All right, welcome to the January 14th environmental board meeting. My name is Don Williams. I'll be your chair tonight. Um, as usual, we have a hybrid meeting tonight. So, some people online, some people in the room. If you're in the room, put your sign up and I'll call in order. I see them come up. If you're online, just put your hand up and I'll keep an eye out for you guys there on the screen. JC post. Great. And Alex B, can you hear the back of the room? Okay. Okay. Great. Uh Tommy Anderson >> here. >> Nancy Davidson >> here. Tommy has an excused absence. Pradi >> here. >> Pan >> here. >> Mina June. Don Mc Williams >> here. >> Alex Lee Ter >> here. Ann Newm, Keith Gonzalez, >> and John Smith here. >> Um, there any comments to the previous minute from the December 16th? Good. Any public comments? >> Yes. and pleasures to make public comment. >> Yeah. Why don't you come up to closer to the mic? Did I try to sort of face them too or fine? >> Yeah, just go ahead and face the room. That's fine. Okay. >> Hi. I think I can see everybody. Good evening. Um I'm an Fletcher. I'm a resident and a member of People for Planet Action. It's good to see you all again. Um, first of all, I'd like to thank the sustainability department for proposing improved and new actions to the building energy and transportation land use sections of the IAP update. uh many of them relate to uh people for climate actions critical uh actions and uh these critical actions will really strengthen our plan and achieve better results toward our greenhouse gas emission reduction targets. Um some examples of these uh that I saw in the memo were um to develop and expand energy efficient outreach and incentive programs. Um I'm thinking that energy smarty site is an example of that. And um with this one I would like uh you uh to consider in the implementation section of the updated plan a timeline for assisting most residences to make this energy transition over the next 25 years. That's about how long it'll probably take if we get on it. and it's needed to meet our 2015 target. Um second uh another item uh is modifying benchmarking program to cover buildings under 20,000 square ft. Uh this one fills a gap in our middlesized commercial buildings to make sure we're including everyone or giving all an opportunity. Um, next uh action uh is remove building code updates because the state energy code has made significant improvements. Uh, and they noted that it's good that advocacy at the state level is still in our actions because I just learned of a proposed state house bill 2147 which would dismantle the state building codes for the next 10 years. Uh these are codes that are currently have been working since 2007 very well to gradually increase standards uh for being green building and the proposed bill would even prevent cities from requiring the gradual increase. So um this bill should be monitored uh and its first committee hearing I don't think it has been determined yet. Another item action item that I noticed was assess potential for a home energy score or ordinance. This is new action and a priority uh for people for climate action. Um it has been implemented in other cities and states and our state has not passed legislation related to this uh for three years now that it's been introduced at the state level and uh in three years in a row and uh despite improvements being made to the bill to make it more affordable. So it seems like it may be time for um uh Isiqua to explore and act on this on our own. Uh and other cities have already done it. Uh, another item is accelerate market transformations of residential properties away from natural gas. Um, it's good that this is consistent with other cities and would allow for our the expanded programming that we need. One more house house uh building one um incentivize electrification for commercial properties. That's also another important step. Those are all really great I I think um the strengthening kinds of things in the transportation and land use department. There are also a lot of great actions. Um I'm just going to highlight a few that seem high highly critical to people for climate action. One is city code upgrades uh to improve climate and environmental protection across multiple pathways uh and expand sustainable design standards because things are uh technologically changing and there are more um more different things that you can do to be sustainable. We want to make sure that our codes reflect that. Uh the next thing is expand multifamily charging requirements and I appreciated the part that says with technical assistance always needed with multif family to make it work. The next one is advocate and partner regionally to improve transit network. Uh this of course is a really basic one. Uh but it's great to add the demand shuttles and the exploration of free ridership on some routes. I think that's a a a good addition for us. And then another one is remove required transportation management action plans. There was no explanation of why there was the removal on this and so I'm um hoping that at this meeting I'll I'll find out more about that. Uh and then I just also wanted to thank uh you for the information um and the inclusion of ebikes uh and e- motorcycles in I learned a lot from those and I want to thank you for that aspect um getting into that because it's very timely. So I look forward to the environmental board discussion and I hope to learn a lot. Thank you. first agenda tonight is going to walk us through. >> Thanks. Um so this is I believe the third time we've had a look at our work plan. Um, back in December, we looked through the draft work plan and anticipating the needs and the topics that would come before the board in 2026. There were several suggestions from the board on additional topics that they would like discuss this next year. So, we have worked to incorporate them into the draft. And I'll I'll flag some of these items in just a moment. Um, tonight we are looking for any additional topics you all want to make sure are discussed this year or any of these topics that you don't feel like are necessary to come before the board. Um, we'll be asking for approval of the work plan tonight and then I'll be going to the mayor and senior leadership for review and approval. So, I'll walk through a couple of items um or just summarize kind of what's what's on the work plan for this year and there's one or two that we'll have just a bit of additional explanation around. Um so, the climate action plan update is obviously a big lift for staff and the board this year. We anticipate several meetings between tonight and April where we'll really focus in on those sections of the plan and work towards approval and a recommendation towards council. Potentially we may have a couple of special meetings uh just to make sure we get through all the content and have all the input from the um we have a few additional items that will be coming to the board um this spring. the storm water plan. Um and then actually one that was just added yesterday uh that's not in here is the transportation improvement um program. So that is another one scheduled for March. Um one a couple items that were requested by the board was around um emergency response and resilient efforts. Um Dave and I have talked with our emergency manager about bringing that into our February meeting where we'll also be talking about the community resilience and well-being section of the climate action plan. Um so we'll work with Jared to integrate that conversation into the um discussion around the plan update. Um there was interest in a followup on the wildlife and waste concerns. Um Sam provided a memo back in December that summarized the data and next steps. Um we'll have her come and have a conversation with the board and determine if there's any action that the board requests. Um and then moving in later in the spring, um we'll be discussing updates around the urban forest management plan. Um the board just uh requested a little bit of additional conversation around how the city manages forests for wildlife and integrate that into that conversation. Um and then there's been requests to have a conversation around streams and ditches. Nancy, do you want to provide a little more context on this topic? >> Sure. Um, so during the conversation, we've gotten a few emails from Connie Marsh related to streams and ditches and then I've had conversations with Jeff, the head of the parks department. Much of it, Conniey's concerns related to the water body that once parallel to the um reun trail near the new dot park that's being constructed by communities kind of where the temporary under construction and the issue is is that a stream or is that a ditch and how is it handled in the code? Um, apparently