good evening ladies gentlemen it's seven
o'clock so we're going to get started
like to welcome the members of the
public here and appreciate it we're
gonna have a public hearing on the
revision to the Issaquah middle school
land use permit and also a second agenda
item is a follow-up discussion on the
roof' form of gilman lofts so I would
request if we we don't have a sign-in
it's being passed around okay if you
wish to speak we've got a sign-in sheet
would like you to fill that in and with
your name and address and your social
security number we won't sell back you
know we don't want your social security
numbers though so we do have some order
of business of approving some minutes in
a second so I hope some of the
commissioners have had a chance to read
those and would like to hear a
recommendation if anybody has summer I
move mr. cherry move approval of the May
second 2018 meeting minutes okay second
motion has been made and seconded is
there any discussion Corrections okay
all those in favor of approving the
minutes please say aye I host so I'd
like to introduce Nishita who is our
newest development commission member
who's here we have two other new members
they were unable to attend tonight so
so good evening Development Commission
in public I'm Lucie sloman land
development manager for development
Services Department our first order of
business is the Issaquah middle school
sports field lighting revision it is a
quasi-judicial matter for which we have
done a public hearing notice and so I'm
going to go through our standard
quasi-judicial process which I'm sure
many of you are familiar with so a
quasi-judicial permit is treated we
review it as if we're in a court and the
proceedings have to be both fair and
appear fair what that means is that we
follow procedural due process and
substantive due process procedural due
process means that we give certain kinds
of notice and we follow a certain method
to make it clear and fair and we also
focus on the decision-makers
relationship to the applicant
substantive due process means that we
base the decision on adopted regulations
so the first piece of this is I will
have you read through the questions and
then I will ask you some questions are
about your answers to these questions
anyone how many people answer no to all
the questions anyone answered yes to any
of the questions ok great and then ex
parte communications means that all of
our discussions of this matter happen on
the record and in public and so my
question for you is has anyone discussed
or communicated about this permit
outside of these proceedings
no thank you does the applicant have any
challenge of any of the commissioners
okay so tonight we're going to talk
about the sports field lighting we had a
meeting just about two months ago to
have our initial conversation we've come
back with additional material and
information that we have gathered as did
the applicant and we have provided that
to you in a memo ahead of time I also
want to introduce another person who's
here this evening which is Denise Fong
she is the city's lighting consultant
and we asked her to attend in case there
were technical questions that the
Commission had so our purpose is to
allow for Commission and public
discussion as many of you know the is
Quan Middle School's master site plan
and site development permit were
approved in 2015 but this revision was
not shown in the drawings although it
was shown in the CEPA checklist I'll go
into this in a little more detail in a
moment but with we really wanted to
ensure that there was an opportunity for
public conversation before the revision
decision was made and this is going to
be a commission decision this could have
been an administrative decision because
it's a rather minor amendment but
because nothing was shown in the
original permits we wanted to ensure
that there was an opportunity for public
conversation and that's why
bringing it to the Commission who will
be the decision maker and decide if
there are any additional conditions
beyond those that were originally
imposed in 2015 so just to orient people
the sports field is here on the north
side is Evans Street on the west side is
2nd Avenue and this is the new
middle school building the high school
is further to the south
oh I see what happened
sorry land use and zoning maps are not
really relevant to this decision but I
use this just to show what some of the
uses are in the surrounding areas I
imagine we have neighbors here this
evening we had neighbors here last time
I think it's important to recognize
where some of these nearby residential
uses are to the west on the other side
of the Rainier trail is multi-family
housing north of the site is some
single-family residential zoning and
homes also there is open space to the
east so the background we go through
this just because we know that there are
have been some questions about whether
sufficient SEPA review has taken place
so a CIPA checklist was submitted with
the original permit in the light and
glare portion of the sefa checklist
which is where an applicant declares
what kinds of impacts a project might
have they mentioned that there might be
there might be sports field lighting and
that Seba checklist was included as part
of the original staff report the MD
thank you for letting me know no I the
whole point is that people can hear so
thank you no good that was a good
interruption thank you
is that better so the decision on the
State Environmental Policy Act or SEPA
checklist is called well that there's
various kinds of decisions that can be
issued and one of them is a mitigated
decision of non significance which
basically means that with conditions it
does not have significant impacts and
that's what was issued in this case and
it was published in the newspaper as
required the sports fields were
mentioned the lighting was not mentioned
in the appeal period for that has closed
many years ago the drawings and staff
report for the review by the Commission
and Council did not include anything
about the lighting and in fact at that
time the applicant had said that there
was not going to be lighting but they
did a thorough review because there was
other lighting not sports field lining
but site lighting that they reviewed and
the permits were approved on May 18 2015
the site work permits for the middle
school were issued in two phases and the
second one was approved last August in
mid-january the city learned that spoil
sports field lighting was planned and
the school districts submitted a
revision to include the lighting while
we were kind of deciding what process
was necessary because the lighting had
not been previously shown the school
district poured the basis and installed
the lights at which time we issued a
stop work permit the day that they were
putting the lights in and I just note
that sports field lighting is an allowed
activity in the Municipal Code
so that's my introduction I'm now going
to go through the sort of topics that
are covered in the briefing response
memo these the questions concerns and
comments that were raised at the first
meeting and in letters that we received
from the public were consolidated into
topics and so that that's the way the
presentation is also organized so there
was a question about whether there were
any limits on the hours of use and no
limits were proposed however the city
limits the hours which lighted fields
they have a cut-off time for City fields
and City activities and so staff
proposed to use that same set of hours
in this situation there was also a
question about whether the school
district needed special event permits to
use the fields special events permits
are required when there's some kind of
extraordinary event and we don't
consider the games at the middle school
field extraordinary and by way of
example the high school never has to get
a special use permit for their games so
in conclusion we are proposing to set a
curfew of 10:00 p.m.
third question had to do with lighting
impacts there were complaints about how
much the lights already even before the
sports field lights were turned on how
much the lights from the school
buildings impacted neighbors there were
comments about how many trees have been
removed as part of the construction and
that there therefore were fewer of them
to screen the site there were concerns
that new the new technology that has
been proposed for the sports field
lighting would not be sufficient to
alleviate the impacts and there were
questions about how much the grades of
the surrounding houses might impact them
so this is a multi slide response so as
I mentioned all of the
that sports field lighting is an allowed
activity however in the first sim it'll
that we receive from the school district
this the materials we got did not meet
all the requirements of either the
Municipal Code section of 7 107 or the
conditions that were placed on the
permit so we have already sent it out
for Corrections and asked the school
district not to resubmit until we've
completed this process we also in
speaking with our lighting consultant
she had recommended that we not only you
know do all of our normal work in
reviewing the permits but that once the
lights are turned on that we actually go
out and measure the lights to ensure
that the lighting levels that are
allowed are actually that the lights are
performing as expected in trying to
better understand the lights and where
they could be seen from I went and drove
around the neighborhood what these
screen captures show is wherever there's
a blue dot is some of the places I
stopped so I tried to get to the
easternmost edge of each of the housing
along here I could not see any of the
sports lights from there now it may be
that either because the trees are leaked
out or from the actual units you might
see the sports lights but no one invited
me and so I had to evaluate it from my
car
then I visited three different sites
around the high school or the middle
school one was at 4th and Evans the
second one I walked along the sort of
interior walkway and took some
additional photos at the number two and
then I also at 3 along 2nd Avenue was
the other spot that I am providing
photos of so when I'm standing at this
intersection the lights are visible
the circles indicate where
the four lights would be as I walk down
the road or it's not really a road but a
pathway as I was standing at the top of
these stairs I could see the easternmost
building of the Windsong apartments
which you can see on the map up here and
then when you're down at second Avenue
you can see that the lights are quite
close to the roadway so I also looked at
the topography of the area so the
numbers that appear on this map are the
elevations of the land so this is
obviously before any of the construction
took place but in looking at the
construction drawings the sports field
will be at 165 elevation 165 the
neighborhood to the north is ranges from
170 to 180 along this edge and goes up a
little bit as you move north the area to
the west is much further down at a
hundred and twenty elevation so when
you're at these various locations so
when I was for instance standing at 170
this is the way the lights appear and
you can see that not much of the bulb is
visible however standing down here both
because it's lower and because I'm right
I think even more because I'm right
underneath them the bulbs are very
visible and I just include this photo
from the manufacturers website because
it gives a better image that they have
installed what the configuration of that
is so the homes to the west are most
susceptible to seeing the bulbs that's
that's where the brightest impact would
come from if you can see the bulbs so
it's both a factor of elevation vertical
elevation and horizontal distance the
further the higher you are and/or the
further you are the less likely you are
to see
the bulbs I did discuss with our
lighting consultant weather shortening
the poles would improve things and she
said actually not that as you shorten
the poles you have to actually turn the
shields up to get the light has to be
more horizontal to light the field so
that by being taller it keeps the light
much more restricted and you're less
likely to see the bulbs from off site it
is important to say that when I was out
there as I mentioned a moment ago and in
these pictures the trees are mostly
leaved out and we certainly have heard
reports from homeowners in the area that
light is seeping through the leaves at
all times of the year so the two sort of
conclusions that we had one was that we
want to add an inspection condition that
we would go out and measure the lights
the second condition which is a new one
and is provided on your motion sheet is
to inspect the lights to ensure that
because the bulbs bulbs are more visible
when you're down on Second Avenue that
it would not be a hazard for drivers
because the bulbs are visible so you
can't we'll look at that language in a
minute there were concerns about off
site impacts this is question number
four about traffic and parking and
enforcement and cut through drivers an
amplified sound all the streets in the
neighborhood to the north are public
streets which means they are available
for anyone to use in a legal way but if
people are driving in an unsafe manner
or parking illegally within city streets
the Squa police department is the entity
that would be able to enforce that
however some of the streets for instance
Evans east of the are in front of and
east towards the Gun Club
is a private street owned by the school
district as well as parking within the
middle school site and that would be the
responsibility of the school district to
enforce illegal parking or unsafe
driving on-site parking
exceeds the requirements and should be
available at night since school is not
in session
and the school district has said there
won't be any amplified sound the CEPA
questions there was concerns as I
mentioned that we should get to zero
impacts that impacts were not studied
sufficiently the school district is its
own lead agency staff had an opportunity
to review the decision the person the
staff member who did that work is no
longer working at the city of is quoi
Mike Brennan stole him away and so we're
not able to ascertain what he you know
what he reviewed and in what way he
reviewed it but the appeal period is
closed and there haven't been any
changes that are inconsistent with what
was shown in the checklist and so our
suspicion is that if if the existing
code addresses the impacts then
additional conditions are not typically
applied and so that was part of why we
were asked to check in with the city
attorney to confirm that approach and
that was he concurred with that approach
that were using there were many
questions about construction permits
whether structural review whether we're
doing a lighting peer review whether
more trees were going to be removed and
whether the fact that this was the
school district impacted the way we
reviewed the permits we have not
structurally reviewed the lights yet
we are going to have to have special
inspections we have been discussing what
those would be to determine that once we
agree that the structural bases are
designed correctly some kind of special
review to determine that the
construction actually complies with it
will be necessary we do not know have
any trees that would additional trees
that would be removed the trees they've
already built most of the site work
permit and so all the trees that were
necessary to be removed have been
removed
Denise Fong will be our peer reviewer
she's already looked at the first middle
and will continue to review and she has
provided comments already and we do
review all permits in the same manner
one of I believe it was the Commission's
questions had to do with how various
fields who uses them what hours what
kind of sports and the parks department
was kind enough to assemble that
