good evening hello and welcome to the
March 22nd meeting of the Planning
Policy Commission tonight we're going to
have a short discussion on the vision
that we created and then we're going to
have two public hearings one on the
development and design standards and the
Issaquah municipal code regarding
excessive re ad use but before we do
that we have a guest in our midst
tonight a very important guest who has
added no it's not who has asked you make
a few statements in front of us today
and I really think it's kind of I don't
want to use the word strange but I will
this madam mayor is welcome at any time
we're excited and honored to have you
here tonight and we look forward to
anything any directions that you may
give us to help us on our journey to
make the city better
so madam mayor thank you madam chair
that was very nice and thank you for
letting me sit in your chair anytime
it's a little unconventional
I agree but 2017 and beginning a 2018
are a little unconventional to my main
purpose for coming tonight was to
recognize the fact that the work of this
commission last year was very different
for many years since I have lived in the
city you had an enormous number of
meetings you had you tried to challenge
council to have the longest meetings you
had meetings that felt like you were
doing your normal work of making
recommendation and others where you had
Joint Commission meetings which I
thought were fabulous when I watched
them I thought the conversations that
you had as you crossed over from one
community to another was great we have
different expertise on all different
commissions you also had what I would
call work session style meetings where
you had the public at the table with you
where you had member
from former tasks forces with you kind
of taking a look back at why we set
something up the way we did years ago
and is it still relevant now and so it
was just an amazing amount of work and
an amazing amount of quality work to
watch I wanted to let you know as mayor
I'm really excited about the product
that you guys have been sending out from
this commission and sending on to the
council committee for a review so I
thought I would come and share it with
you but it wasn't really it was really a
strange year last year so thank you all
and for those that aren't here tonight
thank you very much for your work I also
wanted to let you know that in watching
all those meetings something popped in
my mind that you had different kinds of
meetings had different feelings in terms
of engagement and involvement and that
there is nothing hard and fast that you
must sit at the Dyess to have your
meetings if you prefer to do it
committee style like council committee
does you can if you prefer to do it work
session style it would be great for you
to decide as a group what you feel is
the best set up for your meetings so
we've all we sat at the Dyess Jones
since I can remember you know years and
decades and decades long but I really
felt like you got to a really
interesting level of engagement when you
were sitting in a different format and
that's not for me to dictate I just want
to let you know that you have options to
do that how you set up the room I also
wanted to thank you for your thoughtful
deliberations there were many different
opinions we're not looking for consensus
from our Commission's we're looking for
thoughtful deliberations so that
everybody is getting all of their
questions answered before you go into a
discussion and we don't expect you to
vote unanimously on issues we appreciate
the fact that you come into this with
different skill sets different expertise
different job experiences and that
you're having these productive
conversations want to make sure that
even when we're bringing you something
complicated you are comfortable to keep
asking questions until you have the
answers you need to make a decision
we're sort of the translators the staff
council and anybody else you work at the
translators between what is in code
which is not part of what you normally
do for your work and the policy question
we're asking you to answer or help us on
and so if we're not giving you the
proper translation if it's still
confusing please keep asking your
questions it's how it's when you guys
have your best deliberations is when
you've gotten all of your questions
answered so please push on us
the reason it's so important to me as a
mayor is that the work you do here is
just not in isolation it doesn't end
here you recommend to council into
council committees how we should move on
policy you directly inform the decisions
that we're about to make and you are the
ones that hold the public hearing we
don't necessarily hold a public hearing
for many of the things that you send our
way this is the place where the public
has the best opportunity to help you
consider and shape the policy that's
being recommended to councils so your
work is hugely important and if I will
take a step back and say something we
haven't always done well that I hope to
do better is we haven't closed the loop
with you when your work moves on to
committee and council we don't always
take everything that's recommended in
this committee and adopt it sometimes
for different reasons or because we've
asked for more information we either
change what you say we reject it and
send it back or we accept it
councilmember batise sorry about that
so I want you to know that one of the
things I want to work on this year with
all of our committees and commissions is
that when we take your body of
thoughtful work and your recommendations
back to committee and back to Council
and we change your go in a different
direction we owe you that explanation
back at your committee meetings here are
Commission meetings here you should be
hearing hey they didn't adopt zoning for
light rail throughout the town I mean I
heard that on camera and I'm like oh man
our bad sorry so when your stuff comes
up and you spent all this time thinking
about it we owe you a close the loop
explanation
hey the council chose to take this path
and for these reasons it will help you
do your work better as these things come
through and so that's something that
we're trying to change and that's my big
reason for coming tonight - thank you
for the amazing body of work you did
last year for the I was gonna say
quadruple time but it's probably more
than quadruple time if we add all the
hours I don't think the public realizes
that you aren't paid and that you are
all here because you're interested
citizens and I'm positive they have no
idea how many hours you put in last year
so on behalf of the council and the
administration I just want to say thank
you very much we're very proud of the
work you do and we're looking forward to
getting through this last heard last big
heap of moratorium items and others and
have a great year thanks for letting me
come no I must go on and say thank you
thank you madam there or I've been on
this on this committee for a long time
and this is the first time that a mayor
or even a city council person I think
has come to a Stacey King and I think
we're all honored and we've all enjoyed
the experience that we the city actually
has given us to be part of this
commission so thank you again and please
do come back any time that you feel that
we need support or guidance or just to
say hello so thank you very much
does that not make you feel good I also
would like to thank all of the members
of the community and the task force that
put so much time and effort into it so
all of you deserve the same recognition
thank you I know that a couple of you
are here tonight thank you again for
your support and your input and I think
we created a really good vision and I
hope that the council if not accepting
it to even improve it make it better so
with that we're gonna get back to our
normal process and so we have three
things that we have to approve so I need
a motion to approve the minutes of the
February 22nd meeting of the Commission
I'd like to make a motion to approve the
minutes of the February 22nd to 2018
meeting second all those in favor say
aye aye opposed I need a motion to
accept the minutes of the February 28th
meeting so moved
what second okay all those in favor say
aye aye and the last one for March the
8th I moved to approve minutes from
March 8 2018 second all those in favor
say aye thank you now we're going to ask
Keith our illustrious leader to lead us
in a short discussion just to verify the
changes that we've made to the vision I
assume that all of you have read it and
are comfortable with what we've created
so Keith you're on thank you madam chair
so what would PPC be without discussing
centralization sorry all right so this
evening
you guys have received
what I heard in terms of final edits
kind of we went through this we talked
about some changes we talked about the
introduction to each neighborhood and
having kind of a some more narrative
before we get into the list received a
late but timely suggested edit from Ron
on in terms of the main vision statement
to make it actually read like English
instead of whatever it was had a couple
extra words in it so all of that is here
and so I don't necessarily want to go
through this unless you guys notice
something that you would expected to be
in so the other thing that was kind of a
missing gap was the green necklace so
this language over here you're seeing
for the few soft for the first time this
is the document Trish and I talked about
maybe the one thing that might make
sense
under this figure because this figures
got numbers in it and there's no legend
to maybe put a note underneath it that
says you know for details see the parks
strategic plan so that at least would
send you to a place that would then
unpack this document which is hopefully
at some point going to be adopted like
this and ultimately if it doesn't get
adopted like this then we'd have to come
back in and change this figure out for
whatever the council adopts at the end
of the day so so we're not gonna have
the number one means this number two
means that in the plan so the problem is
when you duplicate stuff like that then
if you change it then you go change it
in two places
so my preference is not to do something
like that but to say you know if you
want details go here because then as the
park plan becomes a more fluid document
if it is and I don't know you just
change things there you don't have to go
back in and change the CIP plan document
I recommend you at least in
the legend I don't know if there's
enough white space there it turns out
with like the lines and whatnot mean I
can get away not wanting the number okay
because that's the numbers those little
circles that's yep six pages of snow on
those might change the probably the
magenta arrow will not change I mean
it'll still be the location might change
but the magenta arrow will be the
magenta arrow just amounts to sound
trail so I can do that I think that's a
good suggestion I would I would agree
with that as well and I had made a
suggestion for parks last week that I
see didn't get it adopted sold bring it
up again which is that 1a and 1b I think
when they're small in that format it
looks confusing when they're a lowercase
and just upper casing the a and B I
think makes it a little easier for
people to read and did you give that he
wasn't adopted so just bring I just
mention it again I think it's just a
easier thing for people to see okay I'll
look to Trish to maybe remind Jennifer
Fink that that was a suggestion to maybe
help legibility Trish is ignoring me
[Laughter]
any other comments questions thoughts
you can see the maps got changed so for
example now the two Gilman tale is there
hopefully it gets a different name over
time I would suggest on that page
changing the colors because it it I
because the purple goes through I can't
quite tell that the stuff to the right
is in the Gilman neighborhood so I would
expect to see different colored so you
want the rgc to be different each of the
neighborhood's to be in shading or okay
so that so that like the Gilman outline
could be a different color than the
Pickering outline or shading on it
either way okay Anna did you did you
hear that Kristin I did awesome
and the the area underneath East Lake in
yeah this the Gilman tale yeah so we
probably really want to put some sort of
identifier to show where that is
actually a group that's part what do you
want to just repeat Gilman I mean you've
got Gilman as a label you can Weiss but
Lindsay's comments so for example if
Gilman now is a green outline you know
and then Pickering is an orange outline
what you have then here is you'll have
two lines but it'll be clear that this
down here is green which becomes Gilman
if that's what color Gilman is yeah so I
think I think it's gonna I think it's
gonna thick work itself out yeah because
I agree I mean for me the reason why the
tail looks severed is because actually
of the rgc line that's the point there's
so much there's so much material to work
with here sorry we've had a long day
so and then you know as you can see once
we get down to the neighborhoods you
know each of the neighborhoods then got
kind of a quite a bit of new language in
before we then went to the the lists so
it's a little bit of both thank you yes
you're welcome
so on the neighborhood's I have three
comments okay come one I would move the
map up to the beginning of it some
portion maybe between today in the
future or something I think it's hard to
read it without seeing the map mm-hmm
secondarily if you're going to color the
original map I would continue those
colors into the map that you're showing
for each neighborhood and third the
original version of this had images that
were like example images the original
CIP yes that had images for each of the
neighborhoods and I understand that
you've got images up in the plan
objectives yes
when you say images do you mean photos
or do you mean
so knows that are examples of what this
area is going to feel you would like
some photos in each neighborhood just to
provide some visual description and some
interest yes and I believe I've
mentioned that multiple times and I'm
sure we've ignored it multiple times
absolutely coming later and now that
we're at vinyl I'm like is this later
these are not the photos you want no no
it would be more like so like yeah no I
really want something because the goal
of these having neighborhoods is to
distinguish each of them and to be able
to show okay West Newport has a
different feel they on the other areas
and so I agree with that I think it'll
help it read as like you open to that
neighborhood page and you kind of feel
it for people that are visual thinkers
you'll get that feeling of what that
neighborhood is like rather than just
the words on the page personally I would
put the today section the map and then a
horizontal set of images right before
the future because that delineates hey
this is what the future looks like and
the description okay yeah okay got it
okay any any other things AJ and I can I
wordsmith one line on the green necklace
if you need to so on the the part where
we run with the jewels and strands
metaphor which I was really keen on it's
better than running with scissors it's
true so the last thing is the first
paragraph yes the way I thought of it
just cuz I think this is such a good
metaphor I wanted to be clear
instead of saying space get green spaces
gathering spaces and trails or the
jewels and strands to rearrange it to
make clear what our jewels and what our
strands okay so I think it would be
inviting green spaces and urban social
gathering spaces are the jewels on the
necklace come
network of connected trails are the
strands of the necklace just kind of
rearranging it so yep
fantastic agreed
and then I'll just comment I I missed
