we have front-row available it's great
I'm good to go so let's call to order
the meeting of the Development
Commission on Thursday June 8th a
special night for us first order of
business is did you want to go through
the new membership okay tonight we have
two new members Richard Sanford I
believe you have you been present at a
previous show previously okay and yes
meaning me Hova and welcome very very
much this evening great and then our
first order of business would be
approval of minutes for May 3rd 2017 as
everybody had a chance to look through
those any Corrections changes do have a
comment on page 9 I think there's a
commissioner named Barbie ih are
referred to at the top of that page it
should that be Robert bak bak H look
they're closer divided well Lucy printed
a copy for me but she insisted I read it
there any other changes correction of a
motion to approve so moved a second
again all in favor aye
motion carries minutes are approved so
next item is election of officers so so
before the coming year will elect new
officers which would be a new chair and
a new vice chair there are any motions
from the full Oh mr. chair I understand
that there have been conversations with
our current chair about his willingness
to continue to serve if you were so
nominated by the Commission I just want
to confirm that that was mister like I
did talk to our chair and he's willing
to put in another year as long as we
doubled his pay
it starts at zero right exactly so so if
that is the case then mr. chair I
nominate our current chair to serve a
second term second nominated second for
Richard so the service chair for the
coming year
it's Richard have any complaints no any
discussion or any other nominees for the
chair position the other discussion or I
think he's done an outstanding job
serving his first year he's got his feet
under him I think he's got the hang of
it but I think he needs more practice
and so I think that is on another year
to practice is an excellent idea that's
it like I think I would agree I think
he's done a great job with some very
contentious meetings very long meetings
I think he maybe set the record for us
with a five-hour meeting so five and a
half but whose kind of it yeah
so you know their comments all in favor
aye aye aye opposed so mr. chair
following suit with the re-election of
our current chair seems appropriate then
that our current vice-chair continued to
serve as a second to the courage here so
if you wouldn't oppose I would like to
nominate mr. our Commissioner Morgan to
serve as a second term as the vice chair
exactly that was that are you sure you
don't want to wait until after the
matter how I do and no because I've seen
you in action before and you do an
excellent job when you're sitting in
that seat or as the vice chair so I
think it would be a privilege to have
you continue to serve well thank you
thank you any other nominations a
discussion on favor aye opposed okay so
we're done so we'll move to agenda item
four the moratorium work plan I just
wanted to take a moment and a chat with
the Commission about the packet which
was a little bit of a snafu so I wanted
to
explore you know when we send out permit
we always send hard copies to the
commissioners to ensure that you get
drawings in case you don't have a
monitor that's big enough to read
we made an executive decision not to
just to send this electronically I think
one of our lessons learned was that
having the memo that said that buried
inside of the packet probably wasn't so
helpful because people didn't probably
see that at all or it certainly not till
later but I think more importantly is
just the question of paper versus
electronic for these non permit kind of
packets because we're likely to have
some more of them as you're working
through this architectural fit and urban
design manual and so I just wanted to
get some feedback from the commissioners
people's thoughts on that well it's
probably the the most Neanderthal when
it comes to all things IT i do need when
it when there are plans I need them
I can read PDFs urgently thanks Jeff so
I would just request that unless it's
I'm the only one but that's the only
thing I need paper for is the plan is
that when when we have a packet that has
plans that one would have to open to get
the full vision of it I'm sure there's a
way of doing it online on a computer but
well microns are what so if unless you
you know 11 by 17 it's hard enough to
read of those plans and unless you have
a monitor at least that size which some
people do some people don't right and so
that's always been my contention that
whenever we're sending you a packet with
plans that you need to receive a paper
copy I'm I'm really referring more to
these sort of non permit tight hackus
and thoughts from the commissioners to
ensure that we're helping you do the
work that we're asking you to this will
probably come up again in August if we
have the next meeting with another
go at this against one request that I
would I don't have any problem with
electronic version I think it might be
helpful to know that it is that is it
that we won't have something show up in
the mail so we just know that's what
we'll have to work with and then they
then there's if it's a significant
problem for any bender there's time to
run down to City Hall it's necessary
absolutely and Commissioner Sandford
requested a paper copy and that was easy
to do and we would certainly be glad to
do that and I think the lesson learned
for me is to then ask Dominique when she
sends out an electronic only packet to
include it in the email rather than
relying on a memo that's inside the
packet okay thank you you have a
thoughts on them oh I like a need for
our copy senator okay all right thank
you Lou thank you Yukie
I think I'm up all right good evening
Development Commission Keith Niven
director of economic development
development services so the last couple
meetings we've had our consultant here
from Portland and they've been kind of
steam rolling through their ideas on
architecture and urban design and it
seemed like the best course of action
for this evening was to let them stay in
Portland and for us to have a
conversation at this step to make sure
we're all tracking on where this thing's
going what it feels like and if there's
reasons to deviate from that trajectory
this is a good time for us to identify
where we think maybe they're not quite
on target if that is indeed what we
might be thinking so for tonight I think
we're really talking it's not a
presentation it's conversation so Lucy
and I are here and we're going to talk
through kind of this this thing that's
coming our way
to make sure that by the time they spend
as much time as they're going to draft
up this document we don't look at and go
wait what is this I don't you know I
don't get how this works because at that
point it's not going to be a convenient
time to have that conversation so we're
going to do that we're going to
art that hopefully this evening and Lucy
changed toppings on this thing she
changed the name my presentation if I
could handle it you well currently I
couldn't so all right so here we go so
let's let's start so for me part of it
is is hit of what's the elevator speech
right so if somebody stops you on the
street and said hey you're talking about
architecture and urban design tell me
about that what is that so part of it is
starting at a very high level and
understanding what the consultant is
suggesting is basically what you see on
this slide I boiled it down to few
things here so two architectural styles
within Central Issaquah so they've
suggested what they're calling and
Issaquah style and then what they're
calling an urban core so two styles and
then we will unpack these later but this
is kind of the basic framework and then
within urban design they identified four
components context compatibility site
and building form and then how this
plays out through implementation is
through some worksheets okay and so
those were actually part of the packet
for this evening but we'll get into that
later this evening so here's the main
framework two different architectural
styles and four components of urban
design implemented through checklists
that what everybody understands that's
what I understand so hopefully if I'm
getting nods I'm going to move on all
right so within the architectural styles
they identified what they called an
Issaquah style and that can include
architecture from arts and crafts
craftsman northwest lodge western false
front and urban Grange so they
identified all these different styles
you can find in Issaquah now and they
felt like all these different styles
would be appropriate moving forward in
the area that they're calling basically
the non core because the core is the
second
bullet point here which is the red part
of central Issaquah on the zoning map so
and for that they identified urban
contemporary so these right now I mean
so I think some of these have actual
definable styles
I mean arts and crafts and craftsman and
Northwest Lodge you get to urban
contemporary and we can define that any
way we want to I think but we'll have
that conversation as we move forward
there's photographs that they've
included that we've seen in previous
presentations and we'll get down to
talking about some of those buildings
and I know there were some emails
associated with one particular building
we can talk about that may be what we
like what we don't like about it and and
where we think we might want to nudge
the consultants if we feel like there
might need to be some nudging so then
urban design so here they unpack those
four pieces of urban design context they
talk about the district which is the
neighborhood remember central is equai
is a compilation of ten different
neighborhoods and then hillsides natural
areas I think what they're envisioning
and they talked about that a little bit
last time like for example if you're
next to the creek you know maybe your
design should reflect the fact that
you've got this natural setting rather
than just rigidly be on the grid
compatibility talked about harmony and
contrast site we talked about block size
and access edges usable open space and
then building form this is really
talking about the different land use
types that we'll end up seeing within
central Issaquah so residential
commercial some industrial really that's
kind of the area over by the quarry and
then mixed-use which we're having a
whole conversation about alright so so
what the manual so they did give us
basically a ghost manual and so part of
it in the reason why I included this
page is to kind of just show everybody
who didn't get a copy of this what the
general format is going to look like so
as you get so that for
section and I didn't include that at
table of contents but when you get to
section 2 is architecture and in the
next section after that is urban design
and so as you get to each of these
sections they then start to unpack their
ideas a little bit further so as we
talked about for architecture there's
really being proposed they originally
had three and they ended up collapsing
the three down into two so as I
mentioned earlier you've got the urban
core and that's really kind of again
it's back to kind of the most intense
part of the zoning for central Issaquah
and then everything outside of the core
they're identifying as a clutch style
okay so basically those are our two
that's our segregation for our two
different architectural opportunities
all right so with in Issaquah style you
know they showed photos of arts and
crafts and craftsmen these photos were I
believe from the last presentation they
made northwest Lodge Western false front
and urban Grange which is kind of like
that one originally they started as
calling it industrial and then it kind
of morphed into urban Grange and then it
kind of worked its way just into the
user claw style component and then
moving to the core so this is the
building that I think we all got at
least a few of us guys emails on this is
what they're calling an example of urban
contemporary and part of this and I'm
going to take a minute just to pause
here and and they had other photos and
we can we can we can pull those
presentations up from previous meetings
of what they saw as contemporary
buildings because I think we're going to
want to spend some time talking about
maybe both of these two urban or
architectural styles here when we get to
the point where it feels like we want to
do that and you guys can stop me anytime
I don't know if I said that earlier but
I'm just kind of rolling so you guys
if whenever you want to stop and talk
stop and talk because this is really
intended to be mooring I guess that's a
question to do we want to do we want to
have chair go through the presentation
or cubes through the prism Jerry Jerry
today James good guy say if keys go
through the presentation and then open
up for public comment and then have
questions or do one question and one of
my thoughts was we could do that and we
don't necessarily have to close since
it's not a decision we're making tonight
we don't necessarily have to close the
public comment portion you like to ask
questions as we go or have them go
through all of it and then go through
I'm for asking questions that we go I
mean my understanding that's my personal
feel so well it's you know let's go
around I want everybody start an opinion
but one of my conservative questions if
we start question as we go will we get
too bogged down in one point or not that
down I do have a number of questions but
I would like to see the whole click
through first because King and Keith may
address them
as he goes yeah yeah - two of my
questions were already answered as Keith
was progressing so if we step to stick
to a typical format okay all right I I
think with the option to maybe interject
a nice clarifying question yeah yeah
Jerry doesn't mind Jerry sick and you
guys okay why well know that and then
we'll do open up for the public and then
as I said I'm open to when we get to our
questions and discussion even it's still
open to public if we feel like it anyway
okay awesome mr. Nibin all right so
we're rolling so here's what here's what
this did that and I don't want to focus
on the words because they're really just
meant as placeholders at the moment but
basically so when we get into actually
describing these there's going to be a
series of photographs and that's hard to
see on this my apologies but there's
actually places for photographs on the
right hand side but but basically what
they would do then
is as they start to talk about within
the Arts and Crafts style which is what
this page is intended to represent
there's conversation about massing and
there's going to be a guideline and
there's a description and then there's
going to be recommended recommended and
not recommended so there's there's
basically going to be and then if
there's some code that helps fortify
this particular guideline that's going
to be listed on this page as well so in
theory so let's assume that somebody
comes in with a project and they pick
arts and crafts all right they're in
there in the digit quad style area of
central Issaquah and as an applicant
they choose arts and crafts all right so
now we open up the manual and we go to
the arts and crafts pages and we start
to say okay so here's what it says that
project should look like so now in the
sudden we can start to say okay well
here's what's intended here's what the
applicant has provided and either it
does or doesn't match right and so this
is hopefully gets us to and we're going
to get to that point here shortly is
what does the checklist look like
because then you're basically there's
going to be a checklist and then you can
go back and look at you know because the
expectation that I have and I'm kind of
jumping to the end and then we'll jump
back because it's part of it is talking
about how these how these pages and how
this manual actually work but the way I
understand and Lucy if you have a
different expectation let me know but
you know as this comes in you know staff
will prepare their staff report as usual
and part of it will be to fill out the
checklist right and so the checklist
will be staffs impression of whether it
does or doesn't meet this this basically
code section because this will
ultimately be codified and so we'll give
our first take on it and then as you
guys then review the staff report and
review our assessment of whether it
meets or doesn't meet the architectural
guidelines and urban design guidelines
you know that'll be an opportunity for
some conversation about you know well
you guys checked yes we're you guys
check no and we thought it did let's
talk about that and so that's the way I
think this is intended to
work and it's going to be you know my
hope is once this eventually gets
populated with actual English and not
other languages that it'll be really
clear
you know because part of like as what we
talked about before is sometimes what's
really important to say this isn't going
to happen and we used we use the Atlas
blue as an example so if if ultimately
the community to size primary colors are
not appropriate for large buildings you
know what you'd say is not recommended
is you know not recommended primary
colors right and so or primary colors as
primary building facades you know maybe
you can use it as accents or in some
ways but not as maybe a primary wall
panel and so part of I think what we'll
get here when this ultimately gets
populated is the direction will need to
then do to plan review which is what the
goal is
so that's chapter 2 architectural
guidelines now we're into urban design
and urban design chapter 3 is is exactly
the same as chapter 2 so the page layout
is the same it's got the same kind of
guideline and description recommended
not rent recommended code provision and
then it's going to have photos on the
right-hand side so part of this is even
though we have two very distinct topics
putting it in a manual that kind of
works similarly is important for a tool
for us because I think it'll make it
easier and then here we are so this is
kind of the end so this so this is what
the checklist will look like ok so as
you get as you get into this you know we
will say okay
is this project in the in the core or
not in the core right and so if it's in
the core you know now you're down to
that bottom of the first I could use a
bounce the bottom of the first column
and we'd be filling out this part of the
checklist right on the on the
architecture side on the urban design
side then we'd have to fill out this
part and so they gave us a couple
example
so for example so this is now broken
into two different sheets I think for
readability so like on this one the
applicant chose Western false front
right so so then staff would go through
and identify where it complies and where
it doesn't and you know what could
potentially happen out here is if we put
a condition on it associated with either
its compliance or non-compliance that
condition would they get referenced here
so as you guys look at this you say uh
okay so color looks like it complies but
it looks like staff put condition I
guess it's a 1 or a 7 and 5 and so then
you guys could look at conditions one or
seven and five and say oh okay yeah
those are relating to color I get it and
now I can understand kind of a thought
process here it doesn't mean you have to
agree with it I mean that's still part
of the decision process is for that to
happen but this is the way this mechanic
is supposed to work and here's an
example of them doing the urban design
side so again it works the same way it's
just it's a checklist you go through it
and you you go through the design manual
and you basically make an assessment on
whether it's in compliance or not and if
it's not there's conditions that need to
apply and and that gets us to a point
where we would wrap up the staff report
and move it on to you guys so if that's
the way I think we see this working I
