like to talk at the public hearing
there's just no reasoning and welcome to
the August 23rd meeting the Planning
Policy Commission tonight we're going to
have a public hearing on the development
and design standards for Central
Issaquah but before we get into that I
need a motion to approve the minutes of
our last meeting of July the 12th I'd
like to make a motion to approve the
minutes of July 12th are there any
Corrections a second I know I know
second second all those in favor say aye
aye aye opposed motion carries so with
that I'm gonna open up discussion Trish
for what the city proposes for the
aminute land uses great first of all I
have two really big announcements really
big the first really big announcement
emily has joined our small but mighty
long-range planning division staff she's
been here a week we have a moment at the
end
introduce yourself welcome her and tell
her we are so happy to have her here
it's just fun a great week I can't even
begin to explain how happy Kristin and I
are that's number one number two today
the 23rd is the effective date of your
district visions remember all that work
today they went into effect they have
not yet been loaded onto the website
because we had some technical
difficulties however tomorrow bright and
early I'm gonna post them if I can fix
whatever's the matter but I wanted you
all to know thank you again for the
hours and hours and hours and hours you
all spent making them so great so thank
you for that and today is the big day
you may remember that the boundaries we
changed the effective date to change the
boundaries because we're still working
through the destination reached
and the icy zoning piece of those
properties we're going to council in
September to get more direction on that
so the boundaries aren't effective today
just the district visions okay so those
are the two announcements before we dive
into yet another project okay any
questions on those two things Before we
jump in okay
tonight is central Issaquah permitted
use table and you might wonder huh don't
remember this on our work plan why are
why are we doing this well when we
looked at the storage units and the
hotels that perhaps limiting both of
them and when it got through council
they ended up only limiting the storage
self storage units in central they ask
the question why are we only looking at
hotels and self-storage units why don't
we look at all of the permitted uses in
central Issaquah to see if they meet
with what we believe the vision to be
for central Issaquah and so we did a
work session with them and we kind of
did a real basic well okay let's pull
these deuces out and they said that
looks like you should go ahead with that
so that's what we did that's what's in
your packet and also in your packet is
the letter that we sent to over 800
property owners in central Issaquah to
let them know that maybe the permitted
land use table might change that we're
looking at it and we want them to be
involved and we want them to know about
it and to come and talk to you all at
the public hearing so the proposed
changes first off and foremost and I'm
probably gonna save this five more times
no existing businesses are affected if
you're there now you're there now and
we're so happy to have you there now and
there's nothing to change what you're
doing now you're okay there's it's not
we're not making anybody go away that is
very important okay
I'll probably say that again though
we're trying to limit the uses that
aren't the vibrant pedestrian Orient's
oriented that add to all that great
urban part that you all put in the
district visions
and I have some on the top of the letter
we actually pulled out the verbatim
criteria people that we used when we
were pulling limiting uses we also
clarified where the if the uses were
limited and central where they are
permitted in other parts of the city
that aren't in central and aren't in the
urban villages just so a property owner
if they wanted to open another whatever
it is that they had other choices we
also clarified some footnotes so that
some of the uses that maybe didn't sound
on the surface that they were real
pedestrian vibrant like some of the
manufacturing ones that actually kind of
have that cool component you don't like
a coffee roaster or a you know clothing
fabrication we added a footnote that
they have to have a retail component to
kind of have that face on the street
part of it that would make it kind of a
cool a cool urban use and here's the
summary table there aren't many uses
that we actually did pull took for
Proposal you got your jail the
correction facility you have your
heliport and your helipad and your
health stop you've got your agricultural
food processing your building materials
storage and sales your metal fabrication
hazardous waste storage you're getting
sort of a feel for for you know these
are you know sort of loud sort of maybe
more impactful on a neighborhood so this
is the list it's not a really long list
for a permitted use table the footnotes
I mentioned a couple of the footnotes we
clarified about vet clinics and with
animals that that their only accessory
and the storage the boarding has to be
indoors this I told you already about
the light manufacturing that they have
to have a retail component to it that's
the actual language if you missed it in
your packet there's a new one that we
added we realized that because we took
some of the intensive commercial land
I see in the in central we didn't take
it out of I see we took some of the icy
land out of Central and the only pieces
now that are in central are right on the
main road remember when we adjusted the
boundary so there's only like maybe four
we thought that would seem a little odd
to allow adult entertainment facilities
in those four little ones parcels so
we're proposing to add that to the list
of limitations they can still go in all
the other IC that are outside central
but that was one we wanted to add for
your consideration tonight and I also
found two errors in what you all
received and one was we had said we
added a footnote for plant nurseries
that they could display their wares on a
street but then we said they weren't
permitted anywhere so that course
doesn't make sense so plant nurseries
are permitted in these zones that they
were before but the footnote that they
can actually have a display they can't
have storage on the main road but they
can have really cool displays so we
wanted to make that clear for plant
nurseries and the other one error that I
found was we had done this self storage
before the amendment for self storage
went through so it still had the
proposal and not the final version so
this is actually the final version of
self storage okay so those are the the
errors that we corrected just in case
you were curious you might ask
Trish how many acres are in those other
zones where users can go Kristen did a
really great table to show that oddly
enough even though we have retail zoning
and mixed-use residential zoning listed
in our land use code outside central at
this moment we have no land there so
that's that's a good trivia question if
anyone should ask you the other areas we
do have land and lots of land again this
doesn't take into effect that it's
vacant or redevelop a bowl or anything
like that it just is how many acres of
land outside Central but not in the
highlands or talus are in these zones
that we refer to in the in the chart
are there any questions on that okay
this is the zoning map it's hard to see
but it's in your packet if you were
curious you know where is the mixed use
zone and it's not up there you're not
gonna find it up there but where is the
professional office zone that there's
only a few acres left and it's the very
northernmost part of the map
another good trivia question if you get
asked so after tonight you're gonna hear
from the public
we got a few letters I think that I sent
you before the last one one from Lowe's
that they were worried about what if
they wanted to expand and it's okay for
them to expand there's there's criteria
and a process in the central standards
for expanding that doesn't call you a
non-conforming or doesn't refer to
anything like that about being a
permitted use or not and so we I had
sent you that one if you're feeling
comfortable tonight you can make a
recommendation to the council and if
that should happen then we would go to
Landon Shore on September 6th and then
hopefully have council action in October
are there questions about any or all of
this okay so what would I'm done
don't go away this is my presentation in
the public hearing and then I know that
there are a bunch of questions that you
guys have I saw a lot of red lines on
your packet so about if that's okay with
you guys okay so I'm going to open the
public hearing here do it want me over
here open up the public hearing yes
forty-three and asked if there's anybody
who would like to make a comment on the
proposal the central area development is
there anybody who would like to make a
comment yes ma'am I think you're
supposed to say it three times seeing it
no one that is here to discuss or make
any changes to the proposals that the
city is is presenting I'm going to close
the public hearing at 6:44 and open it
up to discussion for the Commission I
know that there were some comments about
going through each one and going through
each group so if I'm what is the
consensus of the Commission is it
sufficient to go through each group to
see if you have questions about the
group I would start John by asking if
right now for some reason the agenda
lists audience comments after our
announcements which are generally at the
conclusion of the meeting so in case
someone from the public decides to pop
in while we're still having a meeting
that we may open up the public comment
later on since right now on the agenda
it's listed at 8:45 right and we were we
were told that we that the agenda has to
have an audience comment section if you
have a public hearing so people that
just show up and want to talk to you
about important things that they have a
spot even though it might not be what
the topic of the public hearing is and
so that's why that's on there doesn't
that usually put prior to our other
business though okay I'm just concerned
about it was marked so late
that in case people were coming by so on
the off chance that someone comes if
somebody comes I don't I don't think
we've ever limited people to make
comments but I did the public hearing
first so to make sure that if there was
suggestions from the community that we
wanted to be aware of before we started
our discussion yeah so since there are
none we're going to go into our
discussion and if anybody who is out
there in the real and would like to come
in and make
any comments specifically about this
would certainly allow them to make a
public comment it won't be in the public
hearing is that phosphorus yeah that's
okay thank you you have a question so in
terms of like a public hearing that
would be on record but public comments
towards the end that's not on record you
