oh she's
not that's why she's not here on public
record well we are on air
yeah was
that oh uh yeah it
works oh no it's the
uh COI
public to do in a long long
time
that one right there yeah yep
City yeah my other
devices think about in six years air
okay
well without our fearless
leader uh welcome everybody to
the April 23d meeting of the planning
policy commission welcome everybody
that's here in the audience this there
is going to be a public hearing today
thank you so much for for your interest
in coming this evening first of all we
have on our agenda an approval of the
minutes for March 5th do I have a motion
on the floor um not not yet there there
is um one issue that I wanted to correct
in the minutes on page 7 of 164 in our
packets if we have a if we have a motion
then we can have a disc discuss
discussion I'll make a motion to uh do I
have a
second okay now a discussion uh as far
as discussion um on page seven of 164 in
our
packets um under Venit
Wah's um paragraph just want to correct
the end of the third line that it is not
a detention Pond but a retention
pond anything
else nothing for
me
so we have a motion on the
floor we have a uh with the exception of
the new change in wording that uh just a
correction it really doesn't change
the the minutes but it does make a
change so um all those in favor of
approving the minutes with the
clarification from detention to
retention please say
I thank you very much everybody is
approved or that the minutes are
approved so we're going to go and before
we start the public hearing tonight we
are going to have a present several
presentations to uh see what the city is
doing and what their plans are so the
first presentation we have this evening
is David Rosen and he's going to talk
about the wet Peter Rosen my brother's
David how' you know the Wetland rating
system that uh has to be changed based
on what the state is doing so Peter okay
thank you hi uh my name is Peter Rosen
I'm the city's environmental planner and
um so I'm here tonight for some proposed
amendments to the city's critical area
regulations and to the Wetland section
of that
specifically and um so the state
department of ecology adopted a new
Wetland r rating system and our current
code references the 2004 Wetland rating
system so the purpose of of the
Amendments is to reference in our code
the
2014 new um Department of ecology
Wetland rating system um
doe has written that the Wetland rating
system and it provides a a common
technical scientifically
validated manual and a method that all
jurisdictions and agencies can use to um
and it's used to characterize and
measure Wetland functions there's three
Wetland functions water quality
hydrologic and habitat and so the
Wetland rating form gives scores to
these different functions and um that
then determines the Wetland
category and depending on the Wetland
category that um the Wetland category
determines Wetland buffer widths and
also mitigation requirements so if you
have a higher quality Wetland one that
provides high quality um ecological
functions um the buffers requirements
are greater and if the Wetland is being
impacted the mitigation requirements are
greater
um so the Amendments really are just
um to adopt the wet rating system it's
not at all intended to change buffer
requirements I want to be clear about
that um doe when they um devised the new
system they went out to over 200
Wetlands using the existing system and
the new one and scored them to determine
that there wouldn't really be an effect
on on on
buffers so
um the amendments the the first part of
the Amendments is just uh the
description of the categories of the
wetlands and then the second part of the
Amendments goes into the um to the
buffer requirements and it just changes
the scores of the wetlands because of
the new scoring system so that's
really uh the gist of of um of what the
Amendments entail is is is just those
two things is a description of the
different categories and then changing
the scoring
um to correspond it to to buffers so
that the buffers are not changing it's
just um the scoring that's changing so
and
um it's pretty it's pretty much required
that the city adopt this
um there you know if if the city really
had some major objections to it we could
work with doe to to make some changes
but as I mentioned at the outset um it's
been it it it's been devised as a common
methodology for all jurisdiction so that
um all the agencies the Army Corps of
Engineers um the state Washington
department of ecology and local
jurisdictions are all using a common
methodology to um characterize uh and
rate
Wetlands um here to answer any questions
from the commission um go ahead I I just
have one one small question under um
18.10 620 under the proposed amendment
um paragraph
A1 it seems that just for wording and
and smooth flow uh we could take
paragraph A1 and just move that whole
sentence back into paragraph a which I
think would make the whole statute read
better it's kind of a lead into the
categories and explains sorry I'm not
following where where you're talking
about which section you're talking about
um so 18.1 .2 or 620 paragraph A1 which
is current currently reads as stricken
from the statute from the new
statute um Wetlands as defined by this
chapter shall be classified into
category 1 through four as follows um I
I would propose taking that sentence and
reinserting it at the end of paragraph
a and then leaving the rest as follows
because where it currently stands we
just uh talk about that it contains the
method for determining the Wetland
category um but as far as readability I
think leaving that wording from
paragraph A1 and moving it back into
paragraph a uh would just provide a
little bit more clarity in the statute
over I when I was doing this I I was
kind of debating whether to keep that
sentence or not so I I think that's uh
that that would be useful I don't it
doesn't change any of the the context or
or um
the substance of the Amendments and it
might make it more clear so um I I I
think that's probably a good
recommendation so does the state have
any requirements for the language that
it has to be exactly the same or or can
you
basically so um the language regarding
the categories the description of the
categories of the wetlands come straight
from the state and um I think there
would be a bit of a problem with
changing some of that
um um I
mean unless there was a a a good reason
to do that description yeah so the
description of of the categories of the
wetlands come straight comes straight
from the state and from the Wetland
rating
system anybody else have any questions I
I I have one just overall overarching
question um do you know or are you aware
of what the impetus was to the move on
the new rating system it just seems a
little arbitrary as opposed moving from
a z to 100 to a 9 to
27
um um well I don't know necessarily in
terms of the scoring I mean there's
there's a lot of changes to the
questions in the form and I think they
just wanted to simplify some of the the
scoring but
um I think that the the reason for
overall for the changes is is because of
of some of the changes in the science in
Wetland science regarding how to how to
quantify ecological functions that
wetland provide so that that was the
impetus for the change is is just is
it's U went through a long process with
doe of peer review scientific peer
review and so it's really based around
more accurately um measuring what L
ecological functions okay so just
keeping with best available science
yes
going from 0 to 100 to 9 to 28 kind of
shortens the um an ability to be you
know it it makes it more clear that to
to make it closer together than having
this wide variety of 100 different well
you're 98 instead of 92 so it's kind of
shortens that as far as I'm concerned
yeah anybody
else thank you okay eer
um next we have
the infamous Christopher Wright to talk
about
uh changes in the far word fire firewood
uh stipulation in the municipal code
thank you madam chair uh yes my name is
Christoper Wright and I'm with the
city's development services department
and I am here uh to present to you a
proposed code Amendment having to do
with the storage of firewood in
residential areas and the the kind of
the impetus the origin of of this code
Amendment does come from uh an issue uh
issues in a particular neighborhood and
there there are some residents from that
neighborhood here tonight so uh when I'm
done you have a chance to kind of I
think hear both sides of that story but
what we're proposing as far as what the
city proposes is pretty straight forward
um and there's two kind of main goals
one is to uh it's mostly clarification a
uh that would uh list uh The Cutting uh
storage and sale of firewood as as
prohibited as a a home occupation as a
home business and that's like I said
there mostly clarification because as as
our uh code has been for a long time uh
we have not allowed uh home occupations
that that have outdoor storage or that
are exceptionally loud or are more than
500 square ft so those are all criteria
that are already in the the code for
home occupations and there's been
several that have list been listed as
prohibited like you know auto repairs
and you know manufacturing kind of stuff
and and so this would just be clarifying
and adding uh the sale of firewood as as
not permitted as a home occupation the
other part uh which is kind of more
significant has to do with uh for uh
firewood that's for personal use then uh
how regulating how much you can have and
then where
uh and how it is stored on your lot and
uh you you'll see in the proposed code
Amendment there's a maximum of five
cords of wood uh that would be allowed
uh to be stored on a residential
property and there there's nothing
particularly magical about that number
we did some research and we found that
um say between four and five cords of
wood may be enough to uh provide so heat
for an average size house in the
Northwest for maybe a couple of years um
and that would allow some to be dried
while some is being used so like I said
that that was how we came up with that
number but I think more importantly than
that uh is where and how it the wood
would be stored and what we're proposing
is it' be stored in the side or or rear
yard not stacked higher than six feet um
and mostly that is most similar to oh
and that that we encourage screening as
well and where that all came from it's
most similar to the storage like a boat
or a trailer or an RV on a residential
lot that has similar language and that
it needs to be stored in the side or the
rear yard and screening is encouraged so
that's where that wording came from um
but like I said it it's pretty straight
forward it seems to be a a reasonable uh
Amendment uh that would then be
established
Citywide if you have any questions I'm
I'm available what prompted this
well like I said there's been an issue
in a neighborhood with uh with a a wood
sales being used uh as a home occupation
and also uh how that's being stored you
you'll hear more about it in a minute
but that's where it came from and we
looked at some other cities too to see
if they had similar regulations and we
didn't find a whole lot but there are a
few other cities that have similar
regulations so you said you didn't find
a lot is
so can you explain on that I mean yeah
well we we looked at uh we kind of asked
around to see what other cities had just
to get an idea of uh you know whether
there size limits or storage limits and
there were several cities that also uh
said not uh that prohibited storage in
the front yard and limited it to side
and rear
um what we didn't find is another city
that had that specified a maximum
although a couple cities had three
chords as a rule of thumb how about
others that regulated home occupation or
the occupation um yeah it didn't we
didn't find that
anywhere um is
there any reason that um storage or sale
of firewood as far as opposed to cutting
um I mean you you talked of noise
