because you're not used to sitting down
here in the dinner table CD you have to
hit your microphones gently to make the
red light go on okay John take it away
welcome to the November 9th meeting in
the Planning Policy Commission tonight
we're going to talk about the the vision
of in support of what we wanted to look
like in the future and you might notice
that there are several additional people
around this table and they are part of
the task force that originally spent two
or three years many hours putting
together what we all think has positive
positives for the city so we're not here
to change it we're just here to see if
we have to make any updates or based on
what has happened in the last two years
so we are not here to tell you people
that you did not do a good job and to
start all over we certainly do not want
to start all over so that's what we're
planning to do tonight the first thing
on our agenda is always the approval of
the minutes so do I have a I like to
make a motion to approve the minutes
from October 26 any discussion any
changes all those in favor say aye
with that we will go right into Trish's
presentation of what we should be
looking at and what our plans are for
the future okay do we since there's so
many new PPC members would it be helpful
for our Rockstar task force members to
introduce themselves because I sure am
really going both ways I don't think
that everybody on PPC knows these
gentlemen right well that's what I I
thought so that everyone could know who
to whom they are talking with because
and we can start with can yeah gently
tap
in Koenig's mark I've lived in this cost
since 1984 when it was a one-stop white
town that Front and sunset so lots of
changes been involved in a lot of the
activities related to growth management
and the developments including Asuka
Highlands and talus particularly I'm on
the board of these coops trails Club and
the mountains to sound Greenway and
several others so I come from an
environmental and conservation bent I'm
Mel Morgan I've served on the
Development Commission for a couple of
decades and then served on the central a
task force as well I'm Joe Forkner I was
the chair of the task force and done
pretty much everything there is to do in
Issaquah some level or another yes
microphone you need to share this is my
first year on BBC I'm Ron Paul and I'm
the vice chair on PBZ I'm John purple
and I have that pleasure of serving as
chair this year
Haeju Magali I'm an alternate for PPC
moved here just last year lived in
Bellevue very very briefly before that
perform living here from out of state
and I'm Mary Lynch and I also was part
of its citizens Task Force and lived
here over 30 years Mathieu Saldana and I
have lived in Issaquah for 10 years and
I'm an alternate on PPC Abbe John Staub
I've been on PPC for two years now and
lived in Issaquah for the same amount of
time so great
Karl sweat burger and I've been on PPC
for 16 years
Wow great thank you all and I noticed we
have John from The Grange here who was
in one of our focus groups many focus
groups that we had for property owners
and businesses in the central area and
also we had open houses to open houses
to get the more public flavor as well so
thanks John for being here tonight
so in your packet I we briefly describe
sort of how we wanted to go through
things
and it's a little different perhaps than
we've done some of our moratorium
projects in the past this past year
because it has been a busy one we took
we had as I said we had some great oh we
started with a great open house with you
all before the new members came on board
which is unfortunate but we wanted to
start as soon as we could and then we
took it to the business owners and
property owners and then we had some
focus groups out in the community one at
Atlas and one at the barn and so we took
all that public comment and the existing
visions and the new visions what we
thought of and some strategies and we
gave it to the council last month for
their informal review and it just wasn't
it just wasn't exactly what they what
they had wanted and so we thought we'd
take a step back with you all and give
you the existing conditions what's there
now take you on some tours because we
know some of you are real new and just
to sort of give you the flavor of what's
out there and then start building the
the new visions from the ground up again
because maybe that that would be a
better tact so the first part of tonight
we want to talk about the purpose of a
vision why do we even need visions for
long range for our areas and some of the
issues that central has faced since it's
been adopted and things that it will
face in the future to kind of get us all
geared up for why do we need a good
vision and then the second half of the
meeting we're hoping to actually start
to word to throw out some bigger ideas
for each of the visions to start
thinking about what the what the vision
of what the future will be I don't know
if we can get through all ten tonight
maybe not but then there's always the
November 30th meeting too that we can
continue our work and we're hoping that
some of the task force members can come
back that night as well if possible so
with that again this is the expectations
we're even going to try and keep the
first set of questions to an hour in the
second set for an hour and then hear
public comment so we're not here till
midnight because that those
never very fun movies meetings would be
good if it was a movie and the outcome
we hope is that we understand why we
need a vision that we understand what's
changed since adoption and how may be
better we can figure out how to react
now so that we're ready for the future
and then have clear direction on the
boundaries of the districts is 10 enough
is 10 too many does 10 make sense is
some of the questions that we heard so
why anyway why was it a moratorium item
for the council this was a big one is
there something missing that caused us
to get development that maybe we didn't
think we were going to get to fix that
do we need to add some more details do
we need to have more pictures do we need
to have maps with specific placeholders
for things what kinds of criteria can we
use to get a better vision that helps us
have a better set of standards to get us
where we want to go for the future and
the council when they set this as a
moratorium item they gave us some new
criteria to evaluate as well one is our
contextual style they wanted the green
necklace to actually be pulled out of
the environmental piece so it would
stand alone because they thought it was
that important that it should stand
alone and placemaking so that each of
the neighborhoods has its own place
where the public would gather there and
the neighbors and business people could
gather that would be their own unique
feature in the neighborhood and they
also thought we should check the
boundaries that maybe the boundaries
don't make sense the purpose of having a
vision it's - it's to be aspirational
it's to be exciting it's to be inspiring
it's to be possible
certainly there are visions that are
impossible we don't want those we want
them to be able to be to be implemented
we want them to anticipate the jobs and
housing balance to work for us and not
and not to harm our economics or harm
our our sense of place so visions
sometimes they're touchy-feely but if we
can get them right
you can monitor them you can measure
them to see if you're making a
successful if you're successful or not
and we have some ideas on that at the
end to how to make them more measurable
are there questions about why so what's
happened since 2013 since we adopted the
vision well the first thing was Atlas
happened just outside the urban core
they weren't required to have mixed Jews
they weren't required to have affordable
housing because they were right outside
in the line of the urban core so that
caused us to ponder maybe our
regulations didn't go far enough maybe
we should have had more requirements
that were more just central wide instead
of just the urban core so that was one
of the first developments gateway
happened it all went residential even
though we wanted mix juice we didn't
require mix juice and so residential was
the hot market residential is what we
got the Costco development agreement
came in we think that was a good thing
there it's a known quantity of what
we're going to get in that area over the
next 20 to 25 years we annexed the State
Park that's a really good thing we have
two new hotels
we're in Sound Transit 3 so there's
light rail approved for Issaquah that's
pretty exciting the metro connects is
adapted that's all the new regional bus
routes that many of them come to
Issaquah there's a new 62nd Street
that's under construction if you've been
a your Costco her near our offices
there's beautiful construction going on
we have a train Tod project that's in
the works that we're gonna have a
presentation on one of these days when
our agendas aren't quite so packed but
that is proposed to go right near the
Transit Center and that's transit
oriented development that include
mixed-use affordable housing an array of
many wonderful land uses that we're
excited about and we now have an
ordinance about how to regulate compact
schools so that you can get more of a
school on a smaller parcel so these are
all things that we've done and you've
helped with since the adoption of the
central plan and standards in 2013 so
what might happen in the next 10 to 20
years and these are just the ones we
know about there's probably a lot out
there of course that we don't even know
are going to happen to supply the
schools are going to have to develop now
they have the money they need to find
the sites the Costco development is it's
going to start building out the
light-rail planning that we have to do
as a community we have to figure out the
Gilman Boulevard vision the plan and
reconstruction there's been a lot of
talk of how should it look like does it
look different to the East versus to the
West that's going to be really big in
this community
Newport Way is going to go under
reconstruction we're gonna we're working
with the State Park to change some of
the things that they do and how they do
it in their development agreement the
mall Street extension I mean there's
just all sorts of things that are coming
on online that are going to affect
Central Issaquah in the next in fact Ron
brought up one last night at the tour is
retail gonna change in the next 10 to 20
years I mean we might not go to stores
as much as we do you know that's
fabulous something to think about is our
whole concept of daily services question
thought can you highlight which of these
is like definitely going to happen and
which of these like is more planned but
net business like finally like the
overcrossing like the city really wants
that to happen but we still got to shake
up millions of dollars for that versus
some of these are kind of more
guaranteed and in process
overcrossing is it's not a thing okay if
you're crossing it will happen oh but it
might not be over I just mean like can
you go through these one by one and say
what kind of differentiate what you like
like the school is like that will
definitely happen there were schools yes
light rail yes Gilman Boulevard yes
Newports way yes State Park yes ma
Street I'm saying yes right no Street
yes I 90 crossing maybe not over but
crossing yes and me okay I 90 Maple
crossing yes Front Street with the state
that's got to be a yes yes parks plan
yes
bike share I'm gonna say yes we're
working with other jurisdictions and
it's slower than we thought but I it's
got to happen within the next ten years
okay so you guys feel pretty confident
that all of these will happen in some
form yes good question though any other
questions on influences okay oops
come on backwards these are the ten
neighborhoods I wanted to show this
slide before we dive in just so you can
see how they're organized now there's
ten they were pretty fun on the tour
because it was very dark very fast so
this trick question so I see some blue
lines on there that are obviously not
creaks what are those are those parcel
like between Valley and Gilman we've got
I think that's called a tributary it's I
think they're culverts
it's a color that that's they don't do
it water yeah yeah they don't meander
cuz they're making their they've been
man they're and it's all right they're
in a ditch pipe sort of a situation
curious because they're just too
straight
they are very straight we have some very
straight creeks in our town other
questions about the neighborhoods can
you go back to the previous page again
sorry
what's the can you give a quick
one-minute what's the Lake Sammamish
Park development agreement that's the
first time I've heard of that I only
know what I don't want to sidetracked us
but that one I hadn't never heard of
before so some of these things are
better defined at this point than others
what is going on right this moment is
the city got a request from state parks
to work on a development agreement and
an EIS for Lake Sammamish State Park and
I came with an ask to partner with them
on a development agreement but it also
came with and asked to help them fund
the EIS so council in at land and shore
committee last week heard an agenda bill
heard presentation from staff and State
Park staff and agreed to move that
agenda bill back to full council with
the idea that if full council approves
that that money asked to partner with
state parks would go into the 2018
budget the development agreement has
identified a number of possibilities its
includes things like moving the entrance
of the State Park from where it is now
to closer to the interchange of 12th and
56th it's looking at doing things like
kind of a natural kind of an eco center
so there's a lot of things from the
existing master plan which was done in
2007 that there's an opportunity to kind
of vet that and evolve that
but then there's also an opportunity to
look at some other things like possibly
taking the existing grass soccer fields
and turning them into all-weather fields
and making that more of kind of a
tournament destination space because
there's enough land to do that and so so
if we go down this path there'll be
plenty of community outreach
opportunities to talk about kind of the
scoping of what all we include in both
the development agreement and the EIS
but that's going on right now and the
first step is for council to agree to
help fund the EIS because if we don't
help them fund that it will not happen
because they don't have enough money in
their budget to do that by themselves
great that was more than F information
thanks Keith the other thoughts on this
and the reason the State Park is so
important is it's the whole northern
boundary of central so it affects
several of the neighborhoods so I had
one thought on the the neighborhood
shape thinking through this after I went
to the Newport way open house on that
rebuild oh that when you think of how
new poor way looks when you get west of
90 it's very much trying to be the the
central part of the neighborhood
whereas on these maps it's instead being
treated as a border mm-hmm
maybe thrown that out for discussion
because like 900 makes sense as a
boarder between neighborhoods it's very
much as a dividing wall very much as
like i-90 is so I'm wondering whether or
not if you want to frame Western gateway
correctly do you want to also include
the other side of the street but I know
at that point you get out of centralized
of kua I'm just I'm just throwing that
out there
because I'm just thinking of how how the
architects sold the Newport Way rebuild
in terms of making that very much the
center of that part of a sequoia so I'm
just gonna I'm gonna add to that because
you've opened one of the doors that we
want to talk about and that's boundaries
yeah
so that's boundary here as as Trish
mentioned Lake Sammamish State Park is
not in central Issaquah because it was
actually not in the city when this plan
was done so it didn't make sense to
include it that would be one question
about boundary changes is does the state
park want to be in central Issaquah or
not we also talked about kind of this
area down here at the southeast corner
of the Gilman neighborhood and whether
or not that makes sense to be in central
Issaquah or does that feel more like Old
Town and so from a boundary discussion
perspective I think there's at least a
short list and you guys might have some
other suggestions for what to put on the
list or not but I think those are some
of the conversations we want to have we
having that now or should I hold that to
later I think from an agenda standpoint
I don't want to derail too early no it's
part of the discussion so you could
certainly start it we have our slides on
that at the end okay all Dali but it's
it's all it's all good we're gonna do
the sideways chart when we actually
start doing bold ideas for the divisions
but thanks for asking
yes so this is the last I think this is
the last of the questions that we put in
your packet is what does success look
like for the visions when we're done
with them what would how will we sort of
backfill to make sure that these are
better perhaps than the ones that we
have and one of them was that you can
read it and visualize what the future is
going to be and although we thought
that's what the old visions did
apparently we didn't really nail it the
