good evening and welcome to the February
22nd meeting of the planning policy
commission
tonight we're going to discuss the last
two areas in our central area district
vision plan so before we do that when we
ended up last week I made the comment
that for the first like 10 10 minutes 15
minutes of this meeting we were going to
go over and make sure that there was
nothing else that you had that came out
on the two areas that we discussed last
week and so Keith do you want to start
with West Newport and kind of give us a
little rundown of what you've done
yes okay I'm given a choice okay so I'm
gonna have to like actually remember you
don't have the one that has all the
little squiggly things in it I think I
think she meant to start with page 17
then work backwards
oh no oh I'm sorry
[Music]
so the word version
[Music]
so there's there was a redline version
yeah the word version was redlined good
thing I brought my thumb drive give me
like one second for a little bit longer
than one second so talk amongst
yourselves
okay so again welcome to round table and
I'm gonna welcome the some of the old
task force members and some community
members that are especially interested
in okay helping us okay so we're gonna
look at what we changed
so before you increase the font size on
that for me please yes yeah okay yes I
apparently I can okay so I what I didn't
do what I did and what I didn't do what
I did do is you can see a couple small
edits in the future description I did
not spend time really putting in more
aspirin other asks from the Commission
last week and the reason for that is I
think we had a structural conversation
that we're gonna have a little bit later
about whether it looks like this or
whether there was another suggestion for
how to kind of pull it apart and whether
the Commission wants option one or two
once you guys decide that then I'll go
back in and add some more language and
we can talk about that next week when we
have our weekly PBC meeting so two
things one one cut the first edit was to
talk about how the pedestrian and
bicycle connections are not only helping
out this neighborhood but are also
making connections to the region and
then the second was to just add light
rail
to clarify what we were talking about in
this last sentence as opposed to the
sound transit current bus station on SR
900 now anybody have anything that
stands out that you would like to add
besides the aspirational languages so so
your stuff I'll incorporate your stuff
if that's what you were gonna do you
send in some edits yeah I said some
edits in a few comments should I just
wait till you've cycled that I'll do
that tomorrow so the next version that
we do the 28th will have those and we
will make it we will provide the red
lines so you guys can actually see the
edits we will send it out a different
way thank you yes all right
moving down to yeah something that came
up with the previous projects was where
we're talking about views and view
corridors in this section and I don't
really see this addressed and I don't
know where it will be addressed but the
original taskforce was talking about
views from i-90 and then when Gateway
came along they said well no we're
really talking about views and gateway
from Newport way I don't see in this
where it designates when we're talking
about gateways and you know from what
from is it for my ninety or is it is it
from Newport way are we looking at
putting it in there or in so we have the
sentence views to our forested mountains
are retained and the second sentence of
the future paragraph
so doesn't that cover it well when we
talked about that during the project and
Development Commission meetings they
were saying it was only from Newport way
and not from i-90 because if you drive
along i-90 now because of the way
Gateway is built you basically block the
views of the mountains and the trees so
I think the fact that we're trying to
make the central area more dense is
going to mean that we are going to have
taller buildings and whether we want to
protect the view from people who are on
i-90 who are passing through versus
people who are in town I think that's a
conversation to have but personally I
would prefer to protect the view for
somebody who's in town I think one of
the other side impacts of that is and
one of the things I've heard about is
noise mitigation issues and I think that
that project was designed in such a way
so that those buildings next to i-90
help mitigate the noise for those deeper
in something I have a view quarter
question I threw this in a comment
because of one of the other I elsewhere
there's like City actions it says these
like will be maintained we talked at the
last meeting about how this document
will go into it won't be code but it'll
operate as pseudocode can you can you
talk a little bit about how that would
work if there's a project being built
Newport may not be the best example but
particularly Pickering and Gillman let's
say I have a two-story building and I
have a great view of squawk Mountain or
whatever and then across the street
someone comes in and builds a six story
building because that's we wanted
Pickering my view has been blocked can I
point to this document and say my views
not being maintained
so you could say that so you know part
of it is I think that what's gonna
happen and I don't know if this was
Lindsay's point or not you know what's
gonna happen is as buildings kind of
start to take up the empty spaces or the
less or dense spaces your views are
going to be filtered to some extent I
mean I think they're they're still you
know we've not identified like a view
corridor down Gilman or a view corridor
down Newport or a view corridor down any
particular street is the view the view
corridor that is important when we we I
want to say argued about this but we
debated this extensively I'm looking at
melt with Costco's development agreement
in their site plan because if you go
down if you look down Lake Drive there
is a view to the south that's pretty
nice but what we found is we have a lot
of general language about views and the
importance of views and you know the
reality is and I think Mary brought this
up before related to the Marriott is
that changed the view of that maple
that's maple you know and it changed it
there's no doubt about it changed it now
can you still see the mountains you can
you might have to move to see them so
this is this is this is this one's not
an absolute black and white either you
have user you don't I think it's more of
views are wanting to be maintained you
know but they're gonna be less absolute
in other words you know maybe I can't
stand in the middle of the city and see
squawk tiger and cougar all at the same
time I might have to walk a block but
you keep keen I think what I'm
struggling with and keep in mind that
in that like the example I gave I would
be 100% in favor of the six storey
building should be built you know tough
cookies about the views that's the
direction the neighborhood's going but
when I'm struggling with is I can't see
an example in which this aspirational
sentence will ever actually make
anything happen because if we don't have
any specific few corridors and we don't
have any specific view language it seems
kind of meaningless because you can just
build anything you want because when I
know one's gonna go and build a 30-story
building so I don't like I don't I don't
see how this actually drives any change
and how the community will develop over
the next 20 years and going back to Mel
I thought because thank you when we had
that I thought we amended the standards
the central standards that views were
defined from public areas from public
parks from different public right away
so that there was a narrower maybe
that's the wrong word but there was a
more defined definition of what our
views what we're trying to protect that
their views from public places do you
recall that that that was how we ended
up changing that amending the standards
what would that have been before the
moratorium yeah I'm not sure if we ended
up with that or not but I I think so
because I just as Lindsey had said I had
the same argument that about I think our
views from our citizens locations are
far more important than the i-90 pasture
people and so I I'm not sure that what
language we might have ended up with
that but I don't think we don't think we
ended up trying to protect I 90 views
from I know the i-90 corridor I thought
it came from the Costco discussion that
you'd raised some really good points
that what views are we protecting and
what ones you know not so much yeah and
that also came about with in terms of
the building standards and whether you
had to push a building all the way up to
the sidewalk which created a pointed
building that blocked the views Lake
Drive curbs all right so maybe I can
suggest a couple things one is I think
as a homework
item Trish has now to check and see what
we actually put in either the plan or
the SIDS
to address that and give us a little bit
more clarity the second piece is so
there's a difference for me between this
section which may not seem very
aspirational but it's trying to be maybe
towards aspirational and the next
section where we actually get into the
obligations but I'm not I don't want to
dismiss your point AJ because I think
it's it's a it's a valid point and the
question for y'all I guess is this
we can either need to leave this in here
and and I agree with you it's it's gonna
mean different things to different
people which isn't necessarily a great
piece of language or we can take it out
or we can suggest editing this so that
it's a little bit more it's clear so my
suggestion under that I put in my
comment I sent to you is I think I think
the sentence where it is is fine it's
the one that's nothing is more
problematic is if I can you go up a page
back to the get to the Gillman section
it's right there at the bottom lead down
for me oh it's actually not in this look
I got it
yeah increased you know views views of
squawk tiger cougar remains like we have
it in our metal this is success it I
think it's I think it's in all of them
yeah alright Gilman Gilman yeah so at
the bottom right you've got it as the
second last bullet on the bottom left
second to last bullet and so we've got
it there and our measures of success so
I what I think I recommend is I think
the language we have in this document is
fine and I don't think it needs to
change but I think I recommend that PCC
takes as an action in our upcoming year
of work to have a meeting I think
devoted to few corridors and we sit down
and do something like wait like when we
say like we want to have more open space
or something like that or we want to
have
trails and ultimately you try to create
some sort of document that says okay
what do we actually mean by that I think
for this one I think when we want to
have views we actually need to figure
out what we mean by views and identify
which views are important which ones do
we want to protect how do we want to
protect them what all that means I don't
think we can we neither can nor want to
do that now and I think what's in this
doctrine is perfectly fine but I think
my request is coming out of the
moratorium I think that's something we
should we should try to delve into and I
think could take up take up a whole a
whole meeting at some point in the next
couple months statement that you just
read in the West Newport used to the
forested mountains far retain and and
added to by reason stuff around here how
I don't know how to say that and we add
that into that sentence so that you know
you're not going to keep all the views
there's just no way you're going to keep
and make it exactly the way it is so I'm
happy with a view where I have a nice
Park with lots of trees and lots of you
know incorporated into the view as far
as I'm concerned so can you add that
into into that one sentence
what's the addition
it was basically saying views for
forested mountains are retained and
mirrored by nature closer by you know
something like that that says to buy
implemented I can't think of a word to
add into that right now
I think that's that's fine and I don't
disagree with that but I think the
intent of the views to retain I think
the idea is that we have very specific
views that are important that we want to
protect rather than just generally
wheedle ever we want everyone be able to
see the mountains from everywhere is
that do you guys agree because I think I
think those mean two very different
things is it we want people generally to
be able to see the mountains or is it we
really want to maintain that view of
Renier along the routier trail because I
think those I think those mean two very
different things from a policy
standpoint what do you guys think it
means I think from public spaces it
would always be nice to be able to see
and know that you are in Issaquah and
you're in this valley with these
mountains around so in any public space
you should be able to see all these what
we're talking about forested mountains
if you're in a dense urban setting where
it's just you know a street grid and
there's no real public square there
maybe there should be one nearby right I
don't think it's important necessarily
that we absolutely have to have a view
to a mountain if you're just walking
down any given sidewalk that would be my
opinion okay so so John did we make you
make your own name tag tonight
[Laughter]
Triss can I give you some more homework
[Laughter]
so do you want to add I mean I thought
that we could get through this in about
10 15 minutes in a minute yeah and we're
looking at specific so I don't know how
to put in there so I I will work on
something I think I think my thing is I
didn't I don't want to change this I'm
fine moving forward but I think that
