good evening and welcome to the November
30th meeting the Planning Policy
Commission this is a continuation of our
November 9th meeting discussing the
central area planned for Issaquah so we
have with us tonight three members of
the Commission the task force that
created the onion and we also have asked
to join us three members of the
community two members of the community
so we have a full house tonight so as
always we have to start the meeting with
the approval of the minutes and we have
two minutes to approve the one from
November the 9th so I have a motion to
approve the minutes from November the
9th I move to approve the minutes from
November 9th a second second
all those discussion any changes all
those in favor say aye
aye and we also had a little different
meeting on November 16th where some of
members went out to see the community so
there's an informed discussion for the
planning for the central area so we have
a minutes that have to be approved from
a that night and I know some of you were
there so even you all have the
opportunity to vote the people who were
there besides the regular members so I
need a motion to approve the minutes of
November 16th where are those medicines
page 13 there the minutes of the of the
queue oh I see this isn't okay all right
now most ubers second time all those in
favor no discussion any but everybody in
favor say aye
aye motion carries so with that I'm
going to turn over the meeting to our
illustrious planning department head ed
guy director Keith Niven so please tell
us some of the changes that you've made
since our last meeting thank you I hope
everybody had a good Thanksgiving
welcome back to work tonight's a
heavy-lift we're gonna go through the so
we met y'all had band tours and y'all
made it safely out through your van tour
so that was glad about that and we also
had kind of a primer on this or a first
step where we talked about the existing
central plan visions and we had some
conversations about ten districts ten
neighborhoods you know does that make
sense we talked about train stations and
other things and so we took those
comments as well as some of the comments
that we heard during the tours and we
gave you guys
version 2.0 or 7.0 or 20-point Oh
whatever version it happens to be and so
tonight what I'd like to do is kind of
take you guys through a series of
questions rather than just opening it up
and saying did you love it which I think
would land us in 20 different
conversations pointing 20 different
directions I thought we would have a
little bit more structured conversation
which is one of the reasons why I asked
for the opportunity and I appreciate the
chair giving me the the grace to allow
the public to be up here because I think
there'll be it would be best to have
public comment at each topic rather than
waiting til the end when hopefully we've
all decided what we want to do so
here we go hang on to your hats so I
want to just just to start with a
reminder you know so central Issaquah
plan is a part of the comprehensive plan
and it is a sub area plan for basically
a big section of the valley floor and
that plan is comprised of guiding
principals and district visions and
policies and then ultimately it it lands
in development and design standards and
really what we're talking about tonight
is just kind of this one this one planet
that's circling out here on the right
and and really we have to keep in mind
or I'd like for us to keep in mind that
these other pieces are still part of the
plan they are still there this that
we're doing this evening is not a
standalone document and it's not really
intended to be a standalone document
when we're done with it the intent that
I have is the section on districts in
the in the central de quoi plan now we
rip those pages out we put these new
ones in and the plan is still the plan I
mean I think generally speaking the the
vision for the plan itself is is we're
kind of we all believe in that we all
are expecting that to be the future of
central Issaquah I think the ask was do
we need to clarify the vision so that we
have more predictability that we're
actually going to get there all right
and so why I listed these things out
here on the left architecture urban
design manual vertical mix you
structured parking inclusionary
requirements all of those things came
through you guys they are all what I
would consider evolutions in the
document itself but they're over here in
development and design standards so
these are this is the nuts and bolts the
regulations of what developers have to
do there's no ifs ands or buts they tend
to be black and white they should be
black and white
if they aren't black and white then we
have problems this over here this is a
little bit more it's it's a little bit
more directional in that this is what we
want you to do but there might be a
couple different ways to get there and
so with that here's my first question so
the document that you got that was part
of the packet the first part of this
document is really intended to kind of
tell a story telling a story of why we
were updating the visions and I think my
first question for you and I think maybe
it makes sense for the Commission and
task force to have some conversation and
then ask for the public to see if they
have any comments and then let you guys
kind of finish off your thoughts on this
so this is I don't want to spend a ton
of time on the story because I don't
know that the story is really where we
should be spending most of our time I
think it should be clear in as a
stepping stone to the actual
neighborhood descriptions but it was
really more to document why we are doing
what we're doing so I guess looking for
comments thoughts from the Commission
first and the taskforce on kind of the
story so I think in general it works I
think the piece that's missing for me I
went back and watched the Landon Shore
meeting when you presented it to Council
I think one of the things that's missing
then is
ey for the community in order to get the
community buy-in and so I think talking
about why why we're looking at density
and describing these neighborhoods as a
way to preserve the hillsides etc etc I
think that would be a good addition
tagging on to that I had the same
thought and I meant it a little
different I we have a central Issaquah
district vision and such like that but
we don't know have the overall benefit
to the community
why should current residents support
this and I just jotted down the number
one goal of the CIP plan should be to
sustain and enhance quality of life for
its akua's residents even as we grow in
other words those people who are already
here we're not forgetting about you to
accommodate thousands of newcomers we
want to sustain and enhance your quality
of life - even as we enable more growth
over the next 30 years so I think that
needs to be in there to let people
living here today know that they're a
priority - and I'd like to add on I
think there's a really key part that's
missing from all of this and that's the
jobs piece because we focus so much on
what the town is going to look like
physically the type of residents we're
going to have a mixed-use and so on but
what is the economic what what does a
job market are going to look like is it
going to be retail low income retail is
it going to be at median 100% of median
income are they going to be office jobs
are they going to be commercial jobs and
I think that's a really key piece
because right now we are at almost 100
percent
of what our targets are supposed to be
our eighth target a hundred percent of
our residential unit target and our job
market I don't have the numbers but I
think they're only at 10%
but not much higher than that so I think
that's addressed in the economic
vitality section but maybe just beefing
that up to talk when we're talking about
this story portion of the beginning not
going into right Mitchell okay so my
feedback is just I think we're missing
jobs I think that's fair you know I
think that you know clearly I think
partially because you know we were
really trying to get housing on the
valley floor there was definitely a big
slant towards the residential part of
this and then we started talking about
placemaking and turning them into
neighborhoods but you know in my mind
they are neighborhoods with jobs too so
that's I think I think we can definitely
add more flavour associated with jobs I
think that's a valid point so my
impression was that a lot of these
pieces that people are pointing out our
in the first pages but they're sort of
they're sort of in two different places
because there's the fresh look which I
really like the way that's organized
with the graphics and then there's also
the first page which has the plan vision
broken down into sections so I think
that it does tell a story but it's a
little bit repeating and kind of in a
different way and so maybe it could just
be made more succinct so that people can
say this is really the economic part
this is really the liveable part and my
other comment on the first pages is I
think I would reorder them also I think
livable instead of distinctive coming
first livable coming first from from a
storytelling standpoint I like how
you're starting to play around with
district first sub district first
neighborhood
and I think that can be leveraged a
little bit maybe a little more
explicitly because I think as the since
since the Commission is has recommended
kind of merging the growth area into one
district that there are very specific
district-wide visions but then there's
also a concern about will not abandon
the distinctive characteristics of the
sub districts I think I would recommend
going all-in on the using word choice to
drive that where districts are these
four big parcels that we're talking
through and then using neighborhoods to
refer to or previously the much smaller
districts I think you I think you kind
of you can tell that's how whoever as
this was being written that that was
kind of being done I think that's a
really helpful way to think about it
that we have formal districts and then
within those districts particularly the
central district or the growth area
district there are then neighborhoods
where those neighborhoods are more or
less the various constituent districts
that we had in Prior drafts
I think the using that kind of because
we spent a lot of time trying to decide
if we wanted to call the districts vs.
neighborhoods
I think referring to the growth area as
a district and then the four or five sub
pieces as neighborhoods might be helpful
way to leverage both of those words
you'd still be able to refer to
neighborhoods having a particular
distinctiveness while also having a
district distinctiveness and identity in
place making it so forth
I have to jump in on this one the
foundation from the task forces work I
mean we floundered for three or four
meetings until we coalesced around this
whole concept of the green necklace and
yet that's not really documented much in
this plan there's one little paragraph
but even that doesn't capture it and
then when you get into each neighborhood
vision it's not even mentioned but there
are specific segments of it like it's a
quad trail or other things that are
mentioned but it's not capturing the
foundational element of what this whole
plan was about which is that every
resident even as we grow should have
nature at their doorstep be able to walk
out there high-rise condo door to this
green necklace of connected trails and
open space that follows tippets Creek to
the state park over to Issaquah Creek up
into the confluence park up maple in
Juniper trail over to Tibbets Valley
Park and or other areas but we're not
capturing that and that should be a
foundational element so I'm gonna ask
you to hang on to that green necklace is
question one B because there were some
other comments about the green necklace
so I think we're gonna deal with it
specifically next once we kind of get
the other story comments so hang on to
that can PPC or task force any other
comments here before we give the public
an opportunity to say what they short
concise comments about the story from
from a storytelling standpoint if you're
gonna show this picture with a bunch of
colors make sure those colors either
have meaning or a legend or don't have
the colors and I'm wondering why there's
different shades of red and I know that
those colors should include green for
all the existing parks and open spaces
that are in that central area so that
that's known and it becomes clear that
they're part of what this green necklace
will become so that the green
should be shown I was just lazy and used
a zoning map but I don't disagree with
you hate I think that's fine but I think
for the final so do you have a
preference on should it show anything or
just geography I would rather I think I
would rather go with geography or
picture like the one Barry yeah I
wouldn't I wouldn't show zoning because
the zoning is a derivative of the
visions you don't want to start the
vision with zonings I agree I think but
I think it should show that okay yeah
maybe so I would just I think that's
probably best I think it should
definitely show the neighborhood's
because they're referenced throughout
the document and I don't I don't think
people would necessarily know where the
boundaries would be unless that was at
least on that one one more quick one I'm
gonna go back to what Lindsey pointed
out in her first comment and if you look
at the second from the bottom paragraph
page 17 which is capturing this this
story that sentence says finally growth
must not just fit in with our existing
community it must make it better and not
be a detriment to the existing residents
and businesses that exist within an
adjacent to central Issaquah that
shouldn't be a finally that should be
right up front that should be the
introductory paragraph which might say
something like Issaquah will grow over
the next 30 years per the visions
outlined in this plan
however growth must not just fit in with
our existing blah blah blah I would put
that right up front and again that again
is telling our existing residents we
care about you and we don't want to lose
the character and quality of life in our
community we want to make it better even
as we grow then that statement is really
well done right would it be helpful to
you to even lean into it anymore and use
language that we're gonna harness growth
to improve so it's not simply that okay
we've got a growth coming let's fit it
and make it better it's okay we've got
growth coming let's take advantage of
fact that these particular districts are
going to grow to facilitate a better
neighborhood in a better city so you use
some language around around harness and
in capture because because I think a lot
of the a lot of the deliver not
deliverables a lot of the measures at
City implementation actions and measures
of success you know the city is only
able to do that either because a they're
working with a particular development as
it occurs where B is going to be
harnessing extra money that's coming in
through that so I think I think taking
that paragraph is opportunity to make
very clear that a lot of these things
we're going to achieve not simply
because we're growing but we're actually
gonna be I'm not saying that right it's
not simply we're not doing this reacting
new growth we're actually going to be
able to do it because we're growing I
know that makes sense but it's kind of
it's spending a little bit positive like
a little bit more positive and in kind
of turning the air the other direction
whilst keeping them connected but have
employee other way it has a little look
to fly or anything and then I'm not to
nitpick but then the exact following
sentence it's semi colon comma after
occupancy period so this is true during
construction and after occupancy right
that sentence doesn't make any sense so
the one that Rick correct just read so
the the second last paragraph on page 17
so he read the first suit two sentences
or the first sentence and then the
second sentence which he didn't read and
I think it's missing a bunch of words
really yeah this is construction and
after occupants makes sense of other
people so so you want so you want growth
to fit in both during construction
because construction can be a big impact
to adjacent occupied uses right and then
after it's done and people are living
there or people are working there you
want it to fit in with whatever happens
to be adjacent to or nearby right so I
think you're I think you're trying to
address that fit piece both during
construction because that can be a big
impact to an
hood but also after it's done okay like
that I think there's one other aspect
that we are we're missing within these
four subsets and that is our parks and
our streams
we have fish bearing streams and so
there's a conversation that we should
make sure that a certain percentage of
our streams continue to have fish in
them and accessible to parks so we we're
not emphasizing enough and parks within
these four bullet points because isn't
that kind of the I mean that's what is
that's what people think right now
there's a clause we have all these parts
and we want to focus on these parks but
we're not putting that language in this
vision strongly enough or frequently
enough yeah and that's what I had given
feedback before the last meeting that I
thought in the environmental section we
really needed to talk about what
wildlife corridors which would could
easily end up along the streams but that
that needed to be part of that because
the whole reason we got into this also
central area plan is we didn't want a
bunch of parking lots you know the the
we wanted to try and make more pervious
service throughout the valley floor as
we grew to and not you know have all
these vast amounts of parking lots so
under the environmental I would like to
see wildlife corridors and passive open
spaces as added there is that in
question that is on are we getting off
track a little bit to put all these
things in it
yeah at the story level well it's
starting what this is the this is the de
sub that plan I mean that was part of
those pages is it on page two my page -
yeah right
why do I think that was the question for
Keith like a we are we starting to bring
up stuff that we should save for a later
slide
getting off track we're not gonna get it
you know all of those comments are
important and should be added I mean I
think you guys are on the right track
but I think we need to just go through
this and then well I was actually
mentioning the park piece because the
parts are really important to us and
it's not even mentioned in the first
four bullet points here which is really
this question I thought that's why
that's kind of those are our jewels as
our perk space we're kind of avoiding
that community is gonna understand
exactly what this and does unless they
can see something this language I think
is awesome
I think it's creative and it means you
know taking it at face value it creates
a perfect place but I think if I was
just a normal wasn't looking at this and
just lived in South Co I would think
well gee that's really nice but it
doesn't affect me because
I can't see what it's going to be it
says it's going to be perfect but I
can't see that there's going to be parks
around them and that stuff so I think
the first part is is I think the story
is fine with a few little comments and
add additions so I'm gonna I'm gonna
just put the fish on the sideboard I
don't disagree that fish are important
is it why I'm not sure that they had a
space in the original plan called out
I'm not saying they shouldn't I just
don't know where to stick it right now
so I'm gonna I wrote fish I'm not losing
it well I think I just want to bring up
the fish are actually really important
piece because as we develop and grow and
these districts expand and the
population explodes this town is about
fish it's our icon and we have the fish
hatchery well if we have so much growth
in so much density and we're missing the
stream development and protecting those
streams to make sure that they are fish
bearing and maybe having controls on
growth to ensure that they are going to
continue to be fish bearing I concur
with Mary that I think wildlife
corridors really need to be established
in the environment and so before moving
on with the green necklace I think it's
important to talk about that as an
actual value I think fish are included
in that and I think it's better to have
a broader spectrum of wildlife because
it's not just the iconic image that we
have it's about how we live and interact
in our space and I think that it's
better to talk about wildlife corridors
as something that's an actual physical
space as we all know it is and it's
something that's stringing and vital to
maintaining our character so having a
broad having a little more broader
language about that in the environment
section I think is very important
I don't I don't want to derail this
conversation but I think I disagree this
is central maybe I'm thinking too much
central like the growth district but
this is supposed to be like a dense
walkable vibrant urban neighborhood
there's not gonna be like deer and
raccoons three meetings ago I saw a
black bear not two blocks from here you
know there's of our community and I
think that even though we're not saying
we're prioritizing them above or instead
of growth I just think that there's
something that should be included since
we especially have an environment
section it's not like we have to create
a special wildlife area forum it's
already laid out for us right into
environment so that's why I'm still not
buying I think for the city Vista quoi
absolutely wild left orders to make are
incredibly important to make sure
animals can move between the different
hill parks into the lake and back map
but it specifically for central I don't
think it makes any sense here's the
here's the problem I see and that is if
we ghost if we focus on the core guess
where all the streams go through the
core so if we create a core that is not
fish habitat friendly we're not going to
have a fish hatchery but I have salmon
no one is saying we repealed state law
that will protect the streams it's
through the streams will be fine I don't
think I don't think we need to be
building any things above and beyond
what's basic we need to make sure that
there are controls that the development
isn't going to move the fish away I
don't think I don't think we're quite
there Rob but I do think we're just
talking about story right now and I
think some of us think that's an
important part of our story so to get
back anyways and just as a reminder I
think you're right you are talking about
just a story and getting it in the story
piece but there is a goal in six
policies to talk specifically about the
riparian corridor the wildlife corridor
protecting the stream so that's in the
plan itself but yes if it need it may
need to be mentioned up front as well
so we can just add fish I think I've got
I've got wildlife natural we will we
will add to the environment section so
there is a point in time where we can
make the rules and regulations but not
here this is yeah this is not the place
for rules but so okay I'm going to pivot
and give the public an opportunity to
give a brief comments on this section
just the story part of the districts for
those that came in late Steve and John
if you guys want to come up to the table
you're welcome to we're not going to
walk up and back