this meeting and that this looks really
good yeah it's awesome
yeah Ron put me down but I'm okay with
that it was it's fine to say this is
good what's like it's way better than
that other map we had no I know I'm just
I'm kidding all right any other comments
or are we good because you guys have
already pretty much said yes send this
forward they will update this and we
will attach it to the agenda bill which
because even though Landon Shores
already had a conversation they have not
had an agenda bill so we'll make these
edits we'll attach this version to the
agenda bill that goes to Landon Shore so
it's yeah it's gonna be the 19th of
April you are all welcome to attend that
meeting if you would like so once you
get the pictures changed in the few
little edits could you send out that
final perfect vision to all of us
absolutely the question that I don't
know so we might have to put it in a
Dropbox Kristen because I don't know how
big it's going to be so okay as long as
we can get it to you guys and so the
other thing is is is you can see it
electronically but if you want a hard
copy with colored pictures and stuff
we're more than happy to print it out
just let us know okay I'm gonna my
time's up
I'm gonna thank you for your many hours
with us are we going to have a
presentation on the proposed amendments
are we ten minutes in a schedule yeah
we're ahead we're going to do if we
don't get out of here by
I have my all night plans sitting here
till 11:00 now this should be fairly
straightforward as we used to say you've
already seen these amendments we showed
them to you to sort of get an idea of
what you were thinking at our last work
session on the green necklace so this is
the proposal to limit new hotels motels
timeshare lodging conference centers and
completely enclosed storage units from
central Issaquah only so why why would
we want to do that
well we currently have five hotel motels
in the city limits we currently have six
completely enclosed storage unit uses in
the city limits and given what we want
to accomplish in central Issaquah being
all the density the housing all the new
growth in the next twenty to thirty
years we thought these uses might not be
super appropriate everywhere but just
limit them in a few places in central
Issaquah now again that we are not
changing how permitted they are in the
rest of the city
and I put those maps and the charts in
your packet to show that we're not
changing anything but proposing to
change in central and you have a just a
question you just can't hold on to this
might might be a dumb question Trish why
why is the emphasis on completely
enclosed because orange if you look in
the zoning code that's how they are
explained so I didn't I wanted to be
full disclosure that's what we're
limiting so non enclosed self storage
was already not permitted so that's just
- cope
I would I would guess that is correct
okay thank you so jumping back I think I
got everything therefore why if anyone
was curious as to why this is a great
map of the current storage units are in
bright blue and the current hotels and
motels are in bright green beautiful
beautiful and the zoning if you needed
to
by the zoning but we have a beautiful
collection of each and this is the
existing zoning permitted land uses in
again in central and we're taking it
from we'll start with hotels we're
taking we're proposing to take it out of
village residential out of mix juice out
of destination retail and out of
intensive commercial and leave it only
in the urban core which is the zone that
has the Pickering neighborhood which you
know where that is and the gilt most of
the Gilman neighborhood where you know
that is with the footnote you can read
it 25 is the Pickering sorry I misspoke
the Pickering neighborhood omelet which
would be north of the freeway in the
urban core zone and for storage any
questions on the hotel part okay AJ oh
go ahead so the storage is permitted oh
we're not there yet we're only doing
hotels first sorry so where's the
asterisks or the note
six and this is also in your packet this
exact chart I'm sorry I was looking at
the top and at the bottom I was doing
okay and this exact chart is on page
with two sets I love this it's either
page 29 of 44 or 47 of 62 depending on
which page numbers you go by we're gonna
have to fix that in our future life just
to be clear we are only discussing
allowing hotels to be in the Pickering
neighborhood only in central Issaquah
yes the only change for hotels and
motels any other change questions about
hotels before you're saying we're only
talking about that in central Issaquah
are any of the urban villages oh I guess
what's village residential that's not
open village village residential I
believe is over I was his word gateway
okay so
this would not change anything on urban
villages or areas out it's their great
Christ enjoy well right now for storage
units self storage completely enclosed
we are taking proposing to take them out
of mix juice out of village residential
out of urban core out of destination
retail and out of intensive commercial
and we have a footnote for those in
mixed juice that say parcels fronting
East Lake Sammamish Parkway south east
or 220 first place south east only so
we're trying again to locate those as
well in a location that seems to make
more land use sense
there any questions on that one sorry
attrition I couldn't hear what you said
I was explaining where we were proposing
to take them all out of this which
zoning districts were taking them out of
okay the the places with the little
crosses on it
so these charts are for the rest of the
city except for their urban villages
because those haven't quite and again
this isn't your packet if you can't read
this chart this is on the next page I
believe in your packet that just to
confirm that we aren't they are that
hotels and storage units and motels are
existing lis permitted in other zones in
the city several other zones in the city
and that we are not changing those at
all so I wanted to make you all
comfortable that we're this is only a
small localized change proposed the
prior page doesn't refer to bed and
breakfast and s house are those not
currently permitted in Issaquah I think
we're just not dealing with them at this
time okay so that's not being touched
okay right are those currently
permitting them I would guess so I
wouldn't know it zones off the top of my
head so that will still okay so and so
in some places like confluence you could
still have a B&B and usually be able to
hotel okay I would guess yes so any
other questions on
oh because they're so they can't write
any let's say you're a hotel that's now
not in one of these zones where you used
to be permitted and now you're not and
you want to put on an addition you'd
have to go through a different process
for increasing a nonconformity and it's
a little bit of a different process
depending on what you're asking for it's
not impossible to add onto a
non-conforming use but it's a it's
definitely harder than if you're
completely permitted when you put your
addition on or you make a change or
something however something like if I
believe it not being a current planner
but if some disaster happens which of
course we hope would not happen you are
able to rebuild I think it's a little
more generous on rebuilding and
non-conforming use so that we don't
penalize you for that other questions on
this one if you're comfortable moving
this one forward this is yes I was just
letting them know sort of what comes
next it would go to in April yeah I'm a
little nervous
and then council would take action then
in May if just to let you know sort of
that you don't this isn't one of those
that you get to that we would want you
to look at for eight meetings you know
this was this isn't intended to do that
so now if there's anybody that would
wish to speak I got one more question
the storage units on the rally
properties that are on Wall Street are I
assumed those wouldn't be included in
this because there's a development
agreement right okay is this impact what
rally can and cannot build because the
development agreement no because they
already have a development agreement in
25 more years yeah
okay I'm sure we will still be here okay
with that I'm going to open up the
public hearing if anybody is out there
that would like to make any comments on
what Trish just reported on please come
to the Eric bet to do the whole thing
with the name address and all that all
right Derek doke
I live at to 3/8 to 46th away southeast
Sammamish Washington and I'm a property
owner in Issaquah commercial properties
and a past member of the neck no
vitality Commission here so what I'm
here to talk about is trying to
understand the changes in the zoning as
relates to self storage I own property
over in the West Newport neighborhood
and actually two properties one's being
developed right now is Riva townhomes is
our property 36 townhomes going in and I
own property next to the gateway where
you have 400 apartments and 140 43
Senior Living facilities and then I've
got property right next to that which
has been under review and development
internally in our office for a enclosed
climate-controlled self-storage to fill
the demand in need of a community my
concern with this is we had a heavy
concentration on the north side of the
freeway and the neighborhoods on this
side aren't going to get the development
and have access to storages up going
through town or go down to Gilman or go
across the freeway and try and store or
they go into factorio which is what they
currently do because we have the highest
rates of cell storage per square foot
the reason why we're not building
apartments anymore right now in the area
we can make more per square foot doing
self storage you got its a clause the
highest rates and by limiting the use
here you're going to just put a monopoly
on the current self storage and the
rates will go higher so it doesn't help
the consumers at the end of the day what
I love about working
with this a quad in the city which I
have in the past is you guys definitely
put all residents first not just the
ones that come and talk and not just the
ones that write a big check so that I
thank you for and that's why I like
working with Keith and his team but this
is this one was one where I'm looking at
a supply and demand issue and right now
currently within our area where our
property is it's 5.55 square feet of
storage Abul space available and the
demand is 8.2 to 8.3 person current
market conditions so you add a bunch of
smaller apartments a bunch of smaller
residences what we've found in other
communities where people store things on
her balcony people store things outside
people rent those little storage boxes
and they put them on the property to get
the landlord approval because they want
the rental rate so there's other things
that can happen with that
and when Raleigh pulls their stuff
sorted out that's going to be less of a
amount of self storage I whole heart a
believe that self storage has a place I
truly believe that and a look and new
self storage facilities now look a lot
more like apartment buildings yeah you
know the one we're planning on called
the Gateway storage which would be at
the end of the Gateway neighborhood is
more developed like a lodge type of look
it has a earth-toned things like that to
go with the community so taking my
property out of it and just looking at
it the the the comments from my side is
making it an amenity for the community
we're heavy in tents on north side
getting across the freeway is already
difficult as it is now get people trying
to get storage in and out and we're
gonna have a more of a supply need in
the next five to seven years and we
currently have we already have a high
demand for storage in the area so thanks
for the time I appreciate it anybody
else would like to make a comment I will
Mel Morgan from the Development
Commission the I guess I'm this is a
real head-scratcher to me on the hotel
one I don't think I've ever seen the
city try to limit hotel development
within a downtown core to such a small
area
because the way I see it as I understand
it's really only the Costco Pickering
area that we're going to be able to
build hotels in out of all of the 908
while we can do it in West Newport but
there's really not land for it there and
and I guess I just don't see the reason
why we wouldn't include say the mixed
use area if you go up East Lake
Sammamish and there's a lot of retail
and restaurant uses and hotels usually
want to be developed around nightlife
type things where there's restaurants
and so you stay in hotel you want to be
able to go out of the hotel and walk to
a restaurant something like that
I think the Costco area Pickering is
going to be mostly a corporate campus
and to say you can only build a hotel
right there I to me it just doesn't make
a lot of sense and thinking that this is
a long-term plan why we want to make
that kind of limitation on where we put
hotels so you know there may be other
reasons but I suggest you take a hard
look at why it shouldn't be in the mixed
use retail area thank you thank you but
anybody else like to speak
David Kepler 255 southeast Android
straight I'm I think if we're going to
limit these two uses all hotels in the
self storage we've got to have an awful
good reason for doing that and I don't
see it
I mean self storage can be pretty ugly
it made it like that if that's a concern
let's address that it's nice and that it
doesn't require a lot of parking it
doesn't require much traffic which is
why it can be put in certain places then
and there is one on the south side at a
new port there when that building first
went up it was a shock to me but I don't
even notice it when I go by anymore and
it's it was an attempt to make it look
like not so much like a storage building
and hotels let the market decide about
hotels is my phone thank you anybody
else would like to make a comment they
know up nobody else I will close the
public hearing at 7:09 and open it up to
you guys
do you have any further well first of
all does the city have any Keith do you
have any answers to the proposals that
or objections that came out so you know
if we want to spend a little bit time on
why we can do that so when we talked
about this a little bit as a pre
discussion last time I'm gonna start
with hotels let's just I mean I think we
need to take these one by one they're
really not connected they're really two
separate things even though they're both
potentially going to be talking about
limiting them in their location but I
think they're two very separate things
so hotels when we talked about this last
time you know there was a little bit of
a conversation that you guys started
about why just Pickering
you know if we're gonna limit it to the
core you know that's one choice and if
it is the core then why not Pickering
and Gilman okay so that's one choice
part of part of the conversation about
hotels is who's staying here right and
so we actually did ask the hotels if
they would give us a breakdown of their
leisure versus business days because
they actually keep track of that kind of
stuff and the interesting thing is so
Holiday Inn didn't play with us so they
didn't give us any information but for
the Marriott that's on on maple their
leisure stays versus business days is
60/40 so 60% of our stays or leisure 40%
our business Hilton Garden Inn and
Homewood Suites which are in rally's
hila crossing area it's 80/20 business
to leisure now part of that is because
Costco has a corporate partnership with
Hilton and so and they have a lot of
their conference meetings at the Hilton
frankly so so there's some different
things going on here I think the reason
why this came forward too limited to
Pickering was a belief that a majority
of all of our hotel stays are business
