6:54 ↗ different agencies have ran as far as

6:56 ↗ stolen plates they've caught in initial

6:59 ↗ uh initially had contact with all those

7:01 ↗ different things um very good page for

7:05 ↗ staff to be looking at and reviewing um

7:07 ↗ to see that everybody would have access

7:09 ↗ that for that as well for those of us

7:11 ↗ that would have those cameras in

7:13 ↗ place and um yeah it's open to the

7:15 ↗ public so any of our citizens would be

7:17 ↗ able also to go on there and view the

7:19 ↗ transparency page there's nothing that

7:21 ↗ we're hiding to show that we're looking

7:23 ↗ up you know your neighbor nobody can

7:24 ↗ look at your neighbor by having them

7:26 ↗ that's not the direction and there also

7:28 ↗ have a where they can't zoom into like

7:31 ↗ Windows that's that's not the idea

7:34 ↗ either um audits are easily tracked

7:37 ↗ through the flock system to ensure the

7:39 ↗ oversight and compliance with the actual

7:41 ↗ policy they have in place next slide

7:44 ↗ please here is a list of all the law

7:47 ↗ enforcement Partners in Washington which

7:49 ↗ there are great many of them and I have

7:52 ↗ a list of actually how many each one of

7:54 ↗ these cities have in place currently uh

7:57 ↗ just wanted to show you a large overview

7:59 ↗ of those 69 agencies next slide

8:03 ↗ please so current neighboring

8:05 ↗ jurisdictions which is very important

8:07 ↗ for us typically to see the ones that

8:08 ↗ are neighboring to us Redmond has 25

8:10 ↗ currently Clyde Hill and Madina it says

8:12 ↗ they have eight cameras but I know they

8:14 ↗ implemented a bunch more and I believe

8:16 ↗ there's a bunch more privately owned as

8:17 ↗ well this is the public owned ones

8:20 ↗ Normandy Park with two Lynwood has 25

8:23 ↗ Newcastle was seven Black Diamond with

8:25 ↗ six ritton 24 tuilla with 35 and Bonnie

8:29 ↗ Lake with 23 and that's just those

8:32 ↗ surrounding agencies and I know and I've

8:34 ↗ heard from several of these Chiefs

8:36 ↗ personally that they've been very

8:37 ↗ helpful in uh with a lot of crimes that

8:40 ↗ they've been able to uh either catch the

8:43 ↗ people in the act for example if we had

8:45 ↗ someone or one of our cameras on the

8:46 ↗ Ingress egress on South Front Street as

8:50 ↗ they're coming in off Hobart by the time

8:52 ↗ we all know with traffic especially

8:54 ↗ during certain hours of the day if

8:55 ↗ someone pass that camera with a stolen

8:58 ↗ car and they're coming into our city or

9:00 ↗ they took it and they're leaving our

9:01 ↗ city we would have access especially if

9:03 ↗ they were coming into our city probably

9:04 ↗ before they ever got to second half

9:06 ↗ because we would have people at the if

9:08 ↗ they were at the station or anywhere

9:09 ↗ else could get there and we could cut

9:10 ↗ them off before they even got very much

9:12 ↗ into our city because of how traffic is

9:14 ↗ now going out we would be able to let

9:16 ↗ County know and or go that direction and

9:19 ↗ then let other agencies know too to

9:21 ↗ catch those individuals if someone had

9:22 ↗ one of our own people that were our own

9:25 ↗ um neighborhoods that got their vehicle

9:27 ↗ stolen so those are nice pieces of

9:29 ↗ information to have and that's another

9:31 ↗ piece that they are utilized for next

9:33 ↗ slide

9:34 ↗ please local communities supporting or

9:37 ↗ actively utilizing the flock cameras the

9:39 ↗ HOAs currently that are in support or

9:41 ↗ currently have are the Highlands

9:43 ↗ Community High Grove Estates Association

9:46 ↗ mantro HOA and samamish Bluffs HOA

9:49 ↗ current flock cameras in a squad that

9:51 ↗ we're actually using um for the

9:53 ↗ businesses are Lowe's rally properties

9:56 ↗ and the woods and those three um have

9:58 ↗ given us access and there's one more as

10:01 ↗ well that we're working with um as far

10:03 ↗ as that fourth one next slide

10:06 ↗ please so there's different types of

10:09 ↗ flock cameras and that's why when you

10:11 ↗ saw these Pages you would see that there

10:13 ↗ were different prices and I'm going to

10:14 ↗ explain that a little bit so for this

10:17 ↗ one the Falcon the LPR it's used for the

10:20 ↗ two-lane roads so for example I already

10:22 ↗ talked about hobar Andor South Front

10:25 ↗ Street this would be the price of a

10:26 ↗ camera in that jurisdiction or area and