think that was my last slide so I think
at this point if you want to open up a
dialogue or if you would rather hear
from the community your choice mr. chair
listen so I just wanted to add two
things
our first goal tonight is to get
confirmation on the outline and the
structure but there is clearly some
further discussion of the styles and
feedback that seems to be desired and
necessary so that's just one that was
just sort of one informational piece the
second one is that what
you know there was a very long
presentation that they used last time to
start the preference conversation and
what we've done is called that down so
that all the slides that they showed for
the Issaquah style and all the slides
and information that they showed for the
urban core style or the urban
contemporary style are in two separate
slideshows so I don't know whether it
might be useful to look at some of those
just to understand more of their
thinking because I know there's been a
very strong reaction to the urban core
doesn't mean it would be changed by
seeing this slideshow but it would maybe
help us focus the is that the images is
that the description is it is it various
aspects is that the whole thing just
because right now we have one slide
that's representing something that was a
little more unpacked in the previous
presentation I think I think that'd be a
great idea to help the conversation so
you want to start with framework and
structure or you want to or I was
thinking bringing up those slides to
show some of the other is again we've
got that one shot that brought up a lot
of opinion and before we get in a lot of
discussion just about that maybe see
some of those other Sharon and Keith I I
think it would be it might be helpful it
would be helpful for for public
reference to just address the big code
say tell us what the code is in the
central political plan regarding maximum
height of a building in the Central
District we're planning because there's
a lot of confusion in the public about
how high a building can go into CIP and
I and it's clearly defined so right okay
so um thank you mr. Morgan for your
suggestion I have this open so we can
also look at images
in here but so there are right now can
we can you see that well enough what
this chart is showing that's so urban
core again is that sort of red zone the
central area the base height meaning the
height that you can go to without having
to do a development bonus action is 48p
the one caveat to that is if you have
retail on the ground floor or under
building parking that goes to 54 feet
okay so and that's true with I think all
of the height you can see it in the
footnote number 4 that you get to go to
54 if you have those either of the
retail or under building parking allows
the base height to go up so the urban
core is the most intense area and so
it's maximum height is 125 it with you
make these other actions related to open
space or affordable housing in the other
areas of central Issaquah the maximum
height is mostly 65 although in one area
it's 85 for clarification 125 might get
you most attend story building depending
on modulus yes they're building right
yeah okay
Oh can't you Randy good suggestion okay
okay so let's start with is a Klaus
style so the only these are the slides
they showed last time the only change I
made was to pull urban Grange into this
since it that does two districts have
been combined so I think this was one of
the guiding principles maybe from the
central is Claw plan so this shows these
were this is the map from last time so
the industrial style has been combined
with the Issaquah style so that you have
just the to urban core style in its
quest aisle so first is craftsman so
they used at kakari was one of their
examples so house like massing not more
than four stories so typically three
single use buildings craftsman much more
detailed tripartite meaning the three
levels base middle and top low pitch
roof deep these exposed rafters
the use of stone or River rot shingle
board-and-batten which is the sort of
this kind of treatment the kind of
window configuration oh I guess that was
our that was crafting - sorry
so arts and crafts from the early 19th
century again forced or no more than
four typically three you can use that
for mixed-use buildings so that would be
one of the distinctions steep pitched
roof certain English vernacular elements
casement windows and then a range of
materials such as stucco's shingle and
brick different kind of roof shapes and
materials being shown in this I assume
new building which is helpful to see
rather than just the traditional and
arched forms windows
so that's a two-story commercial version
and then this is another two-story one
with using shingles Multi pane windows
and brick this is a four story version
again with a steep roof certain
vernacular elements casement and sash
windows and then again similar range of
materials so now we're going to lodge
which was notable because you know the
first two were limited to three or four
storeys this was the one that they
identified that could be significantly
taller consistent with the character of
the building which included again
overhanging deep overhanging eaves a
symmetrical composition steep pitched
roofs prominent chimney certain kinds of
materials such as shingle and the
granite stone base double hung windows
Western false front again this one I
don't think had the height limitations
and this was an example from front
Street the false front comes from the
parapet which is shown here facade has
more ornamentation than the other sides
double hung windows collabora door wood
lap siding again wood cladding not a
mixture of materials clerestory windows
which are these windows above the main
window recessed doors multi-plane pane
storefront windows
and then with making the point that the
sides and rear of the building need a
higher quality than sometimes is used
when you focus just on a facade and then
this was a four-story example including
that tripartite massing but again wood
siding and lastly was the urban Grange
they did not provide as much information
in their presentation last year so it
was they were showing some industrial
buildings including the one that was in
your packet but it was not detailed at
the same level as the other four Styles
so that's its claw style
urban core so this was not specifically
urban core but I thought I put this in
here just as a image from their original
presentation this was more about the
street but as we're talking through it I
just wanted to put more images in that
might be useful as part of our
discussion that's the same slide these
are the same slide so so they were
looking at this relative to more dense
urban conditions shooting for timeless
character and respecting the natural
setting so they provided more
information they did with the other
style since there's only one style they
went into it with more detail so they've
looked at it from the form massing scale
materials and color that's five sorry so
they would there's a series of photos
annotated photos with on this so talking
about simple configurations strong
vertical upward elements rather than
horizontal elements and an emphasis on
the ground floor relative to the
pedestrian talking about segmenting the
street wall so that it's not as
monolithic that's broken into pieces and
creates a level of articulation again
base middle and top which is sometimes
called tripartite again simplified forms
and using a certain rhythm
these are all formed for massing up
looking at full block developments I
think that's their assumption in this
area so they were showing different ways
that blocks might be developed as part
of you know you're using the full block
you may not have a building that fills
the full block so that that was I think
the point of looking at this one and
that there aren't parking lots and how
the mid block connection might be
incorporated this is again a full block
but having a private courtyard with
structured parking this was using 3/4 of
the block with an existing building
remaining on the other quarter this one
does not have on-site parking and a
courtyard between the two buildings
this looks at holding down sort of the
corners of the block but having the
parking in the middle to separating and
serving both uses ground oriented
residential on the ground floor this was
looking for a residential project at
some of the components such as landscape
or privacy walls concrete base front
door and weather protection raising the
ground floor to make it more comfortable
potentially for the ground floor units
zero setback
how the corners could be emphasized and
while also incorporating public art
lobby in the middle of the building in
this case scale so they're thinking that
it is four or more stories with setbacks
along certain environmental areas
pedestrian corridors and open spaces so
this would be a five storey height
building after the in this example it's
after five storeys its setback as is
this one and they're assuming that that
technique would be used when you're they
say critical corridors but based on that
first slide I think they mean
environmentally sensitive areas and then
materials they are emphasizing brick and
wood in this case brick and concrete
talking about how hardiplank or party
board might be appropriate along with
metal cladding stucco wood
and then their recommendation for colors
with light or dark colors only
and that's the end of the bait thank you
Sam so I think we'll move to public
comment and if you when you come to the
microphone please give your name and
address for the record and feel free to
provide your input on both structure and
the framework that's provided and any of
the photos you saw and anything else
about what's been presented tonight
anyone care to speak
I'm I'm Steve Pereira 170 northeast I
would streak for about nine and a half
years so I guess I'd found a little
confusing when I was going to read
through the packet both because of lack
of pictures that I guess now learning we
included later in the lorem ipsum text
that I didn't understand Latin so I was
trying to follow and wasn't making sense
it makes more sense now so I guess a
couple thoughts one was it seems one of
the things that's within the scope is I
guess so a couple things one was it
seems in not in the height limit it
doesn't include the height for the
elevators which can be an additional
height so I think that needs to be part
of the consideration and your zoning for
how high you want the building to be in
that context I would like to say that
I'd like to see Development Commission
say maybe the height limit should be or
could be less than what it is today that
seems to be within the scope of this
consideration we look we're looking at
this is two pieces one is in Issaquah
style and a core style I meant I'm not
voy a fan of the core style buildings
that I've seen pictured here I would
like to see the Issaquah standard
applied
I guess throughout I would also like to
see maybe that Heights limit or the
height limit and I don't know if the
height limit talks just about number of
Heights or if we talk about the number
of floors that are allowed I don't I
know there's some zoning stuff that
talks about having the flexibility for
some versus the other so I think maybe
that could be part of the consideration
to looked at as far as what's done
what's not done again though I think if
you build it they will come and it seems
like we want to pride ourself on being
more than just another bellevue the core
style doesn't make sense to me so I
would encourage all of you to say that
doesn't mesh I would also like to look
at
set more define standards as far as if
you will the old town area or the
Issaquah style needs to follow some
specific set patterns that's it for now
great thank you very much
just a reminder fair by to the the
height information was provided for
informational purposes but the only
thing we're considering tonight are the
design guidelines the structure and the
framework for that and some of that but
we're not we won't be discussing or
getting into any of the height
limitations in the code right now so
so Connie Marsh native on squawk
actually I think you all could make
recommendations as to what you feel
about the height in the core area given
the architectural styles that are
recommended for the core because what
the consultants seem to be saying is we
can have sort of an Issaquah style if we
keep the buildings small as soon as you
get above a certain height then almost
by definition you have to go to a
different style of building that tends
to be what they pictured and in
listening to them I thought I heard them
say that that smaller in their opinion
because this is not part of their task
would be good for Issaquah we have met
our growth targets very close we don't
necessarily need as much density as we
thought we did when we wrote the central
physical plan and so I think that you
all can provide recommendations to the
City Council about the architectural fit
of your community given the consultants
consideration from what I have heard and
my personal feel about their
contemporary sort of contemporary course
style is it's very stark as compared to
our mountains and who we are and where
we are placed and that is the contrast
that fits so ill and I didn't see in
this the component parts that might
soften those larger buildings should
everyone decide that we need them and I
think that that is something that is
missing it's just that Hills behind with
those buildings will give us the same
strident contrast without the color that
we have with Alice I don't have a
particular problem with with their their
varying styles for the rest of of
Issaquah I like it I like their format I
think that that would make
there their system would make it easier
for staff to understand that the
architecture was fitting and give them
more tools and also give you all more of
a glimpse as to how the decision was
made to know that the architecture was
appropriate for the place when I first
read it I thought that you all were
going to be using that checklist which I
thought was going to be hard but now
that I know it's staff using the
checklist and then you are reviewing the
checklist for fit that seems to make
sense to me whether you the people who
are going to be using that feel like
that is enough and gives you enough
tools to say well you all have the
checklist but now we have to decide what
we could recommend within the code to
make it better and that is the part of
this presentation that I didn't
understand because what I see is as
you're up here and you're saying well we
don't really like it but we don't
necessarily have the tools to tell you
how to change it to something that we
like and and that still feels missing
okay thank you thank you Connie
Jenny Bingham 375 southeast sander
Street I lived there for 47 years so
I've seen many changes in Issaquah I to
agree that the architecture is not
appropriate for our beautiful signature
Street Front Street I believe that it's
just too square it doesn't have a
Western it doesn't have the country feel
it doesn't show them it doesn't show the
beauty of the mountains and who we are
and who we have been we are historical
we need a more historical element and I
don't know that our architect has caught
that in hearing us I'm not sure maybe if
they give us an opportunity to maybe get
into some books and we can present
something to you guys of what you'd like
to see I don't know the answer there but
if we're only stuck with these I'm
saddened I'm saddened for the history
I'm saddened for the just a concept and
what's going to happen to downtown
beautiful Issaquah take away all these
beautiful views as I said in on a next
door quote be beautiful for the top of
the mountain if the city was up on
Cougar Mountain let's say and they look
down in all these beautiful mountains
and I have a concern also with four
storeys we're all the people that are
going to have business in these four
storeys first of all were the people
that own it gonna Park and we're the
people that want to visit going to park
they going to build some monstrosity
huge parking garage it sticks up even
six or seven stories maybe they really
ought to think about closing front
street and making it a really neat area
where it's not a street anymore
it's a place where people can just come
around and have a town square I don't
know the answer but I do know these
designs are not meant for historical
Issaquah o LD e count thank you thank
you and just to clarify actually these
standards would not apply to Old Town so
this is the central is Squa plan so then
Front Street is falls under different
design standards
I know but this though but this area is
not covered by these guidelines it's a
different there's a different set of
design guidelines for Front Street and
sunset and all this just to make sure
the public's aware of that yeah I was
going to say point of order the the
design plans Relays urban is between
pretty much down Gilman to 900 that area
and then the the Issaquah style is
everything kind of wet Sammamish in
towards costco center isn't any
Sammamish right yeah but doesn't go in
doesn't come into downtown as the old
town area right right very any other
public comment questions okay
all right can we put the map back up of
the other data covers that might be good
reference points so I I operate a
business in Issaquah so I hope I'm
qualified to make comment absolutely I'm
just going to put on a cup so in case
anyone wants to
there we go yeah so my name is Debbie
Marlowe I own Marlowe sign jewelry in
the meadow shopping center right off of
Northwest Gilman I've owned that for two
years I actually live just on the border
of Renton in Issaquah but I'm coming
maybe a little bit after the fact on
some of these questions but as I listen
to the presentation from Keith I
wondered about for one thing what they
what the consultants would classify
Gilman Village per se what what category
that would fall into what they would
classify old you know old town it's a
cost or describe what may be what they
would classify that as I know that's a
separate set of guidelines and then I
also wonder why there's - why there's
it's across tile and then urban core and
then also industrial style like I kind
of get the industrial part but I'm kind
of not sure why there needs to be more
you know there's needs to be two
separate ones and I agree that the urban
core style feels really stark and really
cold and and really generic and I think
that it doesn't speak to the
family-friendly home community style
that is a quad thinks I think it's
trying to convey and continue to convey
I look at some of the things that
they've done I look at this Collins and
you know what category would they call
that the consultants what category does
that whole beautiful project up there
fall into like style-wise I saw a screen
of the Redmond area and some of that
with a lot of public space what looked
like a lot of walking in corridor work
that was really inviting and more retail
friendly ground-level friendly I think
that's really important for keeping
people here locally to enjoy shopping
here in Issaquah I think the parking
situation is going to get really
important it's already really important
but I think if transit comes forward and
we progress in what we're doing here
I think parking is going to be something
that we
- look at how that implies into the
building's themselves because I think it
all has to integrate even more so than
now and just the colors and the natural
feel I think if there can be a better
range I know you guys all experienced a
lot with the Atlas project but you know
there's there's definitely a color fit
that is more suiting for that and so
that's that's a really big component -
and just the ability to take what we
have especially in those in those areas
off of North West Gilman and make
something that's kind of cohesive out of
kind of a cluster of little bursts of