oriented I think the data is showing a
little bit of a different kind of
outcome you know what's going on with
Motel six and Holiday Inn don't know but
they're out there too so so I think you
know if this was a conversation that if
this was our hotel generator if if
almost all of our stays were being
generated by our international corporate
campus then if there was going to be
more hotels why not put them close to
that destination so that people might be
then able to take you know a taxi Huber
lift from the airport come out here and
not have to have a car versus if you're
locating over you know in the Marriott
on 12 you know pretty much the only way
you would get to Costco's by a
rent-a-car
don't they have a shuttle I mean if
they're doing 80 percent of their
business the Costco wouldn't they have a
shuttle or something hotels do have
shuttles okay so that's that's one thing
I don't know that is one thing so you
know so that you know I'm there's there
is you know I think I think the question
is sometimes businesses locate where
land is available in cheap and you know
there are definitely some places in the
East Lake neighborhood that might fit
that category and you know if there was
a new hotel located somewhere over here
does that make sense you know do we want
to get down to that level of regulation
there's all these questions that I think
are up to you guys to talk through so
will this move block the proposed
mountainside Hotel this would not allow
the potential hotel that would be behind
Fred Meyer
now I don't know if they're still around
I mean when the moratorium gets lifted
we'll find that out but right now
obviously there's no way for anybody to
build a hotel unless it's in the
villages or in Old Town
but in central Issaquah right now we're
still under moratorium he's a quick
question yeah hotels do we currently
have today so right now there's there's
two in rally there's one on maple
there's Holiday Inn there's the motel
six and you said there's six so I don't
know which hotel okay so right now
there's five there is a piece of
property in Issaquah Highlands that was
sold to a hotel yer it is where city
serf wants to build their way pool so
there is a actual there's another hotel
site but the organ company that owns
that I don't think we'll build a hotel
there they were banking on a either a
Microsoft satellite campus or some other
corporate headquarters in the Highlands
and at this point I think they're saying
that's likely not going to happen and
they've been carrying that property for
probably ten years so it is probably
more likely going to be indoor surfing
facility than it will be a hotel but it
is owned by a hotel your franchisee out
of Oregon good polygons put a hotel on
one of those sites across the street yes
okay
John yeah I I mean I think that I don't
know if I agree with the theory of
limiting or directing you know if we
want something to happen somewhere and
we're saying that there's economics to
make it happen there I think you know
it'll happen there I don't know if we
need to limit it to just that one
neighborhood just because we want hotel
to go there at some point I don't know
if we need to limit it just to that one
neighborhood I'd be more in favor of
rather than letting it be wherever it's
gonna be if we could be a little more
broad in our I don't know targeting of
where we want that to go and allowing
where there are already hotels you know
for those hotels to potentially be
redeveloped without having to jump
through a bunch of Hoops if we want them
to you know if we think that's a good
place to have a hotel then it should be
able to be redeveloped as a hotel I
think in the Pickering area there's only
two hotels right there's the Holiday Inn
and then there's Motel 6
right and Holiday Inn has been talking
about an expansion oh we're looking at
it on average about 80 percent 75
percent of our hotel capacity is Costco
and there's not a hotel next to Costco
so of the Hilton to hotels that's true
on the Marriott that's on 12th it's
actually flipped the other direction so
it's 60 leisure 40 business the Marriott
doesn't have that many rooms compared to
the other two right so I'm thinking of
total room capacity 75 percent of our
total capacity for hotel rooms is
occupied by Costco and there's not a
hotel
to Costco right and you're right the
Hilton hotels are bigger than our other
hotels well the idea of economic and
they look at the economics of it they're
gonna build a hotel where it's the most
profitable for them and maybe not be in
the best place where we need a hotel
which is next to Costco the current
hotel that's there redevelops then there
would be a hotel near Costco right I
mean are we discounting it just because
it's an older hotel I'm not discounting
it I'm just saying like you're saying
there are no hotels over there
that's within walking distance yeah and
actually that one would still be in the
allowable hotels right if I'm reading
this right yeah that particular one is
the only one that's currently in that
zone and Motel six that would stay I
think all echo John's original comment I
I reject the narrative that I am having
hotels in Pickering versus Gillman that
changes who's gonna drive and he's gonna
not drive I think one if if Costco is
800-pound gorilla buses are going to
hotels gonna run shuttles and it that
that solves that problem and two people
aren't running cars because they're
taking uber to the hotel and then
they're taking you over to their
meetings to I don't I I think the the
concern about rental car traffic
circulation I think is a thing is it I
think is an on concern and I think my
second point is I think if if we want
the whole urban growth area to be a
vibrant regional destination I think
hotels an important part of that mix I
think especially if you want to drive
evening foot traffic and restaurant
traffic in the Gilman neighborhood
having hotel guests there both work and
leisure I think is an important part of
that mix people that are there for
hotels to spend more money than people
that that live in apartments the
neighborhood and so III think hotel
would be an asset to the Gilman
neighborhood
I don't know as strong feelings at least
lake I think hotels are fine there but
if people really want to not have hotels
and he's like that's fine but I think I
think Gilman and picker
there's a reason they're both are urban
growth area and not just one
and I think hotels belong and Gilman
another question this actually is about
both the storage in hotels are there
example other examples in code where we
so specifically dictate commercial uses
to this level even more but like so like
things like the marijuana shop I know
it's it's it's got a very specific
location bacteria yeah so that kind of
stuff does happen yeah great I'm curious
what everyone else thinks about you know
having the whole urban core just be a
you know being allowed allowing hotels
and just the that would be the
salmon-colored area the urban core I
have no problem with having hotels in
any of the areas well I want to back up
for a second I'm actually in
disagreement here and the reason why is
because this document isn't a permanent
solution this is a recommendation to in
a temporary what so if we put down and
we say we want to pray restriction Brown
why are you talking about how well we
can change it if it if we have the need
to change it we can always change it I
think we're trying to set it up so that
we can achieve the vision right yes but
here's the point if we want to put the
hotels and I think we need to put the
hotels closer to Pickering focus them
where they're not
if it's a problem we can always revisit
this and add them back in well we can't
I think we would be putting ourselves in
a bad position to not put that
restriction and now and let the hotels
go where where they want to go instead
of putting them where we they should be
closer to Costco you know I hear your
point about allowing or having people
use shuttles and uber yeah I think the
idea is also to put the hotel closer to
Costco so that people can walk work
instead of having to take a shuttle or a
rental car yeah I don't I don't buy that
logic at all I don't I don't think the
hotels should be in Pickering versus
Gilman I think I think they would do
great and both and then like your
comment was people should walk to work I
mean social we only allow apartments in
Pickering and not allow apartments oh
yeah once you walk I mean I don't I
don't I don't think that logic logic
stands up that's not the point the point
is if you are a vendor and you come into
the Costco area you're not likely to
have a car so you may be taking an uber
into Issaquah and staying at the hotel
in which case you could actually walk
from the hotel to Costco and you can
also have your meetings in the hotel as
opposed to actually having meetings at
the Costco property because they have
meetings outside of Costco in the hotels
as keith has just pointed out so if we
can get hotels to bill closer to Costco
then we also have people that are going
to be meeting in the hotels to have the
resources to do that and so we're not
going to have people driving outside of
Costco to these hotels for a meeting I
think you're making a lot of assumptions
about a particular customer or person
coming into our community that we don't
necessarily need to conjecture out into
I mean just you could say the same way
that you know someone not familiar with
the Northwest may not want to walk in
the rain that might be an odd concept
and so as someone who's been familiar
not specifically in Issaquah but with
Redmond and Bellevue specifically having
clients come in internationally they
almost always get a car and so we need
to look at what we want to have happen
in the future because right now is a
quad is an entirely walkable which is
what is would be
for someone coming inside of our
community to then forgo that since we
see that in the future we want to change
how we want to do it I think then the
argument needs to be more towards how we
want to see our space but this
discussion about a mythical person
coming into our community is I think
railing a little bit well when you say
mythical he just noted it 75 percent of
the capacity in our hotels is Costco
well there also have the larger hotels
are a partnership with Cosmo travel so
it's the numbers are a little skewed to
it towards that and more importantly
their work being confirmed that their
Costco there are other jobs there are
the reasons people it'll be in its grow
we're not a company down and that
doesn't even count the people who choose
not to stay in Issaquah because they
don't feel like there is a hotel that
they would like to stay in we're missing
out on that whole portion of people who
may be coming into Issaquah my parents
for example who choose to stay in
Bellevue because of the hotel stock at
this point so I I think may be good
weight thing but this ron is let's say
if it was the other way around and there
were no hotels currently permitted it's
a car for a reason
and in costco is coming into the city
and saying please can you permit a hotel
in Pickering so we can build the one for
all of our customers that come then the
conference okay yeah that would make
sense let's allow something that's not
currently allowed but here making if
it's so important to build hotels in
Pickering like that can still happen
we're not blocking that we're just
saying it can all addition to hotels
also make sense in Gilman I think I
think of the five different zoning
districts that they're currently allowed
in I think the only one that probably
doesn't make sense to continue to allow
in my opinion just because it doesn't
match kind of the vision we already
established is village residential I
think all the other I could picture
hotels and all the other neighborhoods
that generally align with visions that
we just spent so much time talking
through
in terms of nightlife and everything and
in our initial discussion like two
meetings ago I I I know I felt that in
when looking at kind of the future of
how we want our space to be we I shoulda
speak for myself and maybe others have
felt that that kind of area right now
that is the Fred Meyer and the hillside
we didn't I didn't have a problem with
hotels going in there thinking about
what this space can possibly be and so
in this future planning I'm I was a
little surprised by trying to sequester
everything right into Pickering I agree
I'm rereading the East Lake future
vision and hotels seem like they fit
that and I wouldn't want a you know a
ten story hotel tower because it's
supposed to be small and less dense but
it's a mixed use neighborhood and we
have our lid makes Gilman more walkable
from Pickering and so I do like that
idea that even if there was a hotel
located in Pickering it would be more
easy to be able to crossover the ninety
and impart taken services so I don't
know that we have to have a hotel in
every area but letting the market
dictate it seems a little at this point
I just worry that the mark when you say
market dictates and they're gonna go for
the least expensive property not in the
best interest in the community and I
again I want to just assert myself that
I think having hotels in the Pickering
is the best solution we have hotel we
have enough hotels everywhere else we
don't have enough where we need them the
most
I don't think there's some dire hotel
shortage that we're trying to it's all
this really feels like a solution in
search of a problem
so I'm gonna focus you guys so there's
you know somebody should make a motion
at some point I think your choices are
approve the administration's
recommendation which would be limited to
Pickering
you'll be deny and just send a we don't
want to limit hotels geographically or
it's a prove it to limit it to some
other GI
Rafi and I think John throughout you
know potentially West Newport doesn't
make sense so I think you guys have
three choices all like a motion to
approve the city's recommendations for
limiting the hotels to Pickering we'll
have a second no second then motion
fails no just somebody else Oh
motion to deny when you say deny you
mean no amendment on the yeah okay I
just want to be sure that's what you
know no amendment on the motion
no no amendment to the existing
allowance for hotels so they're allowed
okay where they're alive you have to
state it a little more yeah motion
motion to deny so no change to the
current zoning okay
any other discussion all those in favor
say aye aye opposed pose motion carries
okay so I am so self-storage okay so you
know so I don't know what to where to go
with this so you heard you heard from
someone who I trust knows the economics
of this and you know the reality is is
self storage is a hot commodity it's
based on current land values current
construction costs and current demand
self storages is a an appealing
development scenario for many builders
right now who get who are in that that
that game if you just build apartments
you wouldn't likely not get into the
self storage business you just wouldn't
so the concern is that
so we have one self-storage under
construction right now on Gilman it's
actually a very fine looking building
frankly from a self-storage perspective
if you have not gone and seen it it's
next to the gotcha and I actually think
it looks pretty nice but to to the point
that was made so we have done other
things in central Issaquah like approved
architectural guidelines which would
apply to anything that gets built
including self storage and so that is
there but the concern I think that was
expressed is when we lift the moratorium
if the market is wants more self storage
you know are we getting multiple self
storages on in places where maybe that's
not what we want long term you know so
when you talk about urban vibrancy self