10:29 ↗ because because that's only a two-lane

10:30 ↗ roadway the ones that are more expensive

10:33 ↗ which is the next slide I can go into

10:34 ↗ this one but there's a reinc herring fee

10:36 ↗ of the 3,000 per contract per camera

10:38 ↗ year um or damage to the camera or theft

10:41 ↗ and there's the cost for the total of

10:43 ↗ 800 per camera on that next slide please

10:47 ↗ this one is for the long range camera

10:48 ↗ which is more for the for Lane roads

10:50 ↗ like sr900 would be one that we might

10:53 ↗ use that for and so this is a location

10:56 ↗ that they would be and it's more

10:57 ↗ expensive because it's a wider range um

11:01 ↗ covers longer distance and so this

11:03 ↗ includes permits installation traffic

11:05 ↗ plans regular out maintenance of the

11:07 ↗ camera system reoccurring of 5,000

11:10 ↗ versus the three damage to the camera

11:12 ↗ theft um is the same $800 for the camera

11:15 ↗ itself next slide

11:18 ↗ please so local isqua examples recently

11:21 ↗ ipd Patrol was dispatched to a theft

11:23 ↗ from a vehicle a witness provided a

11:25 ↗ license plate from out of state but did

11:26 ↗ not know which state and a vehicle

11:29 ↗ called

11:30 ↗ using flock another officer was able to

11:32 ↗ find the state the license plate was out

11:34 ↗ of and obtain the image of the vehicle

11:36 ↗ from another City's flock camera which

11:38 ↗ allowed the officer to investigate

11:40 ↗ further next slide please so some other

11:44 ↗ possible examples of uses of this is

11:46 ↗ when we have Amber and silver alerts so

11:48 ↗ if we have Amber and silver alerts that

11:50 ↗ go out Statewide if they happen to come

11:52 ↗ into our city for any reason or if we

11:54 ↗ ourselves um hopefully not but if we

11:57 ↗ happen to have one and we push that out

11:59 ↗ out when we could find when and where

12:01 ↗ they left and what direction they were

12:03 ↗ traveling which is more data to give any

12:04 ↗ other agencies as well and track that

12:07 ↗ down another is a detective uh

12:09 ↗ detectives investigating recent

12:11 ↗ residential burglary we had no leads the

12:13 ↗ vehicle description was vague flock

12:15 ↗ cameras would have allowed them to

12:17 ↗ locate the vehicle license plate and

12:18 ↗ pursue the case more efficiently press

12:21 ↗ providing closer to the victim quicker

12:23 ↗ the other part to that is for example we

12:25 ↗ just had a robbery at Target moments

12:28 ↗ before I came over here with some

12:30 ↗ juveniles and the persons at the

12:32 ↗ hospital we would be able to track some

12:34 ↗ of those at different locations we did

12:36 ↗ some in we got some information U before

12:39 ↗ I came over here as well and that I

12:42 ↗ don't believe are in our slides but they

12:44 ↗ did a map and I'm going to send over

12:45 ↗ that email because I got that

12:47 ↗ information today so it was after these

12:49 ↗ slides but they did a overview and this

12:52 ↗ is what flock system does in the event

12:54 ↗ that this is something that you guys

12:56 ↗ approved or the council approved to go

12:58 ↗ or to go to council

12:59 ↗ the committee I it would be that flock

13:02 ↗ would come in and they can answer so

13:04 ↗ many different questions they have a

13:05 ↗ representative that has gone to numerous

13:07 ↗ councils and one of the things that they

13:09 ↗ do is a map of what they would how many

13:12 ↗ cameras it would take to get every

13:14 ↗ Ingress and egress in our city and I can

13:16 ↗ send you that link because they have it

13:18 ↗ all mapped out and they could show you

13:19 ↗ exactly everywhere and what they're

13:21 ↗ total this and again I'm not

13:23 ↗ recommending this part of it I think

13:25 ↗ there it's it's beneficial to have all

13:27 ↗ the information and scale down versus is

13:29 ↗ the other way around and not know what

13:30 ↗ that would look like so if we wanted

13:33 ↗ every Ingress and egress in and out of

13:34 ↗ our city would be 19 cameras if we

13:37 ↗ wanted every single major intersection

13:40 ↗ which would be 23 more cameras above

13:41 ↗ that again I'm not recommending

13:44 ↗ necessarily we get that many cameras um

13:46 ↗ number one the cost is very expensive uh

13:48 ↗ but number two that I don't know that we

13:51 ↗ have as much trouble in every single one

13:52 ↗ of those areas in and out of our city or