know public comments usually end up in
the minutes anyway
okay so what is your suggestion do you
want to go each line or do you want to
go in groups you can still take out the
lines in the group so I think groups
okay oops
starting at the beginning is there any
changes questions about agricultural
resources going on to residential yes
okay so I think it's a good change to
remove the mixed use single-family I'm
wondering if there are any concerns with
still allowing duplexes or single-family
three-to-four attached in the urban core
and mixed-use considering our general
goal is toward more density and
mixed-use presence which those types of
uses would not allow for vertical mix
use so I'm wondering whether anybody has
any concerns on that arena my concern is
that some of the larger Lots such as the
BMC if that was to be taken out as
duplex and put in as duplexes or things
like that well that does build up
potential I'm not sure if it creates the
density and walkability that we are
looking for in this area the rumor BBM
sees moving something no it's just one
of those Lots that is larger and could
sell and become a large swath of housing
that would kind of if something like
that happened whether it's BMC or
another lot it would kind of dictate the
feel of that area so explain to me
exactly what your proposal is well my my
thought process and concern is that our
whole goal in matter whole goal but one
of the things we were concerned about in
looking to change things about the urban
core is to make sure that it is zoned
and prepared for more dense uses and so
I'm concerned looking at urban core and
mixed-use as far as the zoning districts
and still seeing that they allow things
like duplexes which I'm not sure if they
meet that criteria I completely
overlooked that and I have to agree
I really shouldn't let me tell you the
reason I was looking at it is we
eliminated single-family homes from
mixed-use and they weren't allowed in
urban core but I wanted to go a little
bit further and see if there was a
thought process around still allowing
duplexes right I think that's a really
good point we didn't I think we were
going off for the commercial kinds of
uses and we didn't pay that much
attention to that so that's a good catch
Lindsay and would it just are you
thinking just an urban core or an urban
core in mixed juice so I think urban
core and mixed-use because when we had
that conversation about kind of should
we consider that area of an excuse which
what was that called like east lake or
what did we end up with the name on it
but basically we said we don't want that
to continue to be lower density
necessarily than the urban core okay
and the only allowed use then would be
in the dwellings multi-family five or
more units is that what you believe we
would take out both the other two I
don't know exactly where my thoughts are
there other than I envisioned that area
to be vertical mixed-use or higher
density and so whether higher density
would include either more units I mean
if they were vertical that might make
sense if they were all horizontal that
seems to me very similar to a duplex
yeah I agree and and in going with your
train of thought I think if we're going
to take a take away the duplexes then
also taking away the single-family three
to four attached doesn't fit within the
scheme thinking about mattes it's
already eliminated I'm not in urban core
below the line below at Lindsey Glen is
that the one you mean Julie the one yeah
so that one's so removed then so then
your argument you brought up with the
duplexes but then we start going to
single-family three to four attached you
I think it extends to that as well yes
and I would agree that I had all of them
boxed and I think they're probably still
appropriate in village residential and
mixed-use residential considering what
those are but it's really the urban core
and mixed-use zoning districts okay so
it sounds like we're kind of all moving
in that direction is that aligned with
Trish what you guys have been thinking
that makes sense to me now that you said
it out loud I just went right to that we
just went right to the commercial page
so that's a good catch both of you good
catch are we an accessory unit uses now
nothing any common
I'm like Wi-Fi public I do have a
question here so I have a an argument
and vols intensive commercial and this
has actually spans quite a few of them I
won't get into those right now the look
at intensive commercial and I worry that
if we allow too much in intensive
commercial and we start building up in
urban core and mixed-use a lot of these
things that would potentially serve
bests in these urban core mixed use
areas may actually move over to
intensive commercial because of lower
rents and by doing that could actually
push the services and offerings that we
need in defense of commercial outs
because they would not be able to afford
the rents there'd be creating demand an
area that we really need to reserve for
intensive commercial though things like
banquet hall where there's a lot of
higher concentration of people maybe
attending might be best served in a
hotel type environment or in the urban
core where those people's services and
sewing could be met and plus we're
bringing traffic into the urban core and
mixed use areas where there's retail
services where there would not be an
urban core or intensive commercial so
that's my argument for not having an
quite median reception hall in intensive
commercial because it's kind of out of
place but you like all the other things
and then looking here the other thought
was transit station I really should not
be when you look at light I'm - bus taxi
van transit station transit station
probably should not be part of mixed-use
residential or village residential and
intensive commercial that's too heavy I
think for mixed-use residential and
village residential and it's too out of
place for intensive commercial so on
that idea Trish I know there's a
separate one for park-and-ride what then
would be the difference between a
park-and-ride and a transit station I
think I always think of a transit
station as being a little sort of a
little guy like the mini the mini me
that that you would want them everywhere
just to help out your mobility like a
bus stop because I know we call the
Issaquah Transit Center with the
park-and-ride right that but that's
right but it's parking right right but
that's I think of that is the those are
two are big even though one's a park and
ride and ones that but that's I'm not I
would have to check the central
standards to see if we actually have a
definition of what it is and how big it
is I wouldn't want to eliminate bus
stops in any of that's what I assumed I
was reading it was I was I was assuming
like bench you know this you know a bus
stop effectively as a transit station
versus a transit center right so I read
it a little differently than Ron didn't
so I I was thinking that permitting
music everywhere was appropriate so a
definition on that transit station would
right and because it is the bigger
denser ones I would tend to agree with
Ron right and because they're public or
quasi public I'm picturing that there
it's a it's a metro it's a Sound Transit
it's a something that that's a great
you're able to but I can check what the
definition of if there is a definition
of transit station and if it if it's a
if it's only in a big way
can cross that out but you would want a
bus taxi or let me if I'm understanding
you correctly you would want a bus taxi
and a band station could stay there okay
yes yeah I interpret transit station as
like a large yeah all right Park and
Ride structure is separated out so
that's why I didn't it's a good question
right something that we should look into
and then as far as what ron was saying
otherwise as banquet well yeah and just
generally protecting intensive
commercial I think that is a good
thought process and something that we
would definitely want to protect however
I think this is one of those areas that
the market and the existing land uses
would do in itself just because somebody
wouldn't necessarily choose to put their
item there when they could put their
banquet hall in an area that has more
services around it so I would be
inclined to let the market decide that
okay
I would also keep them permitted uses
only because I think of things like the
church down the street that's also now
an Arts Center I think of Pickering barn
I think of rather than necessarily an
establishment coming in and dictating a
banquet hall only situation and being
able to garner a profit from strictly
having that I think of these multi-use
spaces that can be used for that purpose
as well which I think actually does fit
with our live work situations so I
didn't have a problem with that for sure
they're saying oh the idea is to live
work and play so you want transportation
and you want facilities to keep the
people there instead of in their cars
and driving away you have to be really
careful with eliminating a lot of this
stuff
it's good you guys are being so
thoughtful about it was was there a
final determination about banquet-hall
I'm for keeping it teaching it permitted
I think the consensus is keeping
scraping it okay I did to find it odd
that we were allowing the use for the
funeral home mortuary in in the urban
core
I didn't seem to me to be right in line
but again if the administration felt
that that's something we need in a
walkable way I guess means probably
there for convenience but you might not
feel that way to remove it from the
urban core yeah I can see why that would
be one to potentially remove
okay if you're gonna do that again
remove the memorial its Chapel I know
they not go together that's a very good
point unless it's a virtual I don't
think we regulate them express memorial
service so strikeout memorial chapel and
he was questioning our suggestion by
pointing out another thing that is
similar and should not be removed I see
them as having different uses I saw this
being separate one being more you know
ap or the before and maybe a memorial
chapel as though right after and then
park and right so hang on though before
we leave so we're keeping that memorial
chapel but we're not keeping the funeral
okay
oh and they're just in there before okay
that's what I have this is still part of
that section Park & Ride lot or
structure I'm for removing those from
mixed use residential and village
residential lots in mixed use that's a
pretty highly trafficked area and he
said mixed-use residential and village
residential housing you you know they're
so similar the only reason I would
consider keeping it as someone who grew
up in the Bay Area there are a lot of
little Lots where you can kind of have a
bunch of people Park and then commute
together and so I could I don't know
whether that is considered in that kind
of Park and Ride parking lot idea but I
could see that be I feel like we need
more of it and so the idea of
restricting it seems odd to me but I
don't think that this necessarily is a
guiding principle as to where they're
