there he is on air good evening and
welcome to the July 12th meeting in the
planning policy Commission tonight we're
going to have a to continue our public
hearing from June 21st on the Oldtown
sub area plan as usual the first order
of business is the approval of minutes
from June 28th I'd like to make a motion
to approve the meeting minutes from June
28th 2018 suck at the motion is there
any discussion all those in favor say
aye
all right hearing none motion carries I
guess Trish Oh Jason welcome thank you
Jason how do you pronounce your last
thing voice voice right is a new member
that hasn't been able to attend meetings
in June so welcome thank you and I I
know you will be as involved and and
knowledgeable as our other new members
that are sitting at the table so welcome
thank you and with that yep Trish is
gonna give us an up know Kristen is
gonna give us an update on the old town
plan okay
so let's see she's trying to think back
I didn't put a date on here this time of
when the public hearing we first brought
it back and I can't it was mayor Jay I
think believe it was May May 10 no
somewhere around there
June June 14 there we go and it's been
continued a couple of times once we took
a look at boundaries one time we talked
about formula businesses and then most
recently we had some administrative
changes that came up and after
additional review and so that is what we
were going to look at tonight and we
will also make a final decision on
boundaries and then hopefully tonight
there will be a recommendation to the
City Council
so these are this is a list of I'm gonna
go over these a little more clearly but
a list of changes that was made that had
been made since June 21st the last time
that you all saw this it's there in
quality of life vision and then the
policies as well all the way down and
then also into the action programs so
starting with quality of life there is
an expansion of the section just for
clarification purposes first we noted
that it predates suburban a car into car
oriented form of the rest of the city so
it's intended to be my walk can I
interrupt for just one second it are all
of these updates in the version that
they are you received okay that was the
version that they had kind of done that
update yes right so I'll reviews are in
your packet and all these are on the
website as well we added that it came up
in the strategic plan some of the stuff
that has popped up in that that it came
up about three or four times that old
town has a tight-knit feels without put
that in there as well there is been we
added that there's been abuse of parking
particularly near transit stops and by
abusive parking I mean parking somewhere
in front of a shop all day and staying
there all day so that you know people
couldn't get to stores development codes
we added specifically impervious and
parking just to clarify connection to
Issaquah Creek wasn't prioritized and a
loss of neighborhood serving retail I
believe it said loss of a grocery store
and we just broaden that to say some
some neighborhood serving businesses its
yes
the tight-knit feel that you have in the
in the plan mmm-hmm the next word is
small town charm mm-hmm and I'm not sure
it's just my opinion but I don't like
small town okay and you don't have to
change it I just don't consider its
across small town anymore but the old
the old town does does old town have the
small old town charm it's just my
opinion okay nobody else seems to care
so that's my opinion it's on the record
now okay okay
and the vision I've just rearranged a
little bit we added a piece about the
prominence of views of the mountains and
how important it is to keep those and
changed heart of the city to historic
downtown didn't want to offend anybody
alright in community we added 1.8
facilitate active use of sidewalks by
area businesses and we have a section in
our code that allows it it allows it to
happen expedites there we go expedites
the process for businesses in an adze
areas to us so is equal hyelin's is
included
I think rally might be included in it
and then add an old town to help
expedite having serving restaurants you
know having restaurants or food or
flowers outside or whatever it is and
then remove specifics regarding on how
to update the standard stating only that
we want to remain consistent with the
existing scale and character exactly
what that's going to be will be
addressed when we do the standards next
year so in connectivity and mobility we
just clarified that we want to improve
connections not only to other areas but
also within Old Town and got a little
specific there for example by adding
sidewalks and missing non-motorized
improvements so bike lanes and sidewalks
and then in 2.9 increase the
availability of parking spaces in Old
Town specifically by reducing the
abusive use of free parking which I
talked about earlier and then adding
particularly sorry my words are not here
adding limited parking as well limited
parking so either through meters or just
people who come by and mark your tires
that kind of thing
ma for environment in slips that's
supposed to be crossed out instead
required or we just require we just said
use limited building heights as opposed
to step backs which would potentially
mean lowering heights because right now
you can go up to 4 storeys with step
backs we talked about that earlier so
once you can go up to 3 storeys and then
once you get to 4 you have to move a
back 10 feet or 15 feet whatever it may
be to help preserve views
and this is saying actually instead of
using step backs just lower the building
heights altogether and then the other
one we just broadened it out instead of
the green necklace to an integrated park
system economic vitality we removed the
four point three regarding the exemption
expansion of fiber infrastructure and
then four point four there was initially
has to have formula businesses so we
talked about that the administration did
not have a formal recommendation but
based on things that we've heard based
on conversations that you all had and
it's kind of going in two different
directions on limiting the uses are
limiting or monitor requiring a
character and styles that we're now
leaning to our recommendation is to just
lean the way of less control the
character of Old Town let's regulate the
character and design of Old Town and see
what happens that way
so retain and enhance the vitality of
the historic shopping core of the city
through zoning code updates and
prioritized small-scale local businesses
neighborhood serving retail grocery and
restaurant uses and to the conservation
of larger auto oriented commercial
spaces into Main Street compatible
developments so that they would look
like the rest of Main Street any
questions
and then we also added 4.10 to
facilitate community events and black
parties housing in the goal we clarified
that we will add a minimal number of
housing units to Old Town and well we
won't add we will allow the addition of
minimal housing units and they deleted
5.2 which allowed for various types of
housing which was kind of a duplicate of
one below it and replaced it with reduce
allowable heights in higher density
areas to maintain the character and
scale of residential neighborhoods so
that would be in the multifamily high
and the single-family duplex areas we
talked about that on our tour and then
5.3 toxa is the one the duplicate that
talks about allowing different types of
housing but we removed micro housing and
cottage housing is options in Old Town
with the idea that those would create
more density than the minimal density we
want to allow the Action Programme for
19 or 20 19 to 20 20 which is our
short-term next year
we added three one is to develop
incentives that reduce parking
requirements for neighborhood oriented
commercial projects we added code
revisions to expand the sidewalk use
district which is what I talked about a
few minutes ago and we added adjust old
town boundaries as adopted which we'll
talk about that in a few minutes okay
and for the short term 2021 to 2022 is a
create streamline City process to allow
old town street closures to facilitate
neighborhood and community events okay
so for the words for the text the
policies the goals the vision and the
action program that's what we have any
thoughts or comments before we move on
got a couple of questions I'll go ahead
oh and I was actually gonna wait till we
were done with the packet to ask them
but I'll quite ask them now going back
to section 2.9 and related to section 4
number 15 parking talks about develop
incentives that reduce parking
requirements for neighborhood oriented
commercial projects why are we
incentivizing people to have less
parking or we make it a part of code and
to or are people going to park if they
want to shop the ball talent you mean if
we reduce parking well right now it's so
it would only be reduced for the private
property owners who redevelop their
properties and part of that is their
struttin Keith you may need to jump in
here but part of that is is that the
property owners are having finding it
difficult to develop their properties
with the current requirements that we
have so we need to update those so this
is we tried a different tact to than the
formula based businesses because I think
you know there was a there's a sense
that I think we had based on your guys's
deliberations as well as the letter we
got from the chamber and the one from
the EVC that said hey take longer think
about this so what we did is we said
well okay we we kind of teed up the
formula based business conversation in
response to some public comments we got
about Dollar Tree going in right and so
as as that conversation unfolded it
became less about Dollar Tree and more
about a conversation that the retail on
Front Street is doing two things it's in
one way it's serving you've got the
restaurants that are serving tourists
and tourist destination type businesses
but you also have businesses that are
serving the neighborhoods that are part
of Old Town and so what this is talking
about is if somebody were to come in
let's say
say that the teriyaki place goes out
right and a retailer wants to come in
and do and we heard this last time
someone talked about when they moved
here there was a dress shop on Front
Street not to say that we're gonna get a
dress shop but let's assume there was
something small-scale like that that was
really geared towards the surrounding
neighborhood if they wanted to go in
there but maybe there was a problem
because there wasn't enough parking for
code or some other reason what this is
saying is we should look for ways to
prioritize neighborhoods serving retail
if it is neighborhood serving in theory
they're not trying to get people to come
there from the rest of the city that are
driving right so the parking issue is a
function of what's being proposed there
now this is again we're teeing this up
as an idea to potentially inso problem
with incentives is we don't have a lot
in our toolbox I don't have you know
subsidies that the city can offer to get
a a retail or on Front Street but if you
could say you know what we're gonna not
require you to provide any parking
because the two or three spaces are part
of the general public parking that's in
the vicinity and we're gonna be fine
with that that's a that's a policy
decision that then gets turned into a
code decision but this is where we had
that conversation of is that the right
thing to do or do we just let the market
handle front street and whatever comes
comes and we'll hope that it's good
stuff and so this is that conversation
point where do we do something to try
and maybe bend the curve a little bit if
it needs to be bent so it's I'm not
saying it's a good idea I'm saying it's
here for a conversation and this is this
is the way this works is is you guys
tell us whether you think that's a good
idea or not okay I've got a couple more
comments about it but I can hold off
from my comments until the
people can talk about thank you for
giving that more thorough explanation
because I wasn't connecting the dots
between having something that was a
neighbourhood oriented and parking
requirements I generally think like that
that is a good connection I would be
interested how it would be codified and
what would be defined as neighbourhood
oriented which yes yeah we have we would
have to have that conversation but I
think in general one of the glances
we've lost the grocery store we want to
make sure that if that was you know in
order to incentivize that coming back
I think reducing parking requirements
makes a lot of sense and if you include
that in the plan then that's a
conversation that can be had because
that's part of the vision that says this
is what we want to get to so what are
the current parking requirements oh my
gosh they do and they sit in the end in
the CBD it's different than the rest of