information and provide it to us this is
the same material you had in your packet
so and that was provided to the public
there were a lot of comments about unmet
obligations related to the permits and I
think the short answer is they are still
building improvements we have not given
them a we have not inspected and said
all the work is done and that will I
imagine come and come this summer this
some time and at that time we will
ensure that they match the permits that
were issued you saw this map last time
but I just brought it back in because I
think it may be a helpful part of our
discussion it was also included in your
packet and the conditions that we
proposed what we did was take the
conditions that were approved in
2015 and propose edits to them mostly
what we're striking out is things that
don't make sense anymore because certain
all the rest of the permits have been
issued and then we've added conditions
based on the kinds of things that we've
discussed tonight ours inspections and
those kinds of things that we've
discussed so that concludes my
presentation unless you have any
questions before the applicant makes his
presentation make questions
commissioners okay we will we will be
opening this up for public comment but
we'll let the applicant speak first and
then after he speaks we'll open this up
for public comment and then we'll have
some discussion amongst the
commissioners Thank You Lucy evening
Steve Crawford director of capital
projects for this law school district
middle schools do have accurate
extracurricular activities and events
they have particularly heavy
participation in track and field events
and we do use lighting at to help extend
the usable hours events at middle
schools are not heavily attended events
there aren't large football games and
large audiences there's a minimal amount
of seating on the east side of the
football field track area Oh speak up a
little bit better
not true yes and there will be no
amplified sound system provided as a
part of this project and the the the
potential of lighting the field was
included in the CEPA we did address the
potential for spill we particularly
noted the potential for spill on to the
church to the north on the other side of
evans we did address the fact that we
would be stalling the latest additions
of LED lights we had similar
installation at Skyline High School that
went in before this process we were
quite confident that the new
technologies reduce the ambient glare
and spill onto adjacent properties
significantly from what has been seen in
field lighting in the halogen and sodium
type lighting in the past the community
as a whole does look to the school
district to help supplement the city
parks facilities and while the CEPA
addressed the potential for lighting of
the field it was not included in the
original construction process it wasn't
funded at that time later voter-approved
funding provided funding to provide
lighting at all of our middle school
fields and so we had a later date
decided to move forward with that in the
permitting process there was a over
zealous contractor who moved forward
before he should have we admit to that
and that's an unfortunate situation that
has been discussed but that was not an
intentional event but they got ahead of
themselves permit had been submitted but
it had not been approved on the screen
you can see a photometric map of the
glare and the field is the area that is
most intensely lit you can see that
as the lighting intensity falls off down
to the green areas through the yellow
that there is spill on to adjacent
school properties on the north side
there is some spill on Evans that
doesn't cross the right away and to the
west there's some spill that goes on to
portions of 2nd Avenue and then onto a
little bit of the transportation Center
School District property to the west I
do have some photos from skyline can we
stick those on to the system on a stick
yeah
[Music]
yep
there we go so these are some pictures
that were taken at Skyline actually last
night and the skyline uses the same
lighting technology as is planned and
has been proposed for the middle school
fields what this was taken shortly
before 10:00 p.m. what you can see is
that there is a high level of focus of
lighting on the field level itself the
playing field even as you cross the
track you start to see a significant
dimming of the spill and it reduces as
it is supposed to because the lighting
is focused on the field area a view from
the south end again you can see that the
playing surface is pretty well lit and
it starts darkening as you move away
from that even on the grandstands on the
old home side you can see that there's a
little bit of lighting that reaches the
lower level and the upper portion starts
to get really dim when we put the new
lighting in we had to go back and add
lighting on the open grandstand area
because there was not enough spill
lighting there to safely walk up and
down the steps in the grandstand this is
a view from the north side on the side
again the field area is pretty heavily
lit by the time you get to the back of
what was the stadium seating which isn't
very far away lighting levels pretty low
you can see that the lighting on 228 is
again much more intense and much
brighter than what you see from the
field area kind of a view of you from
the Northeast again high level of
lighting for the playing field surface
and by the time you move fairly far away
it's getting pretty dim so I think
that's a confirmation of the lighting
layer map that you see
and pretty well illustrates that the
ground-level glare is pretty well
contained far better than it used to be
with the old-style lighting systems and
we can go back to your slideshow anytime
you want do you want that one right yeah
and we can stay there so we do provide
fields and help to supplement
recreational facilities throughout the
community our fields are set up the
lights at skyline go off at 10:00 p.m.
it was actually about 10 o 3 last night
and they're there on a timer they go off
by themselves there's nobody that has to
be around to switch them off and that
provides for more than adequate use for
our school uses as well as provides the
ability for the community to have the
ability to utilize fields you'd be happy
to answer any questions but I think that
excuse me yes we'll be offering the
opportunity for the public to make
comment and then we'll be able to get
some and maybe get some answers that way
thank you
so if you would like to make a public
comment we've encouraged you to sign in
we'll keep track of that and I can call
you off in order I hope you indicated
with whether this was just comments for
the lighting or so a deal Azadi listened
sorry obviously one phone yeah tell us
your name and your address and then
we'll listen can you hear me okay no
okay what can you hear me now
better okay Kathleen Liz lot address
three eight zero southeast R Street
so Josh Street is in between dar Street
and the fields is the Episcopal Church
and the Episcopal Church had a in the
last eight days they've had six logging
trucks take out all of those trees
because they have an approved parking
lot going in so I now look directly
across through the parking right into
where the sports fields are and the
lights and I think that that's going to
cause a real problem not only from
myself and the amount of glare that's
going to be on from my house down to
about well at least six houses will have
a direct light I mean directly view of
the field but then we'll also have the
adjusted traffic in that area and I know
that traffic was brought up here before
and I know this isn't about the traffic
right but I've lived in that house for
25 years we've asked for traffic
adjustments many many times and have
never gotten them so that circular
driveway with all the extra attention
and games that will be there or we
assume will be there there's going to be
even more traffic issues and I for one
would like to at least see speed bumps
stop sign more police activity something
and then I guess my last point would
just be personally I think 10 o'clock is
a little late for that neighborhood I
would rather have a time frame of 9
o'clock so I know that that would mean
starting games earlier but it would help
our neighborhood it's a very small
neighborhood and we'd like to kind of
keep it that way thank you thank you
Richard Denby
Richard Denby I live at 420 southeast
stars right next to Kate and we have a
direct line of sight to those lights and
when they were put in the reason I
brought up the idea or comment if you
lit Issaquah high school football field
is because with the lights that you have
shown us at at skyline are a high school
and they have football games that go on
and when Issaquah high school has
football game they double triple Park in
our front driveway just for the football
field already at Issaquah high school by
putting in a sports facility that's lit
until 10 o'clock at night we have an
ongoing huge problem with the idea of
parking and noise of people that are
coming into our neighborhoods to look
for a place to park there is not
adequate parking that's already at the
site now and at the conclusion of the
idea that they're gonna Park at the high
school will only take place is when they
filled up every single available street
spot in front of our homes I have the
police on my speed dial right now and
call them at least once a week about
high school parking right now and those
are people that go to the high school so
the idea that we would have until a 10
o'clock at night sports games with with
lights and I heard that there was going
to be no noise or the noise was gonna be
kept at a minimum I have a real problem
believing that that was going to be the
case
we have trash garbage parking rowdy
people people that that are not from
from our area parking in our front yards
and these are strangers that we don't
know that are coming to a field that is
for a middle school it's not a high
school football field it's a middle
school and so and key I get up at five
o'clock every single morning to go drive
a school bus the idea that that this
would be available until 10 o'clock at
night is really it almost is completely
unconceivable to me living across the
street on Darce street so those are my
main objectives and since the church did
clear out all of those trees that has a
exposed directly to our line of sight
these all these lights so those are my
main objections and mostly like I said I
called the police all the time about the
existing traffic right now they can't
control it the school will not control
it even though you've done the research
and said that the school itself is
supposed to be in charge of policing
their own street their own private
street whatever it is they don't do it
they won't do it so that leaves it all
up to us I pick up garbage every day I
can't even imagine what will happen when
this is lit up until at 10 o'clock at
night thank you Lynne Davis
hi I'm Lynn Davis I live at 420
southeast Evans Lane I'm not a good
public speaker so bear with me my jumbo
one question I had was in your
presentation was about the SEPA
checklist report has that been revisited
since all the trees have been removed
from the church of the impact of the
lighting and so forth
so um is Davis what happens is you speak
you can you're welcome to ask questions
okay we don't answer them right the
Commission
sorry the Commission can ask me to
answer it later on okay got it okay
so sorry there's no point in my list
here okay
this December will be 20 years that
we've lived in the same home I have four
amazing children that went through this
qual School District I love this
district but now it's hitting really
really close to home and as a date this
is really emotional for me sorry as of
what dick is when explained I don't know
why I'm being so emotional the impact of
the people with the school in the
beginning a few like five years or so it
wasn't that big a deal at all we would
have a few a little bit of impact of the
garbage yeah lots of students and so
forth well my children are going through
I was very easygoing yeah yeah they got
a park somewhere
yeah the crowds gonna be somewhere but
it has gotten way worse and so my
concern with the lighting is I'm so
stupid I'm sorry
okay my concern of opening this more to
the community to the public inviting
people that aren't in our community to
come and participate in my neighborhood
it'll just get worse you just caught it
just constantly just keeps changing when
the school parking lot was built up
above the high school parking lot that
is now gone from the middle because of
the middle school well we were told that
that gate would only be opened for
emergency and keep your word started
opening in I have a racetrack in front
of my house every morning every day in
the afternoon when the kids get out and
when there's events like games and stuff
you know you got your winners you're
happy you're excited it's gonna be loud
they're gonna be you know happy they won
so forth
the 50-50 and so anyway I just see this
would be my bedroom window is impacted
I'm a touch closer than Kate and dick
and I also agree with Kate about the ten
o'clock I think it's too late we would
not be able to come to sleep with events
getting out at 10 o'clock it just
wouldn't happen I am a light sleeper
what else do I want to tell you oh you
said about this sound that there would
not be any loud speakers well that's not
accounting for the crowds cheering less
than half a block from my house any
bands playing musical instruments
fireworks
it would not be quiet what else we can
already see the lights and I am not
impacted I'm not I'm not saying it all
but we can already see the lights from
the high school and but and we do hear
the noise from the high school when that
field is in use so if the
and you say that the middle school
crowds aren't as large in Issaquah I'd
like to say they are we are a great
community of supporting our families and
our kids and theirs when my kids were in
middle school doing track and so forth
there was a ton of parents there I mean
it's granted it's not football league
but there are a lot of people that come
to support their children in this
community and again on the in helping
with our little community of the parking
or the road in changes bowl downtown has
gotten there's gotten some changes to
help them alleviate their issue we had
nothing nothing changed or any
suggestions to help us oh and then
another little thing on the road is now
I have school buses they come through
cut through our neighborhood in the
afternoons and will actually sit with
their motors running right there at the
corner two to three deep waiting until
it's their turn to go up into the middle
school I think 9 o'clock oh and then
another question had was um as far as
rentals for other games and so forth
those crowds will be large my son played
lacrosse all since 5th grade all the way
through those are large good-sized
crowds for those games and I know
they're always hurting for field so I
believe the rentals will bring in larger
areas of people and they will look for
closer parking
I'm the worst candidate for hey if I can
park closer I'm going to do it I have a
lot more sympathy now for the
neighborhoods that I have done that
myself with it Mercer Island Bellevue
it's so forth in attending games so it
will impact a stronger in many ways and
his dick said to the garbage we pick up
garbage every day from fast-food lunches
of the kids dump
- sexual aids you name it it is all over
the place
so thank you thank you Mary Lynch
Mary closed the file up in oh yeah and
then it should pop up
here comes I think took a while to read
I was not able because of other
commitments to get pictures of the clear
cut but I just want to reiterate what's
already been said with the church those
trees though basically the old only
shielding that they have and that on