but Steve the reason is we're gonna talk
about these things one at a time and at
the end it's going to be probably a
little late for public comments so we're
gonna leave the public comment in during
the conversation so if you want come up
and I'm gonna let Connie go first if she
wants I think we need a number for under
the reasons why this community
conversation I think one of the problems
was as there was no linkage between the
vision and the implementation so I think
we need to strengthen the linkage
between the two and we can use these
district visions as that tool because
number three just says we're going to
describe them I think we need to go
beyond that and then say and and we this
is how we're going to use those
descriptions I think the environment
would fit nicely into an increased
description under sustainability because
I think that you're the sustainability
is a little thin and could be expanded
but I also agree that this whole big
first description of those four
characteristics could be collapsed into
cool little charts with the colors
because it's you're repeating it a few
times and I think it would be easier to
understand for people as they go through
I agree with the majority of what
everybody else is saying and support
that that's it David thank you I think
you know strengthening vision to reality
if we just have the vision we're still
going to get Gateway projects that be
concerned I have green necklace next
we're not there yet okay
we really will do that next promise
that's a big one I also want to make a
comment you don't have to comment what
tunes it's not a requirement
[Music]
ice-t Paris or anything should be late
or I'm sorry for being late
key thanks for setting the stage for me
to make sure I didn't enamel too far I
agree with a lot of the comments that I
heard as far as I'm concerned we're
gonna lose a part of those
characteristics of what those ten
neighborhoods were by dissolving them
down to four but not talking about those
things I like Connie's comment and
increasing the linkage between our
storytelling and how we're going to make
that happen we're gonna lose some things
otherwise and we need so we need Burbage
and code that talks about making those
things happen so I'm not gonna go back
and I have things and environment I'm
gonna set those aside for now and not
talk about those that's why pre-shared
key to setting the stage for what we
were doing I'll reserve my other
comments for present ok so here we go
question 1 B so before I flip the slide
I'm gonna talk for a second so right now
we there was there was comment about
there's been reoccurring comment about
the green necklace and the green
necklace is is you know there's kind of
a broadly diagrammed map in the plan and
there wasn't really a you know it and so
what we tried to do was was to encompass
a better description of what the green
necklace is intended to be and that's
what's in this paragraph and what we
heard on some early comments back on
this version was yeah but we need a map
we all love Maps and so we we went ahead
and did a stab at a map and I think so
so the question is going to be does the
map helpers the map actually take us in
the wrong direction
and we need to have very open
conversation of
the map so so what would the graphic so
we can work on the graphic the question
is does it help to have a graphic and if
so we'll work on the graphic having some
comments on how to make the graphic read
a little bit better but this was a a an
attack by staff to try and translate the
paragraph into something more imageable
now in some ways that's good and in some
ways it takes out kind of that image and
michaelis was and you might be
disappointed or you might be super
thrilled so I'm gonna stop talking is
this helpful or not and if it's helpful
how do we make it as helpful as it can
be if this particular image isn't what
y'all had in mind so I think it's
helpful it needs to be a little more
accurate for example where you've got
Pickering barn and Darce Park and all
that that's where you would route the
green necklace not over there on the
East Lake Sammamish trail so you'd want
to so this section right here can
migrate to the southwest yeah and run
along this yep yeah and connect over to
confluence park and then maple juniper
trail over to Tibbets Valley Park should
probably show a connector to Tiger
Mountain and squawk Mountain just a
hypothetical connector like you do to
cougar same thing for squawk and tiger
but you're capturing the essence which
is the green necklace was envisioned to
route along the Tippit's Creek corridor
through Lake Sammamish State Park back
up through the Issaquah Creek corridor
and the missing link is only between
Tibbets Valley Park and over to probably
confluence park and or wherever
we want to have linkages to that section
and then connections to the outer grain
of Cougars squawk tiger and the regional
trails like East Lake Sammamish trail
high point trail in the i-90 trail if
you could capture that the diagram some
conceptional diagram like that I think
is very helpful and I would add the
verbage though the verbage about the
green necklace needs to be right up
front in the story and as a priority of
what the central Issaquah plan is all
about its foundation was that even as we
grow and turn into an urban center we're
gonna ensure nature at the doorstep of
every person with all which also allows
for commuting and access to transit and
walkable shopping and all sorts of
things but access to nature on an inner
and an outer green necklace that was the
concept would we want to add more
connectivity based on st3 coming or
accessibility so if st3 assuming that
the light rail is going to be under 90
would we want to add more connectors to
that area and do we want to go all the
way up to there's supposedly a train
station no I don't think the train
station belongs on this map I think so
there I think there's two things that I
would distinguish between them one is
the green necklace which is that nature
at your doorstep opportunity and I think
parts of that may be part of the
commuter network but not necessarily the
same thing and what you're getting at is
the commuter network of ped and bike
facilities that may be part of this but
maybe also separate from what the green
necklace actually is yeah I was thinking
of that you can have suctions which
would be shared yeah so is it planning
the
have a have a path all the way around
there or we gonna have pockets of parts
it's going to be a pathway could be as
wide as a path it could be a wide as
confluence apart it's connections
between all the green spaces which might
be large but where you can't have the
large spaces then you have a path that
connects them all it concept being much
like the mountains Tucson Greenway which
in Seattle is nothing more than an urban
trail in many places but that connects
you out to the broader mountain network
of trails and this is connections of
open space Tibbits Valley Park
confluence park Pickering barn and darts
Park all those areas but then connecting
them all by a trail that allows people
to flow between all of those I just like
more specifics on where that trails
gonna go well so that's what I was going
to say and I think there's there's a map
in the central is so called plan already
that's exhibit 7 page 43 that details
exactly where the proposed routes for
urban shared path proposed new parks
regional routes things like that I think
that level of detail is important but
also to be able to do some of the scale
here that talks about connecting out to
Cougar Mountain and the high point trail
but I think the details there are what
are going to be very important and what
map was that again so it's in the
central let's call plan yeah exhibit 7
page 43 yeah so that so that map is
absolutely critical part of the plans
right I like that the vision is a slight
abstraction away from that you need you
need both we need the detail plan with
detail deliverable
but you want that you want the elevator
you want the image that like it's simple
enough that people go okay the green
necklace it's this thing that loops
around it follows the creek and it's got
these Spurs that go off to the green
hillsides around and then there's also
these Spurs that head towards the center
which actually ends up being the train
station like it or not yes he told me
the bad guy and an answer to your
question I think we absolutely need a
graphic and I absolutely don't like this
graphic and I would encourage a
visualization that's more like a
spiderweb that I think might encourage a
little bit more of an interconnectedness
and a running through the community
rather than this kind of go piece and
but I'm not I'm not crazy about this
graphic I I agree mostly I like that we
still the necklace so it fits with the
the branding but I do think the little
whatever they are end up being if
they're little green circles not only do
they be coming out but you should be
able to get between the four boxes just
just just reduce the show that it
connects internally yeah it's more like
a spiderweb try to give you a little
more of a design aspect so we've been so
there's been green web green a cream
necklace screen net lantern I think we
can stick with the same name even if the
image accent being inspired our
community actually look like a string of
green pearls I hear you so what I heard
was that there should show some
connectivity internal to this because
that it's going to be that way anyway so
it'll make it feel more like it is in a
part of our community it runs throughout
it much like our streams rather than it
feeling like and then we have a loop you
know yeah so I'm in a number of our
meetings we've discussed the green
necklace and I think that this is very
helpful because I hadn't actually
thought of it this way
for and so I do think that it is very
helpful but I agree that it's kind of
like a cartoon on top of a realistic map
and I think that since we have these
green spaces there you could use just
more of a overlay so you could see
through the green necklace type area so
some sort of translucency and a little
less of the cartoony mix that would be
my recommendation but I do think it is
helpful to see it this way it can be
smaller pearls or emeralds I got to
throw this in because this is such a
priority to me that I actually met with
Jeff Watling the parks director today
specifically to ask about this and where
parks department is in defining the
route and all that we had a very good
discussion and I'm not gonna I'm not
gonna quote Jeff or put him on the spot
but I'd say that I would be confident
that the parks department perhaps
working with this achill helps trails
called cascade bike club and all these
other groups could within six months
define the desired specific route of
what the green necklace would be that
connects all these open spaces so that's
the timeframe we're talking about to go
from cartoon to a real plan and that's
what you know Jeff is all for that too I
think I'm not going to quote him or or
try to put him on the spot I'm surmising
that Jeff is for that and I'm certainly
for that and think that's where we got
to go is get to a specific detailed
route and plan that guides us or it's
never going to happen as each parcel
develops we'll lose that opportunity
that we needed so it's got to be down to
a parcel level as to where that routes
gonna go can I throw something out there
so I think the map is great I love it
but what's with the people demand we
gotta we gotta give people what they
want but would it be also useful to
actually use this exact framework so
today future for boxes
and then the action item is a measure of
success and have a full page on the
green necklace and so this picture could
be a quarter of the real estate but so
you have four pages one for each
district what else be able to have a
green necklace page that ends up having
the exact same sections I think at the
very minimum being able to say today
what's missing and the vision of it
because that was one thing that counsel
definitely mentioned in their meetings
was okay but how specifically do we get
there what's missing and so if we
indicate on there this central Issaquah
area is missing those 24/7 gathering
places and we have a few connectivity
points here that are needed that gives
us an implementation plan so I think I
think this this delivers the content
that everyone's asking for but I think
stylistically by having it actually end
up looking the same it shows that the
green necklace is co-equal with the four
district vision and going beyond just
the name to the district so I like your
lingo of going districts and
neighborhoods so I want to keep keep
that so going beyond the districts and
keeping us and following this and going
with the sustainability the things we
valued being able to having that space
to detail out the same way that we say
our stories nice but it doesn't say
everything we want to say if we have
this layout then we're able to go into
more of the nitty-gritty for environment
for livability and those tenants that we
find to be important just like we do the
districts but instead of having just
this one paragraph layout the way that
we have this I think that's a great
suggestion
it works and gets it all put together
where there helps that particular map
just making it I want to say bigger but
still the same size but show a little
more detail on the underneath part so
that people can get a little bit better
idea of where it is going I mean you can
keep the same map only stretch the
bottom and so people can get a better
idea that and then come in with the rest
of the Finland
okay all right public there's a couple
of spokes missing the city has put a lot
of money to connecting Lake Sammamish
State Park with the east side of spock
mountain using as a quarry corridor and
that needs to be reflected we're also
the silverado plat and some of these
others plus the county acquisitions are
working on the west side of squawk to
connect Tippett's valley park to the
west side of suaq and the city open
space they have on squawk and you know
just across to all the city open space
on coders so what there needs to be some
of those out more outward spokes going
on for sure but we need a much more
defined map eventually to be fair to a
developers so they know that this is
coming out that they can plan for that
hopefully they see it as an amenity
implanted into the project rather than
doing a project and then find out this
they're trying to force this on them and
it screws up their project so we want
people to see this as amenity to their
development and useful and
a real asset and that they're part of
this and that's got to get down on the
ground fine rather than that so there's
connectivity and then there's green
necklace and then there's some places
where connectivity is the green necklace
and so I see them laid on top of each
other and so if you're gonna do a
call-out sheet for example for the green
necklace I think we also need a call-out
sheet for connectivity and what things
are missing and what we need for
connectivity in each each neighborhood
but those are sort of overarching all
over the central Issaquah plan so I
think we have some topics that are
within neighborhoods and some topics
that are overarching and this is one
that I call overarching I think it needs
to be a net or a mesh or a web because I
think every neighborhood should feel
like it is a part of the green necklace
and it should be connected to whatever
the largest parks are and then within
each one we have expectations of the
developers also creating little bits of
the green necklace and so we have to
have some method of getting them to put
their appropriate private parks in to
augment the public parks that are likely
to be larger and then figuring it out
how the trails will connect them all
together and in this conversation
tonight I don't get a sensation that
that is occurring I get the feeling that
we're still looking at these blobs
saying well this is enough I think it
has to be entirely controlled and put
together and scheduled now how to do
that what is written here doesn't even
attempt that because remember the parks
department still has to come out with
their parks plan one thing I was
thinking is perhaps the trails that are
exist
would be a decent base for being
underneath this map so then at least we
could see what we already have and we
might be able understand better what we
need for the connectivity thanks so I
looked at this and I guess I liked this
map from the standpoint it boy does make
a true statement of what the green
necklace that everybody's talking about
to me I didn't picture a green necklace
just to be a place of connectivity
between different places you'd go to but
that is why would retain some of its
character and charm as far as being a
wooded small-town feel and that's built
in to who we are as a people and
maintaining it more than just as a thing
on the fringe or a connection to get to
but it's REIT retaining parse its
retaining open space it's retaining and
protecting streams it's protecting Sam
and it's protecting riparian care
riparian and bird and wildlife corridors
we haven't captured that in either our
story or in our document and I think
that needs to be part of who we are if
we don't talk about it we're not going
to have it come true we're going 20
years down the road and say we don't
have salmon bearing streams anymore we
don't have wildlife quarters the deer
that we see the pictures we say yeah
next door were you know a bear or a
cougar aren't can happen because we
haven't talked about those as part of
our story we just talked about a green
delicate breakable necklace
any final thoughts before I move all
right so we're gonna get to maybe some
easier questions here so question number
two should the service district be
removed from central Issaquah so service
is down here
it's at shop okay yep okay north side of
90 kind of south end of the city this is
the area with RV park and City shop and
other things and so yes no don't know
[Music]
what kind of rules would you be so so
there's so what would happen is if we
take it out the zoning their zoning on
the property now most of those
properties are zoned intensive
commercial which allows things like auto
shops and manufacturing and it's kind of
our little manufacturing kind of
neighborhood that we have in the city
which is super important from a business
standpoint but there are standards that
apply outside of central Issaquah if we
take it out
what would happen is as a follow-up if
you guys decide to take it out what we
will do in 2018 is we'll send out
basically a notice to property owners
that their standards are going to change
now to give them an opportunity to come
to a PPC hearing where they could say
that doesn't work for them or that is
fine or whatever but what so basically
it's more about things like setbacks and
building heights than it is about land
uses that's what's different
central Issaquah allows for more dense
development then what would happen if we
take it out did that answer your
question Joan
okay I just want to make sure there is
some governing yes take rules they're
not as good but we have yeah I'm totally
fine with it being dropped from from the
vision as long as the worse don't have a
standalone decision point where we
actually think through the ramifications
of it being in central Issaquah from a
legal perspective versus not that's I
think sounds what you're saying is yes
we will
there's a follow up code action yes
that's I'm saying I think I'm just
voicing that want to make sure code
action where the public gets an
opportunity to weigh in on that other
than other than this public here yeah
yes and then the Commission gets to
think about it and make sure okay cool
that makes sense
yes so the task force struggled with
that district two and not sure what it
should be could be but one thought was
kind of an incubator area for new
startups you know think of this took
about 30 years from now it's a desirable
place the next Apple might well found
itself in Issaquah for all we know and
maybe that's a place where that could be
and if that can happen without being in
the central Issaquah plan I'm ok with it
I'm just nervous about what might happen
if it's not in the plan
and we don't want to lose that that's
now the Eastern Gateway to Issaquah I
saw what happened to the Western gateway
and I'm not happy about that
so let's not lose the Eastern Gateway
and in fact we could turn that as an
Eastern gateway into something very nice
when that RV park moves out and other
things it could become a grand entryway
to Issaquah as you come out of the
assaut clubs on out of the mountains to
Sohn Greenway right into the heart of
Issaquah what do we want that area to be
is the first thing people see that's how
I look at that so if we can manage that
without it being in the central Issaquah
plan okay but if it's better to manage
it by having that in the plan and that's
something we need to consider
there's still a citywide vision
statement and all that fun stuff and so
I think everything we're trying to
accomplish with that neighborhood we can
cover at a citywide level as opposed to
essential to support level public thumbs
up thumbs down
the RV park is completely owned by the
city right yep yep and it's also our
zone for adult entertainment and
marijuana stores yep so and that's what
we've decided to put those things we
don't want anywhere else
yep that doesn't mean we wanted you know
we wanted to have some class - Kylie do
you have anything for this one Steve
anything - just I think this is also the
property where the mobile home park yes
okay I've just my own I take this
mistake of an affordable housing piece
of unit I want to make sure that gets
doesn't get overwhelmed by possible
development and can be carried forward
okay just to be clear did anybody else
want to make a comment gun yes or no do
you want to thumbs-up yes okay next old
route 10 same question so old route 10
is southern part eastern part south of
i90 it's where XXX and bombs and the
grange happened to live and as we talked
about that one I think that again things
that I heard were that neighborhood
seems to feel more like Old Town than it
does central Issaquah so maybe that
should be its resting spot again if you
combine the two your need to be plugged
in John
I have two together how how the rules
that have already the codes you know
have already been accepted for Old Town
how will it apply to that we actually
have so we're in the process now of
updating the Old Town plan and so if if
the Commission decides that old route 10
really feels more like Old Town or
should doesn't feel so much like central
Issaquah we take it out of central
Issaquah the Old Town plan still has to
come back we brought to you guys a long
time ago and it has changed about as
much as the visions have changed so
you're gonna get another whack at it and
so by then which will probably be
January or February of next year we will
know whether this has come out of
central Issaquah and then a whole
conversation that we will have is should
we now change the boundary for Old Town
to include old route 10 into Old Town so
that's a whole that's the way that will
play out if ultimately you guys want to
take it out of central Issaquah and the
council agrees just just thinking of
what Old Town is going to be the type of
housing is going to go in there and we
have talked about this roof slants and
all this other stuff how will that