particular the line required those two
circles so so can I ask point of order
so you had a suggestion from one of the
commissioners to set aside a meeting
this year to talk about views did the
Commission feel like that's a something
they want to do or you want to think
about that and maybe to look at our
schedule and see how many other things
have to be discussed and if there's a
way to put it in there sure I think
similar to what we're doing with the
green necklace where it's a term that we
use but we're putting an effort into
making sure that it's well defined I
think I think like a crit maybe the term
critten you where critical views or
something like that or priority views or
I don't know what that is is there
something that's specifically talking
about being able to see Mount Rainier
right and that's one thing and then
another thing is kind of a we want to
make sure we in order in this beautiful
and the outcome and that meaty might be
we don't have any specific views you
want to protect I think that's fine I
just think we need to outside of this
process we need to sit down and talk
there what that means okay if there's a
room on the schedule
absolutely Connie you got a comment I
think it needs to be a city implementing
action but you creative that you create
a product that says what you want what
the views are because we don't have such
a document right now so in your
lamenting actions should be a city
project that's not just a meeting - PPC
but a process where we actually have a
community discussion about what that
means I think the problem with putting
it in one of these city implementing
actions is that these are all
neighborhoods based and it needs to be
in each of the neighborhoods right
because you're gonna be looking at it
neighborhood by neighborhood because if
you want to if you want to protect your
views in each neighborhood you're gonna
have to have a product that allows you
to do that I'm not I'm not sure that we
need to have a whole plan around this I
think we just need to think we need to
talk about it some more than maybe why
the plan so then I'll say later on in
the document you say that buildings
cannot be closer than certain buildings
if certain height can't be closer than
125 feet apart and the comprehensive
plan has language on this to the so
there is some language on this already
that defines it but I still think it
needs to be a citywide discussion not
just a casual discussion at PPC because
the community is really invested in the
views of their mountains and that makes
it too small okay I don't disagree
Mel did you have something you
understand I was going to say that I
think it would be very helpful for the
Development Commission for you to have
that discussion about views and even if
it's your views of views to get some
feeling because you know project does
come in and somebody could say well hey
this building is blocking my view your
code says you can't block my view of the
mountain so you shouldn't build that
there something that we would need
months now when we do this is like this
I think the staff we need to walk us
through like okay if there is a view
quarter like what does that mean how do
you do that how do you define it what
does that prevent from happening yeah
okay so we are eating it's gonna be a
hard discussion because everybody has
different views of what a view is and
what could be maintained
I don't do use on views I views yeah
okay
through this I mean we have I've tried
to to get you into this has become a
very personal person yeah personal quest
for all of you guys to get this done
self so the next the next one was in 1.4
so this was Ron's I think so
new development will blend with existing
areas to create a unified neighborhood
in both look and feel okay and then this
was just a leftover and so let's see
residents of West New Port find
convenient mobility to other parts of
the city in the region that gets back to
AJ's kind of connectivity piece so those
were all the oh no I added and then
there was Cougar Mountain trailhead is
expanded to be a neighborhood and
regional destination that's one of the
measures of success anything else
that pops out when I add one other thing
and this may or may not be a thought
that's worthwhile we we've done a lot of
work so we no longer have these problems
now but we used to have a lot of
flooding issues in various parts of town
and so in my vision of success we just
consider that - which of course we have
regulations that help us with that but
my view of success would be that there
may still be some flooding but if it
happens it occurs in natural areas that
are designed for that to be able to
happen and not creating damage to
buildings and things like that I make it
go into sustainable I don't watch isn't
so will tell folks that when their cars
are underwater actually you know they
they didn't allow pathways for
pedestrians out except for through flood
waters and that so because it wasn't a
requirement so if it floods there's no
way to get in or into or out of the
building that is out of the flood waters
and I I doubt this is the place to
change that but flooding is a concern
safety is a concern and I don't see much
in safety in in this because it just
seems so broad throughout the city but
does that happen there's a whole nother
place a whole another section that talks
about
sustainability and climate resilience
and that kind of thing right so I don't
know if it needs to be put in no it's
just we don't have any rules to make it
so that you don't have to walk through
flood waters when you build so the
reality is that's what happened right
and we're talking about the same areas
in the same places of flooding and it
will happen again because there's no
rule saying you have to do it any
differently
[Music]
okay so this was new so we added kind of
a tie together paragraph on the regional
growth center before we split off into
Pickering and Gillman and you know I
took this paragraph from somewhere and
it had green necklace in it so I
highlighted that because if it turns
into green Network or green spiderweb or
green moss whatever it's turning into
I'll make sure we remember to update
that so this is this is here anybody
okay I pulled up with the file I sent
you so one thing was you have it will
evolve into neighborhoods
I switched that to it will consist of
because do we want it to beat two
neighborhoods are we trying to say it's
like four neighborhoods we wanted to
remove all I was just confused by evolve
I think I think the intent of what I was
trying to say was they're not two
neighborhoods now they're not they're
just they're a bunch of strip malls and
osomon involvement become a neighborhood
yeah okay but if you've got some other
language I'm more than happy to swap I
just wanted to comment that one of the
things I'd like Tibet this was was it
when did you get here
one of the things I liked about this who
was more specific that it talks about
density and growth and becoming I'd like
to see some of that language moved to
our vision instead of talking about
prosperity the tox bomb was specific
tangible things like denser plant growth
bill denied that language should be
moved to our vision and now we talk
about prosperity because that's
intangible as far as who's financially
prospering and how the city is
prospering so just wanna throw that out
there any other changes so so when I
split this apart so who ever thought
that was a good idea it became clear
there was maybe some pieces that were
not included so for example now that we
were specifically talking about
Pickering you know it seems like we
needed to say you know this is the home
of our biggest employer and it's
hopefully always going to be the
neighborhood of our biggest employer and
that's gonna drive a lot of what happens
in Pickering so so we added that
sentence we talked about what did you
mean by tenure rental or ownership so we
cleared other people I don't I thought
that had some sort of wonky definition
is tenure like when I read tenure I
thought of like length of age of the
building okay I will look that up in the
dictionary and see if I've used it
accurately really I understand I think
people won't know what you mean by ten
okay I will I'll seek out maybe a better
word the intent was that we we are
hoping for both rental and ownership
units within this neighborhood now for
those of you who were
part of the conversations about housing
strategies we found out this week the
draft legislation to change the condo
liability laws died because Seattle
thinks it's just fine the way it is
because they're building condos in
Seattle so that's unfortunate and we're
gonna have to swing at it again next
session but at least for now all that
what seemed like a lot of good energy to
potentially get us condominiums again in
the in the near term has petered out
Peterson if everybody contacts their
legislator and tells them that we need
to have this yeah all right it was a
question I guess and maybe a bit off
scope but is there a way of I know
wouldn't do not in zoning but is there a
way to reserve some spots for condos or
owned housing no we can't we can't
mandate either rental or ownership we
can we can we can put regulations on
Heights and densities but not whether
its ownership or rental unless we want
to get sued
so in the paragraph that was in the word
document you emailed which looks very
different than that paragraph doing yeah
you opening with Pickering with its
connectedness Tillich Spanish State Park
in East Lake neighborhood and some of
this stuff like that really yeah and I
sent today yeah no the word document
that you sent a couple days ago that I
what comments on it sent back okay I
believe that I thought it was this
document but if this looks different
than the one I'm looking at now because
I know Kristin sent one last week with
the agenda and then I sent a new one
that you had requested I think yesterday
or today
yeah the week is like that the one that
Kristensen out so I think the one was
the there's no in the future there's no
mention of Lake Sammamish State Park and
its connectedness so I got the
connectedness to East Lake neighborhood
right here okay I'm getting I'm sorry so
confused about my version control
wouldn't expect to be so I got a couple
suggestions things that I don't see in
the document that I think it should be
they're looking at mid-rise I think it
should be mid rise mixed-use housing
because we're when you say mid rise
housing it's like there's no mixed-use
in that formula so so we've got
mixed-use definitely in Gilman you want
in Gilman there's a mandate for it in
Gilman vision for Pickering also so this
one's a little bit so what I would say
is this one's a little bit of a finer
thread in that you guys have language in
there about no net loss of square
footage or jobs right so if I was gonna
take out Big Lots right I would have to
do apartments with commercial or
Hale on the ground floor to replace the
number of jobs or the square footage so
I would do I would do make shoes there
but let's take a different example and
say I'm just gonna take out a big swath
of Lowe's parking lot right if I was
gonna do that then I could just do an
apartment building or a condominium
building where there used to be just a
surface parking lot if I wasn't taking
out any jobs so I don't I don't know I
don't know how much we want to
differentiate Pickering from Gilman
because they're kind of weirdly Siamese
twins but I don't have a problem if the
Commission feels like they'd rather that
say makes u s-- mid-rise house you know
or you know mid-rise housing mostly in a
mixed-use form i mean i if i can do that
if you guys want that in here I'm open
I'll worry about what you call it I just
I think I'm good with it because it's
immediately followed by a commercial and
retail vibrancy yeah so okay I
personally think building a few
mixed-use buildings would be great but I
think if the buildings are not mixed-use
but there's still a lot of housing in
retail that's fine so okay I had a
couple other things here to talk about
and that was
commercial and retail employment and a
Youth Center will provide daytime
vibrancy and evening sports and a future
opportunities for youth to seniors so
you are wanting a Youth Center put in
here
we want to commit that dog not
necessarily a youth center but something
to provide leisure opportunities for
youth to seniors because that's going to
be a lot of people living in one little
space and if they don't have a place to
meet is in this state park across the
street create a daytime vibrancy comma
for youth through seniors comma or just
for all ages or something like that that
was partly why we were gonna try and
make Pickering barn and farm have more
that's right that's a great way but I
think that's still in the isn't that
still in that we have we have some
language about making Pickering more
active actually with that mention of
Pickering I don't see it in that future
other than the giant we're taking all
right I will add something about the far
bit all of the green necklace stuff in
this because we haven't to this point we
had it sort of separated out in the
green parks element right it's almost a
separate overlay so if you start adding
it in here it seems like you have to
then start adding it in elsewhere if you
had something that maybe wouldn't be in
that green necklace like you know
daytime vibrant vibrancy for all ages
that wouldn't necessarily be in the
green necklace that makes sense to me
but not to start identifying components
in the parks personally well I think
another ones we've named out confluence
and Tibbets Valley and things that are
amenities for the people of that area
things that are very specific
and talk about what this area is and
talking about
Pickering barn and the amenity that it