storage would not be it there might be
two employees that might go out and get
a coffee at some point but you know it's
a big building and you know and from a
traffic standpoint it's not a big
traffic generator but it's definitely
not a big activity generator they are
not bevies of activity so so you know I
think you need to think about that in
terms of you know are those and knowing
how once something develops on a piece
of property it's probably gonna be there
for quite a while
you know so does that match some of the
visions you guys have talked about for
some of the neighborhoods and is there a
reason maybe that you might want to
limit it to certain parts of central
Issaquah or not again I think you you
know there's lots of choices here so if
you allow apartments in every building
or hotels in every building in every
district district and then you allow
verge units you have to look at what the
vision that you want for those
communities is and how much people how
much condos and apartments that you want
to be in with
put into those areas and does this make
a dent in what you think the
neighborhood should look like so so I
think we should ban storage in all
neighborhoods I don't think it fits any
of the visions I think the point about
urban vibrancy is is critical and you
you just don't drive street traffic
story you don't people don't treat their
storage unit like their closet and stop
by over a couple weeks that that's just
it's just not a traffic generator and so
I I don't think it fits in any of them I
think we're looking to have have have
businesses and places where people live
that drive traffic if you ever hotel
there are people that are coming in and
out every day there there are people
that work there they're the gas for self
storage unit it's it's kind of a blank a
blank building and it's nice if it looks
nice but it's still it's still basically
a blank facade that's not adding to the
vibrancy of the street life and so I
would actually like to see it just not
being allowed use anywhere now if you're
gonna build condos and apartments and
you want to have storage units in them
like that that's fine that makes sense
to me but it's the standalone storage
unit I don't I don't think fits the
vision for any of the neighborhoods so
to play devil's advocate the idea that
we're trying to create smaller units to
have more density and more housing these
people are going to likely need storage
if somebody is downsizing they will
likely need storage and so I think
there's a need particularly in the
direction that we're going where we want
to include that I don't quite know well
I think I think storage units I think
play an important space near absolutely
right especially as people move to small
living spaces that's why there's a
market demand for it but those don't
belong in our transit rich urban
neighborhood bime downsize and I'm
moving to central I saw and I've got
somebody's got to keep my old furniture
you know that should be you know a
20-minute drive from here nowhere close
to a transit stop
because I'm only gonna go there once
every three months storage units but
still are an important part of the
regional economy but having them be
within you know the ten minute walking
distance of a transit stop that seems
like a four uses land so I think I think
your point is totally valid the core but
they can still go someplace else they
can they can be built any places devil's
advocate idea the storage unit that was
built in the Highlands has retail on the
bottom floor we made them do that and so
that would be another kind of proposal
that I might say is if we're looking for
something that makes a self-storage more
vibrant for example if we're going into
the West Newport area where there isn't
retail where there isn't a coffee shop
and we can get something like that that
provides a little bit of local retail in
there that could be a good trade-off
maybe I'm kind of with AJ on this I
don't think we really care for storage
in the city because because of the
vibrancy issue with an exception the
Costco property because I think there is
a need for a storage facility in
Pickering as close to Costco as possible
because of Costco vendors they need a
place to put their stuff what this isn't
a warehouse this is this is like where'd
you put my personal storage that's where
our vendors their stuff isn't is our
story about vendors I care about the
people who are living here there's other
stuff so let's go can take care of their
own facility and their own storage if
they need it but that's not the point
these are vendors which are not employed
by Costco so they can't they don't have
a warehouse of put there there they're
good so they need a place to put their
goods so they use our or storage
facilities but
if our storage facility if we have a
storage facility close to Costco and the
vendors could use that storage instead
of the other storage lockers I think
right no it doesn't you're advocating
for like light industry and like
warehouse space that's a drier green for
but Ron you seem like you know that that
these units are used for that how do you
how do you know that or how where okay
so if you're a Costco vendor and you're
coming to Costco and on a routine basis
where you going to put your goods you
know in a warehouse in Kent
with pictures of what they're selling so
I you know I don't know how Costco
operates in their vendor system so I
can't speak any further about this but
Waianae was one about a store sure you
have any insight you could help me out
with on this I mean I want to fairly
represent Costco in this but I so that's
for the way so there's a variety right
because there's obviously a lot of
different goods that are sold in Costco
warehouses they have so they're planning
to build you know so they've got permits
in to build a new office building you
guys know that and then across the
street is a parking garage
on the ground floor of the parking
garage they're planning on basically the
first floor being rotating display space
so what happens if you are a vendor who
has Levi's jeans and you want to sell
them at Costco you would come up and set
up your display in their space so that
their execs can come look at it and see
what it would look like on their floor
there are people that sell Tyson chicken
that actually cook the chicken and bring
it to Costco to let people taste what it
is they want to sell and it's so it's
all over the place man so they're not
using self storage units to do that
right
I hope they're not putting chicken
itself sir it's so-so
I think I think what I would say is I
think Ron has at least a thread of truth
to what he's saying I don't know how
much but that that self-storage that's
going in next - Oh gotcha so that
doesn't seem like it's near Costco but
it actually is so given the new you know
so one of their vendors who was looking
to buy our building because it's
convenient to Costco also then rented
space in the medical building that's on
4th they asked if they could drive a
golf cart down the Pickering trail to
get from there basically their office
space to Costco hauling like chicken on
the golf cart I think we told them we
weren't okay with that but that's I mean
that's the craziness it's that crazy so
so there there would be people putting
goods in that new self storage that's
being built on Gilman probably that's
Costco related I I think that would be
true how much of that how much of that
square footage will be leased up by
Costco vendors I have no idea not
chickens inspector residents just a
slightly different question cuz I liked
what Lindsay said a minute ago about
storage with your commercial on the
ground on the ground floor do we have we
can get that granular here or and you
said on the one on the highlands you the
city made him do that basically we did
is that I mean do we have the ability
with what we're looking at here to say
it has to be mixed-use it's different on
the floor okay that was just I'm
contemplating that still and just
curiously we even had that ability so
you'd basically go into the land use
table and it would say self storage with
a certain portion of ground-floor retail
or non
or I think I think I think I'd be more
open that like you can't use I'm gonna
make a number up but you can't have more
than 50% of the square footage beep
self-storage or something like that
is it think it's going up it's not gonna
make a big difference I think you really
just want the ground floor and if it's a
ground floor on a big building that's
two feet two floors tall then you might
get to 50% but like looking at the one
in the highlands ground floor is very
small compared to the five but I think
even then if you look at the one in the
highlands like imagine if that had been
a couple fours of office space that
drove traffic and then the other floors
word for storage but expecting a
developer to be able to do retail
commercial and self storage I think I'm
just I don't I don't want to get
specific into like what they would be
doing in Lewis so storage I think that
is for every every square foot of
self-storage is less active space well
let me propose another question till
then as far as the Gateway goes if
Gateway was to provide storage for their
residents well that that's permitted
right if you can build storage sure in
yeah that's fine yeah I mean most I mean
most apartment builders you know they
try to figure out what they can actually
make money on right and so I'm gonna
make money on the apartments that I can
rent I can make money on parking spaces
that I provide you know probably there's
a certain amount of on-site storage that
they could generate revenue from but I
have not seen any doodad and it doesn't
mean that they don't I just haven't seen
any well I think to his point I just
want to make sure we we have all
stakeholders here covered if he created
storage space for his residents would
that be he doesn't have residents so
he's just he is a nearby piece of
property to Gateway that he wants to
build storage on okay to serve to serve
not only gay
way but all the other people in the
surrounding you know he knows AJ's got a
bunch of stuff that needs a home be just
so convenient and for me to apparently
okay I thought he was actually
representing outweighs all right sorry
about that
so it sounds like we're considering the
idea of mixed-use or some kind of
requirement of retail or commercial the
other thing that I think I heard earlier
is maybe not in the urban core not in
the Pickering and Gilman areas but okay
and the others how are we feeling about
those types of things so currently
proposed its it be banned from Gilman
and Pickering it would be allowed in in
a part of East Lake okay and 221st right
okay so but my opinion is I don't think
it belongs in East Lake either
we want all of these like to be vibrant
not just certain parts of East Lake but
but that's just my I agree i I think
that when we think about how much space
these origins take up even with a
ground-floor retail it's not what we've
envisioned as far as twenty years out
out the road and so I would be I would
be a proponent of making it way all
storage within within our urban core
within urban core and with such a lake
and such yeah
okay so then we would be basically
pushing anybody who wants to do outside
yeah in Salinas West Newport or
[Music]
confluence or other areas of a circle no
also also not West Newport and saying
nothing in something nothing in central
ok you have to be so you can still mean
as a co-op but just nothing in centers
so you could put it in the areas we took
out service and old route 10 you can put
it in the highlands you can put it in
Dallas you could put it in Old Town
could you put in Old Town I don't know
about that
no I'm sorry professional office retail
and I see yeah so that's not old town
not old town thank we're still far away
where it is already over do actually
pushing about the storage yeah in Petco
yes if we decide that we do not want
storage in Pickering or Gillman Costco
could still build storage because of the
cost called development agreement they
is so they could build it as part of
their development agreement but is what
I heard also is you know that you guys
were saying it could be accessory to
another use so if you wanted to build
storage with something maybe and I don't
know if you want to play with that one
or not it's up to you
now thinking it through the lens of the
Costco development agreement I think I'm
satisfied with not having storage in
Pickering yeah there's a rally
development agreement too and right
could certainly take their existing
storage and decide to go up something
tall that would be used by multiple
other people I don't know how I feel
about all of this I'm not sure which
direction I I seed I really on both
sides I feel like I don't understand the
economics of it enough to really yeah
I think one of my concerns is hearing
from a previous conversation that we had
about storage units is that when the
moratorium is lifted that right now the
like price per square foot that they use
for self storage I guess makes a lot of
sense and so there's a lot of potential
drive to build self storage and you know
I looked up other cities San Jose
California for example has gotten rid of
them because they need more housing and
you know different cities have done this
so I guess I can see the idea and I
think there is a concern that when the
moratorium is lifted that we might have
five different properties that want to
develop into self storage and I wouldn't
want that right market yeah yeah but I
don't see the but I think that's the
whole point is that we're supposed to be
planning for the community that we want
live-work-play
so I think this is a good example of how
hotels and storage units are very
different and so they serve us a very
different thing and like I said I don't
have a problem with storage units like
they think they're very handy thing I've
used them myself but putting them in
this in the in the core having them even
in central Issaquah I think it is
diluting what we want as having what
we've been trying to create so I would
say they can still meet as a quasi it's
just not in you know I think about like
South Lake Union Seattle for example
like if massive storage needs there
it's still a very vibrant community I
feel like it's not necessarily mutually
exclusive to have to want a vibrant
community and also incorporate storage
into that human there's plenty of cities
that have self storage units in very
very urban areas and they're well used
and well we have some they exist it's
you know six of them yeah
the storage that was allowed in the
mixed-use residential had the commentary
on it only as an accessory to permitted
use can you explain what that is or what
that would look like
so accessory to a permitted use would be
like if you build residential and you
wanted to put storage with it you could
do that but it could be the primary use
it couldn't be you know the thing that
you talked about earlier which is a
mixed-use project where there might be
some ground-floor retail that would not
be you couldn't then build four storeys
of storage above it and call it
accessory to that retail on the ground
floor because there's the there's the
office with the boxes in it right so you
know it's it's about it's a minor
component to another use that's allowed
I would be fine having that same
language and all the zones rather than
having it being prohibited just being
allowed as an accessory that seems
reasonable
what about that Plus allowing it as only
storage in the area that was proposed
off East Lake Sammamish Parkway I know I
still don't like that I think I don't
see no reason to single out a component
of East Lake if there was different if
that was so special it would be a
different neighborhood I think we should
be consistent no I don't think that