actually affect and old route 10 if if
you combine the two I mean we heard last
time there might be a bar and in there
different kinds of things that might be
going on there that would be affected by
rules that would be governing Old Town
right so obviously when we put the
latest version of the Plan Update
together we weren't envisioning adding
this area so if that is indeed the
outcome then I think we as staff and I'm
looking at Kristen cuz Dave's not in the
room we need to go back and look at that
and think about that and probably work
on some language for that like this it's
going to be planned first and standard
second so if we include
old about 10 in Old Town then that's
changing maps that's adding some
policies potentially to talk about that
area but then we have to look at okay
what kind of code now would we want to
potentially put in place that would be
specific to the old about ten part of
Old Town because we have like if you
remember we have specific code language
related to like say front streets that's
what we call the cultural business
district it has specific code related to
it that's different than sunset right so
it would be like adding kind of another
layer for old route ten potentially I
think we'd have to talk through that and
we as staff haven't even started that
conversation yet because we're trying to
get visions it will it will get if if
that's what we want to do we will
definitely put the time into it and then
you guys will get that first probably in
February ish and our next meeting I
believe December 14th isn't are we going
to be starting to go over that no yeah
we were both I would not crank corrected
that was what was sent out was okay it
was we were hoping to be done with
conversations that land in Shore so that
then we can come back to PPC but Landon
Shore has been busy with other things so
it got kicked to next year actually yeah
I'm not I think I'm okay with moving
some of old art 10 old town or just
tonigh there but I'm not I'm if we do
that I don't think the borders as drawn
our best we're gonna have that
conversation separately okay yes I
anticipated so we've we've got actually
a are the borders in the right place
conversation coming up so hang on to
that thought okay I think it's better to
take it out it does not
fit with the character of what we're
talking about with the rest of the
central Isikoff plan and I see great
potential for the Grange with their barn
and bones and whatever other xxx root
beer and and their car shows all that is
a fun kind of funky a Beltone kind of
area of Issaquah maybe in the future and
that's what it should be it doesn't need
to be high-rise condos and all that it
should be funky oldest as well
that's what you originally imagined it
to be the 1950's kind of thing that's
kind of in my mind that's what it's
always been
yeah okay so destination is what we saw
let me not only for a local but
destination and with all the trail
connections coming down you know it's
that the locals can ride their bikes
down or to it but also people can come
and take transit and their bikes and
ride or walk up into the tiger mountain
and into the other parks but let it be a
destination area so if anybody wanted to
put in a nice restaurant that cater to
bikers that would be a perfect place
right yes yeah John you're gonna want to
talk I know that so first let's let's
get to the folks at the table
Connie Dave Steve I'm admittedly a huge
proponent of removing it from the
central as well then I'd like to make
sure it's down zones so we don't because
state prices lose bones and Grange and
xxx I think those are heritage places I
think this is lost reflects I that
remains in the chain those would be
started lose it's still zoned for as a
25 mile an hour or there's no speed zone
post which means 25 miles a zone
it feels very much like part of Old Town
weather that you map the same coding in
I'm open to that
but it doesn't belong as part of
attention is central to our plan and
needs to retain its kind of current look
and feel thanks John you want to come up
sure you're welcome to come you know
we've john mavar and I run the Grange
and I you know I've talked this over
with folks at the store and folks on the
board and of course you know where we've
been around since 43 and a beldam has
been around a long time and and of
course the dairy gold there and I think
that I you know I think we've got to
make us more part of old town and and
what's interesting that's come up is
sort of this idea of an Old Town loop
where you can come through downtown take
the right on on Gilman there and then
come back around so you actually can
kind of see old town and the Grange at
least as long as I'm there what we're
doing virtually every few months is
trying to do something to increase our
curb appeal so syntaxes come out and
read on the fuel island and we're
actually going to paint a mural on the
big long fence that is there we're gonna
knock out the window so that we actually
look more like a storefront than like a
gulag and yeah and again we're gonna
we're gonna put a bar and sort of in the
back on the Left I think is where it's
gonna wind up in and in that bar and
we're gonna do some classes and dances
but we've actually as a real community
resource we've knocked out a wall in our
conference room and made it about 40%
bigger because our classes have become
kind of overwhelmingly large and and
then I mean just so that you know we did
a community Appreciation Day I'm not
sure if any of you all were there in the
middle of the summer and there must have
been a thousand people showed up we
changed it from customer appreciation
day because that's confining and and we
made it a community Appreciation Day and
the diversity and the age difference of
the folks there was terrific so I think
you know when you think about Old Town I
guess what I'd ask you to
consider and remember is that you know
not only the Grange has been there a
long time but we really are
concentrating on being compelling and
necessary and and important in the
community so I I love Old Town I mean
that's where I did all my Christmas
shopping last year and that's where I'm
gonna do it this year and and I think I
think that most of the folks that I
talked to the shop there and on the
board would like to be more part of that
awesome thanks thank you
all right kept it in to Old Town where
would the connection be well so so we'd
have to talk about that right I mean
we'd have to talk about you know whether
you extended it from the south to
include that or whether you and I'm
talking about plan connection and not
any kind of mobility connection you know
if you're gonna grab that area in and
bring it into Old Town you know we
talked about staples and bringing that
in which is now lazyboy you know and so
you've got to talk about we've got to
revisit those conversations about if
you're gonna bring this area that makes
sense into Old Town what area that's
next to it that maybe we've already
decided it wasn't part of Old Town is
going to get sucked in as part of that
process so I think we'd have to look at
that Joan I don't think tonight we would
want to spend too much time on that very
difficult to find an area that hasn't
been built on to have an easy flow
through access and if you're going to
call it Old Town you're going to have to
have it connected right but I think
that's kind of the same thing we did we
were trying to bolt together
Tibbits Valley and Pickering you
they're clearly divided right now we
from a vision standpoint we wanted to be
one thing it's kind of the same thing
with older out of 10 right now it
doesn't really flow to the rest of old
town but from a vision standpoint let's
connect them and then that means then
that means what they need to figure out
how to implement the connection so you
have to start with the vision that idea
of the rgc being one neighborhood or two
we still have to have that conversation
[Laughter]
put that out there on public record
yes there one last comment about the
overall 10 and if we do make it a bring
an end to the boundaries of Old Town I
think it needs to be a subset with its
own codes unique to that area because
with triple acts the Grange I think that
area could be so much more than what it
is today with the right the right
improvements the right enhancements and
still take the attributes of Old Town
but with the Grange those are really
kind of Jules and I we're not we're not
maximizing its potential it doesn't need
to be a two-lane road for one it could
be you know it could be a smaller
two-lane road and we give that real
estate back to the businesses or put in
parks or something that source to
enhance and expand their businesses
right but I don't you think if it's
going to be part of Old Town it should
be a subset of Old Town but definitely
not part of the central as a call plan
ok question for this is and if you've
gotten the theme of these questions it's
should areas be in central Esquire out
so this area down and to give you guys
kind of the lay of the land so this area
we titled confluence neighbourhood
because it's kind of the confluence
between central Issaquah and Old Town
but it's and it's right next to
confluence park and
you know so here's the this big white
thing is this is Safeway REI right here
so it's basically south of Locust it
runs over picks up kind of that area
that's on the to that new apartment
buildings gonna be yeah it's called anus
wood I was trying to figure out what
direction I guess that's West the west
side of Newport you know and then runs
down to kind of tell Holly and so this
area is you know it's it it is it's we
drove through it I made a left on the
Gillman from juniper at five o'clock or
six o'clock which in a van which was
interesting so it's but it's a mix of
uses there's there's residential there
is some commercial there's like some I
think there's places that offer like
music lessons and things there's you
know you've got some senior housing and
assisted living in there it's just it's
a real kind of mix of stuff and so I
think I think the question is it
definitely has a different flavor than
some of the other neighborhoods in
central Issaquah I think we've talked
about that maybe that's okay maybe
that's important to have areas of
different you know character but I think
the question is I have heard at least
somebody suggests that maybe this area
should be taken out of central Issaquah
I would agree what a percent does not
belong in central as crumbling
where is gilman village in that is that
in the area it's in East Valley actually
so I think it's right here
tell me if I'm wrong make it bigger
not where I am
I could I could get out and get on to
something else to make it bigger if I
needed to I know it happened you want me
to you want me to see if it's just hard
to to actually see yeah then use you
zoom with the bottom right look at that
I just don't know if it's legible look
at that wow that's right nice oops
[Music]
you guys good yeah okay
so Alice Alice is here
this is Vale it's under construction
right now basically 7th and Locust Ennis
woods over here under the green fuzz you
know you've got Bernstein Park in salmon
run park kind of in the middle of this
neighborhood confluence is down here so
I heard one out why would we not have
Gilman village and part of that Gilman
village right now is in the East Valley
neighborhood we can talk about we're
talk about the boundaries later so so
where Gilman village lands can be a
conversation we'll have so I think this
is great I like the idea of having it a
part of the central Issaquah but not
part of the growth Center and the East
Indies Valley because those are a lot
more denser a lot more urban I really
like this functioning as a transition
neighborhood that has aspects of oops
sorry that has aspects of central is
aqua which is denser and more urban than
the rest of us aqua but not as dense in
urban as the growth Center in East
Valley so I think the idea of having
this neighborhood very much
transitioning from the growth Center to
Old Town I think is fantastic I think
it's it makes sense as a district
especially with the confluence park is
kind of your place making neighborhood I
think I think that there's a lot to like
about one including it into that this
specific district does as visioned I
agree I keep it in well I know I
attended the district meetings that we
held and the citizens that the residents
that live there right now
very concerned with it staying in
because they really feel that you know
what's happened to their residential
area with Ennis wood and with locust and
with Atlas it's just atrocious because
you know they've got these tall
buildings going in next to you know
two-story houses and so they don't
really think that those are fitting in
with the character of their
neighborhoods especially right up next
to a park so unless this has you know
some zoning and codes that definitely
change from what's gone on in there I
don't think the residents that live
there feel that this should be part of
the central area plan because they they
don't feel like they their existing
homes are being protected or appreciated
I agree with everything AJ said so I
won't repeat at all I think he's nailed
it but the only thing I'd add is this
also serves a subset of the population
that needs to have an area where they
can live that can walk to old town walk
to the school that has dispersed housing
not all high-rises we don't want to lose
that that's part of historic Issaquah
and I think it does not need to be part
of the central Issaquah plan either I
think my concern is that right next to
that and above it is the area that we've
identified for mixed-use and in order to
make that happen as as a project we need
to know that there's going to be dense
housing nearby and so I would say it
probably needs to be considered in the
central Issaquah plan as a way to have
some of those projects there that could
be transitionary I would completely
agree with that this is a 30-year plan
and something that's in the house now
that's a single-family house that's been
there for 30 years it's the city's
transitioning and we can't pretend
seeing the family houses in the middle
of an urban neighborhood and you've got
retail that's walking distance hopefully
more jobs would be walking distance I
would keep it in I guess I guess there's
a lot of new homes that have gone in
there in the last five years there are a
lot of older apartments that are the low
affordable and I think as those are
redevelop there needs to be a
redevelopment and attempting to keep
those but there is a tremendous number
of new homes built that have been built
there single-family yes they're a little
bit taller and some of them may be 3
story single family but that have gone
in in the last five years in that area
and you're talking $500,000 to a million
dollar homes that those those are the
people that showed up at this meeting
and said we don't want an atlas another
atlas going in next door maybe for this
because those concerns to address it and
I understand some of my other
commissioners comments which also make
sense from an economic vitality
standpoint maybe this being a transition
center if it's a not part of CIP but it
is a transition boundary or a
transitional area - if we pull it out a
CIP then what would that vision look
like I mean what what kind of buildings
would go in there and if it's part of
CIP what kind of buildings would be
there so so that's that's a good
question I think I think you need to
think about it in terms of two things
one is buildings but also it's the what
else we get in central Issaquah so
central Issaquah it's not just about the
density that you can build on each
parcel it's also that that development
is pedestrian-oriented that the streets
are complete with you know pedestrian
facilities and adequate bike
considerations whether they're bike
lanes or something else and so by having
it in central Issaquah it's this
neighborhood is going to get the
benefits of those things you know what
we have here and and somebody mentioned
it and I apologize for not remembering
who so that's that's elementary school
right that's currently the admin offices
for the school districts so that's a new
middle school and so as we talk about
and I think we talked about it in the
van a little bit you know this
neighborhood you know it's it's it's got
a great kind of funk associated with it
because of the diversity of housing and
things that are here but it is truly
walkable to a ton of stuff you know you
can live in this neighborhood walk to an
elementary school walk to your middle
school walk to a big city park walk to
old town walk to Gilman village walk to
Safeway walk to REI I mean it's a great
it's a great place and it's it's kind of
off the map for a lot of people you know
they don't drive back through here
because there's not a lot of reason to
you know seventh is going to become a
lot busier because of the amount of
housing that's gone in with Atlas and
once vales occupied and so that's that
is definitely going to impact I think
this neighborhood a bit but I think that
so so to answer your question Ron I
think if it was outside central Issaquah
similar to service an Old Town what
happens is the zonings not going to
change I don't believe and I'm looking
at my zoning experts over there to tell
me if I'm wrong but the development
standards will so for example building
heights and FA RS will be lower and so
there would be some more you you you
potentially scale in some of the stuff
that's there now but you also have you
know in in my mind one of the reasons
why this is off the map is parcels are
really small you know the bigger parcels
have already
then bail was one of the bigger ones in
this neighborhood and it's we know what
it is now but to go in there and
assemble a bunch of small lot housing to
you know bulldoze it and build something
else that's hard it doesn't mean it
won't happen but maybe to Mel's point
that might be 20 years from now and not
two years from now you know as people
are looking for redevelopment
opportunities if you have to this is and
take a page out of the school district
if you have to assemble a bunch of
residential properties individually
owned that's going to be your last
choice as opposed to finding bigger
parcels or things that are ready to go
okay - Ron's point - he asked what kind
of building would be built there it's
not in central Issaquah we have
architectural standards that have just
been adopted and if it's not in central
let's applaud those don't apply right so
density now let's talk about density for
a moment density is actually unchanged
because they are zoned today for X
density and all we're talking about is
the codes - actually the design
standards yeah do you want to apply the
CIP senators or not this isn't a do one
up zone or down zone question because
building heights are higher in central
Issaquah right so if we actually make
this part of the CIE if this is part of
the CIP then the building heights go up
and density goes up or what you're
saying is density goes down if you
remove it building Heights impervious
surface those go down and if you keep it
in they remain higher be impervious
surface and building Heights could its
endo so could you actually create kind
of a combination area where you keep a
toned down version of the CIP here so
that you have a lot of the amenities and
the attributes of the CIP but you don't
have
the taller buildings so you could so
sure that's a zone change that's that's
a change to code not visions now I think
in the vision when we get to the vision
if you decide potentially you can
reserve the right to have a conversation
about confluence later but if if
ultimately we decide that the vision for
this neighborhood should be lower scaled
you know that could then also lead to a
request to reduce the maximum building
height what is the maximum building
height now so it could go from you know
five storeys to four you know if that
but that's a code change you know that
would happen after based on you know
recommendation that you all might have
about this neighborhood if you leave it
in or you leave it at you know sixty
five which is really five stories and
say you know what at maybe thirty years
from now it should be five stories yeah
what one thing keep in mind is you as
you look at the actual verbiage it says
things like small-scale redevelopment
did you know distinctive 1.3 low to
moderate density so I think the language
there is very much clear pegged down
from other parts of Central District one
think of the comments okay any
recommendation I think that it seems to
feel similar to I mean it seems to fit
into the central Issaquah from a feel
standpoint in my perspective and it
seems also to a lot of the vision
statements as far as livability
sustainability it's right next to this
beautiful park and right next to schools
and walkable and it to me it seems to
already sort of be going in that
direction to meet a lot of those
livability livability aims and so I
think it's kind of going that direction
already and it is transition a
transition and it has small parcels so
it probably will go slower but I think
it fits it feels like it fits in with
central Wisconsin public with the
difference with the verbiage that goes
along with it to ensure that there is
part of our central area that has a less
dense more family-oriented kind of feel
to it if it is part of this if we do
decide to make it part of the CIP I want
to know why Gillman village is not part
of it oh you said you're gonna get to a
tuck we're talking about boundaries soon
I'd Steve it seems like I'm in here I
hear the both the argument that it's a
good part for CIP to apply to it because
that's the walkability thing denser if
you want to keep it as this transitional
neighborhood though you have to not have
it in CIP or you have to have it in a
separate code or a separate way of
talking about it otherwise people are
gonna buy up to the single homes piece
by piece and they're gonna build
something bigger if you put in the AP
you're gonna lose that it's going to
become a transitional it's gonna become
it's gonna lose that current feel
that bothers me so I would rather see it
outside the c.a.p or a separate piece
and I'll go with Ron's come and I think
Gilman village needs to be part of that
discussion as well Connie or David yeah
so the MER district mixed-use
residential is that the murder district
[Laughter]
[Applause]
just a little ways across the freeway
yes the murder district makes you so is
those are the rules that got you what
you have and that is an intermediary
zoning that's already within the city
that provides mixed-use but not the big
density and so when you look at this
parcel then you see the creek going down
the center you can see that a lot of
this is the critical area that we're
trying to protect there's only a small
slice that you would even want to
consider in the high-density that is the
central Issaquah plan at this point in
time we don't have anything in our
descriptive language that has ever
changed the code ability for people to
build the tall buildings and so given
what we have now if you say this stays
in that still does not change that
language they still have the ability for
that high-density no matter what the
vision language says unless the code has
changed now that is that gets to that we
need a better linkage between our vision
and actuality but I don't trust that yet
so if we could be very very very sure