complaints um is there any reason that
Simply Storage of sale of fire would
would have
a need to be regulated in and of
itself as opposed to The Cutting well
like I said for for home occupations
today uh no outdoor storage is permitted
so there's no other Home occupations
that allow outdoor storage so this is
just in keeping with that but like I
said one of the another thing that so
that with a home occupation what the
main thing is to maintain the
residential character right that that is
supposed to look feel sound like a house
right and that the business is just kind
of secondary and and you might not even
know that it's there
and for a a home occupation like this
you know there's a lot of trucks in and
out all the time and there's the outdoor
storage you know it just doesn't
maintain that residential character
that's our biggest concern okay and and
just kind of going down um
root of hypotheticals here um what if
the firewood were stored inside a garage
that make a
difference that would certainly be
allowed I mean um and I'm talking for
for storage or sale or or would the
traffic concerns still be still be
there um well there's other regulations
that that other criteria that apply to a
home occupation like said how much area
it's Tak how much much like I said
there's a maximum on 500 square feet for
home occupation the number of traffic
trips so
um it it it depends we would have to
look at that yeah and what what I'm
getting at is you know if someone is
meeting all the other requirements of
the home business code and we simply
prohibit um cutting a firewood as a
homebased business it seems like all the
other regulations would still apply in
any homebased businesses that violate
that would still be subject to code and
do we need a you know if someone's keeps
a couple quarts of wood in their garage
and they sell it and it's one trip every
you know twice a year um would that
necessarily be violating the residential
character of the neighborhood as opposed
to if you know if they're out there
cutting every week I'm just trying to
see where a proper line may may fall
yeah it it could be possible uh to meet
the
criteria um
it's not likely and it hasn't been our
experience um but just like there's a
difference between you know people can
have garage sales you know you can
occasionally have a garage sale and
there's a difference between that and
you know running a consignment shop out
of your garage you know you kind of know
it when you see it yeah but the trips
and visitations are already Limited in
the code right right so if someone were
violating those um there could be code
enforcement actions right right yeah it
says in this home occupation um I just
had it
here that for trips traffic trips the
home occupation by itself shall not
generate more than 20 vehicle trips a
day except the home dayc carees may have
many trips as required you know it seems
like I I mean just guessing I would
assume that someone selling wood is not
going to have more than 20 trips a
day no that's true but it's it's it's
it's the type of you know again it
maintain that meenal character it's the
type of trip right and that's for you
know just wondering if there's any way
you know someone someone's trying to
make a living or doing something and
they're trying to accommodate certain
codes they might be able to make it work
by following you know making the
exceptions I'm just wondering if there's
a way to do something like that
but we have tried verification when
you're talking 20 trips that's 10 in and
10 out right it is right just so you're
clear it's not 20 different
trucks so even 10 even 10 for a day I
would assume no I understand but but
it's not 20 different
trucks
um was this happening for a long time
was there a business happening in a
certain certain home somewhere in isqua
for a extended period of time it's been
an issue that we've been dealing with
with for a few years yeah and there was
a period of time where we uh allowed it
as a home occupation assuming that the
criteria would be able to be met just
like you said and in this particular
case the criteria were not able to be
maintained and so that business license
was
revoked and so if the the business
license was revoked I mean what what's
the need for legislation on this issue
is it a continuing like I said it's it's
more of a clar ification because the
code was silent on whether it would be
allowed as a home occupation or not and
now we're just clarifying that it would
not be allowed you said certain aspects
weren't able to be maintained which
aspects weren't able to be maintained in
this particular case uh the outdoor
storage piece
mostly does outdoor does say if you
built the out buing would
that how does that qualify into indoor
or outdoor well uh again if it was in
the side or rear what we're proposing
here is if it was in the side or rear
yard you know whether it's in a shelter
or not it wouldn't you know I'm just
thinking of Like Home Depot you go and
buy one of those $500 sheds and you can
put all your wood in there does that
qualify you know what qualifies as
indoor or
outdoor what I have a problem with is
the uh setting by the city of how much
firewood you can actually have have I
you know I figure that if you can store
it neatly on the side or back of your
house and you have a big enough area to
do that and it's covered up I'm not sure
if I want the city to regulate only five
cords of
wood I actually had that same thought
and it occurred to me that there's no
provision in there um you know for for
chickens we have a code three chickens
per 6,000 ft of property and and there's
no such provision here you could have
acres and still be limited to five
chords yeah I mean I understand that and
and it's where and how it's screen is
more important like I said than the the
the amount so again that's something you
know if I go by city code then I have to
go by city code and it says five cords
of wood
therefore if I lived on 20 acres I could
still only have five cords of wood which
doesn't make sense to
me anybody else have
anything okay thank you chis don't go
away I'll be right
there um at this time it's
uh
657 I'm going to open the public hearing
anybody who is uh wants to speak this
evening should be signed up on this list
uh There are rules that we go by by uh
just like the city council and that's a
a minimum a maximum of five minutes I
think that's that's a lot of time so be
succinct and and tell us what you think
and why we should be you know what you
bring to our discussion so uh with that
and since I've opened the the public
hearing uh the first name on the on the
list is John
Barrett please come to the microphone
State your your name and address thank
you madam chairman my name is John
Barnett I reside at 2095 Southeast 83rd
place in isqua it's approximately 3 and
a half acres and I've been there for in
excess of seven years can I ask you to
speak a little L yes is that better yes
please thank you sorry about that my
great-grandfather was John J golden the
founder of Goldendale Washington and one
of his many accomplishments in his
lifetime was the procurement and sale of
a thousand cords of firewood at $10 a
cord shipped by barge to San Francisco
in the
1870s a little bit of that is filtered
down through the the the family
Generations um I'm the person that's the
subject of this propose proposed
ordinance uh with it I was granted a
business
license and did My Level best to comply
with it it's very difficult to do that
when your your code requirements uh for
screening when your your your screening
is vandalized consistently taken down
and harmed when your vehicles are
vandalized I've been the subject of
ridicule scorn
lawsuits
uh the the list goes on and on you know
I've heated for wood for most of my
adult life and had it growing up as a
child uh and I remember making trips
down to Madison Park to buy to buy it
with my
father it's just been a way of life for
many many years and as somebody who
suffers from disabilities including Pro
post-traumatic stress I'm limited in
what I can do and firewood was an option
for me with it that we did our best to
put that together and help serve people
throughout the community and May
every effort to comply with everything
that was put forward you know it's one
thing after another it's you know this
Rule and then you know you get sued and
then you get threatened and then your
property gets vandalized and people
block physically block your road access
while you are attempting to go to an
urgent medical appointment to the point
of where the police were called people
didn't move because it's a private
road they couldn't enforce it paramedics
Rec called because of a previous cardiac
enzyme that I have
and in incredible chest pain as part of
this
experience they finally let the
ambulance
through I concur wholeheartedly with you
that from some of the comments that have
been made that the sale of firewood as a
home occupancy is in
fact an ability to make function but
it's hard when people go on a Witch Hunt
to trip you up at every point to the
point where they swear at my children
flip them off my sons 12-year-old twins
who are developmentally disabled because
they were premature asked me time and
again Dad why is that lady taking
pictures
again I couldn't answer it for
her with regard to
the
proposed code
Amendment the amount of five cords of
wood is both arbitrary and
capricious it is a lot for some people
and nowhere near enough for
others I know of dozens and dozens of
people within the city limits of isqua
who by need or by choice heat slowly and
exclusively or almost so with firew
and many of those people go through 7 8
10 and even 12 cords a year I
myself my home I have two stoves and
early 70s insulation so it's kind of
like heating the world I go through
between 10 and 12 quarts per year it's
part of the discussion
previously with working with the city
that a you know a reasonable amount of
firewood to have was a threeyear
supply and whether that was you know one
two 10 or 30 then that was it um there's
several other problems with the with the
proposal stacked and elevated with it um
how does it how does it elevate what's
the requirement there um I don't
understand how wood can be a safety
issue um you know visual nuisance is is
a matter of
interpretation um there are hundreds of
people within the city
that would be affected by this proposal
and just taking a random notation when I
came down to the meeting tonight I left
my home at my the address specified and
by the time I turned right on State
Route 900 and got to
Talis I noticed that there were five
homes that would be in violation of the
proposed ordinance three of them were on
my
street this
is you know a
long you know contentious disagreement
which I don't understand it has been an
epic source of stress it's personally
affected my ability to earn and provide
an income and as proposed and stated in
writing to Mr Wright that you know I
also provide wood for my ex-wife and
three minor children all of whom have
disabilities it's a primary source of
heat for them and what can't do
economically you know at least I can
provide that for them hopelink for
example through their their many
programs I'm sure everybody's aware of
hopelink if not you should be um one of
the things that they provide for people
who have a primary source of heat as
wood they will provide a wood grant for
those who are in
need and many times those amounts are in
excess of five courts so the
implementation of this would Direct
directly affect people in need who who
need help the
most from being able to comply with
keeping their families warm through the
cold and of of
winter I truly believe that there's a
reasonable solution both to the home
occupancy issue and reasonable
codification of what we're doing as far
as how we want to Define what's stored
you're going to hear a vastly different
story in a few minutes from whoever else
is here with it but this whole process
has taken a severe toll on my health my