there's some confusion and the title 18 code isn't very clear on how you count ditches. Not very clear if that's if you have to go back to an 18 something map to kind of define it. Kind of wonder who built that code back to the 1800s to figure out if a water body is a stream or a ditch. So, I think there's some room here for conversation and but I did want to add something. So, I'm hoping that we can move that up. I cannot be here in May. >> Yeah. >> But I'd also request I know that um community planning is taking to the council um topics that are going to be considered in title 18. I don't know when they're but I know that committee has that happen and I would ask that this be included in it. I mean it's probably just a definition and in my conversation with uh Jeff Wling who's the he the director of hearts and he said yes he totally supported the idea of somehow coming up with the definition that works the issue came up. So we're going to get it right the first time. back to see if we can't get a better definition of what I did show them and what a stream is and not have to look at 1890 maps to figure that out. I don't have all the facts, but someone will bring it forward to us in the future. That's why it's hopefully region. >> Do you have a place to bring that forward? >> Um, yeah, I'll follow up. I'll touch base with Jeff and Minnie. um possibly April. >> We also need to include something about drainage pods, storm water ponds, >> a lot of those are integrated and those are those are typically separated from streams. They're not in line with systems. You should address eventually good style ponds. There's a lot of conversation going on about what happens when they turn into wetland. Suggest we have that session later alone is fairly ideal. There's how ecology defines um online how to >> add that. >> Would you like to bring bonds as a topic? >> Well, I'm just Is it something we should consider? It's another waterway. connect to streams. >> There's a lot that are actually developed. >> You have a storm water plan coming in March. Should we ask is it >> um Evan and Mike? Yeah. From public works. I could ask them to talk about how the city manages those. Yes. How many there are, where they are, how the use >> um so a few adjustments we'll be making. One is um adjusting the timing of the streamings of streams and ditches and I'll see when the t 18 docket um if how it'll line it up with that. Um, and then we will also be working with Sam over the next year as she starts to develop a compostable serviceware policy. This is part of a grant that we're doing jointly withish. Um, we'll have our regular kind of administrative procedures with board elections. Um, bringing you budget topics. One thing we're looking at for the board elections that some of the other boards and commissions have done is adjust the timing of electing the chair and vice chair so that if we have new members starting in May, they are not having to elect a chair and vice chair at their very first meeting before they get to know everyone. Um so looking at whether that's June or some um boards they've even pushed out to the fall. So, um, that may require a change to our, uh, rule regulations. So, a thing we're evaluating. >> Kind of on a different topic. So, this is on the budget. You start talking about the budget. In the past, the criteria for the CI was brought to the environmental court. And you talked budget over is that criteria coming back so that we could fire and climate related emphasis into that or is that an option like the CIP update and those criteria would be done in 27. So these will be the acts that David and I are going to be bringing forward. So, we'll provide you all a summary of what we're anticipating moving forward, how we're working with other departments on their budget ask um for any initial input. >> So, is this the big year for a budget or is it next year? >> This is the big year. Um yes. So, we'll be developing the 2728 budget this year. >> So, why is the CIP not be being included as part of that? This is big year. A lot of departments will be making requests for that. >> It is considered. It is part of that but the criteria is worked on in the off year with the budget so they rotate. >> Um and then moving in later to summer and fall um we'll be looking at the sustainable building requirements in title 18. Um, this is something we'll talk about tonight too with the actions, but currently we have a lead certification or green building requirement in the city and we want to allow other pathways for sustainable meeting sustainable building requirements. So, that's something we'll be seeking input um from the board on. Um there was a lot of interest in wildlife. So we added another topic around kind of everything the city does around planning programs and policies associated with wildlife. Um the other topic was around how we manage our forests for wildlife. This was there was interest in looking a little more broadly. Um and then again moving into some more administrative items towards the end of the year with our um reporting >> requirement. Yes. a natural systems checklist. Previously, we had asked to see examples of how that's being implemented. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Um, great. And then I think the other thing we're hoping to get in um at least one field trip. Um, we're also having conversations about possibly doing a tour up at Timber Ridge with their emergency manager to look at their clean buildings work on how they're becoming more energy efficient um as well as their emergency management procedures. So, we'll try and get a couple field trips scheduled throughout the year. Um, any other requests? Um, we'll be get storm water ponds we'll add in there. Um, we'll add in the the transportation plan and then adjusting the timing of the streams and ditches. Is there anything else folks want to make sure appears on this initial work plan? Recognizing it does update throughout the year as new topics come or more urgent topics. >> We're just looking for kind of a thumbs up. we can move forward. Okay, Alex Praj, any questions, concerns, revisions from either of you? >> Um, >> I had one question, Stacy, if there's an opportunity for us to invite the new mayor or any cedar um city leadership to come and meet us for one of our meetings that are upcoming. >> Yes. Um, I will ask about that. I know in the past they've kind of assigned a council member to come to boards and commissions. I think it fell through with our assigned council member a couple of times. So, I'll see if we can um have someone come. >> Great. Thank you. >> Keep going. Okay. All right. Um, so very similar to last time, um, or December meeting, what we're planning to do tonight is pull out a couple sections of the climate action plan and review the revisions that we're proposing to the actions. Tonight we're going to look at uh buildings and energy and then transportation and land use. Um we'll walk through all the proposed changes that we have for the actions for the buildings and energy first and then take input discussion and then we'll move into transportation. Um let's see. So tonight, really just looking for that feedback on kind of the action concepts. Uh we still have a lot of words smithing to do, but at least want to make sure that we're hitting the right set of actions and that you feel like we're encompassing highest priorities for moving forward in the climate action plan. Um, what I will do really quickly before we move into buildings and energy is have David just talk about the metrics committee because there was a question that came up from Tom today about metrics. So, if you want to just give a quick overview of that group and what they're going to be doing, that'd be great. >> So, um, the third committee that we have for the climate action plan, there was the previous committee on natural systems and one on land use. Third committee is going to be the veterans committee. Um Raj will be a participant in that uh committee. Um there is still space if any other insurance board member would like to join that. Um but we are hoping that um we'll kick that off soon and have about uh two meetings similar to the the other um committees, one in February and one in March. um where we are going to be digging into this question of metrics. Um how we uh assign metrics to actions, how how we handle metrics uh associated with actions, especially those that are uh difficult to um quantitatively uh measure or even qualitatively measure. um think a little bit critically around um some of the targets in the climate action plan. For the most part, the uh metrics committee is going to be focused mostly on process, how we're dealing with metrics in the plan. And then we'll be able to take