provides to residents Green Park is up
up there in the current right
Pickering Park is a strong feature for
events in summertime public market but
it is underutilized yeah so we should
have an answer to that in the future
section says how are we going to utilize
it better yeah like an active Pickering
Park or something like that
I'm just throw it in there the only
thing I see there is you're
concentrating not putting an onus back
on the developers and I still think that
they need that just like gateway you did
specify that they had a communal area I
think you need to leave room that the
developers are also accountable within
their land to provide that it's where
the green is going to be a broader use
the local ones can use it but it's going
to be more of a public too far out
reaching facility and that is part of
the new Pickering they need to have some
of their own communal spaces we did in
gateway you you mentioned that that so I
think in here if you're going to put
something it should be that liveable or
the you know for all ages should be part
of the development and mix juice area
here and then
whatever you want to call this it's open
so it's Keith I wasn't quite done yet
I'm not yeah I think this is good I
we're focusing a lot on data I think
there should be also evening but the
other thing is leisure evening leisure
activities doesn't the nighttime
activity covers you've got daytime
nighttime need that covers evening I
suppose you could I just wanna make sure
we protect a place or give a place for
people to take their dates it's gonna be
a very boring
they brought one want to be a romantic
neighborhood you know that address the
flooding issues too yeah so if you got
rid of beautiful green necklace that
might need to be a sentence all to
itself so it totally blows that sentence
ounce of water well you're actually
looking for is Pickering Park is
multifaceted were what we're doing is
we're just expanding the park system to
be
to serve to serve all in a larger
variety of ways
I don't it's such a there's with the
State Park and and Pickering farm there
and the walking corridor linkages and
the green necklace it just seems like
there's too much to pull out without
just getting in the weeds and I would be
happier just to have a better
description indicating improvement in
the green necklace and then when you go
down to the actual actions then call
them out I don't I don't want to waste
the words in this calling out each item
individually they might you guys happy
with just a better descriptive sentence
I think it's fine Anson yeah I think it
needs to be called out I think if we
don't then saying that this is Pickering
seems a little empty okay
I don't like all it should be the whole
community or something okay so I've got
something different
pea-green is dominated by cops with
corporate headquarters I think that's
too strong he's like anchored by
[Music]
it may be true
well good but I don't think we wanted to
be true we don't want an eight-story
Cosco building that dominate the
surroundings it can anchor the
neighborhood but I don't I don't I think
I think we won stuff of comparable scale
juice or tankers mr. economic
development man anchor okay another
suggestion here we haven't really
addressed mountains of sound gateway or
mountains of sound corridor and I though
that could be part of the green necklace
discussion which we may want to overlay
this would it be appropriate to that in
here that this may accommodate the
mountains of sound corridor was this not
the right place I don't know that it's
the right place I mean so the question
is you know the green necklace my and
I'm looking at Trish because seesawed
later than I have but they're there map
clearly the mountains to sound corridor
is a prominent feature on the on the
green network plan so isn't it south of
99 not some 90 yeah it is south at least
it is on the pilot ditch yeah none of
that's really been defined yet I think
that's why our discussion with the parks
department is gonna be about the green
necklace is to help define that too but
so I think it's I think it's a part of
the green necklace in some form and some
thinking you've got green decals called
out here I think that covers right I
mean you guys fix the fix that in fact
they're meeting on Monday if any of you
are interested in going they're still
working on it without us but once that
you fit what you work on in here then it
will be covered okay
just on the cost of being the city's
largest employer I agree hopefully they
will always be but I think this squads
opening the idea of having another
comparable oh yeah so I don't think you
should spell
the home with city's largest employer
per se because that limits somebody that
might be bigger as a potential major
major
you can probably just get rid of let's
go far out in front
yeah I'm going to tell you it will take
us decades for somebody to catch them
even even with me doing hard work but I
will about just national headquarters
because that's pretty special that we
are the national headquarters of cost
yeah I think you can just get rid of the
as the home of so you can just have say
Pickering is anchored by Costco's
corporate headquarters I don't I don't
think you need that
really
this is also the other side of this or
900 right the other side the 56th side
yeah yeah yeah it's called that Bullard
and 56th and i-90 create noisy and
difficult barriers to pedestrians and
bicycles yes we did we we didn't figure
it out apparently I think convenient
connectedness and it has that covered
well well the other thing we said on
those in the business area that those
could be more geared towards a state
park and enhance amenities and and
support the state park is what was part
of the task force that's what we saw
that to be so so it's less direct Connie
I mean so obviously you have to cross 56
to get to the park and to get to East
Lake because we're Microsoft and FedEx
are is East Lake I'm talking about
motels Motel six a gas station and all
that is in this I have a question for
everyone is everyone expecting that
other side where Motel 6 the gas station
in the corporate places are to also turn
in to this somehow yes so and they're
Park or their amenities and their
feeling is also going to be this this
housing thing I just don't feel like
that is very house' below
wedged in right by the freeway there so
I I actually in my brain segregated that
into a slightly different more business
style neighborhood with small retail so
yeah we're not gonna create another
neighborhood no I'm not okay the whole
neighborhood in your brain has to be
that homogeneous so I don't think
there's I mean I think Timberlake
apartments which is just down the street
and it's as close to i-90 the properties
that we're talking about is clearly an
occupied housing project it's recently
been built you know what we talked about
is that we're trying to also diminish
the kind of the adverse residential
impacts of the freeway by having you
know some sort of noise attenuation
included you know what that would do
would be to hopefully improve the
likelihood that some housing could be at
least considered for the west side of SR
900 okay so minimally how are those
people gonna get to their retail places
they have to be able to get across fifty
six 900 900 and I don't see getting
across 900 here or the connectivity
between those two neighborhoods
emphasized as a thing that needs to
change or happen maybe take the sentence
that's in Gilman that talks about
handling the nine hundred and bring it
in a shoe thing yeah so maybe just
review what that sentence was because I
think that handled it for the southern
portion I think I think if we go to the
option to contract this will be a lot
easier so this goes to do want to do is
a paragraph or do want to do it as a
bunch of sections I think if we broke
this into a bunch of sections these kind
of connectivity issues would be a lot
easier to justify it so
I don't I don't mind the paragraph at
this I just think that sr9 bit it was
just left out so if you guys are happy
with it having the same tone and I'm
happy with the connectedness any comment
huh
Ron can we move on you know no comments
yes move on okay okay I haven't asked us
is anybody have anything different
everybody's happy with that
oh no but so I don't remember why I
didn't do this as red line so for
example we talked about changing the
non-residential square footage to jobs
or we spend a bunch of time talking
about that
[Applause]
question under four point five of the I
guess it's Angliss development but does
that include solar panel projects and if
not could it could so it's not specific
to solar panels it's it's basically
telling them they have to do something
that is green in their building it could
be solar panels it could be increased
insulation it could be triple pane
glazed window so it's not just let's say
a green roof top it smoothly but it okay
thank you it also doesn't say it has to
be more than one thing or two things
it's a low bar it's a bar though there
was no bar there before right I mean
it's all about encouraged that's good
and now you have to do something
so sometimes it's about moving the
needle a bit
is there another spot that defines green
building elements so we we have a we
have a green building initiative thing
that we just passed so yes okay so is
there is this saying refer to that and
include something from that that meets
those guidelines or could you just say
planted a tree check
and I guess an honor to make sure the
old same thing so what we would want to
make sure is look at the glossary on the
CIP and make sure that it mentions green
building I mean like low-impact
development right for example is low amp
low-impact development stormwater
management is required that is right
considered a green building element and
therefore all projects comply without
going above and beyond that no so we
will cross-reference the green building
initiatives so that they will look at
the right document under city
implementation actions far-left second
bullet would that make more sense to say
SR 56 than 90 since its Pickering not
Gillman instead of SR 956 we in Gillman
know we're in Pickering 56 or 900 and I
yeah you know that Street has like 12
names they're calling it Sammamish
Northwest Sammamish Road now the whole
way they've changed the sign if it no
longer says 56 good evening
I noticed that vandals okay Oh
what does facilitate access to the State
Park mean for as a developer obligation
which number is that 3.5 no I need a
glass so I do this so hey Keith before
you answer that question
yeah I have something that ties directly
into that strengthens up
at the bottom of connectedness you have
third bullet crossing 900 is less of a
barrier for pedestrians and bicycles
doesn't say it does anything I'm
thinking we create a safe and friendly
non motorized crossing of 900 and while
we're that because we have a major
pathway it goes on the westside of 900
but you have to go through a very busy
intersection to get to the other side
and that is not a pedestrian friendly
intersection I think that's I mean that
bullets in the measures of success and
to me that is a measure of success
statement not an action there are
actions that should lead to that that
statement to me reads as a good measure
of success because I don't know I don't
think we want to prescribe that it's
gonna be a great separate of crossing it
could also involve Street narrowing
something like that the 900 thought
intersection you're gonna narrow the
street no but we've we've got that we've
got semilla language in the Ben Gilman
so also I think wouldn't it be more
relevant to say crossing 50 my same
comment before 56 because I think I
think that I think that bullet was from
this was when Pickering and Gilman
together
that Connie mentioned the part across
from 900 that's the motel 6 in them at
least that's what I pictured it to yeah
I see III read that as what's what's
more important is making sure that North
East 56th is permeable for pedestrians
and bicycles I think they're both
important you're ending on which but if
we're talking about this other
neighborhood the motel 6 neighborhood
that is a terrible crossing so so
there's another City action here it's
actually in the Costco development
agreement but it doesn't talk about
prioritizing pets and bikes or not
prioritizing but at least considering
them significantly so I think I think
this I want to keep this down here I
think it's good as a measure of success
but I think the missing piece was the
action on how to get there and that same
bullet could also tie the language in to
Connie's point the connection to State
Park because that state park entrance is
going to be right there as well maybe we
don't know that yet across so he's 6 or
whatever it's called now also needs a
city implementing action of some sort
but that's right now you can't get
across 56 or Sammamish road to get to
the State Park
except for long long blocks so somebody
has got to to make sure you can get
across the street easily on 56 and so
when you say facilitate access to State
Park it's the intent that the developer
is going to be having to create
intersections every 200 feet to get off
across to the State Park
No okay so what is what does that mean
there so right now you have you have
from Pickering I think you have three
ways to get to the state park
you have 12th Avenue which is horrible
you have tenth Avenue which is the
traffic light where the espresso and the
bet place is and it's okay and then you
have the trail that goes underneath the
56 which is stinky and those are it
there's a there's a sewer vent which is
underneath well apparently it's metros
now because we were gonna go after Sam
flat and apparently it's metros now but
that's on Sheldon's homework list