the city but it's a little bit lower in
the rest of the city and if you have a
certain amount of square footage like
three it's not as low as central but
it's not as high as the rest of the city
somewhere in the middle all right I'm
sorry no that's okay okay yeah okay okay
yeah already I move on to boundary all
right are you done
well there's with that stuff I shouldn't
awk about the boundary real quick so do
you clarification do you want to talk
about the boundaries now or wait till
after they open house okay do you
understand the question
we open up the pub public hearing to
discuss their thoughts and then talk
about the rezone the change in the yeah
but you're phoning in the southern end
yeah and if we can only oh if we can
only open it one time then we'd want to
present the options for we're going to
keep the boundaries as well do it right
we're going to continue the public
hearing so do you want to continue the
public hearing and then discuss it yes
Oh prefer here the community first okay
so mmm but do we want to hear the
community be right but you pursue the
bound I would like to hear your thoughts
on why and what the value and changing
that particular piece of property okay
so I will then we'll have the okay so I
will let you know that after June 21st
we sent out about a hundred and fifty
letters to all the property owners
within the northern area that's been
discussed and the southern area that's
been discussed just to let them know
that changes were being proposed
nothing's happened but that there was a
public hearing tonight I heard from four
residents about it right now and so
there are four options mm-hmm and I'm
not really gonna speak to this southern
portion of it right now
but as to the northern portion the city
is leaning towards not including that
area in Old Town reason being after the
route 10 old route 10 destination retail
discussions the standards that we are
winding up with there are still closer
to central Issaquah than they are to Old
Town where we are talking about
potentially reducing building heights
there and not really increasing the
densities that much
so we're there going in opposite
directions so the city right now is not
leaning towards adding the northern
portion to it but that's the city's
stance but there are still four options
one is option A which is to just leave
it as it is and don't touch the
boundaries option B is to take what
exists now
and add old route 10 option C is to
remove the southern portion of what's
there now and add old route 10 an option
D is to not add old route 10 but take
out the southern portion I kind of
spelled out up there
but in when I talk to people I would let
you know when I talk to people questions
came up and we put it up on the website
eventually but questions came up like
can I still vote if we're taken out of
the Old Town sub area and yes you're
still in this choir you can still vote
does it change our school district
boundaries no it does not change the
school district boundaries does it
change budgeting for capital
improvements in our area no because
capital improvements are not determined
by sub areas am I going to be resumed no
there's no proposal to do that I did
tell them that there have been
discussions that haven't really come to
fruition yet but discussions about
potentially expanding design standards
to include all of Old Town but that
nothing's been decided and you know it's
so if they were to remain in Old Town
that that might happen but if they're
outside of Old Town then if that happens
it wouldn't apply to them so those are
some of the conversations that I've had
with people I'm just to let you know so
when we talked the last time you were
going to actually do some contacting who
in the area you get a better clearer
idea of what they felt I know you've had
some questions but did you go and do any
other we did not go out and go any door
to do any door-to-door things but we did
send out the letters to people okay
listen
okay now letters included maps okay yeah
before our last meeting or is this no it
was on the 21st
I think the letters went out on the 28th
thank you
the letters went out on the 28th okay so
after our meeting I just know that if
you all requested it on the 21st and we
did it the following week that's up
okay okay so we have four options to
consider mm-hm and with that with that I
am done so not that I don't want you to
be done very good presentation I'm going
to continue the public hearing and ask
if there is anybody here that would like
to comment on where we're going with the
old town area would anybody like to
comment please come to the microphone
good evening my name's Chris Craven I
live at 580 Front Street I did receive
the one-page one map notice from the
28th and so I'm here tonight to comment
I have to say I probably have more
questions than comments
there's no no explanation no link to the
studies or the reason or any of the
background information that you may have
I know I was here at the beginning of
this process commented about the desire
to change the northern boundary from its
existing location to south of the bridge
and for the same reason I have concerns
about removing the southern section in
that design standards allow us to create
neighborhoods that have character front
street from north to south is a gateway
into Old Town and my fear is without
being in that sub area that it just
continues to degrade in its character
and its upgrades and in its standards
again I have a lot of questions what's
the advantage of taking the southern
portion out of the sub plan what what's
the purpose of that what does it mean to
be taken out of the sub plan what what
others
standards or you know overlays are
applicable once we get taken out of the
the old town designation there's a lot
of residents in that area and the
connection on the Rainier Trail to this
area is important and the character and
the overall you know fitting in with the
neighborhood is important so all those
connections I think are important and
reason to give a very good sound reason
why it's being proposed to be taken out
and I don't know what that is
thank you
either I'm speaking for four bones
Kandi's designation of which if we're on
that map or which map are on because we
did not get the flyer we're at 2:55
North East Gilman Boulevard but we saw
some of you a couple weeks ago here
where we decided about the destination
retail land uses and we aren't sure if
again I may be out of turn maybe
somebody could correct me here but if we
are in one of these different boundaries
we like what we came up with which the
PBC agreed with On June 28 and we're
hoping whether we change into a bold
town or back into central or whatever
that the standards that were agreed upon
by your commission will stay with
whatever area you put us in we heard
something about maybe like mixed-use or
something like that that's great if the
standards are more but we would like the
minimum for our end of Gilman Boulevard
to be what you the Commission decided
last on the 28th of June so again I'm
not even sure if we're in this I just
wanted to make sure if we are that our
voices are heard from what was decided
on the on the 28th thank you anybody
else like to make a comment
I stupid old town about ten years so I'm
doing best to be here I'm coming in late
so this topic just the boundary section
or are there topics as well I'm sorry so
as I said I'm trying my best to be here
for all of these I'm running a little
bit late I'm not sure if the topic is
just the boundaries at this point or if
it's broader of comments okay so I guess
starting with the boundary I guess I'd
start with the idea of the process being
not adequate and the old route town was
looked at as an old neighborhood that
still needs to be looked at from a
broader community vision needs to happen
I think that's true of removing the
southern portions as well there are
people that concern themselves part of
Old Town and if we're not looking at it
is can or should there be a different
vision for the old Old Town or for area
as far as zoning and all that maybe
there should be and that should be part
of the discussion and the vision that
the city has as a whole that discussion
hasn't happy and it should happen
should it be three storeys five storeys
whatever that is that discussion needs
to happen as far as the boundary and I
don't know the streets there's that
along the old route ten where it hooks
up with drives down narrows down to one
lane there is some modern buildings back
in there the office buildings that's
being proposed to be in Old Town yet
that for the same reason that doesn't
seem like that really fits the scale in
character of Old Town so I'm not sure
why that's being considered part of Old
Town maybe that should be looked at as
owning for something different I don't
have the answer yet but it just doesn't
seem that's part of what we're saying is
the Old Town I would hate to see
different standards to accommodate them
being opposed for route 10
neighbourhoods that shouldn't have that
look and feel just to accommodate them
overall on the
design standards it's more we're still
approaching it from the perspective of
what developers wants as far as height
and density and all that we need to go
back and look what does the neighborhood
and one of the communities want not what
can we accommodate from the business
standpoint I still think that there's a
proposal to our desire to the current
standards don't meet but I don't think
even the reduce to three storeys and
increased pervious services meet the
design standards the requirements of
what Old Town was required as suggested
that it be developers had a long time to
make development they haven't unless we
limit Old Town to what it is and should
be that's out of character with what the
people of this quad said they want Old
Town to be if all we're doing is
increase the density increasing the
pervious service and increasing the
parking requirements all we're doing is
expanding the central Issaquah plan
doing cool the whole town that's not
what Old Town has ever been about so
please keep that in mind and vote
accordingly and lastly the I'm going to
phrase this wrong the chain stores or
can you have different businesses like
let's say it's Starbucks or a franchise
business in areas I think you've opened
up the hall to central Issaquah plan we
have lots of the chances in areas that
those can thrive I think if you don't
limit franchise stores even if you keep
the building standards and height you're
going to change the character of it
you've got lots of room and lots of
places development up for development
for franchise businesses to go you're
losing the character of the neighborhood
it seems like an example would be
you used to have a grocery store used to
be down there and now it's going to be
different business yet if you limited
franchise stores maybe it would have
been a grocery store again with the red
apple market having been there and
located so I think now's a chance an
opportunity to retain that charm and
character I think if you tried to change
something was designed to seems like I
made a switch and if you try to do that
in Dallas or the Highlands they would be
up in arms all down doesn't have that
same homeowners association to fight for
it and I think a lot of people have
given up so again again guess I'm
looking for you to retain something
that's going to be lost if you increase
the height and the density and the
pervious surface requirements thank you
anybody else like to make a comment
before I close the public hearing I
received a letter email from the chamber
that updates their position it should
have gone to Trish to forward to the
committee here but I got it like five
o'clock this evening so I'd like to read
it into the minutes since they're not
here to read it themselves the greater
Issaquah chamber would like to clarify
position regarding formula businesses
the new changes in the old plan still
addresses formula businesses however we
believe what the core issue in solution
should be to create clear guidelines and
standards that will identify the look
and feel desired for Old Town the
enforcement of guidelines regarding
design will be essential to the economic
vitality an energetic look and feel feel
Warren Shore old towns prosperity
limiting the types of businesses will
not bring about the desired
redevelopment and visioning we need old
town we need in old town a great example
would be in Leavenworth the Starbucks
looks great and its remit it
is a tremendous asset to both the
community and surrounding businesses so
unless there is some other comment from
the community I'm going to close the
public hearing at 7:05 and open it up
for discussion there are several issues
that have to be discussed tonight one of
them being the boundary that is up on
the screen before we do that I know that
there's reasons for doing this and as as