that side have been cut and removed but
I do want to show you some pictures that
I was able to get earlier this is before
the tree cutting was done so most of
these trees basically from here over to
here have been removed and so this is
looking in the community that the some
of the people are talking to tonight
this is from second Street before the
leaves came out walking along second
this is down on the trail which is
supposed to be somewhat of a nice trail
so this would be what the people on
Front Street are looking at out there
back windows up at these lights and you
can clearly see the lights there they're
not shielded by trees because they're
down so far most a lot of these trees
don't have leaves there's another view
from another walking along the trail
clearly visible not only these lights
but the street lights from down there
and just give you a couple I was out
there three different days and every day
there were cars parked illegally and as
Richard said I have not seen a police
officer out there wants ticketing the
cars and this is every day that they've
had to put up with it the sound the
other thing I would like to have a
definition of what amplified sound is
because nowadays they don't have to be
on a big box a little speaker
hand-carried and most your sports games
at an area new mission before warmups
they have on loud loud songs not just
for the high school this is even the
Little League games they bring their
aims to rev them up and these are big
speakers or big volume speakers big DB
with little speakers so I'd like to know
what amplified sound is and what is your
DB level that you're going with that for
events I would like to see a condition
put on for non school events that there
needs to be a special event just like
there does at a park or anyplace else
because they can go on at all hours they
can have all sorts of crowds and who
knows what else so I would like to see
any school non-event also because it's
probably going to be a city oriented the
other thing you need to understand when
it comes to parking this school draws
students from Newcastle from Bellevue
and some even from Grand Ridge at times
so you've got when they have a sports
event over there or a track meet or
something like that you have parents
from all over the school district
bringing their cars and buses cannot get
into those the later eda buses cannot
get into the school as many times
because of the parking and they don't
just park in the parking areas they park
in the fire lanes they park in the
entrances they park everywhere they can
and they get out of their cars and they
run to see the game and so it is
atrocious and then getting out they all
want to exit at the same time and so
when you're talking this neighborhood
all these entrances and exits to it the
kids and if you're if you haven't been
over there in that area at the end of
school now is a little bit not going to
be quite as good because a lot of the
seniors are not driving but just go over
there at the end of school one day and
try and move yesterday when I was coming
home I looked up the street and there
was an emergency vehicle trying to get
down sunset to come down sunset to turn
on second I was able to come all the way
to finish my distance down second or
down a sunset turn and come down almost
even with the school before the
emergency vehicle was even able to get
to me because of the traffic and they
couldn't get through so that's the other
thing that my concern is with these big
large events at the
and hold if there's one going on at the
same time at the high school what's
going to happen with emergencies and the
noise and that the gate I'll just
validate that I've never seen the gate
locked except after hours when no one is
there that's the only time I've seen
that back gate locked if for some reason
this goes forward Bellevue has been very
good with lighting and the street lights
to put shields up on the back side of
the lights so that it does not really go
over into the neighborhoods as badly as
it could and I don't see anything in
this where it talks about covering the
back side of the light bulbs that would
even further limit the amount of light
going out but that would be another
condition that I'd like to have and
going forward because Lucy said it
wasn't the CEPA if you go back and look
at the staff report and what the
community even though we made public
comment about our concerns
it really wasn't documented in the notes
but staff said this was not going
forward so they didn't consider it and I
would say going forward on any such
thing that the school does we need to
have some very clear documentation on
what the public has said we need to
review the CEPA and not only look at
what is proposed but we need to clearly
look at the plot plan and say how high
can the building be for that plot plan
how can what other uses can be had on
this property and put those limitations
on going forward knowing that now what
Lucy says is we don't have time to
reopen the CEPA so the CEPA and the
initial review of this needs to clearly
document the public process comments and
put the stipulations on what can be done
on this in the future so the public and
those that are buying homes around it
knows what's going to impact them Thank
You Jenny Bingham
I'm Jenny Bingham and I live in old town
375 southeast Andrew Street
come on city of his ha come on school
district when are you gonna work
together I didn't know I retired from
this cloth school district and I never
knew until I went to a meeting I believe
it was the beginning of this year that
the school district and the city of
Issaquah had their very first meeting as
appalled this is a community they want
schools for kids and parents the city
wants everything for the community but
why is one working against the other why
is there no truth in between that is
public for everyone to know one thing
turn the lights on now let us all know
the lights are going on at a certain
time let us come up and look at it and
make our own determination I'm glad
there is a lighting person here she can
determine it but I think we as citizens
especially in Old Town here need to see
the lighting period make a date turn it
on obviously they're working turn it on
so we can determine what we see so we
can have more input next is the traffic
as you know we have worked for years
I've lived in Issaquah for 40 years and
I've lived in Old Town for 40 years and
the amount of traffic on our side roads
on Andrew Street which is the first
Street off of sunset and then we have
bush as you know we're going through a
traffic pilot program now and supposedly
there are 200 cars a day going through
our neighborhood either east or west
depending on the day even with pilot
traffic program
now we're gonna have the new Dollar Tree
store which will bring more people down
off our side streets you've covered the
no left-hand turn lanes both on 2nd and
Andrews invitation to just come on
through and now we got another facility
that would be rented out it'll be rented
out to people that aren't even community
living people you think these people
really think it's wrong not to park by
her house there's no signs that say no
parking there is no police patrol we
tried police patrol when the signs were
up for no left-hand turns are you
kidding for 25 years we've been told
there's only one traffic policeman and
it certainly isn't for old town and now
you wanna put more people in this area
coming and going down our little streets
2nd Avenue can't take it I can't take a
right-hand turn out of Andrews because
nobody will let you in and when I come
home to take a left nobody will let me
turn down and it doesn't matter what
time of day it is
of course it's worse in the morning and
it's worth in the afternoon but until
this city can get better infrastructure
more streets a plan of where people are
going to park whether it's school
district kids whether it's teachers I
don't care who it is it is not gonna
work up there you can already see in the
middle of a day there and we even have
out-of-town people on Andrew Street now
because there's no parking down here and
I've talked to Mary Lou about this
you've got people taking the five five
four right here song get off the bus
tonight and walk to their cars right
here parking right in front of your well
they're now parking on Andrew Street
because there's no place down here so
they've got the problem it's gonna get
worse it's gonna get worse it's gonna
get worse come on City School District
work together please thank you use Mansa
okay dad I don't work you need to work
on your arse in here so I'm sorry sorry
I had to run from the elementary school
I had to go to a concert there so it's
okay and the double duty - I apologize
James Marsh 500 southeast sevens Lane
this is Evans link right here again I
think I think predominantly what you're
hearing is a little bit about the
lighting which kind of probably was the
800-pound gorilla that got us all going
here it's it's truly the impacts of
what's going on we've predicted this
three years ago when they tore down
Clark I gave public comment at that time
saying they're gonna build a sporting
complex and it's gonna impact this
beyond what this neighborhoods ready for
and it has doubled what I imagined what
was gonna go on on that in the
neighborhood truth to everybody that's
expressed the traffic the garbage the
speeding is literally ruined a quiet
little cul-de-sac dar streets kind of
quiet the churches there now yes the
population is heading out here it's
evident what the church is growing
because they're taking their trees down
building a bigger parking lot the school
district can barely keep up with the
kids they're adding portables already to
the junior high which is surprising some
poor forecasting on their part
poor forecasting on the parking you
wouldn't know how many parking permits
you would give out to the students to
park at the school they knew this before
they tore down the overflow parking lot
which they never replaced they decided
to build an another softball field again
this these fields aren't even open yet
and the impacts huge to the neighbors i
its we live this every day it's that
that's pretty mild right there and these
kids they're they're fast
my kids are four and five I don't let
him out on the streets there's no
sidewalks the other side of the school
district you guys did a really good job
building your part of the property but
boy you never extend it out to the other
side of the street no sidewalks I
actually have a video on my phone one
night a softball game came out up on the
upper field which I don't want to get
into Evan Street the condition that that
was left after construction but not one
person stopped at that stop sign and I
have the video and I stopped I stayed in
the crosswalk and they just like I
didn't even exist and if that was my
kids I'd be livid and I am most of these
days I come home if I get home early I
set my little slow sign out and I watch
these kids I have to slow them down tell
them to pick up the trash so I think
what we're talking about here is the
impact of what the school district has
created on the neighborhood the direct
neighborhood I know the church thing is
new to all of us
- and the logging trucks showed up and
took out you know 50 50 healthy trees
that were well over a hundred feet high
yes we'd like to see the lights on to
see what its gonna do we'd like to see
what the schedule is you know I know for
the majority of everybody that lives
here in Issaquah what our taxes went up
for McCleary decision you know that's
directly to the school district so your
stewards of our money these impacts
though I think I think what were what
you're hearing here is this Commission
or the city has to help us out and the
school district has a responsibility on
here to lessen these impacts all the way
around
from the parking to the upgrades on the
other side of the street if some
standard operating procedures on the
lights how the fields are ran
it is extension of the parks it's not
just the junior high there will be games
going on hopefully you make some money
back however that works I don't know but
the school district has to do another
analysis on their parking they can't
provide with what they have right now
for their own staff and there's students
how are they going to provide for extra
people going to sporting events our
neighbors showed a lot of great emotion
it's because it it's gotten to that
point where our quiet little Street is
now a racetrack and you know and I know
this is citywide Newport doesn't look
any better at 4:30 going out is to call
Bart it's a travesty if you live out
there don't plan dinner and it's it's a
general impact of what's going on here
you can see it off i-94 story
I can't you in apartment buildings so
you guys have a big task at hand
what we're asking as a small
neighborhood we can't stop all the other
impacts but we will stop these impacts
on our street if we have to start which
we have we've taken some of the things
that we're doing by putting up our own
signs police in the streets because
there is none the red light camera
that's kind of a joke kids are out after
school after for walking the streets but
the cameras stopped at 4:00 so is it a
safety concern for those kids with the
red light are those snappy cameras no
it's a it's a money grab the school
district needs to do more with reaching
out to the neighborhood having meetings
impact meetings what they can do listen
along I'm surprised this is are you from
the school district too
no one representative from the school
district at a very important meeting
that impacts them so I agree with the
last speaker Siddhi school district
neighborhood there everybody should be
in this room discussing this stuff and
and finding out what works best for
everybody it's not it's not one-sided we
need our schools we love our schools we
the school district is phenomenal the
city's phenomenal we have a really good
place here but we do need to work
together to protect it come to common
ground what what works for everybody you
know like I said three years ago when I
spoke on the sporting complex that they
were a building not a junior high I
realized what the impacts were gonna be
and I was a little nervous I built a
brand new house up on Evans Lane night
it was a big commitment I went through
the permit process and it's it's
rigorous it's not an easy process I
understand that but I think on the other
hand if I would have done something
without my permits I would have been
red-tagged
stopped probably paid some hefty fines
and had to bring it up to code I know
how that works
I've lived it I've also have a friend
that lives over near Memorial Park where
she had to complete the sidewalk in
front of her house and now she has to
maintain it even though she gave that
property to the city I would ask the
school district to have the same kind of
responsibilities of obtaining there or
maintaining their sidewalks Gardens the
landscape choices that they made but
anyways I I think what your common theme
you're hearing here is the impact that
this Junior High not not just the
Lighting's has created and we just want
a little more accountability from the
school district some more common ground
some more meetings where we could all
get together and you know and I think I
don't know if it's the Planning
Commission's responsibility or
[Music]
the mayor's the council or if it's the
community you know to just put
barricades up we'll get some ecology
blocks and just shut off our street you
know I know that's not gonna work for a
while we'll get the police up there real
quick but we need a little relief it's
you know like I said last meeting when
the summer time comes it's like this is
great we get our streets back the kids
can play in the streets not that that's
healthy but you know it's I think all of
us were raised up on the street playing
ball and car comes you get off the