that uh feedback and incorporate it into the plan itself as we uh fine-tune how the metrics um or how we're measuring uh the impact and implementation of the climate action plan. So uh hope that we can share out the results committee meetings uh in April and that some of this will be uh incorporated as we as we go with action. >> So tonight if as we're going through the actions if you're getting really excited about how we're going to measure all of them and report out on them contact David and you can join the metrics. I think Jamie is also going to be on it. Be great to have Jamie back in the lead. >> That is our next meeting. >> Okay. So, we're going to do there's there's not a special meeting around that. >> We have been talking about the metric for this current one. >> That'll be it. Yeah. >> So, we have ideas. >> Great. Um, so we'll move into buildings and energy actions. This is the first time you all are seeing these updated to the actions. They haven't been through a committee process. These were ones that David and I felt like we could um provide some recommended revisions to, as you heard from our public comment, we've um really tried to integrate some of the priority actions we've heard from people for climate action. Um so this section of the plan is really focused on reducing energy and fossil use in new and existing buildings. Um everything from residential to commercial. Um so like the December meeting, we'll walk through these. I'll walk through all the proposed revisions first just so you have a sense of um the full set and then we will take comments um questions. Um so the first one is developing energy efficiency outreach and incentive programs. That language we are proposing to retain. Um, we'll probably make a few minor modifications to the description language just so it can be a little more um encompassing and uh would include kind of the types of programming that we may do in the future. Assess potential for energy benchmarking program. The current language in the plan is to establish an energy benchmarking program. Um, we've shared with you all about our clean buildings incentive program. There's existing state law that requires energy benchmarking for buildings 20,000 square feet and above. Um we are interested in potentially looking at filling that gap. Um buildings 5,000 to 20,000 square feet where we would explore kind of the feasibility of having a local smart that would require them to report their energy use. Um, this is something a few other east side cities are interested in in doing. Um, it's a pretty big uh capacity hit to run a benchmarking program. So, we want to be really thoughtful and make sure it's something that we'd be able to handle in this, but it help fill that gap um for buildings that aren't currently covered by state real quick. Um, this was spoken to at public comment, but the next one is strengthen energy efficiency building codes. We're actually recommending removing that. Um there's really strong state energy codes in place. Um and we have several other actions throughout the plan that speak to continued advocacy at the um state level. Um I was not aware of the house bill that was mentioned earlier. Obviously, that's something we would track and if that went into place, we consider bringing moving this action that's currently in 2021 into our updated plan. Um, we have a new action where we're proposing to assess the potential for a home energy score ordinance. Um, this is spoken to in the public comment. It is a priority for people for climate action. Um this is essentially when a home is being sold, they report out um their energy score. Um the home is kind of rated for its energy efficiency. Um it is being used in Oregon. It's run at the state level. Uh I think we want to look at implications here and how that could work on a more localized scale or at a regional scale. Um, I think we have some questions about equity and making sure it's a fair program. There's a program down in Berkeley that um has a home energy score requirement and then there's actually some incentive dollars available to help people improve their energy score. Um, so there's just a lot of questions we have and and examine it further before we move it forward. Um, conduct electrification outreach. We want to retain that action. Um the next action was implementing the regional heat pump campaign. We wanted to expand that language um to accelerating market transport transformations of residential properties away from natural gas. Um, we thought this would be more inclusive of where our campaigns and programming are going where we will continue to um implement rebates and incentives for heat pumps, but we're also looking at hot water heaters and improved weatherization, um, battery storage, just a whole wide array of solutions for helping people transition away from natural gas. So, we just wanted to make sure it was a bit more expanded language. Um, this language would also mirror language um used in the Belleview and Redmond plan updates. And then the next one, incentivizing electrification. This we wanted to just differentiate by changing the language to incentivize electrification for commercial properties so that we have specific actions more focused on residential um and those focused on and just really emphasize that importance of working with commercial um advocating for increased electricity grid reliability. We are recommending retaining that. Um enacting an all electric building code. Um that is the current language in the plan. We are recommending changing that to assessing potential policies and partnerships to advance electrification. Um all electric codes have been challenged across the country in court. Um, we don't know if there's a pathway for that here. We're not opposed to it. But I think with this revised language, it would allow us or it would open up the door for other avenues to look at regional initiative, state initiatives, or maybe it does end up being more of a local initiative. Uh but just to allow more flexibility versus focusing our efforts on a code that just may not be feasible um or may be um illegal as challenged in court. Um evaluating community solar projects. We're recommending revising that to allow for flexibility that would be um really looking at community benefiting renewable energy projects. So expanding beyond solar um and really just opening up the door so we can do programs and incentives and rebates for more than just um solar. And next one promoting renewable energy financing incentives. We're just recommending revising that to include storage. Um I think we're seeing uh really that promotion and programming around um battery storage is essential both for supporting um grid resilience um as well as kind of local resilience during power outages. Um and I'll just mention the last one real quick is encourage enrollment in PSC's green power program. We just wanted that's very specific. We wanted to revise that just for um for language similar to encouraging enrollment in offsite renewable energy programs that would just be a little bit more expansive than beyond PSC's green power program. That is it. Sorry, David. Are there other comments or things or just jump in as there's questions? Um, so yeah, we wanted to really just open up questions on any of the proposed revisions. What did we miss? The ones in here you really like, ones you want us to change. Um, really just want feedback on those that the board wishes to comment on tonight. >> Thank you. Have you first muted the >> Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah, I couldn't hear clearly. Yeah. So, Stacy, um, you know, I have a question associated with this regarding the electricity grid reliability and stability. I know we had asked the mayor at one time last year, you know, um if there were formal assessments and you know um real evaluations if the electricity grid or PAC PAC seems to be the primary provider and if their grid is stable or reliable enough to continuously provide the increasing electric demand. Right? Um and I don't know if this necessarily falls under the you know the ICAP or the environmental board perview but my worry is you know with all these um electric vehicles and all other uh green energy programs you know actually taking an effect suddenly we might find ourselves in a position where the electric grid is completely unstable or you know I may be exaggerating but my point is this needs to be done and this needs to be a city priority. Um, and I'm wondering if anything is being done uh in that respect and if there is any way we can push for that. >> Yeah, great question. Um, not sure I have a real clear response for you, but just a couple things that are happening. I mean, Bellevio and Redmond are actually funding