gonna pop down a giant you know Sound
Transit Center so to me the more access
we have in the more places for people to
congregate and use mass transit
more than we're going for so I can see
the idea that it doesn't really fit in
to either of those areas I could be
swayed either way on this but I think
generally transit is better
I want asterisks that and say like a
small or medium limited up to a certain
square class or something like that
number of spaces are something I would
have no expertise at knowing what - yeah
and that wouldn't even make a difference
because it would be the concern of the
vertical versus horizontal are we
looking at park-and-ride strictly is
park-and-ride or if you're doing if
you're putting it in mixed juice you
need parking so you want to change edit
Pacific I mean I think we need parking
so I don't want to limit parking in
either one of these areas yeah I would
leave it I was happy with it being too
crossed okay okay incentives leave it
yeah okay
[Applause]
social services fine go into essential
public facilities anything that
nothing pops up I mean in public outdoor
recreation we really want a variety of
sports fields in the urban core wait
where are you you're skipping ahead
still tube sections early art school
research schools I was like yeah schools
everywhere Morse code like the
unspecified essential public yeah
absolutely yeah that's a state a state
term yeah yep to cover all those things
that we don't know about yet do we want
schools in the urban core and mix juice
and no that's a kind of a saygus yeah
when you say schools are these are we
talking about large schools or small
private schools small charters does this
include everything from Kim on learning
centers it has schools well what is p3
say what is the learning would not
probably here no that would be in the
retail services area this looks mostly
like it wouldn't be private right yeah
yeah so these do include things such as
a high school and things like that
I don't know if they'd ever have enough
land to go in there but if there's a
possibility for us to get a school for
our kids then I think a neighborhood
school is yep okay so done with schools
uh-huh
excellent utilities be pretty hard to
limit utilities just just so you know
what's been going sort of one of those
city requirements you need electric and
yeah sadly sadly that's part of the
reason for being a software recreation
so I'll raise again specifically
regarding fields not to go forward to
the picnic areas but just a variety of
sporting fields and isn't really
anything that we're wanting in the urban
core or mixed-use to be honest if
they're on top of a building
could be I was I'm not touching parks or
picnic area but like for Tibbets and the
area just south of the Lake Sammamish
State Park
there's several actual fields in those
existing areas that I think work quite
nicely and provide access to those types
of things as they currently are yeah I
seen you imagine like you know BMC going
away and turning into a variety of you
know soccer fields navdy acres in
Redmond yeah so so maybe keeping it in
mixed-use residential and village
residential as your argument is saying
you know putting the fields where the
people are but where we're trying to put
our high-density well shouldn't the
people in high-density situations have
access to walkable environments whether
it be soccer fields or schools or parks
I don't know that everything can be
walkable when you live in
a high density true so but if the
possibility exists I think they should
have the ability to have and use those
types of facility well they could just
certainly catch a bus and go up to the
Highlands I mean it's not ones first
jerking their use of the fields it's
just saying do they belong in the urban
core I don't think they belong in the
center of the urban core I agree that
idea maybe they were in core but not the
mixed-use I mean yeah I don't know I
mean can we see that when we talked
about what we're doing we were doing our
tour of like the future of what is right
now home depot and Fred Meyer and
talking about what that is gonna be in
20 years I mean can you see that having
huge chunks of that now being sporting
fields so I mean and you know it quite
honestly now that I think about it more
all of those types of sporting fields
right where they exist right now are
currently outside there well no they're
there in this area but they're already
zoned as community facilities recreation
yeah so like Tibbets down there is
already zoned for that and so again I
would leader Park and I really need like
you know neighborhood picnic area still
wanting to supplant some greenery into
our high-density it's more just about in
sporting field if I'm the only one who
feels that way that's fine if we want to
put soccer fields everywhere well then
play the old sidewall way
Fred Meyer I don't think you know it's
not big enough and some of the areas
have little mouths on them if you want
to call it so you're not going to have a
soccer field it sort of goes up and down
so I think that more of a frisbee golf
thing I hear I hear what you're saying
is if you're a developer and you're
going to be developing in the urban core
or mixed-use the lands too valuable for
it to warrant a soccer field or a
baseball field but if the city says we
need green space and community space
then they may want to create a zone that
could have sports so how would it look
if somebody was going to develop like an
atlas property that has green space in
the middle or something like that and
they decided to make one of those into a
soccer field would that would
eliminating soccer fields as a zoning
mean that they couldn't put that on
their larger property residential
property I would think we would have it
be part of their part of the project
that's what would be just part of their
whatever they call it because the title
is public and quasi public if Atlas
allowed everybody be you know if it's
their own amenity or if it's open to the
but yeah you're right I don't think it's
going to happen a lot that you'd have
enough room for a soccer for a pitch
unless it's an even though even in those
situations it wouldn't be zoned as
public it would be part of their larger
they're so much like you said with
schools they're going to have a field on
it but that's not it it's not a senator
and outdoor recreation it's considered
at school it's personal personally yeah
I don't think so either
valuable to joist point I agree on the
other hand I don't think that whatever
happens there's just too valuable land
mm-hmm I don't want to limit things that
you know could be good but and fit into
the area I don't want to limit people's
ideas there might be a area that they
want them oh we did that with storage
with hotels
I mean we're strongly dictating how we
want certain pockets of the city to look
if you see that as being an acceptable
used to the urban core that's only fine
I just didn't well if we have a hope we
have a health club to go into really
good I'm sure there's a ton of people
who would pay a lot of money to be able
to have access through that and then and
what if it was an indoor soccer field
and I argue that up because actually
real right this is outdoor yeah this
line is outdoor recreation oh there's
qualifiers
I would make the argument for urban core
and mixed-use that it's out but if I'm
if I'm this little person there then
that's that's okay that would be one I
would probably want to talk to the parks
department or look over the parks plan
to see if they have any thoughts about
you know I know they're they're looking
to grab land as it becomes available to
create their larger plan I wonder
whether limiting that would cause them
any problems I wonder whether they would
know I think I'm of the opinion to just
leave it as is and I think that's a
minor point the only question is if
they're able to use it for private use
and exclude larger community from it so
they would be able to so they'd be able
to build their own private soccer field
well if you have if you're a landowner
hmm you should within restrictions you
should be able to do with it what you
want I don't I don't feel that the city
has the right to completely negate
everything that a homeowner or a
landowner can do I have I think there
has to be some give-and-take and good
for the community and I don't I don't
have problem with that I don't think
that we're in this situation this is
public okay where's that public yeah so
it's gotta have some some public assets
right
I saw my hearing that we're leaving them
in both places okay how about a baseball
stadium yeah we can field our own team
as a competition for the Mariners and at
the Issaquah something or other which
one get in
Davian arena and now goodbye Gilman
Villa yeah amphitheater if it's set up
so that it for music and I can
understand that I think that we wanted
one something like that in the State
Park I can see that right maybe you I
think we just wanted to be ready for
things I need comments leave that in out
what is a tot lot it's like behind it's
got the little plastic slide and the
little stuff with Li grab the chips and
on the stadium arena and amphitheater I
think that would be another one where I
would let the market decide okay yeah
recreation got I'm looking here at
amusement part of all miniature golf I
think we should strike it from village
residential and I think miniature golf
should be strikes across the board
because it just doesn't bring enough
revenue I mean miniature golf is like
putt-putt golf I'm sure and fun lands
and merry-go-round well I was my thought
I just know this is not to be decided on
what you particularly yeah I think got
that I mean so I would keep bowling
alley in urban core and mixed-use
bowling alley so I'm thinking like
Bellevue Square Mall where they have the
what is the bowling alley place there
he's like Easter yeah
if that was like a miniature golf thing
in there that that would be permitted
because it's within a larger commercial
Tower minutes not the single use right
have a miniature golf we send a bowling
alley - we had the bowling alley that
you knew it was bowling alley but where
Gold's Gym is mm-hmm
that used to be there used to be an
indoor hmm amusement type park but it
had miniature golf in it
and the market decided then Ron
no more I'm teasing of course it's only
bill that's residential no run you're
saying eliminate village residential for
amusement parlors billiards and
miniature golf
yes okay and then also eliminate
miniature golf and the other two I mean
if we're leaving an amphitheater I don't
understand what they're attacking like
billiards oh great
again I would then defer it back to let
the market decide I mean if someone has
you know an extra large lot and they
want to put up a little mini golf
business I you know yeah the liquor
license I think it sounds like a great
idea but punchy tonight anything else we
leave the whole thing so we let that go
yep but that was fun though okay and
that includes the karate finger and this
bow on the other page recreation for all