because you have this great trail
crossing and it's stinky so that's so so
the idea is right now you have kind of
three ways to get to the State Park and
hopefully all of those crossings will be
either maintained or improved and so
what you expect from the developer is
connectivity to those crossings right so
if if you've got a project in Pickering
and you know you know people are gonna
want to get and you're over on say the
PCC or Tully side assuming that doesn't
get wiped out by some new traffic
configuration you know having your
project have pedal bike access out to 12
would be how you facilitate that
connection
that's not very pervious that's a long
distance between those intersections for
its
so no that doesn't to me facilitate
access we already have those we are need
to improve the access to the State Park
and all that does this may be mildly
improve it so under I would I
that seems week city implementing
actions to that same consideration does
the city have any responsibilities for
making 56th more porous the bikes and
pits
it's a Connie's point specifically where
the East Lake Sammamish trail crosses 56
I don't know if this is the right
conversation for that because that's a
different neighborhood that's in East
Lake it's a nice Lake Lake Sammamish
Trail as part of Pickering no stops at
the creek Pickering goes to the creek
you're right next conversation yeah
scratch keep this in a box all right so
go ahead on your measures of success
take out the sentence about Mall Street
because it is not in this neighborhood
non unless it moved
North maaske and then I think you have
this bullet in Gillman but not Pickering
you can have it in both under
connectedness or connected have us
measured success the Sound Transit
station connects neighborhood to the
greater region oh very well full and
bikable neighborhood in yes but you
can't get across the street I have to
ask every week it's have you all tried
getting across 56 to get to the State
Park yeah do you yeah but do you think
that that is that is how it should be in
the future with that that placement of
crosswalks second is that good enough
no terrible intersection the whole I'm
talking about the corridor right because
you're going basically from the point
all the way to where Pickering farm ends
I guess I'm making because I'm trying to
figure out if we want a biking walkable
connected to Lake Sammamish State Park
area and Keith just described the
crossings that exist will be the
crossings that they intend to have and
no more is that enough I don't think
this document is prescribing a specific
solution for pedestrian crossings 56
well I was asking about his intent the
intent when he described sorry Keith
when I said developer facilitating
getting to the state park and he
basically said make it nicer to get
across those existing intersections and
you're Simon saying I think we need I
I'll pitch it I don't think that's gonna
make a biking walking connection because
those are far apart and it's of
and even if they make it nicer it's
really hard and wide in the cars go fast
so I think there needs to be more if you
actually want to really connect the
neighborhood to the state part but I am
one voice in the wilderness out here
because Keith doesn't want to so I just
want to know what you all think that's
two voices I think it really depends on
how the State Park redevelops their
entrance and how open they make
themselves to the city and if we work
with in that situation we'll be able to
determine if there are more Processing's
and entrances that we or entrances that
we need to open up to crossings but I
think at this point with the way that it
is developed that's fine and I really
don't think there's a way to add that
into this document I guess I would like
to see more pedestrian friendly
crossings and if you look at design
those actually moved away from key
intersections so that you don't have
turning traffic and that sort of thing
so I really think we can add that we
need specifically pedestrian bike
crossings that will connect with a state
park that would be separate from the
existing ones Oh Keith can you come up
with some suggested language well we've
got something in there on the bullet
that says lessen barriers of SR 956 and
i-90 for pedestrians and bicyclists and
we also say that it needs to be very
walkable and bikable so that means that
it needs to be better than now I don't
again I don't think this is the right
document or venue to start solutioning
how we improve crossings of 56th Street
I think it needs to get better and the
document specifies that I think the
language won't get you your D measure of
success vehicle free crossing
it's not gonna happen so I think I mean
I think for guys basically if you want
if you want I mean I would I would think
of this this way right now
Pickering has its back 256 you know and
that's the way was developed it was
developed as a kind of an internal
project that has its more oriented to
those internal streets and so you know
the the bigger question here from an
urban design standpoint is do you expect
when Pickering redevelops that there are
buildings fronting on 56 because if
there are front doors on 56 you've now
changed what the whole character of that
Street is and I would be more inclined
to agree with Connie that yeah now you
have to talk about if that's the front
of a project you know its front needs to
relate to the park across the street and
how do you do that Lindsay said I think
that really matters what the park does
first and and and that's and and you
know I would disagree with that because
the park is there now so if we if
Pickering develops and I'm going to work
with Connie and Mary on this if
Pickering develops and we have 1,000
people moving in there we're gonna ask
those people to cross the street across
56 56 is already a very very busy and
very dangerous Street to cross I do not
feel safe crossing it so there's dozens
of people that cross every day cuz I see
them because I work there you know
because they're coming from Costco over
to the retail to get lunch or to go to
Tully's and so but it's not a pleasant
experience I don't think anybody in this
room would say crossing 56 is fun or can
or convenient to do but people are doing
it now I think what we're saying is we
want to improve that crowd those
crossings you know so that people have
choices you know right now if you don't
want to battle the cars you take the
trail
underneath the street that goes past
Pickering barn that's you that's a
choice if you're more you know trying to
go directly you might choose 12th Avenue
and that's a choice so so you know the
question about whether there's more
opportunities to cross than at 12 and I
think 11th doesn't have a crosswalk
because of there's like I think they
took the c-curve out but there used to
be C curb out there
separating the HOV Lane so I I mean if
you guys as a group feel like we we need
more crossings of 56 then it should say
that I think there it needs to be more
crossings and they need to be vehicle
free crossings for pedestrians okay so
that's a whole different animal so who's
who's building grade-separated crossings
I don't I don't know that we like
they're saying we don't need to design
it but I think we need to figure out
language that creates porous fifty-sixth
in this language does not create a
porous 56 for pedestrians and bikes to
my right you just take the descendants
we have for us are 900 is less of a
barrier for pedestrians bicyclists say
the same thing about 56 in that what
we're trying to do except for we just
have the conversation with with Keith
about all the language that we had and
he is sort of insisting that that's not
going to change anything except for to
make the existing crossings somewhat
nicer to get across so it doesn't sound
like the language is getting us where we
want to go but I have said the same
thing eight times and you have said the
same thing eight times and so maybe I'll
just try pounding in another place at
another time well Joan and Rob haven't
said anything
um I I think it covers what it has to
cover and I think that the developments
are going to come in and be change a lot
of things and I think the city
at least I'm hoping the city is is will
look at each development and see if
there's a possibility of putting in new
crossing I don't I personally don't care
if there's another crossing I just want
to make sure that the crossings there is
safe and and the only way I think you
can do that is put a bridge over and so
there's you know even if you put a
crossing down further you're still going
to be crossing traffic you're still
going to have that so as long as at
least the ones that are there are made
safe oh I would be fine with it
now I don't think it needs to have extra
crossings in this document I think I
think people depending on where the main
entrance ends up being now I don't know
all the other little entrance points
along the way there but I think people
are from Pickering generally traveling
west
so if within Pickering there's kind of
this way to travel west towards where
the main entrance is and having that
12th crossing at 12th
either one that's the safest I guess
kind of make sense to me to get you
closest to the main entrance now if
you're trying to like kind of funnel
people if people are generally whether
they're traveling north and then west or
west and then north I don't know I guess
some I would be interesting to know how
people you know with kind of the vision
so we're gonna make it a smaller grid
right we want it to be smaller grid
inside those people are gonna travel
somehow through that grid to the park
it's wherever that primary point wants
to be needs to be the safest well we
supposedly have a what every three
hundred feet we have a thing we're
crossing a block I'm not hearing a lot
of consensus here how about a compromise
enhanced crossing it's you know I think
it's it's already it's already there
they're seeing an intent that I don't
think will be realized I think that's
just the point okay for City
implementing actions rather than Lessing
barriers how about enhanced crossings of
so that city implementing actions first
column rather than lesson barriers of
enhanced crossings of
or pedestrians and isolate bicyclists
what's that it's there it says to pay
for
I like that next and that could mean
about it
frosting for tomboy time we want to add
an equestrian so that was good
well I thought that was gonna take all
of ten minutes and it's taken an hour
and a half so let's get on together my
one ask on this one is that you remove
the words small town on the promenade
for mall Street successful small town
promenade in your urban I agree I hadn't
Tim comment that in the future yeah it's
in the future very last yeah
okay moving on you haven't even gotten
to tonight's agenda yet and in this one
under city implementing actions take out
the relocate entrance to the State Park
that's in the other neighborhood didn't
didn't didn't say I got them all or even
maybe half and then can you add the same
Sound Transit station connects neighbor
to greater region under measure success
and the no flooding comment applies here
to do what what I'm going to just write
that down carry as adding Gillman to the
lesson barriers because one of the
hardest streets to get across is Gilman
and frankly so is Newport way to get
across
Newport way yes yeah it's just a it's
just a two-lane road and Gilman Newport
at Gilman oh and mall there's mall I'm
thinking of a Newport way mid-block
crossing it mall everybody desk
- oh yeah maple sorry yeah Mall is easy
maples heart you have mid-block
crossings with people dashing across
between the hotel and the mall Street
building right basically any main road
is too large of a grid currently make it
so that people get a good pedestrian
friendly yeah I don't know how you
address all of that yeah I think you've
already got somewhere in there about
reducing the block sizes and where you
have those opportunities to reduce the
block sizes you have additional crossing
opportunities maybe just adding Gilman
yeah reducing speed would do it
[Music]
they've got a Gillman project right now
let them have that fun there yeah change
that one to enhance crossing lesson out
of there not enhance barriers so Mary
what Mary just said every time you put
in enhanced crossings you're also
removing the other ways to make it
easier to cross and one of those is to
one reduce the road with and two to
reduce the speed limit and all of those
of those make it safer for pedestrians
to get across so those aren't all
enhanced crossings safer crossing sure
safer and more pleasant I don't know but
it's if Gillman was 25 miles an hour you
could actually see where you were going
and you could get across the street and
it would become more of a people would
would move to the retail areas on either
side but it at its current speed limits
it's hard and it's hard to walk along
because it's unpleasant so on City
opening actions the second or the first
bullet providing monitoring and
maintenance of creeks and wetlands I
just think this is something that's in
the larger green necklace things
throughout the document not necessarily
specifically in now it's part of
development why wouldn't you want that
to happen throughout the city throughout
the whole central as well you do and I
think we've got it in every neighborhood
okay and if anything I would like to
enhance that who has responsibility for
maintaining the natural green or the
natural beauty throughout this whole
document I think that's part of this
document as a whole as well so who did
you want to do that I want the city to
do that it's under city implementing
actions so that provides monitoring and
maintenance of creeks and wetlands okay
so does anybody else okay we're gonna go