things it's not an easy it's not an easy
task because you have really a
conglomeration of no style I guess kind
of so not an easy not an easy task but
hopefully something can be done to you
know promote people staying in strolling
and being part of the community as a
whole and kind of bringing it bringing
it giving it some oneness so that's this
mic perspective so thank you thank you
very much the other public comment or
questions we heard none let's move the
Commissioner questions there's more more
of a comment we did sit through I think
about six hours of presentations on this
and they covered a great range of stuff
one of the big parts that I took away
from it was they're wanting to move
traffic around it's a quater way to open
up that whole Gilman area and change the
way that we possibly do business there
in that we making more of a walkable
shoppable section right where people
come too far can actually spend time
going up out down that road the way we
have our traffic patterns through
Issaquah right now aren't very good for
that there's too many cars going back
and forth the setbacks are pushed back
from the street so it's not really
street visible so that was one of the
things I took away from that
presentation is that one of the
suggestions are going to make and the
urban core area of my understanding the
QuickTime wrong was kind of a future
look as we start to grow the city as we
get the transit in and we have more
Karlis
kind of residents people who take the
train into work take the train back home
and I want to be able to walk to a
little bodega and go shopping and stuff
like that they want to live in dense
housing and not looking for having
lawnmowers and everything else so it's
the idea to be able to support those
residents as well that's kind of the
idea pata the urban core that was my
takeaway from it also just wanted to add
to your points about friendly retail
environment and walkable space and so on
if you happen to miss the last meeting
when the presentation occurred if you
could check out the May 3rd YouTube dev
comm meeting I think you'll see a lot of
information there that might make you
feel better
he's a lot of things that you were
saying we're points that exactly were
addressed by Crandall arambula Oh
questions on his presentation I mean it
was very well done but I just wanted
that there was one other point those but
what by what the citizens was the the
meeting area kind of a town center that
was another one of their core tenants
that they kept talking about there is no
real center of Issaquah yeah there's no
place where you can point to and say hey
there's that many pleasureable don't do
when something happens and that was the
idea between somewhere in that it's
across style to be able to build that
kind of community feel where you'd have
a central location go to a park or a
central landmark that states this is a
quad right and when news people show a
picture of Issaquah they show a picture
of that that kind of that kind of idea
questions so just a couple kind of
thoughts kind of starting on that kind
of applique approach to application of
this as a design standard so one of the
the challenges I think first is with
with this kind of urban core
contemporary style and we talked about
it Lucy talked about when they were here
they spent a lot of time kind of awesome
true what that was
I think because there's not a kind of
known architectural standard like
craftsman or arts and crafts that we're
going to have to in the design manual
have probably more exhaustive
explanation and description and graphics
and pictures and whatever what that is
this seems to be the place where there's
going to be the most tension I think I
tend to agree with some of the
description that we've heard so far some
of the images that they're showing
really what this kind of character may
be the broken force we got to talk more
about that piece so that that was one
kind of observation I think another one
is you've got the way it's set up it
seems a little bit bright line pick a
style and then you've got to follow that
style and there are going to be
instances where somebody is going to
want to blend some stuff here and how do
we go about doing that so we don't trap
people in a design corner that really
limits their creativity to present what
might be even more interesting solution
because they're the trapped within the
box of the specific style so in some
areas that may make sense them because
there is some compatibility like arts
and crafts and craftsman there's you
know features of trade back and forth it
might work that might be that's another
thing I think to think about it my guess
is some of this is stuff that staff is
already contemplating you mind do you
mind if we think of one out of time well
what I think about it and have some
discussion around some of that and allow
it to is that part of this is yeah not
what you guys put together but they put
together so in some ways you're
reporting back to them but you're also
interpreting for us and want to make
sure understand what we're doing but you
can I think bring some more flavor to it
so if you want to well one thing I just
I would like because I know we're
getting a lot of come when we're going I
think Commissioner Brandon's point was a
good one that the urban core is less
familiar you know it's not a known
architectural style and or not
favorite architectural style and so I
think where we have some of the
terminology or some of the pieces that
we're looking at up there it would be
helpful to say these we'd like these
words we don't like these images we like
these materials and we like these images
of them you know because I just I don't
want I want to provide them with I want
to help shape the conversation to move
it forward which I know is exactly what
the Commission is trying to do and so
sorting some of that so that we're not
just joined a baby out with the
bathwater and I know part of what you
were also doing mr. Morgan was looking
to see if some of the images that are
already in central it's a kwame service
as a way of providing some additional
guidance and that's a great thing too so
would you actually bring up the question
and there are some in the descriptions
that they've provided under 2.0 the
architecture or both the different
styles and then they're like for the
contemporary would you like and would
you like our feedback specifically on
some of that language then where we want
to see some of that taken out so we can
add it I think one of the things they
might want to be discussed for a brief
moment again is a framework level
conversation which and at some point at
least my recollection of their
presentation is they talked about the
core and they talked about taller
buildings you know right now without any
rules the the implication of most
architects hopefully none take issue
with this is is that they is that they
want to they want to create an ode to
themselves right and so as you as you
get these taller buildings and all of
them want to be the brightest building
in the neighborhood you know the result
of that is not something that that they
thought was a good outcome so so most of
the imagery that that they have for the
contemporary buildings I think they call
them the really
most of the buildings become background
buildings you know you want them to kind
of blend into the background and not be
something bright and shiny because if
you get too many bright and shiny things
then you've got Las Vegas right and so
part of this is okay so so you leave
those those key buildings that come in
and maybe it's the ones at the corner or
the ones that become have a more
community component to it where you let
the architecture of those actually do
something a little bit more dramatic but
the rest of the buildings become then
the backdrop for those so that was the
way I kind of understood their kind of
vision and if you think about cities
like London Paris and you you think
about the building's I mean there most
of the buildings you're kind of same
color you know because a lot of them
were built a long time ago when you know
they were using stone to build building
exteriors and and you know they're not
they're not really super exciting but
they make for a brilliant city so I
think part of this is is that that kind
of concept of alright if we're if we're
going to focus right now on on kind of
the core and that idea of this
contemporary is it okay for generally
some of the buildings to be fairly bland
looking you know and does that mean that
we're a bland city or does that mean
that they become the backdrop for the
mountains and the views and some of the
other things that are happening around
them and I think it's a great it's I
think we need to have that conversation
because I think it's very key to whether
we stay with you know again I think we
could we can we can leave it
contemporary and then just say what that
is and that can either be you know
something that's kind of bright colors
dark colors or something different but I
think that's a great you know as we look
for these pieces we might want to pull
and talk about that would definitely be
one I think we should talk about okay oh
I guess then then back to the question
would you like some some feedback on the
verbage that they do have here's that we
were saying Lucy about I meant because
I'm sorry that I can confuse things I
was thinking more related to the styles
on the slides
then the text that's in there because
I'm not sure how much of the text and
there is even final okay certainly you
know I think are not that far into the
weeds right I think it's the framework
are we covering the right things is the
structure of it and the tools that
they're going to provide going to be
useful to us I think that's the biggest
big thing then the second thing is are
we on the right track with the the
styles and if not looking at those two
different bundles of slides and saying
are the words right are the images right
you know and that I think that the
wordsmithing not that I wouldn't take
that in an email to share with them but
I think that's more what we'll be doing
when they give us the draft manual you
know I guess okay so the so I think the
first point commissioner Brennan brought
up was about getting more
Burbage around some of these styles and
so forth I was like we're particularly
the urban core style or whatever it
turns out to be call them right every
may not be the right board to put in
there yeah we've got yeah more of a
lightning rod and probably not the image
that we're trying to project so so but
tonight we won't go into to try to get
down into that level that's okay with
everybody with the knowledge that we do
want them to add more to that you know I
think we want them to add more pictures
or a little bit more but I thought that
the real idea an urban core was I think
slide number six or some like that where
it showed just those form massing
materials and like setback that's really
what they're talking about it's not the
picture of what it is but those are the
they need to match these kind of
standards to be that kind that doesn't
have to be contemporary does anything
else but needs require these parts to it
those that was my understanding of what
this whole thing is about it it's a
guideline not a description right it's
it's you want to make sure it has these
features and fits within this framework
to be considered that but not
necessarily have to look a certain way
it doesn't have to be contemporary it
could be a log cabin because it's wood
and you know
as long as it matches like that wooden
one they have I said along the creek it
could still be urban contemporary but
via a solid wood building but there was
some really nice ones they had I guess I
I guess my concern is that I'm beginning
to feel that a difference in what I
thought was the objective of the whole
drill which was bringing the consultant
to analyze the CIP and execution of the
CIP to date and clearly define what they
believe is weakness and execution and
make recommendations to the city about
how to address what we believe are
things that we're not satisfied with as
public staff DC whatever so far and I
personally think that they've done a
heck of a good job with that and what
we're seeing here tonight is what I'm
not clear on is we've got another
meeting coming up in August and that's
going to be where we're going to be
presented with their draft manual right
and what I heard believe I heard you say
earlier is that we don't want to be
going in and telling them we don't like
this whole section we don't like this so
we want the objective would be to get as
much agreement on the direction and some
and the end two key factors in that
before the draft manual goes to print
am I right so far okay then I would say
that the I I really like the idea of
having the definition that we've got so
far in terms because my understanding
again is that we want applicants to be
able to look at the amended plan and
right off the get-go say nope that
doesn't work for me so I either change
my application before I bring it to the
city staff for the first time for you to
look at or I'd say no I'm going to do it
in Redmond
that kind of clarity from the get-go
from people that want to build or do
something in Issaquah that's not there
now it's if they come in with an idea
and it generally fits the guidelines and
then it goes through a significant
process to identify what goes forward
from there
so is that is that correct or wrong I
think that we are moving to a more I
don't know whether I like this word but
I'll just throw it out there for now is
more prescriptive so the difference
between you know prescriptive standards
are ones that prescribe what you have to
do performance standards tell you how it
needs to work so there's more
flexibility and we the centralist clause
standards were more urban design focused
and less architectural focused so we're
changing that balance we are clearly
moving to a much more including a lot
more architectural information colors
materials styles and I think the
consultant has communicated that they
are a proponent of a more prescriptive
approach so that's the way we're going
so and I think you know what the way I'd
also described this Randy is you know
think about this as an evolution right
and I think what we're doing is we're
providing a finer grain on the
expectations that we as a community have
for what the applicants are bringing us
so you're I think you're right that if
when when we get this done that there
will be much more clarity from the
applicants perspective of what it would
take to get a permit from us which
avoids a lot of the kind of
back-and-forth and will ultimately lead
to I think a more efficient process for
staff so I think you know so that's what
I expect we'll get
well and that's why I think this is and
with all I'm sure we've all been the
subject of neighborhood questions
comments and so on and frankly this to
me is the way it's supposed to work we
had a plan that was developed with an
enormous amount of public input the CIP
and it went into execution phase and we
have come to say whoa wait a minute
plans still good we still like the
boundaries and so on and so forth but
we've got some things that clearly are
not going we didn't expect to get what
we got so now we're trying to prevent
the repetition of getting things that
we've got that we don't particularly
think are what we want more of and the
the I like the idea I really like the
idea of having standards and sticking to
them in terms of the design standards
the the massing and things like that
i I we have to be flexible to a certain
degree but in my opinion the benefit of
this process is there's going to be
flexibility but clearly defined rules
not cut lines for what what are the
limits so we don't get into AAS after
AAS after AAS because that's I believe
what we're getting is a kind of a public
wariness the ones that really get into
the weeds and the process and they're
seeing this and if we do this right in
my opinion will have less will have far
fewer requests for adjustment of
standards because the standards will be
clear there will be great on elected and
staff will say yep that's in keeping
with the standards we'll go forward
let me get back to recovered
Commissioner Burton's first point about
more verbage in your second point I
stopped the after that can you bring
that up again um
the idea of integration of more than one
architectural scale and how how would we
do that using these guidelines so we
talked to them about that because we
asked the same question I think it's a
great one to kind of explore you know is
it possible to merge two different
styles in a singular project and their
answer was yes that would actually make
it more interesting but not in a single
building that that was because what they
said is where you have multiple
buildings having different buildings in
different styles for instance if atlas
so they used Atlas as an example and
said so what if each of those three
buildings had a different architectural
style associated with it not just a
different color but actually a different
style and if you think about that
project and think about okay what if one
of the buildings was you know craftsman
and another was arts and crafts you know
it would make that look very different
and a much more kind of fine grained
architecture which I think this
community probably would have
appreciated right so does that mean then
when you get into the checklist you
actually have to fit your building has
to fit one of these styles say for is
across tile so um I you know we didn't
write this so right right right right
we're in turn ugly during orientation of
it my feeling my impression is if you're
doing a single building like you were
doing Vail you know which is a single
unified building you would pick one of
those five and that that building would
need to conform with that yeah and and
so you know that we're we like
flexibility because it's hard to
anticipate every situation that comes I
have to say the thought of being able to
mix and match and pull between them is a
little overwhelming to me given that
we're going to have at this point six
styles that we're going to have to
evaluate so I know that said
commissioner Brennan you know you may
have experience doing this in other
places and not I'm certainly open to
that I'm just kind of giving you my sort
of shoot-from-the-hip as a staff person
trying to imagine how I well I get that
I guess and and they're looking for
predictability - I mean right the dark
textual sure and you know and that's
what they said is that predictability
they think that is such a high priority
but I think it still would be good and
it's just balance and I understand
commissioner Harrison's point about we
want to have a standard and let's stick
to the standard that's what it is and
let's be prescriptive about that there
are some upsides to that but there are
also some downsides to that and so this
is balance that we're trying to find I
think what what you're describing would
be that would be the the starting place
where the predominant style is pick one
but there needs to be if somebody's
bringing something forward that is of
interest and we like it and you want to
find a path for them there needs to be a
path of them to follow so they don't get
trapped in the corner of code or the
standards it doesn't allow the city to
accomplish what might be a better
project and that staff may agree but you
just don't have a way to get them there
so the idea of kind of an off-ramp that
now that there's a predominant style but
but if they want to add some for
whatever reason and features are an
element that that isn't consistent if
there's a way to accomplish that I guess
that would be my goal commissioner are
you talking about things like parking
the whether it's underground or at that
level of variation at an example this is
more conceptual and less specific of an
example I'm just trying to try to make