ability to earn an
income and has eaten up tens of
thousands of dollars in in useless
expense hundreds of hours of time all
for I don't know
what I would
implore a more reason you know more
reason
discussion about
some some form of Regulation that
incorporates the the needs of hundreds
of people in the city of
isqua with regard to how they can heat
their homes and keep their families
warm rather than have an arbitrary and
capricious setup that is clearly
targeted at
me yet affects those who need it most
most the elderly those who Heat their
homes with
wood and when you keep wood you know by
stacking it you know neatly the problem
that lies with that often times when
it's green green is defined as having a
moisture content when it's just cut down
which is approximately
50% when you stack it neatly and tightly
at that stage of its
preparation you get many different
things and at the end of the time none
of it is used usable firewood because it
grows mushrooms it's subject to mold and
it doesn't dry
out so I just have one question your
your five minutes is is up but um how
big is a is your property the property
is approximately 3 and a half
acres is are your neighbors the same
size properties I honestly do not know
okay okay thank
you one last comment if I might okay I
appreciate the opportunity to speak
tonight and I would like to thank Mr
Wright for his courtesy in sending me a
copy of the proposed amendment and
notice of the meeting otherwise I would
not have known about it there's a quote
that is attributed to a Canadian that
seems relevant here
tonight and it states in part they say
there are strangers who threaten
us those who know what's best for us
must R rise and SA save us from
ourselves quick to judge quick to anger
slow to understand ignorance fear and
Prejudice walk hand inand it's
attributable to a writing called Witch
Hunt thank you for your time thank you
Mr berett I actually have have one
follow-up question um yes sir with with
the business as it was was um taking
place was there uh what was the nature
of the cutting of of wood that was uh
taking place on the property uh there
was no meaningful cutting per se as an
effort to mitigate noise with it when we
would have round you know rounds of
firewood brought in you know essentially
in the size of it of of of 16 inches in
length we would split that by hand to
keep the noise
down on occasion maybe three times four
times over the course of a six-month
period we might have something that was
a little too long and you might need a
chainsaw to to to cut that into a a
reasonable
length and and what times would would
those chainsaw cutting activities take
place never before 9:00 a.m. and never
after
5:30 a chainsaw from a decibel noise
rating level is similar to a lawnmower
can you tell me where you where this is
again your address yes sir it is 20905
Southeast 83rd Place yeah thank you
thank you
again is this an audio audio recording
yes thank you great video yes how do we
request a copy of it um if you go online
it will be online in a few days great
thank you very much thank you
um9 the next person that is signed up to
talk is gu and I can't
read I can't read his name so please
come to the microphone introduce
yourself and state your
address hi my name is G doverspike I
live at 20926 Southeast 83rd place in
isqua and I'm a neighbor of Mr Barnett's
there are can you hear me I I I don't
know if I'm losing my hearing or if it's
if have a hard time hearing is that
better I have to lean forward but that's
okay um we have other neighbors here as
well um so uh let me start by saying um
by thanking you for allowing me to speak
first of all and second of all uh Mr
Barnett has a a compelling story but
hopefully you have ways of factchecking
that story um and parts of it for
instance lawsuits you should be able to
look up there has been no lawsuits
against him he has filed no police
uh things on uh vandalism and things
like that and you can actually hopefully
check with the compliance office about
times that he has physically he actually
told them that he's not running a
business and if you look at that we had
Craiglist listings uh uh that show that
he was so then he finally admitted he
was running a business and that's when
they forced him to start uh the business
license process and and going through
all that so there
are uh let's just say he's not entirely
straightforward with his
story and hopefully you're able to check
that out um I'd also like to point out
that we're not talking about a small
amount of wood in here right you have
the pictures they're Stack Up taller
than a man they go easily 30 feet easily
60 feet um this is a massive amount of
wood that we're talking about so this
isn't some small business he's in and
out
round
trips during the winter uh fall probably
30 or 40
times um during the summer it does slow
down uh last time we talked to him about
this he claimed that he wasn't doing any
business at all even though it's the
same number of trips the same amount of
wood that he was doing when he was
running a
business and so right now he's
um still doing the exact same activity
so it sounds really suspicious right
when he says he's not running a business
and yet the activity level is staying
the same um they mentioned the character
of the neighborhood I don't think anyone
would want what's going on here in their
neighborhood I honestly don't I think
anyone would have an issue with it
Safety and Security was brought up if
you read our brief you'll see um there
are Safety and Security issues there are
fire hazards he he actually
leaves electrical cords and gas stacked
in with his
wood there are health issues around um
and King County actually talked to this
they said um that the Firwood and uh the
associated work on cutting it up creates
material that attracts rats because they
can build nests in it and they can find
shelter in the wood so it attracts rats
obviously rats are uh a concern for a
disease of many
kinds
um and uh the other aspect is he leaves
debris on the road we I have to stop on
a regular basis and pick up not just
wood hunks but sometimes tools things
like that which you know late at night
that's not a good thing because
sometimes we can't see it and our cars
run over
it so um I I do believe there's Safety
and Security issues with this and I
believe like it says in the brief in any
place uh where you find this kind of
business that's going to be a natural
side effect right if you have a truck
that's going down the road um you're
going to lose part of the load and in a
residential neighborhood you're just not
expecting to run into that um it's not
something that you would expect so
um do you have uh oh I wanted to make
another point so there was the 500
square foot right uh that's part of the
standard code so this is well and Beyond
and expanding that so you know if we
kept to the 500 square foot and as many
cords as you can fit into that to run a
business you know that's that's fine
right that's that's reasonable to me um
and around heating for just home use I
used to have a 200t house that I heated
with
wood uh out in Monroe and and I could
heat that house with about two cords it
wouldn't quite go through two cords in a
winter and that's even when the snow was
on right so that's that's a pretty big
year so I don't buy this 10 cords I
don't know anyone who borns 10 cords of
wood in a winter so I just don't believe
it and even if it's true so haul it in
twice right um to me five cord sounds
like a
reasonable a reasonable
number
so from what I understand
from
previous Barrett Barnett Barnett um has
been doing this for a long time yes
we've been actually working with the
city for a long time on this issue and
uh he actually didn't do it for the
first two years he was there so there
was probably about a two-year period
where he wasn't doing this and then he
started doing it and there was probably
we talked T to him a few times about the
the property damage he was doing on the
road we we asked him to not he said he
operated during certain hours that's not
true he wake woke people up probably 6
6:30 sometimes in the morning and
sometimes it goes on to 9 o' at night I
mean he has workers there right so even
if he's not doing it his workers are
doing it this isn't a smallscale
business I mean it's not huge right but
it's not a small scale I sell a c of
wood once a month business it's it's
large scale he has had large commercial
trucks you see a picture of what he has
right now which is a large pickup truck
with a fairly substantial trailer that
he's built the sides up on so that he
can haul a lot of wood and it does a lot
of damage to the
road so Ju Just to be clear the the all
the wood is being brought
in bigger chunks and everything then
gets chopped and it gets chopped down
that correct goes back out that's
correct and you can see the picture of
the wood splitter there he runs a wood
splitter and chainsaws both so can you
address the noise issue yeah like I was
saying you know sometimes it starts as
early as 6 6:30 in the morning sometimes
it goes to 9:00 at night and we live
actually almost on the far end as far
away from him as you can get on our road
and you can hear it clearly in fact you
can even hear him when he's loading the
wood we know when he's because he's
throwing it in so we hear the boom boom
boom as he's loading the wood I was
going to ask what kind of noise so but
chainsaws the chainsaw we can hear he
likened it to a lawn mower and if you've
ever operated a law uh you know people
don't wear ear things when they operate
a lawnmower right you do wear air
protection when you operate a chainsaw
if you're smart because otherwise you'll
destroy your hearing yeah not equivalent
at
all have you have you had or others in
your neighborhood had any negative
impact on the value of your property
your home sales whatever my case might
be I certainly couldn't prove it but my
question would be would you want to move
into a neighborhood that had that kind
of a visual blight on it you know I I I
haven't gone and and asked a realtor to
tell me what impact that has so I
couldn't quantify it but I could tell
you if I was thinking about moving into
that neighborhood I wouldn't do it now
right me personally
as a
realtor I agree um as a realtor you
would move in well I wouldn't but I I
I'm saying that uh this could have a
serious impact on the value of the house
I would assume so I would think so even
though I appreciate somebody having a
business and trying to feed their family
and do the right thing
it sometimes can't be at the detriment
of the neighborhood of the people that
live there of this of the roads of all
of the things that happened so um I'm
just surprised that it has gone on so
long um and nothing has been really I
mean he hasn't stopped so nothing has
been enough to stop stop this so what's
what's the topography there as in is it
hilly I mean is there access to a
backyard or is it I mean does it have to
be in the front yard I guess well he has
uh so he rents the house it's about like
he said about three and a half acres
That's Not Unusual in that I it varies
it's uh right now uh five acres
grandfathered but I mean five acres uh
is the zoning but uh a lot of the
properties have been uh grandfathered in
so are slightly less than that um I I
couldn't quote the exact sizes But to
answer your question he has about three
and a half acres he could except he
would have to probably chop down trees
and this is I'm not sure how many trees
he can actually chop down because we're
near uh a stream so there's some
protection going on you know you'd have
to look into the details around that but
uh right now it is all in the front and
it is all
unscreened thank you thank
you okay guys anybody else no um is
there anybody else that would like to
speak I didn't that's okay come on
up just state your name and your address
hi my name is Todd Johnson uh my address
is 20920 southeast 83d place I'm a
neighbor of both uh GTH and Brook and Mr