second one is that it's specific enough
to guide development and the design
standards and the example I use for that
is for Atlas and gateway if we really
wanted mixed-use in those areas we
should have actually had the standards
require mix
juice instead of being aspirational
saying it would be great to actually say
if you're developing here you have to
have two or more uses I mean it's it's
something that it's specific enough to
translate into exactly what you want and
the third one is if there's uncertainty
in the standards that you can go back to
the vision and you can understand which
way the standards were supposed to go
and that's easier again that's that
could be used for the Atlas and mix
juice question also when the development
actually occurs that it reflects what
was in the vision sort of looking back
that yeah that's what we wanted that's
what we got kind of a thought any
questions on so one thing to add to this
whenever you do vision for subsets of
alcohol you have to keep the alignment
to the hull so would it what is the
vision for supply and everything has to
tie back to that because if it doesn't
then it's pointless developing separate
visions I would agree with that as well
that what I saw lacking and what I got
delivered was an overall vision I
mentioned this to Keith it's like we've
got ten different puzzle pieces but
what's the picture that the puzzle
creates when those pieces come together
is it devil or is it Madonna because I
said to Keith we got to make it
Madonna I think within that vision then
I think it's got to get more than what
the second bullet says it isn't is a
vision specific enough it's is the
vision city policies and city codes and
regulations are those enough to guide
development it can't just be a vision
it's got to be backed up by regulations
codes policies hammer right otherwise
you're not going to get get the vision
because having sat through the gateway
in the ribbon and those discussions as
Mel has also is like with River we never
envisioned out there
Gateway I don't believe having zero lot
lines and we decided on our task force
we were thinking to keep it more in line
with the neighborhoods that were out
there but when the development standards
for the central area plan were done it
was included all the the areas and so
now rebus apartments will be zero lot
line to Newport way right because of the
design codes that were allowed to happen
with this so I think some of these when
we're talking about the individual areas
you also need to make sure that they get
implemented through the coats and
policies the way you want versus having
the zero lot line on a major street
right Trish one of the things you one of
the earlier slides said is a vision is
not standards or code right so I think
it's important to understand who that
someone is
that's in this first bullet point here
so that we can understand okay is the
vision put forth so that City Council or
whatever other committee is pulling
together the standards and the code uses
it to create those or is it more toward
a developer who is going to read this
and go oh that was the ideas let's see
if I can develop something that meets
that right and I think it has to be all
of the above and we need to keep those
users in mind when we're creating this
so that we can answer their question
right right good point I do have to say
that and I'm sorry I don't remember your
name can you have to start with the hole
though you start with the first you the
hole and then you you break it down into
into the different pieces when I was
looking at it it it concerned me that I
didn't know how those boundaries were
created because I don't know what
they're the entire vision is
so creating subsets it made no sense to
me because I couldn't figure out how
those subsets came right right good
question and that started from how many
years I'll say five years that we worked
on central it was to meet the next round
of growth targets from the state which
is why we never thought that the State
Park or environmental of areas though it
should be in there because the purpose
of the central plan was to meet the
growth targets for jobs and housing so
to put something like the State Park in
there would have diluted the land
because we knew you know we can't put
jobs on housing in the State Park and
yet it would have given us a huge more
acreage to work with and so that for us
in the planning that's not what our
point was our point was we need an area
that's not an existing neighborhood to
put the new growth because we didn't
want it on the hillsides
you know we didn't want it in South Cove
we didn't want it in any established
neighborhoods we wanted a new area that
wouldn't displace any neighborhoods to
put the new the new growth and so that's
where the boundary came up with there's
only there were only 700 units in there
at the time we did this and this would
be able to handle that 2006 to 2013
one-state growth targets that we had to
meet so that's where the boundary came
from and then we worked out the internal
boundaries to see if each of the
neighborhood had its own flavor had its
distinct jobs housing balance or some of
them have better parks and trail systems
some of them are a service area for
example down where the shop and some of
our industrial areas are but to the
short answer is the main reason that we
made the boundary this way was to meet
the state growth targets for jobs and
housing so yes I think it's I think
there's a couple things we need to point
out the task force came to the
conclusion not everybody agreed
I think we came to the conclusion that
the policy of going through this was
because we needed to accept a lot of
growth we didn't want to put it on the
hillsides and we decided the only way we
were going to get that growth in
Issaquah which was required by the state
was to have more urban standards so the
vision while it was just a very very
narrow vision it was we're going to
become an urban city rather than a
suburban city and I think that's what
drove most of this the other thing to
keep in mind is at the time that we were
going through all of this
Bellevue was developing Redmond was
developing Kirkland was developing
Issaquah was stagnant nobody wanted to
do anything here we were trying to
figure out ways we could get people to
come here and develop so what happened
was was once the CIP was done it just
kind of caught everybody off guard this
was a 30-year plan and and what was
supposed to happen over 30 years
happened within 10 years and that's what
caught everybody off guard we all sat
there and said well we don't need to
worry about making these regulations so
strict because we're not having anybody
come to us now with no restrictions so
if we make them real strict we're not
going to be able to meet a certain meet
our growth targets so as we go through
this process now as a city I think we
need to look at those things and say the
same thing you know what's important for
the city affordable housing was one of
the things that we put a lot of effort
into we tried to do in Santas we came up
with all ideas you still have to get
from a task force or a commission
through the City Council and
I'm not criticizing anybody I'm just
pointing out a lot of what the task
force did got lost from from task force
to implementation and some of the things
that got lost were very critical things
to the success of how this could have
worked I think that's one of the things
the Planning Policy Commission needs to
look at now as we move forward so that
those things don't get lost again if the
task force come up with a written vision
or is it just a you know more urban more
this more that they actually came up
with it that you can they came up with a
plan that had actually standards in it
they worked so hard and for so long that
they actually came up with a hybrid that
because they weren't satisfied with just
the policies to your credit they
actually put the standards with it so
that there was no question about what
they thought was the best for the
subdivision but that's not what got
adopted that what got adopted was just
the vision plan document and then the
standards came after but I'd have to
look back to see how I can think that
you know when you talk about this you
have to you're talking about the vision
you know we're gonna do all these things
but it would be nice to see a vision
there so that we can say yeah that would
means the vision right I don't know what
you guys was this it's like two
sentences I'll just read it very quickly
centralist quad vision guide the
evolution of central Issaquah from a
place known primarily for strip malls
and office buildings into a closely
aligned series of mixed-use
neighborhoods that create and maintain
an exceptional quality of life for
Issaquah residents and then
subcategories of that vision included
environment with goals urban community
with goals mobility and connect
connectivity with goals and economic
vitality so its laid out pretty well and
then each neighborhood at the time
had a vision as well right but within
that vision I'm gonna go one step
further just quickly there were a couple
key points part of the vision was that
90% of the valley for right now was
impervious surface and we said even as
we densify and grow we've got to improve
upon that we can't let 90% of the valley
floor be impervious surface and that was
a key element of the vision second key
element that the glue that held
everything together was the concept of a
green necklace an inner trail system so
that every resident even in dense urban
neighborhoods would have nature at your
doorstep or transit ability easy access
to transit connecting to the outer green
necklace of Cougars Glocke tiger and
grande rigs so that every citizen could
walk from their condo apartment home on
the inner link the inner green necklace
or up to the mountains and enjoy the
lifestyle it defines Issaquah compared
to any other community in this area that
was the goal and for those of you that
haven't read the central plan vision in
a while this is it in the plan there on
our website but it started out with the
overarching that that has what Ken
talked about is the the strip malls and
office buildings to turn that into
cohesive neighborhoods and it had the
guiding principles were the environment
housing sense of community
transportation and essential services
economic vitality and innovation that
was the overarching for all of central
and then each of them each district had
its own existing conditions in it you
know to that what Ken had what we had
put together were talked about nutrition
if you go if you scroll up to the the
vision itself and strip malls and office
buildings into what we've come up with
- where was that this is into a closely
aligned series of mixed-use
neighborhoods that create maintain
exceptional quality and it's interesting
they got changed from a series of
neighborhoods to a more cohesive
neighborhood so vision wise when it came
to the plan it was just one neighborhood
at least then what got changed by time I
went through councils so right in terms
of talking about do we need ten
neighborhoods right first what with what
exact document was given to city
councilor was presented to City Council
that they said this isn't meeting our
idea of what the neighborhood stuff
would be revamped for the moratorium you
mean recently like last yeah I don't
know if we take that out of our hat it
had the the new that had what it is now
it had what it would be in the future
it had implementation strategies on how
to get there it was sort of a three-part
piece oh it wasn't what for the original
task force had done correct it was
something it was the evolution of and
was that based on UPC's work or based on
it and it was the open house that you
all had in March it was the focus groups
with the property owners and business
owners it was the two outreach meetings
at Atlas and at the foo barn and then we
moved it all together and tried to
figure out what the feet what it was
telling us about what the community
wanted for the future now the reason I
bring that up is because I'm not sure
whether City Council and generally
people are having more problem with the
presentation and the way the information
was conveyed so that was clear concise
descriptive etc or whether it's because
they didn't like the content the content
didn't meet their needs
and so I think that ultimately is the
big question that needs to be answered
before we try and come up with a
document that satisfies that well in in
my humble opinion if you all get a
document that you're happy with then you
help us go to the council and say we
felt strongly that this is what central
needs to get through the next 10 to 20
years as well as insisted me on
something so I think so to be clear and
we can put the documents that we shared
with council committee if we didn't want
we didn't want you guys to start with
something we wanted you two guys to
start with a clean slate you know what I
heard was that some of the neighborhoods
there's some clarity on what they're
going to be for example Pickering you
know you've got we talked about this a
little bit on the tour last night you
know Pickering you've got Costco and
Costco's continual kind of increase in
space as the driver for that
neighborhood and so talking about what's
going to happen in Pickering it's pretty
easy to have a conversation about that
you go over the other side of the
freeway and you go to Gilman
neighborhood or Tibbets Valley likewise
I think you know there's there's enough
that we know about land owners and about
things that are going on that you can
have a pretty pretty concise
conversation about well what's that
going to look like in ten years or 20
years and that's just going to depend on
market not on other variabilities but
then you get to some of the other
neighborhoods and it gets a little bit
squishier you know like Lake Sammamish
neighborhood which right now is three
office buildings a mini storage motel
and an IHOP and a gas station you know
okay what is that what's it going to be
twenty years from now maybe it's the
same thing and if the vision says that's
what it is and that's great maybe that's
what the vision should say so these are
the conversations we need to have when
we get down to that grain of detail
but I don't know that an expectation
that every neighborhood assuming there's
still ten at the end of the day is gonna
be mixed use and Belltown it's just not
going to be and I think this is part of
the conversation we need to have so
that's what I've heard
now understand this has only seen a
conversation with three council members
because it's really been even though we
did a presentation at a cow the
committee of the whole
really this level of conversation only
happened to land in Shore which is three
council members and not the whole seven
so part of what we want to get out of
this is you guys and us kind of getting
to a point where we think all right you
know what
either the visions are great the way
they are don't touch them or we go
through a process here where we change
them and then we bring something forward
to the council and say you may not
completely understand these or even
agree with these but we as staff and the
community feel like this is where these
need to go with that level of buy-in I
think we'll get the council to agree to
adopt the revisions to divisions so we
can start wherever you want to Lindsay
if you want to start with looking at
what an example of what we shared with
the committee we can do that or we can
continue to have this conversation and
kind of flow through some of the
discussion points candidly what I would
say is some of it was actual verbage so
some of the words that we put in some of
those documents needed to be wordsmith a
bit but it was really more philosophical
I think is kind of the the wall we hit
at committee I think one of the reasons
of the moratorium is because council and
probably the rest of the community
wasn't content with what was happening
and so I think what the council wants is
a more definite
how we're going to get to where we're
going to get to and what specifics is it
that we want to get to so instead of
going through all this other stuff why
don't we start with each one of the ten
to see if it works what it is some
people understand what's in it and I
know that some of the committee members
are at a loss because they did not go
over the tour yesterday and I think that
once they do that it's going to make it
a lot more alive to them so that they're
going to be able to see it a little bit
better
so can we I know some of the task force
members will disagree with me but Atlas
was not completely against the CIP CIP
looked at using that list maybe not in
that location but atlas as what the CIP
was going to give us one of the things
that really colors aside one of the
things that really hit the community was
we don't want that here we're not ready
for that here and and I think I have to
agree with Lindsay yeah I think you
better look at what do you want the
future here to look like and what do you
want that timing to be a lot of people
live here because it isn't downtown
Bellevue and what CIP is doing is saying
we're going to make it's a quote more
like downtown Bellevue because we want
to conserve the area between here and
the mountain as what it is and the
people that would move in there and