13:55 ↗ at those intersections I can tell you

13:58 ↗ that a lot of intersection

13:59 ↗ and major situ locations in many cities

14:02 ↗ have hugely benefited and Major Crimes

14:04 ↗ have been solved by having some of these

14:07 ↗ uh there also has been you might find

14:09 ↗ when you look up flock camera I believe

14:10 ↗ it's in Virginia but there was a lawsuit

14:12 ↗ that was filed because there was some

14:14 ↗ worry and concern about the fact that if

14:16 ↗ you have too many cameras what you're

14:18 ↗ doing is trying to be big brother and

14:19 ↗ track like where's someone going and

14:21 ↗ where they're going to and from that's

14:23 ↗ not the intent of the cameras where our

14:25 ↗ intent is to find and deter crime um

14:28 ↗ they put up big signs saying flock

14:29 ↗ cameras based on that camera and in and

14:32 ↗ out of the Cities so people have

14:33 ↗ knowledge and information we would put

14:35 ↗ it up on social media and let all the

14:36 ↗ citizens in neighborhoods know that

14:38 ↗ that's what was happening and that's

14:40 ↗ where they would even where they would

14:42 ↗ be placed it wouldn't be that they were

14:43 ↗ secret or we were trying to hide

14:45 ↗ anything and then we will have all the

14:46 ↗ audits as well which anybody or

14:48 ↗ specifically the Committees Andor

14:50 ↗ council could ask for an audit at any

14:52 ↗ point in time say hey I'd like to know

14:54 ↗ can you print that up or show me give me

14:56 ↗ the link so I can look it up and bring

14:58 ↗ those information as a report throughout

15:00 ↗ the year on how many times we've even

15:02 ↗ we've even utilized them and then if

15:04 ↗ we've got any leads or any crimes have

15:06 ↗ been committed um or caught and closed

15:09 ↗ because of the cameras as well because

15:11 ↗ then you could do it on a yearby year

15:12 ↗ basis to know if they've been beneficial

15:14 ↗ and helpful and how many crimes they

15:16 ↗ were part

15:17 ↗ of can you go next slide please so again

15:20 ↗ the directions needed and I'm happy to

15:22 ↗ answer any questions but we're asking

15:24 ↗ the administration is asking the service

15:25 ↗ of safety and Parks count or Council

15:27 ↗ committee for input on the discussion of

15:30 ↗ purchasing flock cameras as a supplement

15:32 ↗ to Aid law enforcement in keeping

15:34 ↗ citizens

15:37 ↗ safe so I'll start off with uh with a

15:41 ↗ question couple of questions um I'm not

15:44 ↗ I didn't see in your

15:47 ↗ presentation uh a scale but we were I

15:49 ↗ think you said six cameras was how we do

15:52 ↗ we do we have

15:53 ↗ a are you do you have a specific number

15:57 ↗ of cameras in mind for a project or are

16:00 ↗ we just talking about generally speaking

16:02 ↗ are we willing to entertain the concept

16:04 ↗ of flock cameras or is there a package

16:06 ↗ size year I would say giving you all the

16:09 ↗ information about to do all the Ingress

16:11 ↗ and egress we already currently have 10

16:13 ↗ that are privately owned and it was just

16:16 ↗ giving you the I guess putting out the

16:18 ↗ idea for to see what the citizens and

16:21 ↗ the council are interested in um not

16:25 ↗ necessarily a recommendation for those

16:27 ↗ specifically because I think that's it's

16:30 ↗ I can make a recommendation but I think

16:32 ↗ that would be a little bit later time if

16:35 ↗ the council is something that they

16:36 ↗ wanted to pursue got it I know that uh

16:40 ↗ well next question would be in your

16:43 ↗ example that you gave um it involved

16:47 ↗ interdepartmental uh cooperation the

16:50 ↗ example that you gave it sounded like um

16:53 ↗ we went we saw the flock from another

16:55 ↗ the flock data from another municipality

16:57 ↗ is that is that what you said in in the

17:00 ↗ example that we gave here the one with

17:01 ↗ the out ofate

17:03 ↗ plate no that's what what that just

17:05 ↗ means is we were able to run it in our

17:06 ↗ state computer because we could run it

17:08 ↗ down and we narrowed down to what the

17:10 ↗ colors were because um and the place

17:12 ↗ Itself by the numbers so we run it when

17:15 ↗ we run a plate it doesn't have to be

17:17 ↗ just in Washington when we run a plate

17:19 ↗ we don't have to attach a state we can

17:20 ↗ if we actually know the state which

17:22 ↗ makes it a lot faster but if we don't we

17:24 ↗ can run it and put a generic like in a