their own studies to look at can the grid kind of handle electrification over the next 10 or so years. Um, and so we're looking forward to seeing their results and just seeing any kind of recommendations that come out of that study. Um, PSSE is um putting in more capacity in Isiqua. Um and then the other item that we'll be really promoting is a lot of the energy conservation, the demand response um type programs that PSC is running to really cut back on energy use even if there's increased electrification, cutting back on how much um is consumed where possible or making sure that um the timing of that consumption is when there's less of a hit on the grid. Um so we'll um we can probably share any kind of studies that come out from our neighboring partners and um once we have a chance to connect further with the new mayor just kind of see what's on his radar for working with PSSE too and share that back the group >> right I think I think that would be a great idea and you know means in some way I feel like you know we and the city needs to keep tabs on this you know because um Um I I I think that is going to be genuinely a hurdle all across the country not just for our city. Um and then I had one more question and I know it's not associated with this particular slide. Um, and I kind of forgot. I know we had looked at the emergency preparedness plan at some point and I know it was a part of IAP or is it a separate plan? We had looked at Stacy because I I had a question associated with that. >> The emergency Yes, that there is a separate plan. Um Jared, our emergency manager, will join us in February and talk a bit about the emergency management program and how they work on resilience. Um so sorry I just had one suggestion on that Stacy because I know I didn't say it earlier because for the environmental board work plan right I personally think every year we are seeing the weather related emergencies you know increasing this year it was flooding last year it was bomb cyclone you name it and something or the other is there and which is not necessarily expected by the city right it's coming in different forms we don't expect necessarily at that time or that season. Um, and so the emergency preparedness plan for the city needs to be a priority and I think maybe we should add that to the environmental board work plan for this year. >> Yeah, that's a good question. I don't it it is definitely a priority for the city. there is no board or commission that really advises on that plan. Um I can mention that as a that's a interest and definitely where there's the intersection with the resilience piece and the climate work. Um David and I try to bring those topics forward to you all. Um but I can I can plague that and just get some input from our leadership on thoughts. But I think we'll continue to bring those topics. I know Jared's um very interested in in sharing the work he does and emergency management is one of our think is on looking at our uh our 2026 priorities from the mayor but emergency management is one of those very top priorities. So you will see it come out quite a bit at council um over this next year. >> Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Um back on the one you're proposing to remove alto together the stren energy efficiency building codes. >> Um not opposed to that but maybe a reference to supporting the state energy codes monitoring them or something along those lines >> just in case they go sideways on something. Yeah, and there's a number of appendices that are proposed to those codes throughout the years um throughout the year that cities can opt into adopting. So, I think that's a that's a great amendment where we do monitor that um and work with staff to determine whether or not. So I feel like there's two things that I'm missing from this list and so I'm going to talk some concept. First one is it feels very much like we've missed the energy conservation talks about going to getting away from gas getting into the >> but there's no specific thing to continue to push energy conservation. People should turn their lights off when you go out of the room. A lot of those >> Yeah. energy efficiency or energy benchmarking, it's still you have to hear the words. They have to be something monitoring. It's something that you're pushing. I don't see energy conservation. And as you guys all know, I love all the lights at the Costco parking lot, but I love the seat turned off at some points are nearly shut down and even beautiful, but it's just doesn't send the right message as you drive down the freeway that it's lit up like a Christmas tree. I'm sorry. That's how I strongly feel about it. So, energy conservation and working with our community to produce this like I'd love a little more night sky in this community. I think there's an opportunity but I also think it's the right message which is we need to conserve energy even if we are using LEDs it still uses >> yeah that is great that is the intent with this first one but knowing that that wording isn't >> you got it that's great and >> just you have to send that's what we need >> okay yeah that's fantastic Is there another another one? >> No, the other one was you guys know that's my favorite question. >> And we'll be talking about dark sky when we get to community resilience and wellbeing. >> Yeah. So, I'm glad you brought up the um the grade reliability. Are we going to have too much electricity coming from it? Um, so the way I understand it leads into something that I wanted to talk about. So, and that Stacy um touched on a bit. So, the way I understand it is there's um we have enough energy um but there's certain times when we have peak times. So in the um in the winter the peak time is but in the in the spring and summer the peak time is just in the evening from 5 to 8 p.m. And then um now in the fall and winter it's from uh uh it's in the morning and the evening from 7 a.m. to 10 a.m. and then the PM one. Um and then sometimes we have you know the uh the pe we use a whole bunch of electricity when it's super cold or super hot. Um and those are the times that we need to try to balance out. And there's a lot of great tools to do that these days. Um, and then people are even using like batteries and um, they can fill up their battery like in the evening if you're on a time of use plan through BSC and get really cheap electricity and then um, use your battery to power everything else during the peak times. Um, and then there's like you can seamlessly seamlessly control your heater and a lot of your appliances. So I'm thinking maybe that is something like demand response is a little bit different than efficiency and um conservation. So I'm wondering if demand response should be one of our um columns >> because in my mind it's um it's going to be super important. And then um last year, maybe this last year, I went to I listened to a Northwest Power and Conservation Council meeting because I'm a total geek. And um what they were concerned about wasn't necessarily like more electricity coming on and EVs and stuff because a lot of people charge at night. they're they're really concerned with uh uh the data centers and Bitcoin and stuff like that. So that's what is throwing a wrench in everything all around the country and the world. So, um I'm not sure how we're going to control for that, but luckily at least some of the um some of the tech companies are paying for their own electricity and I'm not even sure if they're going to use the same lines because we don't have enough transmission lines to deal with all of that. So, that that was my first one. And then the second one is um around advocacy. So it everything's in there. Um BE24, you know, talking about um advocate for increased electricity grid liability through state and utility regulatory ruling rule making legislation. So and I know that there's like a legisl legislative person in the city of Isqua. So, um, as a as a citizen that likes to try to help guide the process and get the city to comment things on things that I think would be powerful, um, it would be great for us to know who those point people are, you know, like is it going to be the mayor? Is it going to be sustainability? Is it going to be this legislative person? Um, so maybe that leads to a fight and so they know who they are too. because everybody needs to know what their job is. >> Yeah. >> And maybe maybe they is there already a person that deals with all of that besides legislation. >> Um yeah, just the ledge update at the end of the meeting. Um, so the way it works with the city is we have a contractor that she has the city's legislative priorities and she's tracking bills and place them for staff um where they align with the city's priorities where there may be an impact to