to East Lake and confluence right save
[Applause]
yes sir this is a conversation about
whether or not we want Gillman to be
part of East Lake or woods yes yes so I
think the Gillman should be part of
confluence but maybe call it the Gillman
retail strip so Gillman village
yeah Gillman village is its
characteristic is different than
confluence but if we add it to East Lake
that it's a very different look and feel
yeah I couldn't remember when you guys
talked about it landed it landed in
confluence all right I'll stick it in
confluence yeah so then there's a few
Corrections to both easily can
confluence okay and I don't necessarily
know that I would agree with confluence
as being a mixed use neighborhood you
don't think it's all structures are
mixed use it just means that is
residential and in the neighborhood if
that's concerned the Gilman retail strip
then yeah that's good I just don't want
to see I don't think it's appropriate to
see mixed-use mid-rise buildings no one
of the implementing actions Ron just to
remind you is that the city was going to
initiate code revisions to ensure this
neighborhood retains its role as a less
dense smaller scale neighborhood so the
whole idea was this
this needs to kind of get down zoned but
we would have to do that as a subsequent
action if assuming the vision got
adopted yeah I'm gonna Lamar I think
your problem with that is the mid rise
component not the mixed-use component
and I think that jives with what's in
the document yeah well you just called
it out here so I just want a
clarification if that's the spirit of
where we're going and I am in agreement
does it say mid right somewhere no okay
smaller mixed juice will be an ideal
transition okay yeah can I go back to
your Eastlake document and the map the
one that actually has a map map of the
area let's say I think I have to go to
here
hang on sorry Gilman sorry center
confluence East Lake map there yeah why
is the southern border on the south side
of i90 it feels like that those are kind
of orphaned properties because to get
them to feel like a part of that
neighborhood with i-90 going through the
middle of them and not being connected
with the light rail station in that
section just they just feel like orphans
so I think part of why we talked about
including this in East Lake and not
confluence is because the character on
the south side of Gilman is a lot
different than what's happening on the
north side so right now I don't disagree
with you Kerry it's a little you know
i-90 definitely feels like a you know
where you should draw the split so
fourth Avenue does help the fact that
fourth Avenue does provide a vehicular
crossing of i-90 and then the King
County trail provides bike and ped
crossing kind of mid block if you will
you know the hope is also that the ijr
will turn this into less of a monster
I don't know if it will but the hope
would be that it will I don't know if
that means that you would then be able
to walk this a little bit better so when
you talk about you've got you've got the
post office
you've got the Medical Center that's
kind of dying back in the back you've
got Madison developments property it's
got a four these sign on it I just think
like when you when you're visualizing
the axis of the neighborhood in the
northern part is very much like Spanish
Parkway but we get to the south it's not
as much the parkway is it is fourth
Avenue and in that sense it kind of
spills across and I need Keith every
time I see one of these maps I'm not
really sure exactly where the boundary
is it just seems like it's drawn right
through a middle of a set of trees is
there a clear way to distinguish exactly
which side of the road this is on so so
what I would say is I'll try to explain
what I understand so there here's the
creek so the creek runs up here splits
Pickering and East Lake and then you
have 56 which then we've included this
area which is where the Microsoft Office
buildings are Siemens and what used to
be space labs and the FedEx and the
courthouse bmc's over here you know
you're doing it by parcel right those
are those are all personal boundaries
correct their parcel boundaries you know
the conversation that happened at land
and Shore which we haven't even started
talking about is kind of this jagged
East edge there was some conversation at
committee about kind of looking at
whether some of these properties like
this one particularly belong in central
Issaquah
or should they not and so to Joan's
question of what parcels or what areas
have we included no now I just wanted
that the boundaries defined a little bit
better so we can add with that so we can
add the names of the streets or do you
need to do is blow it up so that you can
see where it goes think can you zoom in
is that what you okay so are you asking
like why did he choose what the other
side of Gilman Boulevard or if indeed he
did choose the other side of Gilman
Boulevard is the boundary is that like
your question no I just want to know
what streets make the boundary so if I'm
a builder and I want to I have to know
if I'm in the confluence or easy-like
and I need to know what that founder is
I can't tell from that picture
I'll ask cristen to work on clear maps
she'd be happy to write to ish all right
keep the reference in the interchange
you said I I J are so I'm like that it's
called an interchange justification
report so wash dot has funded the
interchange justification report for
Front Street and i-94 eat at such a
funky angle it really doesn't float
traffic very well and so what happens
right now in in the evening or in the PM
peak is you know traffic will back up on
Gilman all the way back to Gilman
village and so part of what we've been
asking wash to do is to look at
redesigning this interchange to not only
improve flow for traffic getting on and
off the freeway but also to improve what
it functions like on the city streets
so that interchange justification report
is under way I vaguely remember which
consultant was chosen to do it let's say
it might be perjury BAM I don't know but
anyway it's also going to go back so the
most important part to me personally is
it's gonna examine the freeway from
front Street all the way back to 12th
and where the potential Crossing will be
in between us are 900 and Front Street
so you know this unknown of where that
crossings going to be is it going to be
a jack-in-the-box is it going to be
somewhere else that will get decided by
this washed out report which will then
help potentially funnel down that
conversation about where the train
station is going to go so super exciting
all that stuff is starting and it starts
with the washed piece so are they
looking to decide whether or not there's
an interchange or just whether you
design any design a lot like they're
gonna justify and say oh we don't need
this no no no definitely know whether or
not they're gonna put millions of
dollars into making a change to it okay
will it be a public comment process for
that oh yeah okay City Council is
already starting to address it
yes Ron question for either boundary why
does it include sixty sixth place in 66
Street
it seems very it seems like a really odd
are these is that down here yeah okay
parcel it looks like one parcel or two
parcels that are in the rest of it is so
so we took we took the service
neighborhood out remember we drove back
in there and said yeah this really
doesn't seem like central Issaquah I'll
just go ahead and be like why not so
this is potentially the location of a
new auto dealership and so as we talked
about what design standards we would
want for that auto dealership whether we
would want the central Issaquah
standards which are very much more urban
and ped oriented as opposed to suburban
we said let's keep it in central
Issaquah because these properties
because they're a long Front Street or
East Lake Sam as it comes out from
underneath the freeway they are I think
visually very prominent and having them
in central Issaquah made made more sense
for us which is why we suggested
including them so yeah it makes the
boundary look a little wonky but I think
if you if you saw those properties
redevelop and we developed into
something that was still suburban and
not had oriented I don't I think we'd be
doing a disservice to the East Lake
neighborhood whereas if you get back
into this area back in here back past
the gravel pit and into you know where
it's more industrial I don't know that
much of the city really interacts with
that neighborhood too much but because
of the amount of traffic that's on East
like Sam this has a very different
I think impact on how you perceive the
city what is this so sorry quickly that
name that parsley you're talking about
possibly being a dealership you have a
bike path going right through the middle
of that video about removing it it's
yeah it goes next to it
it's a Preston yeah you're gonna squeeze
that bike trail right up against the
freeway I don't think modes a bike trail
yes it is the interesting sewers on one
side and fours on the other but what are
the two little triangles that cut into
what would otherwise be a pretty logical
boundary so there's the larger this one
sure no not not that are included in
that are out of line that's the boat
place a plumbing shop and the two auto
body shops the little nose shaped the
fingers and the unico why so why should
why wouldn't that be in so I don't know
if this is so Kristen drew this so I'm
gonna send that frontage to the to East
Lake Sammamish Park I'm gonna guess
that's a parcel boundary John I don't
know I don't have a parcel map up we can
pull a parcel viewer up if that would be
a good thing to do no I guess I'm just
wondering if it did get redeveloped why
wouldn't we want it in in central just
add this is a homework point to check
why those lines were decided that way
and maybe come back to us with a
justification yes so I'm just I've got a
map of just google maps here so I think
230th Avenue should be the boundary and
that's what separates the gravel pit
from
I see so we're we're bumping up to the
creek so I think the creek then should
be the boundary yep let's just get a
justification so that we can come back
to it yeah there's a creek that goes
right through it you just seem like a
little less like parcel cherry-picking
if it was a more like if it was the
creek boundary then come back and tell
us why you did we did and then I think
you can do that the same for that one
neighborhood up toward the north eastern
portion whether or not that should be in
that way right there isn't the church
and the other property isn't that
frontage on to East Lake what I I don't
know what you would gain from those
parcels in this situation anyway so I
would still like an explanation as to
why you would want those well I think if
we're looking at BMC potentially
redeveloping into something that's a
little bit denser than including the
parcels that are nearby that that have
that same ability to develop toward that
more order in the environment I think
that makes sense and I'm perfectly fine
with looking at a justification for some
of those cutouts because those are
mainly steep slope they're just a little
bit at the bottom and then you're backed
right up to your forested hills yeah so
that would be the question that we would
kind of want to bring in is maybe call
out those ones and say the question here
is steep slope the question there is
this is a neighborhood and the reason
this was chosen and those weren't was
because Creek or otherwise yeah we could
do that will bring a big map that we can
unroll big mattress especially since the
city bigger I can we do bigger than that
actually especially since the city
counts since they requested y-yeah yep
we should have an answer for him for
them yeah and the parcel behind Fred
Meijer we had a discussion about that at
length to get my food or exclude from
this map yep parcel we decided to keep
it in because it has a more protections
there so right now there's more
protections in central Issaquah than the
rest of the city that's why we kept it
ok now on that idea in the Sustainable
one of the bullet points there says
something about property owners will
help maintain or build up the black
nugget wall east lake yeah yeah working
with property owner to preserve oh no to
revegetate the he'll sign replace the
black nugget wall yes yeah cities that's
in the city's bucket okay so it's the
ideas work with them not expect them to
pay for that well okay so before we talk
let me read that was County owner than
we annex so we annexed the problem yeah
we annexed it it was not county owned it
was it was it was County jurisdiction it
was privately owned and was an old
quarry site actually
load the wall who owns the wall
unfortunately you do as a taxpayer of
Issaquah yep can we take it down just
kidding oh we could take it down come
down by itself at some point just taking
a lot of other things outside I hope not
because I this is he's like revegetate
provide additional public access to its
a clogged creek but we have the North
Fork in there too right we do now no um
changes yeah
and then I think you need to remove ya
Gilman village we talked about that yeah
I'll do that
where is it Lyndsey distinctive City
implementing actions
there we go convenient access to Lake
Sammamish State Park will be a priority
now I like that one let's put that one
over in Pickering yeah Pickering like it
because there you go vegan usable I'll a
friendly I'm not gonna die
and then the other one I had mentioned
in there indistinctive it says something
about an eclectic image of architecture
2.3 yes what does that mean who knows so
so because this is outside of the core
or the architectural manual offers like
I think six different architectural
styles that could be chosen so I think
right now what you would say about this