17:26 ↗ region or we can do it United States

17:28 ↗ wide

17:29 ↗ and then we might get multiple returns

17:31 ↗ but having that information in and of

17:33 ↗ itself without knowing the state we were

17:35 ↗ able to run that and because of the

17:37 ↗ flock camera without even reading the

17:39 ↗ state and still be able to get a return

17:41 ↗ got it okay I miss I misunderstood

17:44 ↗ this pardon

17:46 ↗ me

17:48 ↗ questions um I just thought of one while

17:51 ↗ you were asking and that is you know you

17:53 ↗ talked about putting the signs up um how

17:56 ↗ do we communicate to the bad guys in the

17:58 ↗ back gals that they're also being

18:01 ↗ photographed is is that how somebody

18:03 ↗ would know oh I don't want to go to

18:05 ↗ isqua because they've got flocked

18:08 ↗ cameras that they could know that

18:09 ↗ because if we put we can even put the

18:11 ↗ signs on all the Ingress egresses that

18:13 ↗ we could get 19 signs going in and out

18:15 ↗ of the city um but we wouldn't they

18:18 ↗ would all know the whole point is for

18:20 ↗ everybody to know hopefully they

18:21 ↗ wouldn't want to come here and do that

18:22 ↗ anyway but it's pretty well known that

18:24 ↗ almost all the cities and even like

18:26 ↗ Lowe's has them a lot of the different a

18:29 ↗ lot of the lights with the cameras now

18:30 ↗ you're seeing some of those now are the

18:32 ↗ flock cameras and so they know that law

18:34 ↗ enforcement has access they know that

18:36 ↗ these people have access so they're

18:38 ↗ still committing crimes anyway this is

18:40 ↗ just a way for us to catch them a little

18:42 ↗ bit faster or catch them at all whereas

18:44 ↗ in the past maybe we didn't have that

18:46 ↗ option so they deter to go to different

18:48 ↗ cities that don't have as many or don't

18:49 ↗ have them at all so that's one of the

18:52 ↗ pieces that we're also considering in

18:54 ↗ that factor is trying to deter that

18:56 ↗ crime Andor have the access to the

18:58 ↗ information

18:59 ↗ sooner or like some of the other

19:01 ↗ agencies because if they come here and

19:03 ↗ they're in someone else's car it'll

19:05 ↗ trigger immediately on a stolen car so

19:08 ↗ that's a nice piece the minute someone

19:10 ↗ reports their car's stolen we get it

19:12 ↗ entered into the computer system they

19:14 ↗ literally could go from hypothetically

19:16 ↗ up in the highlands drive around town

19:19 ↗ because they stole someone's wallet or

19:20 ↗ somebody or their car and decided to go

19:22 ↗ to a gas station and if they pause for

19:25 ↗ you know a moment's time by the time our

19:26 ↗ officer gets there and confirms a plate

19:28 ↗ or whatever it's in the system before

19:29 ↗ maybe they leave the city well then we

19:32 ↗ can track that this was then when they

19:33 ↗ were last in our city or they haven't

19:34 ↗ left the city yet so that means we can

19:37 ↗ continue to search in our city or we

19:38 ↗ know they've left so we let neighboring

19:40 ↗ agencies know hey this car was just

19:42 ↗ stolen it's headed your way we can also

19:45 ↗ give that information and it gives again

19:47 ↗ faster opportunity to help those victims

19:49 ↗ get their property

19:52 ↗ back have we done an estimate of and and

19:56 ↗ again I you're not asking specific

19:58 ↗ number of cameras but let's just throw a

20:01 ↗ uh a notion out there you said there

20:03 ↗ were 19 if we wanted all the Ingress and

20:05 ↗ egress to the city do we understand what

20:07 ↗ the Staffing impact would be to uh to

20:10 ↗ manage the data stream of those 19

20:12 ↗ cameras so the one thing about these

20:15 ↗ cameras is we don't manage anything we

20:17 ↗ can't look at them we can't have someone

20:18 ↗ monitoring them it's not like people are

20:20 ↗ getting tickets every day hugely

20:23 ↗ different than like for example the

20:24 ↗ speed camera over by the school not the

20:27 ↗ same any way shape or form that one

20:29 ↗ every time there's a ticket which could

20:30 ↗ be hundreds a day someone has to monitor

20:32 ↗ and go through all those we only get the

20:35 ↗ cameras are going and look on the

20:37 ↗ cameras that's what that audits was

20:38 ↗ about if we have someone say for example

20:41 ↗ let's say South COA have a South Cove

20:44 ↗ has a camera and we go out there because

20:47 ↗ somebody's car was stolen or there was a