yes accessory and temporary
hang on a second so Serena tree yes on
the last one
vending stand not necessary including
expresso food trucks and general retail
merchandise strike from village
residential and mixed-use and my thought
process for that was that we don't do we
really want food trucks in mixed-use
high-rise yeah I do
yes we do and then village residential
is more really residential and would
that be an appropriate place for food
trucks
that's my only argument it's one way to
get services out there because they
don't have yeah it's sort of like a
little mom-and-pop it's a temple service
accessory it has to be connected to
something else they drive in and nobody
buys their product they're not coming
back but if people want them I don't see
how you can restrict them there's just a
discussion starter good any other
thoughts on that one no so we're leaving
it okay
how does it work with the drive-through
window
specifically with urban core
remember when we did all that work on
talking about like the newfangled
walkable Street that's currently like
Mall Street and there was this big thing
about no Drive thrus allowed how does
that then work if drive throughs are
permanent in urban core and where did
you jump under accessory in temporary
drive-through window or station
you know it's permanent in the urban
core but I really I don't have a problem
I'm not suggesting we remove it from the
urban core but curious how that drives
with what we've already done I would
imagine that we're gonna try to limit
them as the time goes on but because
we're still transitioning I don't know
how you would actually do that and
because again this has to be accessory
to something that's existing like
existing Bank existing fast-food
whatever how can you take away coffee
stand coffee yeah we yeah especially
when you have kids in the car and you
don't want to do the car seat thing I
know I would I would have missed a
drive-through coffee back in the day but
and ERDs
and projectors I really I wouldn't
propose removing it I'm just curious how
that would how that goes with what we've
already done right right that's a good
question on how do you how do you try to
limit them as we as we get more dense
but I'm not sure what the answer is but
my next big question is where is the
Issaquah heliport we don't have all that
was weird no
because I remember I tear when we had
John Jackson we remember where was the
bowling alley Kyle but that was here it
was it was a destination retail Sam Kyle
owned it and now it's the office
building yeah it's my real estate
[Laughter]
actually does Swedish have a heliport I
think they call it something else
they have helicopter axes I think they
do they know Jersey kind of at the
hospital yeah it was kind of wandering
right
okay moving right along yeah so Ron
automotive now okay so I wonder why we
eliminated car wash from urban core I
understand
eliminating the automotive and truck
rental that car wash maybe as it relates
to you will station I think it didn't
seem like it was that pedestrian
oriented vibrant kind of a thing
it's sort of what speaking to a joy was
mentioning trying to lean us off of
having those kind of uses right in the
middle of everything but there's
certainly some discussion about even
with the more the manufacturing kinds of
things that some of that is really neat
if you can actually go in and buy it
where it is right there and watch them
while they're manufacturing but to make
sure that the retail component is part
of the manufacturing only in the urban
core no I think for me for and now I'm
jumping ahead for the light
manufacturing part which is a couple
pages later on yeah so with this area
looking at car wash right now the
allowed zones outside of central
Issaquah are are and IC r is residential
right no ours retail and we don't have
any acreage for them so that would be
pretty limiting on a car wash I would
ask what
what the options are for a gas station
that has a carwash attached to it let's
see if we can find gas station in the
list is that I try sorry but I'm sure
it's somewhere have one in mixed use I
know that brown bear carwash and I think
there isn't there one planned right now
for there was one I'm German that
they're doing cleanup activities casting
that would also be I don't neither maybe
we were really trying to wean ourselves
off though so if we could just kind of
ask that questions there's the gas
station - at the end of Gilman isn't it
and that's the poor right service shops
yeah guess car wash you said that gas
station has a gas station so yeah - two
points here then one I don't see
anything about gas or fuel stations no
one Susan found that it sends you to
automotive services on the automotive is
that on the front page you found it I've
lost are you funded under Oh under
accessory and temporary there's
automotive service station and it sends
you to automotive but oh it's under it's
a second time good Thank You audience
it's the second one under insurance
service center okay so what we are
saying with the car wash and automobile
and truck rental line and removing it
from urban core is merely that we
wouldn't want a standalone car wash or a
standalone or or a truck rental place
yeah those would both be standalone
car washes are still permitted if
they're attached to an automobile
service station you could probably make
the case are they under accessory then
we would switch back to accessory to see
if they can do it if they're connected
to something else because would you want
them connected if they're connected to
something else
yes well because gas station yeah I
think the carwash portion of a gas
station can be fairly small I mean you
could make the argument that we're
creating a monopoly you have to own a
gas station in Issaquah to be able to
run a carwash and within the urban core
that's true so am i hearing you wanted
as an accessory use or you don't want it
as an accessories you're hearing we're
having a discussion yes I want to know
if carwash means standalone yeah if it
means any kind of carwash I would say
cuz it's all by itself in the line it's
a standalone same with the rental and
it's not under accessory it's under
automotive as a standalone so then we
think about like automotive detailing
with car washing that exists right now
right but you can't just go into a
detail shop and say I want a very nice
wash you have to have it you have to
have it you know they do it and they
wash it when they're done kind of thing
but you go in there to have the
detailing done but I'm picturing the car
washes like you know the elephant one or
the bear one or the that it's a
standalone all by itself car wash but if
you would want it to be in the accessory
uses as its allowed as part of a car
wash I'm sorry it's allowed as part of a
gas station you could propose that or as
part of or you can allow your detail you
can allow it more places if you want if
you're feeling that we're neglecting
that car wash that we could
we could add it places I'm fine if
carwash means standalone strictly only a
carwash taking it out of the urban core
it is so you're agreeing with that okay
fine
ain't moving on yes I have another one
one second not oh yeah I was looking at
parking lot or garage so parking lot or
garage as commercial is talking about
just a standalone somebody trying to
make money off of somebody parking right
all of that
I really don't want just the standalone
parking lot in the urban core or
mixed-use really you might need them you
know I mean I would rather have them as
Rajas and just stand-alone parking lots
but yeah okay maybe gotta go somewhere
uh-huh good beverage yep so I tracked
that banquet so for mixed use bar or
cavern with light without with or
without live entertainment for mixed-use
residential and my question for that is
that's probably not the appropriate
neighborhood to put a bar or it could be
a perfect place yeah well it's as of
right now it's almost all residential
and its backs right up against the
school so you're putting a bar really
close to a school I just think that it
doesn't mesh with the neighborhood there
today's neighborhood what it looks like
in 20 years from now or 30 years from
now might be a different story but I
didn't think it would work there I also
didn't think that a liquor store should
be otherwise I can't I can't keep track
though where you guys are going no
feedback on bar or tavern in mixed-use
residential I'm trying to leave them
everywhere me to go to the putt-putt
golf to play better golf I probably
better pool of it and then so liquor
store do we want to be able to say you
can have a liquor store in mixed-use
residential and Village residential I
think yeah
those things were around anymore are
those still regulated by the state yes
yeah where you can okay I think so
exclusively don't follow those hours to
enjoy just what I thought okay so it
would be commercial and that would be so
you're thinking of pulling them out of
mixed juice residential and village
residential yeah well I mean think about
like where like the BevMo is up in the
highlands
you know that's within you know walking
distance of homes you think about like
the backside of Gillman village is that
an excuse residential if you could see
you know well we want to keep the
integrity of the neighborhoods if there
was a spill over into that area of a
retail situation I don't know that I
would care if it was a liquor store okay
we've covered the next one with the
driver drive through and without so
there's nothing to argue about that this
next one for hotel lodging Trish quick
question so we didn't make any changes
on the last section right okay but we
had a great discussion thank you okay
Hotel lodging I was curious as you could
remind my addled brain while we had
decided on the hotel when we were going
through guys didn't we're not in favor
of limiting it and that went to counsel
and counsel agreed with you that they
were not in favor of limiting him okay
it's good so this is all in line with we
had already decided right they're all
still there
oh are we on hotel lodging now yes okay
so an interesting conversation with
someone who actually runs on Airbnb
their thought was if the urban core when
it gets built they may want to purchase
large volumes and units and turn them
into Airbnb for Costco we want to allow
something like that to happen basically
they're circumventing the hotel I think
that could potentially be a larger
conversation about Airbnb and temporary
rental uses took my words we're gonna be
part of toning yeah I mean like I think
about what like what Seattle's doing
right now trying to say that the owner
needs to have some sort of stake in the
residence they need to exactly so I mean
that's kind of a separate thing in the
evidence Minnesota uses it isn't a bad
thing to to him on the radar on our
radar at some point right moving on this
for fun Trish do you want to detail what
adult entertainment facilities are for
us do I want to know
slides they are defined in the code
though and and there's a lot of blanks
they not gonna see too many of them