member of the community has questions I
think we should answer those questions
before we get are they're valid
questions and so I think everybody
should know what they are so I'm gonna
address some of these but I'm gonna
allow the Commission to address some as
well because it was the Commission's
discussion right so I'm gonna address
some of it and I wrote them all down but
I'll so the questions were the
advantages purpose which those two I
think you all could probably address
what does it mean I could do overlays
and zoning and then connections and oops
my glasses oh fitting in with
neighborhood which I believe was more of
a statement than a question but we can
see you all can still address that as
well does that work oh and I do want to
clarify too that bums is in there you
should have received a letter we use the
same one that we did for the retail for
the reasons so if it didn't make it
directly to you I apologize but I it was
sent to you all but bombs is included in
both B and C up here because it is very
hard to see I apologize but it's up
there
so as for what does it mean I'm going to
start with going outside of Old Town if
this area is taken out of old town it
would either be come part of another sub
area or it would become its own sub area
and that would be decided during the
Comprehensive Plan process which starts
next month I believe even maybe this
month actually the sub areas would be a
discussion later in the fall
but that would become part of the
Comprehensive Plan process as for the
zoning and the standards those don't
change all the standards that apply now
to any redevelopment in that area would
continue a plot to apply to this area
that doesn't change at all there are no
overlays here so there's nothing
additional that would happen right there
as I mentioned earlier it doesn't change
school boundaries it doesn't affect
voting rights
it doesn't affect city budget and any
capital improvements that that might
happen in this area because that's not
determined by sub area so as far as the
questions that have come up so far from
the public that's all that I let's come
up and all that I can think of if you
all have any others that you can think
of the people might so the one thing
sorry I tried to be loud so the one
thing that is to keep in mind is so this
plan has a lot of action items in terms
of changing building heights adding
potentially design guidelines for
single-family so as you think about this
and how it would apply to areas keep in
mind that there are some things that may
not be in place today that would become
part of this sub area and that would be
adopted later and so just because
there's maybe no design guidelines on
single-family now that is one of the
recommendations that if it gets carried
through and adopted by the City Council
that would be a follow-up action item
for us which would then apply to an area
that at this time does not have design
guidelines and so for someone who may
want more city oversight you know being
part of this sub area has its advantages
because there's a level of detail that's
in this area that's not not in this area
for example for someone like BOMs who I
think have asked for them to be less
regulated there's some disadvantages
potentially about being in central or
Old Town versus not being in Old Town so
as you think about the boundaries and
how it
property owners there's definitely
advantages and disadvantages but
different property owners may see
certain things as advantages where
others might see them as disadvantages
but today there's if weather booms is in
or out as an example they wouldn't see
any design change they wouldn't see any
code change if they're in then design if
there are design guidelines that would
apply then to the mixed use area that
would affect bones so right now makes
you so it what we were calling a
destination retail let's just today
assume that that ball lands on makes you
says as far as its name if that happens
if that area gets incorporated into old
town then it could very well be that we
decide that the same design standards
for the CBD should apply to the mixed
use area as well we could we may not we
may not but we were basically regulating
everything else
design-wise in old town and so I would
pose to you guys well shouldn't there be
some design guidelines for the mixed use
area as well if it's an old town since
the rest of the whole sub area is being
regulated in design so but that's a good
another company and so yeah when I was
speaking I was speaking of being out
only and Keith started talking about
being in and you know it's the same
thing applies not only to old about 10
but if you're the southern portion and I
mentioned this earlier that there's been
talk of potentially expanding
single-family and duplex design
standards and if those areas to the
south are left in they also could have
design standards applied to those areas
as well I don't know it hasn't happened
yet and we're going to talk about the
standards next year but that's a
potential so I think we've covered
advantages what does it mean overlays
zoning the connections won't change you
know the the parks we didn't have a new
parks plan and we're about to have a new
parks planning connections are huge such
as that's a citywide thing again not a
sub area thing so that those connections
are not affected by anything that might
happen here
and fitting in the night with in with
the neighborhood again would be
addressed by design standards if that's
something that they stay in and they
want to see happen and that would be a
discussion next year
so as for purpose I'm gonna let you all
address that I just I just want to be
clear I'm having a hard time to be clear
can we go back to the map and when
you're discussing ins and outs could you
specifically show it on the map I know
you had those four signs but sometimes
it's not quite clear better so the two
areas that I'm talking about are this is
the southern portion which has been
discussed as being removed and this is
the northern portion which is the old
route ten destination retail mixed-use
area that has been discussed as
potentially being added okay so there
are two decisions to be made two
decisions to be made that's all I wanted
to make clarify that there are two
decisions tonight which areas you want
in or out and as far as the purpose and
the reason that this came up I think
thinking through the history of PBC one
of the things that happened when we were
looking at the central Issaquah plan was
that the old route 10 area was in that
and we looked at that and it went well
central Issyk was about creating more
businesses mixed-use increased density
you know adding do we want to be adding
to this area so it was PBC's
recommendation that that particular area
not be included in the central Issaquah
plan well when you take something out of
a sub area you have to designate a sub
area and so when the next thing that we
were talking about was the old town sub
area the idea came up to include that in
there as
PBC discussed whether or not it fit the
same general feeling as old town and
then once we opened up the boundary idea
it was also well does the southern
portion fit the requirements that we're
gonna have there and so that was kind of
why I think this came up for us just to
clarify so with the northern portion it
sounds like in addition to deciding if
we add it to Old Town we need a second
option either/or where we either
additive old town or we make it its own
no your decision tonight is whether to
add it to old town or not that's it if
it doesn't get added old town where does
it go we figure that out in the fall
with the comprehensive plan amendments
because we have to redo that sub area
map we have to we have to redo it anyway
in call plan yeah so in the past weeks
some of the questions I've asked was
about architectural standards and my
understanding was that if we remove the
southern portion of the old town from
these old towns of area plan that there
are no architectural standards today
that would regulate those developments
if someone came in and decide to develop
which are different than the design
standards that you're talking about
Keith's right or is architectural
standards and design centers to say no
we have to separate things so we have
where the old town design standards and
the old town design standards are very
specific and they apply to the cultural
and business district and departed
excuse me to part of East sunset way
that's that's all that they apply to so
everything else in the rest of Old Town
falls under the Issaquah Municipal Code
the IMC and chapter 18 the land-use code
and we have something in there called
green sheets that talk about
architectural standards but they're
pretty vague pretty general and that's
what applies to the rest of it so if
that area nothing in the design
standards applies currently to the south
or to the north and if so if those came
out thieves
same standards that apply today would
apply then well one of the our public
here had a concern about how it may
change her neighborhood if she is pulled
out of the old town and the answer is
there would be no change so if a
developer came in today to develop a
piece of land whether you are in the old
town or not the building could still get
there Keith right so today no two days
but later considering it seems like the
direction of our the architectural
standards or at least the discussion is
going to happen about whether or not we
want to apply it more broadly right if
it is taken out no today or tomorrow
there would be no changes if it's taken
out tomorrow if it's left in today the
standards would be the same at the
beginning of the next year the standards
may be different because standards that
apply currently in olives in parts of
Old Town may apply to all of to Olive
Oyl town so if you lived there and you
were concerned about your neighbors
house and how it looks I would want to
be an old old town and not not in Old
Town not that it changes today but what
at least is is coming potentially is is
the application of a higher design in
architecture for that area that's in the
brown then what's there today so if I
want more regulations in in aesthetics
in my neighborhood I would want to be an
Old Town because where this is all
pointed is to add more requirements than
what's there today if I didn't want that
I would not want to be an Old Town there
could still be a sub area conversation
to the south I think this is sycamore
where we could we could add design
guidelines to that at some point in the
future but there is no conversation
about that now so that's that's I think
that's the difference about height
because it sounds like we're having a
conversation about how old town wants
buildings to have lower-right
requirement right so if that does end up
being adopted those areas down there
would be quote unquote protected from
big buildings coming in as their
next-door neighbors if if we decided and
if you all just said the council decided
to expand those design standards then
yes that could happen so how does I
understand the school district has their
own I am is it is it effective in any
way in or out it's like no okay still in
Issaquah and it still falls within the
Issaquah school district it does not
this is simply for city purposes to more
easily identifying neighborhoods or
areas of the city so it's just for our I
mean the design of school no I'm just
talking about the lines the lines that
are drawn don't affect school boundaries
they don't affect those just for our
purposes so the building heights are a
function of zoning and school district
remember we went through the compact
schools cff changed the standards that
applies okay regardless the zoning
that's at the south end of full town I
don't know what that zoning is I'll be
candid so we've talked about reducing
Heights in the CBD and in the
multifamily okay so so we've talked
about pulling those down to a maximum of
three stories so that would if that's
what that sound that that would affect
that area if it stays in Old Town
I want to just take it up a level and
ask a question and I you know because
I'm new to the PPC I just want to make
sure I understand what what's the point
of the sub areas overall and I don't
know if this is for my fellow
commissioners or for city staff but is
it to direct and congregate similar land
use and architectural review and
different things like that or is it to
actually create and/or create actual
community feeling within these different
sub areas I'm trying to understand kind
of what the original genesis of breaking
up our city into these was because that
will help me more better understand kind
of what what we're trying to do here so
any anyone want to take a crack at that
because the city is so large and it's so
different when we tried to Percel it out
so that it's easier to talk about
different areas based on some of the