Barnett so we actually live on the hill
on a hillside of side of squawk Mountain
uh past Mr Barnett's property so we go
up and down past it every day when he's
loading and unloading his trucks they
frequently block the road and I don't
think any of us really begrudge him you
know his livelihood it's just a
completely inappropriate scale business
to have in a
neighborhood I mean it's a you can see
from the photos that Brooke provided he
has very large trucks with
trailers that he Stacks enormous amounts
of wood onto and drags them up and down
the road all day every day and this is a
single Lane dirt road so this a a
significant issue for us and that you
know we're not on a a paved two lane
road where cars can get by each
other so uh I really don't I didn't have
any prepared statements or anything so I
could answer any questions that you
have one thing I I I would add uh so the
uh question about his uh property size
is approximately 3 acres only a very
small percentage of that is cleared flat
land it's mostly Hillside and uh heavily
wooded so all of the the wood that he
storing is hence concentrated into a
very large Pile in the front of his
house okay and and so if the screening
requirement at the very least were made
part of the ordinance uh that would
sufficiently take care of
the issues with the business as a whole
is that I'm not certain how you would
screen wood on this scale I mean it's
it's really hard to even uh picture even
from the photos there it's actually you
can see it from uh Google Earth pictures
very nicely it's just this huge circular
pile of split wood in the front of his
house and there was uh some brief
attempt to screen it by uh he he
mentioned that he had put up a fence and
someone vandalized it and that the the
gate he put up was just a piece of
plywood hinged to a 4x4 sunk in the
ground which promptly fell down and it's
been laying on the side of his driveway
for about the past nine
months so screening has not proved to be
very useful so
far thank you thank you I have a
question can you address um in the I
think the understanding was that a lot
of people have wood act in their
backyards in that neighborhood can you
address that I don't believe anyone on
our road or in the immediate area has
any sort of woods tagged up anywhere
that I've
seen certainly not on our
road thank
you I've just got uh two more pictures
that I'd like to enter into the record
that were given to me by the neighbors
and it again shows kind of the scale of
the the trailers that are in and out of
there and the size of the pieces of wood
that are stored there that clearly need
to be uh cut
up oh please um
uh so it's kind of good to be up here
and have somebody listen to such an
important issue that's impacted our
lives for a very long time to speak at
the microphone and your my name's Brooke
English and um Christopher Wright has
worked with us for a couple years now
and he's done a really good job and
every time we try to make some Headway
or make some sense out of this situation
we can't and this issue is so important
because it can happen anywhere and one
of the things that impacted me was when
he told me you can't do anything we're
on a private road and they can't
regulate me and so every time we've
followed the city's instruction and
tried to resolve this
peacefully he does what he wants and he
gets around it and he knows that on a
private road we don't have
everything the the police won't do so
much the damage to the road the city
doesn't come out and fix it we have to
fix it we have to pay for it and this
can happen anywhere and if people think
they can move in isqua and they can do
this and this is how it's
done so it is important the screening if
it worked it would have worked when
Christopher put it in place as one of
the mandates it didn't work it won't
work it has to be in the sidey yard or
the
backyard it has to be limited wood
because this is a
nightmare um and just for the record
could you state your address as well
20926 Southeast 83rd Place place and
there's only about we're we're a small
neighborhood we're only about seven
houses on that road and it is a deadend
road if we could bypass him if we could
go around him if there was any way that
we could not be involved with this
situation every one of us would do
it and I I heard the mention of um
litigation involving this topic uh
what's been the outcome of that so what
happened was
um it was it was L it was difficult
because Christopher Wright he had in
order to resolve the situation we had
gotten the city involved like what can
we do how do we figure this out and John
or Mr Barnett had decided to go legal
and apply for a business license and I
guess he did a good job we didn't go to
the meetings we didn't realize this
thing was going to get quite so
crazy and when they passed the business
license Christopher Wright notified us
we were on vacation actually and it had
a time um factor in it we had to within
3 days the was the appeal period or we
had to file suit and so we're like we
don't have three days we I think we had
like 24 hours we contact our neighbors
we contact everybody we like this is
insane they're going to tell them this
is okay and we know it's not I mean we
have serious medical issues on our road
it's not if an
emergency medical emergency will happen
it's when a medical emergency will
happen and that's how serious the
medical issues are on our
road so we had to make a choice we had
to say are we going to let this stand or
are we going to hire an attorney so we
called an attorney and we said this is
the situation we just want to stop them
and and have a voice in this and have
this make sense that's why the legal the
legal papers were filed and um we
actually filed against the city of isqua
as well we we put everybody in it trying
to show everybody how serious we were
and we are serious but we've tried to
work with Christopher in a different way
and put that on the back burner will it
work to go to court it's a long
protracted expensive thing Mr
Barnett it's just better if we can do
this peacefully and it's better if the
codes make sense so that this doesn't
happen again to
anybody is this the noise the stress of
our neighborhood
the traffic being blocked almost daily
from going up and down our road they ran
into them this morning going to work
that was about 7
a.m. yeah and he'd sent a picture a
couple days ago same thing he was
blocking the road this is
daily and the noise we go to sleep to it
we wake up to it he's they're always
doing something with the wood they're
slamming it in the truck you can hear it
they're chainsawing they're chopping it
I must be over my five minutes now
right so thank you thank you for having
us I hope you seriously consider it
because it's
important I'm GNA ask this one more time
is any not you um although you can come
back uh is there anybody else that would
like to
speak You're sure just making
sure okay with that I'm going to uh
close the uh public hearing at 7
30 um I do have one question for
Christopher um if you
do pass this and enter this into the
code what is the city's responsibility
and how will you act
differently to to enforce it to protect
the
neighbors that you haven't
done it will be a lot more
clear uh what is is enforcable and
what's not you know there'll be clear
limits on uh obviously where the wood
can be stored so that the piles in the
front yard would not be
acceptable um every time we've
uh you know he he he does not have a
license to operate a business right
now um because we revoked his home
occupation business license and uh so
when we've approached him and we've said
uh you know
what is all this wood he he's he said
it's for his personal
use and you see the pictures you know
but we we would have to go through some
you know sting investigation or
something to prove otherwise right but
he says it's for his personal use so
again that's where the putting a cap on
the limit what's a reasonable amount for
uh somebody to have for their personal
use that's where that came from so what
it does it it it gives us something we
can point to in black and white in the
code of what is either meeting or not
meeting there must be something in code
somewhere that as a one resident cannot
interfere with legal access to a
neighbor's property uh causing
consternation I mean I can I wouldn't
like to have piles of wood in my
neighbor's backyard I definitely want
the rats but
um I look at blocking the road as more
of a danger than having having the wood
there and I would think that the city
could work in that direction to say hey
this is causing
um a hazard to the rest of the
neighborhood preventing legal access to
their properties yeah and as they
mentioned it it is a little tricky here
in that it's a private road so the city
has real kind of limited enforcement
ability for what happens on that road so
that's kind of that it's a real issue
for them but it's not something that
that the city has a lot of ability to
enforce so is is there Homeowner
Association then who who Who's
responsible yeah I don't think there's a
formal Association but I think there's
some kind of loose joint maintenance
agreement of some kind but has there
been discussion with the homeowner not
just the him what what has what has that
conversation been like we we we've tried
many things and uh dealing with the
homeowners uh is is one a that we've
tried and they haven't been interested
so far in uh enforcing
anything oh he's renting the property
he's renting that's
right and has your conversations been
with him or with the owners of the home
with both how do the owners respond I
think you may have answered that yes
they're they're basically
non-responsive are they saying we're
okay with it we don't want to lose this
renter or I essentially
okay by lack of doing anything about it
they're basically saying that yeah so
it's still in the city of isqua yeah I
mean if you're wondering where this is
it's it's uh off of Sr 900 at the south
end of town essentially cross the street
from Talis is where this is there's a
few rural streets down there and it is
within the city limit on the side of the
nursery
yeah but it's see I don't understand
because it is in the City MH it is a
city whether it's a private road or not
that property is in the city and as a
city you should have the right to
protect people who live in the neighbor
in the city MH whether you own that road
or it's a private
road am I
wrong yes
well it's private property and right I
mean the road is private property right
and and
who does the road belong
to them the neighborhood joint
ownership
police would you come to the microphone
if you're going to
speak yeah so
um it's a joint ownership it's uh
easement that everyone
shares um and uh as I was saying we have
worked with the police and we have
worked with the uh fire department
saying that this is a hazard and uh
neither one has really the police is
it's a private road we have no
jurisdiction and the fire department was
like well they're not violating any of
our codes that we can go and and and I
said well what about electrical wires
and gas cans in the same vicinity as
wood doesn't that sound dangerous and uh
it was like well we don't have direct
codes that deal with that and what about
blocking the way right and well we don't
really I mean if there was a fire if it
was marked as a fire thing we could go
in in there and get rid of them but it's
not a red curb right so um they didn't
have anything that they could do for us
basically so will this
change affect any of what we've just
been talking about or just work on how
you store our
wood it won't have any it won't change
any of the ability of the fire or
anybody else to um yeah the the the the
the Road and access issues are not being
addressed in this
now so but like I said what what it will
limit hopefully is the number of truck
trips in and out of there how many
people are coming and going how can you
limit that well by limiting the amount
of wood that's there and the fact that