Oh actually to that topic do we even
want to allow it in intensive commercial
this state says we have to allow them
somewhere and that is where we've chosen
to allow them I can't disagree if we
have to then that's where I put it -
yeah and so I shouldn't make an argument
that they belong in miss profuse
residential you could make that but the
putt-putt golf
it's good you can put them all in in one
place oh boy this next section gets to
the crux of two questions I have for you
true hey I'm ready when we got the
Lowe's letter I then went to the table
and I can't seem to find where we're
limiting like home materials the
specific issues they brought up the
building the very bottom one on that
page building material storage and sales
building maturity okay so this is I was
surprised because when we talk about
live-work-play
I mean everyone that needs to repair
their toilets everybody needs to right
build a flower box you know there's a
variety of things that need to happen
even when living in a small footprint
home right though taking that youth out
I didn't quite cuz I think we should
probably still have hardware store in
here where you'd get your those things
that you mentioned but this would
actually be building materials like like
rough material is a PMC right right
right and we were not saying they have
to go away easily and they can expand
even there's a whole procedure in the
central standards on how an existing use
can expand and we never we don't call
them non-conforming any more in central
and so we're just left it what of
building materials well I think the fear
is that they need so much land that if
VMC sold out to its across cedar and not
that we wouldn't love it's across cedar
to expand but all of a sudden then
you've got
some land on a really big street that's
again a real surface use of storage
that's not the vibrant place where
people are walking and meeting and and
doing all those very different
experiences it Issaquah cedar and lumber
[Laughter]
closest friends are at the building the
building places but I think we were just
trying to think of land if large
footprint is more area where the
vibrancy would be and and we have
several of them in central already and
we just figured you know if one came in
in the next open spot would we be like
wow that's a really big piece of land
with a big expansive use on it I just
wonder if thinking about these places
disappearing for one reason or another
and right now if we don't have a home
depot or lowes a BMC and then we've
restricted them anything coming in
mm-hmm that would feel odd you know you
needed to go up to the Highlands or you
know I mean if you actually didn't have
building materials available to you in
where most people are living mm-hmm so I
I think what Trish was saying earlier
was a hardware store would be considered
retail yeah to make sure that so the
difference to me between a hardware
store that provides you the flower box
and the replacement for your toilet
handle and you know all of that versus
something that is building materials
well it's never been building your own
flower box or supplying a flower box by
cedar so would Lowe's and Home Depot be
considered retail I would assume so say
because a lot of their stuff is indoors
and if it's indoors it it can function
just like you know a movie theater
because you don't really know what's
going on in there so I think the
building material storage that with all
that out so it's outside storage that
takes up so much room
even though Home Depot takes up a lot of
room but it's
inside you know you're able to go
vertically with it and I suppose maybe
if you were a building supply and you
were inside and you could go vertical
you could still have the same kind of
footprint feeling of it it would feel a
lot different than going to BMC and not
being able to walk all around it we're
gonna allow gardens which I'm a
proponent of of having outdoor displays
you know having building materials wood
outside right is to me a similar
function Frank I mean I think maybe
you're maybe the argument being one is
more aesthetic versus another but I mean
I like looking at the cedar in lumber I
was surprised by that and so I know I
had actually overlooked it until I saw
the Lowe's letter and so I just wanted
to bring up to everybody that was so for
a follow-up or if you could pick zones
to put them in a new one where would you
pick
I wouldn't mind them in a mixed-use okay
I agree with the urban core taking it
out then I'm surprised that it's out of
intensive commercial since that seems to
be where we like to put things that take
up a lot of space and are maybe less
frequented from retail if I want to play
devil's advocate yeah Oh's Home Depot is
across cedar and lower and BMC they sell
a lot of the same things really not that
different you take up BMC does take up a
lot of empty space but they really fall
into the same industrial category one
the some BMC caters more towards the
contractor but they sell lumber Home
Depot sells lumber low sells lumber
whose koala
cedar and lumber sells lumber I would
disagree but that's because I've
patronized the stores for different
purposes so to you know if you're
looking to buy molding for your house I
wouldn't recommend going to a national
retail chain I would recommend going to
the BMC you know I recently were
embarking on putting here sucking
not shed and I went to Issaquah cedar
and lumber for that rather than a
national chain
however there's plenty of things that I
get well BMC used to sell kitchen
cabinets but let's say BMC's out and
someone else moves in and they sell
kitchen cabinets as well as fluorine and
lumber and that's now I sitting in the
BMC lot you know this is cross seeding
lumber who sells cedar and some flooring
materials then you have Home Depot that
sells flooring materials and kitchen
cabinets and you have loads of cells
Maureen what's the bottom line do you
want I think it should be left where if
Martin let the market decide is it
really comes down to a square footage if
it decides you're saying leave it I say
leave it and let the market decide on
whether or not they can actually build a
business model that's going to be
profitable in that space the Trish I
would leave it as well and mix to use an
intensive commercial but I would strike
it from urban core
that's where Lowe's is now well
obviously they're still allowed and not
not unconformity would put it back in
which one of the two units okay the MU
and an intensive commercial building
materials
okay so mixed-use intensive commercial
and urban core not I would strike it
from urban core okay that goes back to
you only kind of you know thinking about
right so you I would know really the
hand packing urban core is what I tend I
think but you'd put it back in mix juice
and intensive commercial is that a real
I would but what is everybody else thing
if we do that then I would say the
caveat is if the urban core area changes
and Lowe's still wants to what are you
building in the same location area
general area then we should allow that
to happen well Lois can expand if they
want to what I'm saying is if the
Pickering area gets redeveloped into the
urban core and Lowe's wants to move say
where the PCC market might be now we
should allow them to be a
to move within that area and I can do
this so the in other words they reserve
the right to be able to build within
that area again okay that's not
something we could and that I say leave
it so he's my concern with leaving it
whether or not that really fits Lowe's
and Home Depot or just more of a
building supply store is the idea of the
urban core is walkability and vibrancy
and I don't think that a building supply
store a large scale store like that
it's that criteria I agree I think what
would probably help us is figuring out
if something like a Lowe's and a Home
Depot where all of their stuff is
internal whether they would be retail
I'm because I couldn't find hardware
source so I think like an Ace Hardware
would be just under general retail by
the size and those are I just lost my
place but those are allowed most
everywhere up to 125 square feet general
retail service those are everywhere now
125,000 square feet is a huge building
yeah and there and that's everywhere
which is that's what I would imagine
that means that's a very closed which is
about the size of what that would be my
hardware store
so I could still have my ace in my urban
core when I need a new light bulb
remember Louis hardware yeah so this
comes to the point if we're going to
retail 125,000 square feet and on an ace
then we need to allow a Lowe's because
they're really the same thing and what
we're suggesting is that Lowe's and Home
Depot fits into that retail category not
into the building supply right category
okay the reason that Lowe's was
concerned about the building materials
is because a portion of their business
right now you
that external storage and they don't
want to lose that ability so the
argument here if I understand correctly
is to limit is across cedar and lumber
because they are a building materials
only retailer and BMC specifically my
thank you type of business yeah would
also it wouldn't do what they do
okay so BMC sells their building
materials company but what if they sell
kitchen cabinets and they diversify
their portfolio so it's sort of like
Lowe's it's the footprint of all the
outside stash it's not what they're
selling it's it's how they're putting
their items right yeah so for instance
right now an intensive commercial is a
fantastic plumbing supply not I mean
that's not on the inside right
considered Regis retail can crawl inside
exact correct add out to the plumbing
supply I'm thinking like you lumber
yards like an Aberdeen but it's just
strictly logging they're only for
specific people the general public can't
go into those logging yards oh so that's
kind of my head wouldn't you guys are
talking about this not necessarily is a
quasi dirt lover I'm thinking more like
Aberdeen right
and I'm thinking to like like you're
saying like BMC West you can go into the
end of the inside and order your lumber
but you can't actually go into the
stacks until you have the little piece
of paper that you bought whatever it is
and then you can go choose your two by
fours and eight by sixes and all those
things but you can't actually just walk
and visit like you can like it a mole
bucks looking at plants and saying oh
look at all this let's have coffee and
talk about azaleas you really can't do
that at BMC but I'll enjoy you sure
BMC decides to change their business
model to allow you to go pick your
lumber and it comes aloes if they were
to cover all that lumber and put up
doors on it
right so are we ending up in a place
then where Lowe's and Home Depot and
whatever we have agreed that that's part
of big retail and that's everywhere and
so are we back then to being okay with
building material storage and say I was
going away that I missed how you ended
it that we're leaving them to not be
allowed er we're leaving that's the
question