the city. So we don't actually have any particular a staff person um on point. Um and then that filters through um the staff that she raises them to to the subject matter experts. So like David and I are pulled into the energy sustainability related build that come through. Um, so it's a little different than some other cities um have their own government affairs or legislative staff that are reviewing the bills, but um here in some ways it's great because they're pulling in the staff that these bills would directly affect. >> What about um other commenting opportunities to the UTC and other regulation? >> Yeah, so case by case basis. So sometimes we're flagging those to um the contractor to say is this something we should be uh commenting on. In some cases it may be our legal team that we're flagging them to and then raising up to the mayor. We think it's important. So many of the items that you share with us um we would have reached out directly to Mayor if she was interested in commenting. Um still figuring out how that process. Yeah. Great. Thank you. >> This is just a question. Yeah, we're talking climate action plan here. >> We're talking a lot about electricity and fossil. >> Um I'm wondering where we talk about water usage consumption, conservation, is that in another plan >> that um so some of that will be covered in the section we'll cover we'll talk about in February. be our natural system section. >> Okay. >> Um but if they're around energy consumption associated with water use >> more about the resources, you know, buildings use electricity. >> Yeah. >> So it's covered somewhere. >> Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. So February. Um and we'll keep as we're preparing the materials, we'll keep an eye out for that. maybe flag it if we see it as a gap because I'm trying to I can't remember exactly the water conservation actions there. >> There will also be in the uh climate resilience section if some natural system actions get moved over to to that. Um it would be addressed a little bit there as well when it comes to water quality and kind of how water quality. Chain did you say did you say just water consumption or you're also talking about how the water runs off >> I was thinking mostly water consumption as city builds out all the buildings have to deficient standard That's right. And probably when the building is built, they're about half. Um, yeah, we should make sure that those are February meeting the natural systems water resources section. Um, we'll flag those for you all or maybe we see some gaps and need some addition if they're not sufficiently Rash. >> Yeah, thanks Don. Uh so I just wanted to add something to what um an mentioned and you know I think an you had a lot of good points and uh I do think the advocacy and you know um what you brought up is an important aspect and um to your you know comment regarding the data centers and you know how do we maintain the electric uh electricity grid stability. There has been some tools being considered and used and at least in India in some cities I know for a fact they have been used where the city um was proposed and created an alliance between the different businesses in that city where especially for manufacturing plants because they'll be using a lot of electricity in a single day or the single shift. They had a rotating schedule developed for the power usage where you know each um manufacturing plant will have one day or certain number of hours when they will not have the power at the facility. Mean that was just planned power outage for that particular manufacturing plant and so each of them were on rotating schedule to make sure that there is no sudden you know like the to maintain the stability of the electricity grid. So these kinds of things can be done and they need to be done more at a city level under policy and will be pushed out through businesses. I just wanted to bring this up since you know you mentioned data centers and these are some of the things that can be done or being done. That's pretty much it. Thank you. Uh yeah, on the resilience uh and energy infrastructure point, I think um it it was during the bomb cyclone, I think the charging stations were a really big thing at the resilience hubs. Uh and I think uh if it's not already being done, just making sure we're prioritizing uh that and renewable energy infrastructure at those sites and energy storage. Um so if there is grid you know unreliability that at least those places are um you know uh at those and those alternative sources energy one of your actions was about outreach and just thinking through that I think that just an idea for you guys concepts you need to really educate homes on how best to improve their possible. I think I think there's a lot of there's many ways you can your home add insulation potentially put those in electrical management systems that crawl space. Um point I want to make is that we got to careful not to have people come and sell us things like our new window is really worth a lot of times if you engage with company do some outreach they're just trying to sell we need to have sort of holistic look so we give homeowners that if the new windows white look cool nice but they may not do anything they may not significantly reducing costs as opposed to potentially adding legislation building outreach is a good one but I think we need to think about it be careful that we don't just have window sales committed to offer prepaid offer discounts on Yeah, that's a great point. Um, PSSE used to have an MV audit program where they would send a professional out to your home and kind of advise you on the top changes that could be made that would really improve efficiency. That program doesn't exist anymore. So, we've this has been a priority of PCA and we've talked about with the ESG bringing back the audit. Sure. There's a study that somebody's done that weighs all these alternatives study that could have been 30 years ago and it's still applying. >> Absolutely. Yeah. So, I think Yeah. I think that's a great great point and I'm hearing a lot of comments where this first one I think um while we I think we had a lot we were intending to put in the description that covered many of the items you all have raised tonight, it might be best to um break this one up to really emphasize that conservation, the demand response, the homeowner education. And so we'll look at how to break up a little bit more. >> Yeah, >> mine's a little It's just a little fun thing that I heard the other day. Um that is um in Australia so many people have solar panels now um you can get them put on really fast than a week or two um that there's a whole bunch of there's extra extra electricity >> and so instead of storing it um they are just giving people free electricity um during certain times every single day and so they can just use a whole bunch electricity during those times and then not as much nucle. So yeah, I'm hearing um probably splitting up those first one to make sure we're covering those three topics I just summarized. The conservation, demand response, and then that homeowner education around um best investments for efficiency. Um, Don had a comment around the state energy efficiency building code probably retaining that in some form that is around monitoring um and just and then to the kind of appendices that we continue to monitor and assess whether to integrate into our code. And then I didn't hear any other major changes to the action concepts. a lot of great feedback and comments. Um, anything that we missed in terms of and as feel free to you all think of something later this week, please go ahead and send those to us. All right, we will move into transportation and land use focus area. Um so you all have um touched this section in one way where um last summer we worked with a committee um to receive some feedback on how to revise this section. We shared that information with you all in the fall and then um we met with transportation advisory group and PPC to do some initial vetting of concepts and actions and policies um and and shared the feedback that we received from them with this group. So, some of these will look familiar. Um, but here tonight, we really wanted to get your feedback on this section, which is really focused on how do we improve land use to decrease reliance on vehicles and emissions from vehicles. Um, so again, I will just walk through each of these actions first to provide a little reasoning of the revisions we're proposing. One thing I did not know is um I attached the ordinance for ebikes and e- motorcycles just because that ebikes has come up in particular at conversations with this group and with the transportation advisory group when we start to think about actions that really