that that would change and that we would
be able to enforce the vision to lower
density or less density I think this
would be fine I think we have two years
before we can be very very sure that
that is true and until that point in
time and sees how this is not going to
be redeveloped quickly I would prefer to
keep it in the MER where you can get
this great mixed-use residential smaller
lot walkable
feel without the threat of the density
thanks it is a really interesting
neighborhood it's great to walk through
there low cross confluence park and
through there and actually atlas to
Gilman then you come back through Gilman
village and stuff and you can really
walk a lot and not have much noise or a
bunch traffic it's gonna get worse at
minute late but it's we don't we don't
still want to screw that every up it's
pretty special and it's I think a lot of
retired people are gravitating there
because they can get to things they can
ride a bike on what land they've got a
grocery store which we don't have in
this end of town so that's pretty it's
got a lot of advantages this don't screw
it up I don't know okay wrote down don't
screw it up all right all right AJ
should the Regional Growth Center be one
or two neighborhoods one whoa so so can
I so I so look at it so the the key word
there is neighborhood so I'm curious if
we can you do kind of get up get up both
and have it be one district but then in
the district division articulate
multiple neighborhoods so you'd still
only get one page for the district to
make it very clear that for instance the
light rail station is supposed to be the
pivot and the node for the entire
district but you can still have
neighborhoods within that when you say
neighborhoods you're talking about
themed neighborhood juice no I'm talking
about like place making it that the idea
that you would near your you were let
your your zoning and your your
your legal requirements would be the
same but you would then the city would
then refer to it and label things
stinking so more it's more of a more of
a nebulous placemaking would you say
that as for neighborhoods one district
what would your vision look like because
I hear what you're gone and I'm kind of
on board with it but I I see I see three
neighborhoods I don't really see why
Highland Tibbets Valley need to be two
separate ones but that's that's more
nitpicking and I mean youyou you kind of
have four neighbors what it's because of
the development agreement but is the
elephant agreement cross 900 he does
yeah so rally Center belly centers over
here and Hylas over here and so the
development agreement actually kind of
grabs all of that area I guess so the
number is I don't disagree with kind of
where you're going with that AJ I think
the question is is you know would you
then just split it north and south so
this would be one neighborhood on the
north side and then this would be a
neighborhood on the south side where
does SR 900 is it a big enough division
that hila is separate from kind of this
area over here it's it's a natural wall
not a natural but it's a boundary
it's a boundary but I think the question
is is is the is our vision that currency
if it is our vision that that that band
will be oh that's calm yeah over that
boundary be a natural transition between
neighborhoods I think that that's the
question I think we should talk district
before neighborhood because I'm not I'm
not sold either that it should be one
district or a north and south district
because if you're looking at it
particularly if you look into the Costco
development agreement that's in the
Pickering area they've identified quite
a bit of extra area
they may want to expand into and so if
they do that that really dominates that
top area and so that would create a
clear differentiation between the north
area and then the south area would be
more of the mixed-use residential dense
housing you know that feel so I think
you could end up with two very different
feels the question is is that our
intention or can we even control for
that and does that change how we choose
them as districts and adding to that
Pickering and getting back to the jobs
piece if we decide to make these the one
district three or four different
neighborhoods where are the jobs going
to go
if we remove Pickering right now all the
landlords have to be on board an
agreement before they can put any kind
of residential there but if we focus on
Pickering and actually and I originally
thought that would be great to have that
as mixed-use residential but if we
create that space to be our Job Center
then we can support our the rest of our
vision with having higher jobs so that
the people who live here may actually be
able to work here if we remove that
piece and where are we going to put all
these offices where are we going to put
all these jobs I don't think we're
talking about removing everything though
all areas still aggressive yeah I hear
you what I'm saying is that we're
talking about Pickering is possibly
being a more of a residential area and
I'm thinking maybe Pickering would be
better off as a commercial area which it
is like right now with offices instead
of residential mixed use I think it's
anything it's still both
and the whole area is our urban center
and it will have more jobs and more
retail and more housing than it has
before yeah I don't really love the idea
of thinking of a Job Center in Issaquah
I like to think of that as running
throughout the same way that I think
about our green necklace I don't really
love the idea of being concentrating the
concept of of jobs into one neighborhood
within the district and so especially
when we think about driving around kind
of the industrial park right now where
the school district wants to move in
where we have several big businesses in
our community and thinking about the
fact that we are going to be getting
some residential going in there it
really is a mix of things rather than
necessarily thinking of Pickering as an
industrial park I I hadn't really heard
that and I haven't seen that in the way
that we've been describing the
neighborhoods and I hear your what
you're saying I just think I'm looking
20-30 years down the road and I think
retail is going to make a major change
and so where are we going to have those
jobs because it's probably not going to
be retail that's that that's the point
of zoning for mixed-use we don't have to
decide that now you allow all uses but
there needs to be a caution that we
don't turn into a suburban residential
commuter community that's not what we
want to be needs to be a place where you
live work and play and I smiled because
some of you probably weren't even born
back when the Skyport was here and we
were promised the bill of goods for that
whole development that's there now that
it was going to become an office park
and become a job Center for Issaquah and
of course once they're granted their
permits to build it oh sorry the market
changed now we got to do ugly strippery'
tall retail with vast parking lots that
you can't even walk between stores in
and that's what we ended up with so we
got to do better than that and I do
think personally there's a distinction
between the north side of i-90 and the
south and I don't know specifically what
the Raleigh vision is for hila but I
suspect his vision there is probably
different than what's the vision for
Tippit's valley so
you can call it one district with
different neighborhoods or I prefer
personally to have two separate
neighborhoods one north one south at
least and maybe three I'm in favor of
having a b1 district and I think that
they that it would benefit a lot for
connectivity if there were ways to
overcome the barrier that is currently a
big barrier but from a vision standpoint
maybe there could be overpasses or
walkways or some way to safely get
across at various points because I think
the on the South part of the district
they would benefit from access to the
the park and in both ways so if you were
able to overcome that barrier I think it
would be beneficial and I think it's
beneficial to have it be one district to
sort of support that vision the water
fest III decided to come to us and say
we want to build our headquarters center
would that change his conversation
that's a lot of jobs and it's at the end
of a Nestea 3 light rail or what if what
if microsoft says we did finally outgrow
our redmond campus even after their
billion dollar expansion and as they had
planned to put 12 thousand jobs up in
Issaquah Highlands that again never
happened maybe in 30 years from now this
is a great location for a corporate
complex of some type whatever those
major businesses are I agree with you
retails going by the wayside and in 30
years where you're not going to have
shopping strips like that I don't know
that we're ready to make that decision
as to what will be there I think it's
aspirational for us to say we're gonna
have this great idea and put something
there so we can have a vision but
there's too many unknowns and we should
wait till st3 comes because I think once
sc3 comes that would become a very
viable place for offices like downtown
Bellevue I mean granted we don't want to
downtown
in terms of the high-rises but in terms
of the jobs I think would be a goldmine
for jobs market it's at the end of well
we wait to do anything in that area or
if we don't have any restrictions of
what we want we're not going to get
anything that we do want and you've got
to understand that that whole area is
the regional growth center that's where
all the high rises and we don't have to
build it out today no we don't we need
to have the zone capacity for it right
I'm gonna pass our seat requirements and
we don't have to worry about the
changing in the market either if we if
we want a certain thing in there and we
think it's good for the city and the
market goes crazy we just wait I mean
once you build it it's done exactly
that's my point and I don't think we're
ready to make the decision well but
we're not making the decision on the use
or anything I think that the question
here is is a one or two neighborhoods
north and south of i90 that's the only
question all the development can still
take place or will take place under the
zoning that's there
I completely agree the Victoria that
this is it's aspirational if we keep it
as two neighborhoods we're saying that
we're accepting the scar that i9 has
created in our city and we're gonna live
with that forever we make this one
neighborhood or one district we're
seeing our aspiration is to get rid of
that scar
someday lid the whole thing and create
one city center that we can have and I
would rather see that happen and leave
it as two separate visions I think
that's exactly the difference here is
you know so we've created a district in
that we we identified this as the
regional growth center right so that
happened and I think the question is is
is do you allow I 90 to be an edge or do
you say right now it's an edge and we're
trying to diminish the impact of that
edge
through time and through development and
city investment and maybe washed-out
investment investment you know likewise
if you are gonna spin-off hila or
Sammamish Park which you're doing is
also saying us are nine hundred becomes
an edge and and I think you know it's
it's it's at this point being very
deliberate on those transportation
facilities and whether their divisional
points or whether we're gonna try and
overcome them to create kind of singular
areas I think that's the conversation
here the use is you know the uses the
zoning is the zoning and I think what
we're talking about is you know as we
describe you know if we ultimately say
Pickering as a neighborhood and Gilman
or Tibbets Valley or whatever we want to
call the South one is a neighborhood
then then I would hope that because
they're both part of the core we're
talking about a mix of land uses we
already know that vertical mix used is
mandated on the south area south of i90
that was part of the the moratorium was
creating a zone that had mandatory
vertical mixed-use you know whether or
not residential ever makes it into
Pickering
I mean I'm optimistic that it is but
part of it is us saying we think that
having residences in high-density
residential near the Costco you know
because it is an employment hub for us I
mean you know and it will be for a long
time if we get another office
headquarters or large office developer
and they choose to locate there as well
you know it's probably gonna be because
Sound Transit serves that area it could
also be because there's retail and
residential right there
I mean the suburban office market is
pretty well dying just because most
office employees want to be in a more
walkable more mixed use area right and
so so part of this is is I think what
we're talking about is is this one or
two or ill or more it could be three I
mean I think we're talking about how
many well we'll later talk about where
the dividing line is but I think right
now we're trying to figure out how many
is
this is it 1 2 2 is at 3 it's at 6 a
consensus I'll back off on my discussion
about potentially 3 zones as long as Mel
gets Sound Transit to building so am I
correct
and with my verbage that that AJ had
proposed of saying one district with
multiple neighborhoods is that is that
it since obvious that's not the question
is that what you're asking yes
okay I'm a proponent of that you okay
how many has been I would also throw in
I wouldn't call it the regional
Grossinger yes I would love do we have a
chance to address those verbage of that
yes yes this would be fine so so I think
the question is is so how many how many
are we talking to neighborhoods well
first let's talk about regional growth
center okay our GC yeah is anybody a
proponent of that I know I'm not right I
am because I feel like you brand around
the neighborhood's not around every like
death downtown Seattle there's downtown
which is just downtown and then there's
the neighborhoods in downtown that have
an actual identity I think that you
could you might still identify with the
neighborhood but we could still have a
name that people would use for that
region I I think that if you call it the
regional growth center you're sort of
missing an opportunity to have something
that people would identify with and I
think that this sounds it's just I I
think that it's kind of a missed
opportunity to have it be called the
regional growth center when the other
districts have names where people can
really identify and say oh that's where
I live but I identify with confluence
park or something else and this nobody
would be like oh yeah I know that I live
in the regional center I think we need
to rename it and still allow district
identity to be the predominant way that
we think of the market Belltown and the
way we break up downtown Seattle we can
still do that same thing in this area
without calling it the RDC you buy a
Cadillac we all know it's a GM so needs
to have a different name but from a
legal standpoint we can still call it an
rgc regional growth center but we all
know that it's going to be a county line
right what if we what if we just call it
city center that's awesome I like that
they see regional growth center will
react in horror like why do we want to
become a regional growth center who said
that you know so it's that name that
attracts
but that let me so let me even though I
know everyone disagrees with me let me
try one more time I think that but I
think that's that's why regional grocer
is a good name because well that's what
it is it is a regional growth center and
the people that live there need to
understand that they live in a growth
center but what they what that implies
is downtown Bellevue or Amazon's
headquarters in downtown Seattle that's
what the vision is and what I'd like
people to understand is something some
name that connotes that yes we're going
to grow the quality of life and
livability for everyone who lives here
we're not going to just let ourselves
turn into downtown Bellevue that's
that's to me the importance of that name
so I will let you know that when we were
approved by the Puget Sound Regional
so when we were there at our meeting
getting approved you're patting us on
the back but saying that we really
needed to work on our marketing and
change the name so they really yeah most
are not named Regional Growth Center I
just want to say that I think we need to
change the name because what we see is
well mean what we really want to grow is
jobs because we as far as housing we've
gotten what we really want here and
we're going to have some more with this
with high-density
but what we really want to go is the
sustainability and the jobs and keeping
people working here and living here and
enjoying what we have I'm looking at the
name Regional Growth Center and in order
to get that mass transit there we have
to commit to have so much housing around
it right and so even though you want to
change the name which is fine it still
has to be regional growth center much a
branding discussion nada yeah yeah and I
heard city center I thought that had a
good ring to it Center is fantastic I
like something more unique to Issaquah
not not two but like it's a quad center
instead of just City which said guy any
city any city might look like any other
city
it's akua's unique you know and it says
that when we say it's a cross Center or
something
it's a cause not written then we're not
downtown Bellevue we're gonna do it our
way that is in match with the values the
culture the unique attractions that are
Issaquah so that's why
I like it both but I think this probably
should go to the community how about the
Valley Center or hey I thought that too
but then we also have East Valley and
some of them I will then you need to
rename East Valley and I consider Valley
and so I just thought it was little too
similar so what I came up with was hokey
I'll tell you in little flowery but I
came with chrysalis which basically
means development of growth but is a
little softer sounding name than the RG
see we don't have to decide on the name
tonight twelve I don't think that we
should leave him up in the air we should
have some consensus with all of this so
I we have the consensus that it should
be one neighborhood one district
district
how many neighborhoods
I'd say four neighborhoods I see to
think to to I'm liking to go for three
I'll give you minority opinion on that
rod all right so can we go to public
comment
who's gonna arm wrestle to be for Akane
so my vision of this is two
neighborhoods but what I want to see to
provide an overall breakage of all of
our roads barriers because we have more
than nine 19's or nine hundred we have
56 we have East Lake Sammamish Parkway
and we have Newport way all of those
barriers I would like to see a roads map
it goes over the top and then mandates
where there shall be crossings over the
entire central Issaquah area and that
way you wouldn't have to have that
district to break through i ninety or sr
nine hundred but it would also break
through the other road situations that
we have so I solved the problem
differently and then I think that the
feel of the two neighborhoods are going
to be very different I think Costco is
going to really really create the
character of the northern area and the
southern area is going to be more retail
people oriented and you have the Lake
Sammamish State Park which needs to be
an emphasis on the north which you don't
have to the south so I don't think you
can consider it as one I think four is
onerous so I personally landed up with
two and I think if Valley might be
just fine if you want to combine your
titles I don't think you can call it a
center because I think you're going to
come up against Old Town is the heart
right Old Town is really the center and
this is this is different than that so
and you don't think I'm missing anything
there thank you we gotta have a massive
lid over i-90 it's got to have all these
feeder buses from all those areas that
aren't even in the transit area or Sound
Transit areas got to come on i-90 and
dump people otherwise you didn't fill
the whole area with parking garages it's
just critical that we have that and
that's going to blend these areas
together by having that lid and the life
that'll come with them a major transit
center right there it's yeah it's 2-2
and it's yeah it's ansa sister so did
O'Connor's comments and their old days
comments and Victoria I don't think we
met before but thank you I like to
comment I think though that connectivity
between the communities is important
it's not just sectioning them off my
communities but it's regardless of
whether it's one two three or four or
the whole community we need to overcome
those boundaries so that needs to be
part and you look at more than just
washed out making that happen we need to
plan for that to happen so I'm still
concerned with going with just one
neighborhood because I think we're
losing part of the characters Eric
turistic of what people move to those
inputs for like going with just one
overall neighborhood and I don't want to
lose that so before we actually move on
I got a question for you Keith Hyatt's
what is the plan for hire
hila so the plan is so it's part of
rally's development agreement they are
you know they've already built two
hotels
Jarnell Scott office building in there
their next project is going to be I
think they're gonna try for another
office project next and then residential
will follow at some point so it's mixed
use its
you know the rally's vision for their
property is in sync with central
Issaquah so it's walkable it's mixed-use
its high density they they have a
similar vision as we do for the rest of
Central is quoi so their plan is to
actually make it very similar to Tibbets
Valley yes okay that's why I was
thinking it should be its own
neighborhood because I didn't know that
there was going to be mixed use and I
thought I was all going to be commercial
and all right okay yeah based on
questions two through five central his
akov will be comprised of so we left we
took out service we took out old route
ten we left in for now confluence so we
have confluence Western gateway we have
a north we have two neighborhoods in the
in the rgc or music wah Valley or
Central Valley or something and then we
have East Valley so I'm thinking two
three four five neighborhoods his
Western gateway out no six Western
gateway still in Western gateway be
taken out we can have that conversation
I didn't I was on the table it should be
taken out all right
it's just housing a question there's
still a lot left with the Gateway that
hasn't been resolved as far as the
bridge over i-94
[Music]
the road was not done so to take it out
you're taking out some of the leverage
to get funding to complete it and also
to be our gateway to Issaquah so I mean
I think it's a mistake that you haven't
corrected and you're gonna leave it on
corrected it functions very similar to
confluence it is a trend
out of central is the coop but therefore
it then makes sense to keep you need to
include it so you get the design and
transportation benefits that are in the
CIP even if you don't have the density
that you have in the core so how many
neighborhoods are East Valley are you
counting for East Valley I've got six
total but how many are in East Valley
alone I you're collecting all these are
different yes so so we haven't talked
about that alright so maybe we park this
question until after we've done the
districts right plus is that where we're