it needs to
be stacked and stored around the outside
would alleviate the the Mounds of wood
in the front yard and you know just the
and if if if it it can clearly only be
wood for personal use and not to be
sold then you know any amount of trucks
in and out of there but you're
regulating the
road the problem with the the road seems
to be the what he's doing with his
property so if you can regulate what
happens on the no I I understand and and
I understand where you're getting to
it's just the fact that um if you
regulate the number of trucks then
you're regulating basically the road so
okay yeah and my biggest concern is that
we're using you know a Citywide code
process for one person and sweeping up
unintentionally others in that process I
mean we don't have a cords per square
foot limitation I I do think that we
need the neatly stacked elevated um rats
are the problem with rats is a hazard I
think there are other things that could
be done um things such as um you know
even if we allow a business limiting
cutting hours um or eliminating cutting
completely and allowing just storage and
sale um but we could also impose gross
weight limits for trucks and um which
along with the number of trips would
would alleviate some of these Road
blockage issues uh we could um eliminate
the use of log splitting for log
splitting machines for any homebased
business
and we could regulate as a safety issue
which could give some teeth to the fire
department um if we looked at the fire
code uh placement of wood shavings um
gas setbacks from any wood or wood
shavings and use of electrical equipment
around any flammable material which
could provide some enforcement ability
um as opposed to just treating it like a
um the straight code violation it would
then become a safety issue with with
some potential enforcement issues
um things like eliminating the use of
trailers um for any homebased wood
business um but I I think if we
just take a you know huge axe to the
code for one person that we could have
some unintentional cons consequences and
that concerns me I I would concur with
that um I feel
like I don't know if this issue has ever
come up with anyone else I would assum
assume that it hasn't um so making one
specific code requirement for one
individual um yeah it doesn't make
complete sense to me and it seems as if
we need to have a clearcut way no pun
intended um
of enforcing something that if you know
if it if there's violations right now
that
he's he's obviously in violations of
certain things and there hasn't been an
enfor if he doesn't have a business
license you know there's ways to prove
that we ways to go about that I I just I
just feel more comfortable about doing
something like that before we you know
change a whole zoning
code that's my
feeling I understand what you're saying
my my concern
is that if this is allowed to
continue with
no
regulation you have opened the door to a
tremendous number of other violations of
such kind of property
usage um the gentleman sat here and said
I don't have that much wood in my my
yard and then we said
DS
okay now I don't know when you folks
moved in there whether he was there
before you were there okay but
his presentation wasn't factual I don't
believe okay and I I I was in a
neighborhood many many many many years
ago in Redmond that didn't have control
over uh what um went on in your
driveway or your
garage and there was a individual who
bought the home but he did Auto Repair
in his garage and in his
driveway at the entrance of the
development and the values of the
properties the noise that it je it I
mean I I experienced it so I'm kind of
in your
shoes not this type but you know when
you've got somebody who's got you know
pickups up on on racks in the back in
the front driveway of their home and
this was a reasonably new development
but there was no controls or maintenance
now they've changed
that just because this is out in the
Hills I don't think we ignore
it because it's out somewhere else out
in the in the the Timber and and
wouldn't impact wouldn't impact uh Trey
Soxs or some other neighborhood is what
you're going what you could have happen
is have somebody come in and say well
you're allowing this out there I'm going
to do it here I think I'll own it I'll
open up and start repairing my
automobiles in my
garage I don't know I'm I'm challenged
by this yeah well and that and that
comes down to an enforcement issue to me
I mean we already have Provisions for a
business license requirement which it
appears that he's violating um we have
requirements that it not rais dust which
it appear that he's violating with the
saw dust
um outside storage he's he's violating
the outside storage Provisions I mean
there are already mechanisms in place
that just aren't being enforced but why
aren't they being enforced that that
that's what I feel like yeah why are the
existing rules not being enforced if if
we throw more rules on are they you know
it just comes down to additional rules
that wouldn't be enforced well we no
he's not going to move well we we have
tried many different ways of enforcing
and uh it comes down to what is the
police department willing to do with
regard to their other priorities is this
a priority for them what is the the the
court uh what's the dis you know the
city's attorney willing to do um you
know to take up court time and and
so uh right now there's no uh there's no
code that says he can't have that much
Woods stacked up in his front yard but
there is one that says he can't have
outdoor charge I mean that's for home
OCC that's for home occupation which if
you ask him he says he does not have a
home occupation yeah and that that's
where I think the the stacking
Provisions I mean I I I do like the
stacking Provisions I I think it's a
little over broad uh in terms of of the
limitations and and no linking to the
acreage I think those Provisions
definitely but if you had those
Provisions as far as uh stacking back or
sidey yard um would those be enough to
to engage action do you think I mean if
or I think so like I said if if it's
something that that are code enforcement
officer can clearly point to and say you
are in violation of this clearly you
know without getting into is he selling
it is he not selling it um so so say if
there's another person that lives up on
um squawk mountain and uh they want to
sell some wood they they would be
affected by this code but they want to
you know maybe there's a way that they
can do it and maintain some you know
nature with the or maintain the quality
of the neighborhood I just I I kind of
trying to see from their perspective
they wouldn't be able to to do run their
business anymore well I would think that
if you have if you have a couple cords
of wood that you're trying to sell on
Craigslist I mean your neighbors are not
going to turn you in it's going to be
just the same as selling a matress
selling a car so I I don't think that
this is going to be affecting that and
I'm I'm actually pretty comfortable with
having the adding to the list because
there I mean you just look through the
list there's a lot of other things that
you may have wondered you know why is it
there but those are um um occupations
that make noise that are disruptive that
you know that's not it's not a
Consulting business somebody on a
computer I don't see the need to make a
law unless it's going to be enforced so
if this person you know what you just
said and the neighbors won't turn them
in I don't I wouldn't feel until it gets
to the point where it's a nu we should
make a law where well you know it just
gives another tool in the you know in
order to to be um dealing with this so I
I think that the idea of adding sail of
firewood is a good one to this I'm I I'm
on a well I'm on the fense about the the
number of cord uh of wood um the four
four was it four or five five five
because personally I have no knowledge
of uh does it is it something that five
cords um is it something that really is
enough or not enough for to to heat a
house um over the winter um I mean I do
see the need to not keep bringing wood
either so if you want to as long as it's
nicely stacked and uh not a nuisance um
I I'm not sure there that the five is
necessarily good or bad as a number um
but right and the city wouldn't be
driving around with the yard stick you
know it's based on complaints obviously
how many cords of wood would you say is
in this
picture I don't know anything I don't
know 4x4 by
8 by8 so that's one chord fourx I
thought that was the five chords no
that's one cord 4X 4 by eight is one
cord okay so that's a lot of wood
already so
okay I'm more
comfortable okay
the problem with you speaking down there
is the people on yeah and and just for
the record she had said that that
appears in the pictures that we have in
the record that um I believe said
approximately 50 chords to 75 50 to 70
75 yeah yeah
guess addressing that the number of
cords more than five um if I did
uh heat my home only with wood and I had
the space to put it and I got this great
deal on seven cords of
wood um I would be in uh an illegal
situation and so it's it's nice
to um you're going to put something in
here you got to enforce it and so if you
know that somebody delivered seven cords
of wood to me
and the city has the obligation to to
put a little red tag on my wood or
something I mean you have to enforce it
and so I mean I I don't like 48 or 50
cords of wood but I don't I do have a
problem with just limiting it to five
it's are the
99.9% of the people going to buy more
than five courts no but you have to be
reasonable in in some instances here now
let me ask you this I mean one one of
the um key things I talked about was the
there's no cleared land um with which
you could store it behind or to the side
um if we made this um five cords
per um I don't know 1,000 2,000 ft of
cleared um available space I mean then
then you're kind um and and keep the
back and side requirements for screening
from the adjacent properties um or sorry
uh kept in the side or rear yard
requirements and that would alleviate
most of the concerns at least as far as
uh this particular problem is is
concerned but still allow people to
have a fair amount I mean I I I think
there needs to be a a hords per square
foot of cleared land requirement is what
I'm saying I think can you explain the
code enforcement process so we can kind
of understand yeah um so they're in
violation of some codes right now how do
we get to actually be
enforced well the uh code enforcement
you know for something like this is done
on on a complaint basis right uh like I
said we're not necessarily driving
around looking for
violators um and how it's done in a case
like this is is you know it just needs
to be a
clear uh they need to be violating
something that that that just is clear
in black and white in the code and like
I said the right now there there's no
limit to to where W is storage stored or
how much you can have or how it's stored
there's no regulation about it at all so
if there was a regulation that said it
had to be in the backyard or it had to
be be in and Clos how would it go how it
right then the the code enforcement
officer can go out there and it's clear
in black and white you're in
violation without you know having to
prove something else it would be clear
that's what we're trying to get at okay
so then they go out there and they tag
it how does a would the police get
involved or yeah not necessarily no it's
we give uh we give the residents a
certain period of time to go come into
compliance let's say 30 days okay um and
at the end of that 30 days if still not
compliant we can get into a a period
where they're getting fined every day
that they're out of compliance that's
how it works and then what when's the
end what's the end end of it it just
continues on and and if he doesn't pay
he doesn't pay but he's well yeah then
then you know at a certain point and we
we we haven't gone this far before so
I'm not sure exactly how that would play