matches our vision of East Lake I think
it matches what East Lake is currently
yeah and we don't want to limit the
storage there that's probably gonna stay
like that's fine so if looking through
it's because we don't have to say all or
nothing
are there any of these zoning districts
such as intensive commercial or village
residential where we would feel
comfortable
so I was kind of trying to think about
the hotels too but yeah I don't like I
don't mind it outside of central and
when you think about old service I mean
there's there's ways to be close to the
core without being in central Issaquah
isn't that what intensive commercial is
this isn't that service yes area yes
okay I think that's a great place for
storage then oh why old service our old
ten which which sorry older out Hannah's
destination retail okay yeah so I think
destination retail does not make sense
yeah I think intensive commercial
leaving is permitted you seems yeah
reasonable look Keith question what are
you City Council currently thinking
where's Lena tours currently has it
gotten to them yet they're waiting for
your recommendation what's your thought
[Laughter]
the administration's position is we
should limit it to two twenty first and
properties fronting East Lake Sammamish
Parkway that's the administration's
recommendation so okay can't make a
motion so I believe I've listed some so
you guys have talked about so I'm gonna
try and focus you now because it seems
like we're losing energy so you guys
talked about allowing it if it's mixed
use you guys talked about a different
geography either eliminating it all the
way from central Issaquah or picking
some different neighborhoods to
eliminate it from and then you also
talked about allowing it as an accessory
used to something else but not as a
primary use so that's what I've heard so
far so we got to start with a motion of
something so let's put it on the table
I've got one of sorry I think the motion
is this isn't the motion yet so I think
the motion is to change it so
that it is only permitted as an
accessory for all zoning districts
within central Issaquah and so the
change is to match what's currently in
mru for the rest of them but then not
touch intensive commercial I would yeah
I was gonna say I would be open to
leaving intensive commercial as
permitted yeah I would also potentially
be open to village residential as
permitted because I think that has a
different feel for me it's closer to our
urban villages where I think the storage
being close to housing make sense and
doesn't take away from a vibrancy that
we're trying to get in urban core Keith
are we looking to make a change for
zones across the city or just zones and
central ISO quoi okay yeah yeah I don't
want to touch what's permitted and like
the Highlands yes village residential is
West Newport yes has a little bit of a
different feel to me and that's why I
say it feels a little bit more like
urban villages idea it's not as dense
yeah I don't I don't want any what's
confluence confluences mixed-use
residential or no no I that's why
through dad thing I think I wanted
because he was saying if there was a
motion it would be kind of this and I
responded kind of work out our mother
yeah yeah so I think so I think the only
one so I think so let's do buy limit so
I think we're okay with keeping
intensive commercializes mm-hmm and I
think we we definitely want to ban it
from urban core
yeah mixed-use and destination retro
yeah except for except for and so I
think the only one that's maybe left to
discuss is build residential for banning
it from village residential why because
I think that it's not the intention of
how we want to put our space this is
what this is a lot this would be a lot
of space that could be used in a
different and the footprint can be used
very differently from how we've
envisioned where
we want is it want to go and the thing
is is if we're saying people are gonna
be living in a smaller units I mean I
feel like we're then saying oh but but
then we're trying to make accommodate
for these other things I mean if you're
gonna live in a smaller unit then you've
already made that lifestyle choice and
your decision to get a storage unit
isn't actually going to be based on if
it's close to you or not you're going to
need a storage unit or you're not so
having it actually take up space in our
community when it could actually be
something else to me is more of the
vision that we've talked about over the
last length of time I completely agree
with you one person was exact same
reason okay not hard put either way yeah
I I agree but not nearly as passionately
what do you guys think we're gonna keep
intensive commercial intensive yeah okay
yes so since we is the resultant that
you're saying just not in central
Issaquah is there any area in central is
equality except for as an accessory to
other use yeah so I think we're okay
allowing as accessory to other use in
all yeah okay so your point Keith were
you simply saying there's no intensive
commercial in central so exclude what
I'm hearing is exclude storage except as
an accessory use to another use yes
what's in central is Laurel essential is
good except for commercial yes except
for intensive Commission's Folies ever
commercial we took out the service
neighborhood we have three four parcels
okay where are those four parcels well
they're on yeah yeah I don't quite
understand when we say exclude storage
except as an accessory to other use what
are you referring to buy Assessor each
other use so I believe page 29 if you
look at the actual permanent land uses
the table yeah so that's yes so that's
that's the existing text so that I'm
leveraging for mru or mm you are
it's saying if you've got a residential
unit and the residential apartments want
to build a little set of storage that's
fine so there might be a free-standing
storage unit but it's within the context
of a couple of buildings or something is
that is that accurate Keith sorry I was
happy writing stuff wait wait what oh
the rounded s of a clarification on the
accessory to permitted use that's the
idea that you could have a free-standing
storage building it would just be in the
context of some greater development you
could not have a free-standing storage
building if I would have to be part of
some other could be part of an office
building it could be part of a that's
I'm saying if I'm building a three
building project and the third smallest
building could be storage you could be
in the space basically yeah that's only
an accessory told you would it so if you
build like let's say you built an
apartment project that had two buildings
and five hundred housing units and you
wanted to put some on-site storage as
part of that project and it just
happened to be in a standalone because
right you should do that yeah but you'd
be permanent at the same time right yeah
I know you'd never build it you could
but it wouldn't happen right yeah I was
just I think we were trying to
understand what accessories yeah okay so
I would say let's allow let's permit
self storage in I see even though
there's only a few parcels in central
DiCicco I think it still speaks to the
idea of intensive commercial is make
sense for there's a reason there's own
that way yeah presumably by trust the
existing zoning yeah okay good
and we say that Lindsay you mean
standalone an intensive commercial right
not as an accessory is correct okay so
is somebody gonna make that motion
all right so a motion to change the
existing zoning in central Iowa to
change all zoning districts except for
intensive commercial to allow storage
only as an accessory use I get that
right and you're changing the
recommendation to permit intensive
commercial so can you just read that
that last bullet okay so motion
your words were wonderful I think that's
clear okay motion for in Central School
for all zones except for in terms of
commercial to exclude storage except as
accessory to other use is that what you
were intending I believe I said the same
thing in two different eyes I think hey
second the motion
all those in favor I'm nope so has to be
clear all those in favor raise your hand
the one two three four I'm not voting so
I'll put my hand down
great the three to me what so screw you
too
yeah no it's three to three if I vote a
303 okay did you vote no I'm going to
vote and you're voting against yeah okay
okay so we have a time does that mean I
get to vote so do you want to so you
guys got for further discussion well so
your choice you can either jointly
search one choice would be you guys send
it forward three to three and and it
would be helpful for the council to
understand why the three that voted
against this voted against this so we
could either do that the second choice
is to have somebody make a different
motion and see if that passes it would
need to get seconded and see if that
passes and then the third choice would
you guys ask us to do something and we
bring
back to your next Commission meeting so
three choices let's take a let's take
one more stab at it here from the three
who voted no right now if you just
stopped one minute with all your energy
we can have further discussion and I
think we really need the further
discussion to look at the areas that and
what the impacts it would be to just say
I don't want it in any neighborhood it's
not really kosher it's you need to have
more reasons than I just don't like it
you know I I think that we need storage
we just have to put it in the right
place and I don't think that just saying
it's still a accessory whatever other
use is the way to go that could end up
with buildings everywhere yeah maybe
I'll just where I am on this why I said
no is I mean I as much as I it deeply
worries me that people need so much
storage I understand it's a great
business model and I appreciate that it
scares me Americans I mean I I don't I
also don't like limiting what people can
do what they want to invest in the
community then let them invest in the
community and if you get the most money
for storage means I don't think that's
great but I can't fault somebody for
wanting to build a project like that and
the one on Gilman did surprise me I was
like man what is that thing gonna be and
then just said I did I see a sign of it
oh that's a storage unit I was like huh
but okay whatever so that's right I'm
gonna like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna
want to limit it anywhere and I
understand that with the visions and
everything we just did I understand that
the principles behind what everyone says
but people want to invest in the
community I'm not going to stop them I'm
very aligned with that I guess I'd the
only thing I would add is that I don't
understand the economics of it and the
needs of people in our community to be
in close proximity I guess I don't
understand that relationship enough to
make
heads or tails of it one way or the
other and I wouldn't want to make it a
recommendation based on something I
don't fully understand the needs there
and I can totally appreciate that we
typically think that storage equals non
vibrant equals not yeah it doesn't match
what our vision is for a lot of these
neighborhoods so I want to keep that in
mind but I don't feel comfortable saying
wholeheartedly except for four parcels
that we can't have full-on self storage
units because I think there are smart
places that we could put them that would
still allow our community to be vibrant
Keith can I ask a question if we decide
to ask you for more information and have
it come back to us at the next meeting
how does that affect it's processed
through particularly with potentially
the end of the moratorium coming up so I
would say two things one is we're
expecting the vision conversation to be
at lunch or at least twice so that's
through May so I don't know when your
next meeting is but my guess is we could
come back and have another conversation
on this if you wanted to my second part
would be what would you want us to give
you I mean what would help this
conversation along because I'm not sure
I mean I think I think the dynamic is
you know everybody uses storage for
different reasons
I had a storage unit at one point when I
was in an apartment because my kayak
would not fit in my apartment and so I
had to get a storage unit just for my
kayak I was glad to get the house
because then I could move it into the
garage just renting a car long story you
know but people have furniture that
maybe their parents gave them that
doesn't fit in their place maybe they
think they're gonna save it for their
kids who are never really going to want
it you know there's there's a whole
litany of stories why people have stuff
we are we are a society of there's at
least at least one or two generations
where stuff was really important and
unfortunately they're still oh well I
don't say unfortunate they're still
around cuz I think I'm one of them so
you know so there's so that's the
dynamic is people have stuff and the
question is they don't go get their
stuff and and and deal with their stuff
daily most of them don't some do if
people if you have Costco vendors that
are using storage spaces to store
product they might be in and out of
their units fairly frequently but for
most people they put stuff there and
they pay their monthly lease rates and
they might go visit it add stuff take
stuff out like two times a year and so
it's up to the Commission if they want
that closed public hearing so you want
to open it again and allow it we've done
it before it's not wrong with it because
right now this is the the closest we
have to having some educate information
on the market so I'm a green up come on
mister don't you are back and storage
facilities the jury they use is holiday
season five by eights are the biggest
renters out in this marketplace and
people store their holiday stuff their
Easter Christmas whatever holiday
Halloween it's surprising but that's
what they use it for and so the
proximity to where they're at they
actually put their holidays and the
other is activities there's people that
will have their hunting fishing
scrapbooking I don't people that
scrapbook in their storage facility so
it's it's used as the garage because
most of garages now is we've all seen
are a lot smaller so you want to get you
know if you have your neighbors put
their cars in their garage which I like
once in a while they store them in other
places so in the communities
there's a lot of storage and out here
the studies have shown that the 5x8 it's
not the big huge ones you see but it's
the small ones that people who for this
that little extra storage so that was it
no Derek can I ask a question yeah what
are the economics of developing an
apartment complex with on-site storage
how does that well the problems the
reason why you don't put it in on
apartments as Keith alluded to is the
cost of subterranean parking is so
expensive you don't want to give up that
concrete that one our concrete thick
wall to a storage facility and they
don't get rented out it's interesting is
that storage facilities don't get rented
in apartments but to be a storage
facility right next door and they'll
rent their it shape cheaper off-site
then then develop those cheaper in the
development for the the renter but it's
more expensive for the developer because
you've got to put utilities mechanical
and things like that take them I just
mean to the consumer to pay for that
space correct typically the the
apartment
you know property manager has to charge
more for the space on-site then the guy
next door with the correct ADA storage
correct and they'll charge more in rent
because they have to spend more to do
the development because it does cost a
lot more to build the storage was still
the inside and apartment building that
does the cost just to do a standalone