20:49 ↗ vehicle proud at three of the houses and

20:51 ↗ they tell us it was at certain time a

20:53 ↗ day we have to have a case number to be

20:54 ↗ able to go in there and attach that to

20:57 ↗ why we would look at that camera if we

20:59 ↗ don't we can't be looking at those

21:00 ↗ cameras we're not allowed we don't have

21:02 ↗ access to go in there it timestamps who

21:04 ↗ logged in what time they logged in what

21:06 ↗ it was for and if it's not attached to a

21:09 ↗ case number that actually was a legit

21:11 ↗ case or case number then we can't we

21:13 ↗ don't have access so it isn't like we're

21:15 ↗ monitoring or Staffing that on a regular

21:17 ↗ basis it's just for our detectives it's

21:19 ↗ another tool in our toolbx to go have

21:22 ↗ access to if there is a crime that's

21:24 ↗ been committed or we get reported to

21:26 ↗ us um so maybe I'm maybe I'm not

21:30 ↗ understanding it I guess I assumed that

21:33 ↗ if a if a stolen vehicle entered the

21:36 ↗ city and it registered the license plate

21:39 ↗ of a vehicle that had been stolen it

21:40 ↗ would send an alert to you guys saying

21:43 ↗ hey I've just detected a stolen vehicle

21:46 ↗ correct so you would anticipate I mean

21:48 ↗ I'm looking at this book at this yaka U

21:52 ↗ page from December and it says assisted

21:53 ↗ in 29 arrests 785 wanted persons 681

21:59 ↗ warrants 58 stolen vehicles 33 stolen

22:02 ↗ plates eight violent persons six

22:04 ↗ protection orders I mean that represents

22:06 ↗ work for you guys right sure so do we

22:09 ↗ understand if we were to put 19 cameras

22:11 ↗ in my my concern is just and I'm I you

22:16 ↗ know this better than I do we have a

22:17 ↗ small police force and just to make sure

22:20 ↗ that this wouldn't create an undue

22:22 ↗ imposition by the am by the amount of

22:24 ↗ hits that would be coming in do we

22:26 ↗ understand what the expected hit rate

22:28 ↗ that we might see on 19 cameras and are

22:31 ↗ we ready for that with with our staffing

22:34 ↗ I would say 19 cameras um no we are not

22:37 ↗ ready for that I'm not going to give

22:39 ↗ false information um 19 cameras no I

22:42 ↗ don't think we're staff for that because

22:43 ↗ God forbid that we have 19 stolen cars

22:46 ↗ even at one time that come in through

22:48 ↗ those and so it would take a priority

22:51 ↗ and we would prioritize and that's what

22:53 ↗ it would look like so had we had 19

22:54 ↗ cameras it would be and they were all

22:56 ↗ implemented it would be a prioritization

22:59 ↗ no different than some of these other

23:00 ↗ agencies that you're seeing that are

23:02 ↗ smaller but have certain numbers of

23:04 ↗ cameras they don't have the officers to

23:06 ↗ do 23 you know Bell viw and different

23:08 ↗ ones Bell viw is in the process of

23:10 ↗ adding flat cameras as well they're not

23:11 ↗ on there because that's not finalized

23:13 ↗ yet but say Redmond for example for the

23:15 ↗ number of cameras they have if all those

23:16 ↗ hit at the same time they don't have the

23:18 ↗ Staffing for that either the hope is

23:20 ↗ that number one it's a deterrent and

23:22 ↗ then number two in the event that we

23:24 ↗ have them or a stolen car goes into one

23:26 ↗ of those communities yes it triggers a

23:27 ↗ camera or an alert to all the officers

23:30 ↗ and the Dispatch Center to let them know

23:32 ↗ that that happened now it's also a

23:34 ↗ property crime so if we have personal

23:36 ↗ crimes that are going on at the time

23:38 ↗ they would be prioritized after the fact

23:40 ↗ so in other words that stolen card would

23:42 ↗ take secondary to the victim and prop

23:45 ↗ personal crimes that are happening in

23:46 ↗ the city so that would be how it would

23:49 ↗ be prioritized and yes we would have

23:51 ↗ those were things that would have to be

23:52 ↗ done in those circumstances if we had

23:54 ↗ that many

23:55 ↗ cameras thank you that's a good

23:58 ↗ explanation I appreciate

24:00 ↗ it Deputy council president um so you

24:04 ↗ kind of alluded to that lawsuit in

24:05 ↗ Virginia and um so I'm sorry to have to

24:09 ↗ ask you this but um these cameras would

24:12 ↗ not be used to track for example

24:15 ↗ undocumented workers um and those kinds

24:17 ↗ of things I'm presuming in other words

24:20 ↗ we're going to Define crime as a crime

24:23 ↗ against property or a crime against