attributes that they have obviously Old
Town started out as the original grid so
it was the the certain architecture the
small scale the grid system and then
different areas that came in either were
a sub area because the annex that way or
because they had a certain certain
attributes so that you could talk about
them like the sycamore neighborhood is
pretty much the whole Sycamore
neighborhood but as things have shifted
like when central was invented we sort
of hand-picked parts of other sub areas
to create sort of this new place where
we would have job density and more
housing density so we had to sort of
shift the other sub areas around it and
so this is sort of what we're doing as
Lindsey mentioned with taking something
out of central it started sort of a
ripple effect of well now we're doing
Old Town let's look at that boundary
because maybe there's a ripple effect
that we want to you know moosh those
boundaries a little bit as well but the
only central is the only sub area that
actually had different zoning within it
so that's what the is causing us to
rethink the zoning for those parcels
taken out for Old Town to be in and out
at this moment does not change your
zoning like it did for central so that's
a little bit different of the ripple
effect why that's the old
part is different than the central plan
part thank you does that help it does
but it sounds like it there's a high
likelihood in the near future that the
zoning might change in this sub area as
well right right by design because you
all have asked for that as part of the
plan right all the time plan update
right well I don't not that the zoning
would change but that the developers
dreams okay and then specifically I just
want to make sure we're really clear on
the rationale for pulling out the
southern portion what what are the top
two reasons for doing that I'm gonna let
your Commission answer that okay perfect
I would say look and feel and density
and grid so if you're looking at the top
portion there's more of a grid effect
and more of a feeling of housing close
by I think the other thing we discussed
was what is the entry point to that Old
Town feel and as we were looking at the
northern portion of do we add that area
in there in order to kind of create this
you're now entering Old Town can we put
a sign you know all of that it was well
where would we put the sign on the south
end and does that make sense down or at
that kind of intersection there think of
the word Old Town and what it denotes in
your mind you think big open spaces with
big schools other kinds of facilities
like that or is it the main section with
the downtown and the small homes and
that and that's kind of what to me Old
Town means so if somebody said do you
live in Old Town and I live down at the
southern end I would not feel like I was
in Old Town but that's just me I don't
think it looks the same it doesn't feel
the same
doesn't give me the old town feel so if
that kind of helps a little bit know
that that's helpful so it sounds like it
was created from the perspective of a
planning perspective of how do we
arrange and organize the city in an
appropriate way and I'm hearing comments
around from you know our community and
neighbors saying well what you know I
haven't had a say or I want to say or so
I guess I'm also wondering was there any
involvement with the different sub area
residents and describing that it was
again the intention was more from a
planning perspective and how we organize
and do things as we manage growth and
develop standards across the city and
not so much creating unique sub
neighborhood community feels for our
city I'm just I'm trying to make that
distinction and understand if that was
meant to be part of this or not I pretty
sure that the city sent out letters and
got the information out to everybody but
just as
everybody else is busy they don't pay
attention till they get a final thing
that says we're going to do this even
though they've had the opportunity to
come in to talk to the city which is
always open to hear what they have to
say so you know how long do you wait to
make a decision and you take what you
have and then look at the reasonable
effect of the area I mean that's all you
can do and hope you made the right
decision and I will say you know I think
this process started in 2016
whereas the firt which was the first
open house and then we had one or two
more open houses after that and we've
had public hearings here and then it
went to City Council and there were
discussions there they remanded it back
to us and we have had more public
hearings here and back in the first
round there was a comment about changing
the boundaries or a couple of comments
that came up about changing the
boundaries but it didn't really catch
traction until the second time around
and that's when we sent out the letters
right and then also on the northern
portion one of our discussions was when
that came up as a potential boundary was
well wait we're not hearing from the
business owners up there please please
please get them involved and the city
staff did a great job there long email
chain lots of discussions happening and
so I felt like that portion of the
outreach really worked out and I must
say that the city is is open to doing
that same outreach to any main changes
and that's why we're here I mean that's
our function yeah and I think I might
have been misunderstood slightly I
didn't mean in this particular did have
we reached out to community I just meant
the origination of the sub areas was
there the thought you know there's other
large cities that think about their sub
areas as kind of niche little
communities within the city that's that
was my question of that just if that was
part of the thinking or not and I'm not
looking for it I'm just looking for
clarity if when you guys originally
because I wasn't here we're thinking
that way or again if it was just merely
from aggregating things so that you
could put things in place from it from
planning and design standard Trish was
saying that a lot of the sub areas came
about when there was annexations and
things like that so the the idea of
segmenting the city into sub areas has
been around for a long long long long
long time right right okay so this isn't
a new no idea yeah okay so Jennifer I
mean I'm looking at the map right now
every you know year that different sub
areas were put into place I'm purposely
making this distinction because I think
in the community there's some fear
around am I not part of the character of
Old Town anymore and so I'm backing into
the point of I don't think this exercise
is meant to do that but I could see in
the way that it might be perceived that
it might feel that way and then on top
of it while we're saying let's take this
out we're not really saying we're the
southern half in particular is gonna go
or the northern half so I'm just saying
if I were a resident receiving the
letter I might say okay you're taking
where am I going though what's happening
to me so I think there's just some
additional color that we might need to
provide and unfortunately some of that
can't be answered right right exactly
and that you know that's true and you
know you say well you said 150 letters I
just about 104 responses so you know we
to the to the to the point of
involvement yes I think the point is
made but I do think there's space for us
to make sure that we kind of educate
what's where do I go next what does this
mean and just by the comments you
brought up obviously people are
concerned about everything from can I
vote to business change the school
district and things like that okay
that's all people have to realize that
they are still part of the community of
Issaquah they're not being thrown away
and into a new city and any any new
changes it's just a matter of making
sure that the city has every type of
opportunity for people to come into and
enjoy and then have it all connected so
if we could take these I we're not gonna
vote on it but if we could take
get a bye the northern part and just
have a discussion on the northern part
are we comfortable in or out
this is Sammy do you have us taking that
the northern part and the discussions
that we've had with the business owners
at that in the city are you comfortable
with putting it into Old Town or not I
am not comfortable because per my
understanding of communication that was
sent after the last PPC meeting it
sounds like this is the zoning and the
things that we talked about are not in
play right now so I I'm having trouble
how can we make a decision on where it
goes when we're not really sure what
we're doing there either so I'm having a
really hard time understanding the order
of which we should make these decisions
I'm of the same opinion - seems like we
keep going to the route of make sure you
base your decision on what a future
design might look like a year from now
in my mind changing the batteries - has
no value right now
why don't we pair that decision with
when we have a design option to actually
look at right now no one's telling me
what the design proposal is for southern
or the northern I don't see any value in
removing them if we don't you know we're
making a decision off you know
incomplete facts in my mind I think to
speak to both Oh
it's fine I can go after his comments
okay so - both of your points Jamie and
we had made the decision to remove the
south because we felt we were under the
impression it was an intrinsic value so
the by changing the boundary there is
not going to be any detriment to the
to the design standards of that area but
learning tonight that there may be
future looking if we make designs
changes or design standard changes or
architectural changes to Oldtown it
would then apply to those properties in
the south when we made the decision we
weren't we didn't have that information
at the time so that's why we decided to
because it was only a intrinsic value
but there were no other reasons why we
decided to remove it other than the fact
that the school district takes up a
majority of that and it's already a
non-conforming standard in that area so
that's why we did so Joan do you want to
talk about north or south right now I
wanted to stay with north okay fantastic
go back to north my goal with the north
is to make sure that they are not
included in an area that is going to
inherently encourage redevelopment or
densification of those areas and that is
the reason that I would recommend
including the northern portion into
central Issaquah where I feel like
directionality wise we're going to get a
little bit more protections there which
I think are important and I think that
was our original idea of why that area
does not belong in central Issaquah so
that my general feeling is that it does
belong and I think there was some really
good conversations with the businesses
that got to their concerns that staff
then addressed which we then agreed with
and now it's coming up again and then we
agreed with so
well I just want to make it clear that
we are just an advisor or bothering body
to the council and they can change
whatever we we do so they did have some
questions at least the mayor did on our
in regard to the future and what we had
planned for that area I think talking to
the businesses we came up with a good
plan of where it should be today but
they were concerned that we didn't have
a picture in our mind of what that area
was going to look like when they first
started the essential working on the
central area plan that was part of it
and it was set up to be the 50s you know
bones and things that kind of like lemon
worth only a little different if that
makes sense but it didn't fit in central
area because of the zoning this in
central area so we either put it into
old town or we create a whole new
something whole new upset and I don't
know if it's wise to create such a small
area as a specific subset it just sort
of flows into the in - OH - old town to
me and I think that it's something that
I would like to see but into Old Town
it's just I know the way I feel I know
that we had some people come in that the
last open forum here that believed that
that area and the southern area should
be southern area out that area in so I'm
just going to go by what I feel I think
that it's a good fit and I hope that we
can
and if we don't put it in now I think we
should have a some other discussion on
what we believe the future should look
like and then go back to the agreements
that we made with the business owners
there and see if we can satisfy the
council and and make sure that the
business owners have the ability to grow
and provide a services so Joan I think
you get kind of at the point which is
what has changed since the last meeting
that PBC had and I know you and I have
both talked to mayor Poli yeah and
understand that concept but that hasn't
been presented qpp see it wasn't in any