that's why I'm understanding where we
ended up to because Lowe's and Home
Depot in places like that are considered
large retail and they're they can be
anywhere that I'm hearing that we're
okay with building materials storage and
sales to go away as I'm showing here is
that I would be okay to have building
materials stay in mixed-use and
intensive commercial there if I'm the
only one who feels that way but
especially like intensive commercial I
don't have a problem if even further
people on to say Nome excuse but yes to
can intensify so Trish question for you
but the intensive commercial I know you
said that in the central Issaquah area
it's only a few Lots and so the idea was
kind of be careful with what goes there
because it's a very visible set of
intensive commercial right what yeah
what happens if that central Issaquah
intents of commercial expands to include
other stuff well well you all just took
it took them all out okay so that's a
pretty recent action but if it chose to
and the reason you left him in the ones
that are on the street frontage is so
that the special the more strict
standards of central would apply to
those previous owners versus the IMC and
so by allowing them building and storage
on those few parcels they would have the
standards that central would require but
if it's in the rest of
and I see intensive commercial then it
would just follow Title 18 and not be as
strict so joy I think that given the
visibility and the vibrancy that we're
looking for for all of these plots
including those few intents of
commercial I would be opposed having a
building materials shop there okay and
understanding that it would be okay in
intensive commercial outside of central
Issaquah okay so then my thought process
okay so we're leaving them out right I
was like it believing them in intensive
commercial outside of is central
Issaquah okay and the last column yes
alright so are we just flipping the page
we're flipping okay light manufacturing
this is one of my personal favorites me
too why are we targeting the metal
fabricators right now I feel like we
have we have an opportunity to actually
have Issaquah be a hub for the Arts and
I have a personal preference for
industrial art and I don't know why we
would say that metal fabricators was be
able to be allowed a use and while
obviously our current glass shop is not
included since it's an old town there
the it's the exact same purpose you have
to have a glory hole and I would
actually say you create more of a
chemical issue with glass than you even
do with a metal fabricator okay
I was curious process of eliminating
those in specific I thought is metal
really loud metal fabricator when she's
close the garage door you're not gonna I
mean it's just bang it's hammer sound
you hammers
or metal but I mean a different scale
I'm totally open to because that is the
only one we took out of that long list
I'm just not that familiar with metal
fabric what metal fabricators do I don't
know if you actually would consider art
fabrication the same as doing major most
artists need to make a living by also
like you know making functional things
like you know gates for instance you
could say is a more oh that's a good
example
gates versus like I beams yeah it's a
joist point cuz I actually agreed I had
a lot to say that you actually said
exactly so how we were on the same board
I it comes down to the arts really we
want to protect our areas from heavy
fabrication work light fabrication work
maybe gates but mostly the arts like if
someone wants to do sculpture or
something like that we want to allow
that what they're doing they're gonna oh
have a glory hole and then they're you
know so in the arts land yeah does it
cover any metal work you're asking me
Joan about the arts mm-hmm I don't you
know to me in that sense art right you
know it's a small scale or whatever I
look at this as major construction with
the machines going all up on all the
time and bright and sparks and noise and
and stuff so I just look at it
differently I don't know if I would even
put it in the same right aim place right
and I'm not come right when they
mentioned gates all of a sudden I have a
whole different thought of what could
happen in a metal fabrication it is
defined as indoor and thirty thousand
square feet or less right so it is
pretty
that I know of right near a metal
fabricator to know what exactly goes on
there but but that's to be railings you
know right your home could be the bridge
over at confluence park could have been
made by a metal fabricator mm-hmm so I
think to me the defining characteristics
of what you were trying to allow our
things like the coffee roaster or the
brewer or something that would have a
retail front area if we go to that note
it says it's only it's located in the
urban core there shall be a root your
retail component okay so it doesn't have
to have a retail front if it's if it's
not in the urban core it does not have
to have a retail component as I'm
reading footnote 16 16 so maybe that
footnote should actually be yeah in the
church rather than in the land use
description that would be one thing but
then generally I would say the idea of a
coffee roaster or brewery or something
like that that has a retail component is
kind of one of those create something
and sell it to the public and I would
include a metal fabricator and a glass
workshop if in their core because what
I'm thinking is that like basically then
what you're doing let's say let's say
that you are a metal fabricator okay you
do a variety of things at your shop if
you were required to have a retail
component to it which is fine that
you're hiring somebody to man the front
effectively you're probably also going
to be spending more on putting like a
fire appropriate glass so you have a
viewing area in to where you're working
to have that kind of retail connection
to how you're working I mean there's a
different component of how you're
building it so I don't know that I would
want to require that in mixed use you
know if we are going to allow metal
fabricators obviously but I could see
that being something that we would
require in the urban core because we're
saying everybody no matter what your
building needs to have some sort of
connection to the retail that
exclusively an urban core so I would be
for leading metal fabricator since it's
already on a smaller scale but yet not
requiring them to have a retail
component if they're outside of the
urban core because that's them hiring
front staff to just have people doing
foot traffic oh oh what you can do but
do we weren't clarified by maybe saying
we want to restrict heavy industrial
fabrication well it's already right now
for less than 30,000 square feet and all
indoor source were like yeah so
manufacturing general is two spots down
and that's not allowed anywhere except
for intensive commercial break on the
same note I had a also a concern about
the coffee roaster so there is a coffee
roaster in South Seattle off of Highway
5 and when you drive by it as really
super strong odors unless you're living
next to it and after a while a huge the
thought is do we want to restrict the
odours of coffee commercial coffee would
smell like coffee its what a commercial
house we're gonna become the roaster
capital of the Northwest and we're gonna
have them everywhere and it's just like
all it takes is one coffee roaster this
is not a huge operation in this coffee
roaster but the smell is so overwhelming
you've got to understand that this is a
tea drinker is a lot of aroma to it
wrong I mention is something like a
Starbucks roaster store something like
that where they want to do on-site
roasting in order to sell it at less
than 30,000 square feet you're looking
at pretty small and I don't think we
would produce those it's still pretty
big facility but yeah okay
and we could make and we couldn't
right now it's not allowed with homes so
you wouldn't be living next door to it
unless you were living in an apartment
and the urban or Oregon and am I
so just to see if I'm keeping up we're
still allowing all of these that are
listed in the urban core and mixed juice
and I see however we're sticking with
that are we sticking with the retail
only component only for the urban core
as written well is that what is that
what I'm hearing or do or do you also
did I hear for a minute that we were
also thinking of the retail component
for the mixed juice well you know I
hadn't brought that up yet but you are
reading my mind there cuz that was my
next style doing a lot of it fantastic
yeah
either ways you just have light
manufacturing and mixed-use period with
my concern er my thought is we still
want the mixed use area to be walkable
you know retail things like that so I
could go either way on this but I was
gonna bring it up and have a discussion
on it is anybody else could go that way
for mix juice to add the retail
component requirement I only see it an
urban core yeah the retail part like I
like the addition to it for urban core I
think it gives us a lot of fun
possibilities again but I see the urban
core very differently than mixed-use
okay so in Ex juice then it would only
be light manufacturing yeah I mean
obviously they have the option think it
they could do some things but right but
we couldn't no anyway I feel like make
them exactly do we feel like light
manufacturing without a retail component
would be a good fit in the mixed use
area yeah can you see a roaster moving
in do like the Fred Meyer Plaza but you
couldn't see it and you said can you see
a you wouldn't be able to see it you
just hear it and smell it
that's how I feel about the weld and
Barber you're right my next question
then well no I can't go to the next
question then I'll be doing I'll be
someone else so if so that one died not
that we're not doing retail for
mixed-use I said what I heard I mean I
would believe it as written which is
strip no carbon core and Troy Lee doing
I agree
Jason mousse the so then I'm on to the
metal fabricator are we putting the
metal fabricator and metal work our gate
maker or we make are we putting them
back in the the list I would I didn't
see why was I didn't I did why wasn't
hearing a compelling reason from from
staff saying this is why we removed it
okay so I saw several nodding heads so
that yes two though are mended person
want to include glass work helps are we
need to go on yeah it's to me I would
not I would not start adding because I
would just leave how it's been if we
haven't had an issue before I don't know
if we need to start dictating okay so
unless you think like what would happen
if someone wanted to open a glass shop
and Issaquah into the public please
somebody open a glass yeah I'm not sure
what we would call that it if it because
what what's what would you imagine fire
by fire by their preachers like they had
they have a functioning glory hole yeah
right make make stuff on-site so it's a
combo it kind of okay it would be
allowed in the core so I think we're
getting hung up on the on all these
different terms in the brewery micro
brewery winery clothing what if we just