24:24 ↗ persons but not a crime against

24:26 ↗ immigration law right correct 100%

24:30 ↗ okay thank

24:32 ↗ you do we have any more questions before

24:36 ↗ we because um then we would uh check

24:39 ↗ again to see if we had any members of

24:40 ↗ the public online with us and then we

24:42 ↗ would go into deliberations let's do

24:44 ↗ that okay uh that's what we will do and

24:47 ↗ Chris I will ask you again whether any

24:48 ↗ members of the public are with us online

24:51 ↗ we have no members of the public in

24:53 ↗ attendance well then I will not give my

24:55 ↗ big public comment spiel can I make one

24:59 ↗ more of course brief comment um to your

25:02 ↗ question uh Deputy Council Barbara de

25:05 ↗ Michelle uh we are not going to be

25:07 ↗ tracking anybody that's not our goal is

25:09 ↗ to track anybody so not just

25:11 ↗ undocumented but we're not tracking

25:13 ↗ anybody by these it's to give us

25:15 ↗ information on where people entered and

25:18 ↗ um left our city last uh that have been

25:21 ↗ either committed a crime or that we were

25:24 ↗ um pursuing in uh an investigation but

25:28 ↗ not track and they're not to be tracking

25:30 ↗ it's for us to see if we can locate so

25:33 ↗ that's the difference in tracking in

25:35 ↗ locating are two different things um so

25:38 ↗ example if you got up in the morning we

25:39 ↗ wouldn't want to track you and find you

25:41 ↗ if you're making it and going oh she's

25:43 ↗ late for the meeting can we track her

25:45 ↗ and see where she's going they're

25:46 ↗ they're not for intended for any purpose

25:48 ↗ like

25:51 ↗ that all right well we don't have to we

25:54 ↗ have no members of the public with us uh

25:56 ↗ I will say that we did receive reive uh

26:00 ↗ a small amount of uh feedback from the

26:02 ↗ public I would say that uh the light

26:05 ↗ feedback thus far has been positive I

26:08 ↗ haven't I have not seen any feedback

26:10 ↗ from the public that would have a

26:12 ↗ negative concern about this General

26:13 ↗ support for as as this being a

26:18 ↗ uh fair and Equitable addition to public

26:22 ↗ safety tools um should should we go

26:26 ↗ forward so

26:29 ↗ pardon

26:30 ↗ me so what do you think for uh

26:34 ↗ recommendation back to the

26:35 ↗ administration and to our fellow council

26:36 ↗ members so yeah I'm I'm generally very

26:39 ↗ positive about this and I did a mini

26:41 ↗ survey of about three people and they

26:44 ↗ were all they all gave me positive

26:45 ↗ feedback and said they thought it

26:47 ↗ sounded like a good idea so um but uh

26:51 ↗ and you know you heard this when we were

26:53 ↗ doing body cameras uh Chief Schwan

26:55 ↗ always concerned about the privacy of

26:58 ↗ our citizens and um and also I think

27:02 ↗ we're in a very um sensitive political

27:05 ↗ environment right now where there are

27:08 ↗ groups of people in our community who

27:10 ↗ are very very concerned about

27:11 ↗ surveillance and um people watching them

27:15 ↗ and so forth so my thought is let let's

27:18 ↗ go forward um and I I really appreciate

27:21 ↗ you coming to us with the idea of having

27:24 ↗ a conversation about this and a

27:26 ↗ discussion um before we get to the point

27:29 ↗ where we actually have a proposal on the

27:30 ↗ table and I'm just uh thinking that um

27:34 ↗ perhaps we can you you already talked to

27:37 ↗ HOAs and other groups about this but I'm

27:40 ↗ wondering if we could do a little bit of

27:41 ↗ more Outreach in some of the communities

27:43 ↗ that right now are feeling very fearful

27:45 ↗ about what's going on so uh for example

27:48 ↗ reaching out to the circle to talk to

27:50 ↗ the Hispanic community and so forth um

27:53 ↗ and just with information about what

27:56 ↗ this is and what this isn't I really

27:58 ↗ liked your slide that was what this

28:01 ↗ isn't um and explaining to people before

28:04 ↗ we get to the point of putting those

28:05 ↗ signs up um right now uh we have a

28:10 ↗ situation we're going to talk about

28:11 ↗ Communications at the council Retreat we

28:14 ↗ have uh a situation where uh rumors and

28:18 ↗ conspiracy theories and all kinds of

28:20 ↗ false information gets going in the

28:22 ↗ community before ahead of us and I'm

28:25 ↗ thinking let's get ahead of that and be

28:28 ↗ be a little bit more proactive and talk

28:30 ↗ to different communities that might be