build houses along the freeway should
move here where the services are and the
transportation and stuff and our instead
of moving out there and I think that's
the bigger decision that that the whole
city needs to look at how are we ready
for Atlas and the other growth that's
coming because that isn't contrary to
the CIP is just we didn't have the
regulations in place to make it exactly
what the CIP should be
if we were gonna go through the the ten
different neighborhoods
can I offer one prior suggestion maybe
before because I asked Trish she has to
send questions in advance and what I
wanted to know is if we had this vision
and this plan what went wrong on Atlas
and Gateway why did those happen and
where are the gaps out and not to blame
anybody and not even to criticize just
how do we do better going forward what
went wrong in those developments
happening it allowed that to happen
and how do we then and then ten
neighbourhoods as we go through those
make sure we don't end up with that
again well I think that main reason they
happen was because we didn't have the
codes written and the requirements
specific for that for the city to say no
you can't do that because of this
because it's in writing and we've agreed
to it and I'm hoping that by doing going
through and finding each one what you
really need you're going to come up with
the city's going to come up with those
codes so yeah oh absolutely
I mean I think that's what the City
Council wants that's what the moratorium
was you know we don't want this what's
going to happen and I think the second
thing of that is people of the community
have to understand where you're going or
what the city is planning and they can't
just wake up one morning and there's a
12 story building in the middle of
somewhere they have to know what's going
to be around it and why it's there and
how it's going to be handled so I'm
gonna watch these the last minute
landing the shores but I would like to
understand what was land insurance
objections itemized them and like
five bullets what was their objections
and how can we work with those
objections and maybe use those to guide
us through because they obviously have
if highlighted certain areas thanks ed
this is not acceptable so what are those
I think and I'm not putting words in
their mouth but I feel very blessed to
be a long-range planner because I think
about many many years all the time I
mean that's how my brain works but most
people think about planning a vacation
you know planning a wedding planning an
event which is like a year out maybe and
so that's as far as a lot of folks can
think and so when you say five years you
know or you say ten years and people
just I think and again not putting words
in their mother I think they were having
troubles thinking that far ahead with
words and pictures and it was hard for
them to really see what would happen out
there based on words and pictures
because again as Ken said there's no
code yet we have implementation
strategies that that would help us get
to the vision but though we don't have
those now we just know what they're
going to be in order to strengthen the
vision to make it happen and I think
that's the struggle that they were
having is there were words and pictures
and things we were going to do but the
whole package wasn't there for them to
to see and I think if we would have said
well what if we have somebody that just
came in the door and the permit center
and said I do want to do that use there
you know would that make it go wow you
mean really we could get that because I
think there was the feeling of would we
ever even get that are they impossible
like you mentioned weed in the tour are
some of the visions impossible well we
don't think they are we think they can
happen and so I think that was the
hardest part for them was to think out
20 years or even 10 years to these
things happening to two more
neighborhoods having the trails and the
ways to get around that's not just a car
you know because that's a budget item at
it has to get into the parks plant you
know there's pieces there's ways that
you have to get there but when you think
of Old Town when we did old town 20
years ago we wanted a big park now we
have confluence we wanted more community
buildings downtown we have the community
center we have the library now we have
improvements to the fish hatchery I mean
also many things in Old Town came true
because we made the vision and we just
started pounding through the budget
items through the work plan items and a
lot of really great things happen for
Old Town and we think the same can
happen for Central Church with that what
you just explained is a wish list of
items I think that should be in the
visions for each district or
neighborhood a wish list of what should
be there right and then I also think
each neighborhood and a at a high level
we should have a success checklist what
does success look like if we get these
things this is successful and also an
implementation checklist this will this
district or these neighborhood visions
will not work unless these things are
done which includes standards and codes
right and so I think that we could
clarify those things that tells City
Council here's the options that need to
be taken here's how we're going to
measure this here's what success looks
like so can i clarify for in terms of
vision statements it's never a wish list
what it is is a picture of the future
it's like the Microsoft a computer on
every desktop right it's that kind of
picture and how you get there has to be
has to be planned through that's where
you do short term goals and long term
goals and so actually I was going to
suggest that whenever you do vision for
different team
different commissions for any purpose
you need an a really experienced
facilitator because it seems like
they're there their checklists or
they're just lists of stuff to do and
that is really not what a vision is a
vision is is designed to to be a
something aspirational as you had on
that list but it's it's a vision of the
future what what is this going to look
like you know twenty years from now and
and right now that central is the qua
vision is not really a vision you know
it's it just it's just a bunch of stuff
and and that's not really what we're
trying to do we're trying we have a
vision of what the the city should look
like right or we want to pull that out
of people and so you honestly I'm
thinking attend neighborhoods and this
group in in a short period of time it's
it's really not doable in my opinion I
think I think you need working sessions
to get to that place and working
sessions like brainstorming type working
sessions that's just my right well we're
gonna start brainstorming in a little
bit but yeah yeah good thoughts you know
as we're baking this like we've been
talking a lot about the growth 7,000
it's kind of a target and I think the
reality is if built out to capacity we
could be looking at something far larger
than 7,000 we look out 20 years from now
it's entirely possible we could fit the
entire population of Issaquah and
Pickering so I think from a vision
standpoint we need to look much larger
than we're looking now I'm making sure
that we have the infrastructure to
support a much larger population because
the reality is I think we will get it to
get to the I gotta mention as I was
pointing out to Keith before the meeting
mr. claw is so special and unique
compared to any other community in this
region given the Issaquah Alps the
salmon streams Lake Sammamish access to
the Cascades
we'll have people crawling over each
other to get here just like I did in
1984 when I
to live here and we've seen that ever
since I moved here look at mystical
Highlands built out when I moved here
that was all big forested trees up there
talus the same way and those two
developments are hugely popular so we
need to dictate what we want we don't
let developers come in here and tell us
what they want to do we should be
telling them what we want to do totally
agree with you I think that might be
something good to have in the vision
particularly when we're an update the
paragraph that they can that you read to
us that the kickoff I think maybe make
it very clear that while the city is
still very clearly committed to
accommodating a pretty massive amount of
growth over the next 20-30 years make
very clear the cities this is a growth
center we're going to absorbing a
substantial amount of growth but make it
very clear the city's not interested in
having that growth immediately but first
making sure that we have the
infrastructure of air in place to
facilitate that growth not not not at
all back away from our commitment to
grow centralizer qua but to ensure that
with the city is making the investments
whether it be parks whether it be
infrastructure whether it be the school
district making sure that stuff gets
done not initially before but
concurrently with the growth because we
are in a position that we have met but
specially given that we've got I think
another 500 units still the building
Highlands and whatnot the city is very
much made its short term commitments to
the growth Management Act and so I think
we have room that if the city doesn't
grow as much over the next five or ten
years because we build busy doing things
like building bridges across 90 which
are very expensive will take time that's
fine and that that is very much in
accordance with the vision that there
that we may not get a massive amount of
growth in the next five to eight to ten
years insofar as the city is still
planning and building and investing for
a much larger amount of growth to be
coming in the 10 to 20 to 30 year vein
and I think that might be very helpful
to have that at the very beginning of
the vision
and put the for the City Council it's
because the city still needs to make
very clear to the region when you look
in the context of things like Metro
connects and the Sound Transit station
the city still very needs to continue to
show to the region that we're going to
turn this into an urban core of some
form that still needs it very much be
there but we're not unlike Bellevue
unlike you know the U district and in
Seattle that's not gonna be happening in
the next five years I might it might be
a little bit further down and then we're
just getting ready for when that growth
will come right and that's it along the
same lines of Lindsay's comments that
there you have short term items that you
want to do for your budgeting purposes
and then long term so that there's sort
of a whole journey if you will that
helps council and the community
understand how do you get how do you get
to the end yeah and I think I think when
I'm saying it would be great to frame
that first and then that leads to write
more tactical stuff SS as Lindsay
Lindsay was suggesting right to real
estate cycles away from this starting so
vision is what you're trying to be
mission is how you're going to would you
what do you do while you're trying to
get there so what you're talking about
is actually the a mission state long
with this yeah very much so and then
making it more clear than normally what
we want the city to look like but when
we want it to look like that and to make
clear that this is a long term vision
and that if it doesn't happen
immediately that we're okay with that if
we are going to lay strict vertical mix
use if the you know the economists that
he came and said were five to ten years
and that penciling out we're okay with
that because we still think it will
happen as long as the region keeps
growing so we're gonna set our
regulations so that when you know that
the financial metrics finally tilt
enough that it is worthwhile building we
you know we've got we've got the rules
ready then so there's some transit won't
be here till what 2040 - yeah so we
don't grow too fast I mean we got time
I'll be happy we start to build out by
2040 - can we stir this the right way
yeah
wisely I can't you know you're gonna
build out these ten sections and they're
gonna have all in buildings on it with
five or ten feet tall whatever
storeys tall they're not gonna come in
in 10 years and tear them down and start
over again you're looking at that long
range is what you're talking about right
now and and do you want 30,000 people's
in in in picker I certainly do not
before that train station is there okay
we're gonna open it up to what Joan said
to start throwing out ideas for each of
them and I want to just sort of not
narrow us but these were the criteria or
the categories that I missed whatever
that was that they that we were using to
sort of get our bold ideas our inspiring
ideas for each of these pieces for each
of the just neighborhoods so we're gonna
start and I have the existing visions if
we wanted to flash back to them at any
time but this is the overarching vision
and then Sammamish Park we remember
where Sammamish Park was it's directly
south of Lake Sammamish State Park and
this and the other piece to answer what
was confusing to the council is we had
current language it is this now and then
we had future language it will be this
to try to keep them keep it separate of
what's existing and what we hope it to
be and so we thought for you all tonight
we were just going to start with what it
is jump in jump in we had one question
was do we need to
just drinks is that the right number now
you have to go through all ginned and
then at the end say you know we think we
really just need three or four so maybe
we should have the question first about
okay because we thought that once you
started thinking about little and big
and building out and not maybe then that
would spark the question of wow this
this is really like its neighbor it
really doesn't need to be on its own you
could go the other way if people know
that districts well enough to know each
one of these districts in a different
light simply because Keith would say you
know we can't do this because this owner
is here and he's going to do this and
and the creek is here and it's it's you
know whatever but when you look at the
decisions that you made for the ten
areas they are completely different and
I don't think that you can make join a
couple of them together because you're
going to lose the ability to make them
different and you don't want a thing
over the city where everything looks the
same you want some variety and some
excitement and so I don't see any
personally I don't see any that you can
get rid of so just two I'd like to kind
of recap because we've I feel like we've
been saying a lot of the same things and
kind of working our way up and down the
spectrum of vision to implementation and
talking about all these different things
and I feel like if we don't start at the
top at the city level of what is the
vision for the city and work our way
down to a more granular level that we're
gonna end up kind of in this loop and
we're gonna get to some conclusion and
then come back to something that kind of
effects that so if I could recommend
kind of
action plan based on what we've talked
about so far if we could agree on kind
of a city vision if you will in in terms
of central Issaquah so before we get
there kind of the city at the city level
and maybe that's already established and
we say okay great move on and then the
central vision and then agreeing on the
central boundary what what we're talking
about for central what that is and then
looking at districts and district
visions and then establishing those or
agreeing with those district boundaries
district two uses and district features
and then from there once we've got all
that kind of established or agreed upon
then we could you know at later dates
jump into the implementation of how do
we make sure that that all happens I was
gonna find a slide when did we go to cow
in 24 count visions oh thank you I'm
looking at the thing zone where is it
I'm just sleepy
would it be because I'm looking for we
made a slide that had what central
Issaquah is that I think John would get
to what we think central Issaquah the
purpose sort of of central Issaquah
within the whole city that would be the
comprehensive plan can because I think
you need to look at the overall city
like he's saying because one of the
things I heard people saying before is
we want growth I think one of the things
you've got to look at where we are today
and with our commitment to growth as far
as housing we're almost there so I think
when we start looking at I'm saying you
know five-year plan our five-year plan
with a central area plan shouldn't be
housing per se it may be mixed use to
have some but we would need to be
concentrating on the infrastructure the
parks the getting the green necklace
those things implement it because this
is the only place we have to deal to
help make the infrastructure for the
rest of the city so that's why I think
it's really critical that you
concentrate first on the city vision and
seeing based upon where the city is now
we may want to change the central area
vision to make sure it includes those so
we get then in the central area vision
what we really need long-term it would
be great if we had the time to do that
but the charge from the council is to
only do central and I pulled up a slide
here can you is it big enough to see but
this talks about what there it is of
what generally the vision for Central is
quo was when we created it then and
pretty much what it is now it's it's it