at yeah okay so this isn't question six
no it's not actually a 30 question soon
so question six is are the boundaries
right so and then I gave you guys it
gave you guys a question
and I think Ken hit it a little bit
earlier oops sorry
so as you get off Front Street on i-90
and we talked about the sinking kennel
and then there's about dealership I'm I
am much more inclined to say service
back in here even though I think Ken
sees it as a potential gateway I don't I
see it actually as a pocket that is has
a very different purpose for me as
economic development but these areas
right here out on whether you call that
Front Street or East Lake Sam they're
very visible and so back to a similar
come luhan's
the value of being in central Issaquah
is you have the standards that relate to
pedestrian orientation to walkability so
for example you know carlson kennel
property where did my mouse go there it
is so you know it sits right here they
just did the stream relocation and
they've cleared it off and it's like now
you can see the property go okay wow
there's actually kind of a decent sized
piece of property there you know the
question is is if if that is not in
central Issaquah the typical sub
urban development of that property would
be the building would be at the back and
the parking lot would be out front and
you know there may or may not be a
sidewalk that connects to the door and
then if you on the contrary if you did
it as a central project you know the
building would be up at the street it
would have that activity piece and so so
I'm just bringing that up as one thing
for y'all to think about because if we
take this out
the standards under IMC are very
different than they are under central if
we poach out East Valley to grab it that
would be something I would actually ask
you guys to consider then you would go
to about 230th would be your West you're
eastern border rather than 30th right
here Eastern Eastern border would be to
30th eastern border not be like fall
City Road not well fall city roads this
one okay so you helped how much further
you wanted to go out two to three so I'm
talking about these parcels right here
Thanks that's the auto body shop it's
2:30 okay that's the auto body shop area
yeah it's just it doesn't wrap all the
way you know when we drove all the way
back and there was rubies and the detail
shop that was under construction and the
RV park not any of that I think all
that's kind of tucked back behind it's
really just the vacant kennel property
and then the boat storage place it's
basically all front faces the frontage
of stream Front Street or eats like Sam
I'm not sure where it changes I like
this idea of taking out service but
extending that border because it really
is I mean we talked about it as a
gateway only because after this stream
relocation project it's not our best
face and we'd like it to be a better
face I think less than we want it to be
a neighborhood like Blake Western
gateway so I'm a proponent of changing
that border
I'm down with it yeah okay and the other
the other thing you guys talked about
earlier was Gillman village so right now
that's this that's this little kind of
doorstep so right now I've got it in
East Village only because it's zoned the
same as all the rest of the East Village
but remember we definitely ancient
follow the vision remember I'm lazy so I
think it's a conversation we need to
have so I think that the character have
been small low-density quirky but still
very walkable I think Gillman Village
absolutely fits the vision of confluence
and not East about the East Valley and
then if that means that it needs to be
then the zone it needs to be changed so
that it fits confluence what are the
pros I think because if you look at what
I mean one of the key measures of
success for East Valley is to maintain
the character of Gillen village so
number four that then becomes a key
implementation for confluence and then
we need to be very sure as it's been
repeatedly mentioned upon the comment
that our actual zoning rules are
structured in a way that actually help
maintain Gillman village and not have it
get torn down 20 years so my guess is
with you the the folks that live in the
confluence neighborhood now have more of
an association with Gillman village then
say Oh Depot or the storage unit that's
going in across the street I mean think
about that line of Gillman it's an easy
it's an easy way even just looking at
that that small neighborhood I mean
they're effectively neighbors to each
other when you think about kind of that
oh gosh the the future storage unit
going in already has a different feel so
from that measure I would agree about
adding it to confluence but does that
actually change the zoning right now I
don't think it does what I think it does
is it presents a future conversation
when we talk about changing
for the confluence area but I don't know
that it actually does anything right now
to protect Gillman village so I just
want to make it be specific that I think
it again this goes to vision and not
code I agree with the idea of pulling
Gillman village into confluence but I
think we should take a look at that area
where Gillman Boulevard is and that
really needs to be part of that
conversation of is the mixed-use density
all of that going to just stick on the
eastern side or is that going to extend
down Gillman village because we really
haven't had a good community
conversation about what Gillan villages
or what Gillman Boulevard is going to
become and so depending on the answer to
that is does that belong in the regional
growth center or an extension of East
Valley where it doesn't really fit but
hey it's where we can put it yeah I
think that's that's a separate
conversation I mean you take the little
little notch and then give it the
confluence but then what's left along
the south of 90 does that belong and the
growth Center versus East Valley that's
a separate question I right so if you
you know if you know character-wise and
what we're trying to do with gilman
village it definitely feels more like
confluence when you look at this piece
over here where atlases and the Kentucky
Fried Chicken you know it's it's really
when you think about transitions you
know you don't want to transition your
lowest to your highest right in theory
there should be a step in between which
is what kind of East Valley is to some
extent you know so I like the fact that
there's this piece of purple on the
south side of Gilman right here because
I think it's a good kind of buffer in
between the core and confluence but
clearly once you get to the east side of
the creek
this is gilman village and we're talking
about it staying a much smaller level so
so the question is do you have this
little area here the
on the south side of Gillman but the
rest of it being in confluence I don't
know it starts you using the river as
the dividing point River creepy sorry I
like the concept that you're talking
about of this of this merging between
going from confluence to what right now
is the rgc but it doesn't feel like East
Valley to me it feels like rgc when
you're there and when thinking about the
development that is even just currently
going on it feels like RG sees me so to
me it makes sense to add the use that
Creek we add Gillman into confluence and
we have Gillman be our dividing line for
East Valley but because you could go
back to having that as a neighborhood
all Gilman but make it a part of the
growth Center because like because I
think you want we want to make sure
Gilman as you as you drive from 17th to
the Front Street is it's just a single
continuous corridor
so I thought you lost me AJ so so Gilman
the boulevard not Gilman the old
district yes so I was saying so have it
so have it be a part of the rgc district
but then kind of go back to on the south
side of 90 you have two neighborhoods
Timbits valeting gilman to allow for
kind of the the step down as you move
eastward along gilman the boulevard you
talking about just keeping the street in
the sea in the regional growth Center in
the rgc and no properties actually he's
saying make that area part of the rgc
district but then give it its own
neighborhood name yes what's the benefit
what's the benefit to your argument I
don't know I think it just goes back to
right I think I
I think I agree that it's not it doesn't
really feel like he's Valley I don't
know
so Keith yeah what's the pros and cons
of this so well so part of it is the
more we dissect this I actually loved
when we did this and it was like it
turned and went from ten to four because
then it was like he's a groomer I'm lazy
and and then it was like I only had to
do four descriptions of what these areas
were gonna be so the more we dissect it
into individual pieces you know each of
those have to stand on their own right
so if you so let's say we take this
piece of confluence or this the Gillman
village and we put it in confluence
right so now we have this piece of
purple down here south of the freeway
and I agree that that feels very
different than the Fred Meijer shopping
center and up by Microsoft and BMC it's
different okay so maybe this becomes the
Gillman neighborhood down here not
including Gillman village but maybe you
would I don't know we need to talk about
that you know and then what is what is
it really and and does it have its own
sense of place that's distinguishable
and deserves distinguishment from the
rest or does that then become part of
confluence and you just kind of push it
to the freeway so part of it is I don't
mind demising this as many times as you
guys feel it should be demised but every
time we demise it each area needs to
have its own character yeah I see what
you're saying I and I agree we still
want to try to stick to four districts
yeah because it's Gillman village owned
by the same person right that so if you
take it into the Regional Growth and
somebody offers money it could be
totally redeveloped totally yeah so
that's yeah
something possibility right area you you
put it in you know the codes and that
kind of stuff would but would change it
so if you want to try and enhance her to
keep but I would think confluence would
be the better place if you really don't
care then put it in the regional growth
it's prime real estate so from an
economic standpoint I think being part
of the regional growth center until we
get a better name I think would be smart
okay this is this is what I want to
propose because I think we're starting
to get a little confused right now we
have this little puzzle piece coming off
of the rgc into East Valley if you
follow up the creek yep I think that
lines to be extended along the creeks so
that that tiny rectangle of purple right
now it becomes regional growth center we
stop with the Creek and that little
triangle which is actually Gillman
village if you please correct me if I'm
wrong becomes part of confluence we've
already moved that other line or East
Valley to include what we're saying is
the eastern corridor a little bit
correct so so joy you take the
southeastern leg of rgc you'd now move
it to the creek yeah so atlas goes in
and so does which so the storage unit
and in medical office yeah and so then
this little stepstool is part of
confluence and then we have this piece
of East Valley which extends south of
the freeway
why wouldn't we make from Gilman 290
that hold sectional purple why wouldn't
we make that part of the regional growth
center this area here that's kind of the
tire stores and stuff yeah with an
exception with an exception of the
little purple area off on the right hand
side of Front Street everything left to
Front Street to the growth Center would
become part of the regional growth
center and for that little section
that's gilman village you could do some
special though
there or moving into confluence but I'm
fine keeping just add that little sliver
right nestled on Front Street because
remember that because at that point
that's still part of your East Valley
axis and remember too that we're trying
to say like I'm sorry I mean touch off
me anytime that we're trying to say well
what are the fields of these
neighborhoods okay so we're still
keeping to the core of these four
districts but we're saying what does
East Valley feel like and my proposal is
to say that the area of Atlas that
little piece you know to the creek
doesn't feel like East Valley to me
however when we talk about this blending
and not having the 90 be effectively a
straight cut through our community that
area where you think of the gas station
in the Tire Center that feels more East
Valley to me that feels more in line as
the neighborhood exists now would it be
better operationally if that changed and
became part of the regional growth
center and grew with the regional growth
center no I think it's line having a
north/south so part of so okay I don't
want to go there we're trying to talk
about these blending right now there's a
reason that we're saying you know we've
we've elected to say confluence stays in
central Issaquah however it's its own
identity and so I'm trying to not have
East Valley be cut by the by the 90 and
so to me do they have to be hard and
fast lines can you kind of have like a
vague transition area because because
these are from from vision map I'm
thinking like the necklace you you
intentionally have some of the lines be
vague and not following actual things
can we do the same thing here and then
just not specify that it's a specific
road or Creek but just kind of have it
be a bit vague dividing point between
the two districts then unhelpful it's
unhelpful okay so we're trying to get
more predictability right vague lines
lead to no I'm I'm in this district
right I mean we don't want to do that
okay all right
I like Joy's idea I don't know no I
don't know if anybody else wants to
weigh in of moving this rgc line over to
the creek
and then I think there was general
perspective of adding Gillman village to
confluence okay good compromise okay
let's go with that public are you gonna
want to comment on that Keith I go Oh
quick question for East Valley
yeah the high in Fred Meyer yes why is
that part of the CIP that's unbuildable
land it's actually so it's it it is
buildable you know it's a cliff it's
it's it's it's created fill material
[Music]
there's someone looking at potentially
doing something there now where they
were before the moratorium I don't know
if they're still around we'll see well
if if and when the moratorium gets
lifted I cannot answer why that's part
of central Issaquah I would defer to my
long-range planners to answer that
question when we were developing the
plan it was going to be used for
affordable housing the affordable
housing provider owned it and so we put
it in there because we knew we were
gonna have trouble meeting our
affordable housing targets so we thought
that would be a bonus to have a property
owner and a property already in there
and then it was sold so that ended our
great aspiration of already having pre
ready affordable housing in central can
we remove it and what's the implication
I mean would it make any difference to
remember because I don't think it should
be built we can't so so it's private
property and as property rights someone
who owns it can build on it to the
standards that are allowed the only way
that the city can stop someone from
building on it is to purchase it so in
this that doesn't seem like that's in
the plan right now so I need I just want
you to be aware that put leaving it in
central Issaquah taking it out does not
change the fact that somebody could
build on that hill
as long as they can follow the rules
that are in place to do so and if
they're gonna build on it I'd rather
have them build something that fit CIP
standards so here's so I can I can go we
can go ahead and talk about this a bit
so under under the original plan that
came in was for a hotel the hotel
developer wanted to maximize the views
so they put that hotel as high up on
that hillside as possible and had a
really kind of nasty driveway that wound
its way up to their building and because
it was in central Issaquah we said you
cannot put it floating up the hillside
it actually has to be on black nugget
road so they were then gonna cut a big
chunk out of that wall that's behind
Fred Meyer and put that hotel so that
the front door was on black nugget road
because that's what the standards would
say so rather than a tall building up on
the side of the hill it was at least
down at the road grade and what's
happened or what's happening in the
current architectural standards and
urban design manual is the council have
been working with staff to add some
additional design guidelines
specifically for this hillside so but
having said all of that if you guys
think it should not be in central
Issaquah and should be regulated by
Issaquah municipal code and not Central
Issaquah standards that you guys can do
that so what you're saying is it would
by taking an out of CIP with loosen'd
standards it would give I think the
developer maybe less density but it
would give them more flexibility to
build differently on that property
okay so let's we're gonna get to public
comment a second I know you got a lot to
say about that so we have right now two
changes to the boundaries we're adding
we're puching out east valley to grab
the front street frontage 3o gilman
village and RG c so any other changes to
I see I see isn't that piece you see you
to make a very short concise college as
it was to summarized that those pieces
of the icy zone that talked a little
earlier just added to the list right any
spelling right right okay anything else
before we open this up for public
comment all right Steve so I agree with
given voyage to confluence I wanted to
add that I like RPC because I think it's
truth in advertising that's called what
it actually is and let's think that's
that we're going to put our development
I still like for neighborhood so and one
make sure that gets maintained give them
involve our Boulevard I agreed that for
the conversations needed I'd like to see
the edible trail maintained that doesn't
get talked about as much it's kind of
some of it was before my time I know
with all the growth I just want make
sure that it's mentioned thanks
I have no problem with any of it but I
do have a problem with the jagged edge
on the hillside I think we need the
grading standards changed for all
hillsides in town and a hillside overlay
but I think adding the density that to
this parcel makes it developable without
the additional density I think the cost
would for a long time outstrip its
ability to be anything and hopefully in
that point in time the city could buy it
because it is one belligerent parcel
that would be better off in public
ownership than in private development in
visually and access so I would take it
out of the central plan I do wonder
about all the other jaggedy edges up to
the top and why they were there and if
they can be removed or smooth into
something that that seems more likely I
don't understand why the line is drawn
that way in the north east corner but
maybe that's a different conversation
David that that wall is so ugly right
now and it's a city property as my
understanding yes we own the wall Thank
You King County and it's got you know it
does get complicated in that area I'm
not as doesn't bother me as much as it
does some to have something go on that
at part of Mercer Island that's the all
the i-90 was put in a ditch on Mercer
Island and the clay that came off there
that's what the V Z property there is
all filled with clay and they feel that
other places it's got a legacy all over
Eastern King County where they dump that
clay in problems and Costco ran into it
at their new store and Redman in fact
but we've got it there on that hillside
so they over excavated then they slapped
Mercer Island on top of its Mercer
Island dirt ban the behind the wall
I believe yeah it suburban dirt all
right all right so this is before we
dive into the individual neighborhoods
or districts I wanted some feedback on
the structure so if we have an overall
structural deficiency let's talk about
that now so what we did is we we tried
to describe what it was today we tried
to describe what we thought it would be
in the future so the outcomes were maybe
some of the most confusing pieces in a
way it was intended to be similar to I
think what Lindsay suggested which was
you know what do you need to what's
missing what what do you need to get to
have happen to actually get to your
success and so we can talk about that
and that one may be the one we'd spend
them
time talking about and then city
implementing actions and then measures
of success so so overall is was this an
okay structure to describe each of the
districts I don't know if this would be
part of the measures of success but I
think there should be breaks Falls and
pressures so if for instance let's say
jobs if jobs don't get to a certain
point we don't make that goal then
nothing gets built so we can't do that
so we can't we can't we can't put a
neighborhood or a district under
moratorium because the property owners
aren't doing what we want them to do I
mean I think you'd have to the way you'd
have to do that Ron is you'd have to
basically rezone like the balance of the
property instead of for mixed-use for
just like commercial I mean if we like
let's say we we saw let's say that we
decided that you know the Tibbets Valley
neighborhood is should be mixed use and
the only thing that was being built was
residential there was no office
happening the only way that you could I
think changed the the disposition of
that would be to take those remaining
properties and change the zoning from
what's allowed now which is a mix of
uses to just commercial you could do
that that's pretty intense to be that
prescriptive with zoning but we could
well it's not exactly what I was
referring to when I say brakes and have
triggers we're instance let's say level
of service at intersections if we start
having failed level of services or key
intersections then that has to be
improved before we could move forward
with further development if jobs aren't
coming too
Issaquah and we have developers wanting
to build only residential then we can't
build anymore because you don't have the
jobs we're not meeting or other target
so what we end up with is 13,000
potential more units and no jobs right
so so the only way so from a concurrency
standpoint traffic and traffic impact
fees that's all set right and so that
piece is not gonna be part of the
equation that you would ultimately
change land use over if if though you
know you got to a point so right now
there's an obligation under central
Issaquah that we do monitoring and
provide reports out every three years
that's how we got to where we kind of
are right now if you got to a point
where you saw that a neighborhood was
not building commercial you then take
two approaches you could either figure
out an incentive program to get the
commercial if we're out of whack with
our job expectation or you'd have to
rezone to allow only commercial so
that's that's the that's the action the
city could take to correct something
like that if that imbalance was if the
market was providing that imbalance
there shouldn't that be part of our
vision well it's already part of the
toolbox that the city has in terms of so
we have jobs and housing targets now for
central Issaquah and the regional growth
center right and my point is there's
nothing articulating that we need to hit