28:32 ↗ fearful or where conspiracy theories

28:34 ↗ might take hold ahead of time to explain

28:37 ↗ what we're doing um and then so that

28:40 ↗ when uh people uh when these cameras go

28:42 ↗ in um people uh are armed with some

28:47 ↗ information ahead of time rather than us

28:50 ↗ being reactive after after the the fact

28:54 ↗ um but you know I also recognize that

28:57 ↗ some of our minority communities are

28:59 ↗ often the victims of crimes and would

29:02 ↗ very much welcome uh another level of

29:05 ↗ security for this community and so uh as

29:08 ↗ I said I generally I think this is a

29:11 ↗ good proposal and uh I think that it

29:14 ↗ would be uh something that we could use

29:16 ↗ that would be effective tool for law

29:18 ↗ enforcement so I say let's go ahead but

29:21 ↗ let's just think about how we

29:23 ↗ communicate this in this particular time

29:26 ↗ frame in this particular time of History

29:28 ↗ it might be really good for us to try to

29:30 ↗ get ahead of um of the um of the rumors

29:34 ↗ and the conspiracy theories uh instead

29:36 ↗ of be reactive to it does that make

29:39 ↗ sense to you yes ma'am oh

29:42 ↗ okay what's the old quote rumors make it

29:45 ↗ all the way around the world before

29:46 ↗ truth gets it gets their pants on or

29:48 ↗ something there's some some quote like

29:50 ↗ that yeah and I think I think maybe a

29:53 ↗ year ago we wouldn't have had this

29:55 ↗ concern uh but right now it it we're

29:58 ↗ just in a very volatile position uh in

30:02 ↗ environment I think everywhere in our

30:04 ↗ country right now and so I think we just

30:06 ↗ need to be very sensitive and and

30:09 ↗ considera of that thank you so for any

30:13 ↗ new uh Public Safety technology I asked

30:15 ↗ myself four questions when trying to

30:18 ↗ assess the value of it does it make the

30:20 ↗ public safer safer does it make our

30:22 ↗ officers safer does it make our officers

30:25 ↗ more effective and does it prevent or or

30:27 ↗ deter crime um I uh it definitely uh

30:33 ↗ seems like uh it would make officers

30:37 ↗ more effective and prevent or deter

30:39 ↗ crime um so you know the the net

30:43 ↗ positive of this seems obvious to me um

30:46 ↗ the cost uh seems Seems compared to so

30:50 ↗ many of the systems that uh are open to

30:52 ↗ municipalities this

30:54 ↗ seems uh ref ref refle

30:58 ↗ refreshingly uh reasonably priced

31:01 ↗ compared to although you know quantities

31:04 ↗ uh add up and everything but uh uh this

31:07 ↗ doesn't seem like uh shockingly

31:09 ↗ expensive the way say radios are

31:11 ↗ shockingly expensive as systems um so

31:14 ↗ I'm very positive I think that you've

31:16 ↗ pointed out you you've preemptively

31:18 ↗ addressed um some of the concerns that

31:20 ↗ people might have I think that um by

31:24 ↗ being uh by focusing on license plates

31:26 ↗ by not taking biometric data or data

31:29 ↗ about individuals I think that um I'm I

31:33 ↗ I feel like I can already have a

31:34 ↗ conversation with the public uh and that

31:37 ↗ if folks are concerned uh we do live in

31:39 ↗ an era where where people on both ends

31:42 ↗ of the spectrum have lots of opinions

31:44 ↗ about uh their privacy in public and and

31:47 ↗ whatnot but this seems to me uh to be uh

31:51 ↗ A system that uh uh it would be easy to

31:55 ↗ talk to the public about uh any concerns

31:57 ↗ they might have in that way although I I

32:00 ↗ share council member D Michelle's idea

32:02 ↗ that um we would definitely want to get

32:04 ↗ ahead of this and make sure that you

32:06 ↗ know it's far better to uh prevent

32:09 ↗ rumors from starting than trying to

32:10 ↗ stamp them out once they once they've

32:12 ↗ already started

32:14 ↗ so so I'm positive as well um City

32:18 ↗ administrator do you have what you were

32:20 ↗ looking for from us this evening is

32:21 ↗ there other information we could provide

32:23 ↗ for you uh thank you Mr chair uh Deputy

32:26 ↗ council president uh I believe what I'm

32:28 ↗ hearing from the committee is you are

32:30 ↗ all right with us moving forward um as

32:33 ↗ the chief has said we don't have a

32:34 ↗ specific plan in place so our next step

32:36 ↗ would be to put one together uh there

32:38 ↗ will be a financial impact to that uh we

32:41 ↗ will have to assess if that's something