street just concerned I want I want my
kids to be able to walk from Evans Lane
cross second go over to the new
elementary school in a safe manner it is
not safe it's a safety concern so that's
probably my biggest beef is looking out
for my kids but also my neighbors
appreciate you guys um we've been it's
been a rough year
anyways I appreciate your guys's time
Lucy all the stuff you're putting
together and again my neighbors thank
you thank you
Michelle Gibson hi I'm Michelle Gibson I
own a home at 535 southeast Evans Lane
these are all my neighbors and I'm just
gonna echo what they have already said
about the impact and first of all I want
to say we love that kids play sports
that is wonderful keeps them off the
street keeps them off the computers and
they learn about a team playing good
sportsmanship
so they sports have has values to our
kids so we're not against the sports but
we're against how we feel you all went
about this and ignored our requests or
try to sneak things under
and as they already said the problems
we've been having already not just this
year was the hardest but it's been going
on and those what has impact our street
are the cars park blocking our driveway
so you can't even get out or in fire
hydrants blocked mailboxes blocked trash
day the sometimes garbageman won't pick
up our trash because they can't get to
it I mean how much do you want us to go
through here litter is left on the
street as they said speeding while her
children are at play I mean I'm echoing
this has been so frustrating for us and
as as we work together clean up our
streets we try to figure out how to stop
the spin you can't I mean James has been
out there and tried to wave them down
and they just be right past him and it's
a coldie sack and they come and they
turn around and then there's still sign
that says on 4th and sunset Street that
say you can't turn right when school
ends and you can't turn left when school
starts on to southeast Emma Street they
don't care they come and that's why it's
a speed a speed way through you're all
through all our homes yeah we would we
are requesting signs something that's no
student parking signs no event parking
signs down the 4th Avenue down Darce
down southeast Evans Lane there's got to
be something that you'd need to do for
us because this is a huge impact and I
agree that I don't know why you all
didn't think about having the lights lit
let us see what's going on before this
meeting happened appreciate all my
neighbors we work together appreciate
you all I just want you to listen to us
we have a voice and and as James noted
you also have our money be good stewards
thank you
anybody else from the cup public wish to
make comment I would request that you
sign in sign your name and address so my
name is Connie Marsh and I live on
squawk and I didn't want to come to this
meeting tonight because I've been to
several city meetings and then I thought
I know these people I've worked in this
area for I can't even tell you because I
weeded the city's property too for what
ten or twelve years until I finally
realized that it was doing no good
everything they say is true to the nth
degree and so when I read the note from
the attorney that at the very bottom
says yes they don't have to review SEPA
as long as the impacts are mitigated
everything that he says is predicated on
that and well clearly the impacts of the
entire school were not mitigated but
we're talking about the lights so can
you actually say that the increased
hours of the sporting fields and the
lighting and the noise and the people's
quality of life is not being impacted by
these extended hours and I don't think
you can say that I think there are
impacts now when you look at the
conditions that the city is adding are
the conditions that are being added
going to solve the impacts that are
being described is it are they going to
keep the noise down at 10 o'clock at
night you know is it going to make it so
that they can feel
safe on their streets no etc so I would
say that this needs to go back and have
a SEPA addendum or a supplemental would
be really awesome but I doubt it would
happen by the school district because
they said there were not going to be
lights the community did not get to have
the conversation at the appropriate time
so when I was I was chatting with the
Parks Department today because I was
curious about how they usually cite
lights in their fields and what types of
processes that they do to ensure that
the community feels like they are not
being impacted by lights and they go out
to the community and they have these
discussions about this is the kind of
lighting these are the hours these are
the guards these is the trees these are
the rules how do you feel about that and
what do you want and it is specific to
each area and right now you're looking
at putting lights in an area that's not
in Issaquah the the homes are so close
and the parking is is not close and I
think it needs to go out for a community
discussion before the lights ever go up
now
the school district says they're good
neighbors good neighbors would say we
need to take out this this out to a
community process because we want an
awesome town we don't want people
victimized by the schools and the rules
so how do you as development Commission
get to an ideal end point with the tools
that you have it seems like we've been
asking this question for so long what
are the tools you can use and I frankly
don't think that it's clear how far you
can go on your conditions tonight if you
would so you see I stutter because I how
do how do you solve the problem you see
them
you see more impacts to them you know
it's your community so I guess all you
can do is ask staff who has the
knowledge how to solve the problem and
if staff says you can't then we have we
have a way bigger issues and lights in
one field don't forget to sign in yes I
am
and would you sign make sure yes I will
yes thank you so I'm Christina burning
and I live at 580 Front Street which is
adjacent to the Rainier Trail and also
Clark elementary school I have been
proud to call a Sequoia my home since
1991 this is a I live in the area where
it's the multi families it's often too
pointed out that it's apartments these
are people's homes
we are condominiums it doesn't matter if
you're an apartment or a condominium or
a single family this is people's home
sadly we are all too familiar with what
it's like to live next to IMS with
lighting a number of years ago you might
remember there was artificial turf and
stadium lighting that IMS wanted to put
in at this time it was eight feet from
people's bedroom windows nobody knew
that until the community came and said
hey eight feet not very far it wasn't
just about the lights we talked about
the impact it's the people it was the
trespass our parking was closer to the
field just had to hop a fence than the
school district parking this is a middle
school these were not middle school
children using the field late at night
the language that we were subjected to
was not coming from middle school
children these were all adult leagues
these were private leagues people who
paid good money and I was the one that
had my quality of life impacted we are
an immediate neighborhood of 48 families
but I represent a community awareness
initiative much like this group here
that have come together we found many
years ago to be heard in Issaquah we
needed to have a cohesive voice I stand
here representing hundreds of families
not just Windsong apartments not just
it's a Cockrell errington apartments the
retirement home people in the south end
of Issaquah that said you know what we
are Issaquah we've had to convince our
neighbors that the city really does
believe we are Issaquah because of the
lack of service that we often get so to
bring us together I am NOT a stranger to
the school district we have had plenty
of meetings that we have initiated
because we are good neighbors
we've hear that before we had direct
hotlines to the school hey let us know
when you're doing your summer you know a
little thing before kids go so we can
just at least let people know so people
want to disappear so they don't have to
hear the jumpy stuff they can do that
during the course of all of this stuff
January February
you might recall last year Clark
elementary school was being built it has
not been an easy year school district
knows that I had personal cell phone
numbers of superintendents on projects
and of school district they counted on
us to be their eyes before the cameras
were in place and have the people over
there stealing things we are the ones
who said hey something's not right
people are over there we did far more
than I think our share but we were happy
to do it because we are proud to call
this a quat home through this the reason
why I share that story is because we had
constant contact with the school
district and we didn't just talk about
Clark we talked about IMS I am NOT on
the city payroll I am not on the school
district payroll but it was important to
me to countless hours of meetings and we
kept hearing no lighting at the Issaquah
middle school no lighting you do not
need to worry are you sure because
things have slipped through before in
the past are you sure
imagine our surprise when standing at
our home we all of a sudden see what is
that structure Mary had a beautiful
picture I think you were in my house you
could literally see the structures I was
disappointed this whole narrative
tonight is extremely concerning to me
the community looks to the school
district to provide let's see supplement
city parks I don't believe it should
follow with at the expense of our
quality of life I think those are two
separate things good neighbors open
communication standing right before the
school district directly asking these
things were not addressed my experience
sadly mitigation doesn't work we have
been there we have tried it becomes a
job it becomes a constant job for us to
have to document contact the police
protect our personal belongings it's
exhausting and it goes completely
against the values that this city stands
for so I want to thank you all for your
service to the community because I know
it's not easy and you put in hundreds of
hours so as you take into these
conferences the this feedback from the
community into consideration by all
means please come walk it come take a
look
imagine the trees with no leaves even
with the leaves I still see them thank
you very much
great appreciate it
[Applause]
good evening I'm Jeff tanka and I'm the
Association president for Issaquah crown
condominiums we're located on Front
Street south and I did speak at the the
last meeting here and voice some of the
concerns regarding lighting and just to
recap a couple of those items is our
property is situated immediately
adjacent to the existing Clark
elementary school our property also goes
adjacent to the Rainier Trail and
immediately to the east of that is the
ISD Transit Center then of course
heading east you get to 2nd Avenue and
then to the ims build-out with all the
construction that has been going on with
the school district we have been
impacted over and over again when they
when the school district did
improvements to the Transit Center they
took out hundreds hundreds of trees and
they built the expansion of parking lot
up onto a high area and where they
parked the bus as they put in lighting
the Lighting's fairly tall we can see
those lights from our property we can
see the lights on the rainier trail the
lights at the parking lot are higher
than the rainier trail with the trees
being removed we can now see the
lighting on the street on second avenue
we can see the towers which haven't been
lit yet on the new sports field which
those towers are significantly higher I
will say that right now with a lot of
the leaves on the trees the towers are
somewhat obscured well that's great the
days are longer and we're coming up on
summer when this field probably wouldn't
have that much use come winter time or
the or the five and a half months of the
year when there are leaves not on the
trees it's very visible it's so visible
in fact that we can see lights on at the
new ims school in the rooms themselves I
know that there's been a lot of
discussion and I'm
stand that there's a lighting expert
here I was not here for that part of the
meeting I know that there is technology
where you can direct lights more the the
thing is with this property and where
they built out the sports field it is
actually the regionalised high spot you
can see that when you go out to the
property and when you take that into
effect and the height of those towers
you will see the lighting there's not a
question on that that is our big concern
we have a lot of light infiltration into
our property literally from every
direction as a result of a lot of it
from the school district so we were very
concerned I think it was 18 24 months
ago when we were talking to the school
district about the build-out on Clark of
the Clark elementary school we did
discuss AMS and the sports fields and at
that time we did engage in conversation
see if I think you were in that meeting
as well and we asked about lighting and
they said no absolutely not
that's not part of the standard for a
middle school that won't happen we're
just going to have regular fields are
gonna be for a daytime used you know to
support the school activities we were
very surprised when we saw the
construction of the towers and I'm sure
those towers cost a couple of dollars
I'm surprised that that would go ahead
and be constructed without having
permits and authorization to go through
on that it leads me to the question what
else has been done that we don't know
about at that property Transit Center
Clark I mean it just opens up a whole
lot of questions good neighbors well at
least we try to be we try and keep open
communication but it just seems to be
very very trying on multiple levels so
we are concerned about the lighting
we're not as directly impacted with the
other impacts of parking so on and so
forth but we do get that indirectly so
thanks for your consideration in this
matter anybody else from the public here
I have that up here sorry anybody else
from the public wish to make comment so
I will
close off the public input portion of
this meeting Lucy do you want to make
comment or should we have some
commissioner discussion how about
comments from the commissioner
voice how about questions from the
commissioner I have one regarding that
cut off the specified cut off in
condition five says 10 p.m. there's also
an allowance there for the lights to be
on an additional half-hour is that right
so let me
right I believe that that is what the
code says and so that would be a
question of whether the 30 minutes
should be within that time just a quick
follow up similar question so the the
code says cuz I had a similar
observation that the main lighting and
this is eighteen point seven point 107
outdoor lighting in the city code and it
says that main lighting shall be turned
off as soon as possible following the
end of the event and at no time longer
than thirty minutes following the end of
the event so the way the condition is
written it is assuming ten o'clock is
the end of the event if we want to allow
lighting to run well that period of time
so I had some follow-up questions for
mr. cropper to just about operation of
the field and how that's going to work
nature of events that you anticipate and
how the lighting so maybe I'll try to be
more systematic about so just throw a
bunch of at you so can you talk a little
bit about how the lighted fields that
the school district currently has an
operation function you talked about an
automatic shut off of that skyline but
does that mean the lights come on every
day they run until 10:00 at night and
then they go off or are is there some
other way that these things are managed