those targets okay so they're
aspirational but if we want to build as
community and we want a strong vibrant
community we need those jobs so and we
need the level of service at key
intersections so as a community before
we can move forward and allow growth
to be controlled and braked by making
sure that level service that key
intersections are able to handle the
capacity and that there are jobs here
and we're not getting it and have
controls that will bring it here and
slow everything down until we can get
those thresholds right so our target is
80% jobs let's say based on the amount
of building that we have we can't move
forward until we get those jobs so I
just there are a couple of things on a
creek here one is that our targets
they're not meant for us to hit it those
are a floor not a ceiling so we are
required to accommodate them but not to
actually make sure that that happens
okay so with both housing in with jobs
and it just it sounds like you're
concerned that we're not that we haven't
hit that 20,000 number but that's ok as
long as we accommodate for it according
to the state the other thing I went back
and I looked at the numbers and as of
2014 we had gotten just over six
thousand and three hundred jobs which
means that we've hit about 32 percent of
our jobs target for 2030 one that's come
up a couple of times I wanted to mention
that okay so our we're at 30% for 2030
one but our residential capacity is
already at twenty thirty one so where
we're failing it's almost there
not quite so right now we're outgrowing
our jobs capability but one of the
reasons we did this too is we were
looking for a jobs housing balance we
needed that housing to come in and for
the existing jobs that we had here so so
part of it is well let's say that we all
said we start getting all this
commercial and we had all these jobs
coming here but we had no residential so
then we would have to slow the jobs
piece now I'm just saying we need to
have measures control measures to
preview so we have a balanced solution
so we don't end up with where we're at
today so so the right now I guess to
answer your question I think you're
right so right now there's there's
monitoring that we do relate it to
central Issaquah we do a dashboard
although we're gonna have to talk about
who does the dashboard next year and
then you know we do our monitoring and
and at some point you know the council
the council and staff are are starting
to have actually with the end of the
development agreement for the islands
having really good conversations about
jobs and housing and expectations and
you know that balance of that sweet spot
I don't know like I called it balance
I'm gonna say there's a sweet spot you
know we are you know we are a
second-tier suburb of Seattle that's
never gonna change right and so even
though you know people right now choose
to live out here because of environment
because of great school district because
of easy commute to the Central City
those things drive a lot of what this
city has been for the past you know 50
60 70 years what's gonna what will
change as traffic gets worse and this is
my perspective you don't have to agree
with it is that commute from Issaquah to
Seattle will become less doable for some
people that will then drive more jobs in
this city as CEOs decide you know what I
live here my family's here because my
kids go to school here and I don't want
to sit in traffic for a half hour and
the Train still 20 years away so guess
what I'm gonna build my office expansion
rather than in Soto I'm gonna build it
here and the market will correct that so
but that but it's gonna swing right so
that's my belief but I believe that
market forces do actually kind of
balance themselves out over time if we
continue to find reasonable
transportation solutions this could very
well stay a bedroom community primarily
with very you know select office
opportunities like Costco's headquarters
like SanMar
Swedish like you know and we have this
list and my hope and part of my job in
my alter-ego is to try and build that
employment base so that our jobs housing
fulcrum is better balanced you know
there's tons of scholarly reports about
how housing jobs balance and the belief
that there's some way that you can get
everybody to live and work in your
community doesn't exist even in central
cities because what happens is maybe one
spouse works in the city but the other
one commutes to a job somewhere else so
the average whether you're in a central
city or in a suburb it's 13 miles it's
the same so but that doesn't mean we
shouldn't be worried about jobs and
housing we want to have both
opportunities within our community so
that there are opportunities for people
to live and play and work all in
Issaquah because that takes some of
those cars off the roads right so I'm I
guess I'm not trying to dismiss your
concern it's a real one but we don't
have a measure that says you know what
if our housing to job ratio ends up at
four to one now the sudden we have to go
and rezone the rest of the rgc to
commercial only that decision has not
been made yet I don't think that
decisions can be made as part of what
we're doing here with visions I think
it's an important piece to talk about
House housing and jobs balance and and
and have them ideally work step
hand-in-hand you know and this is right
now we've got a bunch of apartments
being built
we've got Costco building office space
you know so right now it's kind of
working I'm not too concerned at the
moment but we could go through a drought
of where either there's no new housing
which is kind of where we started with
you know we want housing on the valley
floor or we could get you know a bunch
of new jobs and say wow how do we now
incent more housing here I mean it's a
it's a continuum of conversation I don't
think there's clear lines where you say
if you get to this spot you've got a
problem and then
to get me give you a piece of mind right
this is a living document our vision is
mixed you servin and we'll come back and
refresh this document every two five
eight years or whatever so they will
there will be natural mechanisms a part
of the process to check in and then
update everything that doesn't need to
be codified in it I agree with you I
just think that from a visionary
standpoint we should have that
discussion about jobs and levels of
service even though the they're not
streets are not really part of the
vision I think having the level of
service of the streets is important
because we don't want to live in a
community which is just clogged right if
we outgrow the streets infrastructure
and we're not putting the money into the
infrastructure to get us moving around
the city we don't want to live here
right and this is a bedroom community
right now it is so we can get the jobs
here so I want to jump back to these
five that are on the screen so I think
the today statement is clear I think the
future statement is fairly clear as far
as a small here's what we think it
should be but misses the details that I
think council was looking for which are
things like development agreements in
some cases give a lot of specifics about
what this is going to be and so I think
we need to specifically mention and link
to the development agreements and pull
out some of the unique characteristics
so I think that would be kind of in that
future statement I think also the future
would really benefit from
you know those garbled d maps that you
guys created that have the you know
mobility here and okay sorry
you know what it's over I know just the
idea of a visionary map that says we're
going to do more here we're going to
create more mobility in this area I
think that would be an additional visual
plan yes a visual plan there you go the
outcome area I just really don't like
that I I don't I think it's too much of
that planning ideals as Mary Lou said
and then I think having sample photos
that could be taken out of either the
CIP as we're done with the previous ones
or taken out of the development
agreement would be a really good idea
and then other details like sound
transit stuff and how that's going to
adjust what this area looks like I think
that goes into the what's missing what
do we need to accommodate over this
visionary period I have a hard time with
outcome because for me it feels a little
bit number-two future it feels a little
bit of for of how do we implement it so
I'm a little left clear on outcome as a
category and I think it's interesting to
have a conversation about measures of
success I think something that was
brought up was you know the fact that we
have a lack of a grocery store in Old
Town is it's a big deal and the fact
that the jacksons is now supplementing
that well appreciated is not necessarily
what I think we want that neighborhood
to look like so to me measures of
success is actually a bigger discussion
that may not be for tonight but talking
about what do we what do we actually see
and still need in these neighborhoods
and what do we measure as
about you like for instance confluence
being able to stay confluence rather
than just having that Creek coming in
when we talk about the valuing future
middle school walkability for residents
things like that so I think measures of
success really are defined by their
neighborhoods and that it's a larger
discussion again kind of you know that I
broke apart for two different
neighborhoods just there that's
obviously something we could do for
every neighborhood and evaluate where do
we want to be so to me number three is
and number five you're kind of we're a
little closer on the unclear and
everything else I think we're kind of
closer on the clear that I like the way
that the outcomes are presented but to
me they felt much more like objectives
so this is this is what we want to well
so there's the future statement which is
kind of the vision but then there's also
these more detailed objectives and then
there's the measures of how do we how do
we qualify if we've met that objective
or to what degree we've met that
objective so I would use I would suggest
using that word for outcome and then
actions I think are are good and
specific in a lot of places maybe some
could be a little fine tunes but I think
that it's a really good section to have
there and I also really liked the
measures of success although some of
them I think are kind of they're more
directions so we want to move in this
direction of having a safer crossing for
example and that then feels like an
objective and then to have a measure of
success where you can say like yes we
are
something something where you can
actually say yes we've met this
objective so there's a little bit of
overlap there but I think that clarity
of separating the objectives from the
measures of success would be a good fine
tuning there so
yeah okay so so the construct for me was
so clearly one and two are clear right
so as you as you migrate down into three
three you know three and four in my mind
were this split between private sector
and public sector right so the outcome
of this neighborhood will be these
things if they're written clear enough
you can then have a developer have to
comply with those when they come through
with their project so it gives both the
city and the Development Commission if
it goes through development commission
they are akin to policies policy
direction to say like you will be you
know you will recognize the
compatibility and I'm making this stuff
up I could just turn to a page which
would be easier compatibility of
adjacent natural areas right and so
there's there's an outcome there that
we're after it's not a city it's not
that the city's doing that we're not
buying a property and providing a public
access way it's if you're developing
your property next to a wetland or next
to you know a riparian corridor that you
will provide you know access to that
that was the intent and it didn't time I
don't think I pulled it off but the
intent was and what what and because I'm
a code person you know and I'm the one
who ends up dealing with developers who
say you know you can't make me do this
if we're clear in these things you know
residents feel connected with nature
I can I can say to a developer how did
you accomplish that right and you can
say well I provided gazebo here next to
the wetland and they say okay maybe
that's good enough right
so it's not prescriptive it's not you
have to do this it's you have to achieve
some sort of a you know whether it's an
outcome
are an objective don't know that III
have a perspective my English is
probably not good enough to know if
which term is the right term but that's
what I was going for and that clearly
didn't hit the mark cuz Lindsey's like
ed doesn't work for me so I am
completely and I think we are all
completely open to suggestions that
y'all might have as it relates to
specifically number three and how maybe
that can be better structured but the
intent is I think because as you look at
the pieces of this and how it's going to
work I want a piece that I can get
developers to do the things that we're
wanting them to do can you relate an
outcome to a specific code or policy
that may be a way to do that you can
leave more general language in these
outcomes and then say refer to code
such-and-such paragraph a subparagraph
one because that's a way you can then
enforce it because if you if I'm a
developer and you say how are you
connecting to nature I'd say I'd put
windows in my building so people can
look out and see the sky I mean and you
can't make them do any more than that
then that's the trouble with these
things like that it's got to be
regulated and tight so I think if the
policy is clear enough you can and so
the problem is you're right can if all
it says you know I guess I think I think
that if someone says the way I achieved
getting connected connection with nature
is I put windows on the south side of my
buildings I would say you know what
that's not good enough and and and we
might have to fight that out but but
part of it is so the rules the rules are
where you know it's black and white and
I think so the regulations you know if
you're next to a wetland and we feel
like you need to put a public trail
there then we say you'd have to do that
but there's going to be times when it's
like alright there's maybe a few
different ways that you can achieve kind
of what
after which is but where this uh example
would be Atlas where the whole intent
was that was a key connecting quarter of
the green necklace and we didn't achieve
that with Atlas we we blew it and I'm
not blaming anybody I'm just again
saying we got to do better we can't let
that happen
and whether that was objectives codes
policies outcomes whatever it was it
just didn't happen the way it needed to
at Atlas that's a really missed key
opportunity that was key to the whole
green necklace I think we're learning
and that the reason that that happened
is that it codes for not in force I
think that what Keith is getting at is
there will be hopefully the overlays
that Connie wants and I think reading
the comments that we got online I think
everybody was on the same page that you
have to implement these things and I
think that's gonna be done hopefully
right I have one suggestion for so I I
appreciate that you separated out or
that you explain the separation between
the public and private part or the you
know because I didn't pick up on that
reading it but now I sort of see it more
I think though that I'm then confused
why the outcomes are are in these
distinctive livable connected
sustainable boxes but it doesn't follow
through to the city and to the measures
of success and maybe one way to also
strengthen the
action would be to just sort of have it
follow through so you would have you
could have more of a matrix because then
you could have your your outcomes for
the distinctive livable and then have
your city actions for also distinctive
liveable liveable etc and then also your
measures of success sort of following
down because then you could link make
make linkages a little better okay so I
think the future statement is good
conceptually I think it doesn't get into
all of the details that council was
looking for and maybe that's
unreasonable to have all of that maybe
some of it is contained other areas of
the central Isikoff plan like the
mobility and future roads and trails and
connectedness and things like that I
don't know exactly how to connect those
but I think there's an expectation that
there are more details from the
development agreements from those types
of detailed maps so I don't know how to
connect it but I feel like it needs to
be there somehow I don't disagree I'm
not sure how far to go down the rabbit
hole because you don't want the visions
to be four hundred pages long right
because then they don't they aren't
visions so let me think about that and
see if we can populate some more details
might be useful to win presenting this
to Council to include it and you know
mention seven pages down there's this
map and this one that if that connected
feel I like having the shorter future
statements personally because I think
that then you get into the
comes their more specific and there have
these bullets and then you could if you
especially if you strengthen the
connection to the city and then the
measures of success I think that's where
you get into the more details I
personally like the concise today future
and then a bunch of details yeah I think
it's really important to keep it on one
page we just got to figure out how to
how to do that but to keep the district
don't want a struggle to keep it on
there know it's hard but but but it
forces it forces us to figure out how to
be how to be concise I like to make a
comment I think almost before we close
here we all struggle with expressing our
visions with us projects and I think
from staff have done a great job I think
the task force has done a great job the
commissioners have certainly put a lot
of effort into doing our best to
understand this the reality is this is
we're talking about hundreds of millions
of dollars that are going to be coming
into Issaquah for all this development
we don't get it right it's gonna be a
mess I think for a price a reasonable
price it would be wise and prudent to
have an outside organization come in and
help us make this vision help us
materialize our thoughts into actionable
items and a help us build a vision
rather than having us struggle through
this exercise in trying to put what we
think is the right thing on on this
document without having people who this
is what they do for a living
they have PhDs and and urban planning
where they actually and no offense to
staff because I know you guys do an
awful lot of work here
but I think the reality is when we're
talking about this there's so many
things that go into this and we're a
small town and we're growing so fast and
I think we're we need additional
assistance so I'm I would rather spend
that money myself visions are well and
good we could spend hours refining the
visions but they're meaningless if there
isn't the backup codes and policies of
regs to make them real and I know staff
is too busy and if we need to pay
somebody to come in and help staff write
those and get them done quickly that's
where the money you get more bang for
your buck and we get visions that are
implemented then if you got the backup
to make people do what we want them to
do and we got to get to a point people
need to understand that it's akua's such
a desirable place that we can pick and
choose who we want and if someone comes
in and doesn't want to do what we want
on that little piece of property get out
of here then we'll wait for the next
person to come along in 30 years there's
far more demand than we will have
capacity to absorb in this town just the
other day on Facebook there was a string
of comments about the 15 worst cities in
Washington which then prompted
discussion about what are the best
cities in Washington guess who the
thread was about Issaquah we are
recognized as the best city in
Washington so we don't need to accept
just whatever comes in the door and
think we need that growth we need that
development no we don't we need what's
good for the people of this city and if
we have to wait if but the key to get in
it you gotta have the backup codes and
policies in place to make what we want
happen otherwise we're gonna get more
atlases and gateways and I'm sorry but I
disagree with the concept that we need
to be spending what
realistically be 60 $80,000 to have a
firm come in and do exactly what our
qualified staff are our citizens who
live in the community are working
together to achieve I think is a much
better outcome than trying to outsource
a firm telling us what our vision is I
think what we're doing in and the work
tonight and it's far preferable to that
idea so I don't support that at all
let's keep that in mind that that's so
I'm going to ask the public if they have
comments on structure and then I think
we're going to and let's unless you guys
are all my coffee's empty unless you
guys are all a lot more into this than
it looks like you are my suggestion
would be where we're down to now is
taking those districts and having you
guys send your suggestions on edits to
those and I would have you just email
those in so what I would do then is
synthesize your comments on the
districts only the rest of it I think
I've got pages of notes on the story on
the structure you know the boundary
changes I think we got through an awful
lot of stuff tonight I think that now
down to the specifics on each district
you know I'm happy for you guys to email
me comments and if you want to proceed
with that otherwise if if we're gonna go
through those four I'm gonna ask
somebody to copy run for preview oh can
you can you just talk them through we've
waited all night
let's wait sorry
so public comment on just the structure
of each district I won and I'm not
comfortable leaving it without some
direction as to where the neighborhood
visions are going to go so I would like
some language saying that for example we
are going to create a specific code
package for each neighborhood that will
be applied to that neighborhood at some
point in time even a paragraph saying
what the next connective tissue is going
to be to code and went because we're
basically redoing yes we have the vision
and I don't know when the code will
follow through and I want some pathway
that is sensible to let Development
Commission be able to implement and
staff to be able to look at it in a
neighborhood by neighborhood basis so I
just want a little bit of what's the
process once we look at this and I don't
think that's in in the central Issaquah
plan or SIDS anywhere so every year we
go through the what things are on the
docket for you guys to do that would be
a nice little addition to put on there
so that you have a a date that you're
supposed to have it done by I'm looking
at my content staff that are all sitting
there like okay no I disagree I was
looking for implementation of that
thought into some sort of memory that
we'll all have more than the next 30
minutes David gets going more to Ken's
comments
whenever the moratorium is over if we
don't have the codes and the policies
there I'm afraid what we'll get and my
biggest concern right now
and just to comment on both those pieces
because it connects to Jones to before
Steve goes is I don't disagree I want to
I want to I want to try and get one task
over the goal line before we saddle it