sure that we do something that what
we're doing here isn't overly rigid for
the design community because you may end
up with something that you know is not
as good as it could be because of that
oh and one of the questions I had was
about retail restaurant services is that
if krispy kreme came to town and said
here's an iconic Krispy Kreme building
that we want to build in your city it
wouldn't fit I'd think about that
building and I don't see where it fits
in
any of these styles and so you would say
take that unique retail building style
and make it Arts and Crafts instead or
something and is that not you know now
come we want to have well I mean is a
fundamental question I agree that needs
to be addressed commissioner but I would
just say that I think we've got examples
again in the execution of the CIT we've
got at least one example that comes to
mind for me where this commission said
understanding corporate identity and the
bazillions of dollars the corporation's
putting and put into branding and
driving down the street to say oh there
it is I think we got a structure here
that is corporate but is absolutely well
I won't use absolutes but it's not has
nothing to do with north west or
Issaquah identity and and what it is is
their corporate brand and it's the same
is the same floor plan that you use in
Phoenix and everything else which is
what we've talked about a number I am
and I guess that's a good fundamental
question then would we want to you could
take a place a like Winthrop small town
that decided to go with a Western theme
and everything had to be that we want to
say these are the themes that have to
fit throughout the central is a quat
area and not allow for something that it
is outside that boss so I'm not just so
do you think that under these guidelines
Krispy Kreme would not be allowed in
urban core I I don't know the answer I
think it was built it think it's built
it as a claw style it's in this plus
style and it's in it's in that shopping
center so you could call it I mean so is
it old Grange does it meet that kind of
architecture I don't know we don't know
enough about it yes you know so so but
you know if that were to be in the core
I mean so part of it is that's a level
of detail we have to drill down to right
and you know so that a whole iconic
question back you know we kind of
stumbled over that I'm trying to get
iconic signs approved in the city that
was about five years ago we're due to
have that conversation it would be my
guess so you know so part of it is is
figuring out how you allow those those
and maybe it's more about function you
know and I guess that's an interesting
conversation that a planner might want
to have about architecture is do you
allow those buildings that have more of
a community-based function and obviously
not Krispy Kreme is not falling into
that can but but to have maybe a more
latitude with architecture because you
want those buildings to stand out in one
way or another so so a quick question
would if veil under under this new plan
if fail came in right in the heart of
the CIP and said we want to do a an arts
and crafts style they be allowed to do
it in the in a CIP I mean in the urban
design in the urban what is there now
aware as urban core so well that's where
they are no they're actually in the
they're in there's a cliff file okay so
if somebody came in in urban core I mean
this is I think this is maybe what we're
talking about here and said I want to do
an art something that is in Issaquah
style what we're saying is we don't
we're concerned about them not being
able to do that
I mean if everything else were equal
they can't do arts and crafts in urban
course all right
so I have two thoughts I'd put out there
one is one some I don't I apologized
can't remember who said it from the
public that is Klaw Islands because
we're having that conversation relative
to how do we I think you you said it and
tape is rolling slowly in my head and so
one of the things I and I think it
relates to what we're talking about with
central is quad is you know some of the
central is the cost and or
are applicable to the urban villages you
know they started with the urban
villages and then they evolved and have
folded into central as Klaus but
architectural II we have you know in our
conversation both internally and with
the communities have agreed know that we
the work we're doing now trying to come
up with architectural fit would not
apply to those urban villages because we
want to stink to neighborhoods and so
the the tools that we've used through
the urban design guidelines in his claw
Highlands will stay in place so that
they have their they have three
neighborhood types traditional townscape
house and garden cottage lane and those
are the three that will stay up there
along with their Architectural Review
Committee's to help maintain a distinct
neighborhood that feels like his
client's and doesn't feel like Central
is cloth or it doesn't feel like talus
breakdown or Old Town exactly and so I
think one of the questions for the
Commission may be in in asking that I
you know when you think about it
central it's cause like 900 acres that's
huge and so is it appropriate that it
has two areas is that the you know is it
essentially kind of like two
neighborhoods should you know in terms
of character and and I think what what
Crandall Rand Allah has said is that you
have this sort of central core which is
more dense more intense which makes
sense for some of the transit oriented
development that's coming so we're
trying to look for some kind of style
tools massing form etc that will fit in
Issaquah and make this distinct core and
I'm just laying this out I'm not saying
you shouldn't disagree with it and then
there is this second sort of district
area character that is the is quash dial
up some a little bit less intense it's a
a more historical and character so that
so that's one piece to think about you
know is to the right number of sort of
neighborhood types I think the other
piece that I would add when you're
talking about say Krispy Kreme the thing
that struck me and that I learned the
hard way up a disco Highlands is those
those kinds of businesses like Krispy
Kreme and many others are often called
credit tenants I yeah and if you look at
the they're the ones that come in with
these franchise packages that are very
particular
but as monolithic and specific as those
seem there's often a suburban one and an
urban one and we usually get the
suburban one which is the freestanding
building that has you know a whole bunch
of very specific architectural
parameters to it that is meant for
sitting in a parking lot but that's not
where we are anymore and as we move to
that more urban character those credit
tenants know how to operate in in a you
know if we allowed those kinds or if
those kinds of businesses were attracted
to Front Street they would know how to
go into those shops and that framework
they do the same thing in a mall and so
while I think being conscious and
respectful of the wide variety of
businesses that we have and we want in
the city part of what we're doing is
helping with that transition away from
the freestanding suburban building that
has to be wrapped in a very specific
skin to a tenant that goes into you know
a unit in a building and they have a
different package that conveys their
brand but doesn't require that they
control every single piece of the
building
oh well just there's a lot there's a lot
to consider here you know I go back to
your original question a of our goal
tonight does the structure work yes I
like the structure and where it's headed
I do I feel it's headed towards a
prescriptive path and I think we've
talked about that
and we all agree on that but then we've
asked well how can we interject some
flexibility in that and and I have some
thoughts around that because what I when
I look at that map I see these two
distinct cores and now especially since
we've eliminated one and there's really
just two and and I worry about the
overlap and I worry about literally the
the abrupt transition from one to the
next so one thought I have and I don't
know if this is way off the cuff is
allow the Issaquah style if we if we
drill in on those specific styles that
we like allow those styles to move into
the urban core potentially but do not
let the urban core move into the
Issaquah and I think it might help that
fabric seem a little more with blended
in appropriate and you feel the identity
throughout the city versus these abrupt
changes and I think it helps soften you
know these urban contemporary styles
that we see you know if you have a lot
of these you know in part this is a
function of zoning and height limits and
I'm not suggesting we have a hundred and
twenty five foot tall building with
shingles on it you know that just
doesn't work so I don't have all the
answers but I think it might provide
some overlap so I wonder if that
provides some flexibility in part two of
the flexibility I think a good designer
can react to those styles and interpret
and I think they can interpret for their
client and they can also put forth their
their their design you know an example
I'd use and I we do this all the time
where I work is is is we do a broad type
of styles we do contemporary and very
traditional stuff what we like the best
is
we call crafted modern and it has one
foot in the past but we're interpreting
it with very somewhat contemporary
spatial arrangements and contemporary
materiality but they're they're crafted
and they're considered you know so so
one just really basic example though
it's like you have the Craftsman style
but you have a client who you know is
looking for something a little more hip
or are the knee braces galvanized steel
is our would we allow like a galvanized
board-and-batten configuration or or a
metal trellis element that's stylized
specifically stylistically craftsman but
it but it has a little more of a
industrial edge to it so I think we can
provide some levity in there I don't
know when we drill down on all of that
and that's I guess a question for you is
is when do we get to that level of
fidelity because I feel like the next
one coming is a little too it's going to
represent that or no it is so so any
thoughts on that one leg so also gets
them from our new commissioner some
awesome echoes out they had exactly the
same process you did with missing the
Icicle style into the urban core and it
makes sense to me
I believe I'm one of the new generations
moving into the quest being only here a
couple years and I see the different
styles but I do think if we mix the two
together it will blend in more versus it
will stick out this Belleview if you
just leave the core style and also had a
different angle to it I come from Canada
and we have certain standards in Canada
where I don't know who exactly was
dealing with it but we had a huge
housing development and there was an
architect that was in charge of just the
colors to make sure that you don't put a
yellow house mix the green house and it
looks like Christmas the whole time so
thinking if we have some kind of a color
charge work if you're building a block
you're not going to put a black building
next to white but you're not just going
to do beige and it just goes to blend
together so I don't know how we get into
that but
that will be a great year just to have
some kind of a an assessment even if the
building is built now and the other one
is ten years later you still get to look
into it and be like hey we need to match
the color not match its order okay thank
you Richard yeah one question and a
couple of concerns I guess I was curious
about why the industrial style kind of
morphed down into a building form
instead of a style it looks like it's
been replaced by urban Grange but the
industrial idea went down into a
building form which I guess is a
building type I think that there was a
recognition that that area that they had
originally put it in was more diverse
that end of Gillman I think they were
trying to recognize that that is a
unique neighborhood this is service and
old 10th yeah right uh-oh highway toll
highway 10 and you know they were
originally showing the industrial
buildings which made sense for the
service area and for some of the things
but I don't think anyone thinks bones is
going to become an industrial style
building so I think they recognized that
although that is a unique district that
the diversity of different styles might
suit that neighborhood as well as the
rest of the area that they designated is
I I guess I wondered now we've gone from
three styles down to two and I wonder if
we just essentially renamed what we were
talking before an industrial urban range
if we'd be back to the three styles and
we wouldn't have the sense that they're
only too well and maybe I mean I'm
probably not doing a good job with my
nomenclature here so there are these two
districts want urban core and is Squa
Stella I think those shouldn't have
should probably show the new slide up
well ya know the older keep saying that
[Laughter]
but I'm also thinking that in some ways
maybe style isn't the right word I mean
maybe they are almost like district
districts yeah I mean and and districts
has its own challenges but I agree
something because then we have styles
below that and so to have styles at this
level of these two geographic areas and
then having another collection of styles
under that is a little redundant yeah
urban core collection it's a glove style
it's buckling
you know I like something like that
better because you're getting into my
second point which was the concern about
adding district to the end of the style
nomenclature in here and as we know
district has its own special meeting
inside the central is called plan right
so there seems to be kind of a
fundamental confusion to use that term
to me would we be talking about a style
district or would we be talking about
sip district so I think I think what
you're identifying is that we need you
know just like plants in a gene in the
family steven zucker I'm not even going
to get it right I'm going to embarrass
my biology teacher but that we need
something that's sort of predictable in
terms of how the hierarchy works so that
when we say I'm talking about a style or
a district or a geographic area or
whatever that we all know what we're
talking about so I think that's a good
point
okay thanks on that and then I guess my
last point had to do with what we were
talking about in terms of the real
content versus the structural discussion
here essentially we're looking at a
manual that's content free right now and
we're going to be seeing it I think one
more time end of maybe first week of
August and then after the other
Commission's have had a look at the
draft or at least the presentation is
that
just you know it seems it seems like you
know so if when we get to that ledge
when it seems like you guys are ready to
dig into content I mean I think what
we've done is we've given the
consultants like six weeks or something
six weeks I don't know to actually draft
this manual I don't know that it
necessarily has to come all at once so I
think the question is you know as you
guys at what I'm hearing is a census
let's let's get the details let's now
start to look at you know what it
actually says and start to think about
you know is it is it clear enough do we
agree with the direction and setting I
think what we can ask our consultant is
can we piecemeal it up and start to
bring pieces forward sooner than all at
once I'm kind of mixed about that but I
think the I think the point of that
which I hear a concern and and I can
certainly share that is that to review
the whole thing in one meaning seems
unrealistic so whether we're bringing
you you know section one and two and
then three and four or we're bringing
you the whole thing once twice you know
in a series of meetings it seems like
One Touch seems like not very many agree
agree there's something that yeah that
number of pages and yeah and and and
this is a big deal and I personally I'm
going to need I would request time to
review it and really understand it and
go back and read it maybe twice before
the next meeting you know so that yeah
well and and it may be that if you do
get the whole thing at once and we may
not be able to give it a lot in advance
mean more than our typical week it may
be that we're digesting it you know in
the same way we're looking at sort of
the higher level and then we're moving
down a level at the next meeting so that
you
just inherent we're not changing the
document necessarily but we're able to
digest it in a series of layers so let
me let me offer something as well
because this this timeline is my evil
construct so so and I'm more actually
interested in kind of getting it through
at a certain point in time this year but
what we haven't talked about is whether
or not you know we would be willing to
maybe have some extra meetings so once
we have the document if once you know I
agree with you Randy I think you're
going to need time to read it one think
about it maybe read it again say oh did
it really say that but then once that's
happened you know maybe we can meet you
know you know twice in two weeks or
something right and and to actually get
more touches because once the ball
starts rolling I think it'll actually go
pretty quickly I I just I guess my
concern is it's also summer and and you
know people are going on vacation
they're doing their heaven house guests
in and so on and and the the
opportunities to do the kind of
dedication to this are just fewer in the
summer because there's more there's more
stuff going on or and if we get it and
have a link to read it before the you
know before the definitive meeting maybe
maybe we can and maybe we can't
individually do that so I don't what I'm
what I don't think I'm requesting is
every effort be made to give the
development Commission sufficient time
to study it to the degree that it needs
to be studied so we can do our job you
know instead we've been talking a lot
about this balance between being
prescriptive and allowing flexibility
that's really where the art of writing
this is going to take place right so
that's really where we need to have some
time to work and tune this and I would
bet that there would be even one final
draft following when we see it next so
I'm open to multiple meetings so to
address it I don't know everybody else
let me get let me back up to keep us
moving along then to partly so I think
one thing we know we do want something
the other than style in
and for a nomenclature for that I'm
going to get back to Commissioner prices
question about allowing is a claw style
Issaquah styles all of those to go
throughout central asia claw would that
be acceptable to everybody in other
words you could do it in the urban core
if you wanted to yeah that's available
to me I like that idea
so with some control so there's a
transition in a lot of one construct
between different land uses is a
transition area we allow it to you allow
step things down you change the
architectural requirements in zoning
change there are a lot of different
pieces that influence what's going to
happen because in the urban core area it
allows for more density higher buildings
etc and as you move out it steps down
that density intensity will move down
and so the style the buildings can
change you don't want to do something
that's going to essentially promote
projects that don't take advantage of
what we want in the core and that is
that higher density use so I don't know
that I would like to say you can just
use it anywhere because I think that
becomes to patchwork II for me but it
seems like some ability in your on the
perimeters as you're transitioning from
one style or zone or district wherever
it ends up getting called to another
would make some sense I don't know how
that so let me draw something out
because your your sparking some ideas in
my head so as we can see there are