promote ebikes. Um that ordinance is um it's really an ordinance for these motorcycles um which there's a lot of safety concerns, there's age restrictions. Um there's usage limitations. Um the city really wants to emphasize that they support and promote ebikes, especially the class one and two ebikes that go up to um 20 miles per hour. There will be some other restrictions for the class 3 ebikes that go faster um and just limitations of what they can be used, but the city wanted to ensure that this ordinance is not interpreted as trying to limit ebikes. But they really the city really sees them as um one of our tools in our toolkit. So um wanted to make sure that that was included or could be uh uh help you all in um providing some basis as we look at the questions. All right. So um this first one is a little bit of a combination. So in the current plan we have an action that is around incentivized dense mixeduse transit oriented development. Um, we wanted to kind of uh expand what was meant by that. Um, where this section of the plan really looked at a lot of updates to title 18, our land use code, which were completed, but we want to ensure that there continues to be a climate lens applied to city codes. And so we're proposing an action that's pretty broad, but it's about ensuring that sustainability, climate, and the environment are considered in updates to city code. So that would include probably mostly our land use code, building code, um would be probably the priority ones. Um, so it's a little bit of a broad action, but um, instead of having uh, a whole set of actions that look across the different city codes, we wanted to have kind of an overarching one. Um, the next one does get into a specific piece of city code because we know this is on our war plan. This is um, around expanding those sustainable design standards. So I spoke about this earlier. Um in title 18 we um incorporated in the last update the requirement for a lead certification for buildings of a certain size. That is one green building certification. It is a very expensive certification. We want to open up the opportunity for other buildings to build green um but receive other certifications or points where they can meet the intent but maybe they aren't labeled with um the lead symbol. Um so I'd be working with you all in our planning department to um develop some additional standards to be inerted into code um the missing middle housing in discussing with our planning department. We are proposing removing this. It was incorporated um there was code incorporated into title 18 their state requirements. um they didn't feel like it was a action that was needed in the IAP. Uh we have a couple new ones here that have come out of the committee discussions this summer and further discussed with uh the transportation advisory board. Uh the first one is around moving removing parking minimums um for multifamily buildings that have easy access to transit. Um and then the next one is around um looking at requirements for biking or multi- modal networks for new developments um really to improve access for biking and other um modes of transportation. So these are two kind of development requirements um or policies that would be considered. Um there uh was a action around implementing our mobility plan. We're proposing updating that to change the name. Um and then as we've discussed with you all and some of the other boards and commissions. What we would like to do with this action is really highlight some of the climate benefits of that plan. um and that it will the IAP will retain the importance of these other plans that it's connected to from the by emphasizing the climate lens. Um and we're not losing that connection to these other plans and their importance. Um the next one we're proposing to retain this is promoting commute trip reduction and teleawwork. Um this is the program we do with uh the large employers in the city um to help reduce emissions through uh employee commutes. Um advocating and partnering regionally to improve transit network. We're proposing to retain this, but we received feedback from you all um at our last discussion around transportation that we should expand the description to look at the potential for demand shuttles. Uh bringing back I believe a circular shuttle um exploring free wrership on some routes um which I think Ann you've shared in the past and that's come up through um people for climate action. Um so it would just be kind of an expanded definition of that action and the types of programs we might explore. Um updating land use codes to promote multimodal transportation. We want to retain this but um just emphasize in there the ebike uh the scooter charging I think this one. Do you want to was this requiring in um >> developments to make sure in multi- >> Yes. >> Okay. So this would be I think this actually came up at tab >> in just development projects >> for um with new development projects and particularly multifamily to make we there'd be an added requirement to make sure there's sufficient ebike and e scooter charging not just storage but there'd be a place for residents to charge so that would be a add-on to a building um the transportation management action plans. This one came up in public comment that was proposed to remove. Um I need to double check with our planning manager, but I think that's already incorporated into title 18. Um but I will confirm that and we'll follow up with you all anything there. Um expanding EV infrastructure. The current language says cityowned. Um we're recommending changing that to public EV infrastructure. Um David and I are trying to get out of the business of uh owning and managing EV chargers. Uh we have a few on our plate, but we really want to promote uh kind of public private partnerships so that the city is not spending a lot of our staff time um dealing with maintenance um and management of those chargers. So we want to expand public charging infrastructure, but just look at different models for doing that. um multifamily requirements um or excuse me um the current language in the plan speaks to requirements for EV infrastructure and single family. We are recommending changing that to multifamily and expanding those. Um single family requirements were incorporated into the state building code. There are multifamily charging requirements as well. We are interested in exploring potential increase in the requirements, the percentage of parking spaces that would need to be um EV ready. Um Redmond has done this for their multifamily buildings. They just passed a policy that 100% of parking spaces need to be EV ready. I believe um we discussed that with TAB. They were not opposed to it, but they want to understand if that would have negative consequences where maybe multif family might not want to build here. And I believe we discussed this with you all back in the fall and there were some concerns raised. So, um, we're interested in exploring, do we want to go above the state code and have increased requirements or Belleview is running a program right now to provide technical assistance for multifamily to increase their EV charging. So, just looking at some different options there. Um, promoting state and federal um, EV incentives. We just were recommending removing state and federal just uh not knowing where incentives or reates might go in the future. Uh there are no longer any federal ones. Um and then a new one, I think this is the last one. um would be looking at the potential for any require building requirements to put in solar carports if there was a newer redeveloped parking lot. Um both for the cooling benefit um but then for also potentially some resiliency that could be um incorporated into a project like that. So wanted to just if we'd want to put forward a policy. So that's a lot around kind of multimodal land use and that intersection. So we'll open it up for feedback. Any gaps, major concerns, any of these you really like or >> uh Okay. So one idea is evaluation of escooter um vendors that provide services to our little town such as other larger municipalities like Seattle. Uh I don't know. I I have some trepidation about going in that direction just because our infrastructure for multimodal transportation is up to the mark where it should be and so there will be ill consequences of of flooding our sidewalks and central with these devices. But I think it's something we need to evaluate and maybe uh we could roll it out in a very limited and measured way uh such that it wouldn't cause a big problem. I know one of the things that's being evaluated or maybe acted on in Seattle, I'm not sure where this stands right now, but they are are geo fencing uh some some of the usage so that well you you can't leave that