with another big piece because that's a
big piece right and I think that not
that that's not important but what we
were tasked with right now is to update
the visions and I think that when you
look at where we started and what we've
got now I mean I think it's hugely
different but that's me so Steve I did
all the comments I've heard before code
code code otherwise it's not going to
happen to it so I don't number one I
don't know that today seems still
unclear as far as verbage that talks
more than just Story number three I
agree with Ron's comment there needs to
be some trigger mechanism that says
whether or not we're getting what we get
in and we can change at some point so
that's still unclear to me number five
is still unclear to me as far as
measures of success are we getting what
we want I think we're good at measuring
economic development I don't think we're
good at measuring a green necklace or
riparian corridors or wildlife corridors
or anything else that needs to be built
into not just the story but again to the
code of where we are because I think the
more that I've gotten myself involved I
know there are a lot of smart citizens
that volunteer like all of you and make
what we want to be but I don't think
we're getting that I think that's key
making that happen be able to measure
that success if we also need some
outside expertise to pick our brains
better to make sure we're getting that
verbage and the wording
I'm okay with that that we need to be
able to measure the code we have in
place okay so for each of the districts
you guys gonna be super let down because
I didn't really it's like just okay what
do you want to change about Western
gateway I hope I didn't unpack it more
than that so for each of them I figured
we would just get into an overall
conversation about each district which
like I said I am happy to do via
comments through email if you all would
rather do that and get a better night so
we ended the meeting last time we ended
it at 9:30 and I said we were ending it
early at 9:30 last time because I wanted
you all to be prepared to stay later
tonight and you said okay so I'm
uncomfortable with having you just email
okay you want to get comfortable that
because one simulates somebody else's
simulates somebody else and and I think
we're at a point in time that we really
need to do that so either we have
another meeting which we don't have time
to do or we spend a little bit of time
with less comments and discussion but
you know specifics or
so since we're not all looking at old
full town sub-area playing on the 14th
is there an agenda for the 14th if we
didn't finish tonight then council
doesn't get this before the moratorium
ends and I don't know how that how that
affects that schedule we were hoping to
get done tonight if possible I might
start crying well if this doesn't get
done and the moratorium stays in place
for one more City Council well you know
the moratorium is over on the 30th and
less Council extends it if we're not
done with things so the council has
another hearing scheduled on the 18th
for the moratorium their choice on the
18th is they can lift the moratorium or
they can extend the moratorium because
the visions relate to all of central
Issaquah for me it would be hard for me
to believe that they would lift it until
this piece of the puzzle gets at least
pretty well batten down and since they
haven't gotten to see version 26 I don't
know that I don't know I would not
expect for them to lift it now they
might we've gotten all the rest of it
done so the other 5 moratorium work
items are done almost inclusion Aires on
its way but and architecture reviews on
Monday so so in theory by the 18th all
of them but this one would be done the
problem if we if we do have a
continuance of a conversation as we can
but as unless the council wanted to have
a special land inshore meeting after the
14th but before the 18th and that
doesn't seem likely since that would be
like Friday they wouldn't have a chance
to look at our product so we're running
out of time now the extension typically
is six months
but they don't have to do six months
they could do two months but it's that's
that's what we're facing and hey you
know we've been working hard to try and
get this all done by the end of the year
that was been a goal and so I think
that's still my goal but I understand
I'm ready to stay for a long time if we
want to go through the four neighborhood
districts go it goes for one and see how
it goes well how it turns at least and
then get into the yep
so Western gateways first marry so any
comments you know we had the
conversation of should it be in should
it be out that happened already so I
think now again back to let's talk about
each of the five sections so description
about today okay future the only thing
I'm already talking to WisDOT about when
they're sound group wall goes in place
that'll be or welcomed Issaquah big
cement wall we need to get plantings
there and I'm talking to them about a
gateway entry welcoming sign in the what
do you call it off the shoulder to their
edge there right away between the wall
and i-90 so I would prefer if this said
not just incorporated into the new
connection over i-90 which may be twenty
to thirty years away but say in the
right-of-way and or on the connection
over i-90 okay I think it's a good
suggestion
I had this
okay implementing actions I wasn't
prepared to do this um we need the
crossings to exist between neighborhoods
and across Newports way to the trailhead
because as its worded here it's
basically getting people into the
transportation but they need to connect
the Gateway with the existing
neighborhoods which is not part of the
vision yet for a new port way that needs
to change
also we hang on so say that again Mary
so which number were yuri number two
okay ad and crossing to existing
neighborhoods and to trail safe you know
because right now the emphasis is on
getting Gateway people into Issaquah not
to existing neighborhoods and that's
very evident by what we see going
forward with the concept for a new port
way okay and then also transit local
transit or ways to get to the Transit
Center from the Gateway area nothing
said about that so we've got it in the
outcome piece yeah but that city's got
to work with that to get it right so
that was I didn't understand that that
was actually likely until I talked to my
staff so I'll add work with Metro on the
Newport route which is three point four
under something or a local what I
doesn't have to be Metro it can be a
local system some way well what I was
told is metros already made a commitment
to add a new port route to future look
yeah it does that'll yeah but I don't
think they're just going to find it and
measure success
[Music]
wildlife corridors from cougar down to
the lake well not only Tibbets but we've
got spider and aviation coming so it's
it's all of those is wildlife corridors
you know through there connect them to
Lake Sam and measures of success is
salmon in all of those obvious salmon
coming back in all of those one more
minor but important one which is in
distinctive descriptions item 1.2 there
and it talks about monster sound trail
and cougar mountain trail heads are
regional destinations well that's true
but if you're a local resident it's like
wait a minute why do I want that in my
neighborhood and so it should read those
Cougar Mountain trailhead are adjacent
amenities and regional destinations
because it's an amenity for the local
people we're not trying to draw
everybody in a region to their
neighborhood it's for them and for
others he also want to make sure on
implementation number six about the
noise wall that that's something that
we're able to highly control the
aesthetic design of and whether that
goes to the Arts Commission whether that
falls within design standards that is
overseen by some somebody else that that
that that implementation action is is
highly controlled by our community okay
we can do our best it could come out
really badly if it could that could be
the face of our community anyway when we
talk about we want signage that is that
will be it's a sign for our community
I'll definitely put that in there as an
intended outcome right something that
properly reflects our community rather
than just a concrete area with maple
leafs imprinted
I want to add to that wall yes sir
because I have personal experience with
us when I lived in the Bay Area we I
lived about a mile away from a freeway
that I never heard before and when they
put these sound walls up the noise
became very very loud and so we have a
lot of communities that are on the
hillside if we build a hard barrier wall
that sound will ricochet off those walls
and these neighborhoods will hear the
freeway it'll sound like a river running
through your neighborhood so I do not
like the idea of having a hard wall you
can have a vegetation wall or other soft
walls that will absorb the noise but
there are other ways to reduce noise
through asphalt the quality of asphalt
you use and other types of attributes
I'm not four walls and when you write
when you drive down is it are 90 through
our town and you see a wall it's gonna
look like you're writing through Lynwood
or Kirkland it's not going to be a very
glamorous it's gonna look like 405 do we
want that in our neighborhood no it's a
sticky problem Wow it's like it's so one
wall when one person's wall is another
person's potential you know blight so
you know I guess I mean I think to Joy's
point you know you don't want for miles
of blank concrete can walls as the
signature of Issaquah right so from an
aesthetic standpoint of travelers either
visiting our community traveling past
our community or those of us that live
here or work here you know you want that
aesthetic from i-90 to be distinctive
and representative of our community as I
don't disagree with you Ron about
because I actually used to do freeway
planning in Phoenix so I know all about
noise walls and the travel of sound you
know the problem that you've got you
is I don't know what the noise levels
are right now of just the bleed-through
up the hillside versus if you make a
canyon and contains some of that noise
how much of it actually spills over the
walls to some extent it depends on how
tall those walls are and part of that
you know our desire for the aesthetic of
not having it be a canyon versus you
know having some spillover over the top
so it's a complicated topic you know the
the tree-lined or the shrub line I can
tell you that that's not effective in
dampening much noise from freeways it
will do some but not much so if you
truly want a noise barrier needs to be
concrete wall sound absorbing wall not
concrete well yeah there sounded it's a
sound of service since I you know we
talk about walls I worry about the sound
I mean I can already hear 90 on the top
of squawk and you'd put a sound wall up
I'm gonna really hear that freeway and
Highlands will - oh it's going to be a
really important attribute and I think
if you build it people will scream
bloody murder one because that's a
visual blight and two it's going to be
it's going to affect the entire town
where right now it affects the retail
you know the the properties are most
adjacent to the freeway but the other
neighborhoods can tolerate it and I
don't think it's the right solution for
us I think there are other attributes
our quality grade of concrete or asphalt
would help minimize that if we push for
it not to bring us to the rgc but since
that's also an implementation action for
that as well I think it's fair to say
that we want to make sure that our
community highly controls how how they
go in and that they represent our
community I think we can carry that
through forward for all noise noise
walls along
90 corridor has a transit community that
people come in and out of it matters to
us and so we communicate that to staff
now not sure what the best way is to
achieve that goal yet but know that it's
important to us and let us know how we
can help you to help you do that right
you can add a few words in in here to
address that I can you're not going to
necessarily get everything you want
working with sound transit or anything
else but we can try I think number six
should be work words washed out to
reduce the noise but I don't like the
idea that we're really going to walls as
a solution region across Center that's
number two any other comments on rgc
other than we're changing its name and
and splitting it into at least two
neighborhoods so there's two huge
development agreements in this area and
I think highlighting those I have made
note of the rally da and the Costco da
so that's I don't know there's just
something to Costco in there potential
expansion areas like nevermind that's in
the da it might be nice to see what does
the city before see this looking like
this these two neighborhoods so when we
talk about kind of you know Wall Street
turning into you know so some of the
visualizations that we've had
even if simple might help to communicate
the message of what we're trying to
achieve in this area so yeah I think one
of the suggestions from Lindsay about
adding some photos of you know not
everything but you know if there were
three or four photos of each kind of
district or neighborhood to help
visually you know because some people do
better with pictures some with words you
know to show that confluence is
different than the rgc which is
different than East Valley I mean I
think what we're doing is we're creating
very different areas with
central and I think that having some of
those photos I think will be helpful so
I think I think that was a good
suggestion I don't know if you were
thinking of something else joy I think
some of its gonna have to be abstracting
a little it's gonna be photos I think
some of it might be like what we saw
when we were going over Wall Street
isn't actually real they weren't actual
photographs they're concepts to help
draw and so one thing that was really
that I really enjoyed about it going
around on our on our walking bus tour
was this concept of this is what it can
be this is what this developers
interested in and so kind of getting
people that visualization because right
now if you were to walk into let's say
the Fred Meyer Home Depot
you know asphalt parking lot it's hard
to imagine well where would you put
condos townhomes or whatever being able
to go around talk to me about you know
that we talked about that the blight of
the wall what what can that what can a
hotel on the hillside look like that is
integrated into our community so well
the hotel us about example but I think
that when we try to communicate a vision
a vision of the rgc it might help to say
this is what we see the future of
Issaquah looking like rather than just
this is what it is now and there's this
hard line between where we want to get
to great programs that can draw in that
bad stuff one other thing I feel like
the Lake Sammamish State Park while it's
mentioned in the today section adjacent
to yeah there isn't anything on the
future section about now there should be
more connectivity there okay for that I
would suggest that you in East Valley
take section number three point 500
and number one and city implementing
actions and just take both of those and
put them into digital growth center
number three okay
the number one in city implementing
actions in these valley if taxes sick
and three point five under connected but
again what I've been distressed that's
all good and I agree with that but
something about the green necklace
unless we unless we all agreed that
you're gonna create a page specifically
for the green necklace that precedes all
these visions I think we agreed to that
all right then that should cover it
because I had lots of comments on how
that should be integrated in here one
other comment on under sustainable 4.4
yes I don't like the wording has not
resulted in a loss of employment how
about development has resulted in a gain
of employment the better wait it's a
more proactive optimistic way of looking
at it and then also on three point three
Sound Transit Station is a central hub I
would like it in our vision to be very
clear that that hub needs to be located
within the footprint of the i-90
right-of-way that's our vision as a City
Sound Transit may not like it TUC that's
our vision that can flex with the code
that we've already passed we've already
passed code that allows them to put
wherever they want we opened it up for
them so I don't know how we have a
vision that actually contradicts work
we've already done well even if the code
would allow it to go anywhere our vision
can say we wanted to write in the nine
right away under Parkes it has the
flyover bus ramps so we don't have all
the traffic clogging this up I mean we
better lay that out or we're gonna get
wherever Sound Transit wants to go is
the slug map in the comp planner and
sits in this yeah it didn't central plan
okay I think what joy was referring to
and we came here with the public hearing
I'm more specific zoning that never kind
of died yeah so there is a map in the
central listicle plan that shows four
possible locations yes that's the say it
looks like it slug so should we narrow
that down to one high I think so
because again when you talk about the
plague of Issaquah today being a
commuter pass through town if you want
to avoid that as it's even worse 30
years from now then you need to have the
vision that says that station is right
in the footprint of the main
transportation corridor with everything
feeding into and we make that our vision
otherwise you just end up with more pass
through commuter traffic getting to the
train station I mean that could be a
task force into itself - well some
Transit will probably do that all right
I doubt they're gonna consult us they're
gonna do what they want so I mean if you
want to go that direction I think that
we almost need to have the city appoint
task force like we did with the traffic
issue recently to say what is the best
place for our community one of the
things and it says this is there going
to be I think where we have most housing
we still haven't addressed the schools
and in sustainability or someplace I
think we need to define that you'll live
work and play and go to school you know
by walking because if we don't work
closely with the school district we're
going to be busing all these kids to
Timbuktu
so someplace in here I think we need to
work that in to make sure that we are
identifying working closely with the
school district or with charter schools
to build charter schools and some of our
mix juice buildings
well does that go back to the visions
that we had about urban schools that had
the agenda item to go back I mean
another way to integrate that verbage
those still yet to be created well we're
coming back here to talk turbine school
policy at some point in next year I
think we think we promise first half
vaguely remember that so so that part is
gonna happen I don't disagree with
Mary's comment you know that you know
part of the conversation we've been
having about the potential hilltop
elementary school site is you know the
need to put schools where the population
gain is so you diminish the amount of
required busing that's necessary and I
think we all would agree that that is a
good outcome right or objective I still
don't know Vicki you know and so if we
expect to have 7500 housing units you
know in the vicinity of in the sub area
in this district you know there should
be some conversation about schools so I
agree with that I don't know where it
goes but yeah I don't see maybe in this
this this districts that's gonna be the
largest yeah Wow I don't know I don't
know if it wants to be in the rgc or
somewhere around the perimeter I don't
know well it just needs to be noted some
here so it doesn't get forgotten again I
agree because it got forgotten the last
time I had one more thing the quote I
had a question about in the today
statement we have the function of Gilman
bull Boulevard
remains undecided in the future I don't
think if you like
I was like well it's a very positive
statement and it's also it doesn't
really give a direction of what we would
like it's honest we might want to have
an actual part of it we address that in
the future you know so you know we
envision Gilman Boulevard to be a
corridor that connects you know I mean
like there you don't want I don't mind
this this diamond being in there today
but I do mind it just being left hanging
County has a tape though to identify a
vision here because there is something
in the work plan and we've hired a
consultant to do a vision for all of
Gilman from 902 Front Street in 2018 I
don't think I think it's a little
premature
to do it right now and I don't think we
have to say what the vision is I think I
think to Joy's point you know we've kind
of set up this we've got this kind of
thing that's out there and then we just
don't even address it I think I think
saying that maybe in the future the
Gilman Boulevard is the potential to do
something or has been integrated into
you know the district or in the
neighborhoods to a point where there
it's an asset I mean I think you could
be as loose as that without getting into
specifically like what is it because I
don't even know yeah
so I have two things one is and this has
come up a bunch of times but I think
since it's a vision I would like to see
there be worrying about having a cover
over ionize you or a lid is this not
actually in the vision and then the
other thing would be there's no there's
a lot of mention of connections and
crossings but I think it should be
considered especially for the smaller
roads like a certain 100 relatively
speaking
also tunnels it could be an option high
water table you dig in you catch water
there's no nowhere tunnels are hard for
us unless you're in I mean the Highlands
could have a tunnel talus can have a
tunnel but Valley floors ie you can get
water it at six feet I also felt like
I'm Mary I know Mary already mentioned
this but for the Western gateway which I
agree with but for this one for measures
of success its again wildlife corridors
when we talk about connectivity I think
that that needs to be emphasized that
that's we're not just trying to connect
people we're also trying to connect the
environment and right now that's still
you know a migration path into the park
know that so this applies I noted this
one here but it truly applies to every
district neighborhood whatever but and I
don't know where you'd want to fit it
but under city implementation actions I
would like to see some aspirational goal
that says something along the lines of
use the transfer of development of right
rights program and development
mitigation to enhance density without
handing out free up zones that in other
words there needs to be you don't just
give everybody instant multi-millionaire
status and say now you've got 50 units
to an acre instead of five
make them buy into that by offsetting
with other open space by helping with
road improvements by doing some of the
green green necklace by whatever else we
need is the amenities that make this
livable you don't just get the free zone
in you got to buy into the vision and
then you get your zoning so somewhere
that needs to be woven into this whole
plan as City implementing actions or
just the overall approach to how we will
let that density fill in here it's not
just giving out freely like candy so I
don't disagree I think where I would
stick it can is there's clearly no