of this meeting so and I know maybe that
wasn't supposed to come up at this point
but if we're talking about it again
without the new information you know are
we addressing the concerns that the
administration has presented are we
asking the right questions which is
PPC's role and it feels like we're not
okay keith is probably gonna get up here
in just a second but I think no matter
what the zoning is if its destination
retail or mixed juice or whatever it may
be it is still going to be more dense
than what Old Town is being proposed to
be so whatever that final decision on
the zoning is it's probably going to be
more than old town so we don't know
exactly what it is yet and that's going
to be decided later after this
discussion you know you all have talked
about it and you've said maybe we just
don't talk about it at all now we don't
change the suburbs and wait until we
know what the design standards are and
that's an option is to just you know
what let's just postpone let's just keep
the boundaries the way they are until we
know what's going to happen with the
zoning and the standards and everything
else I don't know that that answered
your question but I think I was a great
call
my opinion is what are we basing the
decision on tonight to even talk about
if we don't know what new proposed
standards are how did we make an
educated decision on whether it's in or
out well we know what the proposed
standards are we just don't know that we
like and the business community likes we
can either go with that or we can which
could be what the council finally
decides on as long as it can be
incorporated into a futuristic plan
which could be I mean if you read what
the the chamber said about essential to
guidelines essential to the development
economic development of the city
I mean that could fight fit into it so
we can either agree to put it in or we
can look at the rest of the issues that
we have to look at tonight and approve
them with the assumption that more
discussion needs to be done on that
particular facet I think we need to
approve something you get this started I
don't want to wait six seven eight more
months to start something to develop
this the Old Town sub area this is one
of my pet peeves I've been pushing this
for I don't know for as long as I've
been on the council to have something
done and when you look at downtown at
the old Old Town area it looks the same
as it did thirty years ago when I moved
in there's there's no changes and
sometimes we need to update and some of
the things that were proposed in the
plan are really good if they come to
fruition so I'd like to get on with at
least that part so if we can't agree on
in or out I mean I could take a straw
vote on whether you want it in or not or
if you have more questions we can do it
that way
or we can just table it so didn't we
have a straw vote at the last meeting or
like the the idea that we were moving
toward a direction of that being
included and then this came back to us
it I'm having a hard time with this
because I know that there are questions
that the administration would like us to
delve into and yet those are not being
discussed I don't think those are
questions to be delved into tonight
though okay I I don't think there's
anything I'm sitting here thinking of
right now that I wish they'd talk about
that I don't and the mayors kind of here
at face value it's okay then I would say
nothing has changed since the last time
we talked about this and have had that
decision point actually there was
something and that was the future
potential of putting design and
architectural standards to the south yes
and for the discussion of the north I
don't feel like that is as much of our
concern maybe maybe it is I'm not
getting that sense on the south I'll
agree with you and I think we have to
have that conversation also but for the
North portion if we if we decide to put
it into Old Town those standards have to
be redeveloped anyways because they are
not the same code they don't have the
same standards as Old Town well right
not necessarily it would have to be
created on its own so if we left it out
it still has to be created it may be
become its own sub area which may be
more appropriate but it sounds like all
the whole North section has still needs
to be baked and you guys need to come up
and tell us well you know we the
development standards the development
standards are being discussed that was
what happened on the 28th and that's
what is still continuing right now and
those are how the property develops what
it looks like is what the design
standards for Old Town are and
could be expanded to that area does that
make sense another conversation it is
it's a and that would be a conversation
if you all decided to pull old route 10
or if full mountain winds up in all town
and next year we start our design
standards conversation about what
standards need to be where what needs to
be regulated standards on what the
buildings will look like could move up
into the old route 10 area but as far as
what the development standards are and
impervious surface and stormwater and
Heights that's that's being determined
now it's a moving target but it's it's
being determined how so the reality is
the decision we should be making is if
we decide to leave the south in assuming
that's kind of all right I feel like
that's the South politer because I have
thoughts on the south okay so if we make
a decision today to move forward with
the original Old Town blueprint north
still has to be baked as far as what
it's going to look like yes there's
still going to be coming back to us for
discussion not necessarily I mean our
position is to advise the council of
what
after taking community input and
discussion what we feel and and look at
of what it should be they can always
change it I don't think we can look at
you know questions coming up in the
future I think we have to look at is it
reasonable to put it into Old Town does
it fit does it fit and I need a
consensus from you before we move to the
southern part as far as the northern
part are we talking about like the old
oil can Henry's we're talking about old
mill and okay so it does include oil can
Henry's
and xxx and the Grange and bombs and
then some office properties further to
the east a motorcycle place I 90 more
it's its northern say it's primarily
north and south of East Gilman of gilman
east of Front Street with a little bit
to the west so I feel like tell me if
I'm wrong I feel like we're all in
agreement on the dream 20 years out is
is that this bount is that Old Towne
includes the north I may I'm jumping
north and south of it but includes north
doesn't include the south
I mean I'm I get that the 20-year vision
and I think that's part of our purview
and what we're trying to your point Joan
you know you've been here for you know
decades and you feel like Old Town's is
right you feel like it's not changing it
on it so I totally get that and so this
is the vision of how do we coordinate
off in a way that we feel like is
representative of what Old Town is and I
think that's what we're trying to do
where I feel like the consternation is
and the confusion is coming is how do we
get from now to there and it sounds like
there's some real teeth that are getting
decided on now which is clearly why we
had business owners you know showing up
in our previous meetings and we have
residents showing up related to the
southern portion and if I were a
resident or a business owner in either
section I would I would have encouraged
more of my neighbors to come because I
would have some consternation on getting
voted in or out and not knowing what
comes with that and that's where I feel
like it seems very murky from my just
observation and so I think that's where
I think it's not clear on what are we
doing what are we supposed to be doing
what is the right order of things and so
if we put it in the development
standards will be the same but as
Kristen said the design standard which
will make it look and feel like Old Town
we'll be in there so the design Steve
meters maybe you have some decision on
self no I'm saying we can't say right
now that if we change the boundaries
that affects their their design because
we that conversation hasn't nothing yet
well as of right now if they unless I'm
wrong if they are in Old Town and the
design standards are applied to all of
Old Town then they fall under the same
guidelines unless some something happens
or some yeah but it was that if that I
was talking about right but you know we
could there could be a earthquake
tomorrow if it all go away I mean right
now as we're planning this I'm just
trying to come up to a decision with you
people
I think there's confusion design
standards and architectural standards so
we're looking at the north and we're
thinking that we want it to look like
part of the old town right it's not
that's not what we're talking about
tonight
we're talking about design standards
well no so so just not a word or two
conversations at our Paulo there's a
architectural standard that doesn't
exist yet and there's a design standard
the design standard standard so that
there's you're talking about kind of
three different things which Lindsey
just brought it but there's the
development standard height impervious
stormwater all that kind of stuff amount
of parking then there are the design
standards which are also architectural
standards because if you look at the old
town design standards it talks about
what the windows have to look like where
the doors have to be what the signs are
going to be where the materials are that
gets into what it's going to look like
somewhere the architectural standards
and that's what doesn't apply to old
route 10 so tonight the only thing that
matters is the development standards are
the only thing that certain is the
development standards
and then potentially in the future there
might be design standard changes that
could maybe apply to all of Oldtown may
be correct and if there are standards
forth Poletown don't you want them to
continue down to the rest of the area so
our input would be to continue the old
old town standards into this area so if
we move north into old town tonight
well they immediately adopt the new the
whole town development standards you
know no no okay
what's that process look like that would
take place in next year when we start
talking at we have existing design
standards and we need to a middle up
meant standards element standard develop
that facts impervious all that those are
very different between was consider like
gestation retailer we talked about the
class meeting and Old Town know the
development standards will apply whether
it is in or whether it is out and those
actually haven't been adopted yet those
would be those would be effective ones
council finally took action on that made
a decision okay so nothing changes night
of whether we add it or remove it
correct okay in June you mentioned one
second John you mentioned that we're
holding something up by not make a
decision on delay acceptance by the City
Council for that the Old Town sub area
vision that we're looking at okay and
that's all I would like to move it along
and instead of 2019 and 20 it could be
20 and 21 if we continue on do you if I
mean there's a couple things we have to
decide tonight so that's only one of
them we have another six or seven to
decide on so is it the consensus that we
put it into Old Town I'd like to hear
what they're talking about so we were
talking we were talking about say and
could be part of this conversation too
about and I wish I had the design
standards with me
Keith was being cautious of being
quite so absolute particularly about the
parking standards and as I recall the
parking standards there are parking
standards for CVD yeah and they aren't
parking standards for the multifamily on
East sunset way but there are not
parking standards for the rest of Old
Town well yeah there are buys so you
have your multifamily or CBD zone but
through but it my thought is they
wouldn't apply if they came in to Old
Town but I should say we should
double-check that right and let you know
if from my perspective I just like to
know what each zone section or section
of this COIs what does design and
development standards are that we want
to get past so we know how it affects
other areas like I don't have any of
that information to even say if it makes
sense to add in the row section we had
this whole conversation with the
business owners about what they liked
and didn't liked about destination
retail and what they would want in their
development standards and so that
conversation has been add and is
continuing but it sounds like the
intention is to have that conversation
influence whatever multifamily
designation is given to that area is
that correct I'm sorry did we just move
south don't you brought up no I think
you brought it multi-family no did oh