storage facility is there anything that
could be done to encourage on-site
development from a zoning or code
perspective that would make that math
work a little easier for apartments
Department guys won't put them in they
never even they don't include him and I
don't know if how many were around in
2003 in the development phase but that
was back when Seattle and Kirkland force
all the developers but commercial condos
at the base and they had a hard time
with that now they do it because vibrant
it brings in the people right so you see
more of that but yeah the storage
facilities and apartments just don't get
rented and it takes up a lot of space
and cost them too much to build it to
build a apartment building right how's
about 178 to $200 a square foot to build
a type 5 construction which is a
concrete podium and stick above it and
then a storage facility is about 58 to
63 dollars a square foot and that's
pretty nice one that's the one where you
have the nice glass on the outside you
get the nice look so it's
concur to stick construction well
storage facilities usually will have
concrete and steel because you'll do
steel framing and then on the interior
you stay with steel so it's a longer
life of a facility that's why it's still
cheaper it's still cheaper because you
remember all the mechanical you know all
the fixtures the finishings all that the
drag on utilities it's it's a lot more
expensive to build on the apartment
sakes you got finishing here you're
building the facility put in a security
system so it's so it's a little
different so there is the demand you
know whether it where it goes again
freak take me out of it wherever it goes
there's still a need for it somewhere
along the line hope that helps thank you
I would rather have a nicely built
facility that is a nice big facility and
having little ones I don't think the
idea of saying as an accessory to is
really saying that there's going to be a
separate building to let somebody yeah I
think it's really saying if an apartment
wants to put units down in their garage
they're allowed to
well how I've developed Irish sorry I'm
sorry I think that'd be allowed to do
that anyway they're using those units
for the for the people who are renting
there I think so Joan your your concern
is about allowing it as an accessory use
I well just me I would rather see a
really nicely landscaped nice building
where there's quite a few units in it
than having smaller units throughout the
city that's just my thought Trish how
have as its previously been allowed and
the mixed-use residential with this a
strict how have developers been doing it
how has the accessory to be a permanent
been used in mixed juice I don't know
have we gotten up start unit in mixed
use
right I don't think we've gotten one in
central yeah with that Esther what's
that yeah one on Newport that looks like
a castle came in because there was no
zoning that prohibited it and so after
it came in it was built then they
changed the zoning they didn't allow
that to continue so that's not a castle
I think that's why we really need to
look at the zone and see what we want
any where you want huge thing so again I
think the only argument I'll make Joan
and this is repeating the conversation
Lindsey and I were having if if the kids
if your concern is what we need to have
a storage somewhere I absolutely agree
and then and I don't think we should ban
it in the whole city
it's it specifically doesn't belong in
central Iowa so I think I think if your
concern is well there's a legitimate
need in the community first for storage
I think I think I can I think you can
absolutely agree with that sentiment
we're just saying we're just specifying
particular parts of the city where it's
not the best use there's still I think
everyone and the Commission would agree
that that it's okay that there would be
more so storage being built in a circle
as it continues to grow we're just
trying to choose where that is yes I
think that's all or you might come out
of there different ways but I think
that's all we're all trying to get right
there as we allow it and everything and
nothing where do you want to be specific
this is up to you to look at so we had
one motion three or three we can have
additional motions your change to add to
do whatever you want so you want to come
up with a decision tonight or do you
want to go back and look at the areas of
the city and say yes and no I don't want
it here you
want this what do you want to make a
decision so it's up to you so Lindsay I
was going to move to have the
administration come back in our next
meeting with more information on the
demand or is self storage units because
I think the thing that's driving this is
a concern that we're going to get a lot
of cell storage units all at once and so
I think we need a little bit more
information about that to say is that a
valid you're shaking your head I'm not
sure so you know I think we can talk to
people who are interested in doing that
we can talk to the developer who's
building the one on Gilman and try and
get information I there's it's not like
I can call storage R Us and they'll tell
me that hey here's the demand in
Issaquah you know and and and that'll be
satisfied by three or four new storage
facilities right I mean I don't know
that that kind of information exists
Derrick might know otherwise and you may
or may not want to share that cost per
square foot price per square foot we
just suggest that there's a high demand
but maybe I'm wrong in the idea that I
thought this was coming up at this point
because the moratorium is ending and we
want to potentially preclude large
influx preclude or bend it right I mean
so the question is is yes if if we I
think what we believe to be true is that
right now and you heard it tonight right
now there is demand for additional
storage units in our community if if we
preclude it throughout our community
then they will go that demand will be
transferred to North Bend or Snoqualmie
or Bellevue or somewhere else or
Sammamish yes
so you could build it in the highlands
you could build it in talus you could
build it in icy outside of central or
maybe even inside of central so that's
kind of where you'd be limited to I
don't think we have to worry about the
demand I think our job is to look and
see which areas it fits
you know Ron said you can always come
back and change things you don't want to
do that if you want to come up in with a
good idea of what you want but I think
that I don't I don't care how much
demand it is for all I know no more will
be built or there'll be 12 in the areas
that you believe they should go in
you're looking at a vision where do you
want this to be how do you want the
communities to be set up so you know I
don't care about Costco I think Costco
can take care of themselves I I know
that I have a lot of clients that you
know they're moving in and out of
housing they want it for two months
three months and they're gone
so they need that but they don't look
they don't go and see it every day they
put it there when they move they move at
once but where does it fit in the city
that's the only question so we're
continuing to have the conversation but
I think what we need to be talking about
now is what our next step is as far as
emotion are we I don't I don't think
we're gonna learn anything more from the
staff so I think my my suggestion is if
the three you guys aren't gonna aren't
gonna support the existing motion we
forward it at that three three we come
up with enough
motion but I don't think there is
another motion well is there anything
from the three of you I'll make a motion
to preclude all storage within central
Issaquah so basically taking it out so
not having it in front the East Lake
Sammamish I'm taking the staff
suggestion except for I'm taking out
their amendment of Lake Sammamish
Parkway southeast so that's the same as
mine but then dropping that drive use
now second down it's more extreme yeah
okay I don't know the motions been
seconded okay so the motions but
seconded all those in favor say aye
I mind you post John 3:3 you know we've
done this twice now it's come out the
same so I don't think that unless we're
really different we're gonna come up
with a different emotion so I propose
that we send it on three two three and
has everybody who voted so that was your
motion is somebody gonna second that
I'll second that
I can't make a motion so oh go for it I
motion that we move to put our
discussion forward to Council as a split
decision saying that we have you know
basically representing that we have one
group saying we don't see this as being
what we want to have in central and
another group saying we want to be able
to let the market drive and have the
most economic vitality possible and put
it to them have a second second
all those in favor say aye aye Russian
Karen's awesome thank you guys
when are they gonna talk about that
April 19th
are you more things for us to go and
talk to April 19th will be 8 it's a big
day I've been in council committee
meeting happening that Spring Break okay
I don't like Spring Breaks I don't know
okay so we have one more on okay I've
lost control there one more thing on the
docket mess easy use I gotta run so
sorry
crisp tonight you would like to think
about what we talked about John so
Kristen would like to tell us all about
ad use I would very much so just right
this way accessory dwelling units I hate
the word subordinate but that's what
they are they're subordinate dwelling
units that are added to created within
or detached from a single-family primary
residence with a separate entrance that
provides basic requirements for living
and when we look at when we okay
accessory dwelling units in in it within
our department and within the city it
really becomes an accessory dwelling in
it when it has a cooking unit when it
has a stove and oven they're not just a
microwave that's plugged in a stove in
an oven do they have their own address
they do then they're required to have
their own address but you cannot buy
them separately correct it is rented out
so up here I have samples the first time
these are all in Issaquah the first on
the left is a detached you can barely
see that other roof sticking up behind
it there's a basement this one's in
Tallis it's down below in the back and
then this one in also in Old Town is
over the garage
so you may recall that you worked on a
housing strategy in 2017 with other
commissions and the City Council adopted
it in September 2017 there were nine
strategies involved in the housing plan
this is focused on the first strategy
the first strategy says remove barriers
to facilitate the construction of 80 use
accessory dwelling units particularly
processing and cost so some of the
policy issues that came up were ad use
are intended to be an accessory unit so
keep it that way
city code should encourage the creation
of a to use while respecting the
neighborhoods where they live where they
are located
particularly the parking entrances and
consider allowing them into all
neighborhoods the city should seek
opportunities to minimize the regulatory
costs for the construction of a to use
and actions can include permitting
process continued exemption of impact
fees and connection to utilities so this
is where our primary focus is going to
be tonight and then the last one is the
sitter city will consider ways to help
promote ad use and get more people who
want to develop those so some of the
benefits of ad use why do them they
create affordable housing options they
foster and support extended families so
maybe you need a place for your mom or
your kids are coming back home after
college and you don't want them in the
house they're going to the ad you allow
family members primarily older adults to
live independently at a reduced cost
potentially qualifies first-time
homebuyers for larger home loans
provides an extra income for them or it
have more choices in using your home and
provides extra income for mortgage
payments home repairs anything that you
may need to get done so our existing
code requires a land use permit which is
a level one in addition to the building
permit that they have to get a covenant
must be recorded with the county saying
that we have an Adu here a property
owner lives in one of the units either
in the primary residence or they ATU
that this is the address and that if we
violate any codes we agree to get rid of
the ad you
one-eighty you provide might just
started with that one a tu is allowed
per legal lot so you can't have one in
your basement and one above your garage
it's one or the other you cannot exceed
more than 40% of the total square
footage of the ad you and the primary
residence combined the door can may be
located on the front or the side but it
has to be screened so the idea is that
you don't want it to look like a duplex
AJ I don't get it and and one off street
parking space is required what don't you
get what screened the screening yeah so
just kind of you don't want it you want
them you want the view to be mitigated
from the street so you want it to still
look like a single-family house so you
might have the door off to the side of
the front but you puts you know you put
some lattice work you know and slants up
in front what's what's yeah okay now I
get the screen what's wrong with it
looking like a duplex
it changes the character it starts to
look more multifamily and maybe more
rental and xxx is generally allowed
they're allowed well they're allowed in
the single-family duplex zone that's it
and ad user allowed pretty much
everywhere so so we started this I got
to tell you this is this was out of my
wheelhouse
so this goes everywhere it touches
engineering and building and billing and
permitting and stuff that I haven't done
before so I don't know if this will help
you but it helped me so we looked at all
the different kind of issues that were
out there we had additional water meters
required for different reasons we had a
lack of education and marketing there
were people that who couldn't do an Adu
because of the forty percent requirement
maybe they wanted to convert a basement
but if 40 percent meant that they had a
hundred square feet over here on the
side of the basement they didn't know
what to do with it so that was a barrier
it was also hard to calculate ad use can
be hard for emergency crews to find
there was elimination of an Adu that
came up recently that the process wasn't
clear on how to do that
um I already have that one up there i
duplicated a few things um
owner occupancy came up do we want to
require owner occupancy lack of
character said is that is that an issue
it kind of goes to AJ's question and
then parking that had come up a couple
of times thinking that people were
parking on the streets so why did you
mark the final three is not an issue
well I was gonna go through those um so
let me start at the top additional water
meters that can add about $15,000 to the
cost of an ad use so we said that needs
to be addressed and we've done it we
won't really talk about it tonight
that's an administrative amendment we
are no longer requiring that you have a
second meter now if you have more
fixtures than your current meter can
allow you may have to upgrade your meter
but we're not going to require it a
second one just automatically they're
often treated as duplexes too so that's
part of it so we're going to clarify
some just documents that we have in
house this treated as a duplex and so
that they don't have to do that
education is clear we just we need to
educate people on that you can do it
here's how you do it so we'll do that
I'm the convert the entire floor I think
I talked about that one why that was
difficult that's a code amendment that
we'll talk about hard for emergency
crews to find fire requires automat
right now that they've already put in a