has our regional growth center that we
applied specifically for to get more
transit and transportation funding so we
had to agree to certain growth targets
in the urban in the regional growth
center so it is that I mean that's it's
undeniable it's the balance of jobs and
housing recreation and entertainment
opportunities that goes with being urban
as Joe mentioned it was the new
direction for the central part of the
city so that that all the neighborhoods
on the hillsides could remain intact and
not have to be more dense sustainable
development of course has always been a
big deal to inseok well we've always
been on the cutting edge of that and the
other piece that Ken mentioned was that
you'd be able to get to your daily need
be urban enough that you'd be able to
get to your daily needs within walking
biking or transit that you wouldn't
always need a car would be very much
multimodal and we had all sorts of
projects even and once we hit the
standards of projects that were needed
to help create the infrastructure so
that when the people and all the jobs
are here that they're able to get around
and then as Ken mentioned the green
necklace was the park system and trail
system that is so important for an urban
area so that it doesn't feel as urban
and so this these were sort of the
building blocks the
we believe still exists for the purpose
of Central obviously central Issaquah is
not going to be a bedroom community it's
where all the development is supposed to
go so that the existing neighborhoods on
the outlier and the rural area - doesn't
have to be infringed upon so I think
this is the starting spot we can't go
back to the full city vision yet until
we you know annually amend the comp plan
if we want to do that next year we're
certainly it's certainly in our power to
look at that but our charge this month
and perhaps next month if we can't get
it done is to revisit the central vision
yes so I guess I guess rather than I
made it sound like I want to rework all
that I'd like to use that to inform all
of our discussions below that so
establish what is the city of its akua's
vision right what is the overall vision
and then use that to inform our
discussion about central and all the
districts make sure that it is always
aligning with the level above right and
I would say that center again and maybe
I maybe I need a translator is the
purpose of central was to be the growth
area to take the state targets that we
were given for jobs and housing so it
didn't have to go in the rural area and
it didn't have to go in the existing
neighborhoods or on the hillsides right
so that's the function of central right
but that's the vision of central needs
to be established in alignment with the
vision of the city yeah like the word
the word urban doesn't show up anymore
earth suburban on that page right those
are kind of words that yes thank you for
whoever said that so we try to describe
what it means so that people don't just
flinch and say you scare you you know we
try to describe what does it mean is it
mid-rise buildings is it blocking - your
job into your and you know you're in the
profession it's not scary to you but to
some folks it's it's a
wellyou're yes you are okay so this
counts because I think yes I didn't I
didn't get my w2 I think I think that
might be part of the problem because
when we very at the very beginning were
kicked off and everyone kind of named
Jack Atlas in gateway and how terrible
they were and that's why we need to do
this but I don't I don't think we're all
I don't I don't think it's clear what's
wrong with those because I think part of
the reason that people freaked out is
they didn't realize that centralist core
was going to be transforming from a
suburban strip mall to an urban core so
I think I would almost counter argue
that I think we think we need to be more
explicit about this if that's the vision
that's not the vision and we don't need
that but if they did the vision I think
we need to lean in that into that right
and make that very clear so that people
understand what's coming right and I
think there was a five-year community
process to do that and then the the task
force took another year after that
before council actually adopted it so it
was a good six or seven years we worked
with the community to try to figure out
what we were going to be what central
was going to be in the future you know
we are we looking to change that I'm not
from scratch are we looking at are we
lead or refinement because we've already
applied and received the designation to
be a regional center to unwind that
would be I think difficult we could
unwind it if all of a sudden but that
would take a lot of so I think no one's
objecting to the gross sinner
designation but you can still be a gross
Center and have a discussion of whether
that's going to be a suburban form or in
urban form sure you wouldn't be able to
get the densities and if you if you make
it suburban but you could still try to
do it that way but you could I don't
think any one one suit but you could
wear I could make it very clear that
it's gonna be a car centric parking
garages and office towers you can do
that
knowing one step but because the one one
said I think we need to be more explicit
that we are looking to create an urban
form particular in the center of Central
School because I think also one of the
things is tippets valve Ali Pickering
and maybe some of the other ones the in
division is to be more urban but for
some of the other ones it is I would
argue a more suburban a very walkable
transit but still very still a very
suburban form and so I think maybe that
language doesn't need to be used right
and we can for each of the districts we
just haven't gotten there yet okay I
don't I don't think we should soft-pedal
the language either I think we should be
more transparent with it and if it needs
to be stronger to convey the message to
the public so that they don't they're
not shocked when they see the next and
story building going the next atlas
because I think people don't trust
what's happening now with Atlas because
they caught them off guard
they sure we approved in the CIP and we
said this is what we want but then when
we built it as like oh my gosh what the
heck's going on in our city were growing
like crazy and it's one building I think
we need to be stronger with the language
and be more upfront with the direction
of cities going with the growth that
people are not just on board with it but
you set the right expectation instead of
soft-pedaling right I agree all I care
about is that the central
Issaquah vision is included with the
neighborhood visions as an introduction
to it so that we're not presenting
orphaned neighborhoods right that they
are within a larger plan right that's
all I care about right and just once how
they exist today but you're right yeah
one of the comments as far as a little
bit of feedback as far as with gateway
and having been on
we were looking at with the districts as
have them all be somewhat
self-sustaining and what's the gateway
what was the envision there was have
more mixed-use small retail small
business and what we got was all
apartments so they're still dependent
upon having to get in their car and go
someplace and so that's not gonna you
know what we got out of gateway was not
something that's self-sustaining and
people can stay there
nor is it anything it's really
complementing the existing neighborhoods
because there's really no room for parks
and all and there's no really
identification for it for transit so one
of the things when we look at the
districts is I think we also need to
make sure that the daily needs can be
done and then it's a sustainable
development meaning that it's
self-sufficient and you don't have to
leave your neighborhood every day to go
to work necessarily or go to retail so I
know I think I'm sorry can so I just I'm
just gonna go ahead and say that we're
not gonna make a thousand acres of
self-sustaining neighborhoods it's just
not gonna happen there's gonna be
certain parts of central Issaquah that's
going to be walkable to services so
Gateway and I don't need you to agree
with me Mary but my opinion is Gateway
you most people will get in their cars
but you have a boardwalk that's gonna
connect you to hila which then will be
able to be walkable to the grocery store
assuming it stays there now it may not
stay there a train station may take it
out but you know those are things that
you know are just gonna happen but you
know what I can tell you is the market
for that area for retail is is not there
it's not gonna be there in 10 years it's
not gonna be there in 20 years because
there's not enough vehicular traffic and
not enough rooftops to support retail in
that area and so if if we're gonna
really look at these I think we need to
be realistic in terms of what the
appropriate land-use is now and what it
will be in the foreseeable future during
this plan ray
because I think if we expect 1100 acres
of beige it's just it's not going to be
that and and we can spend as much time
on that conversation as we need to so on
gateway just quickly let me reiterate
what the past vision was from our prior
plan because we got just the opposite
create a signature gateway to Issaquah
it's a Western Eastern going entryway to
Issaquah this grand view of the Issaquah
Alps
beautiful and the the vision was that
there might be a little entry sign
welcome to Issaquah mystical Alps made
out of stone something that looked
attractive not apartments right up to
the edge of i90 create a signature
gateway that maintains significant open
space views from i-90 enhanced Tibbets
Creek Snyder Creek surrounding wetlands
and buffers while incorporating them
into the development used natural
materials such as timber and stone in
the building and in the design to
reinforce Pacific Northwest identity
along with Evergreen emphasis none of
that on atlas it was similar I'm not I
wasn't concerned about the height that
was right with the plan I'm okay with
the height but when I met with that
developer before they even got their
permit to build I told him and it was a
worse design that I said looked like
Soviet apartment gulag complex to me it
was a terrible architectural design and
they did slightly improve it it's not as
bad as it was when I saw it but to me I
said that's the kind of design that made
me long in Issaquah Highlands as a more
modern urban style development but that
doesn't belong down on the flats of
Issaquah where stone timber that kind of
thing is more appropriate so those were
my big problems I've had with those two
developments so so I think that's why
we're having this conversation so so
there was a expectation for Western
gateway on what we add now is we know
what we've got in terms of all of it
except for a couple small parcels
we have also the addition of most likely
noise walls from wash dot that are going
to get built in front of that which will
again affect that the vision that you
had about kind of green stepping back to
Newport it's clearly not going to be
that so the question I think the bigger
question for Western gateway is if that
is a Western gateway for our city in
terms of eastbound i-94 where's that
part of the vision that needs to be you
know erased and that's that's part of
this conversation right yeah oh why did
we allow it if it's totally it's totally
not substandard it's these are these are
really what decision is and why did we
even allow it to what what surveilled so
so part of it is maybe we need to
further define what it is right so when
we said we'd if we allowed it is it
three story basically three story woody
walk-ups and that's not spectacular or
even unique is it that it didn't have
the the green buffer to I 99 so what
have any of the attributes that that can
that the vision actually stipulated it's
there boxes you know covering every
square inch so if I could one of the one
of the misconceptions about the city and
it's something that I recognized real
well is the CIP is only as good as the
history you have with it everybody on
the task force could have looked at the
development plans and said no no no that
doesn't fit
city staff did not put the time and
energy and anything else into the CIP
given the amount of work they have they
they can't they have to go by the
regulations and the regulations didn't
include the visions the way that did it
was all put together very quickly to get
out and and that's the whole idea of
going back and starting all over is so
that the vision and the codes and stuff
can be put together and that everybody
is aware of it so next time somebody
comes in it is it a planner who's only
been here for six months or two years
that isn't familiar was the CIP going
through the code the same well the code
says you can do this let's do that and
then the community go wait a minute what
happened to what all this work we did
so that's part of getting the public
involved and getting everybody involved
so you know what you are actually
getting so everybody knows it because if
everybody doesn't know and it's just in
the code that's all the city has to go
with for developers which means we have
to change the code to get to where we
are and that was reason that's why we
got gateway that's why we got so so
before we get to code because codes
layer three right so what Ken said for
Western gateway is not what this says
frankly what this says is create an
attractive gateway ok so you know what
that developer says my project is
attractive ok so attractive is probably
not the word that we should have used
here it doesn't convey I think what Ken
said was the task force's vision for
this neighborhood
well too it's a quad that maintains
significant open space views for my
ninety ok well I can see Bergsma for my
ninety that's a significant open space
view right I mean so all I'm saying is
the way this is written if you didn't
have you know five years of taskforce
time under your belt this is hard to
implement I think
yeah I'm not trying to blame I just want
to say how do we do better right but to
implement what we really wanted to have
happen that's like we don't get that the
problem with gateway is as you said
that's 20 year old design boxy old
apartments with outdoor parking that
covered up a productive wetland for the
record I didn't say that and we can do
better it's my point we must do better
so I'm going to state that at the
beginning of this district vision
presentation to City Council that we
need a statement that answers the
question of why the previous district
visions neighborhood visions did not
achieve our goals and how we can do
better so a statement such as the
previous district visions were too
watered down and did not have a clear
whatever to describe what needed to be
and we're not followed up by codes and
standards to solidify those visions so
that they were actually implemented so I
think that is what City Council wants to
see as the answer to why didn't this
work before and what are we going to do
to make it work and so then by seeding
what didn't work what needs to do and we
say now we're presenting a clear thing
but it's up to you to do X Y & Z right
right and I think you hit the nail on
the head on why what we give them what
you give them can't just be the vision
as all Fiat Talks because that's not
going to be enough for them they want to
see how it's going to progress into
existence because the vision didn't work
for them last time so as as wonderful as
a pure vision is I think we need to have
all the the pieces there for them to be
comfortable with it and for probably for
us to be comfortable with it as well can
we can we start one just for fun because
we're into our our two we were trying to
be really good with time so we would be
here first so late I think the first one
we picked so Trish yes so what I did was
I pulled up Minneapolis vision and and
it says and this is actually a true
vision statement it says Minneapolis is
a growing and vibrant world-class city
with a flourishing and economy and a
pristine environment where all people
are safe healthy and have equitable
opportunities for success and happiness
and then they've got strategic direction
the first one is living well so keep
Minneapolis is safe and livable and has
an active and connected way of life it
has one Minneapolis disparities are
eliminated so all Minneapolis residents
can partner participate and prosper a
hub of economic activity and innovation
businesses big and small start moves
stay and grow here great places natural
and built spaces work together and our
environment is protected and the last
one is a city that works city government
runs well and connects to the community
it serves so if you're looking at vision
the the reason why things don't work is
because the vision is not really a
vision it's a bunch of stuff just thrown
together right and that's what happened
so if we want to do this properly we
need to actually do it as a vision
statement it's my opinion I disagree and
I'd say that the existing vision has you
mentioned jobs we've got environmental
economic vitality we have transportation
sense of community is the I think we hit
a lot of those things because all cities
have to hit all those things I think
it's super
the vision for CIP that the new one that
we did the new one for cow because
that's what I pulled up this one these
the whole thing so you know the the one
with the picture this one yeah but do we