oxygen left in this room I think I would
place it in the story section and in
terms of talking about how you know the
this area has already been upset you
know and that basically that the city
has Smart Growth tools like TDRs and
density bonus program to provide for
additional density where property owners
see fit to go after that and rather than
having the city increased zoning beyond
what's there now so I think and I think
that could be part of the story not to
just hand it out freely but to partner
with developers and they need to buy
into it if they want the benefit of
added density buy into making this
community absorb that density with some
other attractive features that benefit
the whole community okay
so throughout all of this it's like
what's the public benefit and so I went
to the effort of reading San Francisco
Code while I was down there because they
have a lot of this conversation about
how to increase density and they just
say if you want to be this dense you
have to do the rules and you have to do
these things too and that was very
specific block by block pictures this is
going to be a park and they drew the
park in that area this is going to be
your plaza and they drew it in that area
this is the area for your affordable
housing and these are the three blocks
where you can actually have your
increased density and they just
described very clearly what you shall do
in order to be able to build in San
Francisco and it wasn't an option it was
just you are privileged to build here
and so we get the bonus as the community
with lots and lots of language of and
how do you protect the individual values
of each community and so when I read
this this is what I this is the place
where I think you could start asking for
that so in your beginning language you
see a lot of and it has to make the
community better where that language
falls short is is is where we're asking
for changes we're just asking for the
baseline and I think we're missing the
whipped-cream that would actually make
the community happy to have development
I don't generally have comments on her
neighborhood by neighborhood basis there
was one that stood out that was
mentioned that this is the area for
affordable housing that wasn't
necessarily in the other ones I just
think if we're gonna have affordable
housing we need to talk about how that
where that's going to happen throughout
district observation so I appreciate
that and just so that you know Steve the
reason why some of the neighborhoods or
the districts have a mentioned specific
a mention for affordable housing is
because of the inclusionary requirement
in East Valley and brg C so we know we
will get it there's you know so part of
I think what I heard and Lindsay can
tell me if she heard something else what
I heard from land in Shore was part of
the criticism of the existing visions is
we weren't getting what it said we were
we wanted right and so if like in
confluence we say we want affordable
housing and confluence then what's the
tool that we're going to use to get it
and right now the inclusionary is not
going to extend into confluence and so I
don't disagree we want we have a we have
an affordable housing program that we're
trying to get a certain number overall
period right I think that you know if
there's an opportunity and there
actually is one potentially in
confluence because the city owns the at
work site so we could and I thought
maybe I did actually put that in there
because of that but you like in Gateway
I don't think we're gonna get any
affordable housing and Gateway I mean
because that ship sailed
and there was an inclusionary
requirement we have so in the land and
we missed that boat so so I don't
disagree with you but there's reasons
why some places it specifically says
affordable in some places it didn't
there anything else
the fuller said here have a comment
before we close we're not closing skip
to the end that was my thing of trying
to get you I know you've made actually
some comments about three four already
so I wasn't sure if you had more things
to have a couple kind of small ones the
in three talks about under sting
distinctive says horizontal mixed-use
provides housing and employment
opportunities it seems like we were
looking for vertical mixed-use as well
so I'm sorry Mela you and he fell in
each valley he's finally so item one
point to their distinctive I got to be
in the wrong place oh I am sorry I'm
like reading that three times saying
that doesn't say that we clearly got to
a point so so as we as we as we've and
around we talked about East East Valley
a lot and you know you're probably not
gonna see a change in the microsoft
office buildings I mean you've got seven
or 50,000 square feet of Class A office
it's probably not going anywhere anytime
in the next thirty years you know you've
got the school district that's moving
forward buying one of the space labs
buildings and that's gonna be their new
office buildings you've got probably the
FedEx site is going to turn over at some
point and and could be vertically
mixed-use but could also just be
residential you know the BMC site as we
talked about BMC and kind of that east
side of East Lake Sam you know I think
at least some of the conversations that
we had was that seemed like that was a
lot more like residential like maybe you
know townhouse E or something along the
lines of so as you started to talk about
the construct of what was happened
there it seemed more like we had mixed
use but it was more horizontal mix you
swear as opposed to the vertical which
we saw more in the RG see and so it
doesn't mean we won't get some vertical
mix use I mean I think you know the the
owners of the majority of the Fred Meyer
Shopping Center right now we're actually
talking about vertical mix use that's I
guess my question could we just change
it to say horizontal and vertical I
don't have a problem with that I think
we talked about in the future statement
it talks about it being a less dense
character than the rgc yeah so I would
say generally mixed use is more dense
when you're talking vertical less dense
when you're talking about as obvious I
think that's the vision for the area or
at least what we can expect I don't know
I would see Fred Myers you come in there
and you put in a you know five stories
of wood over ground level retail in the
location like that is being very
difficult in what we'd see on the
Albertson side and of going in again I
could see both of them happening us to
happen it just means that it could yeah
that if somebody came in with a vertical
we wouldn't be able to go back and say
sorry you can't do it because their
vision was only horizontal yeah I was
curious about for implementing number
three when we talk about gathering space
with a view of Mount Rainier but we
don't mentioned as a measure of success
I'm curious I also call it Trish's pipe
dream so
[Music]
[Laughter]
so measure of success looks like from
the city and right now again it feels
like a threat of no-man's land you know
telling me that you know Gilman house do
you know what is the place of Yale in my
community public space for our year I
would like to have a specific session
that of a measure of success I'd like to
see that address I thank you for
connecting the dots there's obviously a
few things about Gilman Village that
need to move you know there's on in East
Valley City implementing actions
I'm sorry measures of success I regional
traffic impacts on East Lake Sammamish
parkway rating news could we add in 56
yeah yeah good point and then throughout
he's family there's discussion of East
Lake Sammamish Park we evolved it into a
pedestrian bicycle friendly corridor
yeah route and I have a biker I would
not buy Connie he's like sparkly if I
can go on the trail I know we want to
put a lot of money in well then what we
talked about when we're at a task force
is with the redevelopment is creating
the pathways inside remember well I mean
basically the backs of the buildings
would be to East them at the Parkway and
they would face one another with your
pedestrian your sidewalks inside yeah
likely you village so knowing that the
traffic with that many lanes it's not
gonna ever be pedestrian friendly
because right now they're not using East
Lake Sammamish so with creating new
roads well that's because there's not
really well two things I don't think
there's really facilities that are
continuous on East Lake Sam that give
you that level of comfort that you're
not going to get hit by somebody going
50 miles an hour to Sammamish but also
you know so the question is I don't I
don't
I don't know the answer to that question
I mean it is it defeatist not to say we
want to try and turn East Lake Sam into
a more pedestrian and bike friendly
facility I mean right now it's it's been
it's been designed to move as many cars
as quickly as possible from point A to
point B and and I think the question is
do we try and reclaim that Street or do
we say it's a write-off
well the reason that we've always left
it in there's B in 2004 and then again
in 2014 when we did the first on
motorized plan and then walk and roll
the commuters that we talked to said
that they would rather ride on the
street because they want to fly through
there instead of having to ride on a
shared used route where they risk
running into pedestrians and have to go
slower rights always been in their part
of when we were looking at the layout is
to create a few more through rows that
were more bike friendly sure would
definitely help options so because I
actually biked that route or commute to
Bothell and to Redmond on the trail on
the trail I can actually save almost 15
minutes by taking the road over the
trail that's huge huge that's actually
doesn't make any difference it was
before they closed it for so I used to
take the road because it was a whole lot
faster and when I commute I see a lot of
bicyclists doing the same thing I'm
doing and I don't see as many bicyclists
taking the bike path although the bike
path is really important especially when
it's wet because you don't get all the
spray but if you really want to fly you
take Lake Sam and it's a lot faster
but I don't know I I think it's really
important to keep maintain a
bike-friendly pathway on the on the road
but the people that take like Sam as far
as bikes know that it's not very only so
part of it is it's hard to look far
enough down the road so to speak right
but I mean if you envision like if you
took BMC and turned it into fairly big
residential complex and let's assume
that the second space labs building
turns into housing or FedEx turns into
housing and we start to actually create
a real neighborhood there so right now I
mean you've got basically people cutting
through that area to get around the
intersection of East Lake Sam and 56 in
the morning you know because it's faster
and right now that's fine cuz nobody
lives in there right and as soon as
people live in there that's gonna be a
problem
I think likewise you know what we've
learned on Newport where you allow roads
to not have all the facilities that
people expect there's going to be
somebody at some points gonna say there
should be bike lanes there should be
wide sidewalks you know people are still
going to drive 40 miles an hour but we
should have pedestrian facilities on
that road that that recognize that I
don't know well I think Newport is a
little bit different in the sense that
you don't have these Lake Sammamish
Trail which is an alternative any night
I use that when I commute to Seattle as
well and it's a little hairy in the
mornings because you have so many cars
zooming past you where Lake Sam you at
least have a bike path the whole length
well I think on Newport we're talking
about a mixed-use trail and bike lanes
right it's hopefully sooner than later
so I don't know I mean I think I think
we should be thinking about all modes on
all streets even if right now they're
kind of scary I had a note for the comp
for confluence of
the last neighborhood and that is to
have in the implementing actions that we
actually say that we are looking at
having staff address code to help keep
the characteristics of the neighborhood
that probably should be in each
neighborhood
well we've specifically talked about
with confluence tonight and so I think
it's important to think about it as an
action item if you don't want to put it
in the implementation actions but it's
something we've discussed it and it may
need language to help preserve it in a
similar way that we you know don't Old
Town though again not sinful Issaquah
keep treating it a little bit like a I
hate to say a special neighborhood
within the district but they all should
have their I think the point of this is
to get you know I think part of the
problem is we had 900 acres or 1,100
acres I keep forgetting how many acres
you know of central Issaquah and this
was to actually make more distinction
and I think your point is a good one we
did talk about confluence there does
need to be if if we don't do any of the
other code revisions that one needs to
happen if we're going to have it be a
transitional neighborhood like we
described just one other over measure of
success for the different areas that
Street cannon fires we really haven't
talked about tree canopies but I'd like
to see you know something put in there
as far as the measures the tree canopy
on in this area is increased because I
think most of our tree canopy right now
is from outside this area I'm not
touching trees you know so I'm just
gonna be honest I mean the tree code
we've got Central is quadtree code we've
got IMC tree code I think the whole tree
code piece is heading towards a whole
remake because I think the conversations
we've been having about the villages and
the differences between and the urban
schools we had same came came to the
same place about we'd have one tree code
for the whole city and I don't know
agree with with what you want to
with that Mary but I don't want to I
want to put it in here because I don't
know what to do with that yet and I
think it's really complicated
I just like to again put a whole space
holder in there I'll think about that
one all right Ron did you have one
comment today I was gonna ask the public
if they had one last comment to make
they can go first but so I know this is
kind of it I don't want to be a negative
and I certainly know that this is can be
a sore spot and I don't want to offend
anybody all right even experts need
coaching assistants sometimes right NFL
football players they need a coach I
think we need a coach to look at this
and help us make sure that we are
nailing this thing down and for if it
costs us a hundred thousand if it cost
us two hundred thousand I think it's an
investment because if we get it right
we'll get that money back and fold if we
get it wrong we're gonna be hosts and I
think we just should be prudent and I I
would like to make the recommendation of
City Council make a motion that we look
for a third party to assist our staff in
making this vision in helping us guide
our thoughts and processes into a really
polished off document I love my city
very much I want a one a rockstar
document I want the best possible
outcome for our city I don't want to
sell short and I think like what Ken has
said if we make it really if we do a
top-notch job we don't have to sell the
city short and try and lure people here
with incentives we make the vision very
clear we back it up with really solid
code
and I think we need help with that as
well and then we can move forward with
peace of mind and it'll be an investment
it will get it back if we don't I think
would be having this conversation in
five years from now saying what did we
do wrong I just don't want to have that
conversation I wanted to get it I want
to knock the ball out of the park first
time right thank you actually I would
like to make a motion to City Council
that we look for a third party assistant
to help our staff with baking this
vision motion on the floor is there a
second hearing no second the motion dies
does anybody else want to make a last
comment David's ready we do something
better than East Valley
maybe it's my prejudice about Canton the
oldest family freeway or highway and
what was the almost live show and you
know I just
these valley just doesn't make it for me
but I don't have a great solution cuz
you're not gonna call it Sammamish
because it was damaged or something you
know so which it's you know so I don't
know it just bugs me so take it under
advisement if you can come up with a
better name then I'm happy for y'all to
send me names and I just have one last
pitch you talk about East Lake Sammamish
Parkway and all the roads it's how do we
get across the roads it's not how do you
parallel the roads and that is why you
need to make it pedestrian friendly and
last time this plan got written
everything was how do you get a cross I
mean just walk down it and Gilman
Boulevard it said you know people aren't
really gonna want to go across the road
and so it's not going to be a pedestrian
oriented street and I think he said all
of our streets need to be looked at as
pedestrian oriented if you want a future
where people are going to be able to
cross them
so again one last pitch I'm sort of
connectivity overlay over the entire
central is a quat plan Oh since nobody
else has any comment I'm going to make
one a very short one and I basically is
just to agree with Connie in the way of
I expect with the code codes that are
going to be put together that you're
going to see where the parks are going
to be how many homes you can build there
what the track and what traffic what it
does to traffic if you put 7,000 new
units in some area how they're going to
get out right now we have a traffic
problem we can't get around very well
and if you put 75 7,000 more units in
here you are going to have problems and
I can't see bringing down streets to
make them instead of three lanes to two
lanes I can't see us doing any of that
as to you're somebody's comment the if
the intersections fail were there
already failing we already have Epps in
most of the areas in the city so we
still have that so I think
transportation is you can say going to
build all these homes but you're going
to have to have to have the access to be
able to move people around and when we
had they we had the discussion
originally on the central area plan we I
was I'm the only one that was on the PPC
at the time besides Carl and it was yes
we're going to approve this as long as
you do the codes to make sure that you
know which area how many homes are going
to go in that area where the traffic is
going to be how many parks are going to
be there where the parks are going to be
so I'm hoping that that's what the city
comes out with because I mean that's
what we need we need to know what we're
going to do we just can't let builders
do it
so that's my my two thoughts so since it
is now 10:25 I'm gonna call this meeting
to close and thank you very much for
your comments they were awesome so my
one last ask so we're gonna be we will
do the edits to our best ability of
understanding the direction that we got
this evening there will be an updated
version of this probably by Monday and
if any of you would like to come to
Landon Shore next week to talk about
this whether you like it or not I'm
ready for honesty I think the council
wants honesty you know I would love for
y'all to come and say it's wonderful but
if you think it's horrible and a train
wreck if you feel like you know the
council should hire consultants
I'd say bring it on
I think having I think having some
others come to Landon Shore and help the
conversation along would be great
what's do Lennon Shore starts at 6:30 I
don't know what's we're kind of like the
only thing on the agenda there's a
couple little things it's a couple
little things so I would say for the
most part the bulk of the meeting will
be talking about the visions it the
agenda will be on the city website so
you'll be able to see what time and
where and where you are on the agenda so
it'll be up tomorrow
waitjust tomorrow Friday yes yes it'll
be a smart
like an hour and 20 minutes so I hate to
do this but this is the public hearing
and we still have a findings of fact
they need a recommendation and I know
the there have been so I know I know
that it's kind of up in flux
I just how do you want to handle that so
I looked at the piece of paper that I'm
supposed to sign that forward this on
but there were so many things that
you've changed on it on that so I don't
think that there could be I'd like to
see it before you son I personally feel
that we have really rocked through a lot
of stuff and it's hard to say that we're
all on the same page until we look at
that page and while I don't want to
delay I am hesitant to say if findings
of fact as implemented in our discussion
that makes me a little apprehensive
oh sorry does that mean we have to go to
the fourteenth for you to make a motion
to move this forward
well let me ask you a question right now
is there anything else on on our docket
for the rest of the year
now it's officially our last meeting it
would be if the visions were done I'm
chair how do you feel about we certainly
can if we don't have the finding of
facts we can't go to land in short right
no you go to land in short right I mean
I think I think the purpose of land in
Shore is really just to have a
conversation with the committee if
there's Commission business to do my
suggestion would be have a quick meeting
on the 15th 14th 14th
this document will be done and baked it
will be through Landon Shore well it
could be through they and ensure only
they left so so you guys will have a
document that at least staff feel is is
done and representative of this
conversation so at that point you guys
can review that document have a
conversation and then do your findings
and and and have that done in advance of
the council meeting on the 18th which
still kind of works this still will go
to a discussion of land and this is yeah
this is still going there will be a new
version that they will get by I don't
know that it by tomorrow
so it's tomorrow now right tomorrow's
Saturday so we will as soon as possible
I don't know that it's going to be
tomorrow it might be Monday those maps
to do there's all those pretty pictures
in those pictures
at least it's going to land in Shore and
if all of you any of you want to go to
the meeting it would help progress it
through it would help staff we would
appreciate any any we can't do it for we
can't have a meeting basically online
can we be a PC yeah no no I like to open
the eggs and yeah you ain't has to be an
open meeting and that's not so we can
have it in a van though noted on the
meeting that there was going to be a van
I'm surprised that other people didn't
join in but some people that were here
had said they wanted to go
David's David's driven with me before I
remember one time driving over a giant
mountain of dirt David in the car and
when you were driving us you managed to
do some strange things yes just just for
the record just for the record no no
driving laws were broken while I was
driving a city vehicle if any of you
want to go to Landon Shore and continue
this on and then we'll have a final
discussion on the four shoes in them
you'll have the information in front of
you and then forwarded on with my
signature yeah okay although I closed
the meeting at 10:30 10:25 I'm going to
again close it at 10:30 so with that
turn off your microphones