area of town is there is not really a
consistent architectural thing there's a
variety of architecture and it is
somewhat eclectic and I think there's
something that's genuine about eclectic
imagery as opposed to everything looking
the same and so I not go with
architectural diversity rather than
necessarily eclectic okay so let's ask
the question that goes to Development
Commission what are they going to do is
that no I mean it's very set now as to
the one of the six that they can choose
the question would be if somebody came
in and said okay we're going to do Lodge
style and there were three other large
style buildings with the city be able to
say no you have to do something
different because everybody else is
large style right next to you and so
with this you could I think you could
say you have to do Grange right the
first diverse palette so the question is
is do we feel that's important or not I
mean you know if you had four lodges in
a row on East Lake Sam that all were
mini-storage
you know sorry I mean start what we're
thinking is not real what he just said
is now gonna happen it's not going to be
blue anymore so there's there's a couple
of when we don't let me forget where are
we when he's like right okay so I have a
couple proposed code edits that are
coming from the administration that
effect land use and it's it's vision
there's a vision piece to it but it's
it's gonna it's gonna it's gonna show
itself as it as a code change so when we
get to a certain spot don't let me
forget to talk about that because
otherwise and you you can think about it
before our last conversation and since
I've already started let's go ahead and
go there so so so one of the concerns
that was expressed is right now the
zoning for Central is very broad I mean
it allows a lot of different uses pretty
much anywhere and so what that does is
it allows the market to decide what
should be built the concern that has
been expressed to me is that that we
don't want mini storage and hotels all
over central Issaquah and so what's
being proposed and we'll talk about it
next time because this is this is new to
me is limiting hotels to Pickering and
limiting mini storage to 221st or East
Lake Sammamish
no 221st
farm with hotels seriously so the
perspective is right now we have a good
number of hotels for our population
today and if we were going to build
another hotel they would likely because
of one thing that's in our city and
that's Costco and if if Costco drives
the need for another hotel then the
hotel should be located within walking
distance of Costco that's the that's the
idea that is out there for us to talk
about more fully next time if those are
the terms and you can get over i-90 you
could walk we could have a hotel
conference center over i-90 and we need
conference centers which we don't have
meeting rooms here okay but we're not
gonna put that in the vision right now
so we're not so that's gonna be a
corollary code amendment that's gonna
come with this that will talk about you
guys will get it for next time I know
things are changing everyday and we'll
talk about it hopefully the rest of the
conversation about the final package
will be shorter and we'll be able to
spend some time talking about that
whether or not we want to do something
different than that okay getting back to
this yes sorry we put in there the
convenient access is a priority do you
want to add something either in the city
implementation or the measure of success
to go with
I mean there's the create trail
activities space no oh no that's sorry
that's safe and non-motorized crossing
right so this first one was intended to
kind of help with that yep I think you
could would it make sense to have
something that says work with the state
to ensure that there is direct access to
the State Park murder easy convenient
access we have we have work with state
parks to improve neighborhood access I'm
sorry that's yep okay let's go so Ron
here's your chance if you want something
for the Lake Sammamish trail crossing of
56th it would be here where would so do
you want it yes all right I will add a
bullet that intersection makes me
paranoid every time I cross it I've
almost been hit three times the problem
is it's that it's more the and I'm I
will probably upset some of our viewing
public it's the mentality of the drivers
on 56th and East Lake Sam it's very auto
oriented people are trying to get to the
plateau as quickly as they can and and
it they're just not looking out for
bikes and peds it's they're just in
their way I mean if you watch people
coming southbound set south east south
east bound on on East Lake Sammamish you
know when they get to the traffic light
at 56 that's really their first I mean
the roundabout doesn't really count
because you can kind of time it so you
can fly around that right so they're
coming down the hill they're flying
around the roundabout they're coming
south on East Lake Sam and most of them
even if they have our bill just kind of
blow through that and May
they're right turn without even stopping
it's just it's like they haven't even
hit the mentality of being in the city
yet and having conflicts of bikes and
heads
it's just not in it's not in their mind
because when you come down that way
there's just really no conflicts that
you have to deal with because there's
not many people walking up and down 43rd
and then if you are on the trail you're
kind of out of sight for most drivers so
sorry for that whole little diet
streetscaping could improve that the
perception that they're coming into an
area with pedestrians and bikes well one
thing we talked about you know so
there's possibility that there will be a
new light if a fire station ever gets
built south of hands Jensen we also
talked about if BMC redevelops that you
need to be able to get people from that
side of Eastlake Sam over to where the
Microsoft and Siemens Building is and so
so that that will evolve over time it's
just not great now it's not great now so
remember you can always change the road
design to get the people to go slower
and potentially have a 25 mile an hour
speed limit which is the most efficient
way to get the largest number of cars
through a place but they're going slower
and it makes it easier to cross the
street so nowhere though we keep saying
pedestrian priority we keep giving the
priority to the cars and saying well you
know the pedestrians they can they can
cross occasionally and I think we're
missing an opportunity to actually
create a situation where the pedestrians
feel safe and comfortable and the cars
know that they are in an area where they
have to slow down right now the central
Issaquah plan is not put together to do
that nor are these visions with W
dressed in code
much like we're going to talk about
hillsides and then AJ had expressed
another thing that's kind of another
visionary idea of how do we handle
people crossings and stuff where that
would be we have a master pedestrian
network right or try a trail network
think I've ever seen that in the CIP we
have a non-motorized plan yes
that's actually do or I don't know if it
calls for anything you know you you know
slow down the car that describes how
each of the road corridors should be
handled and that is the overriding
vision of the road corridor sort of be
irrespective of the development that's
going in around them and so it's it's
those definitions that are that are
reviewing that if you have a non
motorized master plan wouldn't that be
your starting point for it to define
intersections they need to be improved
for non motorized access right but if
the solution is to slow down the traffic
with a different speed limit that's not
in that landscape piece that wouldn't be
in the non motorized and over two years
ago the police actually recommended that
that be dropped to 35 to match Sammamish
and the whole corridor and at that time
city council said no so you know that's
part of what I think we really need to
do with the whole network and part of
this is say what is to make it
pedestrian friendly we need to look at
the whole network and reset the codes of
the speed limits so Joan Keith I'm not
sure if that's something that we could
put on our conversation point but and I
don't even know if that would be a PPC
thing versus City Council but the idea
of talking about how we prioritize
Destry ins and bikes so PPC could make a
recommendation to send that particular
item to the transportation advisory
board because there is a new Trans
rotation advisory board that's getting
formed and I think thought we weren't
getting the transportation person in the
city and so that was going to get pushed
off well the wind blew a different
direction so as far as I know the
transportation planner is coming and
that is moving forward okay well talk so
we've got that covered under measures of
success talking about vehicular
dominated streets have been transformed
do we assume me to add something to the
Sanitation actions that talks about
improving I don't think speed is the
right word though speed is I think is
how you get to it specifically on a Lake
Sammamish Parkway I think we so you've
got the motor success so I think the
city implementation actions need a
bullet that specifically addresses so
you've got pedestrian and complete
pedestrian bike facilities I think
Spanish park right right I think they're
I think that sounds like there needs to
be an additional bullet that says it's
not cars navigate Lake sandwich Parkway
as if they're on a city street and not
an urban Boulevard but you feeling when
I'm reaching for something something
about like the city needs to look at
true damage Parkway into something yeah
yeah there needs to be some sort of I
mean a road diet not like not in
eliminating lanes but like narrowing
lanes changing intersections changing
speed whatever
yeah but I don't see a road deck is
usually Road diet involves eliminating
the lane or two I don't think that's
necessary just narrowing that means like
what's up in like that makes sense key
that if as like as you transition from
the Parkway into the actual urban
neighborhood you know it's lands Genaro
or not that would help you down slow
down something like that
transform LSP if dome or something Road
in an environment you know urban
environment whatever yeah I'll figure
something to suggest for a night that is
a key fed is a city street correct yeah
oh yeah yes so that is so unlike SR 900
where we can we have problems think they
have limitations there and that's if we
this one's got a lot of we've got a lot
of flexibility just eat his arms okay
yeah yeah I think that would be a great
additional action you just have to be
careful that you know we have to let the
city be moving and we can't cut it down
to restrict it enough to write which is
which is why I want to be clear like I'm
not advocating that we're like
eliminating lanes
it's just the traffic slows down as they
go through and navigate either getting
died 9 you're getting Sammamish faster
doesn't mean more cars move through
McKibben point in time slower actually
platoons the cars most efficiently
it's just when there isn't a lot of cars
that are gonna have to go slower to
that's all so Keith to your point you I
want to make sure we don't miss a gap
you were saying that we might want to
recommend something could you explain
more about that so so if if you feel
like there's a missing piece here that's
transportation related I think what we
can do so we're gonna come up with our
visions but there can be a whole set of
other things that you might want to
recommend to the City Council
and like I said I think there is a new
transportation advisory board being put
together and you know they will they
will have some things on their work
plate already
but getting recommendations going from
PPC to Council for maybe redirection to
the TA be that absolutely makes sense so
so I think I think you guys shouldn't
lose those ideas as you talk through
these things and if it makes sense like
for example you know with the green
necklace you know it didn't make sense
for you guys to solve that puzzle
because that's really the parks board
needed to you know carry that that
burden but you guys got to work with
them and maybe there's an opportunity at
some point for this group to have a
joint meeting with the TA B once it's
put together and to talk about that
issue to say hey look you know as we
were going through the visions this
became an issue that we felt like it
wanted a public conversation and so you
guys could then see that for them too
because that's really the policy behind
how we treat pedestrians in the city
right there's I mean there's a bigger
policy piece and I don't know if you
want to touch the third rail or not but
the whole issue of regional so the
streets right now that push regional
traffic so Eastlake Sam is definitely
one right as his 56 as his Newport and
Front Street and so you know the
question is and I think we've heard it
in various places is how do we turn
those streets right now that function
more for regional traffic movement back
towards more local city function not to
say they're not going to still move
regional traffic but how do we
reprioritize what the purpose of those
are so so that's that's a bigger
conversation but these two things 56th
and East like Sam potentially fall into
that because you know the reason they
are what they are is because they're
moving traffic to Sammamish
so can I ask that we just consider a
conversation about that dependent
obviously on whether the transportation
advisory board comes on board and if we
have time in our schedule but just
something so that we at least look at
whether we're gonna talk about it I
think it's a topic that we all want are
really concerned about and if we had any
opportunity to discuss it further