event specific there's switched on if
there's a scheduled event and they're
set up to switch off and that's at 10:00
p.m. and it was my interpretation that
10:00 p.m. was the timeframe that the
lights would go off not that you would
run an event till 10 p.m. and
potentially the lights would stay on for
another 30 minutes so in the lighting at
skyline and anticipated or planned for
here at the middle school is is there
when the event lights go off there's
lighting available to allow for cleanup
and
and exiting the facility is that how the
lighting plan is rated there's there
would be parking lot lighting and
pathway lighting in the adjacent areas
the field area itself is going to be
dark so the area the stands and
everything would be reliant on the
lights
that on the field lighting for all on
are all off essentially generally the
cleanup doesn't happen at the end of the
evening
anything that cleaned up that isn't
taken away by the user gets addressed
the following morning so when in the
field area when the lights go off it's
dark and then also just field operation
during the summer months are their
anticipated use of the fields into the
evenings during the summer months as
well I would say that that would be yes
that's not school district use but
that's community use and it's largely
Parks and Rec use the use of the fields
is governed by a school district policy
manual but the the rates and such are
more favorable for in district users
that for Parks and Rec if I think it's
40 50 percent of the participants are
from the local area there's no charge
for the use and the refuse is pretty
heavy okay just you can bear with me
these are all kind of related questions
so I'll just try to take them off my
list here just from an operation
standpoint since mr. Crawford's at the
microphone the you talked about minimal
amount of seating that's provided in
this facility can you talk a little bit
about what what is the amount of crowd
that's anticipated and accommodated in
this particular field
it's not a field that's anticipated to
have large crowds there's bleacher
seating that probably is on the order of
180 to maybe 200 people on the east side
and the potential for overlap with the
high school events on this is their
coordination between what's happening
with the high school and other adjacent
fields in this or I think realistically
you would find that there would be
overlap of use of the middle school
field and the high school field that
that there would not be an exclusive
scheduling of one and not the other so
the answer is yes they would over
potentially overlap I would anticipate
that would be true those are my
questions about operations mr. Harrison
yeah I'd like to go back to that slide
that was on there before these
no the IMS sport field will be limited
to use up to 10 p.m. period the field
lights shall be turned off as soon as
possible following the end of the event
and at no time longer than 30 minutes
following the end of the game or event
period who enforces that the enforcement
is a more difficult kind of thing to
assure that the lights get turned off
why because there's there's a custodian
in the building and he's not monitoring
the use of the field to know if
somebody's finished at 9:30 or 9:45 the
typical user signs up for a period of
time and it's going to run until close
to the time when the lights are turned
off and so we found that to assure that
the lights are off at a set time they're
on a timer you don't have somebody
forgetting about it and the lights run
till 11 o'clock or all night long so mr.
Crawford can the school district tell
the people that live around the school
that those lights will go off at 10:00
p.m. the hears that on a timer to go off
at a fixed time if it's desired to be
10:00 p.m. it's 10:00 p.m. okay that
says 10:00 p.m.
I'm trying to I'm trying to determine
what commitment the school district will
make to the neighbors and that is a flat
statement there that will that the
lights will be turned off at 10:00 p.m.
and then the next sentence says as soon
as possible and my question is who
determines as soon as possible
why can't it I mean isn't it likely
frankly no let's not get into conjecture
but just who determines as soon as
possible
because that okay anybody that's going
to sign up for the use of the field is
going to sign up for the use of the
field and they're going to generally use
it for as long as they can so they know
that the lights are supposed to go off
at 10 o'clock the last block of time
runs till 9:45 or 10 o'clock and so they
know by prior experience that the lights
are going to turn off at 10 o'clock
they're gonna wrap up and they're gonna
leave a little bit early because the
field gets dark so you don't play till
10 o'clock and have to leave in the
darkness so we can best assure that the
lights are going to go off at a point in
time if they're on a timer and they're
not subject to somebody trying to
remember to turn them off and it's
proven to be a better way to go about it
if we want to have the lights off at a
fixed point in time it's best to have
them on a timer so they go off would you
be good comfortable with that sentence
being deleted the as early light shall
be turned off as soon as possible
following the end of the event and at no
time longer than thirty minutes
following the end of the game or event
because what I'm hearing you say is the
lights are going to go off at ten
o'clock period I think it's a better
management and it's better for the
adjacencies to have the lights go off at
a fixed point in time rather than try
and say okay well Tuesday night they got
done early and it's 9:25 and we're going
to turn them off at 10:50 at that point
in time
somebody's got to manage that and
manually do it and if a custodian isn't
thinking about it and gets busy with
something and maybe runs past ten
o'clock so put them on a timer to turn
off at a at a determine point in time is
the best solution
no I'm public I'm not finished yet sir
what percentage of the activities on
this specific field will do you think if
you don't have a specific figure based
on past usage of the facilities there
but what percentage of this field once
it is illuminated if it is will be
conducted by private non school district
soccer clubs leagues whatever I don't
know we could probably do some research
to find that I know that a predominant
portion of the time that isn't used by
the school district is used by City
Parks and Rec and support of their
programs so does does the city parks and
recs have the control over contracts
with soccer leagues and you know non
school district entities that wanted
would like to use the field they have
priority for scheduling over non users
are non local resident groups okay the
question of amplified sound has been
raised a couple of times so once again
amplified sound is not defined so that's
that's concern that I have
the second is who enforces no amplified
sound so at district wa-hi skyline and
the major stadiums there's an amplified
sound system that's installed in the
facility and their speakers that
broadcast to the surrounding field area
the middle school doesn't have an
installed amplification system or
speakers it's within the realm of
possibility that user groups are going
to bring something that creates sound
yep okay so who tells them turn that
and get it out of here it can be part of
the rules and who's gonna be there to
enforce it becomes a question of whether
we've got a custodian in the building
and there's not a staff person that's
sitting out there monitoring the sound
so mr. Crawford do you believe that that
is a legitimate concern of the neighbors
amplified sound on this on this field I
think that there are times when there's
probably users who would bring boom
boxes or whatever okay well my
understanding is that you said that the
construction of the light poles was the
fault of a quote overzealous contractor
unquote there was a permit that had been
submitted and that it was supposed to be
processed and approved before the actual
installation would take place and there
overzealousness they moved ahead of what
should have been a proper scheduling how
long did it take for the contractor to
direct the poles pour the base the
concrete base I assume they're places
the bases are precast okay and they go
in the ground and I think the bases went
in one day and the poles went up the
next day
thank you
other comments other questions I'm sorry
other questions questions yes I
understand that would Issaquah will be
the first middle school to have lighting
I understand there's lighting in
progress at a couple of others is that
right
Lighting's in progress at pine lake
scheduled for Beaver Lake and may wood
and Pacific cascade would you say of all
of the middle schools is this the one
with the most dense housing close to the
middle school field or is there similar
density around some of these other
middle schools Pine Lake would probably
be similar Maywood has probably more
housing closer by Pacific cascade would
have housing to the northwest there's no
housing to the south side so in all
cases there are some residential units
nearby observation on the conditions it
seems that the wording that's been added
to the conditions in 3 & 5 really come
from the Municipal Code and it's its
language that reiterates the municipal
code correct it's just a duplication of
that language I wonder why that was done
if the project needs to perform to the
code anyway and it seems to allow what
mr. Harrison suggested that maybe
condition 5 would be clearer if that
second sentence were simply removed so
you you're absolutely right it
reiterates code there are times when
projects aren't complying with code that
we put that in the condition I think it
was to emphasize it and provide clarity
I think five could proceed either with
or without the second sentence
I understand how the school district is
operating at this time that the best way
to proceed would be to have the lights
automatically turn off at a time at a
fixed time I think the question becomes
if there was a different technology we
would actually want the lights to be
turned off sooner if the event ended
earlier so that that's the only question
I have I understand practically the way
it works right now that's setting that
time and being clear that the lights
can't be on past that time is consistent
with the technology it just the
technology may evolve so that an event
may actually be over earlier in that
language says simply when that event is
over lights off as soon as possible
after right they could program it so
that it I mean at some point there may
be technology in which every single day
of the week could be different and set
up so that they know what time the
events are supposed to end and it just
automatically ends then for 30 minutes
later well then that would be one of my
questions is it it seems like the
control of when the light goes off is is
shared between the school district and
the Park Department and so I don't know
what kind of coordination there is
between the school district and the Park
Department because it makes sense that
if the if if everybody knew what was
going on the lights could be turned off
much earlier than 10 o'clock as opposed
to just I mean the easiest thing is to
set a timer and say well they'll go off
at 10 o'clock that's not the most
neighbor friendly and so I'm wondering
who who would take the responsibility of
doing that coordination and making if
you're setting a timer as it's not
rocket science I don't believe and so
you could adjust it to depending on when
the approved events were scheduled and
it would avoid some of the non
permitted events taking place of just a
bunch of guys going up there and playing
touch football or something who does
that is that coordinated and and who
would do that
the district does the scheduling for the
fields both for the Park Service and the
school district so permanently we could
look and see what percentage of time
scheduled events don't run till the per
anticipated end time and lights don't
come on if there isn't an event
scheduled so there could I mean there's
a coordination of when the lights come
on if if you know there's an bench
schedule and it's going to turn off at
nine o'clock I would imagine there's a
way that we can make that technology
work to turn them off at nine o'clock so
so I apologize I'm asking new questions
now I see that what the Parks Department
reports is 8 p.m. on weekdays for city
community use of your fields ok so does
that I mean the 10 p.m. the Jewish
sighting was related to the high school
skyline and I'm just wondering if if
it's a middle school and the parks
department is done at 8 p.m. if we could
set it at 8:30 or something they could
turn off at 8:30 because the middle
school use is generally going to be done
before that time period there was one of
the questions from the from the public
is the scheduling and recognizing the 10
o'clock with the bright light on may be
abusive and and so how do how do we how
to identify when a reasonable time for a
middle school field activity would be a
reasonable to be turned off well I would
anticipate the majority of the youth
after the school district use is going
to be Parks and Rec and if they're only
scheduling till 8 o'clock it would be
easy to turn the lights off at 8:15 or
8:30 or something it was a question I
had about operations in the need for 10
o'clock and there was discussion so
there's this balance before I ask my
question there's this balance that we're
trying to find between significant
investment public dollars in these
school facilities and trying to maximize
the benefit of that investment in their
use and a need in the community for
athletic fields that people can use well
at the same time we have people who live
right next door I want to make sure
we're sensitive to the impacts that
they're having so there's it looked like
and I looked at the information of long
scheduling between the parks department
provided it runs a little later on
weekends during the weekdays it's
they're done at 8:00 essentially I don't
know what the school districts plan is
for operation you know anticipate a
revenue generation all that stuff about
how this feels get this particular field
gets program but I'm looking for an
alternative that's not ten o'clock yeah
so particularly during the week
personally I think that's a little bit
late to have an activity going on right
next to a neighborhood that's this close
to this particular use now in the future
that might change that with some
experience but it seems that finding an
appropriate time that it strikes a
balance and I am not in the middle of
the operations of the school and
neighbor but idea of we condition it
we've got to remember that's the
condition of the approval and they have
to come back and amend the permit to
change it right so I don't know where
other commissioners are how they feel
about I mean here operations of the
field and where the right balance is
from a condition standpoint that we
might want to oppose it's different than
tan or whether you believe tenzin
appropriate I absolutely agree with you
I wonder what the impacts would be if we
change that 10 p.m. to 9 p.m. when I go
a step further and say 7:30 yeah you
know I think most of my questions were
answered who determines that is it
the parks department or the school
determines that deadlines are if that is
what is the norm if we do limit it to
eight for instance is that allowing the
parked parks department the full
potential so so I don't know who would
address that question for them to hold
events at the field so given what we've
heard from the community I would push
for an earlier time so the slide that I
happen to had up a moment ago
so the information I was looking at was
so the four city fields they go until 10
p.m. which was my er and not reading
closely enough to see that for city and
community use of ISDN fields it's 8 p.m.