out or when but it's at some point then
it goes to court and there yeah yeah and
then it does become a police matter
okay anything
else I like the idea of U of
requiring the aesthetic value of it
rather than the quantity of it um
stacking
elevated backyard screen if
possible very nice neat row of Stack
wood is actually pretty nice looking uh
rather than uh limiting it to a certain
number and yeah like like I said that
the the if if the five chords is an
issue then like I said that's SEC that's
not a big thing that the city is real
concerned about either that amount it is
mostly where and how it's stored that's
what we're most concerned
about so I know that you are suggesting
some
additional uh things things to add to
the code do does anybody else do you
want to be specific of what you think
should be
added I I I don't know if I interpreted
your your comments correctly but I don't
I I wasn't comfortable with regulating
the um business of a selling wood but
putting requirements in there of maybe
putting the wood in the back um
screening it or something to make it so
that they you know this this won't
happen again but I just I'm trying to
think of someone that could want to have
a business selling wood at some
point um I think as worded right now I I
probably would not vote to advance it um
I I have the similar concerns over the
sale and whatnot but if our immediate
issue is a property like this where it's
stored in the front if we were to uh
keep 180720 5 um removing either
removing or modifying the quantity issue
and striking the last sentence um or
substantially changing requirements on
that I don't think I would vote for an
outright ban on the uh storage and sale
of firewood as a business either um but
I think it might be simpler for tonight
for the purposes that we're discussing
to table the um occupational ISS isue
and stick more with the uh storage issue
is
it as it pertains to the coat
enforcement can I
comment why not thank
you um my worry about this is John has
been shown amazing resiliency and being
a able to avoid the letter of the law or
even when he's violating the law knowing
what laws he can violate and not get
caught up in it uh if you don't control
the amount of wood if you don't control
um uh somehow come up with a way of of
controlling that he will continue to
still have traffic coming in and out I
mean maybe he'll clear area in the back
maybe the visual disruption will go away
the visual thing will go away um
although that
property since we're only encouraging
screening in the code um there really is
no way for him to effectively screen
that property unless uh he left a
barrier of trees and went back somehow
behind the trees but um the uh My worry
is that you'll still have a ton of
traffic coming in and out
again you know 2030 trips a day uh that
that's round trip trips right so 40 to
60 a day and and that's covered
currently under the
code that was 20 if it's a home
occupation there is a limit on the
number of trips but again he doesn't
have an approved home occupation yeah he
he'll always say it's not I'm not doing
this for business right and the police
aren't willing to do a sting right on
this so but there are no limits for
residents on the number of in
out so I just wanted to share that worry
with you no limits on number of Vu
leader that each residence can I could
have 25 of my best friends come in and
out of my house all day long without
anybody I remember
those this
says regulate home occupations because
of the potential impact to the
surrounding neighborhood I mean there
are things in here that address more
more than stacking of
wood or are
these uh stuff that's already in the
code and we're just adding at the end
of okay so these are already in the
code
and not being enforced as they apply to
a home occupation yeah but you know if
if I take this as as his this is an ad
for the sale of wood if this is indeed
him he is working without a business
license and he should
be shut
down is there a way to go around the
state of Washington Department of
Revenue check and see if he's paying his
B&O
taxes well I don't
what is there a way as a planning policy
commission we can order a
sting I just say we've we we have talked
to the police department and and we have
determined that a code Amendment like
this one would be the most efficient way
to uh enforce okay so the police
department has stated that if it is
exactly the way the new code is written
permits them gives them more opportunity
to supervise
and well we would be able to enforce it
with our
development services department code
enforcement and not depend on the police
basically Z wait oh no never mind
um you know I'm on the board of our
homeowners association um
and we have the ability within the HOA
to limit the the parking of certain
Vehicles out on the
street uh based on the agreement that
was made with the HOA to do so and we
have a process that we go through if we
have to enforce it and it works so if a
HOA can do it why can't a
city they smiling would you like to form
an HOA so that and recorded docum So
that about something complicated no it's
not complicated we actually it is it is
a little complicated to form an HOA
after the uh the buildings are up
because while Washington state law
declares you know what an HOA can do and
what it can't do there is no law stating
how you form one so you kind of have to
do it when the community goes up and or
get everyone in the community to buy
into it I don't think we're going to
get John's uh you know homeowners to
agree to everybody yeah I'm just trying
to be unre reasonable here come on guys
got to
help okay um we've tried most of the
paths that you're talking about you know
we've tried all kinds of
things
um there are other specific occupations
that are called out in the code like uh
dog
kennels um you know you can't small
engine repair yeah so I mean it's not
specifically uh calling
out um someone who sells firewood any
more so than somebody who does that dog
kennel I mean there's a rules and
regulations that have to be F you know
followed in the code and there this is
just
adding you know there are when cities
are
formed um some things don't exist and
then all of a sudden you have
a um the code allows a um certain type
of building in an area in a residential
area that doesn't fit in with the
neighborhood but it is still built to
code and so you change the city changes
the code so it doesn't happen again so
things are always in flux and moving
give me your
opinion well I have heartburn as
everybody else does with the with the
number but I'm not sure that's going to
be a big
issue and I would
think
overall I think you could set
five boards and with everything else
that we normally do if for some reason
the city would start getting a lot of
complaints that I can't store my
firewood
Etc uh that could always be changed
and I think that this is no more
egregious than small engine repair
painting boats or cars or anything like
that in the neighborhood
and I would have I would approve
it same here I have Uh I that sale of
wood fits very well in that list in
terms of the type of noise visual
traffic kind of impact that is
associated with the other U occupations
that are not allowed on the list
um
still the only thing is the five chords
and that's not a major I mean from what
I hear it just sound like it's a one
that if you have five and a half
somebody is not going to come and after
you for that and uh uh two if it is
really uh four by 20 by 8 it's quite a
bit of
wood 32 square feet does anybody else
have a comment before we are you willing
to vote on the on the code
adjustment break it down doesn't isqua
have like a history of logging and
sailing selling wood and I mean I mean
isn't that like our history or something
I I don't know I'm just
kid no it's Town not in a residential
area it's not in our history if it's not
I don't not for the last 100 years
anyway or 50 years okay we have two
things on uh that we had discussed this
evening one was a firewood and I need a
motion to
approve as
written and I have a motion to approve
the all
180725 yes the code the entire the
change in the code the addition to add
firewood to to the present code I move
the second of motion all those in favor
I I I all those opposed I you're opposed
I am opposed as currently written yes
okay so there are three yeses and two
NOS or yes yes pass motion
passes we got to do the
yeah um second thing on
our compl this evening is approval of
the changes to the Wetland reading the
Wetland reading and the change to uh
correspond with the state's adjustment
in
wording do I have an approve do I have a
motion I mooved it we approve do I have
a second I'll second are there any
further
discussion all those in favor say I I I
opposed thank you very much it was a
great discussion and I hope the city
understands that we are
trying very hard to bring out everything
and that uh uh thanks for coming out
yeah thank you so much for your com
really helpful in helping us
understand
city thank you it's really hard when you
you know you you have one side you have
the other side you know and and you got
to bring them together in some way so uh
but again thank you for coming
yeah thank you so much uh next on what
sorry took so long oh that's
rightel the second one motion
second a
Ford
okay she's raing
long and our
um many hours of discussion on the
transportation uh program for the city
um Gary Costa our uh Transportation
manager has an update on the
present great thanks a lot my name's
Gary Costa nice to see everybody I gu I
see some new members I haven't met
before um this is my 16th year in a row
of making the
presentation this is actually my last
one no so um I'm moving on all the
projects be finished so you don't have
to do it anymore well that'd be great
wouldn't it
overnight a better question is how many
are going to be finished how many what
are going to be finished oh well we'll
have at least two or
three so this is the uh 2016 2021
Transportation Improvement program first
I just wanted to mention that you know
this is the tip and the reason why we're
here is because the state law requires
that we have a tip that moves forward
that gets adopted by city
council um that the other the other
component that we're not talking about
here is the capital facilities plan and
the capital facilities plan is typically
the same as this except that goes
through a different process to get
submitted to finance and then the city
council will uh look at the projects and
decide what projects they want to move
forward and which which order they want
them in and they will prioritize those
projects whereas the tip the projects
are not
prioritized
um to be able to use state and federal
funding they must be listed in the tip
this is the state law that requires this
um state federal funding and the
half-cent gas tax
funding the federal funding which is
known as moving ahead for progress in
the 21st century act and there's also
the transportation Improvement board
funding uh funds that are used for
construction projects also need to be on
the tip
the U moving head for Progress um for
the 21st century Act was enacted in July
6th of
2012 that program is actually to its end
and now Congress is looking into
enacting another six-year program uh we
don't know what that is yet this was
called map 21 and it authorized the
federal service Transportation programs
for highways highway safety and
Transit
this year when we are processing the
2016 to
2021 uh tip uh we're coming forward here
tonight to the planning policy
commission uh on May 4th will be the
city council that will have an agenda
bill um on consent to set the public
hearing that will be held on June 1st
and then the city will present uh the
tip to the Chamber of government Affairs
committee and uh just so people
understand what the tip is can you
the
um I'm sorry I didn't hear your question
the
tip Improvement program yeah I did
mention that at the beginning the
transportation Improvement program um