scooter just anywhere. you must leave it in a designated spot or you're going to get a charge to what you do or some such. So those solutions are being worked on and deployed in some municipalities. Um I think this is a thing and we should move in that direction someday. Maybe that day isn't this day, but in the time frame of this plan, it probably will be a thing. And so have a line item for that sort of evaluation. Evaluate the feasibility of we're not we're not ready to say yes, we should do it today. But evaluating the feasibility for future deployment is something that we should think about. And that kind of feeds in with my little comment on the uh one of the metrics that we should be looking at is how many miles of of bike lanes do we have or more generally multimodal transportation corridors in the city of Isiqua. There's there's room for improvement in that area where the squad is not that good in that area in my opinion. And uh we there's a there's an old adage in quality and circle parlance of well if you want to improve something you've got to measure it. All right let's measure how many miles of bike lanes multi mobile transport lanes we have and that will allow us to cause us to think about it enough to oh yeah I guess we should prove that it helps you in that direction anyway. So that was just one thought on the metrics. I guess maybe I need to get plugged better into the metrics committee on that area. You can go down the the list of every action we have and contemplate well how can we measure that? Well, some some can't be measured directly. Some can and some can't and some you have to have a proxy an indirect proxy measurement but you need to give it some thought and try. Um that's all I have. >> One comment just on the e- scooter ebike. Um that is an action in the mobility action plan. So we'll call that out because recognizing that's a priority for climate action. Um there was a pilot program that was proposed to council three two or three years ago. Um >> yeah 22 or 23. and um council decided not to move forward. It's been on our radar to do kind of more assessments and studies to look at a program that council might support very maybe limited pilot. So, we'll make sure to figure out how to highlight that whether it's under um the implement mobility action plan or maybe it deserves a call out. Thanks for raising. >> So, as I think about when the original climate action plan was approved by pounds one of them work. Um I think about how ebikes expand in their use and their sales. I mean, they are a big deal. And so, as I think about as we implement this plan, they're going to get to be bigger and bigger and we don't really say much about >> there's an opportunity here to get ahead of the game instead of kind of responding to the game. And so, I think we and I don't really have an answer of what it is, if that makes sense. But I think we need to call out advice because it is a huge opportunity to solve a problem and that is to get the cars off the road to get people to transit centers to get on the light rail currently trying to do the buses and to get them out of their cars and so I think it's something we need to starting to measure and assess happening with just Tom was talking to me about which is the um systems to get people moving around the community But we know that people are going to continue to purchase those and it may reduce our reliance on cars and therefore create our network. So I think there needs to be a place to talk about that and to begin to assess because there is a great opportunity here to get people to transit centers and to get them to other places. Yes, I was just about this section. There's nothing in the call about light rail. >> Seems like there ought to be some specific action actions for light railing ahead for integration with other transportation modes. all of maybe service the city cities should start studying lessons learned best practices from other locations like trails just seems like that's the biggest thing that's going to happen it's still a ways out but we should start working in a great plan now Um, and we should maybe have an action to try to get it here sooner >> instead of just I don't know, maybe that's all being discussed somewhere else in the city. >> That's a good flag. Yeah, that's also um widely covered in the mobility action plan, but I think that's one of the challenges. We have so many plans that are really working together. But that's something we'll um we will plan to emphasize here. And maybe what we can do is bring you all the language that's in the mobility action plan for particularly these two topics that you've raised and make sure you feel like it's sufficient or is there any add-on that see so yeah those are great great highlights. Uh as far as uh building a bike biking culture goes, I think uh I think in a lot of places I've lived and in Seattle uh where that had a strong uh kind of community of cyclists uh practical reasons commuting and everything. There's been like community uh nonprofit like bike shops and uh at least programs for folks to learn or or you know get the tools and the time and space to to maintain or repair bikes or even just you know get on bikes and uh I think uh we've got a lot of great bike shops in Isl but they're all you know and they're kind of like geared towards uh people with money to to to spend on like on biking things like that. So, I just uh uh I I see the tool library as a potential opportunity for that kind of programming. Um and even if it's not like a brick and mortar type thing, cool to have kind of city sponsored >> uh bicycle program. >> That's a Are you Yeah, we only creating a biking culture is something we've been talking a lot about with our transportation planner. We have it in here more around kind of new development policy, but are you maybe pulling that out as a separate action because that could relate to maybe the city is sponsoring free bike classes with REI or working with a nonprofit to have a chapter established here. infrastructures obviously a huge component but also as far as that cultural piece goes just making sure people have you know that those cultural programs or opportunities to engage. >> Okay. Yeah, maybe we'll think about kind of action we could propose about that. Great. Um, so what I heard, um, when we were just talking about maybe pulling out something around bike culture, going beyond kind of the policies that would help create that, um, we will send you all the language for the mobility action plan around the ebike, escooter, share programs, and light rail and make sure you all think that's sufficient for um, linking to in the climate action plan or do we need something else in here to emphasize boost. Um, and then we also talked about highlighting ebikes and ecooters. We think about how to do that through the actions or maybe there's even envisioning like a call out box in the climate action plan that's just talking about kind of the evolution of ebikes and e scooters and the city needs to be monitoring that and thinking about how to bring in here or maybe there is a specific action we call out. So, we'll play around a bit with some language there. I think those were Yeah. And around the light rail language, we'll just um make sure there's um language there around advocating and looking at pushing up timelines. >> Anything? >> Just another thought picking ahead. Is there any actions to like work with the state um lobby to make changes for like widening state around 900 from all the way through to something where you city would action try to make bigger always they talked about past years ago that failed you've already lost state. >> Yeah, that's a good question. I know. I mean, that's council is very involved in highway 18 and council's been talking about 900 and ways to improve traffic in Isaka. I'll take a look at what's in the ability action plan. I'm guessing it's probably covered there, but we'll pull out that language. >> Just think like back to >> great. Well, it was rather ineffective in terms of improving the throughput on this Hobart road. You know, let's do a bypass. Well, let's not bother doing bypass because it won't help because there's so so many bottlenecks on that two-lane road. And King County is not solving those. It was there was some effort to try to through that and no problem. Well, you know, nothing's going to change unless nothing's going to get through unless I'm no traffic engineer. I always hear about how widening highways and stuff. There's going to be some bottleneck nearby or induced demand or whatever that just counteracts that pretty quickly. So I think if we are making infrastructural adjustments maybe focus multimotal opportunities like bike lanes or bus lanes or those >> I'm just