on weekdays and 5 p.m. on Saturdays so I
mean I I completely agree with
Commissioner Brennan that we're trying
to strike a balance between an
investment and a public facility that
it's not just the school but the city is
using and trying to limit the impact to
the neighborhood and the fields are not
a revenue generator the policy set up so
that local users basically have the fees
waived in the worst case condition if
it's rented out by a public or not a
public but a private user non-local
resident group it's $40 an hour so the
school districts not making money off
the use of the fields and I think that
coordination with parks and recs
scheduling makes a lot of sense I mean
that was the primary user for the
extended hours the middle school itself
is going to use the fields for a period
of time after school but that's not
going to go beyond the 8 p.m. timeframe
um what kind of rules do you have posted
at the school fields are they I don't
know if you saw the one that the school
district used to have I mean the city's
Parks and Rec Department rules are
pretty similar for turf fields Lucy I'm
sorry I didn't hear your question oh I
apologize I was asking I was it was
related to the bottom point about
restrictions and the school district had
provided a list and it's one of the
attachments in your packet I'm just
trying to find it so I can its
attachment 5 on page 39 of your packet
which was the cities these are the older
rules that they're in the process of
updating but I was curious what kind of
rules were posted at the school fields
and if I mean ours could certainly be
part of that but I think that in trying
to understand the impacts to the
neighborhood or I mean telling you not
to park where you're not supposed to
park is not going to have an impact what
are your what about no amplified sound
yes I think if that I yes I think things
that relate directly to the field are
wise I think the other things are going
to have we're gonna have to deal with
operationally it if I'm reading the the
frequency of events there's no Sunday
event scheduled that they aren't allowed
to use the fields on Sunday it says
Monday to Friday and Saturdays but is
there any restriction on Sunday use I'm
not aware that there is or is not I'm
sorry I'm not aware that there is or is
not okay
I'm sorry I'm sorry
well any use of the fields has to be
scheduled and if it's not a scheduled
event to feel the the perimeter fencing
is going to be locked so if there's
somebody on the field that's not
scheduled to be a user then they're
using a deal illegally and trespassing
I'm a little concerned with that there
seemed to be a number of unmet
obligations as far as parking and
speeding and driving through gates and
that kind of thing and so to to rely on
the notion that if there's not a permit
that the field won't be used and that if
it is used somebody will trespass what
we apparently we can't even figure out
how to make sure we get somebody to go
in and turn the lights on or off what
what's the obligation what's the what's
the recourse of the the neighborhood
when after five o'clock there's a use on
the field and who are they supposed to
call or what are they supposed to do if
the school ring have a phone number
posted and they can call the phone
number they'll get them into touch with
the school district security Department
there's a known okay so I'm betting -
those are people that are available
after hours and they do expect calls
there's not going to be the a button
buddy that's reliably going to be on
campus on Sunday so just security person
those personnel are and you know they
are aware that they get calls so
more questions yeah I'm trying to come
back to that condition number five and
talk a little bit more about amendments
that we might want to introduce here
just a couple kind of questions and
maybe this is more toward the chair in
the Commission and that's establishing
the hours of limitation the the code
says on the one ii sense it's about you
need to trim off as soon as possible
following the end of the event in no
time at our new longer than 30 minutes
well that's in the code whether we have
enough condition or not it's applicable
i mean we don't do get to strike the
code requirements and that's something
that's already in there that the issue
for me is that that the limit on the
lighting period on months like you where
you don't need light up until nine
o'clock right now i mean you can use the
third tunnel doing that they can use the
fields without light i think the concern
here is lighting the field and the
ongoing activity that that creates
during the darker periods of the year so
i'm this notion of trying to it's fairly
conservative from an operation
standpoint but this eight o'clock cutoff
that is typical for most events seems to
be an appropriate place and then like i
said at some point into the future
if that isn't workable or we find that
there's different ways to manage this
that it would allow later and then they
would have to come back and amend but i
i'm generally comfortable with eight
o'clock i think that's reasonable to
light the maximum period of lighting
would occur up until 8 p.m. and then
also the code says that there needs to
be lighting that's not the field
lighting but lighting for allowing
people to exit in clean up after an
event so that's a code requirement so
somehow the plan needs to reflect that
it sounds like from what mr. crawford
said it doesn't include that right now
that's a city code requirement so two
thoughts I one is in terms of the
low-level lighting I think that was
addressed through the rest of the
lighting for the site so that I think
the issue is when do the sports field
lights go off because the site lighting
is already present the one suggestion I
would have relative to the you're
absolutely correct of course that the
code says it has to go off as soon as
possible no longer than thirty minutes
if if we set a time though I think there
would be value in the condition
clarifying the relationship between the
thirty minutes and when the lights have
to go off is the thirty minute if it's
if it's supposed to be off at eight
o'clock is the thirty minutes then that
means the events have to end at 7:30 or
are we saying that the events end by
8:00 and the lights are off by 8:30
because I think going forward we'll have
some confusion about it just like we are
having and reading the not so well
worded condition about how those two
pieces relate to one another and
clarifying that would be I think really
helpful for all parties it seems like a
railway right I don't know if there any
I mean III have a word document with all
the conditions so we can edit it on
screen I think the question is are there
any other items that we want to address
or is it just that condition it does
seem like there would be value to adding
a condition that rules will be it posted
including no amplified sound and I don't
know if there are other items that are
worth specifying in that I did have one
other question it was just I didn't
understand it what constitute a special
event and in are those allowed or those
not allowed I was unclear on that
so special event permits the definitions
is unfortunately vague I I did go to the
person who manages those permits to try
and get some clarity around that and I
think that's why the example of the high
school sporting events not requiring a
special event permit was given because
that was sort of it's it's more by how
it's been used I mean it typically is
[Music]
more significant events like runs where
you're closing down streets or the
American volleyball tournament that has
been coming for the last few years where
you have significant and unanticipated
activities and traffic in certain
locations so I I'm kind of deducing this
it is not spelled out but because it's a
sports field that there would be games
would not lead to a special event permit
because the sporting events are
anticipated and and they are currently
allowed as yes just at that point Kevin
our Commissioner I'm sorry is not the
distinction between a school district
event a city sponsored event and a
private event because special is is
almost unnecessary an event is by
definition is a special happening that's
when an event is so if the clarification
is to it for these purposes
wouldn't it be as at the school event is
it an ISD event is it a city parks
sponsored event or is it a private event
well I guess my question would be well
we can make those distinctions I'm not
sure that the experience of the
neighborhood would be different in terms
of a sporting event on those fields
and typically their traffic control
plans predominantly I mean there's
clearly work to be done with the
neighborhood and but I'm not sure that
the special event permit would fix would
fix the concern that the valid concerns
that are being raised the majority of
users are leagues and ongoing teams so
that there's not that higher percentage
of just individual users there's not
much time that's left over after the
league's gets finished scheduling
typically they're actually looking for
more time and they all know that if they
don't abide by the rules they don't get
scheduled so that's a sort of somewhat
self policing issue there's more demand
for the use of the fields than there is
time available and so if they're not
behaving they're not going to get
rescheduled they're not going to have
use of the fields would it be possible
to place a condition of no special
events or is that outside the purview of
this particular hearing can you say more
of what you're thinking well just say no
special events by permit or otherwise
outside so then the question becomes
what a special event is is the middle
school use of the field until 6:30 a
special event is from 6:30 to 8 o'clock
a special event because it would
seemingly be that the school district or
Parks and Rec would have to apply for a
special event for nearly every night to
accommodate the potential use and I
don't know how long in advance you have
to apply for a special use permit well I
I guess so let me explore what you might
see if I gathering so if there is a
sporting event on the field that
wouldn't seem like a special event but
are you exploring that if it was used
for a flea market
or some something inconsistent with its
most obvious use that then
would that qualify as a special event
yes and outside of the normal hours of
operation I think that would constitute
special as well special permission to
exceed the hours of operation that we
know we define here that feels special
but you know I guess we can't have it
both ways and say no special events
aren't allowed but or none of the events
are actually special and not allowed you
know it we have to define it somehow and
I think yeah what would step outside the
expected use of those fields I think is
one way so I think the hours of
operation you're talking about what
those hours would be so I think that I
guess my question is those are
artificial turf right would you allow
anything other than a sporting event on
an artificial turf field well there
might be some events that don't that
would abide by the rules of the use of a
turf field that wouldn't normally occur
and if I would I would concur that if
something were to be proposed that was
outside of the approved hours then it's
certainly a special event off the top of
my head I can't think of anything
particularly but maybe there's a Breast
Cancer Walk or something that brings in
a larger number of people then ain't
normal
yeah I think that'd be the best
mechanism is time especially when the
high school is available for special
events so it's not as though we're
eliminating the possibility overall but
to allow it on both sites it seems like
something we could do
so are you suggesting that if both
fields are in use simultaneously it
becomes a special event
well no I'm saying we just limit the
middle school to have no special events
the high school it sounds like already
and have special events
why do both of them need it there's
already a venue in place
why couldn't we limit it in the middle
limit limit the use of the middle school
to no special events and again maybe I
may be down a rabbit trail here that
isn't in the purview of this and maybe
the time limits are enough framework for
that I guess I guess I would suggest
that it kind of doesn't matter whether
it's an event or a special event if you
close it off at 8 o'clock it doesn't
matter right you can call whatever you
want right and I think your statement
that it probably has more to do with the
time than than anything else and if the
if the heart and Rec heart and fast rule
is whatever we don't care what you do
whatever you do have to be done at 8
o'clock the lights go out at 8 o'clock
so you have to be done at 7:30 if you
want we're talking just about the middle
school yes no that's that's well that's
that's what we're talking about here ok
either other questions I had a question
for our lighting specialist if if that
was appropriate Thank You mr. Crawford
kind of appreciate your standing in you
know one of the one of the comments that
somebody from the public made or maybe
several talked about the ability to
screen some of the lighting and I while
it looked like from the from the
photograph the lighting photograph had a
lot of a lot of the lighting stayed