certain certain of the Issaquah styles
are limited in height in the urban core
there are more base not just the height
is different there are certain minimum
density requirements so inside the urban
core you have a minimum FA are 0.75
which is not that high
outside the urban core you only have
that if you have a three acre parcel or
larger if you have a residential project
in the urban core you have to have a
minimum of 36 dwelling units per acre
because that is consistent with how we
got the regional growth center and
transit so some of that will knock out
certain styles because you just won't be
able to it won't fit the parameters that
they are at least initially establishing
for this style I don't I don't know if
that solves the the problem you're
identifying Jennifer I agree and I hear
what you're saying I absolutely do and I
go back to um I think it's a function of
height ultimately we can't turn a
10-story building into a craftsman but
but then I back up a little bit here and
I think I think we've all identified
maybe maybe this was just me but I've
heard a lot of feedback from the
community that the urban contemporary is
very controversial and and so but I
asked well then what is the alternative
there you know as I look at this
building I think it's actually well
composed building it's of highly durable
materials it's a thoughtful pallet it's
a it's a great corner site its modulated
well it really activates the street it
does a lot of great things but I can
understand why it's unappealing but if
you compare this building to Alice I
think this is stars and stripes above
Alice so so but but but if then the
contemporary going back to my question
is is not the right question them or
answer them what is does that make sense
I just don't know so can I a little bit
so there are other there are other parts
of the code that influence the building
envelope so things that you ohm and just
described but also there are you've got
maximum Heights that are allowed and
then there are things like step backs at
certain height so you started so you
don't get the big box you're you create
something that's interesting down it
that kind of more pedestrian scale level
the first couple of stories and then you
do something that's a little bit
different as you as to building those up
and depending
hi it goes you maybe have other features
it or step backs or report changes that
are required and then you also have the
roof line and so the other other piece
that people are thinking about is your
your first experience is what is
happening on the ground level you want
to pay really close attention to that I
think the consultants have done a pretty
good job of speaking to that and talking
about some of those key elements one
piece that we're hearing about is that
architecture is not compatible with our
city our that skyline won't fit with the
surrounding mountain and green scape etc
so what are the other things that might
be fools that are in the code to kind of
influence what would be the kind of a
bigger picture image that is a quad
turns into based on architectural
standards but also the limitations or
requirements or envelope changes that
are in the land use code that are not
part of the design standard so that
there those are other tools that you
figure out how do you build that in the
overall land use code in addition to the
design design kapha I understand but is
the isn't the land use code Mazzoni
already pretty baked in a large degree
or this is just a function of design
review and isn't the modulation and
terracing you're talking about already
set there it exists in the code now but
I don't know if that's something that we
could look at as part of in combination
with trying to respond to the concerns
that we're hearing about is that our for
grabs and I think some of the community
I'm not talking so I'm still I guess I
guess what I would say is as part of
this moratorium work item I would say
not but what I would say is because
we're touching on this conversation
about building heights now views are
Iying views and views was definitely one
of the urban design pieces that the
consultants and I think we fought that
issue mr. Morgan on the Costco site plan
mr. Harrison so so I think we need some
clarity on views but other than views
building heights you know the the
envelope that's set by zoning is baked I
don't think this work product is
supposed to touch that but as a sidebar
and as an outcome if the Commission
wants to make a recommendation to the
council about overall building heights
now what you're getting as a product is
some of the architectural styles are
being recommended at maximum building
heights so you might look at that and
say okay well let's assume I have a six
story building if if the consultants
saying okay I can't use arts and crafts
and I can use you know half of the
architectural style that six storeys
well maybe six storeys is not a good
choice for us at the end of the day I
don't know so there's there some there's
some connectivity that you guys can make
I think if at the end of the day you
decide that the building heights that
are allowed now in central is a positive
problem I would raise that as a red flag
to the council but it should not
necessarily I don't know how it feeds
into ultimately this work product time
just answer because he's responded by
real quick so I don't know that I was
suggesting that we change it I was and
maybe I didn't say this very well but
there are other things that influence
the building envelope that are in the
code they're not the architectural style
so the step backs and the building
heights set in the code I'm not
suggesting that we go back and revisit
that I just think we need to think about
in combination the things that could
influence what the building will look
like in the end right it's not just what
we're seeing here in the design and in
one piece that I would add is Keith and
I were in here last night too
and one of the moratorium work plan
items parking was we were having our
first report out on that and there were
certainly other pieces that fell out of
that discussion
for instance parking enforcement shared
parking agreements there were several
things that were identified as maybe not
being in the right place to achieve what
we wanted and was
councils direction was these are the two
things that we've asked you to do please
track on those other things as part of a
list of amendments that would come next
year once we've gotten through the
moratorium work plan items so I think I
think not surprisingly keep us on point
with what the council is asking us to do
but it doesn't mean that we are not
tracking and benefiting from the things
that we're learning and observing while
going through this these work plan items
let me get back to the question again of
Issaquah style throughout we've gotten a
couple of different thoughts on that in
terms of limitation I mean everywhere
any other feedback on that there is
there a possibility of having it as a
Development Commission flexibility would
be one of those things if we did save
somebody came in and said I want to do a
one-story and maybe it won't work that
the minimum fer but I want to do a
one-story Craftsman style building on
this lot right in the middle and we
think no that's not appropriate
they'll have to change the urban okay
that wasn't like the up house but I was
thinking you know it what I might be the
perimeter of the urban core kind of I
this is my envisionment is it that the
center of the core kind of is the taller
part and as it goes out and comes back
out to the Issaquah style that kind of
grades down at the height of the
buildings so you know the craftsman but
that would get back to it's not the
codes not written that way like I know
before and you're right on the edge
you're still able to do that all
buildings well agree but I think this
may be what Commissioner price was
suggesting and it seems almost dictated
by reality to me that that if if on the
eastern side that's for example eastern
side of the Issaquah the boundary the
eastern boundary of urban core and
Issaquah style if you are an applicant
that wants to do a
Issaquah style the developer structure
half of the your building is on the
Issaquah style side and half is because
it that's not I guess what I really put
this informal question when the boundary
run if like East Germany and or East
Berlin and West Berlin if the boundary
goes Nehru do you have the option of
saying I know that 3/4 of my property is
in the urban core and only 1/4 of it is
in the US across tile can I do the whole
thing
it's across tile well cause that to me
would get us the what I agree of
flexibility and I think we should go
beyond that though in terms of thinking
about this not just the straddling but
even further in if somebody came in in
the middle there the court said I want
to do a craftsman-style building right
now it would say no you can't do that
yeah and do we want to say that well
where would we set that well I mean if
we didn't and well then do we do that
exactly we create a buffer we create a
transition zone so I mean I just because
there's many topics yeah I think what
you've you know to some extent we can
also give the consultant and the
opportunity to have heard this and as
part of implementing sort of their
vision overlaid with the comments
they're hearing it may be worthwhile to
let them take a shot at it based on the
conversation that you've had tonight
what Commissioner would it be would it
be worthwhile to get some clarity on
that issue just by going through this
yes yea or nay on the Commission about
whether or not it's how we feel as a
commission about allowing no no the mix
of stocks is this so you can provide the
feedback to them as a work item so let's
just go through let's say there are
three ideas here one would be leave it
the way it is the urban core is crossed
I'll separate one would be to have a
buffer zone let's say it would be to
Ben somehow of where you could bring in
this request I'll or third being that
you could do as a claw style anywhere
within the urban core I gave you those
three choices Richard we'd be open to
allowing Issaquah style within the core
not just its boundary as long as it
meets the far limits okay yes I think
I'll go with both boundary and adding
them throughout but they're all going we
have to chose two one
well I was going to throw something else
so why can't we say that you have a
contemporary building but meets a
Craftsman style you can mix the two it
doesn't need to be a black box that's
where I was going with saying that I
would like to have them inside I don't
want to see a 10-story building and I
want storage building next set I think
that's kind of ridiculous so that's our
thinking either go with a buffer or mix
the styles together so it still you have
contemporary look but it looks like you
said you're going to get your cake in
unit to give also okay okay well you
know I mean after throwing it out there
I thought we had some good deliberation
and and so I'm a little torn at this
point even though it was my idea III
guess then I will stick with number
three though but I would place the
condition we threw out throughout but
with the condition of it's a function of
height limit if there's a point where it
just doesn't work and and again as long
as it meets the far but if it meets the
far and somebody comes to you and they
want a two-story building and they want
to modulate a bunch of little row type
Craftsman houses or I guess maybe that's
not in that zone but what's to say that
isn't appropriate okay
I'm in favor of FA but I wouldn't call
it a buffer I'd call it a transition
zone that urban urban core is urban core
and Issaquah style is just a claw style
but there has to be or should they can't
be as stark checkpoint charlie kind of
thing it can it can there can be on the
borders of the two styles there can be
being favored a transitional area yeah
okay the transitional area as well
because I think because the urban core
requires more via the ground for what
retail and designed to have residential
above it so I want to make sure that
kind of stays that way we keep it dense
and for the purpose of what it's
supposed to be not mix in something that
won't fit into that lifestyle okay and a
little bit of everything smart your
keyboard yeah so I'm my preference is
that we define some sort of a transition
area where you can you know freely kind
of blends one styles to allow that
transition to happen but I want to and
reason for that for me is I thinking the
urban core you do want to have some kind
of continuity in the way it looks you
know want to mix it up too much but you
don't you don't but at the same time you
don't want to make everything look the
same so this back to this how do we
create create some predictability
through more prescriptive code but at
the same time where appropriate allow
some flexibility to create the interest
that we're looking for - and
compatibility with things that are going
on around it so I my preference is that
we have this transition area but there's
still an off-ramp option with some
discretion on the part of staff or
alternative adjustment standards or
something it allows for something unique
if it fits because one of the things
that we're thinking about a lot here is
we're thinking about projects by
themselves the projects are in a context
that what's going on around them so
sometimes given what's going on around
them warrant something that's maybe a
little bit different or unique it may
not fit exactly
with what the guidance said oh I'm still
in like I like the predictability part
but I think the and some continuity in
the standard in the core but some
ability and offering so I'm gonna I'll
three there's a different approach but
but I think it is that it is let's be
flexible in a transition area as far as
blending the styles I think that makes a
nice movement from one of the districts
to another zones or whatever call it and
then some off-ramp option with some
expression well great thank you I my
perspective the the vast majority the
feedback I think we've gotten in
projects coming in is it doesn't need
what is considered the Issaquah style in
these projects so I would be more open
to having it throughout being able to do
it throughout the district or the urban
area and I think given the minimum FA
are as a limitation that's going to
drive some of it and I think just from a
dollar perspective of somebody saying I
want to do a two-story building where I
could do six somebody also have outbid
them for that land and build six more
likely anyway but but that would be my
boat I think so
let's go to I cut you off yet another
somebody other points mr. Brennan slip
Dominion some of my other comment okay
shape um it would be at some point
helpful Commissioner price touched on it
about the outline and the structure and
the topics each of you fry to outline
and it would be helpful to understand
I realize it's highly schematic in in
some ways it's difficult until you see
it filled out what is there but if the
general organization and it's the cover
sheet on the memos that I gave gave you
if you if you think the overall
organization and topics makes sense for
soon mom if that how you think about the
checklist some of those very sort of
what less sexy but important piece but
to get some feedback on if you have but
they're doing their homework let me
bring up a couple of things share one is
the pen caught this before but the urban
core that they've added in that upper
portion that is actually part of the
East Lake District and outside of the
urban core and I looked at that and I
wondered why are we put in urban core
style in a non urban core area and so
I'd like them to reconsider and I don't
know what other commissioners think
about whether that should be in Issaquah
style location it's already got some
other buildings in there as it is but
there are some large parcels there that
could be redeveloped and they are an
entryway from the north part the
northern entry into the city would we
want to see those as more Issaquah style
or urban does everyone understand the
area talking about northern 56th and
wedge up there Rylander part of the
thinking of there ways to meet density
targets in East Lake um I don't mate I
think it may be more what commissioner
Morgan brought up is that the office
buildings that are there are probably
more urban core style than they are the
Iskra right subsets that with a
provision though the understanding that
the buildings that really are like that
are towards the back right
Microsoft Siemens building the same as
buildings are more towards the front but
those are more likely to be redeveloped
given their density
it's a one's it about urban core the
Microsoft buildings that are further
back at Costco now is a couple of them
you don't see from East Lake Sammamish
but the FedEx facility would likely be
redeveloped or the seamen site human
site was planned for apartments I think
before the moratorium or they were
looking at that anyway so that area
would we well if the majority of the
Commission was suggesting we blend all
the styles are using anywhere you want
so why
man oh no I think we're talking about we
could use Issaquah style wherever but
not urban core wherever yeah yeah nurse
de Boer never finds its way into inside
right so you're so pissed bringing that
back is across time see you guys in
Washington points well when when the
consultants presented I suggested that I
think that's another gateway and so if
that's if that's a gateway and I feel
like it's a transition zone you're
coming off of this highly residential
you know area or heart with the park
into what I consider one of the gateways
into the city is it is it more
appropriate to be the equesticle that
yeah just shooting from the hip but the
precedent that occurs there you know are
some pretty substantial structures
already and would that makes and they're
fairly but they wouldn't have to be torn
down certainly and they're fairly off
set back from the roadway - well plus if
you start to think about so if if
Siemens and space labs and FedEx
redevelop and redeveloped in mortgage
akua's style so now what's that
neighborhood feel like right I mean
those Microsoft buildings become kind of
the backdrop I don't know I mean they'll
be their own micro urban core yeah
historic urban core it would be part of
your transition zone exactly yeah
sister pre-developed is apartment
buildings wouldn't that be five storey
apartment buildings again so does we'll
stay in the urban core that's a little
bit it's not urban core zoning out there
it's in the East Lake area if you've got
the map Lucy to show it's the it's
purple up there well I am recording
messager there yeah but good so here in
this area that we're talking about which
is making to use India on the other
methods or open court and so it's all
been horse style so they're here we're
now identifying some of our nomenclature
challenges but mixed use allows a height
it so it's the second bit most dense
zones and so that it may be that because
you know some of these they're bigger
parcels
kind of along here and then up in the
area that they identified but a lot of
it along East Lake Sammamish into 21st
or smart small parcels and maybe that
was part of the driver I I don't I don't
know yeah and I guess in my mind I you
know seeing the urban core south of 56 I
mean the urban core in the zoning was
drawn specifically because that's where
the density and and if we say we want to
take that look and move it out towards a
state park into the north end of that
city I just don't see the reason for
that I couldn't agree more and I glad
you brought that up because I I just
really would like an assistant but to
protect the State Park for what it's
worth I mean the buildings are they're
the ones that were talking about but I
agree it seems to me like it makes more
sense particularly with the values you
know the values of our community that