outside of today I noticed Trish is not
taking notes scheduled and there were
you know one or two weeks where we
actually didn't meet in the whole year
just in case you had nothing else to put
on there but again it would be outside
today's discussion I did circle the last
liveable thing from the measures of
success I wasn't sure how you were going
to make managed regional traffic gun on
Sammamish Lake Sammamish Parkway I
didn't know how you were going to do
that yeah I think that goes to the
implementation at Osakis
yeah so do we need to actually make a
motion for that or were generally giving
you a recommendation okay
we don't have to make a recommendation
to anybody except to Trish to put on the
schedule down the homework Mike turned
it off Oh married wayfinding for all of
these things everybody's always lost in
this in town and as things change
they're gonna be they're gonna continue
to be lost
is there an overarching wayfinding
creature not just for trails but for
streets too because people are always
there they they can't tell which side of
the freeway they're on they all the
shopping centers look the same so we've
been
so that I don't I don't know that that
particular topic is specific to central
Issaquah I mean I think that general
wayfinding conversation wants to be
citywide only if you want the developer
to feed into your wayfinding scheme if I
mean so the way that we did it in the
highlands is if you wanted a kiosk with
sign on it you know it had to have a
public amenity component to like a trail
sign or something like that so we did
something in the highlands and you can
see some wayfinding kiosks up there but
we're a little bit we haven't moved that
conversation along on the valley floor
yet
and part of it is just staffing
resources we haven't had the bandwidth
to work on it so that'll be something
that's gonna sort of overlay onto it
maybe like agreement necklace so we have
to update the sign code anyway because
of yes case in Arizona so so we can
incorporate it into our sign code update
there's something related to branding as
well a brandy yeah the branding and the
wayfinding our tenets are connected and
both of those are a little bit we're
stuck because we're we're missing a
resource in communications back to here
yes welcome back is there anything else
on this I had a couple questions on if
you can scroll up key to see the
developer obligations under distinctive
yep vertical mixed you - yeah - - does
that mean that each project would have
to be mixed use either horizontal or
vertical
[Music]
so what that says to me is that we have
both it's not it's not one or the other
it's you have both vertical and
horizontal mixed use I'm thinking for a
developer obligation if a developer came
in and said I'm going to build this
apartment building right right next to
the retail center well what if it was
between two other apartment buildings
would we say you can't do that you have
to include some excuse in it I don't
think we would Oh Oh crud so my third
surprise always more surprises
so in Pickering and Gilman we have the
no loss of square footage or jobs the
other recommendation that that goes in
East Lake - right so so to Mel's
question now now that we know that what
I would say is if you were taking out
this goes back to the example I gave in
Pickering if you're taking out taking
out residential or if you're taking out
just surface parking lot you could build
apartments or condominiums without it
being vertically mixed-use if you're
taking out retail or commercial space
you have to replace at least as much
jobs or square footage to make it no net
loss so if we have the no net loss do we
still need to point - probably not
I'll put a question mark for now and
think about it longer than just three
seconds
I don't know you you would have to know
that lots of jobs as we haven't known
that loss is 1.5 then you can remove 2.2
and I get see 2.2 is being a measure of
success and with different wording oh
that's what we'd like to see like that
but not the developer obligation and we
don't really have a very good definition
of horizontal mixed-use in in our world
so is this whole thing going to have a
new ad definitions added anywhere or
glossary yeah that are words that have
not yet been defined I'm trying to not
use those words okay makes juice it's
not defined anywhere is anything
functional so let's let's see if it
stays because right now there's a
question mark do we still need this like
in phrased again we need a definition
for horizontal makes juice anyway
another question if you don't mind that
the Gilman village we've got developer
obligations to the implementing action
and a measure of success we say it's
it's connection small town charm should
be retained work with the property line
to preserve the character and then
measure success is that gilman village
is preserved as a city treasure walks
you right through it doesn't it exactly
I guess the question is I mean it's it's
starting to me it's I'm not the owner of
a feeling village but it sounds to me
like somebody's spot zoning my property
to say you can't do anything else on
that property and I don't know if that's
because what does not say that I think
you could do anything with it you just
have to preserve character right so so
you're trying to you're trying to
preserve so ideally so there's this as a
this is maybe this is a continuum of
the far right hand side is yes somebody
this it may be the city buys up the
development rights and it gets preserved
as is period right that's I think that's
ultimate success somewhere in the middle
is maybe part of it gets redeveloped and
you save some of it as kind of a
commercial component or retail component
but then there's maybe some apartments
or something gets built in amongst that
okay you still got a connection to the
small town those old structures at least
some of them maybe get preserved maybe
there's a way to do that the far
left-hand side is they do something
that's very disney like and the whole
thing gets plated and there's some
remnant of incorporated into
redevelopment so this is a small town
after all so so this this so i don't
know
so mel this one's a hard one i think i
think if we and maybe as the city goes
through i'm gonna plant a seed and we'll
see if any of you try and move it
forward maybe as the city goes through
its strategic planning process and
identifies the things that are very
important to it maybe this gets put on
the table for consideration in terms of
you know what you guys should really
start thinking about buying the
development right i mean if if we came
to aaron and said we'll buy the
development rights off this property if
you leave it the way it is
he'd say sure here's the price tag for
that i mean there's a you know he's not
gonna say no so but it's but that
conversation will never happen if this
isn't in this plan it's just it just
won't so I don't know what your point
was but it's like I guess part of
there's a question if somebody comes in
with a project yes
we want to we want to put an apartment
project there you know and they come to
the Development Commission and it said
you know reading this says should be
retained well sure it's not a shalt
write you know could be tricky decisions
and yeah so this the way I would read
this one is there would be hopefully a
conversation if they came in with the
complete bulldoze and redo you know the
question is okay there's some things
about Gilman Village that people really
like if there's some small-scale retail
opportunities there's some kind of
quaint walking opportunities you know
what could you do with your project if
you're not going to save any of it what
could you do to bring some of those
qualities into your project so I mean
it's so that would be how I would
approach that one it's not an absolute
right if it wasn't absolute we should
turn show it into shower okay imagine
the school district wanting to build a
school Gilman Village flat developable
property with affordable housing on top
[Music]
okay all right punchy crowd what else I
think we're done
one was unlivable and the no loss of
jobs and this is that the replaceable
retail spaces it seems to me there was a
Gilman gallery that used to exist where
the Atlas is that moved to buy the value
village is no longer there for I think a
loss of lease for varying reasons I
think we lost something that the
character charm when that left I don't
know if we're gaining necessarily
something a character by having a lazy
boy store per se but I think this is
more than just a jobs issue it's a
character issue part of that small town
feeling and part of that I'd like to
turn capture that as more than just to
no loss of jobs that's talked about a
character of a retail space I think
that's a great goal Steve I think the
problem is so the city doesn't get to
choose who occupies the retail spaces
right so what happens is so we could we
could put a ton of design guidelines in
that say you know spaces have to be a
certain size to try and exclude national
chains I agree and I'm not trying to
solution it here but I'm saying I think
that there's a conversation that goes
along with that being part of the
discussion I agree at 8:45 I don't know
that necessarily at tonight but I'd like
to capture the idea I'll write it was a
sacred maybe not the other thing I want
to mention was under city and inactions
the last bullet offered technical
assistance for green buildings it seems
like that should be something that's
carried throughout the document that
should be in every neighborhood well I
don't know that it's in currently okay
if it's not I will check
okay Coughlin's 15 minutes and we have
to talk about the structure the options
okay okay confluence loving it loving it
all right shorty the Gilman village
stuff on the previous one needs to move
over to migrate at all hey I have my
pitch I don't think it's still I don't
think it should be in the central this
co-op plan I think all these things are
very close to the mur and it should just
go back to them where where it was
before does that mean she would take it
so like nerve so like week
so that's mixed-use residential zoning
so so she would take it out of central
and just have it be a floater which we
have the mixed-use residential which is
basically saying this but okay pitch it
one way versus the other quick short
well like is there a specific reason
that we want to keep it in to protect
something
[Applause]
so sorry so you have to share I will
pass my cup of ice around so what I
would say is I don't know the answer
that's a that's an interesting question
I don't know what the advantages are in
or out I think right now we at least
have a vision for that neighborhood
since it's in right there's an
opportunity to scribe what's there what
we want what we expect as soon as it
goes out nothing it is whatever it is
right and so I guess because I'm a
planner I would say I'd rather have it
here where we've described it it it has
architectural standards that apply if
it's in if it's out it doesn't you could
build a super-modern something something
I use that before so I don't know I I I
mean I know what it is when it's in I
don't I feel like I have less control if
it's out I don't know if unless there's
a great reason to take it out I don't
and I when can I make a suggestion about
this what about the possibility of sort
of bifurcating that at juniper so I
think there could be and I don't know if
it's in around but juniper for this one
right I think there's a very distinct
difference and development potential and
what could and should happen north of
juniper
I've already see it happened we've got
the admin building we've got the Dale
apartments we've got the at work that
would be redeveloped all that stuff
there seems to me that it would be and
should be redeveloped at the central
newzik wok einde of scale and then south
of Juniper I can see where you maybe
take that portion out and
that into outside or read that zoning
differently there I like the idea of
treating the zoning different is if you
take it out then we lose control to his
point right we would lose control of
what could be there or instance the lot
where the auto shop sitting on across so
if we so that would be in because that's
on the you know what's that south of
there that's one of our loving stories
and then the the field across next to
the storage unit is actually a reservoir
right right so that's not buildable
either aren't they gonna with the school
then the school lot getting fully
redeveloped right to be kind of an urban
type school so we'd want to be able to
control what happen I guess we would
miss a gap there to connect central to
that kind of urban school lot if we did
it's a good point should we include the
school in that they already have their
own urban standards right well once we
talk about a to its compact standards a
Newport anyway not yet
well yeah I think it's important to keep
the stuff south of Juniper mainly
because of the east and west boundaries
because we want to make sure those Van
Nuys
so we'll get to have a whole
conversation about the zoning standards
for this neighborhood and and I don't
even know what that is yet you know
we're gonna have to look at what's
allowed there now what was allowed there
prior to including it in central
Issaquah and see if it's this if it's
this or if it's something completely
different so so that's something we
would do is that later this year is that
this year thing if it comes out of
central you know as an implementing
measure so remember we talked about
initiate a code revision whether we do
that this year I believed we were gonna
try okay how many free weeks did you
have weekend's okay and and I want to
maybe unpack a conversation that might
have been before the meeting started