that's what it stands for um sorry I
like I always use acronyms um so it'll
go forward to the chamber government
governmental Affairs committee on May
21st and also that evening uh the
council infrastructure committee will
take a look at
it then on June 1st will be the public
hearing once it's adopted a public
hearing then we'll submit the tip to the
uh psrc stands for Puget Sound Regional
Council and that'll be on June 20th and
then we'll submit it also to Washington
State Department of Transportation on
June 27th or by by those dates typically
it's before
that now this is a slide that I bring
out every year we've added a little bit
more to it um but during the past
several years uh the PPC has you know
asked for for certain things to be shown
in our presentation one of them we've
Incorporated the charts that show the
safety capacity and uh projects that are
related to
concurrency um it also includes a 20-y
year future years um project listing
that we continue to um
maintain in the past we used to have
uh a CIP or a tip that included Transit
and Transit supporter programs and those
were taken out and now are those are in
the operating budget but we still
continue to budget the route 200 Fair
boox which makes the route
free and we support the transit now
route 269 so the city has a certain
amount of costs under $119,000 a year
that the city pays for Route
269 we have a new route 628 that goes
from Northbend to isaquel Highlands and
that route is actually operating very
successfully and we're in the process of
uh working with Metro and they've
they've have committed that they will
start extend they'll start the route 200
the new extension to isqua Highlands in
June of
2015 and by March of 2016 and that
service change it'll be extended to
Swedish
Hospital the right time to ask a
question about Transit then sure so the
628 is there any plans to make the the
last part of it the iso Highlands part
permanent at some point as opposed to
having it on
demand you mean the portion that goes up
into the community uh no that'll
continue to stay as far as we know um as
a a dial in right dial to right route so
yeah you have any report on how
successful that all I know working been
successful I I don't know the numbers
off
hand we also include non-motorized
improvements in the tip through the
complete streets program uh complete
streets program is where we provide
improvements that include bicycle
pedestrians uh
everything which makes it
complete Beyond up and Beyond U uh
vehicles um includes crosswalks and also
at traffic signals the push buttons are
audible we've included the projects that
came out of the The Walk and Roll which
is the bike ped
plan and then we have projects that were
included in the non-motorized and
actually not in the slide you can't see
it it was fell off the screen there uh
it's nonmotorized
um traffic mitigation impact
fees so input into the tip has come from
many of these uh sources ources uh
requests from public the city council
goals um as I mentioned the central
isqua
plan the Walk and Roll which is the bike
ped plan uh we have a new concurrency
program so we had projects that were
analyzed for that new concurrency
program and those projects were listed
and then we have the roadway impact fee
and the non-motorized mitigation
fee uh and then tonight if uh whatever
comes out of this meeting the planning
policy commission and then
we have the Chamber of government
Affairs committee coming up and then the
trans the council Transportation
committee so here's the uh the slide
that you have this in your packet the
spreadsheet um what I'm showing here
with the blue colors are uh new projects
that have been added by Public Works
operations for uh three items uh one is
a Front Street railroad crossing the
crossing is uh fairly unsafe for
pedestrians and
bicyclists and it needs to be replaced
so this would be funds to allow that to
occur um you know we always need to keep
our traffic signals operating and
Performing correctly and uh traffic
signal Loops do fail at times so this
would traffic signal Loop replacement
would would help
releve issues we have with maintenance
of our traffic signals and then we have
signal poles painting which is in the s
Highlands the poles are flaking the
paint is flaking and those need to be
painted to maintain
those then the projects shown here in
green are new uh
sr900 and I90 eastbound ramps this is to
provide an additional right turn lane
coming off of I90 in the eastbound
direction to
sr900 to make that a triple Left Right
Turn there's so much traffic that is
planned in the 20e period and actually
now that that Improvement is needed um
and then the 221st Place Southeast
improvements this project was originally
in our
um North isqua roadway Network
improvements it was uh we were moving
forward with this a couple years ago as
a proposed liid we changed it from An
Li and and went uh was able to get an
agreement with with uh Costco uh however
we needed to reduced the total cost of
the project so 221st was one of them
that we took out of the um the north
isqua Network improvements so we wanted
to have that project in here because
there is some improve there are some
improvements that need to be made along
there uh for instance sidewalks
continuing the sidewalks where they are
missing and um just uh fixing the
alignment of the roadway and with the
creek that'll be moved Creek the isqua
creek will be moved away from to 21st
but there were no plans to do anything
with the street so this all question
about that so um is this separate from I
was trying to figure out the number two
62 Street um and I T both of those and
I'm very happy to see 6 Street finally I
think every year for the last many years
I've asked question about that area
because I kind of view that as The
Missing Link in in isaka right now in
terms of pedestrians and bicycles
um so is I if I remember correctly that
the hold up was always the liid uh for
that area but now you they seem to be
separated is that the same project in
two
different phas or so Southeast
62nd will start at Eastlake Sam Parkway
and there'll be a new alignment that
will go basically go through the south
end of those storage units okay and um
the the intersection point where it will
intersect with 4th Avenue or 221st will
be about 300 ft north of where that span
wire traffic signals
located uh that'll be the new
intersection will be a roundabout from
the roundabout going north we were just
going to tie into 221st so that's the
62nd project would only tie into 221st
and then on 62nd continuing to the West
we build a bridge that goes over the
creek and a bu bridge over the wetlands
that ties into where Costco is okay I
was wondering what the
bridge
yeah that total cost is that include is
that the total project cost or total
cost of um that the city
will okay anyway you answer yeah it's
total project cost um which one are you
talking about the 37 million yeah yeah
the 37 million is a total project cost
24 million of that or so is costos yeah
okay and then uh we have 9.75 million of
Transportation Improvement board money
then the balance of the will be um City
money where where if at all well
actually sorry we have $5 million of um
Department of Commerce funds also okay
and actually there's basically hardly
any City money in this project I see
where if at all and I don't know whose
responsibility is but on the the uh um
Main Street in I90
accident that happened I90 is all wash
do okay that's the state so even though
the event was a truck coming
through um on isqua uh Street are you
talking about where the truck that hit
the gerter yes um what's the question
well is that any responsibility you the
city no no that was a private P private
truck that caused that that damage so
they'll be liable their insurance that's
that's the state facility so it' be
state that would be making the repair I
thought so I just was curious
right then the the um number 21 in green
that's the northwest of am Road and
Southeast 56 Street
widening uh that basically
widens the roadway to a five Lane
facility
uh on 56 and Northwest M all the way
over to I90 just the amount of
development that will occur and with the
central isqua plan that needs to happen
for that to be
successful and then projects 33 through
39 were
basically all from the
um the bike ped plan um well no excuse
me um 33 is a bike pad plan 34 is bike
pad plan uh 35 is a traffic signal at
second and
sunset that's out of the um update on
the
concurrency uh sr900 widening uh is
another one that was out of the U
Transportation roadway
Improvement uh the southeast black
Nugget Road widening is same
thing um 51st Street East Lake s Parkway
that's from the bike ped plan that's
adding or excuse me no that's from the
um the traffic impact fee program to add
a left turn lane there and then the
Front Street and Northwest dog Street
improvements um is to signalize that
intersection right now it's a pedestrian
signal what's needed there is a full
traffic signal to operate the whole
intersection
so we go to 61 projects now uh We've
added 28 new
projects um number 44 is the Northwest
mamish road non-motorized
crossing um that's out of the uh Central
isqua
plan uh 45 is 56 street bike lane uh out
of the bike ped plan was identified to
make an improvement across East Lake s
Parkway between on 56 so it's adding
bike
Lanes uh
46 is the Gilman Boulevard bike lanes
and sidewalk that's basically along
Gilman from 900 going east to uh just
past
12 and Newport Way bikan
ramp uh just um north of sunset there's
a
quick um Divergent of the the bike Lan
that ends on Newport Way actually the
tra the trail it makes a quick turn and
it's it's not a real safe location for
that so that's what what R correct
that and then the Juniper Street
sidewalk would install sidewalks on
Juniper uh 52 is adding a new Trail
called the West School
Trail uh 53 is
um Dogwood Street widening uh and
sidewalk that's the Northeast Dogwood
east of Front Street
54 is DoD DOD field that ties in over by
the uh
school um 55 is squawk Mountain uphill
bike lane um very important project
um adds a bike lane and sidewalk going
up the hill 56 is tibits Park Trail
connection 57 Northwest Village Park
Drive bike
Lanes uh 40 uh 58 is on 43rd way the
bike Lane kind of ends and goes into a
shoulder and that will modify that
little connection to the
roadway uh 59 is La laughing Jacob's
Trail which basically parallels 43rd but
it's a trail that's away from the
roadway UH 60 is the water ditch Trail
um and 61 is syore crossing improvements
it's to help get pedestrians across
Front Street at
Sycamore with that this slide is showing
the projects by these are roadway
Improvement projects for the first 51
projects we're showing
here then it goes and shows U the
maintenance of the street
overlays and then all of the
non-motorized
improvements and then at the bottom the
other agency projects that's the sr900
I90 eastbound ramps and the Front Street
990
interchange for a total of uh
384 M1
189,000 and in your packet you had this
slide is continuing to show how the
projects relate between roadway capacity
Transit supportive sidewalks and
non-motorized
uh I think since you had that in your
packet I'm going to avoid going through
each one of
those and then this is a continuation of
up through
46 better see it and here this through
61
um it's a new slide that we've added
this year because we wanted to be able
to see what projects were related to
whether they're the roadway impact fees
that just got adopted this year and then
the the multimodal uh impact
fees so out of
um
um quite a few are are have a yes on
both columns uh but these are all only
the ones I'm showing here are the ones
with either a yes in one or the other or
both and through 45 this is through
61 and also in your packet uh typically
we show you know compare it to what's in
the comp plan and so we're trying to
continue to do that these projects are
the the roadway capacity
projects so the the right column are the