we're talking about to to keep you put
turn it back into this across tile for
that for that wedge there just because
it's it's of the proximity to the to the
park either thought sudden-like
I do have another question if you don't
mind the on the check list I wondered
the where it says applies yes or no and
so let's say you decided you had a
project that was Arts and Crafts style
and that would it be let's see on the
architecture I guess there so if you
said okay this is an Arts and Crafts
style applied there's a no massing scale
materials color and it seemed like those
would apply to everything would that
always be checked done if I asked that
question
okay and I'm not sure I quite remember
the answer so I don't I don't care that
I don't remember why you wouldn't have
them all apply I guess it would the only
thing I can think is that if you only
are doing as the example shows the
Western floss front then then for all
the rest of these you would be checking
not applies just to be clear that this
is the section you're focused on right
okay I don't know if that okay that
sounds like you had the time I apologize
I don't understand your question I just
don't think that the first the first two
questions or yes or no does this apply
now and if you are Western false front
style if they decide you to fit in that
category and all for those things apply
thank you saying they apply to each then
you have one checkboxes to what your
front style applies yes or no that's it
and then the rest okay okay yeah and
then does it meet the standard silver
depends on how much you like to check
boxes well but but it could it could it
be that the applicant well you've got
that you've got the option for us to say
yes or no I mean but if your Western
falls friend if you've decided that's
what it is yeah and we heard that it's
you choose one style right and all for
those things and same for also one night
so it could kind of work there was an
apartment building we just
we approved a little while ago had like
multiple fronts like at little town
houses they came off if I'm I can't
remember their neighbor off top my head
but if they want to do one craftsman in
the next shut out one they make that one
in arts and crafts in the next one
another arts and crafts the next one a
craftsman then it could still fit within
the structure because it happened in in
multi two or three of these one I
actually think Randy hit it on the head
and and I may be wrong but I think I
think the actual way this is supposed to
work is the applicant fills out the
checklist and has to identify whether
they believe it applies or doesn't apply
right so they go ahead so they check
applies on all those and then staff
comes in and says does it comply or not
right and I think like what but but I
think that the fallacy with that is the
point that commissioner Morgan made
which is if you're picking western false
front than all of those applies and and
right now it's giving the implication to
the applicant that you could say well I
pick massing scale and materials but I
don't pick color okay and that that
would not be the right message to send
at least as we're understanding so so I
think I think the light just went on are
you done so commissioner Morgan so
you're saying there shouldn't be an
applies for a style but there should be
a complies for each of those well let me
- I think someone said this which is for
Western false front you would check that
that's the one yes but you're picking
that style so you would have one that
would say yes I picked that one and you
might need that for each one of them
because for instance if you had three
buildings one could be Western one could
be Arts and Crafts one could be Grange
and then then you would have all of this
because then you would be talking about
whether the staff and then the
Commission would be saying yes you've
complied or not complied and what if you
know that there are conditions that can
fix that yeah
okay okay smells like you're already
asking the question for us oh good well
that's alright I you guys have to be
able to use this as much as I do
so I want to make sure together yeah
okay so other questions things I think
the I guess one of the questions I did
have in got back to sort of style and
stuff is retail retail uses don't seem
to be covered in many of these unless
you're going to say if you have a retail
use it has to be Arts and Crafts style
or you know most of the examples they
show or of office buildings or
residential well a nice recruit and you
know the interesting point about that
was one of the notes I made it and I
think Commissioner Bach said it which is
we probably need more pictures so for
instance if you're going to have Western
storefront you probably need it as a
single use building we're the ones that
are suitable for mixed juice or maybe a
variety of uses what does that look like
as an industrial building what does that
look like as a mixed-use building what
does that look like as a retail building
because and I think first of all I think
it helps all of us implement it it helps
us make sure that we understand what
that means as we're agreeing to these
things for all those uses yes exactly
yeah so if given that in most of the
zones most juices are allowed then we
should probably have depictions of that
so that we understand if there are
breakouts for retail you know for
instance you know windows they've said
some things about windows that might be
challenging for some retail uses though
and the in a relation to that I guess is
the old highway 10 district and it seems
to me what they've it doesn't seem to
cover that well because if somebody came
along and said I want to do something
that would match
xxx facility whatever I want to put in a
very unique facility we're saying you
have to fit one of these styles maybe
something that doesn't come from fifties
are couture you know 50s or 60s highway
architecture and how would we address
that within these standards
that's a good question correct well I
was just going to say but you might not
you might that could be intentional you
could say xxx should always be unique
and iconic and and I'm just throwing
this out for discussion that it should
be unique and iconic and we don't want
anymore googy 1950's kind of
architecture along that but I think when
we you know when you look at the
description of old highway 10 that
district specifically is intended I
think for a restaurant retail
entertainment cultural type of area that
you could get some very think unique
buildings in and I have a heart you know
you could fit them in unsure but know
that if you put Arts and Crafts in that
area it fits with the idea of the vision
of the district well it goes back to one
thing I forgot to ask in terms of the
structure and I didn't see it outlined
here's is their mechanism for departures
and you know we would have to be clear
on what those departures are framework
you know if then but is that mechanism
built into this at all and could it be
so right I don't know is the short
answer it is not part of the outline it
is part of the central is quest
standards now I mean one of the things
that we've identified is there are a
bundle of stuff that's being pulled out
of central Issaquah and into this manual
and and the way we think about those are
some of the most important things that
we see through community discussion in
terms of ensuring that we're getting the
community and achieving the vision that
was intended by central is Squa and then
there's all the other stuff that staff
use to review and
ensure that we get projects that fit in
and address certain things so we're
going to have to go back and do some
stuff to the rest of centralist claw and
I don't know whether the aass are going
to only apply to the stuff in that book
and not to the manual or the aass
applied to the whole thing I mean I I
think that's a spot-on question you know
commissioner Harrison has I think
identified his perspective and so the
question you know we have that question
outstanding as we move forward and it's
a good one for the consultant to help us
understand what how they were thinking
that would work let's just be clear so
in that district if some if I can't some
corporate I mean it sounds contradicts
what I said earlier but if a drive-in
wanted to go in literally across the
street or next to xxx I Drive what I
think is sonic or one of those kinds of
things that would with their red you
know whatever it is they're their brand
image you're saying that but what we're
seeing here is that under the new
guidelines they think they have to pick
arts and crafts whatever and if they if
they don't want to do that then stop
right I mean is that is that basically
what we're sequester but I think that's
what we're saying well it
okay so isn't that what we are trying to
get here is more control as I said
earlier the ability to say just doesn't
fit oh but that I mean that gets back to
a question getting the vision for that
district per se was a chewing yeah
what's that originally I mean what it is
now right
yeah yeah yeah that industrial bringing
and service jobs and so on well it's
it's it can go back to the discussion
but I mean it was meant to the idea of
cultural it's entertaining restaurants
entertainment those kind of things as
you say if somebody came in and said
we've got this design as something that
would fit with a style of triple action
and we might say sorry it doesn't fit is
that the outcome we want to have I agree
that's that's the question and is there
a mechanism for could there be a
mechanism for addressing that right
right now well and if you were going to
have adjustments would be that be the
kind of adjustment that you would want
yeah I know most retailers especially
like the in announcement as Krispy
Kremes and even the Lowe's they do take
the architectural standards of the local
community into a exteriors into account
so their interiors might be very fixed
in the rigid and the way to do it their
exterior is they just wanna make sure
that accent colors and their signage so
I think they can fit I think every one
of those could fit into an
arts-and-crafts with the stucco outsides
or whatever else but as long as I get
able get their accent colors and their
signage they're going to be happy so oh
I guess my perspective it's probably
reiterating what I've already said but
the idea of having a more prescriptive
starting place I think helps us I think
it's been a little bit to kind of
obscure yeah too much too much
discretion which makes it really hard
from a staff perspective to figure out
what when can I say no here so we need
to we need to build standards both the
code and again these design standards
that provide more specificity I think
that's important but the idea of
departures is something you can't you've
got to have that otherwise you miss
opportunities the challenge with that
though is figuring out when is a
departure appropriate even considering a
departure appropriate so I think that's
something that they need
explore a little bit about well where
are those kind of levels are thresholds
that we might want to set in the code
that say we have a departure that's
administrative and it's in this range
and if it's something that's a more
significant departure maybe it's got to
come here and it allows a public there's
a much more intense public process that
goes with that so I I think that's
something we actually need to explore a
little bit more in the construct of the
design enters and for guidelines and the
the code itself yeah okay Commissioner
can I just ask a quick question you two
gentlemen have been on the Commission
longer than any any of us do you
remember an instance where the
development Commission voted not to
recommend to the City Council not
approve it has that ever happened not
approve a project location oh yeah
really I think they might have been a
change like this errors that happened on
Mike no it was I know when Costco wanted
to oh is the standards to allow them to
do a hotel next to the freeway that
didn't fit the wedding-cake zoning and I
don't think we where the approval
Authority I think we're recommending
maybe well on the master site plan right
master site plan you are site
development permits and we're not really
using master site plans I think in
central is club but you know I think
part of this would just be an
observation from the inside we would be
pretty clear you know I mean part of the
benefit for us working as closely as we
do with you is that we try and channel
the Commission's that we go in front of
and communicate not only what the code
says but what we think are your values
your likely perspectives to try and
position them for success and then you
know that gives the Commission then an
opportunity to figure out if there are
tweaks and massaging that's necessary on
those more discretionary pieces and so
I'm not sure any project I've brought to
a Commission's ever been denied for that
reason now they've occasionally been
appealed but I think that we would hope
that we weren't bringing things to you
that we didn't think were approvable I
don't mean to imply that that you know
we would override staff recommendation
well your work you got but but what I'm
saying is the staff at staff has done
everything that they've everything that
they could to make the best result of a
given application but then when it comes
here and you have done your job but we
look at it and say golly you know is
that mechanism has it ever been put into
effect and in you look I mean part of
the process is they come here we provide
there are elements of a project denying
a project in its entirety is a hard
thing to do if they're reading that's
that's inside the frame and that's why
we're trying to get more better but our
scope of responsibility is does it meet
the design criteria that's in the code
is it compatible with the design
standard and there are many instances
where we've made significant required
them to make some significant changes to
the project that was originally proposed
that we just didn't think was yeah or
really along I mean at this point post
it may be part of that approval standard
if we did have something where there
could be some adjustments made may be
able to require community conference
bring that back up to say if you want to
go through that it's going to require
more community input and more input at
the beginning in you normally would if
you want to have something different
than what's working that's and I was
yeah yeah I I just think that's good to
be more attendance meetings the you know
more public participation if they have
if they have it gives them the format to
do it and maybe something that the
public loves and will really like to see
but it doesn't fit within them and it
could be a community building could be a
public building it and and you know the
to build on something one of the
commissioners said I apologize I don't
remember which one you know right now
there that adjustment of standards
process is set up where there are
certain things that are specifically
precluded from being adjusted and then
and right now it is at the applicants
discretion whether they're AAS is done
ahead of time or bundled with their
application and so there might you know
what you're saying is that there are
certain things that if if they rise to a
certain level would need to be part of
an applicator come to the the AAS on its
own comes to you because it's an
administrative permit but that kind of
adjustment would need a community
conversation or B be a part of the SDP
or whatever application I think the
challenge is always the criteria right
so that there are it's a predictable
clear path for an applicant staff and
Commission in public to understand what
can and should be approved than what can
and will be denied and I would suggest
that we would want as you mentioned if
maybe they maybe that hearing is early
because you don't want something to go
to all the work and staff do all the
work oh all the way down that trail and
get the inside by the way everything
else been approved are you okay with
this I could look in this want to find
out that right away
so that might indicate that peeling that
apart and having it as a separate
activity that could come earlier yeah
okay that makes sense so just a
different topic real quick just feedback
on the question I was asked about the
structure of and trying to respect that
staff is here again tonight has probably
been a long week and I guess they want
to get home pretty quick so that the
feedback on I think that the way it's
outlined is good I think it works really
well the way it's blocked out by you
know looking at urban design
requirements architectural requirements
etc the design standards I also like the
recommended not recommended most of the
time you say well you know this is
what's required but the idea in the
standards of saying here's some examples
of what we like to see and here's some
stuff like bevel wood siding you know is
not something we want in the urban core
and I know so are not recommended that
kind of stuff I think that that's kind
of helpful then you kind of said yes we
like it and we don't like it boundaries
and then people try to work in the
middle I think that's really good and
then that I think the checklist is is
really a good tool for us I think that's
something we'll probably want to maybe
even play with a little bit more as the
details start to build in here on what
level of detail you want it would help
us in our deliberation and final
decision-making because we've had
different reviews a couple of different
tools over the years and some of them
over the green sheets and some of them
worked and better than others and and
this I like better than the green sheets
that we've used in the past but I think
some there may be some more we want to
put in there I'm not quite sure what
that is yet that's my yeah yeah I mean I
think that you know one of the questions
is going to be how this is a living
document you know some pieces like the
the checklist we may tweak every quarter
and until we get it figured out how it
works well for all the different users
some things we may you know be fine with
for five
for ten years and then we want you know
that that we're done with that style or
where we've taking a different approach
on views or access or one of those other
elements and so the question is how how
do we how are we able to keep that a
living doc you know totally agreeing as
I thought son I think you're doing a
great job of it that's what I've been
saying earlier this this whole process
is keeping this a living document I'm in
a central Issaquah plan that's what
we're doing here where we've started
executed we're going huh so we're
pulling the horses reins and saying
let's slow down a little bit here and
take a look at this and I that's one of
things that's most encouraging to me
about this whole process is that it it
is a living democratic process that has
to be put out there and discussed openly
and records kept and everything outside
I would agree very much just even on
especially this design standards as
we're coming up with this new that we
don't wait five years that as you say
maybe if every quarter we come back
after a couple of these projects and we
have another meeting to talk about what
worked what didn't and yeah I think just
by the fact that it's a prescriptive
allows it to long you can put things in
and take well you know after we see our
first hearty panel building we make it's
a rule that this one a practical
question about maintenance is the
deliverable defined as the source file
do we have the source files when this is
done not just PDF or copies on hard copy
so that we can maintain it or is the
assumption that the consultant would
maintain the document going forward I
assume we own the product when it's done
well and and so that the miracle of
technology is that you know even PDFs
are editable these days thankfully so
yes I would agree for though
okay yeah Randi will not be doing that