4-foot walkway it's not in the land
whose code we want to see it there
anyway as part of the character as well
so we're doing that as a code amendment
or we're proposing that and when I am
elimination of the ATU is a process but
it's also code amendment um but the last
ones let me skip down to owner occupancy
we decided that was not an issue we won
owner occupancy because you feel like
people tend to feel like properties are
going to be given more attention if the
owner lives there whereas if the owner
lives in Colorado and you've got renters
in the that are there they may not take
the same kind of care of the house or
the yard that the owner would do and
looked at 47 different cities and of
those only 10 did not require owner
occupancy it's the general feeling
across-the-board lack of character we
decided wasn't really it wasn't really
an issue and we've kind of found a way
to address that if it does we'll get
that to that in a minute we hadn't heard
any complaints about it and I same thing
with parking and it came up that it
means additional on street parking but
it doesn't there have been no complaint
to talk to code enforcement nothing's
come up regarding that so we decided not
to address that one at this time so as I
kind of mentioned as a three-part
process we have the code amendments that
we'll talk about and that is under your
purview so that is what your
recommendation is regarding tonight
their administrative amendments that I
talked about that we will that we're
doing in-house currently marketing and
outreach we are going to work on that
which arch and the other arch cities
because this has become a regional issue
as well as potentially financing this
came up through arch and it's making
banks more aware of it and what a
benefit it is to the property owners but
it's also potentially an Arthur's here
just talked about it to you but looking
at ways to potentially help finance
these and help owner homeowners build a
to use whether it be a regional thing
like our trust fund that we have
currently or cities suing it
independently so I'm starting this is
what you this is under your purview so
the first amendment that we're proposing
is a single fan just adding
clarification in here that a single
family structure with an accessory
dwelling unit is not considered to be a
duplex that way it's in code and not
just in our internal documents so it's
out there that that addresses the extra
meter thing this is kind of small but
this changes it from a level one process
to a level zero process which means that
all they have to get is a building
permit not a land you not a land use
permit and this knocks off about eight
weeks from their time and it also knocks
off about $500 from the permitting
process so while this really isn't under
I mean this is a different part of the
code but you can see here we've knocked
off the $500 but
we are giving them the option to do so
right now they could do a
pre-application meeting but it would
cost them $2,500 so we're saying now you
have the option if you would like to do
a pre-application meeting but it's only
going to cost you 250 now before that
there's also if they want to do at a
collaboration meeting which cost nothing
this just formalizes it and make sure
that all the departments so it's
optional
oh this clarifies that it initially said
that it can only be located within a
single-family house and this says that
it can be within or detached from and
then the other part down here is the
grandfathering and existing dwellings
there are I know lots of ad use located
in the city that are that do not have
covenants therefore they are not legal a
to use this hopes this gives them a
process by which they can legalize it it
adds value to their home if they do
legalize it and so this just we didn't
have a process in place so this is part
of it part of that would include they
have to do an inspection with that that
gets attached to a building permit and
then we have a record of it and it's all
hunky-dory right well this goes back to
the elimination we had a something come
up recently and they thought they
eliminated and they hadn't this adds
process and what we did is it requires
an inspection to ensure the removal of
the stove oven unit that kitchen piece
and also has to be recorded with the
county and that has to be shown to us
this goes to the size so I explained
part of the issue with the forty forty
percent excuse me it's hard for people
to calculate it's hard for applicants to
calculate and so what we're proposing is
just simply you cannot exceed a thousand
square feet and the thousand isn't a
random number it's what is used
currently and will continue to be used
in Issaquah Highlands and talus so it's
consistent with what they have they can
they could go over that thousand square
feet if it's located on a single floor
and the increased square footage makes
more efficient use of that space like
the basement scenario
and if the ATU has outside walls and
increased size that will allow for
architectural elements to help it blend
better with in the neighborhood so that
goes to addressing the character that we
talked about earlier I think this is
really elegant this is nice okay okay
this addresses the four-foot wide
walkway it's currently addressed by fire
but it's not obvious to property owners
when they walk in that they have to do
it so we're just including it in the
code and it does have to be on the
address side of the street so that fire
I can't remember who asked if it had to
be addressed but so that fire can find
them from the street side so that's it
for the proposed code amendments um I
talked about the other pieces of the
$15,000 and clarifying all that
paperwork in-house and we're also
planning on doing a step by step this is
how you do it and if this happens then
this may happen just to let them know
that it's not as clean-cut as it may
look you know you might have to increase
the size of your meter or you might have
to do something else that you to meet
code and working with arch is another
piece of this and other jurisdictions
that's all I have next steps are gonna
follow the hotels and storage units so
they go to land ashore commit land
ashore on April 19th and then back to
Council on May 7th and then we will
continue to work with arch and the other
jurisdictions throughout 2017 and 2018
Arthur I've been doing all the talking
you haven't going to say and the public
here I didn't know if he had a piece of
this presentation though he did add on
to do you want to say anything okay yes
okay so you don't have that - okay so
but there is still I have to open the
public hearing at 8:37 and ask if
there's anybody that would like to speak
okay so Connie Marsh interestingly one
of these went to river and streams a
couple of days ago because they want to
do an ad you in a 100 percent
constrained critical area property so
that I I don't think you should have an
accessory dwelling unit allowed in a
100% critical area constrained
properties and when you say how they can
expand I don't think that we want them
to expand into the critical areas to
actually harm the environment as the
extra unit of a parcel we want to have
them but we don't want to have negative
impacts from them right so I don't know
how it resolved I I didn't get to go to
that meeting there was another one
happening so did that make sense though
seeing no other people willing to
comment I'm going to close the public
hearing it 839 and open it up for
questions I've got quite a few questions
so one I would like to address parking
we have one in my neighborhood we have
one unit that has a accessory dwelling
unit installed and they basically
thumbed their nose at the whole parking
thing and they park on the street after
the police have already told them they
cannot but the police will not cite them
well we have a resident and
the address layer but they actually do
Park on the street and we've got another
neighbor who wants to build a necessary
dwelling unit and they are using the
same argument they don't have enough
parking beyond there for their own unit
and so they are gonna put the accessory
dwelling unit on the street as well so I
think parking will be abused it may not
be an issue globally yet but I think it
will be too the other question I have is
about furnace central or a separate
heating unit if we have a conversion to
an assessment dwelling unit how are they
going to get heat would it be separate
from the housing unit and would it be or
would it be the same that's covered
under the building code way out of my
purview but they're required to have it
and there are standards that set up how
that is done safely and correctly but
that's out of my purview and as for the
parking every Adu so every single family
home is required to have two off-street
parking spaces every Adu is required to
have one off street parking space do you
see the first half again every door
every single family dwelling unit is
required to have two off street parking
spaces so if I have a one-bedroom house
and I want to expand it to make it a
three-bedroom house do I have to
generate any additional parking spots I
don't think so because your one-bedroom
house what if had to have had two in the
first class but if I think the same
one-bedroom house and then I expanded it
become a two-bedroom house with an Adu I
know I've got a parking spot even though
the house is the exact same size with
the exact sent over bedrooms yes yes and
no it has to be off street so if your
driveway is long enough and off the
street to accommodate and your garage if
you can accommodate all three cars
between your garage and it's paved
between your garage and a driveway that
isn't long enough to keep it off the
street that qualifies okay now I get
that but I just wanted to buy sort of
that I was more bad than that question
to make a point I feel like adding
adding bedrooms does not require parking
correct but adding a to use does require
parking
you know the other question is as far as
firewall like this is partly getting
into the code but if you have a my
neighbor is really common to have
daylight basements and they were
converted to finished basements if you
have you rent out the bottom floor
wouldn't you have to put in fire
protection on the door itself you are
and arthur latched on to this better
than i did he might remember it better
but you are no longer required to have
the three hour firewall between the two
units if something if it's an
owner-occupied a to you yeah okay
which gets my second question or my
third question and that is if you build
a unit to have an accessory dwelling
unit and that is then sold and someone
purchases that with the accessory
dwelling unit and decides I'm gonna live
here at first and then oh I'm gonna move
and I'm gonna rent both units out part
of the Covenant is that they are
required to let any future owners know
that there is an Adu located there and
then that owner that new owner is
responsible for compliant you know
maintaining compliance with our codes
and standards if that doesn't happen and
if we hear about a code violation then
they are required to remove that ad you
everything said was accurate I just
wanted to point out that's one of the
primary purposes of the recorded
agreement so that when people are buying
a home they see a record agreement and
in that record the green meeting has the
clarification that one of the units must
be owner occupied so that's another way
to help because banks etcetera are
looking at that document so it's a way
to help reinforce that requirement
anybody else I had some questions that
were specifically about the
grandfathering in of units that are
right now not in compliance so let's say
you go you want to make your gonna
comply n't you you don't you don't fit
like for instance the four-foot code for
Fire and Rescue what options do you have
well that is why we would require the
inspection prior to accepting that
covenant they would have to come up to
code right so one of the reasons that we
wanted to have this be an action item is
because it was specifically to efest for
affordable housing to be able to have
people age in place to be you know so
we're talking about a vulnerable
population who are asking to then say if
they're out of compliance to then
register to say and then they don't meet
their inspection and then they're now
out what they've been doing in the
shadows is there anything that we have
for people who are in a situation who
are not able to get compliant how to
help them not at this time and that
would be part of the financing piece
that we would talk about with arch and
all the other regional cities we're
talking about things like taking out a
$500 fee from changing the level and
then you on the next one you have things
talking about how to make it more
attractive like a bay window maybe
windows are far more expensive than the
five hundred dollars they've saved so
well the requirement is a thing of
saying hey how can we like help make
them more attractive in our community
I'm not seeing how we're actually
helping vulnerable people in our
community from this this is to me looks
a lot like compliance of the city better
charting the accessory dwelling units
that we have that we want to then incur
courage than being built but it's not
actually helping the affordable housing
piece that we were trying to target
getting them in here period helps the
affordable housing piece because it's a
good way to get a smaller unit for
someone who can't afford something over
an Atlas or a bigger building that's
been built so just getting more of those
in the city helps to address that in the
first place so that helps by adding
units that don't exist and I have yet to
be built correct I am curious about
units they currently exist situations
that are currently non-compliant with
what we're moving forward with and are
for situations that are for residents
that are low-income how do we help this
merging of situations I'm not seeing
absolution if they if they want to be if
it's if they choose to become a legal
unit okay so just to try to clarify on
one of your points the city is removing
the $500 fee requirement yeah and the
250 is optional that's only like if you
have a complex situation and there's a
lot of staff involved it's like maybe
it's easier to sit down so there's no
you're not compliant no no that's that's
that's an optional provision for any
situation
so there's right now as drafted there is
no explicit code application costs
related to getting the ATU right the way
it's drafted so so for high quality it
is not compliant and I want to make it
compliant but I don't have the funds to
be able to get it up to code what are my
options at this point there isn't an
option for a person and that's why we
added the financing tool and it was the
financing tool was where it can then
come from quote art she came from
similar conversations in other cities
with the point you just made and the
thought was is there what any way to try
to create a financing program that might
help people are more limited basis to be
able to create units we tried to do
something about ten years ago with King
County and they were using federal funds
and that was making it very challenging
because they had all these rules and
and we couldn't quite figure it out I
have learned in the last month in doing
some background research that there is
another region where they're looking and
I don't know if they're same coming soon
where they're looking at trying to get
some private funding where the strings
are more lean you know where there
aren't so many strings and so we're kind
of watching to see what they pop up with
so that's why we added that fourth
bullet is to try to help do it we don't
have an answer right at the moment but
it's being raised for exactly the reason