within the field is there ways to shield
the light bulbs so they can't be seen I
mean I that that seemed to be a major
concern especially from the trail along
side the bus parking terminal or
whatever it's called again I'm going
brain-dead sorry so from a from a
lighting perspective is there a way to
put shielding on the light so you can't
see him from behind sure it's a pretty
common thing to do it's called what we
call a house side shield and it's
essentially a piece of sheet metal
painted black that sort of wraps around
the backside of the fixture although I
will say one of the reasons I
recommended that we have a field
verification of what the actual
performance is is that these fixtures in
particular are better shielded than most
things that people are familiar with so
they've already got really good
shielding built into them and it may not
be necessary so but a field verification
is really the only way to determine if
that's true or not and particularly
because here we've got quite a broad
change in the topography as Lucy
mentioned before the people who are
lower than the field are going to be
more significantly impacted than the
people who are higher than the field and
so they're the ones who if a shield
would benefit someone it would be the
people on the lower side of the field
and and the kinds of calculations that
have been submitted don't really give
you that information because they assume
everything's flat around it so that's
why you need to do the field or the site
verification to determine that but it's
it is possible to do
you know an iPod if you said your name
well I didn't I'm Denice Fong hey thank
you I said it but that was a long time
ago okay
I've got a short good memories just
short mr. Chavez since mr. Fong is at
the microphone can I ask a follow-up
absolutely
look miss Fong can you describe the
process of doing the assessment what is
how do you go about making a
determination as to whether they're
complying with conditions and the city's
code and then making a determination as
to whether shielding would be
appropriate or not that's a good
question so one of the things we do
there are recommended standard
illumination levels for fields of this
kind of use so one of the things we
would do is we would actually measure
the light levels on the field to see
that they don't exceed what the
recommended levels are so that's one
part but that doesn't really address
potential glare to neighbors that live
around the perimeter so for that
unfortunately that's not something
that's easily measured it's really
something that's more of a visual
assessment so as Lucy mentioned she
drove around and sort of got as close as
she could to certain areas to sort of
take a look what we've done in other
neighborhoods particularly when there's
been the kind of concern that these
neighbors have is schedule it with their
knowledge of when it's being scheduled
and then ask if some of them would allow
us to stand in their front windows to
see what we can actually see from their
window because that's what the concern
is and if they're willing to do that
then we can actually you know make that
kind of a button assessment somehow I
think they would be willing I sort of
got it if they would choose so taking a
wild guess yeah so that means please
make sure that your emails are clearly
written on the sheet so that I can
contact you because there's actually one
of the new the new condition that I that
was added to the sheet which I can pull
up and I don't minds up there had to do
with making that assessment oh good
yeah so new condition number six is
aimed fixtures and provide shielding
such that the fixtures do not create
adverse glare conditions for any drivers
on the adjacent second avenues southeast
I think that we would then add that you
know that we would also assess from the
residences and shield to the best of our
ability by actually being in their yards
absolutely question on that would the
verification test be done in the evening
or when is when would that be in test
they had to be done after dark yeah so
depending on the time of year like this
time of year it has to be you know ten
really we couldn't we couldn't do it
this time of year until about probably
ten thirty because it's not fully dark
until then if it didn't happen till the
fall then it would be you know earlier
so it just depends on the time of year I
wonder if there's any way to capture the
community's own opinions on the view of
the lighting from their own residences
during or after that verification test
well they would be a part of the
verification so they are feeding back
directly on this it's not just the city
being in the yard though they're going
to ask him if they can go in their
houses sorry can I ask one more question
following up on that is would there be
then any announcement community wide
that this test is occurring that would
allow people outside of this room that
aren't a party to this conversation to
to be aware that this test is going on
so I I think that that the 300 foot
notice that we have been mailing I will
say I'm getting a lot of them back but I
I think that the important thing is also
that people let their neighbors know but
we could send postcards and you know set
a time at which we are going to go out
and do the evaluation okay yeah I think
that would be good just to notify
everyone as best as possible
more questions
how about comments I do have a question
this is more of a maybe it's more of an
information for the Commission and staff
and the residents at here but this does
see have restricted restricted
residential parking zones and do they
use that to try to control spill or
parking no we've discussed them but they
haven't gone forward
aye aye aye so the one thing I will say
is that I know that three additional
police officers were hired for
enforcement for a trial period and I
don't know exactly I you know I'm I
don't know their schedule or exactly how
they're doing more enforcement but our
PCs residential parking zones have not
been used in the city yet
I think we'd sit yeah so any other
questions yes so tonight we heard 90%
about the operational issues probably
and the lading was kind of the trigger
for all that discussion so I wonder what
advice you could give the community in
terms of getting more support for all of
the operational problems we heard
tonight it sounds as though the police
support that's supposed to be there is
not there so what do they do I you know
it's hard for us to imagine that they
spend half their working day calling the
police department making a case that
it's a mess out there where you suggest
they go what's what's their next step
since we're focused on lighting here
well I guess what I would suggest
looking at the director is that he and I
need to be reporting back to the mayor
you know I might make a suggestion here
too and I've heard a few folks from the
neighborhood make this comment about
communication more frequent and
communication between the school
district particularly administration on
the school properties because mr.
Crawford's here his job is to deliver
new buildings and manage the facilities
but not dealing with the day-to-day
operational on guessing operations of
these schools and so somehow we've got
to connect up the people who are
impacted directly by the operation of
the school the principal with the
principal or the administration of the
schools so that there's a more frequent
dialogue some sort of a good neighbor of
committee or something like that that
allows that that to happen so that
there's the frustrations are expressed
solutions are discussed maybe there's
something there so it seems like because
of the intensity of school use in this
particular area these neighborhoods are
certainly feeling the impact from that
grow that that might be something to
explore I'm sorry I'm sorry
public okay you know when I was reading
this packet and thinking back over the
length of this issue I apologize for
what I'm about to say but I kept
thinking of an old Steve Martin routine
how to make a million dollars and pay no
taxes first make a million dollars
second pay no taxes what to say to the
IRS when they say you made a million
dollars and you didn't pay any taxes two
words
I forgot that seems to be what we're
dealing with here there is an the
problem with communications is the
illusion that it occurs and on this
particular subject we have had a couple
of years of experience now of breakdowns
in communications down to and including
an overzealous contractor my opinion is
that this is a textbook example of the
kind of failure of communications that
causes public cynicism and lack of faith
in our democratic system at the
municipal level and it's got to be fixed
and this is symptomatic of an opera this
is actually an opportunity or the city
and the school district to start talking
together to address a problem that this
commission has heard at least for the
last five years on ISDN related projects
and their impact on the community it's
not not to change soon
so that sounded more like a comment and
i know i was i stupid I thought we were
going to comment the question I were
over I'm sorry I'm right no that sounds
like that was a great comment and I
think we would probably all agree with
that we've heard we've heard a lot of
that failure to communicate come back so
how about other comments since we're at
permanent decision it's probably past
comment period but we got to make a
choice okay that would be my comment
okay so I think it would be useful now
to if we could pull the conditions up
maybe hone in on what we're gonna do
here
can you read that or is it too small I'd
be just a little bigger for me but I'm K
my eyes are I was trying to get it all
on one page but I understand the problem
yes ma'am
we have it in our packets on page 23 and
then then new what I added here and on
your motion cheat
oh let's try the easy one I wouldn't
maybe suggest that we work with the new
one first since it's only two lines and
we can do this and maybe we add to the
language says after Lissy would read
conditions for any drivers on adjacent
second Avenue South East and to minimize
glare and neighbor neighboring
residential properties the idea here
maybe this isn't the right wording but
the idea here is that we're going to
evaluate light fixtures for glare to
make sure we don't create a road hazard
but we're also going to be looking at it
from a from the impact of the
residential properties and the use of
the word minimize doesn't always mean
we're going to be able to stock it
because there may be other things in
that limit the ability to shield it but
at least we would take a look at the
impact and see what we can do to really
minimize the goal any potential bulb
glare that might occur and that would
generally be driven by the topography I
think as we heard earlier I I took the
liberty of adding another sisters agree
in just a couple of tweaks there so that
the fixtures delete two of the fixtures
do not create percent
and then I think you don't need the two
before minimize Claire I love having an
editor I thought I would jump in before
commissioner Harrison because I knew he
was ready to go any other additions or
edits to number six good let's do 5 next
yeah I think that my sense was there was
general agreement at 8 o'clock or or
that can't remember 5 5 during the week
and 8 o'clock on the weekend on Saturday
night is that what the city thing was it
it is way around 8 o'clock on weekends
weekdays it's 8 p.m. on weekdays and 5
p.m. on weekends right now I just I
think it's easier just to set it time
8:00 coming and I think the weekdays are
actually more sensitive to time having
the lights on than the weekend would be
personally but again I don't live next
door to one I've played on fields that
are lighted but I think I would actually
do the opposite if we're going to
restrict the time so I think I would
personally stay with 8 o'clock as the
standard it's easier to administer to
that way and I would also add to that
and others can suggest other but I would
also add that the Imus sports field
lighting will be limited to use up to 8
so that would put that and I'd actually
lose it put that I mean I'm just started
typing I'll move it wherever doing it so
in the very first line once you finish
so you're suggesting moving that up to
the beginning yeah
oops
right then you can just spike the first
and strike the second set essentially
it's worth so I'm wondering about Lucy's
concern regarding the ambiguity there so
what I would suggest is maybe adding
something to the effect of I'm IMS
sports field lighting will be limited to
a p.m. which will include the allotted
30 minutes subsidy for something all
right I actually here's what I would do
with that and you then you could have at
it is I think I would leave it that's a
very direct statement that it says
lighting will be limited to 8 p.m. use
of the lighting that means all cases
you're done at 8 p.m. the lights need to
come down it also add that field lights
may be turned off as soon as possible
falling or you shall be turned off as
soon as possible following the end of
the event and no and at no time longer
than 30 minutes following the end of the
game or the event but in no case past 8
p.m. just to emphasize the deadline but
the idea here is and as technology
allows for I think you can as mr.