for what the one thing I really like
about the Stockman secondo almost a
gating factor for people want to develop
in Issaquah so they can make that
decision early on and decide whether or
not it makes sense for them I that will
help us a lot in to save your your time
as well because someone can look at this
know what they can do rather than happen
to throw everything at the wall and you
guys say yes or no and work with them
for six months and I said walk away
anyway well historically I I would say
you know one of the things that I'm
learning is we're used to working with a
master developer who got to choose who
they sold their land to got to choose
who their architect was had their own
architectural review committee and that
is not something that you have in the
rest of the city and so the tools that
we're developing now makes sense for a
sort of different configuration that
doesn't have that added layer you know
they could be capricious we cannot be
capricious and so I think some of these
tools recognize the different
circumstances in which this has happened
yeah I'd like to I know it's late but
I'd like to have a discussion about the
urban core style it's certainly been
brought up in a lot of public input
about that specifically people's
thoughts on that one word
dark that's what we want to avoid look
at someone one word okay just no I mean
if it's Rob's dark is the issue another
your more words there you just what you
said you want to go long I go back to
the goals and what is the goal is it to
establish an identity for his o'clock
and and so it's a very subjective
question in this and so is that our idea
I don't know
I am I when I think of its Clyde don't
necessarily think of that but but I
think you need that type of building you
know and I think there's things you can
do that that in soften it you know you
talked about some of it it's terracing
modulation the cornices those things
start to bring the identity and then
it's all about materials I think to
establish identity I don't know if I'm
helping don't it and trigger a question
but because that's over the core as well
right and that you know it's within it
and it's much more long lines of what we
like in a city is it I mean I am I'm not
questioning what you're saying I'm just
interested in a all because it's also
I'm guessing that if you put this out
for more public comment that people
would react to this more positively than
to the other massive building yeah and I
think it allows room for creative
expression I don't think that as a type
it's necessarily a problem but the main
elements I think that Crandall arambula
we're talking about can be expressed in
a number of different ways maybe they
have some other images that might be
closer to what we could get excited
about I think I think that mr. Pryce's
comment about what is the image in
broader kind of statements that we want
is a quad to comment it is what it is
right now and a lot of people will argue
that we like what it is we don't want it
to change well it's going to change so
our job is to guide that change and try
to create a future that is kind of a
preferred future into it and trying to
be and articulate what that looks like
sometimes hard to do but it it kind of
this
preamble about you know it could even be
to this part of the design standards
about what it is a look and feel
character that we're trying to create
and the bigger picture is maybe
something that we could think about and
I don't the sultan's can assist with
doing that that's important I also you
know we also want to prevent you know a
lot of reflective glass and hard edges
and that because that's not the image
it's not really compatible with the
natural features that are going on
around is a quad natural materials are
probably something we really want to
promote so you're looking at wood or
with tone materials you know use of
stone brick those sorts of materials
that are more compatible with it with
kind of a natural environment and less
about downtown Seattle you know rootin
for Bellevue reflective glass and hard
steel and things like that
but at the same time you want to have
some edginess to now because that's what
makes it more interesting to be but
that's the hard part to describe and
then actually friends link that into
codes and design standards that actually
make it happen and that's where you know
this about the living document yes we're
going to keep moving ahead and we'll see
what but this new change drives in a way
of future development I think that
broader description of the image of is a
flower trying to create might help um -
organ that image that you emailed where
was that in central squad do you
remember so the there's a few of them so
if you have the plan if you can pull it
up for the design standards different to
vary that there was one on the very
first page so this is the whole
centralist law standards is that the the
SIDS yeah yeah if you go to the very
first page I think oh I'm sorry
you meant to literally the very first
page I thought you meant
maybe I was looking at a different
document well you know there may be a
covered document that isn't it here I
don't let me see if I go down I think I
know which one you're talking about and
I didn't realize that wasn't on the
cover one of them I think is in the
district visions Tibbets Valley section
ray I'm not sure we I don't have the
central his club plan here right now um
you get it off our web page movie which
wedge web page Odyssey web page under
bellman sir
no can go to plan that's good
[Applause]
[Music]
each I have a I have a hard copy that is
the one
Commissioner Morgan yes so that was what
I think that was on the first page so
and then that we've got a couple more
later me part of it when you look at the
images that came in the plan that was
adopted in 2012 like a tall building on
the right and some of the others it's
got on the taller buildings it's got
some variated modulated bases and then
step back taller buildings with
balconies on almost all month all of
them I think there's a good example on
page 20 there I think that was one of
the photos that you sent no thank you
at one hour I grab those photos like the
the two photos on the right there so I
think this is this is Vancouver and I
have a lot of pictures of this project
okay
so so this all the pictures we saw the
public is seen in the plan have not been
as I would agree with mr. Harrison's
comment of a stark solid form and I
understand what the architect was
talking about well the building should
be fairly plain and it should be taking
place at the pedestrian level but
personally I don't think the feedback
we've gotten from the public would
support that there I think I think we
would want buildings that have or
balconies more modulation to them more
interesting than at the upper levels as
well as the street level even in urban
area it's just my opinion okay so I
think it needs to be balanced out with
some humdrum buildings and then you have
some spec you know special abilities
otherwise you have too much special
it's--there's looking like a sprinkles
falling off of a cupcake on your desk
right it's just a hole but it looks all
round like a good deal individually they
look great but as a whole it's like a
mess right until I see the building the
the second picture down on the right the
the taller building there I think would
be too special if you have buildings
that all look like that it would be yeah
I think it does look a little yeah a
little too mystical exhausting I I know
that you said that we're not here to
talk about height and I get it but I
just don't see how that building in the
second picture at that height I'm just
not I'm just not talking about the the
architecture of the method the mass of
the building just the height I just
don't see how a hundred and twenty five
foot ten story building I mean I know
it's in the code I know it but seeing
the numbers
125 feet 10 stories is one thing but
seeing that is another I I just don't
think that's compatible I think I don't
know where you could play a 10 story
building in the Central District power
plant where it wouldn't block the view
right so again I guess back to what was
our charge we back to note our charges
tonight
given that height would you want the
building that was shown in the picture
of a plant you know from the architect
tonight none of that one that is less
stark yes and I would just add that this
building is probably much taller than
times yeah yeah a little less fun unless
it's something more along the lines of
yeah yeah bottom left yeah I want that
one we want that one just put that this
might help us I think it's not tonight
but maybe when you bring this back there
are layers of things in the in the codes
and regulations that impact the actual
building that we get in what the uses
are so you have abs or acquire montañas
owning requirement should have certain
envelope requirements and you have
setback requirements and there are
different things that affect how the
site's laid out and how the building is
configured we're just talking about kind
of stuff that gets put on the outside
for the most part here not so much about
what's really going to drive the
different forms of building because a
residential building is a very different
than an office building there are things
that we that regulate how big the floor
plates can be and how far apart
buildings I hope you have been to doing
that Issaquah energy about how far part
buildings need to be but it's it might
be useful just to now these are the
things that influence in addition to the
design standards that influence what
building types and the nature of the
uses we're going to get in different
parts of the city because we also have
the district plan provides some
description about what kinds of things
want to happen in these various
districts within the city so that and
that would probably be informative to us
as we're thinking about the design
standards and also informative maybe to
the public who's trying to track all of
the
works yes one quick point but when it
gets away I'm thinking back to the
presentation how central to their vision
the idea the urban grid was and so I'd
be interested in any constraints in the
code that would impinge or affect the
implementation of the urban grid because
I believe to them that was absolutely
essential to getting a lot of the other
components in at one so if you look at
the outline I'm doing this from memory
because I don't have it in front of me
they do talk about block size under
urban design right sir and so and that
actually was one of the few things where
there was text I think they were saying
a 240 by 400 square foot block maximum
and preferably 240 foot square but I'm
doing that from memory I'm not sure
that's exactly right so I think I only
want to make the point that I think they
recognize how important that is as a
part of implementing the vision and the
plan and so they are including it as
part of the manual absolutely I think it
was fundamental in more than one way to
what they were proposing and so if we
have you know any issues with that in
terms of code and we should probably
understand those and grid is addressed
in the central Issaquah plan but it's a
different approach to that grid I think
in the exhibit that's in the set then
the more detailed implementation that
they had when they did their overlay it
looked like it was much more defined
which to answer one of the other things
that could impact would be exterior
living space say above ground level I
think one of the things that I think
looking back and say the Atlas
apartments the lack of balconies the
lack of connection between the inside of
the buildings and anybody at the street
level and the extent that if we may
might be in design per se if there's
more requirement for outside living area
above ground level that could be met
through either through balconies or
through rooftop gardens that could also
affect the design that we see in
buildings themselves I'm my suggestion
it's not an exhaustive lesson on Watson
it's just what are the things for Leia
in a quick explanation of how that how
they get apart then that would be like
in the design standards to me part of it
would be more outside and I'm not sure
how you put that in there but not just
box building well you know or at least
for residential right now there is a
requirement for 4844 unit we allow that
to be consolidated and so one question
would be whether that is on a certain
percentage or in certain style types and
it could be above the first floor so it
doesn't all just get consolidated in the
plaza right but you but or what you
might say is that individual certain
percentage of units have to have either
a terrace
or a falcon right yeah and that then
outdoor space you know is that a
separate category from the ones that are
you know individually related to the
unit gotcha
okay I'll just go pick up my stuff okay
sorry
thank you
thank you other thoughts on the
framework the checklist miss Roberta
thought made some very good points about
it I did to them they're going to be a
good tool kit for us I think it is yeah
okay what else have we not covered you'd
like us to cover tonight at least I so
is there are there any of the images
that they have provided that anyone so
we talked about the wooden one that one
if I went through them could you just
people just call out if they like
certain images I mean I I think what
we're trying to do is help give them
guidance or if there's certain
particular notes on the slides that
resonate or don't resonate I think it
would be helpful to hear that to try and
help this evolved to a big leap forward
like an equine test right yeah we all
have to do we're going to learn a lot
about you in this process
oh no no no yes no no so remember you
can also talk about some of the
terminology like the tripartite if if
those things resonate in to me with this
one you mentioned tripartite but the
upper part is so small to it it's well
and so I find that a really helpful
comment so that we understand then
what's generating the know yeah well
then to me in the starkness of the
exterior form okay just when the window
window in it that that to be might work
if the colors if the colors were
different on that Billy okay so that's
an important point because they were
shooting for light and dark and what I'm
hearing is that may be another version
of too stark I think we want natural
well this this could be matched down I
know
ruff well were they thinking not bright
that with them when they said lie there
to seem like everything's either light
or dark and wasn't part of the argument
they one of the buildings to be
background so the landscape and other
elements would stand out it's also a way
to avoid blues in so I think I do have
to declare it if light or dark is a
grave mechanism
say light night light dark and natural
capture Oh see there's no blue siding in
there and I think we have to be that
with it you I believe that is it was a
key point of what they presented to us
consistently is the buildings in the
central Issaquah plan should blend in
most of them and there could be accent
buildings but most of the buildings
should not be monuments to architectural
hubris so just to be fair to architects
sometimes it's a client well yeah it's
the answer which is too strong but but
the idea was that most of the buildings
in the central Issaquah plan should
create the public realm as opposed to
sort of being the foreground is that
which er yeah okay
in my own planner s I just I start it
keeps jumping out at me I the modulation
with with balconies and things like that
would and in a difference is between a
professional building in a residential
right I was gonna say I read this is an
office building so balconies wouldn't
really don't know I just say but I read
as a government office building I think
it's a very utilitarian it can be bold I
think it's a very expensive stark bill I
don't think this isn't a good corner
site yeah I don't like this yeah so here
just another observation on this one too
is down at the ground floor level I mean
you've got kind of stark above but in a
lot of ways you pretty stark down at the
bottom yes
so you don't have any real pedestrian
interest down here and it's not softened
very well at all
I landscape overhangs yep yeah overhangs
right so because we're doing such a
great job of unpacking this image and
your reactions to it I want to go back
to this one which was a very visceral
reaction because it has a lot of natural
materials in it and yet it it doesn't
resonate for most of you if or some of
you can you talk about that a little bit
number one you don't end the tripartite
that you talked about okay so I'll just
tell you from from a modernist
perspective they might say they did and
I'll tell you why and you can tell me
why it doesn't work
vertical tripartite I've got the base
and you've got this heavier top here now
it's not a cornice but they might say
that that's the tripartite peace now
that okay i i'm not saying that it means
you're wrong I'm just saying that's the
way an architect might say in a mod in a
modern vocabulary how they're doing
trestle work what I do like about the
building is that it's a large building
with large floor plates but they broke
it up with that vertical different dark
color element and I think that's a good
thing to do when you have these big
massive buildings I like the use of the
natural materials but the way they
integrated into the windows it's just a
personal reaction to me use God isn't
appealing to me in this combination of
colors or materials and then I at the
top of the building again a lot of the
images they're showing us or disjoints
flat top buildings and even though
they're tripartite attempting that at
least that some too much of that gets
pretty old in a hurry honest if you're
looking at a skyline also a model if it
doesn't have any real setback as it goes
up so that's an interesting point and
because I see that over here but when I
look at this I wonder if that is it it's
not the facade you you focus on but it
seems to have more modulation on that
side I don't know whether that level of
modulation helps or it isn't sufficient
to address the concern you're raising
and I think from the tops when you look
at from here
you see side and side it does look like
very boxy and you're right I don't think
that modulation seems to make much of a
difference visually I agree with
everything that's been said but I would
also add again to me this is that the
even if that's stone it still it still
would stand out that's the color it's
the the natural elements and the great
the dark section of the tripartite if
the colors on either side of that were
variations of that like lighter gray I
it would not be much more close to
acceptable to me than then with the
looks like white right so the only point
I would make about that and I'm just I'm
just trying to facilitate I'm not trying
to argue is on a sunny day this is quite
brilliant on a gray day a gray building
is pretty grey yeah so the question in I
only put that out there because I think
that we are trying to Emme we always
photograph things in the sunshine and
then we have to live with them mostly
not so I think that it in this
conversation is going to be important to
understand if we're going for those not
so brilliant whites how are we doing
something that doesn't feel drab on gray
days would this actually meet our like
if I look to the right the right the
Posada on the right side and you look at
the windows and that big portion yeah
would that actually fit within our
guidelines in terms of repetitive and
would that be now we can only go so far
before we break things up bill didn't
even fit so one thing I would say is
that the tools that we have right now I
think they're all in the building
chapter are contradictory and that's one
of the frustration staff had is that one
direction was to break it into smaller
buildings so you might say that that