asked all that and just said wait
the retail component no because then you
get a real wild thing come in and it's
like oops so we start listing them
because you don't want the UPS to come
in and be like oh maybe we should well
that's why we listed them because we
wanted to be sure that we got to pick
what could come in and they didn't get
to pick because they're like
manufacturing and it's like oh that's
not what we meant so we tried to like
handpick them there was an experience
okay okay so we're leaving in that
office we're leaving it in but no glass
wall but no glass I would I would give
it at the addition if we don't think
that there's somewhere else in the code
to me it's okay is anybody else up for
glass final I think it's part of art
yeah and it should be what about like a
glass maker who makes like glass stairs
yes oh yeah if you have the money you
can make like free-floating like solid
board stairs or anything
yeah so that you have to and what would
we call it if it was a glass fabric just
like you say metal fabricator you would
say yeah my manufacturer glass metal
slash glass yeah yeah right okay
excellent rush will not yes sir same
topic have you ever heard tap plastics I
have not so tap plastics is kind of like
what you're all referencing to you stare
out there out on table high point yeah
so they have lexan plastic ABS plastic
and so on so they could actually do some
of the same thing as their retail
manufacturer of plastic components
components like fun things like
you Taylor let's say you have a shop and
you need some displays made they will
actually make plexiglass displays for
your products and so as I'm walking down
the street with my tea in my hand and
I'm shopping and I see this retail
component of plastics which I'm seeing
what in the window that compels me that
I want one of those what is it there's
not a lot you my house has a ton of ink
and lighting which i think is hideous so
I'm replacing all of it with vintage
lighting from the turn of the century
which is quite a project this kind of
thing so yeah so I'm taking out there
like the incandescent light right yeah
so I need to conversion I have to
convert all of that so that plastics is
good for me to be able to for electrical
components for me to be able to change
out my existing lighting without needing
to actually drill it out and then have
to you know okay
drywall around it you know there's
different great no I got to what that's
five years I've used have I got the
whole canned light thing but as I'm
walking down our vivacious street and I
see this light manufacturer and I see
their retail window and I say I not both
I've been needing that there they don't
supply them at the Home Depot it's a
specialty product oh and I would have to
get my car and go all the way to Preston
for so it's totally an impulse buy that
I need those wires it's completely
planned you've been looking for your
whole life okay so I'm sensing not
everyone is going with y'all okay it was
a good discussion I learned some more
things any more on the list of light
manufacturing okay anything else on that
list it looks like there's not a lot of
changes on the rest of that page we move
to medical I'm going to medical I like
the second one cross town was already
not allowed yeah
okay office professional financial
okay retail town machines I've got one
here for retail okay
125,000 square feet is a huge building
yep we really want to put that big of a
retail and and huges I don't know that
target is even 125,000 square feet in
mixed use and village residential I mean
urban core um you can't right now
they're not in either one of those you
can you can only go up to right do we
want to limit it and say there's a you
know less than 6000 and up to 6000
because if you put mixed-use residential
it can go out towards Gateway you could
actually have a target out towards
Gateway or there's no land left towards
residential which is mostly non retail
it's all residential right now right
there's no land left right that would be
a very inappropriate place to put
something like another target so Trish
let me ask a larger question is there a
standard size of 125 and more and 125
and less or would there be a reason why
we couldn't look at that and kind of
subdivide further and say yeah we're
okay with you know small retail stores
in mixed-use residential and Village
residential and define what that is we
could those are sort of the the breaking
point of latest standards right you know
by the time you build them and you know
because these can also be vertical they
don't have to be one-story 125,000 they
can be stacked or however you want to do
it
actually Ben I just trusted you Trish I
can't even fathom what 125 versus 130
versus 100 I mean I can't visualize it
right I should have brought my cheat
sheet for 25 is basically the front
facing 416 feet long
we enter and feet deep you obviously
have like oh yes sam's club like a big
box chain yes right I'm not a target a
target would be under 120 all right
anything good out of village residential
because there's no there's no amount of
land that big for village residential
anymore because that's all been spoken
for so I can see taking it out of that
one mixed-use residential I'm not as
sure how how much land is available
there remember that's up to so if it was
60 or if it was whatever that it's that
whole category that you could do in
those yeah because here's the thing I
would be completely fine with a retail
shop of 10 or 20 or maybe 50,000 square
feet you know I don't know where that
line goes but not a hundred thousand
uh-huh well if you want to take a shot
at it and say 80 or whatever it is I
would like to know if there are other
standards that other cities might use or
that the industry might use that would
make sense there in limiting but it
because it feels like there should be a
segment under somewhere in the 0 to 125
thousand square feet 0 to 80 is that it
yeah like how big is a supermarket
generally Front Street is a small
grocery was a small grocery store we oh
we already have that so if you had two
pages earlier 4,000 square feet 200 feet
deep 45 okay so wait on that here a
second because we're looking at the
grocery stores so two pages early over
45,000 square feet yep so they've got
three different sizes they've got large
small and midst
I would think we would want something
like that on the retail side at a mid
scale option so do you want to add 45
and less per retail the consistent right
to add the third category of 45 I don't
approve I don't feel like I have enough
information to define what that number
is I think our question to you is do
others is that a common thing to do is
to break it down even further
or is it like this is the standard thing
everyone does uses the 1:25 mark yeah
okay it feels like there should be
something other cheers it defines a
small and then a mid tier and a large
and if you notice on the grocery and
convenience store the small is basically
zero to four whereas the mid is four to
forty five so that's much larger it's
not just cutting it in half right
so by that same standard I would be more
likely to look at a small retail being
under twelve thousand square feet and
then the mid size being twelve to one
twenty five and then the large that's
that same ten percent ratio so what I
would like to know is if there is a
standard out there and if we could use
that because I think the correct me if
I'm wrong but the general idea is we're
looking at mixed-use residential and
Village residential and saying that
would be most appropriate for small and
then midsize would be most appropriate
for urban core and mixed-use and then my
question would be does large make sense
in any of those does I don't think a
huge big-box store presents an
opportunity for walkability
and vibrancy
other than of course when we already
know and love that is true
and if there was a situation where it
was multiple stories you know that might
make me feel differently so I'm I have
that vision put in the highlands right
okay well I can go back is this
something that I would need that you'd
need to hold this and I need to come
back to you with that or is that
something that I could well what if we
created a category and we passed it
along with this smaller sized category
whether it be Jason's addition of a tee
or we use the 45 that was earlier in the
document and then if you do some
research and you come back and you're
like this is silly you guys are just
making up stuff I would never say it's
almost like a caveat like we see that
there may be space for a more tared
system here right but we're also like
wait doesn't right that would be the
recommendation if you all would agree
that it needs to have more definitions
to it and we trust whatever the research
would be to move those those separations
to the council that way okay and further
I would say while I don't think it makes
sense for a retail of a hundred thousand
square feet to go into mixed-use
residential or village residential if
that's the standard sizing that
everybody's used to I would also trust
the market to make that decision okay so
I think if your point we can just strike
it from urban core right now I mean
we're saying even if the market supports
it there's no way that we want to have
you know equal to or greater than
125,000 square feet in the urban core
what if it was so you're saying no
retail that big what if it was like a
flagship store of Crate and Barrel REI
all of our favorites
right and I think we're saying they
would have to go into the highlands into
mixed-use but not the core okay I mean
actually that brings up a good point
let's say all being decided they want to
come to is across another good one er no
I said another being decided they want
to come to Issaquah yeah Malcolm where
would we put them not the other is their
stores are huge or a Cabela's I heard
huge nagging drawers I mean Heath would
go bonkers to get a Cabela's in here the
revenue so what if they're buried with
them if we weren't to put them in the
urban core or juice Islands Highlands is
another through space to put it and what
if it was vertical what if it was a
vertical Alice yeah yeah 125,000 around
the core
all right on the urban core but
they don't think we should have anything
like this in mixed use or village
residential even as an option you think
you're the large ones large yeah so no
125 or more in mixed use no no yeah Ron
Seng leave it leave it as written so the
first line for greater than 125 we're
saying keep it as written second line
for under 125 we're saying we hope that
it gets split into a medium and a small
okay and only small is permitted and
just for the first two though mixed
juice and village residential or for the
whole line okay just for those four sold
small would be okay in any of that my
thing okay yeah so then how would that
change so we're creating a smaller
category we're saying the smaller
category is allowed across the board
what's than the proposal for right now
middle one then would be only urban core
and mixed-use not mixed-use residential