Crawford was saying when these fields
get scheduled they may have one event
it's going to end at 6 o'clock they can
program the lights to go down at 6:30
and then the people need to leave and
then you don't have now the guys that
want to go play flag football and sneak
onto the field later so I think the idea
of trying to maximize or min maximize
the benefit of hitting the lights down
sooner than later instead of just
sitting on 8 o'clock every day so I
think I mean I don't know how the
commissioner's field but I think from
staffs perspective having added the
phrase that you proposed helps make that
clear where the 30 minutes fall relative
to the APM which which was the thing I
was concerned about
so the I think the only other condition
the potential condition that we
discussed was requiring that rules be
posted which would include no amplified
sound let me try it chair you only to
try to deal with the amplified sound
condition so what we sound like there
was consensus to prohibit the use of
amplified sound on the field notice of
this condition will be included with
field rules placed at entrances to the
field on a durable sign or so did you
start over again and I'll I just made
most of that up as I went so so well
maybe maybe can you read it back to us
Susan did you did you do any better than
I did
he didn't hear you gee can you save the
seconds I have to do it in my right was
not I'm not gonna microphone so you said
prohibit the use of amplified sound and
notice of this condition will be
included with field rules placed at the
entrance to the field on a durable sign
it's good thing she can type fast I
appreciate that I do too okay does that
read all right should we say each
entrance I'm not familiar enough to know
but entrances entrance or the entrances
your choice I think that's adequate
actually there was always an athletic
field regulation signpost it anyway
right is that right
like on page 39 I guess I'm 42 right
that one actually is for the city parks
okay so all right similar is there a
similar sign posted on the middle school
field so we're really just talking about
adding that condition to that sign right
that wording to that sign wherever it
occurs
he's noting that it would be part of the
User Agreement so mr. Marsh brought up
special events and I'm I'm not sure
exactly where we landed on that and I
just want to ensure that if there's
condition language my impression was
that by limiting the hours you felt that
you had addressed the kind of didn't it
kind of didn't matter what kind of event
it was it was going to be done at 8
o'clock or 5 o'clock with it so it
really didn't seem to matter it what he
called it that isn't that what we yes I
would agree how's my understand
so other comments concerns mr. chair
like make a motion I move that the
Development Commission approve the
revision to master site plan MSP 14000
0-2 and site development permit SDP 14-0
zero zero zero one four days of qua
middle school to allow sports field
lighting project number prj 12 - zero
zero zero three one three as described
and evaluated in the staff report memo
dated May 31st 2018 with attachments one
through six and subject to the revised
conditions contained in the staff memo
new condition number six presented by
staff this evening and the amendments
made by the Commission this evening
yeah second yeah yeah we need a second
if that's a discussion I think there I
think it's really attachment or a new
condition number six and seven right
thank you yes and edits to number five
and edits number five right I said it's
me deceiving but yes yeah all of all of
the above yes thank you
so discussion further discussion is
there a second yes
okay in rent didn't didn't Commission
some I thought somebody's saying I'm
sorry
one second okay thank you
now discussion a further discussion all
those in favor of the amendment as
proposed with the corrections say aye
aye opposed no mr. chair I move that the
Development Commission directed
development services department to
prepare findings of fact and conclusions
for review and approval by the by the
development commission chair affirming
the development Commission's decision to
approve the revision to the Issaquah
middle school sports field lighting
project master's site plan MSP 14000 0-2
and site development permit number SDP
14 - is zero zero zero zero one subject
to the conditions listed in the staff
memo modified this evening in this
evening staff presentation and amended
here this evening including the
additional conditions with amendments we
have a second have a second all right
any discussion okay all those in favor
of approval say aye aye aye opposed the
motion is approved so that ends our
discussion are public hearing meeting on
the on the middle middle school land use
permits I don't know who wants to stay
for the roof
form of Gilman lots but before anybody
leaves contrary to some of the comments
made earlier the the reality is that as
you get together and voice your concerns
the city listens and we hear and we
appreciate the effort being made by the
by the community to be able to really
let us know how they feel that's really
a vital part of this democratic process
and we appreciate it a lot thank you so
Lucy do you want to so following our
meeting I guess about a month ago where
you approve the site development permit
for the work lofts we you had written a
condition regarding the form of the roof
and there was a lot of discussion about
whether it was complex enough or met the
intent of the architectural design
manual and so the applicant went back
made some changes staff looked at the
roof in particular so we're bringing
this back just to kind of close the loop
with the Commission so your condition
number six was that roof form shall be
more complex through the use of dormers
or other features consistent with Arts
and Crafts style so I I include our
first seminal in the lower right hand
corner mostly because it's just a good
view to see what the form of the roof is
even though it's continued to evolve
since that time and these are from the
middle which you approved this is the
Third's middle where they have added an
additional dormer I think in staff
looking at this additionally our
thoughts were that part of the one of
the characteristics
sorry words are failing me at this hour
one of the characteristics of arts and
crafts is that it's limited to 200 feet
and I think having to address this
condition is identifying why why there
that
why there is that limitation but and
part of the reason I put the aerial
perspective up is I think it shows the
that the roof has more complexity than
maybe it appears to begin with because
it has the two wings the double roofs at
the front the two bridges which are
visible from the front there are now
proposed to be 2 dormers on the east and
then the dormer and the chimney on the
west and so so then to kind of step back
into the manual again for a moment just
to remind you that complex was not a
defined term that there we're relying on
the phrases from the massing section of
Arts and Crafts as well as the images
that it's if the term is more complex
roof form steep pitched gable ends and
dormers and intersecting ridges and so I
know that one of the Commission's
concerns was as our first shot out of
the barn we don't want to reduce through
precedent the effectiveness of the terms
and so I think that while we may not
have hit it perfectly I think that we
have not we have worked a lot on the
roofs they've added quite a few elements
consistent with the terminology and the
imagery and I think staffs conclusion
was that this was sufficient to achieve
the goal of the architectural standards
but we as I said we wanted to close the
loop with the Commission
questions looks like a good solution to
me and I think we should remember that
the first bullet really says I think
more complex reforms than craftsman so
it's not an ultimately complex reform it
simply says more complex than craftsman
I think you've done a good job of trying
to recreate a traditional style in a
more contemporary building no problem
with it I agree I think I think it's an
improvement to what we saw it's modest
but it does break the building up a
little bit more adds a little more
complexity which I think we were looking
for I think what you said was well
stated about we're trying to find our
way and how we apply these new
regulations and understand them so this
was I think a really good first one to
pry because it added some challenges for
us to try to figure out how it fit and
then when we did figure out how it fit
and what style trying to figure out how
to make those characteristics work and I
think end of the day I think the
building improved fairly significantly
from the original so we'll see how it
keep how it goes now that we have these
standards in place as the Commission
works I think it is a really great new
set of tools for us and we just have to
practice using them and I I agree I
think it's almost ironic that we had
these two agenda items in the same
meeting because this this one to me is
encouraging encouraging in terms of the
process in turn in terms of having this
new toolbox figuring out which tool to
apply to achieve the desired goal and I
believe that as has been noted by my
fellow commissioners that the
improvements that have been made are
good and consistent so would you go back
one slide you that that's a middle
number three I I was looking at some
middle one we took the fire plate the
this chimney off right that that's not
any long
part of the other side so write that so
the side that we're looking at in up in
this upper right-hand corner this side
right here is the one we're looking at
here and the chimney is on the other
side I know that there was a lot of
discussion about the chimney I can't
remember where we ended up so the reason
for it right it wasn't right it wasn't
completely gratuitous okay so I just
have one last comment with respect to
precedents like well yes this does
potentially set a precedent but I I
guess I'd like to emphasize to all of us
precedent really lies with us going
forward right and so it's a lesson
learned to understand these tools study
these tools and use them to great effect
to enhance enhance the buildings that
come through after this one it you know
it really is with us and I guess what
I'm saying is I don't have that much
concern about this setting and negative
precedent although in the end of the day
it's not perfect it meets the spirit of
the design criteria and and it really
does just lie with us going for minute
so that's all I have to say and thanks
for all your work on yeah and I think we
I think we all feel better about the
product that we're getting at the end
then we might have a year ago sure right
I think so so well and and I think you
know I know many of the commissioners
have said this I and I was just thinking
about it as you were speaking one of the
things that I always do with my staff is
during some nice weather month like
August we we take a day and we go to all
the buildings that have been built that
year and we'll talk about whether we
think they worked or not and what didn't
work and what ARLA because pictures are
never and drawings are never the same as
the reality right and so it may mean
that we need to have some field trips
with the Commission to
you know once a year go out and look and
see how the things that we worried over
are those the things we should have
worried over if our is the language in
the design manual getting us the thing
you know is addressing the things so
there is are there clarifications or
additional tools I mean I I know that we
have really emphasized that it's a
living document and I think we have to
be thoughtful and creative about how we
go about achieving that and it may not
be sitting in this room I'm gonna be
delighted to take part in you know
expedition you've always wanted to do
site visits I think it was really
helpful when when we were putting them
in the design manual together that we
all were encouraged to go out and look
at buildings that we thought were good
bad and ugly you know and so being able
to look at what we built this year or
what was built this year or even the
last couple of years would be huge and
the other comment I wanted to make was
the notion of you're going to invite the
public to offer their houses and views
on those lighting it I'd like the
Commission to be aware of when sure
absolutely that makes a lot of sense so
the other thing keeps not here you know
there's the moratorium has been lifted
there are a bunch of new tools some of
which you know he worked on some I
worked on so you know different people
have worked on them I think that we are
hoping before because we don't have any
immediate projects that are coming in
under the manual or mean or that are
like ready to come to you that we have
talked about doing a mock project
because there are new district vision
tools that have developer obligations
there affordable housing tools their
parking you know there's a number of
things and we want to make sure that we
have an opportunity to have without an
applicant a frank and good test of of
those so that you all have an
opportunity to be familiar
with them before you're actually getting
an application ahead of time and and I
assigned that to him are you gonna be at
the North Bend meeting on the 16th of
June the state planning seminar oh no
commissioner Morgan and I have signed up
for it but short course no I did not
sign up for that no she's a professional
plan yeah but here's what I will say
thank you very much mr. Brennan and
who's gonna be instructing I will say
that when all of you know our four new
planners started last year I had them go
to the same short course last year
because as a short course in state
planning and we had several planners
from out of state and planners who had
not necessarily worked in the public
setting on on this side of the table you
know various it is an excellent way to
get a picture would you be willing to
send that is it too late to sign out I
just completely zoned that out but I
would like to attend that laughs she's
bolide out it's too late yeah I don't
agree
would you send that out I'll look for it
yep appreciate it thank you
Lucy also it may be 15 years ago I don't
remember when the city did this but one
of the things that I remember distinctly
in terms of a positive experience for
the Commission and perspective and
education and communication was there
was a an evening where we convened here
got on a bus and went to Mercer Island
and to Bellevue and met with planners
there about their challenges
basically what you know what we're
facing now and as I recall there was a
consulting company that was working with
the city at the time that went on that
trip with us and talked about you know
on the way out and back
and I found that to be a very very
helpful experience to see what our
colleagues in other local Eastside towns
were doing and why and what their
problems were and you know if we can do
that again or just at least consider it
it might be fine I wasn't that that was
a long time ago
it was before my tongue he's just but I
mean we did do that with you VDC in the
very beginning the other thing so to
thoughts as Nishita indicates we we have
a new commissioner we have a training
videotaped trainings that i will send
you a lesson to all the commissioners
but I particularly want mashita to see
it and at our next meeting we will need
to elect a president and vice president
or chair and vice chair of the
Commission so be thinking about that and
we'll include it on the agenda for the
comments so looking at the hour I think
it's time to adjourn
you