pick this one for the whole sub area
some area it would be how many would be
in which version was that in the cow
landed Shore go to land ashore yeah
no whisper
don't look too hard at this that might
make you nauseous oh that's because it
popped it popped down it does this to be
redone wait a second
looking at information out can you
specifically tell us what exactly we are
supposed to do today with us this are we
looking for a 2.0 version of this are we
looking to optimize this what counsel is
hoping to get from PPC are a revisiting
of the vision so that it works better so
that it's clear so that it gets us the
community what we want in central
Issaquah that can be whatever it is that
you want it to be it could have the
different steps of long term and short
term implementation with it it could
have pictures it can have language with
primary uses and all of those pieces
because remember other parts of the
moratorium work plan are trying to solve
the other pieces of the frustration of
like Architectural Review and urban
design is one of the the moratorium
items that's going to fixed how you know
like the part that can read the building
materials the architectural styles that
we put in the visions but we didn't
regulate them so they could build
anything so some of those other pieces
are getting corrected in the moratorium
work plan so the CIP we're really
looking at a 1.1 revision as opposed to
a 2.0 revision whatever that is
don't speak that language he wants to
know are we are we supposed to create a
new one from scratch are we supposed to
take what we have and just kind of
evolved in you could I would say you
have to start with the existing
conditions I mean they're not a vision
less existing conditions the existing
document you don't have to start with it
so we took so I'm gonna now go all the
way back to 6:35 so you know part of
this was we spent a bunch of time a
little bit with you guys but a bunch
with stakeholders we met with businesses
from each neighborhood we had a couple
neighborhood meetings Mary was it one I
know that we had it atlas and what we
heard we also tried to evolve it from
what it was based on what we heard some
of the criticisms or critiques that we
heard from the council and so what we
did was as Trish mentioned earlier there
were these five kind of topics that
seemed like it they wanted to be more
specifically addressed than in the
previous versions of the neighborhood
visions so what we did is we updated the
vision statement at the very top for
both the sub area and then for each
neighborhood located within but then we
we identified some of the existing
conditions so this middle part which has
kind of our topical areas you know I
think it needed to tell a story of what
we've got today and what we think is
going to happen because then that
ultimately led to what we thought was
the implementing strategies at the end
and I think this is somewhat in parallel
to what Lindsay suggested earlier which
is okay what's your vision and then what
do you what do you think is going on
with each of these and then what do you
need for success and that's what these
implementing strategies were at the
bottom and so we did that for each of
the neighborhoods and I think we
exploded the council committees brain
so whether or not this is the right
structure so there's there's a whole
conversation about is this the right
structure and I think we should talk
about that because this structure is
very different then I can flip well I
don't know which of the 12 tabs we have
open is the old structure but we could
pick up the old one and say okay here's
what it used to look like here's what it
looks like now are we going in the right
direction just from a structural
standpoint and then we can talk about
the actual meat that's on the bones and
did we get that right is it not right
when we start to talk about some of
these you know in terms of unpacking the
green necklace within each neighborhood
you know Ken and I talked a little bit
earlier about you know the green
necklace has been on the table for a
long time now and it's really a lot of
people say I don't know what that is I
don't know what that means and that part
needs to get unpacked and part of it's
happening through the park plan that's
going through right now with the parks
department but this is so this is what
this looks like I think we were kind of
nibbling around the edges so here's kind
of a peek behind the curtain but you
know here's the vision for the sub area
and you know whether you want to start
kind of wordsmithing this where do you
think this is you know I don't want to
start talking about Minneapolis although
I appreciate you know the access to the
Internet we have it was an example so
they've clearly done a lot of work to
get to that place sure that was just an
example well and there was a lot of work
I think to get to this place now whether
this is still right or not
I think we need to have that kind of
conversation
but I think that you know I think if
again we were trying to kind of give you
guys kind of free rein to have
conversations about this the way you
wanted it to but it seems like we kind
of have fooled around in a circle a bit
and maybe we need to actually dig into
some concrete examples to see you know
what do we think you know it's actually
I thought knock them down as far as
getting this thing done
and wanted to meet I think it's very hot
for a tional this is almost a taskforce
this is almost a committee that needs to
sit down and dive into this multiple
sessions and tear it apart and create a
$2 document this is not something we can
do in two nights we might be able to do
something with it that takes it forward
and I would suggest instead of going
into any of the individual neighborhoods
is just to take a look at the type of
information that's there and say is
something missing and do are we
conveying our needs with the function of
that document and the type of content
that is there before going into words
nothing I think we need to understand it
we're not there we're nowhere there well
so I think we three would say we
understand it because we spend a couple
years on it and personally I'm
comfortable with what's documented I
think although some of it appears to
have changed and I'm not maybe
up-to-date but for me the biggest thing
I think needs to happen is to tell the
council that the vision and we can go
through it all maybe that's what we need
to do is just look at it but assuming
and I think it's still good that the
vision is good the biggest message is to
make the vision a reality you got to
have the backup to make it implementable
which means codes regulations policies
and enforcement and then you've got to
have the staff educated enough so when a
developer comes in and it says this is
what I want to do they say no that's not
in keeping with our vision here's here's
what that says and oh by the way this is
what our code says so you can't do what
you would like to do like you did in
Renton because this is this a quad we do
it different here and we let things
develop the way we want them to go
not the way someone tells us they want
to do it that's what we've got to get to
and there's got to be rules code policy
behind it to make it implementable or
it's just an aspirational vision that
someone can legally say I'm not doing it
and we won't be able to do anything
about that
I mean I think I think all of this is
probably pretty good still I know we we
felt really good when it was done
[Music]
everybody kind of knows where we want to
go the moratorium is over at the end of
December when you think about that do
you want to have something in place by
the end of December or do you just want
to spend another 15 meetings deciding
how to write the vision what words to
put in it and have builders go in and
build whatever they want what is the
decision here so so can I add this can I
see something about that so visions
don't change right they're not supposed
to change so they can go up to 20 years
it's code that so you have to make it
big enough that you can adjust your code
as you go but it's it's it doesn't
change the vision the vision has to
always remain the same and and and I
feel like we're confusing those those
two things the code and all the
implementation stuff can't change as
long as it's in it's consistent with the
vision but the vision is what the
picture what we think is the question
look like absolutely and and how we
evolve that with the code is fine but
saying that the that we have to have a
vision in place because of code stuff is
is activies very short-sighted right but
I think so I don't disagree but here we
have eleven visions right we don't just
have one vision we have a vision for the
sub area but then we have
and sub visions and I think and I think
what we're being asked to look at is one
is this vision for the sub area still
okay and I agree with you out Thea it's
I mean it's been five years four years
seven years six years somewhere in there
six seven simple somewhere between four
and seven
you know I that's a short amount of time
this is a thirty year plan you know four
to seven years is short period of time
so you know I think we can look at this
vision and say you know is anything
changed is there any reason why this is
not what central Issaquah is or should
be thirty years from now that should be
a fairly quick conversation because
that's really high level that's that's
like two hundred thousand feet but then
we're gonna dive down to fifty thousand
feet and look at each neighborhood and
say okay now based on that list that put
up earlier about what has changed in the
last number of years you know is the
vision changed for that neighborhood you
know I think Western gateway is going to
be the one we talked about the most
because so much of it is just an end
lost might be the right word I'm not
going on record to saying that either
you know but it's it's not turning out
the way that it was envisioned and so
that's that's a that's a conundrum that
I think we have to deal with here
because it would be hard for me to say
we should leave the vision for Western
gateway the same if we know we're not
going to get there and that's I think
where the council got kind of hung up so
let's start here this is our safest
space because it's our highest space so
again let's talk about construct first
before we get into the words so the
construct is vision summary at the top
which tells you where we think we want
to be or where we want to go so this
should be this should be the here's
where we want to be a long ways from now
for this area these individual subtopics
are meant to really pull out some
understanding because you know five
years from
when people say well why did this
neighborhood turn out the way it did you
know I think one of the things that we
felt pretty strongly about like for
example on mobility and connections its
regional traffic's a big deal it you
know we talked about it and on the tour
last night as we sat on East Lake
Sammamish moving very slowly even for me
and so you know so that's a reality and
that's that's something that's more
significant to this community now than
five years ago when this plan was put
together I think it was there but it was
maybe a little bit more subliminal than
it is now so it seemed like as we talked
about you know mobility and connections
what's the problem what's what's the
challenges facing central Issaquah you
know and and what's coming in terms of
we know there's a transit station coming
in 2041 and we know in 2026 we need to
start planning for where that's going
and so Okies before diving into mobility
and connections you asked does this
format meet the needs yes and I would
say the problem I have with how it is
right now is the verb tense differs
between is and will be yes and so I
would create I would either create two
sections under primary uses in
architectural style in each of the areas
that says current vision and do that or
I would standardize on one or the other
depending on what our needs are that's a
great comment
we knew that we knew that problem
existed thank you though
and then ultimately from here getting
down to the bottom and then in terms of
structure so those kind of five
categories we're going to try to kind of
cover all everything in those five I'm
wondering how those align or overlap
with the guiding principles from the
currently adopted centralist quoi plan
witches environment housing sense of
community transportation and other
essential services economic vitality and
innovation so I don't I don't know how
those categories because those
categories are also used in the current
central Issaquah plan but kind of in a
different way I just want to make sure
that we're and it says that these
guiding principles were established by
the community so I want to continue to
use whatever is so let me go back to so
so John if you look at so here's what's
in the plan right now right alright so
what's in the plan right now is there's
here's our vision statements so again
pretty small so you know just from a
scope perspective you know we we fit two
neighborhoods on a page you know we have
primary uses we had key environment and
then mobility connections and we went
from there so we felt like we've kind of
unpacked it because you know environment
and green necklace although they're
interconnected they're very different
things
and placemaking was really not part of
the original construct but as we talked
to people in each neighborhood and our
friend from the Grange is here thank you
again John you know it became clear that
you know whether their businesses or
residents or visitor's in each area had
this like idea that hey there should be
something cool about our area something
distinct and something that's memorable
and so we felt like adding placemaking
if if we're gonna still have ten and I
think that's still a question for me
it's still a question for me Joan sorry
you know is there is there a place in
each neighborhood that you know is a is
memorable and I don't know we'll we'll
talk about that later so so I don't know
if I I don't know if that was a good
answer I think it actually is consistent
but is a little bit more
unpacked than the previous version I
think one of the areas that John
mentioned that was in whatever other
plan that is is economic development
which I'm not economic vitality yes I
understand
lace-making and architectural style
maybe that fits into either of those do
we feel like it does the guiding
principles that John was reading are the
overarching for all of central knowing
that if we're going to be the jobs
housing spot for the next 20 to 30 years
we would have to make sure that economic
vitality worked so it wasn't just
cranking out jobs or just cranking out
that we had to have a balance and it had
to keep our sense of place and the
environment as a right feeling so if
we're talking about these individual
neighborhoods we have to understand
whether the neighborhood is more
business ok
but I think that so I guess I have a
very broad definition of economic
vitality I guess I think if we do these
things right they will be economically
vital and you know especially if you if
you create a place you know that people
want to be then businesses will want to
be there it will have you know activity
and that's pretty much definition of
economic vitality right because then
businesses will want to be there people
want to live there success okay where
are we are you guys ready to go one
layer down at 8:20 and I throw out one
thing just as a comment for the for the
vision I think one of my piece of
feedback is the the spiel that I had a
little bit earlier about timeline
I think it might be able to throw a
reference to that in terms of the visual
is that sure I think at this level so at
the at the two hundred thousand foot
level you know if there wants to be I
don't know if we want to call it a
mission or if there's something that we
want to add that's at this level but not
at the neighborhood level yeah I think
even within the context of this vision I
think I have thrown in a sentence
somewhere this is something about how
like the vision is to invest so that the
growth will come but the stresses I
don't know I don't wanna do any
wordsmith you now but something along
those lines to make clear at the very
beginning that this is a we're trying to
tear ourselves up for growth not it grow
because those those are slightly
different things okay that's all just
one two three that off before yeah I I
think I think that's that's an okay I
think you know to kind of run statement
earlier and I think Lindsay was on that
page as well to put something in here
that describes why we went from vision
1.0 to 1.1 I think that is great because
three years from now somebody will
wonder why there was two versions of
this thing right because we'll all
forget it because some of us are old
forget things okay one more on the yet
big picture level is what I mentioned to
you earlier I'm a little surprised that
after all this time there still isn't a
plan or a route defined for what this
green necklace is there key elements of
it already in place the reindeer trail
the maple juniper trail Tibbits Valley
Park Lake Sammamish State Park I was I
was gonna make it similar comment I
think it would be great that if we're
gonna have a standalone page for each
neighborhood to have a standalone page
for the green necklace absolutely and