or village residential we only want
small retailers in mixed cheese mix so
let me see if I got to do that the small
one what if it works it's not
appropriate not what we want for a
vision right but if it's a great
facility with beautiful outside that
offers things for the residents I don't
know what that would be but what if it
was a perfect thing for that area I
can't see how to 25,000 square feet but
I can see something smaller than that
well that's why we're having a smaller
delay right but 45,000 square feet 480
I don't know what 45,000 square feet is
I don't know what kind of a company
would need more or less in the 45 I
can't vision it and so for me to
restrict it down to that is kind of hard
unless I know something more than and
that's why we're asking for the research
yeah fresh corn you know everything
remind me so Alice that would that
parcel that's on you know on the left
when you drive in that had we had the
whole discussion about office previously
that was in the 125 range wasn't that I
think it was 150 yeah it's was supposed
to have a big office there some day but
we weren't successful because then the
market right right it was around that
side yeah right and it was intended for
that right oh yeah I would argue that
that size space is not appropriate in
the mixed-use residential or the village
residential we agree on that yes but the
way it's written here we have an option
in the operator 125 125 thousand and up
to 125 thousand and what we're saying is
a hundred twenty-five thousand is too
much or mixed use residential we want
maybe half that right so we're saying
what's that we would strike the up to
125 from the first two categories of mu
R and the VR however our third category
that we're creating him smaller is
allowed across the board
mm-hm and that would be the small only
would be in the mix juice it would be in
the to residential categories small
would be across until John's point and
we can make that higher even though
we've used 45 earlier in the document
that doesn't unless obviously you
Trish's research shows there's a reason
for these numbers we could up that to 80
so there's a difference between 80 and
the 125 who allows them or something
that had some girth to be able to still
16 so let's figure out what that number
is that make sense hilarious it sound
like we're flexible on the
smaller number right but you want a
small medium and large small only in
mixed-use residential and Village
residential well all of them can be
small but the only retail that can go in
those two are the small the medium is
only urban core and mixed-use and
intensive special is that right and then
125 or more is where yeah okay so that
goes our way - okay you're all in the
same theater if some hesitancy and
putting a huge big-box store but I can
see where it would be good I don't see
how that would be good in the urban core
but if you guys want to live with it and
what the market decide that's fine
there's multi density yeah you can have
an Ikea express where they don't
actually have a warehouse attached to it
that just ruins the worst part of the
shopping experience I've been stuck in
the maze and then I don't even get my
items that sounds terrible yes
right on several levels in Hong Kong
that the IKEA is on several levels and
it it's impossible
oh yeah it pasta I've been there for
days yeah no I've been to Ikea once it's
something like the old cannery all right
where it's an amazing shop you can walk
around and you can walk around for miles
and staff of it's just a warehouse and
the other half is retail okay so we're
having we're gonna move on so we have
three with three feet so no surprise it
makes sense this is the landscape this
is our last page I was oh my gosh I
wanted to I've got a real concern with
dry kini for next use village urban core
was an exception of intensive commercial
but even I worry about intensive
commercial for dry cleaning because the
come
fools are so toxic yes they are get yeah
dry cleaning using chlorinated solvents
is prohibited and those things whatever
that means
Saqqara which is the critical Aquifer
recharge area Thank You Lindsay and time
reading the footnote okay well in that
case I didn't see the 22 the footnote
error
I was looking over for the piezo because
he's got footnotes in both areas so yep
love the footnotes love the footnotes
you can have a store that just wears the
clothes and gets it cleaned off site and
brings it back yes I mean that kind of
facility you need yes technically yes
because a dry cleaning shop if I'm not
mistaken as is actually considered a
hazardous industrial if it has the
solvents there yeah so that's why we we
limit where they can be because we have
a critical Aquifer recharge areas and
and I just further asked where or what
percentage of these areas is class 1 2 &
3
there's a map in the land-use code on
where the cars are and I don't know
those off the top of my they very close
to rivers or near the creek and it's
near though are the wells are water
wells and so varying Fairport just like
I know there's some in all town there's
some by the interchange where that our
water wells are but yeah there's we have
a mall mapped because we're so water
conscious here yep but I can send you
those if if anyone's interested in
seeing where the car is are I think we
should be fine so does that deal with
the concerns removing feed store and
agricultural supply does that mean that
it's not permitted anywhere this was one
of the errors that I found that's true
what we were doing with the feed store
but actually the plant nursery would be
at least the proposal is that would be
allowed while everywhere but destination
retail because we're getting rid of that
zone but the plant nursery would be
permitted would go back in an urban core
mix juice on I see that was an error in
the but what about the feed store and
egg supply that youths would be removed
oh there's not allowed anywhere in in
central central other than where it
already exists correct
questions or comments on that yeah I'm
assuming you got feedback from our
beloved eat store and agricultural
supply right because remember they're
not in central anymore but no I didn't
hear although we don't know where they
are
right that's generally don't well son
lost
okay so we've gone through it and
documented a few changes mm-hmm and so
before we unless you have anything else
to add before we actually vote on it and
recommend that it goes mm-hmm I do see
somebody in the audience and we did
discuss having if anybody came in late
that they would have the opportunity to
make a comment oh I have see anybody who
would like to make a comment you don't
have to gotta do what I said I do and I
appreciate the opportunity thank you
Steve for a town about ten years now I
mean I looked through all this material
and I am NOT versed enough in city code
and and zoning and all that to make
anything articulate I can't talk about
pick up pieces what should be here we
should we can it's just this idea of
this vision or the scope or the sense of
place that we seem to be losing Issaquah
that I can speak to a little bit when we
talk about maybe not lemonade lemonade
big hotels to certain areas when we talk
about maybe not scoping new apartment
complexes to places were they give the
chance to build out a certain area of
the city without impacting schools too
much where we crowd people into places
where the streets aren't allowed I'm
already writing about traffic and clinic
my name is or the things of the sense of
place that we're losing that unless we
take the time to put some more
restrictions based on zoning and code
in place to further limit these things
to limit the heights and all that that
goes with zoning that I don't think we
have in place today until not just me
but people like you that have a greater
influence in scope and say that's okay
that we look at zoning to do things and
not just say the developers want these
things so if we don't allow the
developers to have their say they're
what gonna leave they're gonna be upset
I don't know that I I appreciate their
input but we have a chance to build the
type of place that is why we want to be
and not have our perspective that we
said we're not women going to limit
their concerns or the rights of their
input that's the chance that this
document is to say to limited scope
gives things and I'm asking you to take
those into consideration as you vote and
deliberate and then meantime I obviously
need to do some more homework on things
like zoning and and all that so thank
you again for your time thanks for
serving with that you want to make a
motion to approve what we've just gone
through and send it to land in short I
already hear Trish do you feel like you
have all of our random amendments I have
all your very specific and
well-thought-out changes yeah I don't
make emotions and has them wreck emotion
for as we've discussed in the ether
without having to and the small medium
and large will sort of phrase it that
way and then we'll do some research to
see if we can buttonhole what those
numbers would be okay I'd like to make a
motion that we adopt the findings of
fact as amended in this meeting this
evening second any further discussion
no all those in favor say aye aye
opposed
hearing none the motion passes to older
than I initially yes Oh to the full
council well done okay next meeting
we're gonna start general the
comprehensive plan amendments it's only
September right we have tons of time to
get through all the docket items right
we may not be doing some this year
because some of them like the Turin
master program isn't coming we found out
till next year so that one gets
postponed there's several of them that
our timing didn't line up with one the
project is actually coming forward to us
which is good because there were a lot
on the docket as you guys probably
remember but we're hoping to bring the
land-use element all the pieces of the
land-use element that are on the docket
we're trying to bring that September
13th on since you just had two meetings
off we're figuring you're gonna just be
raring to go in September am i right
you're right excellent anything else and
make sure you're just super sweet to
Emily so she will stay another many
weeks Emily would you like to make a
comment I always like this it would be
nice to to let the community know who
you are and what you look like and
please we are how pleased you are that
you're here
hello commissioners good evening my name
is Emily our touch-a I'm a Senior
Planner your new senior planner working
in long range with Trish and Kristen and
I'm pleased to be here we're pleased to
have you thank you questions for our new
person
thank you very much they are very
appreciative of all the planets because
we know they do an awful lot of work and
so I think having you and having known
you for a long time I just want to
welcome you and thank you for moving to
our cities thank you
good deal Thank You chair good deal with
that with that I'm going to close the
meeting at 8:29 nicely done nicely done
group and thank
you