tonight so this is the only neighborhood
that talks about schools and access to
schools and I guess the question for
y'all is does that language about
walking to schools and opportunities to
walk to schools should that need to
populate all the neighborhoods or leave
it just in this one or something in
between I think it's more than school
walking routes it's also school
locations but I'm not sure how we
handled that both as a city and as a
vision to add to that I don't know where
this was land but
all care resources if in Pickering and
Gilman we have X number of people living
in a very confined area could be
convenient to have child varying
services within the community respond to
that you think that would be private or
you think that would be like a garden
would we with schools daycare would be
private I mean right now I you guys got
a transit-oriented development
presentation right so they're planning a
Bright Horizons in that project so that
will be kind of what will happen more
frequently is with those multi-story
residential projects there probably will
be daycare that comes with just because
there's a need but I think it will be
market-based the most part well I'd like
to see that schools are at at any place
where there are considerable more more
density as housing is we ought to put
urban schools there so there's
walkability because we already know that
they're maxed out and land and so if we
don't bring it to the table sooner I
don't know what's going to happen and I
would like to see something in the
Gilman that we put schools in there and
walkability and Issaquah does have
preschool in their school systems now so
you know just say that that's nothing
you know gonna be private I don't think
it's also accurate it can be also public
yeah so would that be in city
implementing actions to work with the
sequester all district to plan locations
yeah it would not be obviously developer
obligation yeah I don't think we would
have it I think you could include the
walking routes on each of the Arians
but in developer obligations but I do
think city implementing actions for each
of the neighborhoods
well at least Pickering and Gillman
how many of the others do you think we
need to think about schools maybe youth
like you need a minimum the elementary
schools and that's where the Midwest
works with the developers and and builds
the development of round the elementary
schools and so I think some sort of you
know partnership with developers could
be put in here I think we need to hold
the school district around to that idea
before putting it in a vision the idea
of working with developers to kind of
cite their schools think it would help
pull it pull them alright so I will I'll
work on some school language that
permeates more than just confluence just
coming to having the the elementary
schools close to housing could eliminate
potentially cars Geographic can you just
add it in the daily retail and service
needs under sustainability for consoles
for all of them as you do that for all
don't you and schools be in there that's
the bicycle and walking in bicycle
options so it's sort of going at it in
the back door it could also live in may
be livable I think maybe better
Mel like livable as I recall yeah I
would put it in livable city
implementing let's receive it your city
put it in
okay Jonah moving us along so one of the
suggestions from last meeting was as we
talked about the today in future section
of do I need to increase the size for
that okay control mouse scroll hold ctrl
and scroll your mouse in really all
right
so we talked about last time a way to
maybe better connect the future
description to what we're actually doing
in the objectives piece and so Lindsay
provided a suggestion for how that might
work for just one neighborhood so rather
than do this for all of them this is
more I think we're using as a talking
conversation point to say okay we've got
really two options here bless you
and so which do you like better and you
know if you guys choose option two I
think AJ voted for option two before he
left you know and maybe Lindsay wants to
talk about it a little bit I was just
gonna say I didn't rewrite any of that
it's just the idea that it's kind of
broken down so that somebody can very
clearly say here's what the scale of
this neighborhood is going to be here's
how we view it treating residential
areas here's how the parks natural
environment are handled or focused on
just in a clearer way or the reader of
the document I just pulled basically the
stuff from the future I think I might
have added a sentence or something but
generally where there wasn't anything in
the future one but generally it's the
idea that it's just broken out and
making sure that we're addressing each
of those areas distinctly because those
were the areas when I went and looked at
Kirkland and Bellevue and Redmon's
vision neighborhood visions they all had
either specific labeled paragraphs or
the paragraphs were obviously subject
oriented toward each of those areas okay
did you consensus did you look at how
trying to fit those into the four
categories that we already have it
broken down into or does it not you know
I chose those categories because that
was what was distinct on all of them
including going back to the task force
those were consistently mentioned and so
I didn't put it into those four
primarily because that character and
scale idea I think it's really important
to call out because really if we're
talking about a vision for a
neighborhood that's one of those really
important things to say this
neighborhood is this and that doesn't
necessarily match what those are yeah
I'm fine with that I don't care what the
labels are those were just kind of my
descriptors to give you guys an idea
they can be pretty if I'd I like this
because it makes sure that in each
neighborhood we hit on all of those
things and don't leave out one of those
important categories just because it's
in paragraph form we don't skimp on it
right I like the flow
when they I think it makes a lot more
sense the second I think it could be
enhanced a little bit by indenting the
paragraph sure but actually I'd like the
way for it I think it draws your
attention to specifically what's
important to Lindsey's point yeah so I
like it okay so the four of us and vote
on this yep okay now that can I say why
I don't like it now that you voted okay
well then I won't know you can't this
almost think this exact thing was there
before and what happens is it parses it
down into categories and then you're
reap arcing your categories again so
when you're reading it you've you you
are now adjusting to a new schematic in
your brain and then you go past this and
there is yet another series of
information that is yeven does not echo
this and so in this document then you
would have three different structures
that you are trying to figure out how
you were supposed to use them as tools
so if you wanted to try to break I think
you I think that get broken down in the
structure that was already created if
you didn't like the categories that were
created and you had wanted to use these
then you could have done that but that
isn't how it went so I would just go
with the simplicity of a paragraph which
most people will may or may not read and
then they will get into the nitty-gritty
of the structure because too many
structures just creates confusion I mean
and that's why I would just go with a
paragraph that then flows into the
structure and then we have to deal with
the next structure which would be having
talked about so too many structures just
makes it confusing okay so what if we
then change this up to you so it's I
think if these are your important
categories I think this is a good tool
to make sure that you get your important
categories in your list but then use as
a tool and then drop it off after you've
used it as a tool I think it's good for
the readers to have call-outs because
some people are going to be more
interested in certain areas so I would
want to see it as labeling for the
reader what you're categorizing first
and then you're categorizing in an
entire different way later yes so I mean
are you that's not helpful
yeah no I hear you and I think that's
very important so I mean you could take
the character scale idea and just use
that without a label as kind of an
introduction and then potentially use
the four categories I think the first
two could be considered liveable yeah
and then mobility and connectivity is
obviously connected parts and natural
environment is obviously sustainable
distinctive could be that kind of idea
of character and scale so we could
bundle them into those four if we wanted
to right and that would at least make
sense it would be consistent is it
necessary I don't know for those who
like to read paragraphs it's it's not
helpful because some people actually
like to read paragraphs it's all it's
all there's like three different several
different ways to read the same
information the way it is and I don't
really I don't care as long as they're
consistent if you have the headers as
long as they don't this looks like their
categories in some way yeah
does that make sense I I think I mean I
totally agree that there's places where
paragraphs are great and some people
read that I think our paragraphs as they
stand Ile fragmented and less of like a
continuous thought right so I think
breaking it down into categories from
what it is now makes more sense and
makes it more readable and usable and I
think if they did lead into kind of
breaking it down into our further
structure right then that I think that
would be a little more cohesive right so
the same concept but just with headers
of the categories that you can be
creative yes yes if there's a way yeah
you get that I did that's not what you
voted on voting thing around the table
is because you get more ideas I would I
have this thing about no I don't like
the paragraph because it it to me it
just all bands together but I like the
fact that there is one sentence up there
and then you go into the more things
that you do the one sentence could be
just the West Newport will be this and
then you have your other things under it
it's because I think it can't start with
that it has to have a beginning
okay so we've you changed everything
like a vision sentence basically yeah
okay yeah
which is the first sentence I like the
discussion we just had evolved alright
we will work on that for next time
and so so you guys are gonna get Trish
already sent something or it's going out
tomorrow yeah so you're gonna get a new
version on Monday because I find need
the weekend to work on it so you'll get
it Monday
so disregard what you got from Trish
earlier what you get on Monday is what
we're going to talk about on the 28th
which is Wednesday so it'll be red line
so you guys will be able to see what's
been changed and hopefully I've captured
everything that we talked about tonight
and if not we'll talk about it on
Wednesday so since this is going to be a
package package will go to Landon Shore
yes following week or so we get you know
the beginning the vision statement yes
put together
yes whole package yes and just as a
addendum to what you said that the new
story is in this one
this new debt this new package that I
passed out today okay so that the other
pieces are old but that's the new
package that I found in a crossed out
version from you and Kristin so so
everything will be there Monday except
for the green Network I'm gonna leave
that as a TBD because we won't have
finished that until the 8th when we meet
with Parks Board for the second time
right so we'll just leave that as a to
be plugged in so you're gonna hand out
the news story on Monday as well yeah
okay so it's gonna be all together
they're gonna get the news story and
neighborhoods one through five okay it
will be basically starting what
Landon Shore will get except yours will
be redlined since it's part of our
sation ultimately they'll get a clean
copy all those other things that we
talked about for the year the size
height and all those things all those
different housing that we looked at is
that part of the vision I mean the code
amendments for the moratorium like
structured parking vertical mixed juice
yeah those are already adapted and in
place I know they're adopted they're not
in the so those things like the
architectural manual and and all that
stuff is not part of the vision or the
plan they're code that those all that
stuff the requirement for structured
parking all that got put into the SIDS
standards yeah okay okay be clear
there's no homework this weekend we have
to wait to get the weekend off Ron wait
a break so you guys will get the new
package and the new proposed code
amendments relating to hotels and mini
storage on Monday that's on Monday -
yeah Ed's done I just okay it's gonna
talk to you about it never see you talk
about the first two communities in ten
minutes and just go through and make
sure that the edits were all done and it
took an hour and a half so if you put in
all those other things next Wednesday
it'd be a long meeting you might need
some tea cookies or something you know
cookies or brownies or what do you want
I'm in a water fountain water fountain
let's call the bathroom it's coming soon
I'm just saying don't make be a long
meeting because it will be the last time
we look at hopefully the last time we
look at vision so be prepared it's Trish
writing down trees yes I am I don't know
about the water fountain I can't help
you there but see if I can bring sweetly
helps and isn't cider okay so you see
always used to have treats a young girl
and by next Wednesday at 6:30 hear hear
okay Yahoo so we will be here so
anything for the good of the order yes
no no thank you all with that I close
the meeting at 9:10
you