thinking about town I grew up in the US >> when I was a child they came through the state came through and put took a two-lane road completely lightning made it into a freeway and they took off tons of houses by Now all that traffic just smoothly goes through by itself to do that to get get more money out of that state. But uh anyway, big changes take a long time to do and it happens at the state. >> Yeah. Yeah. I know it's a priority for council because whenever we do the community survey, traffic is the number one concern from the community and so council's been having some discussions. So I'll I can >> like even down see there are certain freeways just go through the tunnels through passive try to reduce the hugely expensive but what's it going to look like in 50 years? So just on that subject, um I don't think so it would be great to have buses and bus stops in Maple Valley and black women in that area and to get people on mass transit over to 405 and then they wouldn't be coming on at least not on the local program. So that's an idea that I've had. And then maybe maybe that could happen to get people off of SR 900 as well. I don't know. Just just some thoughts. How can we improve? >> Maybe we need space. Well, great. Thank you for all the great feedback. Um, maybe just real quick as we wrap up that those IAP sections review. Is is this process working for the IAP review? We have one we have two more focus areas to review next meeting and we're planning to kind of bring the action revisions to you in a similar way. Just want to see if that is working for you all. You feel like it's a decent way to provide feedback. >> I think so. I mean there's been great discussion around. >> Okay. Been great for us. Um so yes, next meeting we will look at um small topics uh natural systems and water resources and community resilience and well-being including kind of a new structure to that section. Uh so we may have a bit of a long meeting uh next meeting because we're also planning to bring in greenhouse gas inventory and a little bit of overview of emergency management to feed into that community resilience discussion. Um, and then we anticipate that'll kind of wrap up the deep dive into the focus areas and then we're looking at probably a special meeting in March and then possibly a special meeting in April to uh look overall at the climate plan revisions and hopefully get to your recommendation to move it forward to council in April. For me, it was fun breaking up that first and >> great. Yeah, we can look at if that structure would be beneficial for that final. Right. And then we have a few reports and other updates that All right. Um, first uh thing I just wanted to know is I believe this Friday board and commission applications will open for the environmental board. We have one youth position opening, one regular position, and three alternates. Um, I've reached out to folks whose positions are ending. Encourage you all to reapply. Um, but uh, we will send out that information to the full board. reach out to your networks, folks you think would be a good fit to bring on to the board. Um, and then any questions on that? Uh, and then in good news, I'll let David first share about our breaking news at five o'clock. Yeah, as of a couple hours ago, we just received news that we are getting a large grant from Fiji Found Energy to um electrify the community center at uh transition from natural gas to uh electric heat pumps at the facility um which will also have the added benefit of um allowing cooling in the facility as well. Um so so that is one of our resilience subsites. Um it's a priority uh site for us to uh upgrade infrastructure electrifying uses about 10% of our natural gas use um from city operations. So all of that will be addressed through this project. Um so yes we got um about a little over twothirds of the projects is going to be funded from the PSC. >> Way to go >> city funds the expectation and then maybe additional funds from PSC if that can >> we'll see. Are you looking at batteries at all? >> Next step will be to look at to take another look at solar and potential batteries that would go with that project. Um it would probably be a phase two. Um as we as you plan you're thinking ahead, >> correct? We are just actually asked the state for uh funds through an allocation that would allow us to uh re-evaluate the feasibility and potentially develop designs for a solar uh system at the facility that could also be connected to a future battery similar to the micro grid project going into center. >> I was just asking that since the senior center's not very big and power goes out center has much more opportunity I wasn't going to bring this up on focused feedback for the energy infrastructure stuff, but has anybody heard of like the gravity uh water pumping water up as an energy storage feature? And then I don't know, we have water at the end. So, we've had some of those conversations with our uh water manager, Gabby. She's she's fantastic. And that is something that we are interested in evaluating whether or not some of that technology could work within our water system. Um within our um capital improvement plan, there are some projects coming up where um in the next medium term maybe um where those projects could potentially be incorporated into into some of those projects. So that goes to some of that action language related to broadening from just solar to more renewable energy since that could then incorporate water based renewable energy wind based or or any other options. >> Yeah. Cool. >> Some really cool stuff out there for that. So >> um great and then uh two other quick grant updates. both PSSE, I believe I may have shared at the last meeting, we also received a grant from PSSE for our ebike rebate. We'll be doing that in partnership with Belleview and Redmond. Uh that would have just come in um at that last meeting. Uh and then the state will also be really re-releasing second round of Ebike rebates in the spring. So, we'll be coordinating with the state. ours will likely be released after theirs, but there'll be a lot of fee rebates out for the community um this spring. Um and then we also received a PSSE grant in partnership with the school district to do design work for shared fast charging and solar and battery backup at the Isqua School District administrative building. Um that would be charging that could be shared between district fleet um potential electric buses in the future and then for city kind of emergency needs like for police or um other public works trucks as we electrify them if they need a quick charge um via shared location. So that funding is just for the design work and to develop strategy. So, we have been very busy this year with our grants. Way to go. Um, couple other quick updates. As you all may know, um, Zach Hall resigned from council to focus on his work at the state level. Uh, so the council is going through an appointment process right now. On Monday, they narrowed it from 12 applicants down through four. Um, and I believe the next series of questions and presentations, it's on the 20th of this month and they're hoping to make it. Um, and then legislature is in full swing. Um, we've already been looking at bills. Just a couple, one of the flag that we reviewed last week is one proposed actually by um, Senator Hunt on residential battery incentives. really interesting one. Um I believe that one came in last year but didn't move forward. Um a plastic bag ban I wanted to bring up because John uh recommended that when we were looking at the IAP actions last month um looking at a full plastic bag ban instead of allowing the reusable plastic bags. That is the state legislature for consideration this year. Um and the city I should mention the city spoke or um submitted signed in in support of that as well as the residential battery incentives. Um and then there's been some other police related thing on that been um supporting. Um and then yep already mentioned our anticipated topics for February and yeah just as a heads up we may go a little bit long and folks um can just plan on that. We just want to make sure we have sufficient time to cover those very timely topics. And Karen, did you have any youth updates? Okay, >> there's another billion look at the number with me, but it's related to 6 PPD and fire fees 1935 I believe it is. >> Okay. >> To try to offset the damage, >> there's a bill uh proposing a ban that Hall is sponsored for too. Okay. So, there might there's >> Okay, >> that sounds great. Um, yeah, we haven't seen that one come in for you, but I know Hall's been looking on for and requiring alternatives. Yeah, >> other Thanks, Alex. Any question? >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> That is the new era.