sorry
um mixed use then ok mixed use sorry you
threw me off there I know I know okay so
now you're gonna have to say it again
okay fantastic
so with the business owners there's been
this conversation about what they liked
about destination retail what they would
want in
mixed-use or whatever that new
designation was right I am assuming that
that conversation as it continues is
still going to affect whatever
development standards are assigned to
that area and that whether or not it's
in this old town sub area yes so I'll
share my understanding which may or may
not be consistent with what you guys
heard so part of I think the anxiety
about just moving destination retail out
of central Issaquah and retaining the
name destination retail is there's
nothing in the code that preserves those
uses as is as destination retail they
could all be redeveloped into apartment
buildings and so we could end up with an
area called destination retail that has
no destination retail so I think that
was the crux of the issue so it's a
title issue not a substance issue in my
mind because the standards what we
talked about in terms of building
heights and impervious and setbacks
those I believe are gonna move forward
to Council
now whether council adopts those or
dials them back that's a whole
conversation that none of us have had
and been privy to because we haven't
been there yet some of the conversation
about the building heights and the
impervious proposals that are for the
area that we might call mixed-use seem
out of scale with where we're going with
CBD which is the adjacent zone within
Old Town so that's I think the the issue
of why there's bends maybe less
confidence in the administration saying
we think this northern area should be
part of Old Town Sam Kyle's not here
he's in I think Alaska at the moment he
his preference is not to be part of Old
Town
I think he sees as the conversation we
had with the southern peace there is
this idea that old town has more
regulations than not in old town and so
I think from his perspective which he
would like less regulations he would
rather not be an Old Town I think we
heard from Tyson earlier you know they
want to get what they talked through
with us in terms of coming out of
central Issaquah I think because we
haven't decided to add additional design
regulations or architectural regulations
to this area if it was brought into Old
Town it's hard to know what the outcome
will be I think part of what you guys
need to I think think about is you could
do this in a number of ways we could
wait for the council to make a decision
on the area that used to be destination
retail that might be three or four
months which puts this into the icebox
again we could say you know what let's
leave the boundaries the way they are
but let's make a decision to revisit it
next year after some of these other
decisions are made and at that time you
could have another conversation about
moving the north end or the south end or
you can make the decision to take them
out now so that's what I can share I'm
not sure that added any clarity to any
of this but that's where I think we got
into some fuzziness on the north end the
south end is a different story I think
youth what happens when this plant
whenever it is approved what happens
when it's approved this does what that
what what if we don't improve it what
are we holding up if we approve it when
what then gets set in motion Joan you
know you're saying let's get going with
this let's approve it what what what do
we get to look forward to when it's
approved so all the action items at the
back those don't happen okay so you know
changing zones getting this transferred
development rights out of old town
right now it's shown as a receiving site
so if I was a property owner and I want
to take advantage of the transfer
development rights program I could do
that and add density so a lot of the
things that we've talked about for the
last two years
just stay on Holden and it's in to Jones
point the momentum and the inertia in
this neighborhood is fairly low we don't
see a lot of development activity all
the time otherwise I think there'd be a
higher level of sensitivity let's get
this done
but we need to get it done staff need to
move on to other things we can serve
that today right and just have it apply
to what is considered old town today
which is everything within the black yep
you could all this could be approved
tonight applying to what is currently
old town you could do that the question
is why do we have to make decision on
removing or adding sections to make what
is old because there's old time a day
before so so to rephrase your question
does a boundary change have to be part
of the update no you don't have to
change the boundaries as part of the
update you could say the existing old
town boundary is old town and we don't
want to change the boundary or you know
what there was enough ambiguity about
the boundary here's the five things we
want you as staff to do and then bring
it back to us for another conversation
maybe in 19 or 20 you know we don't have
to wait this was 96 like 20 years 1999
yeah like 20 years 20 years this was
like 20 years since it got updated last
what I was saying is you guys could
basically you could make a
recommendation leave the boundaries the
same but within the next two to three
years come back let's revisit the
boundaries after some of these other
pieces have have hit the ground and
maybe before we do that you know let's
go through a bigger community outreach
conversation about those boundary
changes or those potential boundary J's
problem with that yes is that business
owners that are in the northern section
are in limbo they they have sure
for the next three years which Sam Kyle
said you've changed the zoning on me six
times since I've owned this property and
he says I don't want it to happen any
more times so I I get that I get the
surety of making a decision and saying
we're done I was just offering choices I
don't mind waiting and I think probably
that's what I think most of these
commissioners want to do but I don't
want to say two or three years I want to
say one or two months two or whatever
however you can get how quickly the the
approval is done on the stuff that we
did the development standards if that's
what you need to know or what the future
is going to look like or if the
standards I mean you can make a decision
now can't you that at the standards that
are going to be creative for old town or
that have been created will apply to any
future development that is in unroot ten
I mean can you make those decisions so
that we can make a final decision
whether it's in or out within a
reasonable amount of time
so the answer about building heights and
setbacks and impervious for the old
route ten areas should be done by
October ish and they apply whether the
areas in or out right those would apply
whether it's in or out so there is okay
so so you've answered my question that
it doesn't have to be decided quickly
because they will have decide I know you
have your hand up but I pose the public
meeting so we'll see we'll see how this
works out and I've lost my friend of we
don't have to hurry to just make that
decision if the just the development
standards are decided because I think
the business is there have a right to
know and be consistent with the future
and what going to happen to them so you
know
that's that's a hard question to answer
what I would say is there would be a lot
of predictability for them as property
owners the city can always come back and
change parking requirements or tree
requirements or other things those
things happen all the time right we we
tinker with codes the thing that if if I
was one of those property owners what I
might be concerned about is you know
what we've done in the rest of Old Town
is we've adopted
you know architectural standards and
we're talking about expanding that
regulation to residential and so you
know okay maybe maybe at some point the
city's talking about if we've included
this area in Old Town maybe the city is
talking about adding that to the mix use
area okay well now that means that my
building you know my building and my
door need to be a certain color where
today I could choose whatever color I
want that's the difference is it's it's
more frosting still can have a door they
can still have a door it's more frosting
than it is bones not bones bones right a
question for you guys my thought process
was always we pulled the old route 10
area out of central squat because it
didn't belong there and we were gonna
have to decide at some point where it
goes what is the timeline for that is
there a deadline no though can just
float it can be its own sub area if it
needs to the old route to in sub area or
something I'm getting the sense that if
we we're not ready to make a decision on
the north because there's too much
ambiguity but we can make a decision on
the old town boundary south leave if we
left it as is and we don't have to do it
at a community outreach there's no harm
done
and whatever needs it gets done can get
done and moving forward and we can come
back and revisit North section and
decide if we want to put that in or not
say in any year from now and that gives
you time and we can still move forward
otherwise we're going to keep holding
this thing up until we finally have a
fully baked cake and we don't need to do
that we can actually maybe move forward
make progress incrementally right okay
so the decision basically is to leave it
out for at the present moment okay if
that decision is to leave the boundary
as is both on the north and the south
right we're talking about the north I
just want I want and that could be a
three second conversation but I just
want to know the on the north on the
north so it's - at this present time to
leave it out of out of old town is that
the consensus that I'm getting I dislike
the idea but I agree with the thought
process so okay so now if I look at the
same thought process for the South it's
a completely different area completely
different concept different layout of
the land completely different and as you
go down the street you go down quite a
ways to get to the school and and those
that area are you comfortable with
leaving it in and and and considering it
part of Old Town is that a good concept
you want to leave it in I am because I'm
thinking forward who's to say if we
adopt these new design standards at the
South section of which I would agree
looks a little bit different obviously
then when you drive it down consider
downtown like you know Jack's are on
that area what is still an option a well
that southern part start to look more
like what we consider option C if we if
we adopt new stringent designs
so looking forward are we interested as
a community in making what we consider
old town larger look and feel wise where
we making baked to the decision off what
it looks like today are we comfortable
with with limiting to two or three
storey buildings or is that the area
that gives you the opportunity to build
density in that particular area and once
you start building density you're out of
old town oh do you want to restrict it
to small growth basically or do you want
to use that Internet yes I want to
restrict it because of traffic Sam here
I agree I live down there so okay so I'm
sensing that you all want to leave it
into Old Town okay now what else do we
have to decide tonight that that you
guys you read the plan I think we should
have a recommendation timeline for the
North section to be decided not leave it
hanging make the decision tonight to go
with one of the plan what are the
options and if that northern section
isn't in that option we put a
recommendation that it needs to get
addressed more quickly than later you
can put that in as a in your motion to
either accept or reject whatever we're
looking at right now so you can add that
to the the motion to but let's go back
right now to the rest of the plan where
is it anything in the sub area Old Town
plan that you found problematic that you
wanted to change to increase was the
plan my only thing is I want it done now
and a lot of it is
visionary and so I'm hoping that one
staff has lots of time to put in all the
codes and restrictions that they do a
good job and all those things are
accomplished I don't find anything in
there
offensive or you know I don't didn't
find anything that I wanted to add do
the plan feel second I have a question
for T okay
no go okay this is aspirational if I
wanted to be disruptive to the whole
organization and you do that very well
okay so aspirationally I just got this
great idea and I want to share it with
the people here kind of get an idea what
they think if we eliminated parking on
Front Street move the sidewalks the
street and open up all that space your
shop owners to use for outdoor cafes we
move the parking towards the back of the