that you stated so I want to go back to
the solution that we're trying to
address or the problem that we're trying
to address is affordable housing through
creation of ad use and you had a great
chart there that talked about the
barriers and the solutions I want to
throw a few more possible barriers out
there okay just so that we can kind of
discuss them so obviously in some parts
of the city namely the Highlands one of
the barriers is a lot size and things
like that I don't think that's a barrier
that can be addressed but when you're
talking about down on the valley floor
wasn't there a requirement that 50% of
the property had to be impervious
surface yes okay so I wouldn't think
that would be a barrier to adding
additional square footage so unit are we
addressing that at all so first to be
clear we're not talking about the
Highlands they have different codes and
they do allow a to use and for smaller
lot sizes which may come here you know
mu R or something like that not
expecting a whole lot of single-family
and in the urban core but we're some of
the smaller Lots are there always the
basement options and in Old Town they do
them over the garages it can be done you
know if you want it badly enough that
can be done I'm impervious surface we
talked about and so far it came up with
both the parking and the walkway and
with the walkway if you when you put in
your fourth
the four feet will not count towards
your impervious so that's no longer a
problem and it has been in the past so
that won't be a problem anymore
driveways because that hasn't been an
issue so far we didn't see it but as far
as adding on to your property it could
be but then you just need to find
another solution I impervious it's not
something I think that the city is real
willing to give on or extra five hundred
square foot ad you in there that's a
good affordable unit for someone right
and just another question is that's why
we've changed it so we've said it can be
detached above the garage or in the
house to make more options so if you
have hit the impervious you can go above
your garage which doesn't add to your
impervious or part of your house already
that doesn't add so we tried to give
more choices to solve that I hear that
but if we're talking about barriers if
we're talking about we currently have a
low Adu rate and we're trying to
increase that why we would keep a
barrier that would keep somebody from
being able to build in their backyard
I don't know right so I would make like
I'll call it only antidotal but from a
practical point of view I have about 40
slides of 80 use and one or two or
detached the vast majority are gonna be
created in daylight basements carved out
spaces maybe someone's adding the garage
and they put it above a garage they take
an existing garage and put it above the
cost is so much less to do it that way
that the cost of adding a new space and
the one that if you could have seen it
you probably my guess is from looking at
the picture it was an old probably
structure that was there anyway so it's
not yes there are my there may be
situations where people are adding new
space in a separate structure but the
vast majority of times they are
incorporated within a foot print either
carved out or above or small addition to
an existing space and I think that's
driven as much by economics as anything
okay so I make that point then yeah
Keith just brought up two who reminded
me that in Oldtown one of the things
that they have been talking about is
impervious surface and they're talking
about revisiting that because fifty
percent is a little outdated so that's a
good point to bring up when we have that
discussion as well and the last thing I
had on that I think also keep in mind
one of the one of the arguments in favor
of just of having allowing aid use
everywhere is that the idea is having a
tea or not having a to you doesn't
change the bulk of the buildings and the
neighborhood and so the idea is you're
you're having structures that either are
very large single-family homes or a
structure that is a single-family home
and Adu in the same space and so in
terms of impacting the the character and
bulk of the neighborhood you're agnostic
they'd use we're not a to use if it's
within the same structure yeah yeah we
would with it within this within the
same footprint okay okay yeah I was just
trying to think what are the barriers
are there any other barriers that we
could also address so I'll push back on
the parking one and I think Ron's point
was actually illustrative I in in
Seattle the parking is the hot topic
because all the housing activists are
trying to get rid of it and the people
that don't like a to use are trying to
keep it in I think I think we should
drop the parking requirement I don't I
don't think the fact that you are that
you're having an Adu versus just having
an additional bedroom does not mean that
you should have a different parking
requirement I I think we should have
parking requirements because we're not
seattle but i think the fact that you
have an Adu versus not having a to you
does not mean that you need to have a
different number of parking spots i
think particularly because the people
who use a to use are usually people that
are either elderly or people that are
low-income that are renting these are
these are people who oftentimes aren't
driving as often and then having extra
parking spot it just isn't used for for
some of the ada use cases so i i think
it i mean yes a mini
people's driveways are long enough and
it's a non-issue but I think especially
on the smaller Lots you might be able to
carve out existing space you don't know
the parking spot and so I think the
reason you probably haven't heard about
it is because people aren't even trying
so I I would I would strongly encourage
dropping the park of apartment I think
parking should be set based upon the
building type in the building size
whether or not this is a do or not I
don't think should dictate that I'm a
parking spots I think that could be a
good point that if you have somebody who
isn't considering an aid to you because
they don't have the parking for it not
only is it a space issue but it's also a
cost of having to pave an additional
area which would could keep somebody who
is a lower-income from being able to do
that and for the people who have a
larger unit they're already gonna have a
two-car garage with the driveway and so
they would be okay anyway not that
anybody's really gonna use the driveway
they're all going to park on the street
anyway so let me encounter that argument
let's take an example Old Town so you
have a house that has a two-car garage
you used a garage which means you know
two spaces in the front of the house
that they can't use because they need
egress for the garage so what you're
suggesting is that if that unit that
house wants to build an Adu you're okay
with that with them allowing people to
park on the street so you're encouraging
people to park on the street well that's
what the current code would allow
because they would count that driveway
as the legal parking spots yeah that
that household can host because cars
wouldn't something knows it
doesn't mean the so the difference is
you now have two households in one house
right so I think you know I'm not sure I
completely agree with AJ's argument that
somebody who's choosing an Adu doesn't
Drive or is less likely to drive than
anybody else I'm not saying I disagree
with you I'm just saying I'm not sure I
buy it so so the question is so the
reason why there's been a requirement
for one one car to come with it is
concern over reaction from single family
home owners that are worried like Ron is
that this is gonna cause an issue I'm
not you know so we have certain places
in the city where all the on street
parking is being used currently and so
you know to now facilitate ad use in
those locations does if there's no
parking that comes with it does say that
that you could be exacerbating or
increasing a parking demand in a curtain
area so but we have we have lots of
parts of the city that have plenty of
street parking available we have some
parts that are really tight so I'm not
suggesting anything I'm just kind of
throwing that out there for you guys to
think about I think that I think that's
important if we have if there is a
shortage of parking that's a
neighborhood problem that I'm a new
problem so I want to add some context to
this conversation to pick up based on
what Keith was saying what you have on
the books now is something that was
developed harsh light of concern where
what requirement used to be in many
cities is you will add one more parking
space for an ad you and what cities move
towards as sort of that compromise
between are you impacting a neighborhood
or not which is one of the things we've
always been trying to juggle is allowing
units in was this idea of one more than
required by code and that the vast
majority of properties therefore meet
that and therefore it works so that's
what you have on the books now is a
shift from 180 you or an interest
came out and cities were trying to be
very very protectionist and stuff and it
was learned because we did learn some
cities did that to make it prohibitively
difficult to do ad use I would also add
just from my I have a lot of personal
experience with AD use and in around a
university that I used to live at at the
ad use were nanny units held by students
and other young people in those homes
they had many friends who lived in them
and serve the role either as being on
presence on a property in which there
was another person or often a nanny they
served as a nanny that the age level
that you see in these you are adding to
households so you do have two
independent households and so it's not
exactly the same as adding a bedroom at
least I would make that comment because
you do have two independent households
who may each need to travel and if you
don't are in neighborhoods without
transit service they each need to get
around I was a resident of an Adu I know
three or four people who owned them at
my that were my age when I bought a
house and the people who lived in the
homes and ad use for all younger people
too so I'm just putting that out there
and it totally - I also did live in one
in which there was an elderly person so
but they also had a caretaker come and
take care of them and I helped on the
weekends so I mean there is a lot of
dynamics that go that goes on here but
it's it isn't just say I don't think
it's necessarily the same as and so you
do have something on the books that was
an attempt to try to find the middle
ground on balancing those issues and
that what you have on the books now so
Arthur you say the vast majority of
households that would want to put in an
ad you would already be compliant with
their existing parking that's and that's
why I think why Kristin said there was
not an issue is because no one's been
required to add one that you know of
right and all the ones there
I've been a couple who've been a hard
day that's a but not many right we
haven't seen that issue come up in other
cities in most of the cities in East
Kent County have a very similar
provision and it just that hasn't come
up as a major barrier in any of the
conversation at the same time we're
talking about we don't have as many a to
use as we want and so we have to look at
so Mercer Island is our model of having
the rate and they have the same rule
okay they're all large lot
yeah family homes most of the cities
that I like most of the cities that I
looked at acquired a parking space for
an ad you okay I'm just going off of
that's that's a hot topic in Seattle and
they're trying to get the parking
requirement drop right they had the
housing stock in Seattle is different in
Issaquah so would you say that that is
not as important as it is yeah their
parking rules in general are very
different and their transit service is
very different do we have any areas in
the city that do not require or do not
allow parking at night or have like
permit parking if they mean if they do
that's through an HOA I'm not yeah we're
of any I'm just thinking if if an ad you
went into one of those areas whether or
not they would get a parking permit or
whether that would cause any issue well
I live in it home under so hey I'm a
hundred homeowners association that
would not allow that and so yes they
would have to have a permit I live so
right now city code says you cannot park
on the street for more than 24 hours the
problem is obviously an enforcement
issue so if your neighbor Ron doesn't
like your car parking in front of your
in front of his house he might call IPD
to come check your tires right but
that's a pretty low priority for them
they have other things that they're
working on so so there's there is a
parking study that's going on that will
be going on this year and it's there's
two parts of it one is to do a study of
Old Town and the other is to do a study
around
primarily our transit parking locations
that would be potentially lead to then a
parking enforcement which would be the
first parking enforcement we would have
in the city for time limited time
limited parking yeah I'm just bringing
you that up as a potential you know if
we're thinking about this planning long
term ad use and that idea of parking
enforcement could be an issue sorry I
need ahead Kristen this is great I think
these are all great first steps smile
with a motion before you go what you
don't want to make a motion before you
go I mean if we're like done I'll stick
around guys you could be I've been done
since 8:30 yeah good know you've been
making motions and you can't make myself
is it is it okay to pick it up make a
package from all together into one
mushrooms here okay I move two minutes
ago mr. Municipal Code including
definitions levels of review tables of
permitted land uses accessory dwelling
units and fees imposed as amended I
would like to amend that motion
I would like to amend that motion by
adding requirement for off street
parking needs to be part of the
agreement it is there we we park human
is not in it we like talked about it
then we agreed not doing anything about
parking parking currently in the code
one parking space is required
I thought our part of our conversation
was to remove Oh No
Adri was kind of proposing it but we
didn't that's not alternative so sorry
I'm going to remove the emotion okay all
those in favor of the motion say Aye all
right
motion passes thank you now you can go
five nine I can't I can't believe it is
there anything else that you need to
impart to this us to your body good
group tonight well done what's our next
meeting this is the 12 the 12 so we're
not any other 26 I know
cancel cancel I'm actually on the back
of your agenda packet it won't be
transfer of development rights because
the land and Shore no the council sent
is sending back at Alice rezone proposal
to you from this past Monday night so
that I believe is going the 12th to PPC
it the next time right yeah okay so this
the back of the of your packet isn't
completely correct
okay be it's the Spence what is it was
own it's personal nine that this for the
slide happened what do they really want
to do there has been a proposal to
change the zoning from what's been
proposed in the end of development
agreements to single-family and so you
know I think it's multi-family family
well yeah so we're meeting on the 12th
for that and then are we looking at the
26 the 26 that would be transferred
development rights okay so we do have
both of those meetings coming up thank
you okay and you all got the email that
everybody's membership is moved to June
he'll be cut okay just trying to be sure
everyone got that
just take that I'm gonna call the
meeting closed at 9:06
meeting adjourned thank you now you can
talk about anything you want to talk
about
you