it's got to be defined now down to the
parcel and Route level or it'll never
it's got it you got to know if this
parcel gets developed we've got to have
a trail core it's I think that's that
would be the the long-term plan for the
part for the park departments I don't
think you want to get that granular but
I do think having an aspirational sketch
would be would be very helpful for the
purpose of making sense where are the
gaps and what are we gonna do to close
those gaps now otherwise it's not going
to happen
so that that needs to happen at the
large level the whole level because each
neighborhood refers to the necklace and
their particular piece but nowhere does
that whole necklace come together
tonight because I see the point the
point of the necklace is it as much to
navigate within the neighborhood just to
navigate between the neighborhoods
that's fast so so in the implementation
strategies at the sub area level and I'm
gonna guess with you this is woefully
inadequate based on what I and so I
think I think we're we're down to is yes
this should be an implementation of the
sub area plan of central Issaquah is to
Keith Keith I think you I think we have
the map if you look at not these pages
but yeah the printouts you have these
vague voting lines yes not the bubbles
but you've got green shaded lines I
think that's great I think I think I
would agree I think a bigger map of
those and then saying this is what we
have this is our intention here are the
gaps any of it even if the intention is
this very vaguely defined green
Photoshop I think that's I think that's
great I don't we need to have that first
yes and then we can then figure out what
parcels need be fill in but that's
that's not that's not vision making them
actually blocking that while you're
right at the vision level we need that I
want to get to the tactical level or it
won't have
and it isn't just the green necklace
it's then how do we connect the green
necklace to these Lake Sammamish Trail
the i-90 trail the Issaquah to preston
trail to Tiger Mountain to Spock
Mountain to Cougar we have all of that
defined or it's just not going to have
it totally but I think for the purposes
of vision you would just have bullet
points that say this needs to be
connected to this discipline is my point
being we can't just leave it at the
vision level it's got to get documented
quickly or we'll never make it happen I
yeah I don't I don't disagree I'm just
saying that's that sounds a lot like Oh
without an a requirements checklist
something that says here are the things
that the vision that need to happen for
the vision to be successful see you add
that those were the two I had the codes
of regulations of policies and then a
detailed layout of the green necklace
those are the two things I think are
absolutely essential to make this happen
success yeah I know I agree with that
okay yes we are okay
might I suggest that if we're going to
start with a neighborhood we start with
Pickering that seems to be the most
solidified that may be the easiest to
start with all right so the vision for
Pickering neighborhood is as a mixed use
neighborhood anchored by Costco's
international headquarters Pickering
farm and convenient access to the south
side of i-90 from new vehicular crossing
Issaquah Creek runs along the eastern
boundary of this neighborhood and serves
as a backdrop for Pickering trail that
connects to Lake Sammamish State Park as
well as Lake Sammamish regional trail in
addition convenient access to the new
Sound Transit light rail station will be
a significant catalyst for this
neighborhood there is a mix of vision
and current in there that makes it a bit
confusing yes yes so may I think maybe
tactically do the same thing that
Lyndsey suggested for the columns for
the vision have a
and a vision and just peel them apart
okay so besides kind of current and
future and so we can reconstruct that I
believe that's not and then it might be
helpful dad the new roads since that's
happening on the map or the point of the
map to show the current I think that
since those are since those are in
flight is this yes should we be should
we be critiquing this map not Batman so
when we're talking about the vision we
say yes Costco is there and there is
access but what is it going to be right
so I think I mean so right now what you
have is Costco takes a kind of this much
of the geography of this neighborhood
this is critical area along the east
side and you have basically a
single-story surface part retail for the
balance of the neighborhood you know as
we sat there and talked about this last
night you know the things that are
changing here as you guys talked about
there's a new road here at the East End
there's also likely going to be another
crossing that will connect this
neighborhood to Tibbets most likely
depending on how far east that crossing
happens you know the train station
whether it's on the south side or the
north side or in the right away it will
connect to both of these sides of the
freeway you will be able to get there
from there
can I ask why Pickering is a distinct
neighborhood from Tibbets Valley because
they're divided by a giant freeway but
if the vision is to bridge that divide
and we're gonna have a train station
that is for all intents and purposes in
the right-of-way the train station
should be at the center it could be if
the train station goes in the end I knew
right away which in my opinion I think
is both the most likely and I think the
most preferable why why don't we have a
vision that the Tibbets Valley and the
bickering neighborhoods become a single
urban neighborhood that yes there's a
freeway in the middle of it but you know
there's there's there's a freeway in the
middle of other downtown's and you're
able to bridge that it's not obviously
not preferred but could we have a we
have a vision that we that we stitch
these two neighborhoods together and
that the intent is they have a single
identity that's bridged I mean you can
you can easily build a beautiful light
rail station that makes it very easy for
people to move between the neighborhood
to have a common identity okay that's a
great suggestion and there are those the
two just for the neighborhoods districts
that have urban hub or yes I took a
zoning map I'm not sure who stole it
babbles I mean they would meet the urban
core the urban core is already so saying
something like our goal is for more
connectivity gained by having this light
rail and what a buildup in the other
areas what you think your social
initiative this just be one one district
because the question is do you want to
do it's not now but the vision is that
would become assumed because do you want
when you when you redevelop those
shopping centers that are on the south
side of the retaining pond do you want
those buildings facing the pond and
facing Costco or do you want them facing
the light rail station in my opinion I
think the vision is that the new
development in the western south western
half of Pickering should be facing I 90
same as the development and Tippett's
Valley should be facing AIA 90 since the
I think the light rail station will be
you cannot get more placemaking than
eleven eleven all rail station and so I
think if you have it as a single
neighborhood it needs to be stitched
together right now it's two
neighborhoods but the vision is that
it's a single neighborhood that's tied
together with with with the transit
station with at least one Road bridge
potentially an additional pedestrian
bridge and in you and you see in and
then the vision is to stitch together as
a single urban core that's been
surrounded by urban but not as dense
other neighborhoods that make up the
rest of Central Oklahoma so in in terms
of so what what are you trying to create
that is the vision everything I'm
hearing it seems more about how you
gonna get there and so the question is
so when you see it would you see it was
my vision it is it is
it's not a neighborhood yeah there's
urban core and there's outside the core
yes so what would you want to be able to
do or what would you want that the
flavor of that region to be you can live
work and play without it's not it's not
how you know what what pieces you're
gonna put in there what right whatever
and I get that but I think I think the
vision can be just as explicit as the
two neighborhood should become a single
neighborhood from a place making and
from a navigability standpoint well I
think the whole idea that the cinnabar
Barnes and Noble Big Lots then being
there in 30 years is pretty unlikely for
sure the vision might include and it
talks about housing but dynamic urban
multi-use multi-level retail housing
combination to create a thriving
neighborhood focused around the Transit
Center that bridges the gap between the
two neighborhoods on both sides of i90
something like that yeah is what popped
into my head because you want to make
sure the code is structured so that when
someone puts in a building they don't
orient it so the building is just trying
to get to the Sammamish Parkway to get
onto 90 right you want it to be facing
the freeway so that it's there so that
when the bridges and the hydro station
come that's four I mean I was just in
Hong Kong and it's fascinating that
every one of their train stops are real
there some way if you want to call it
that has all kinds of multi-level retail
and hotels and giant condos multi 80
stories high but also fantastic urban
parks built into all of that and they're
a perfect example of how to do it right
we need to follow that would it be a
fool to have something in the vision
that say that the code should be
structured to anticipate future transit
and be willing to tour that cuz I don't
because is that does that mention now I
mean cuz week is one because when this
was originally developed we didn't know
we're gonna light rail station right now
we are yep do we would to presuppose
roughly where that is and articulate
that that the code should anticipate I
think that's a great idea I was gonna
suggest the same things when this was
developed we didn't have st3 and we do
now so why don't you shut it now yes and
you're talking about making a focal
point that's almost you know like
monumental to them and they make it very
clear that that the division is that the
level station will be the focal point of
this of this neighborhood but the light
rail station
we won't know what's created create a
vision for because I think and I mean
it's combat as staff before I think the
city can make a decision of where the
light rail station is now and plan
accordingly because Sound Transit will
more or less put the station where the
city wants it with and we think the
economics make the most sense yeah but
yeah but the city's refer from from
house and transit works they very much
defer to the city's in terms of station
placement has
Sound Transit talked about an initial
stage station placement or any kind of
study your timeline so that so the Wow I
wants a preferred there so that I think
there's some words that I don't know
because it was Monday when I last heard
them so so that representative alignment
about that thank you
my gosh thank you son so the
representative alignment actually showed
the train station kind of on the south
side of the freeway kind of cutting into
the meadows which then freaked out all
the shop owners in the meadows so you
know I think the city has a much better
I'll just go ahead and share so right
now the freeway comes like this
900 goes over right if you were to
actually raise the grade of i-90 through
here you then can pull the lanes apart
which creates enough room for a train
station in between the lanes and it's
now up at you know 20 feet which allows
you to put that crossing that we all
want at whether it's 12 maple or
somewhere 10th that basically is going
to cut through jack in the box sorry
Jack in the Box you know but then that
stays that grade so now you don't have
big ramps on some sort of over crossing
because of the amount of land that we
would lose on both sides for those for
that elevated crossing is catastrophe
catastrophic that but so this becomes
now I think a vision that we can start
to kind of see the benefits of but what
you've got to do is the first piece of
the puzzle is you've got to get washed
dot to be willing to pooch their freeway
they're they're approaching the freeway
everything west of sr 900 so it's it's a
version and I don't think we should get
bogged down on the engineering
difficulties of it but the Tricia's
point earlier if you don't state that as
your vision then you don't spend the
resources advocating and lobbying for
that as an outcome right and you and
what happens is then Sound Transit says
then watch dot says we're leaving our
freeway that's the way it is you can put
an over crossing at 12 and then Sound
Transit says well we're gonna put the
train station here because it can't be
in the right away I mean so so it's it's
a so this is this is where I think
having a clear vision can definitely
benefit the city yeah I think I think
the long now
now is the time to say with the
preferred tradition is I mean that may
not be aware shakes out in 20 years it's
fine
but say word is now and so that washed
out and sound transit why not make
decisions and awareness of that totally
this we can't have a vision without
saying we think this is where it's gonna
be and this is how we're going to
accommodate it's it's a huge it's
definitely the grill in the closet right
I mean and to not address it seems hard
and I think and I think even more
important that is it needs to be very
explicitly called out so that the
council endorses it doesn't matter what
we think what matters is does the
council say yes this is what the city's
official vision is of the light rail
station so I think it also needs to be
very clear and called out so that it has
to as the full weight of counsel behind
it well and just as I said we don't let
developers come in and tell us what
they're gonna do we tell them we want
them to do the same thing with d-o-t &
Sound Transit we should tell them what
we want and they should serve us don't
forget the lid through Mercer Island on
i-90 when that was all created and the
beautiful forested overpasses and
everything and the nice sports field
complex on the lid it's a billion
dollars a mile that d-o-t spent for that
because the city demanded it
so if Mercer Island can do it so can in
supply I mean do we want to be that
ambitious and well putting something a
job at that to have to agree so yes and
no I mean I think yes we need to be we
need to figure out how to be as smart as
we can to write that vision statement
that talks about the location and the
benefits to our community but I'm going
to tell you that I'm gonna guess
councils probably not gonna want to
settle on a transit station location
based on what we've done in two nights
it's gonna probably it's gonna probably
want to be a little bit of a more
proactive process with maybe a few other
stakeholders so so what I would say is
let's set this let's tee this ball up
right and so that the steps and put some
clarity in the implementation piece that
says you know within the next two to
three years or two years you know these
conversations need to happen that
station needs to land so that this
community can get in front of the
conversation and not have go back to
Lindsey's checklist I think a checklist
is a station station location needs to
be determined in the short-term the
vision is we might want to put in there
in that requirements once that decision
is made
revisit these two neighborhoods that are
gonna be most related to that or what
neighborhood I'm also going to suggest
that I really like your idea of having
all of the urban core as one
neighborhood which is Samaras Park
Pickering hila Tibbets
and a small section of Gillman I think
it fits I'm not sure about some image
part but let's let's let's talk through
it okay all right that's on the table so
you have the train station now what do
you plan on putting in those two areas
so I think from a primary use
perspective I think what we talked about
I think right now so right now Pickering
is commercial and retail and I think
that as we talk about areas that can be
walkable that can't have all the
services in them clearly for me
Pickering's one of those areas so what's
missing and Pickering is residential and
as we talked about last night we got a
property issue related to that but
assuming we all agree that there should
be residential in Pickering then one of
the implementation strategies one of the
successes is to remove the covenant
restriction that doesn't allow
residential on that property because
right now it is not allowed and it takes
100% of the property owners to agree to
allow residential before it can go there
so so that's that's that's something
we'd have to work on it doesn't happen
by
so and if frankly Lowe's won't do it
unless there's a lot of pressure put on
them now if st3 is going to put in a
light rail somewhere and around this
area whether it's out on the south side
with a crossing that's going to be a
magnet for residential so it only makes
sense to put residential and picking so
are you going to specify the amount or
where so one of the questions that you
guys asked last night we actually had a
great tour by the way so for those of
you who've scheduled it for next week
hopefully it's as exciting was you know