buildings and the city acquires maybe
some of that property we put it in
parking structure in terms of vitality I
think that would be a huge boon or on
the Front Street business owners because
you would create almost a mall strip and
it would be I think very welcoming so
while we're on the topic of the old helm
plan I thought that would be a great
aspiration to error and your feedback
while she's scratching her head going I
cannot believe you I love the idea I
don't think it's all feasible because of
all of those requirements that you put
in there of buying property and then
shifting the park it behind when parking
is already limited and rapid with
traffic gonna go there always has to be
something that 15 yeah I did the idea
and this plan is to have it walkable are
you going to walk between the the
benches and the chairs and the
restaurants and and
yes because that's already provided for
in the idea of creating those little
outdoor seating areas yeah but if you
take the sidewalk away
I'm not saying take the sidewalks out
what I'm saying is open uses parking
that's on Front Street and turn that
into part of the mall strip for
pedestrian and fur so the city just
executed a contract with Ferran piers to
do a downtown parking study and part of
it was in response to the old town task
force recommendation to look to improve
the capacity of the existing parking and
opportunities so that so that could be a
lot of different things and we'll just
talk about that for a second so so
you've got a certain number of parking
stalls in Old Town now right and some of
them are as Kristen mentioned earlier
may be being used all day by transit
users which which basically takes two
uses a day away so someone who parked
somewhere for nine hours a day that
space would have normally been turned
over at least three times in a normal
parking situation so so part of what
we're trying to do is say how much
capacity are we losing now and if you
did some different things like time
limit parking could you potentially add
parking without adding parking you know
what I mean by just making it more
efficient part of this is also going to
be looking at a garage because one of
our council members who happens to be
council president right now has said
more than once he thinks a garage
downtown makes sense for him so the
parking study that's going now till
that's gonna say October is looking at
that and willing its full it fully you
know broad scoped and there will be a
community outreach piece so there will
be an opportunity to float that idea to
them to take a look at and consider as
they look at the options
I like the idea so so so if so from a
business standpoint or businesses would
hate losing the parking out in front
I'll just say that now from a
streetscape standpoint being able to
widen the sidewalks provide more
opportunities for sidewalk use that's
super great in terms of enlivening the
front street environment but to
Lindsay's point it's a big lift to get
there so so parking study I think is the
opportunity to have that conversation
and and look at the results so they're
they'll actually do license plate
studies to find out where the people
live that are actually parking here to
see if they live locally or if they're
commuting from other places so there's a
lot of data that comes out of they
actually have an app that they just run
behind and app your license plates of
all the people parking in the parking
and that's probably saying too much on
TV so so there's so we're gonna get a
lot of information I think once we get
that information there'll be a better
opportunity to talk about what choices
are here for us to improve parking which
may or may not include removing some
maybe not all but maybe some of the
parking on Front Street to create some
of those nodes that were part of the
streetscape plan that already got
presented to Council so if you read the
the plan here that can be addressed
actually it is addressed because it says
to cut down parking to add more people
opportunities to walk in the
neighborhood all of those things are in
here it's you're going to have to be
very creative on how you get there and
and that's kind of the problem they're
very up here higher level we will do
this and we will create fix up the
traffic on Front Street well how do you
do that so you're going to have a lot of
and discussion on you know maybe a
bridge over top of the city who knows
you know what you're going to come up
with so that you know that comes into it
you know that can be creative that's
thinking out of the box and I think the
city has to do that now to get some of
this done and you talked about you
didn't want traffic more people on the
track you're putting 7500 homes already
into the central area traffic is going
to be Mendes you know right now so a lot
of thinking out of the box has to come
apart come come to fruition so again is
there anything else in the plan that you
would add subtract Ange amy has her I do
it I have to just two things I love the
plan I love the vision of where it's
going there's just two contradictions
that really jump out at me and I've read
this plan several times over the last
month and one is it's all around you
know walkability bikeability pedestrian
friendly and and we're all touching on
it and yet we have the equivalent of a
highway going through this district and
so it's really hard you know to look at
all these nice elements of it and then
when that piece is vague you know and I
know it's a big thing that we need to
tackle but it's that just really stands
out to me is if that doesn't get
addressed a lot of these things become
irrelevant and then the second
contradiction piece that I just am
concerned about is around housing
affordability so we've pointed out in
the plan that we want to keep the
current housing stock in this area and
in fact the latest revision have us
removing higher density homes like
cottage houses and micro apartment units
which is fine I just think we need to
realize that we might inadvertently
actually be making this place very
expensive to live in so Old Town
could potentially become the most
expensive sub area in the city of
Issaquah if we restrict the amount of
housing units there so those are just
the two the two big things that jump out
at me with my hat on kind of just
thinking longer-term of you know this
vision and and what it could potentially
create so that's those that's it you
know I think part of your your concerns
are related to I think one of the
reasons that we don't want to add a lot
of housing is because it affects the
traffic in old town and people have said
they don't want more traffic in old town
so therefore don't allow too much
housing so the two are kind of related I
get completely and fair enough but again
it'll be interesting once we actually
start doing some of these transportation
studies where the majority of that
traffic is originating right and coming
from and I'd be surprised if the
majority of it was intrical traffic but
if I were living down there I'd very
much say oh please don't put another you
know thousand resident unit here that's
just gonna add to it but I would argue
in the details if we could address
longer term the bigger issue of our pass
through traffic
you actually could have a very vibrant
pedestrian friendly front street with
high-density living on it with the
appropriate public transport walkability
you know right pedestrian cyclist is to
your point I completely understand where
people are feeling it is a that is and
it is being addressed it's being just
addressed regionally there's a group
that talking about it and they on it but
that's a 15 you know it's a long time
away and a lot of money away so in the
meantime here we can hopefully address
some smaller fixes that at least help
the pedestrians to get around a little
easier yeah and safer yeah no 100 and I
I biked down from the Highlands and go
through Front Street quite a bit and
thank goodness for that one blinking
crosswalk across you know French Street
there that's the only way I can kind of
safely cross on my bike but to your
point yeah I think there's things we can
do in the near term I just wanted to
point out that I think and the traffic
piece is the bigger thing that we need
to address to really knock this out of
the park and then I do think we need to
just be worried of our decisions and
what that means to affordable house
and what this neighborhood will
eventually start looking like then 10 15
years from now so on the affordable
housing piece I think the plan actually
does a good job of addressing the idea
of we want to decrease tear downs that
would cause yes additional housing but
what we've seen with the additional
housing units that have gone in that
have been multiple stories tall is
they're not affordable right they're not
more affordable than what was torn down
and so the goal of increasing or
maintaining some level of affordability
there is more about keeping the existing
housing stock and letting Central ask
well maybe add the small units and dense
housing that will add the numbers in
that area that's that's my impression of
how the plan addresses those things then
that makes sense I just from a reality
standpoint it's really you know it's
hard to put the teeth that says to a
property owner don't tear this don't
tear this down and rebuild something
that's gonna net you a greater profit so
that's just where I would then go to
what what are our teeth that prevent
that from happening we do have the
housing strategy in place which
addresses two of those things and one is
there's going to be an inventory of
market rate housing correct me if I'm
wrong that is actually affordable that
we would like to try and find a way to
maintain that housing and another one
talks about limiting the number of tear
downs to replace the bigger housing and
so those are both things that are kind
of in play I think they start next year
but they are part of the housing
strategy that was adopted by council
late in 2017 it's going to be really
hard to oversee limiting the tear downs
you know I'm somebody who wants to make
sure that the person who was invested in
that property or in that big
business with the assumption of this is
my retirement that all of a sudden the
city takes it away and changes it and
affordable or not I think that we have
to be reasonable in we can't just say
we're not going to do that because those
people have waited 20 30 years now
they're ready to retire and this is
their retirement so and assuming that
those are code amendments those come
through you all as well so you get a
chance to discuss it then too the only
the only comment I have on it besides
the fact that I want it done tomorrow
there are I understand that a lot of
this takes time and money but there are
a couple things in there that you know
maybe the Arts Commission could be
working on wayfinding and things that
really update the community or working
with the business owners to put the
umbrellas but the over hangings on there
and cleaning up I know that I've walked
down frustrated a lot and there are a
couple buildings that need some basic up
keeping and I think that would change
the whole makeup of Issaquah if just
those things were done besides that
let's fix traffic and let's do this I
think you have to start small and work
on it so call the Arts Commission tell
them to start working on it and then
it's in there but okay and actually to
her point I have brought this down
earlier and I just forgot to mention it
utility some of the utilities for
instance like signals and crosswalk
intersections and so on I think this
goes under falls under traffic but the
village style traffic signals in Old
Town right so if we want to say that we
want to limit all those types of utility
functions to be village style the new
crosswalks are coming in our galvanize
and they look like they belong
in an industrial section of town okay so
shouldn't those also be applicable to
the village style well that can be
addressed that can actually be done
through the design standards we would
have to work we'd work with pwe and with
engineering of his operations to make
sure that it works but that would be
something that we could address during
the design standards when we have that
discussion next year we wouldn't have
that language into this document pardon
me would we would it be and would it be
best to add that language into this
document or no you can certainly add it
I mean under the action steps for an
entity yeah into the action items I mean
it already says that we want to keep the
scaling character so that would fall
into the character in my opinion but
it's it's as a policy and it's not
necessarily as well I guess we're how
would we address that it seems since
it'd be a capital project that the city
would do that it would be best in the
action other items
but not
what we can Keith's suggestion is we