projects listed in the tip and those uh
correlate to what's in the uh comp plan
so you can see what projects we have in
the tip that'll meet the comp plan and
then the bottom half are projects that
have been
completed the second slide on that is
are the projects that are on the
non-motorized
component and the same same thing about
the layout of the
slide uh this wasn't in your packet so I
apologize we didn't must have missed
this when we got this out but we've
provided this last year uh where we're
showing in the six-year period um what
phase of the project we're going to be
in so whether it's design uh RightWay or
in construction the East Lake s Parkway
project we're getting ready to go out to
construction with that now um that
hopefully will be done early 2016 not
very far into
2016 in u the second one North is ofo
roadway 62 improvements were're in
design and we'll be going through the
RightWay acquisition in 2016 continuing
with design RightWay acquisition in 2016
and start construction in
2017 and then on the the number three
project we didn't want to start
construction on that roadway until we
finished construction on on 62 because
some of that project some of that
traffic will uh be using um 12 Avenue
once 62nd is open then we go and do work
on on 12th it's going to not have such
an
impact then we have the Front Street
railroad replacement this year or 2016
Street overlays for the next six years
annual Loop Replacements and then the
Holly Street will start
design um in 2016 complete design 2017
construction
2018 uh we got the signal pole painting
that would occur next year
in um 2018 we would start with the
design of three Trails Crossing that I
don't know if you know what that is but
that is dis signalizing the uh Rainer
and or sorry Juniper and Gilman
intersection uh Northwest Gilman safety
improvements would occur designed in
2018 and uh construction
2019 and the piine trail with would
occur start design in 2019 and 2020 and
Construction in
2021 and the Northwest samam Road uh
Missing when 11th and 12th over crossing
that's an important project we show that
in 2020 in RightWay acquisition 21 the
construction would occur in future years
now we're getting into mostly future
year projects um Sr 900 samam Road
widening actually that shows
construction that should have been a D
should be designed and then the rest of
those are design with going out in the
future
years and this is another slide that um
didn't get into your packet but we are
showing here where the projects are the
C is for um capacity related the N is
non-motorized M is for
maintenance um s is safety uh D is
drainage and O is operations P PKG is
parking so you can see here
basically how um how these project will
fit into those categories the pro the
type of project that they are
um pretty much pretty a balance of of um
a lot of the categories non-motorized is
pretty heavy um and capacity is fairly
heavy but we need additional capacity in
the city
so and this is the same
uh a lot more non-motorized in the
screen than on capacity increasing
projects and this is the map that you
have and I'm going to conclude my
presentation and I can answer any
questions so um am I correct that the
only um I90
Crossing tunnel bridge whatever going
from one side of the city to the other
is the 31 which is a nonmotorized uh no
there's several um let me just go back
to
see that would
add additional crossings that would
maintain or improve on current
ones so you have 14 is a Crossing 11th
and 12th over
Crossing so uh we have 31 10th Avenue
non-motorized Crossing and we have
another
one
um some am number 44 Northwest Mish road
non-motorized
crossing uh
31
and I think that's it
first one was 10 so there's
three 14 will include bike lanes and
sidewalk anybody
else Gary we uh we we pulled out of the
tip the the buses right is is there any
reason why we can't do the same for
those
uh the annual Street overlay the
complete Street program and the annual
Loop replacement no we can't do that
because those need to be here to be able
to use the state funds half cent gas tax
money uh and other state funding that we
might use okay so that need to be in the
tip the other question I've gotten it's
one that I understand the whole
system I'm curious as to how the
railroad crossing
replacement and the signal pole
painting all of a sudden never seen
those before and somehow
$750,000
appeared seems to me they should be
somewhere further down the line at some
of these other projects that are in the
Perpetual hold pattern should have been
able to move up a a little bit and I'm
curious as how that happens well on the
is it a matter of just that you've got
the money available and we're going to
do it or we have to do it because I
don't think you have to paint the sign
post the
poles as far as the the rail road
crossing Improvement we tried to get um
a grant we applied for a grant last year
and we didn't didn't get the Grant and
it is at a point they need to Overlay
Front Street because it's it needs it
and they need to do do this repair on
the railroad tracks so they can do the
overlay so it's kind of a it's catching
up to to um getting the overlays
completed
um the the the signal poles I think
those have I don't think I don't know
how long they've
been peeling the paint chipping and
peeling but I don't think it's been uh
very long
ago and we can't continue to let that go
because by doing that that's we don't
want to have to spend a lot more money
on having to replace poles okay I just
again it just yeah never seen it before
and all of a sudden it's not only on the
list but it's at the top of the list
where there's other projects I think
before they just put it into the um the
capital
request um we we left it on the TP
typically we probably wouldn't show it
on the tip it would just be in the
capital facilities plan but we wanted to
mirror image the tip with the capital
facilities plan so it really doesn't
need to be on the tip but because we're
making it so that the numbers come out
the same as a
cfp um it's on here really doesn't
really have a it's not a problem being
on here
okay thank you you're welcome I have a
couple
questions first one probably it really
doesn't well kind of fits into this um
we hear a lot about traffic
currency and so are all of these
projects looked at and included in our
present
ABCDEF of traffic
currency so there are okay let me put it
this way all the projects in the
concurrency are
here there are some projects that are
not in here that are not in concurrency
because we can't force a or I'm sorry
I'm thinking of impact fees sorry
um I would say most of these projects
are in the
concurrency when I say most you know
there might be something that's not a
capacity related
Improvement um it may not need to be in
concurrency but polls I understand that
but it it's hard for me to um anyway
that's just one of
my how you judge traffic and currency
how you judge this building all this
these new homes and facilities in the
city are going to be you know the
traffic is going to be uh taken care of
when you put all of these projects in
there and they're not going to be even
started till 2021 it's hard to justify
it now that might change um one thing
that did we didn't do in this six-year
period right now uh because we don't nor
know with the new change in the impact
fees that we're going to be collecting
we don't know how much money the city's
going to be bringing in with that once
we start collecting those fees and that
starts increasing then we'll be able to
modify this next year and add more
projects so we'll be able to start
adjusting that when we start seeing how
much money will be coming in through
those impact
fees second question is uh a lot of the
funding sources include the the Reit
right and what's kind of a general idea
what you expect to get in every year
with portion of the reate for Capital
Improvement what kind of what please the
reate that you get real estate excise
tax yes uh since I'm so involved with
the Realtors and the state and their new
um coming out with new issues and new
way to spend the Reit um I was just
wondering as a general idea how much
money you do the city
does uh get through the Reit in order to
be used for uh Capital Improvements I
wouldn't be able to answer the question
as far as the amount of money they get
but there's only certain portion of reat
that can be used on non-motorized and
only and only can be used on
non-motorized
25% go to the other portion can be used
on on roads but I don't have that number
I don't know I could find out for you I
know there's a lot of uh um looking
through all the different projects and
where you expect the money to come from
a lot of it is coming from Reed and um
wondering how much actually we get a
year in order that goes to fund Pro
those
projects anything
else as usual thank you and I'm sorry
that this is going to be your last uh
well it's been fun to come here and
present to you every year and
um well congratulations and I know the
city will miss you and uh we appreciate
all the stuff that you've done for the
city I know it it's uh not going to be
done but you still have to maintain the
numbers and put it in the right position
and I know it's a lot of work so anyway
thank you very much appr
service with that is there anything
else not on I'm
wondering and I'm wondering am I on now
and I'm wondering if there's anything
you wanted to add you usually say that
everything looks okay are there
different pieces often we add pieces
about Transit that we would like some
more money going to transit or we would
like them to look at certain things is
there anything that compelled you in
this presentation of things that you
would like to add to the recommendation
this year things that Council should
know about since you
asking um I I would love to see the the
I90 Crossings you know raise higher in
the priorities this is a big Central
component of the central EA plan and um
you know Isa needs that connection
between the two the North and the South
End of
it I want it all done
now duly noted before Gary leaves before
Gary can leave until it's all done sorry
can't do it we can use weekend hours for
to get it done by May
anything else thank you okay I'll draft
that up then that's all then big night
make sure that Gary does get his due and
you say has done a great great job in
okay putting up with the same questions
every year every every time I know the
three of you haven't had it as long as
the three of us have and we do ask the
same questions but a lot of the pieces
that he presents now is because of PPC
all the different ways of showing you
know are they safety improvements are
they capacity improvements are they I
mean that and also from going from the
sixth year to the 20 year that all came
from you guys because you always said
you know our plans aren't six years why
is the tip and so they added that you
know they don't send that part to the
state because the state doesn't require
that but that was all put in because of
PPC asking every year this doesn't fit
with what we do and so um you you have
had a good relationship with
Gary one of the changes that the
legislature is considering with the Reit
is to change the the way it's divided
but only if the top
six the projects are done within six
years and so I don't know how that's
going to affect how you get money and
what you can use the money for so
there's a lot of changes coming down so
if there's nothing else I'm going to we
all set close the meeting at
8:40 wow long night thank you busy night
you guys did really well there were some
tough we weren't quite sure how the
neighborhood if there would be you know
a fight in the audience or what that
would be like Christopher was a little
nervous I appreciate their comments but
I really appreciate these guys because
they really um looked at the situation
and came up with some thoughts you know
stimulating that's part that's fun
because it's a hard what was interesting
is that uh gentleman got up and
left