if you if you you know was capacity it
was a capacity conversation and that is
if you put how much how much residential
is realistic to fit in Pickering how
much residential is realistic through
rally and Tibbets and if you know if the
answer comes back 7500 housing units
which is our target for the regional
growth center then I don't think we have
to kill ourselves to find residential in
all the other areas outside the core
because there's plenty of room in the
core and that that could change the
conversation a bit right you know trying
to push residential and some of the
other places now when you look at places
like BMC and we'll talk about that for
those of you didn't go on the tour you
know where BMC is on East Lake Sam you
know there was at least what seemed like
consensus last night that residential
there made sense you know that was a
place where you know you could if you
could actually improve pedestrian and
bike crossing of East Lake Sam to get
over to the employment areas which is
where Microsoft and Siemens and the
soon-to-be as a Crosse School District
office space you know that all makes
sense that's a horizontally mixed use
neighborhood it's got a little bit of
retail and maybe that's the piece we
focus on how do we work on that piece we
when we talked about like how much can
these regions carry would it be useful
to have any language in the vision about
leveraging the light rail station to
unlock additional density because I
think something that when you look at
codeine that I think is is kind of
enticing is to is to structure the code
so that develops so that you see you say
okay we can pull out so much growth
because that's as much as the grid the
street grid can handle but once the
light rail station opens that no means
that you can move more people in and out
in a given day and the vision would be
that you would structure the the code so
the developer could build something with
the idea that when only after this
particular event triggers they know that
that will then unlock additional coding
and so you can have development built
with the idea like oh I'm gonna go and
add ten more stories to this building
but only after the light rail station is
open because before that I can't handle
the amount of traffic would that be
something there would be help with that
so I'll I'll kind of go back to
something Jo said earlier because I
think it was spot-on I think that right
now this community is a little bit
freaked out about the density that might
be on the wave coming this direction and
so having a conversation about
increasing you know that density I think
I don't disagree AJ I think that's maybe
a conversation that this community might
want to have but maybe like in ten years
I think I think you might be able to use
it to counter that that concern because
you might tell people okay we're gonna
drop in seventy five hundred people at
some bit but you don't now yeah fifteen
thousand people but maybe five thousands
people won't show we won't allow those
those units to be built until we have
this light rail station and a better
light rail station happens in 2035 then
we allow those to build them and have
until 2045 we don't and so in doing so
you can talk people and say okay that
sounds like a lot of people but by the
time all those people show up we will
have x y&z of additional infrastructure
to support that right but until that
extra infrastructure shows up that's
75,000 feet or 7500 people with more
cars on the road and more parking that
has to be provided
the problems the task force has was we
want to look to the future so builders
didn't have to have three parking spaces
for you
well how do you do that if you're you're
planning on something that's 30 years
away and you're gonna start it careful
with that because for sure but I think
when the task force tackled this
previously you don't have the guarantee
of a light rail station now we do and so
I think the vision could articulate that
we want the growth to be back loaded
what are you do in the meantime you just
don't use don't grow as much
well we okay Ben how you're going to
throttle it if if you're gonna start it
you know if you're ultimately looking
for 15,000 people what are you gonna put
it - five - yeah but finally you have to
get into this specific so that this is
only of this what do you do because what
happens if it all happens in five years
instead of in 30 years that's what
happened with us we figured we had 30
years for this to implement and all of a
sudden here we are less than 10 years
later and it's been implemented and
beyond what we could so depending on
light rail is good but until you get
that light rail you're gonna have people
parking and driving and the congestion
is gonna get worse and worse so I think
we need to get a little creative here
because you're onto something where you
time the zoning in a way to allow denser
urban zoning upon building of the train
station and you have that on the books
so a developer doesn't build something
and then go like oh damn I have only I'd
known and if I had waited eight more
years I could have gotten so much more
value approach Lowe's right now today
and say hmm 20 years from now I could
reap a fortune on zoning that allows me
to build 200 units and acres nothing but
I'm gonna have to wait and time blows an
offer today and then to appease the rest
of the community this is where you get a
little creative
you tell the developers those 200 units
you're going
- by the density credits from other
neighborhoods that we don't want to
develop as densely and those people want
maybe they want less density and who
knows I think when it comes back to the
vision as I was saying layoffs I think
my vision is that that little pocket
were the lows is if while that Lytro
station is being built or excuse me if
before the allegro station is being
built I'm fine with that just being a
Lowe's I don't think that needs to turn
into anything more beautiful than a lows
because it's in kind of a crappy corner
underneath an interstate what I think my
perfect vision is that at the same time
that lateral station is being built that
Lowe's is being torn down by some
developer and some much larger building
that's hopefully mixed eves is being
built and they open it more or less more
or less the same time I think that's
that's my vision I think that would be
great so you so you get to a point that
you have an open station and you have a
great mixed use neighborhood that's very
dense before then you don't you you kind
of didn't roll with the existing use
because we don't have the transit
infrastructure to get more people in
that which is great but the problem is
we put the moratorium in place because
we were getting development that we
didn't want and so the lows could
develop into something in the meantime
and then we're gonna be stuck with it
yeah but you do that by putting in extra
requirements like requiring ground
ground for a retail required 90%
structure parking you put in all these
things that we want that's gonna cause
the developer to be like wow I'm not
gonna do all of that and build a
five-story building and have to have
100% erection Park or grand for a retail
because that doesn't make sense in this
neighborhood at this time I think it
comes down to a lot of stuff that we
were talking about on like on Wall
Street about being really really
assertive with with what we require the
developers and if developers say well
that doesn't pencil out all right okay
you know we can we can wait and stick
with the existing structures until that
pencils out so we we make progressive
coding and where the code we we have
lying we say this is the code today and
this is the code that will be in
existence and when fc3 comes in and they
put a station there this is how this
property is going to transform so
everybody has transparency they see how
it's going to work and in the meantime
we don't get overloaded with a bunch of
growth that we can't do anything with so
so right the the the reason why why you
have a vision that is implementation
agnostic is because of that very reason
right is that you never want to lock
yourself into certain situations that
you don't know will happen so it's
always it has to be very implementation
agnostic what is your if you had a you
had your druthers you could just do
anything what would you do with this is
is how you create a vision statement you
cannot have like specifics because they
are all contingent on other things
happening so you see where that will
fall apart right and then you'll have to
read you like that's that's an
implementation plan and you can adjust
your implementation plan but vision
always has to remain kind of the view of
what in its in its wonder what is
aquatics like I was actually thinking
well what I was my comment was actually
reflection of what we have today an
amendment to it and they would be backed
by the code like what Ken was saying you
have your vision which is aspirational
and kind of guidance and then you you
have to build a code around it so that
developers have guidance as to what is
the expectation and what do I need to do
and then we have city staff that are
trained and our strong enough to tell
the developer hey this is the code this
is the vision this is what you need to
follow which is actually really just an
amendment of what we have here
we just haven't added
I mean this is Pickering and what we're
talking about doing is probably
revamping Pickering so we probably
picked the most difficult thing to start
with yeah you can but you can you can I
think you can do that in the vision you
can have for the primary use and then
the in the fin the future state you
could have something that says the
vision is that this state will not just
maybe this land-use will not change
dramatically
so until so you think about it in the
other direction so you can say that part
of the implementing strategies is you
know that within you know three years of
the construction of the train station
look at increasing density to this
neighborhood to facilitate more Tod
development a measure of success then if
you're gonna do because you know their
needs there's another layer that we've
added to the end potentially that would
be a measure of success would be that
that that area around the train station
within a walking distance of the train
station ends up being a high the highest
density within Central Issaquah that's a
vision that's a vision piece right
because and then you have to say how do
we get there so so that could be I think
one of the things recognizing time and
your meeting and knowing that we have a
couple members of the public that may or
may not want to say something I guess
the question for you all is looking
there was a conversation about whether
or not we want to hang on to ten or
whether we want to look at creating
basically a regional growth center
neighborhood and periphery for lack of a
better word at quarter tonight so I
guess I'm looking for either show of
hands or some sentiment from the task
force and the Commission on which way
you'd like to see that because what I'd
like to do is have us actually share if
we're sticking with ten at least for now
to share with you this document so you
guys can start to actually look at it
and make some comments so that when we
come in
next time we can kind of hit the ground
running but if there's if the group
liked AJ suggestion that maybe we talked
about this as one then what we would
give you is we would kind of put a
different construct together and and
head and give you that so it would look
a bit different it would still have the
same elements but geographically I think
could be defined differently and maybe
the vision for kind of this central
piece of central Issaquah would be
written maybe a little bit different a
little bit more boldly than maybe say
old route 10 and the service area would
be so if we actually went towards the
direction of making it more unified and
looking at Pickering and that we are
talking about making that possibly the
highest density and we were still
talking about one or we're talking about
less than ten but we're talking about I
think is you break it into two themes
you have central central mr. qua the
kind of the urban core and then you have
the yeah we got to figure out the right
word to use it because it's still urban
it's still essentially Issaquah but it's
not as urban and so then all whether
it's the Western gateway or old route 9
or East Lake they're all of they're all
in the same tier yeah
you give them different names for
placemaking reasons and then that
there's real value to that but you but
you break it down that you very clearly
and have two tiers or development both
still very much still central it's like
what quality development so like your
central district where design code still
applies to the whole swath but you
clarify that you've got a more urban
urban core and then the less dense but
still urban neighborhood and we could
actually put themes there so definitely
you know we could have me
or fewer than 10 and just have
neighborhood themes with the same
building code or the same type of
buildings but markets actually different
I think the risk of reducing the
quantity of zones is that some zone will
actually get lost in the overall I think
you're right I think the way to mitigate
that is for the for the secondary
districts you keep them of the same size
and so that they still get the love care
and focus that they need but I think I
think the idea of stitching together
Tibbets and Pickering and perhaps a
chunk of Gillman is I think it makes
more sense to think of that as a single
neighborhood rather than separate
neighborhoods think that makes more
sense from a playing standpoint maybe in
the future state from a placemaking
standpoint you pivot back to them as
separate place makings but any from a
planning sample I think it makes more
sense to plan that as a single
neighborhood so when you go through this
10 you might find that other stitch
together but I think we have to look at
that as individual oh yeah that one goes
here but I do want to give anybody who
has anything to say the opportunity to
say that so I'm going to open up the
public hearing at 8:55 and ask if
anybody would like to come to the podium
and make a statement before it gets too
late
no I I'm just I don't need to come to
the podium I do I have to yeah so I'm
John and I I run the Grange and have
just about a year and about a year in
two months and I don't really have
anything to to say other than I'd love
to go on the tour at the the next chance
for what it's worth
we've raised wages at the Grange 20
percent since I started something that
our board and our members have plotted
and as for our future you were a fuel
stop and have been since 1943 so we hope
to get through the board to also be an
electronic vehicle charging hub
somewhere down the road as we a think
that probably the stats are in 2022 the
internal combustion cars will be the
same price as EVs and they probably
already are and just finally you can run
your green necklace through our yard
well I have a question for you so since
you're down in that area yeah do you see
we don't consider it down
[Laughter]
so what did what would you like to see
what would help you in your business
help you well we talked about it a
little bit I mean we could use more
lighting we could use sidewalks it's
it's it's a bit of a bastard though
because you've got you've got kind of
our funky store and then you've got this
fairly modern office doctor complex then
you've got then you've got bones right
and you almost think like if you could
just take that piece out and slide us
together that it would make more sense
so I'm what y'all have us is quite a
challenge I think I think you know the
times that I've winced a little since I
took the position is when we talk about
old town and I've actually heard people
say cuz there's a sign that says thank
you for visiting like downtown old
Issaquah and yet on the other side of
that sign is Derry gold bones and the
Grange the oldest businesses in Issaquah
and so I you know I'm not sure you'll be
able to do this and you know people like
well it's just a dairy well it's a dairy
with a pretty cool mural you know and
I've lived here you know we moved here
at 64 so I'm and I'm about guy so I love
neighbourhood so I you know I think to
try to incorporate that into Old Town
although I don't really see exactly how
to do it I think would be nice um we're
looking at a really large remodel The
Grange is fine we have a lot of money in
the bank and and where we you know we're
still doing about ten million dollars a
year and so I think sometimes about a
Grange village I think about having it
there actually be something that's more
almost like a like a livery stable and
things like that I will tell you that
probably in the next two years we're
gonna build a barn and do concerts in
the barn but it but the barns gonna be
because we we sell tons and tons and
tons of hay and you can't do hay dry or
you can't do hay wet right you can't
deliver it wet so we need to we need to
have a place we can pull the semis in
drop off and pick up pay so I think I
mean I think it would be great if it
were well lit and more
more walkable I guess as this is the
short answer but that's also you know
that's also on us too you know I like
the that coming in with a barn and I
think that when we get the opportunity