could amend the streetscape plan okay as
well and would that go in the action
items or action yes whatever it would be
a minute I'm in the streetscape plan
with that I'm gonna ask someone to give
me a motion to address what we've
discussed tonight somebody like to make
that motion so I will make a motion that
we adopt option a as is so we leave the
property boundaries as they are and we
ask that the city come back within 18
months 12 months 18 months with a
proposal on what to do with a northern
section you clarify between 12 months
and 18 months
all right so we'll make it 12 we'll make
it 12 months okay
so we'll make it so we say and I and I
would clarify too and say within 12
months of adoption of you know
development standards for that area
because if this can if that conversation
happens to contain it well but if that
conversation for any reason continues
into March of next year and doesn't
happen this year okay so I will make an
amendment then the it would be we asked
that the city reevaluate the northern
section of our discussion to be
discussed again to the PPC within 12
months of the Peru
Old Town sub area plan of the
development standards for old route 10
correct
do we not what about the south including
the South yeah but we do not want to
revisit that in 12 months
are we just assuming South is forever in
we're assuming the South is for everyone
if you want I can I mean you can think
that will probably come up when the
design standards conversation happens
other people went in around naturally
yeah okay well I mean you can always
suggest or include that if you want to
seem like big different but what good
would go together cuz we really were
waiting for the standards right that's
so that's so I'm just suggesting why not
that's not them there Ken oh the North
hinges on the development standards for
old route 10 which are currently up in
the running whereas the South is more
about the design standards which is a
conversation that's inevitably going
going to happen okay you're saying it'll
happen regardless yeah okay a suggestion
might be right now in your action items
for 2019 and 2017 is adjust old town
boundaries comma as adopted you may say
something like relook at old town
boundaries within 12 months of adoption
so it's actually in the plan and not
just in the motion cuz then maybe we
wouldn't forget whatever to include
that's so streamlined it's like it was
meant yeah basically saying so on the
2019 to 2020 number 17 mmm-hmm just old
town boundaries and review whatever
we're gonna call the old route 10 areas
Michell inclusion what he's just leaving
it open cuz who knows in 12 months what
you're gonna want to relook at him you
might want to look at the east so the
problem with not mentioning that is if
it's not adopted as part of Old Town
want to make sure it's already part of
somewhere no but it wouldn't be no it
there's right now it's a part of Old
Town know the northern part is not so I
put the other map up there the ideas
right now we don't change the project we
don't change the boundaries at all agree
because if the action says to relook at
the boundaries you could go in or out
with anything in the boundary is why I
was leaving at gem yeah so I would
suggest although I can't instead of
having the city make a recommendation
because they're asking us to do it in
your motion you say the city I think we
should just add you know we no decision
until the development standards are
settled and then come back to the
planning policy this is our
recommendation no decision you mean we
leave it as is that's your ear motion no
I mean clarify what your what you're
saying is that you if you were to make a
motion because you can't make a motion
but if you were to make a motion your
motion would be to have option a we
would be leaving the property will be
leaving the boundaries as they are I'm
not saying that at all that's your
motion I in your motion you said you
were waiting for that you were asking
the council to make a decision before it
came back the way I read understood your
motion and I don't think we should make
a motion to wait for the council to make
a decision because they're looking to us
to give them input it's all I'm saying
you can make the motion any way you want
but that's just a suggestion that I
think it would be easier to approve the
plan as is keeping the the dirt the
outline exactly the way it is with the
whatever you want to put on it
one of withdraw your yeah yeah I just
moving on let's make a motion to use the
boundary a option our boundary option a
so we're leaving the boundaries as they
are and within 12 months of adoption we
come back and look at the old route 10
as part of being in what boundary we
want to put that area into and I restate
that for you yes okay number we're just
changing the line of number 17 on that
page to say PPC to review the old town
boundaries within 12 months of
development standard adoption acceptance
for old route 10 area whatever you're
gonna call it I don't know if there's a
name since it's not in an old town or
it's not in a sub area I know I'm still
calling it old route 10 DBV
yep so very invisible make sense for
right and I would just make a friendly
comment that it wouldn't just say PPC
would review it would be review because
it would be a process that definitely
you would be part of the process but it
would be a community you know it would
be more than just PPC reviewing then we
constrain you'd be seeing it with Rizzo
yep
that would be my suggestion a second
second I was restating his life
in fact history yeah that's what I was
gonna say we have a second second you
know for the discussion all those in
favor say aye aye opposed motion carries
and just to clarify you're only revising
or you're only reviewing the northern
part your net you're being silent on the
southern part correct and that motion
that was it to clarify because we've had
some questions what we just voted for
and don't assume we have clarity since
everyone just voted I'm just gonna state
it anyway just for the record we're
keeping the boundaries as originally
recommended with no changes and we are
adopting all of the old town sub area
plan with that one change not
recommended but as they are today
correct no change to boundary we did we
want to put any timeframe on revisiting
the plan itself overall plan as opposed
to 20 years from now where is that being
too ambitious would you guys like me to
or doing
are we not too concerned about that if
you make the motion you'll find out okay
well I'll give it a shot I might suggest
adding it to the longer term actions
brilliant one to twenty three to twenty
thirty you stay here visit the plan
mm-hmm okay so I'd like to make a motion
that the PPC that we add to the longer
term actions that the PPC review and
revise the plan as necessary and like
Trish's comment before I would remove
PPC oh and just say review because it's
a community participation got it and the
time frame is well if we're just adding
it to longer-term actions its 2023 to
thirty why are we waiting so long well
it's only eleven years it was nineteen
since the last one but that would be up
in 2012 yeah what no twenty Twenty
twenty one let's I thought we decided
that we wanted to have the community and
pp and PPC review it twelve months after
the approval of the design stand so is
already in no it wasn't part of the
motion so if you wanted to make a motion
for what we decided I would love to have
you make a motion okay I'm gonna go for
shorter this time I am making a motion
to add to the short term actions at leat
plan B reviewed and revised as necessary
by after wouldn't after standards after
the design standards have been adopted
twelve months after that yeah mm-hm okay
that motion any discussion all those in
favor say aye
no with that hopefully wordsmith that
appropriately thank you this is what I
got okay let me know if I got it review
and update the old town plan within 12
months after design standards have been
adopted so so that's like two years from
now and that gives the design standards
about one year to see if they work does
that work well it's in the short-term
options yeah I know
look at it okay and see and give you
input see what changes were made its
it's been moved and seconded and 2022
done so 2020
it is but it's in the short-term it's
after the design standards have been
adopted though so if they're not adopted
till 20 so 22 then we would have a year
to do that that's what I thought I heard
you say that's it
job security don't worry about I think
the goal was just to maybe look at them
like three to four years from now not
ten there we getting to that that was
the goal okay all right look on your
face I'm just gonna let it go but I do i
okay so I'm not gonna let it go no it's
just the old town old town plant sets
the vision and the assumption is that
right now you want this is what you want
the vision to be and you want to give
the design standards once you readjust
once you adjust those in about a year
make sure that those are achieving the
vision they need a little time just do
you need a little time to figure out if
those standards are achieving that
vision that you want before you go
changing the vision again so I I'm not
sure that it's the plan you want to
check in two years or as the design
standards two years after that and give
the vision you know five years the
policies five years before you go
changing the vision again because you
change the vision you're probably gonna
have to change the standards again so
just like the T IP and the IP of a list
of what you want to do yeah and every
year they're changed so if there are
policies of them mm-hmm you put it down
on the list or you change it I mean
cities have the you of the ability to do
that right but for right now it seems
like a reasonable assumption to come
back and discuss it even if it if it
hasn't been had a year to go through the
process I mean there's still the
you know you still can discuss it and
say yeah we think it's going to work no
that's doesn't seem reasonable you can
still have opinions on it so absolutely
so I think that's all we're getting at I
mean we have to close out this and move
on and I think that's a reasonable way
of doing this okay but your concerns are
hurt okay can't keep changing okay I
understand that there's only so much
time in the day and then the week of
being able to process all of this stuff
I understand all that well but I think
the point is also you're saying whatever
metrics are measuring this by will not
have necessarily come to fruition exact
that time frame exact totally I just
need yeah my point was it's time to
settle to see if what your vision is and
what you're doing to get there really
works so if we're not saying what we
think we want to see when we talk about
it again in three years it doesn't mean
we should necessarily deviate right it's
just we haven't we might not have given
it enough time to play out correct that
and that's correct
we're on staff time it's just about
letting see you coming back and oh it
was on the agenda for January 2080
and but we're going to move it because
of this this and this to 2019 kind of
yeah I understand that
so let's yeah you're giving us a lot of
credit okay okay so is there anything
else besides this plan to us usually
have an update of what's gonna happen
there's a new public here so you guys
are all done with this all done on
August 9 is that right
August 9 August 9th there's a new public
hearing and I'm letting you know now to
make sure that we have a quorum I won't
here so no Joan okay I will okay
so Ron is a yes Joan is a no yes no
Lindsey's a yes I hear a whisper okay
yes yes excellent bill Amy yes Jamie
excellent Jason do you think yes
excellent it will be an exciting one but
I just it's a change it's just one
that's just coming down in the path so I
wanted to get it on here cuz it's not
even on your schedule the end up in your
packet this week so that's how new it is
so I just get it on your radar you want
to find out if we're coming before you
tell us what I know I just want to be
sure before we send out my guard this
Ron no because we send out a million
letters to property owners I want to be
sure that there's that the seats are
full of million people yeah
yes we're gonna open up the doors don't
be so many people here sounds like a
serial or any letters one is a
transportation element no that's getting
bumped the comp plan and continues to be
bumped okay at all this other exciting
projects that we're doing now this would
be the permitted land use table of the
central standards the storage units and
hotel discussion how I got more excited
yes a watch fantastic I know I wouldn't
miss it
yeah and you better not I better know
yes yes indeed but that's all I have
okay anything else so with that I'll
close the meeting at 8:45 well done and
thank you for your first meeting well
done thank you
you