32:42 ↗ we can absorb within current budgets or

32:45 ↗ if we'll need additional resources so

32:48 ↗ we'll come back to you with that um so

32:50 ↗ notification is sufficient once we make

32:53 ↗ a determination would you want us to

32:54 ↗ bring this back to the council the

32:56 ↗ dollar amounts could very well be within

32:59 ↗ the mayor's purchasing Authority so it

33:01 ↗ would not automatically come back before

33:03 ↗ the council so how would you like us

33:05 ↗ once we have a plan in place to let you

33:08 ↗ know and let the larger Community know I

33:10 ↗ mean that's a good question I think one

33:12 ↗ of the things that is informat

33:15 ↗ surprising and informative is the fact

33:16 ↗ that there flock cameras already out

33:18 ↗ there in the community and this hasn't

33:20 ↗ this isn't an issue that's been uh

33:22 ↗ become a problem and and that's even

33:26 ↗ flock cameras in private hand

33:28 ↗ right uh that don't have this

33:30 ↗ necessarily the same uh uh transparency

33:34 ↗ or or you know data auditing uh that we

33:37 ↗ would require um council member D

33:39 ↗ Michelle and as part of our our Council

33:41 ↗ leadership team how do you how do you

33:42 ↗ feel about this question about how this

33:44 ↗ comes

33:45 ↗ back uh

33:47 ↗ wow I you know I think I'm fine with it

33:50 ↗ just being a

33:52 ↗ notification um we have a good case

33:54 ↗ that's been put forward for doing this

33:57 ↗ and

33:58 ↗ um I feel like I could explain why we

34:00 ↗ were moving ahead so um let's let's do

34:04 ↗ it that way if it's yeah let's do it

34:06 ↗ that way and I'll be ready to if it

34:08 ↗ comes back on consent I'll be ready to

34:10 ↗ discuss it in my report if if somebody

34:13 ↗ on the council wants

34:14 ↗ me and our plan would not be to take it

34:17 ↗ to the full Council oh and even on

34:19 ↗ consent just that okay if you would like

34:22 ↗ us to we we could guess the

34:25 ↗ question yes I'm F I'm fine with that

34:29 ↗ okay so we would just notify via email

34:31 ↗ that's fine very good all right thank

34:33 ↗ you appreciate and thanks Chief thank

34:35 ↗ you so much for this presentation this

34:36 ↗ evening I think it was very very

34:38 ↗ effective particularly uh the Aima uh

34:42 ↗ reference information uh really helpful

34:44 ↗ to see how another city has implemented

34:46 ↗ I note that they've seen a reduction in

34:48 ↗ stolen cars over the last few years I

34:50 ↗ would also like to see a reduction in

34:52 ↗ the number of stolen cars thank you for

34:54 ↗ having me also I will forward you over

34:56 ↗ that email as well I'll forward it to um

34:59 ↗ Mr gski about the clerk to forward to

35:03 ↗ you guys regarding the mapping that they

35:06 ↗ have for the intersections and or all

35:08 ↗ the Ingress egress for our city so then

35:11 ↗ you would have a little bit more data

35:12 ↗ also on and to um City administrator so

35:17 ↗ that way everybody has access of

35:19 ↗ information and can see where they may

35:20 ↗ want those as well as I'll put some data

35:23 ↗ with that on where we've seen the

35:24 ↗ majority or most traffic happening to

35:27 ↗ where it may be that would be most

35:29 ↗ beneficial for the

35:31 ↗ recommendation great thank you so much

35:34 ↗ Chief uh and City administrator uh since

35:38 ↗ you've indicated you have everything you

35:39 ↗ need from us we're going to consider

35:41 ↗ this agenda item done uh Deputy council

35:44 ↗ president do you have any announcements

35:46 ↗ I do not I do not as well so therefore

35:48 ↗ we are adjoin adjourned adjoined joined

35:52 ↗ adjourned at uh 7:07 p.m thank you for

35:55 ↗ those watching at home

Approved minutes

Extracted from the next meeting's packet, where this meeting's minutes were approved as a consent-calendar attachment.

Open PDF

Attendance

Council / Members (2)

Tola Marts

Barbara de Michele

Staff (2)

Wally Bobkiewicz, City Administrator

Chris Grabowski, Deputy City Clerk

Excused

Chris Reh

Recommendations & actions (2)

Sentences extracted from the narrative containing words like recommended, requested, directed, moved, or approved. Best-effort — verify against the full minutes for context.

a) It was moved by Deputy Council President de Michele (2nd by Marts) to approve the minutes of January 28, 2025 as presented.
Committee recommended that staff move forward with developing a purchase and implementation plan.