to talk about that particularly
neighborhood now we have something else
to put in there and I've always seen it
as a way to get into Old Town so think
yeah and I think finally you talk about
in that neighborhood in the old route n
neighborhood something that's really
started to come up and we just finished
expanding it as of today is we have a
community room set off of our offices
and we we've knocked out a wall because
the community room is too small and
because it's in so we've expanded the
community room and probably because of
the TV show with the shiplap we have us
wing a barn door that opens the
community room but yeah I mean that gets
used I mean everybody from AAA to
backcountry horsemen use that room and
so in our little neck of the woods
that's become quite the hub and we
support it we go looking for it and the
Grange really is committed our marketing
budgets pretty much all Community Giving
now so we're really trying to hub up
thank you yeah sure but anybody else
like to
okay David Kepler right here I walked to
the Grange but I I missed your bulk bulk
winter a cover crop seeds in both bins
for that oh okay all I saw was
everything in bags okay thank you
strange is cool okay from San Francisco
Connie doesn't believe the slope be
behind Home Depot should be in the
central is a call plan and she doesn't
think the State Park should be in the in
the central Issaquah plan Mary made some
much comments and read a lot of them
were about wildlife corridors we're
gonna have wildlife through this town
with the State Park with the hundreds of
acres there and what's going to end up
in the State Park
it was just ten days ago a cougar was
killed on Highland Highlands Drive
between the hospital and i-90 somewhere
on there okay no I'm not I can't so you
know past like two minutes after it
happened it was one of the weirdest yeah
so you know they're they're traveling
through it was after it was an evening
right was after the Bergsma meetings I
believe so it happened later but they
move around we know that they seen him
in the cameras that that matt has had it
Issaquah High School behind his wife
school and part point and bears in the
rest but so let's be sure we recognize
wildlife will be there
they love the creeks the Tibbets in in
Issaquah Creek they're gonna be there
and let's make sure keep them as safe as
possible you know the vision there's a
lot of good discussion on vision we're
gonna visit you know we could have the
best vision in the world and unless we
have the the codes the regulations and
the policy we're going to just have more
disasters so I'm concerned the
moratorium is almost done with right I
don't know if the council will you know
stand a little bit more but there's you
know you can only do that there'll be a
year so I'm not sure how much more they
want to keep going or can't keep going
so when it gets right down to this thing
if the test is right now or when you're
finished when you're finish your process
the moratorium is over the the developer
from h e double toothpicks is that my
students just to say you know will they
decide i don't want to deal in this
place or it's it's gonna be tough to
deal with theirs is it was gonna be you
know really expecting high expectations
and i'm gonna have to do a great job and
i can do it here
i mean we are a world class area the
whole world is looking at us i mean
where were the fastest-growing areas in
the country the economics here is
obscene and in terms of house values and
the rest they're all looking at us and
we want the best to come and we want to
be able to make sure the best do their
best and not the worst come to do their
worst thank you i could ask if anybody
else wants to speak but seeing nobody
I'm going to close the public hearing at
9:05 and continue it on the 30th right
bring up an idea though between now and
the 30th that I like staff to look at if
possible is reducing the number of
districts rather than come back to 30th
and talk about it if it's something you
would because you talk teeth about ideas
very sands or whatever and I'd like to
reduce it to four or districts or four
neighborhoods and if it's possible to
pull up there's this central area zoning
map would be the easiest to show
I can do that right now I got it
this is a test Keith it doesn't test
though I think I said I still get the
point that the John in Maine that I
don't I want to make sure that the the
secondary neighborhoods don't look too
big that you're still not able to make
that the placemaking I need to make
sense for just feels a little too small
we'll talk through it I wonder if it's
possible to do placemaking separate from
neighborhood zoning
how'd you get here I should move on yes
well how'd you get there if we end up
back Maps
piano-like sorry white man : service
free map static maps so then I could end
up having those as district
neighborhoods yeah I almost wonder if he
comes districts as kind of a higher
level and then neighborhoods or
economies yeah or even just the idea of
you know within this central Issaquah
area being able to say okay we've got a
map of the overarching green necklace
we've got a map of the well-known places
that are and our vision of what they
should be and then these are kind of the
zones the urban core and the periphery
okay so here's what my thought was yeah
so number one would be urban core and
Jerry if you can kind of show that Jerry
is read a lot of presentations and them
so well yeah it's supposed to be red but
it's snow or salmony so that's yeah been
core and that's retail growth centre too
so there's you know so there's that
piece of this which is that's also the
regional growth centre an urban core and
it's a hole next to it
so hila is right here so that's under
the valley development agreement so
that's all urban zoning right now what
map is that
[Laughter]
it's whatever it's never seen it before
my life never central Issaquah plan oh
you want to go to do anything it's
coherent but that was part of trying to
make the like I don't I don't want like
nine it's in the piano right I want to
the plan oh you're in the regional
center she's she's in the plan mm-hmm
and it's not too narrow what is it
because if it for on page 32 that's
that's crg see yeah yeah so that's the
regional grow center it's in the it's in
the central Issaquah zoning map that you
can find but I can explain it from here
so that I want to pop it on the tab so
the so the red color and hila are both
urban zoning that's the urban core and
those should be in my mind those should
be had the same vision to eventually be
developed if we didn't have i 90 going
through it we would have that would be
the urban core of the city gateway would
be its own district because it really is
stuck out there by itself and i don't
think we need to concentrate a lot on it
because there's not much else that's
going to happen there in the next 30
years the the purple color is all the
mixed use zoning and I think all that
can be essentially one neighborhood
because it's not open
but we do want mixed-use we want
residential we want jobs we want retail
the lower left portion so it's sort of
the red checks portion below down there
that's the that's the urban residential
or village residential kind I think that
can be its own visionary district
because that's but almost go down into
old town but I think it could stand
alone itself and then the other two
would be old town historic historic
district yeah and I think that could go
into old town is a qualm I don't think
it fits in the urban vision we're
talking about move that in Old Town and
then the service district you can even
take out of the central Issaquah plan
it's agreed so we get down to for just
the urban the mixed-use gateway and then
and then we have to boundary change
gateway doesn't even need to be part of
the site and then we reduce yeah I would
like to keep it because that is our
gateway and it finding and so as we also
talked about the need for conductivity
to the park and other things and so a
bridge over and we need parks so you've
already developed that but to stick it
out there is sticking it out and just an
orphan because there because there's
still a lot that can be done you know to
rebuild a new port way with the bridge
over 90 even though there might not be
many new buildings built i think there's
there others there's other stuff that's
involved so asian i hadn't looked at it
this way but i mean realistically zoning
drives whatever happens on the land
way more than any vision we may come up
with the zoning is what determines price
value and what you can do hi
right city so it makes perfect sense to
align the visions to the zoning
fortunately it's close to existing
zoning is close to what we kind of have
a consensus could generally be the
visions and then I think really then the
discussion is do we want does our vision
want to tweak the zoning at all do we
want to turn some salmon purple and
purple salmon or vice vary or something
like that I think that's in the question
I think I think I like the idea of those
are our districts and then I think maybe
at the next meeting yes we should have a
little bit of Scotian about okay do we
do we disagree slightly where the zoning
switch is because it'll so it'll be yeah
so the the vision of the new districts
or neighborhoods could then Mazzone akan
vers Asian absolutely let's do it that
way as opposed to the other way if we do
that looking at Gillman and Old Town can
we reduce density requirements which
would be what down zoning then or is it
would we leave the zoning as it is and
put that density in the urban core like
pet green area where we have even higher
density and that way we actually allow
the others portions of the city to
breathe
maybe because I think if I look at them
and that that French treat is you get to
Oldtown it I think there's still plenty
of room for that to grow it just needs
to grow in a way that that transitions
very organically to too old down so why
don't we look at that but my guess is
that the zoning that's in place on those
two neighborhoods was not necessarily
enough zone when it got at it into the
central Issaquah he's talking about
Gilman they like red check this area
check there okay so is that considered
high-density now or is that is that so
if we actually just it's it's mixed-use
residential that can go to 65 feet yeah
that's a lot different than Garden
Apartments yeah so maybe moving which is
out of the CIP and or leave it in the
CIP well we have it in the CIP that that
means it's going to be higher density
right so it could be the idea is if we
put more of the density in you
concentrate densities well Ron I think
what are you doing why don't ya well I
think the the suggestion was to make
that its own neighborhood I think we can
then talk about next time if that's if
that's the cat's the consensus of a
majority of the group I think staff can
go repackage this up that way then we
can have a conversation about that
neighborhood and we'll figure out what
name it is because the one that staff
has is not very glamorous and so well we
can then talk about the density and look
at zoning for that zone and say ok now
that we've created that as a
neighborhood here's what the zoning regs
would allow there does that still make
sense or does that not make sense and we
can add that conversation yeah and what
I like where you're going that's where I
was going to which is you know if we
would have had creative policies in
place that said you know we don't really
want 400 units at the gateway parcel why
don't we let high density area owners or
future owners buy some of those 400
units and transfer them into the high
density area and leave a hundred you
that's on gateway and then that way
everybody's still made whole but we're
not giving free density we own it that
way in the first place nobody should get
free zoning that makes them instant
multimillionaires just because you
happen to own a property we should make
them by the density from other parcels
where we don't want that growth to go
that's and it's happening everywhere
that's why we get all screwed up in our
building and developments because we
hand out free zoning like candy because
people of course want it so they can
become an instant multi-millionaire but
I don't turn it off how does it go up
there's a limit but what you can put in
there realistically and so you're gonna
have to spread some of this out if you
want to get it in the root so just
saying putting it in there is not gonna
work no way and so it's getting to be a
little late and I think you've just
given Keith and Trish some things to do
to prepare for the next meeting and I
think that we'll all be more prepared if
you know we're kind of you talk and you
talk about this vision and that vision
you finally come to a conclusion I think
we're in a point where we're going to go
on and actually get into it my only
concern is getting realistic zoning in
place so that builders know what they
can build what we want as a city and I
think
extremely important and and that's great
you look at that and say okay we're
going to put all the the residential in
there but how are we going to do it what
are the requirements that we're going to
put in what kind of areas are you going
to put in for roads and the green
necklace all that can be put into into
this when they get enough time and
staffing to put it all together but with
that I kind of like to say that you know
we've talked about it for for enough
tonight and I think we need some rest
here and I think we will continue on the
possibility of a meeting tucked in
between the thirtieth and today like
after the tour on Thursday the 16th to
two meet we couldn't have this room but
we could find a room do you think that
you want to that would be thanks - no
thanks Turkey will be provided on the
1616 so that there'd be the tour for
those of you that didn't go on the tour
and then you know we'd have like pizza
or something and then have a meeting
just to try to get farther so that you
don't think that you have to have
everything done on the 30th because
anybody available in the 16th I'm
available I was planning on going on the
tour that day so right I don't know if I
could do the tour and then amazing yeah
the tour was two hours right
[Laughter]
I think that's I think that's too much I
think I just study going on the tour
okay so alright yeah after talking do we
want to make a choice which one's more
important well I haven't been on the
tour yet I think is more important to
the rest of that zoning here find
another night that's not a Thursday and
that Thanksgiving so try to get people
back together to talk about it or do
people think that they'll be fine on the
30th you know I think oh it got to a
point where we can take it to where we
need to go and then say staff this is
what we want you write up the code to to
make it happen I don't think we can do
that we can tell you what we want how we
want it or would like to have it and
maybe at that point in time you can go
on so I think as long as we have
something from you guys beforehand if
they ask for from you guys to us is do
some wordsmithing on this and come with
your proposals then we can be more
actionable at that point I mean is you
decide that you're not going to get off
track and go back to the vision and go
back to this that we actually have to
focus on either connecting the groups or
keeping them ten or whatever you want to
do but let's do that I think the fact
that we've made some good
recommendations on yeah
bringing it ten down and then also what
should be included in it I think we
might be able to do it if we could we'll
just you know if we stay longer and
that you know you'll be expecting that
you're gonna stay longer than 10:30 and
and you greeted that it's either that or
another meeting so we're asking the city
to actually take some of the ideas we
have put them into a proposal to present
to us so that we can talk about it and
then make a decision or tweak it yeah I
I think we go with just one meeting and
that's my request well that's what I'm
getting at it would just you know but
tonight I think that we have we're done
talked about it enough so I kind of like
that close the meeting it sure and I
would say to that the central is qwop
plan is really short for a plan and I
would recommend if anyone haven't
haven't read it in a while the whole
first part is the intro about the task
force and why it is the way it is why
the task force was what it was but all
the work that you did and all their
outreach and and why it came to be that
that's the boundary and it talks all
about sustainability and mountains to
sound and so it's just a good refresher
to help ground the next revisit of the
visions to maybe give that another look
I know we could all find ourselves but
could you include it as an appendix and
the next one is a reminder for us to
look thank you I will
I don't want to downgrade all of the
effort and time that the task force put
into this I mean there were reasons
behind what they talked about and there
was a group of 2012 seem like to put in
a lot of time and a lot of
discussion on this so I don't want to
say that you know we're gonna actually
we flailed around for the first few
meetings until of course you'd kind of
all come together about the third what
we just did tonight
well okay so I am gonna call the meeting
those at 9:25 thank you so much are we
at next meeting we
you