right facade does that you know it's got
dark light dark and one of them
said that then the second thing is
you're supposed to do tripartite base
middle top then you're also supposed to
set back after a certain number is like
too many tools that you're and they're
all given your weight and how do you do
that without just a totally chopped up
building so I think that one or two of
those may be fine
trying to use all three of them in every
building was was challenging and so I
think that's that's one of their
challenges the study does all may be
valid tools how do you know when you use
which one or is it at the applicants
discretion know you're all smiling I
don't know if it's a happy smile I would
personally I'd say know that I'm a
modernistic and boxy in the roof lines
wrapping around our second okay Mike
Allen yeah I would say yes yes everybody
know that if wider you like this one
better than the previous one picture the
Cheerios pollen on my roof well weather
is different yeah yeah but down the
science we could do later about the
width with there's there's less in dark
weather that would look more acceptable
to me I mean that's kind of a compromise
in dark light rainy sunny and the roof
is that looks all warm and comfortable
inside the other thing now yeah you know
I mean there's little bits and pieces I
could pick apart but as a building I
think it's it's a nice gesture I like
the dark natural material
I think that mr. mr. know Stark here I
think that's too dark well for Issaquah
in winter Maine wowzers and also that's
kind of is that it New England saltbox
kind of architectures okay well it's a
salt box on steroids and yeah yeah I
don't yeah but that's not hearken to our
crime-fighting heritage well it's just a
tough time I hear you know you have we
want to have things that are like
surprises too that are interesting that
create conversation of that and some
people will like that
and some people will go what were they
thinking and and then sometimes and then
who knows what goes on inside the
Daniell which could be kind of fun I'd
be old fun you don't want we don't want
to you know have a monolithic young town
right so no one really focused on this
but in the Issaquah Highlands guidelines
it talks about consistency of the
neighborhood type but it allows 25%
quirks it consistent is seventy five
percent and so an article one time
described is qua Highlands 25 percent
quirks use that word quirk in the
article in the article I'm not just
remember it's a guideline to use that
word I could clarify one point on my my
commentary about meshing for overlaying
the zones or the districts this is what
I meant is bring the gable roof into the
urban core that to me gives it that
consistency iconic consistency it's not
literal but there's there's an assassin
sand so that that's what I was harkening
towards a little bit but and I I think
the architectural style is fine I just
this is another color issue for me that
that that building in a different color
I would I wouldn't go automatically no I
would go Olney looking building
different and gives a variety but no
Darby always ends up because there's so
few windows to it could be as well as
siding and it's all very monolithic well
not to put too fine a point on it I
think it's actually not so much that
they don't have a lot of windows I think
it's that the trim is the same color as
the body
colors so and the windows are going to
be dark because that's what windows are
and so therefore it just reads as all
dark and you don't the things that
they've done to modulate are less are
more subtle and maybe too subtle mm-hmm
so that's that a master's degree in
architecture game that is break on the
on the right the scream right uh-huh
okay do you want to talk about these
other than to say I think it's great
that then the parking is concealed you
have that combination parking pedestrian
areas and in them yeah the the building
frontage is given over to solely
pedestrian listing on this one
specifically I like the fact that the
building at the corner where there's a
curve to the street was not brought all
the way out to the street that's my oh
yeah that's my Costco comment also I
don't know where yeah I think it's in
the core already but screening all the
mechanical equipment that there plunk it
down on the roof is something we want to
make sure yeah that is already in the
code so it is a challenge that we have
when you're looking straight down on it
but we have tried to address that
there's just no character so is that
that in a residential building that's
what it reads to mean well no well I
mean I took Commissioner Morgan's point
which I agree with is that's not it's
not friendly it doesn't it doesn't say
balcony and and get out and you know so
if this building had balconies would
that be different not sure because they
might just stuck on for the sake of that
but but that's it's not an inviting
residential building and if they're if
they're showing it just for this tree
oil at ground floor units I do like that
aspect of it
which I that's that yeah yeah yeah
landscaping yeah have some separation
between the public and a private space
for Brian Morris I did get concerned
about this one in terms of out about
that about the yeah create the we allow
them to say yeah lift that up and eat
the street away from the unit that seems
to go conflict with what we're talking
about so the one challenge that I would
point out while I completely agree with
your comment the reality is almost
nothing in central is quads flat and so
one question is if you're doing a you
know if you're doing individual units
then you can begin to stagger them and
step along the street one of the
challenges is when you're doing a full
block or half block building how do you
take up that grade ground across the
building and so yeah so I look at this
and I said that's reasonable that may
not be a solution that we want and so
that that's yes because I remember the
one of the slides they have that showed
those buildings the very beginning like
I think down in Portland that were solid
wall along the street I didn't want to
have that yeah this image for me the
thing that catches my eye is the
pedestrian experience along here is not
great because you're right against a
concrete stone wall it's love your head
there's really no landscaping that
softens it if it's a hot day and you're
standing you're walking through there in
the side
going to not be very comfortable so that
if we're going to have conditions like
that we need to make sure that that
transition between the pedestrian space
and the building is done something done
the sauce off yeah it's a blanket if you
cover that if you treat that in a
different material or with some kind of
landscape element and had it the area
above that some is not what you're
commenting on it's really the part down
where the pedestrian and I and I'll tell
you I like I like the architectural
variety of that building because to me
that's not it's not flashy but its
distinctive and it's I really like I
mean I that to me would be has a lot of
texture that I just really would
appreciate and and you know along with
having recommended and not recommended
the reality of using pictures is that
you usually you often have to carve out
the things that are that are not okay as
well as the things that are okay in a
photo yeah and I also want to
acknowledge that if that was the whole
building I probably might say wow a
really white stark building but to
seeing that part of it and in these
lighting conditions it like looks okay
just say that pop out that they put a
glistening if we put it in the two
buildings back that everyone commented
will be great the one that we're saying
there's no balconies even if you don't
have the balconies but you have pop-ups
in and out even small ones it will make
the building more P like dynamic and
every we've talked that one to death do
we need to talk about this one it's a
great corner site but I think it stops
there no it really opens up that corner
and that's where you get in trouble with
these tall buildings these really dense
areas if you can open up that corner it
does a lot of things just visually
safety light calls out completely step
down we go in the back street art this
corner plaza in the taller retail and
that is something that we have right now
in central is qua um encouraging
treatment of corn
of building and what I'm hearing from
this slide and some other ones is that
that is still something that's important
to preserve either by cutting eroding it
back like this or potentially having a
treatment and just the base is cut back
or somehow there's something notable at
that corner and they made this look like
three different buildings when you look
up at the upper roofline the Yuma and I
know if the plan does it that there are
maybe some corners at intersections
where you want to require that to happen
that are very you know intense on the
pin it could be very intense in the
future on the pedestrian side and you
want to have some extra space at the
corner it for example would you be
thinking like at the this central plaza
concept that they discussed the corners
that face out on that where there be
there had to be a lot of pedestrian
traffic by design you'd have because if
you do that it forces the building to
change a or two so it changes the look
at the in the corner of the architecture
I think this one goes what's the one we
talked about before we talked about that
one what are you so building on
extremely excellent so I think we know
what you're going to say architectural
II but in terms of the step back
thoughts about essentially creating
something that appears to be five
storeys even if it's taller appreciate
that in the corn has helped you know and
if that were if I are the doors at the
top or just windows I think those are
windows of in the upper one or two
stories at the very very top lid those
are windows I'll cook because if they
were if they were very doors I was going
to say if there were you know really
nice potted plants up there along with
the entire front of it would
significantly soften the appearance
abilities well and that isn't I mean I
think that also touches on Commissioner
Morgan's point about balconies and roof
uses the one of the values of the roof
is you know is a public gathering space
where you have a building that may take
up you know to get the site to work you
may not have enough room at the ground
but you have the roof the benefit to the
passerby can be the trees or other
landscape elements that are up there
that are visible from off site and I'd
agree and I think this building you
would notice these even more from say a
block or two away that that difference
with that modulation become more
apparent certainly I did live these two
I don't see the that one of the things
you know that the balconies have
overhangs that stick out from a building
with a diagonal tie back to the building
I think with a lot of these buildings
that could break up the start face of
leaves which is I think in some ways
what Commissioner price was talking
about is that those are can be kind of
an arts-and-crafts vocabulary but done
in a sort of modern material that
doesn't look historic but adds that
level of detail to the building
my first reaction to that is didn't we
who's that no ha ha that's right here's
the red I wonder what people would think
if it didn't have the red so I think
that the red is actually like a mahogany
or a walnut colored wood product you
know that's one of the things I've
noticed about rally's hotel is that it
looks like solid colored panels but
actually when you're up close those are
a very expensive kind of wood paneling
system but one of the challenges is you
have to appreciate that up close yeah
and you know I was thinking about this
earlier Lucy that I personally believe
that the hi-low crossing is very nice
very nicely done and when I look at it
from 90 when I'm coming into town it
doesn't its distinctive but it doesn't
say wow look at me and I and then when
you get closer to it actually see the
materials on it which I go past it every
day I you know I think it's just one of
the most under appreciated new
developments in in the whole city and it
really to me shows and it shows how it
can be done I think this one for me
I mean if the architectural variety is
interesting to debate would just be over
the colors of material selection it's
got the balcony somehow feels really
top-heavy
well you know one thing I was just
thinking about is they had talked about
using vertical lines to emphasize
verticality and this one feels much more
horizontal and a little more squat which
I think relates to your comment
Dunlap thumbs-down found it's okay like
what's it lead to it does when it's hard
to be turn to act it's sort of yeah so
let's say on the front door to an
individual unit
I like the materials if that's what
they're trying to show there's a
different kind of materials I I like the
wooden brick if it had a different door
this is a great example of just bringing
in an awning with some braces or
something just an awning just to give it
a pedestrian or a human-scale
that just has this yes no there's no
human scale I do appreciate the
landscape buffer
I appreciate the material holds off the
street those are durable material and
they're natural
those are all good but but then it gets
lost on like there's a person supposed
to make it it looks like we take a smoke
breaks as opposed to just going to say
try to get a keg up so since it's
improving yeah
but that one something again it's not a
really nice pedestrian environment it's
kind of hard to since we can't see the
rest out to the street but there's
nothing that's coming out from the
building there's no sort of weather
protection there's no real articulation
as you're walking along where it sets
back so one of the things that's in the
standards right now which is kind of a
pet peeve of mine which shows you that I
pay attention to some details that like
are crazy
I don't like smooth windows and I think
part of that I agree with the weather
protection but also you want some sense
that there's depth to the windows and
the mullions and things because it gives
it that texture if it gets too flat I
think it just all becomes a skin and you
don't get a sense of the pieces the
question here with this would we allow
this with the cover on the windows kind
of like the BevMo up in the highlands I
don't think we this would be approved
with it we allow 50% so this looks like
it might Oh
but if you had the you know or it might
be it depends on whether the sort of
clerestory piece of this was a part of
that 50% calculation obviously these
windows
that's like two-thirds one-third I think
that's one of the big issues with
ground-floor retail you know is somebody
that comes in and says well we need to
like a banks as well we need to block
all these windows off and the whole idea
was there a connection between the
inside the out and yeah and they work
with Jesse jail right yeah like a wallet
what I'm sorry what is the rationale for
doing that you're locking it off the
retail why do I wouldn't you like if you
have a bank if you have a bank branch
and somebody's got offices or you know I
mean you can end up with service retail
where people just put of them with
blinds or or like with demo up in the
highlands it's all product shelves so
they've got kind of a decorative film on
the outside of the windows you can't see
like like this but covering almost all
of it the nice dorm see that's a more
that but that's a more contemporary
style of architecture you've got a
variety of integers you get three
different facades so in a plaza space
where people can mingle in hangout but
you know I don't know that it's a
different kind of interest for me but
it's it's not something that I say yacht
it's just for me I don't think I would
have a hard time with this textured well
and and to Commissioner Harrison's point
you know I wonder about this metallic
gray if it has a little sparkle I mean
just a little bit of shine that makes it
a little more interesting in grey
weather than then a flat material that
didn't have any you know any shine to it
but I agree with Fischer bred into him
in the three different phases and the
set back and the courtyard it's a good
example of light and dark you mind if
that was blue pink beige yeah
brick I'm like brick I like it that's a
personal yeah I do too
and it's got the window it's got the
shade awnings on the autumn it's got
accent pieces that are not just and
gaudy to me it's it's a different
different accent pieces so that's that
is in contrast to the previous one
that's just to me it's just a more
interesting structure actually for the
image of is a Claddagh and we're talking
about brick would be a material that for
me would work well this kind of demo
Frick I mean it's almost a it's a new
building that looks like it's been
around you know what looks like a
converted warehouse that looks like a
factory that's the kind of character I
think that people would probably be
attracted it's interesting to me though
is this whole what they're trying to
show here is the stucco we're all
talking about the brick yeah there point
to the second point anyway and but but
what I'm hearing is that this is a that
this is the kind the kind of
intersection between modernity and
historicism that doesn't feel like
you're trying to pretend it's old and
yet accommodates six floors and and and
taller generally more modern character
yeah I say and again exactly that but
but compare that was it there it is
almost the same size that one in the
previous building yep did I honestly
believe that public would have far less
if any of whoa what are they doing with
the brick than that one same same floor
space same height I think it's two
different buildings I think this is a
parkland building versus yet I was
wondering you got another one an office
building or an apartment building office
building no I read this as an office
building okay but in my I don't know
what it'd be with the windows on the
right with office you need to have much
more window well I thought it I wouldn't
have that was a really far between the
well and you may be right I read it as
office because of the way the ground
floor looked but now that I look at it
with these individually opening casement
windows because of the eventual dorm I
think you got a with you see Lucy I'm
sorry back to the other one though I
think one of the things is materialized
I think if with stucco I think it needs
to be an accent cut material like
they've done here not a whole facade of
stucco okay I like it yeah alka nice now
the interesting thing is these are
balconies that push into the building as
we hope to balconies that are on the
side and then and then between it that
other section that gets pushed back as
well yeah right I think this is almost
like a it's not an atrium because it's
not enclosed but it has that open
multiple floors yeah I appreciate what
about the balconies are truly integrated
and I think it's one of the best design
guidelines I've ever worked with is
integration is it an integrated feature
where some balconies were like last our
balconies and they just long devil yep
this was truly integrated into the
building and achieved indoor/outdoor
achieves a lot of articulation that
facade it does a lot of things materials
dark and light that much so I but why
why would I mean I will very much like a
building but I don't understand the
economics why would a developer have all
that open space there I like it I like
it but I don't it seems like good it'll
do you know that yeah I think that's the
entry Plaza well you have the Y's it's
just an interesting economic thing to me
because I think it adds tremendously to
the building and if that were solid
there if to me it wouldn't be as
interesting so that's a I don't know if
it's a sacrifice on the part of the
developer to have done that but I don't
remember ever seeing that before so okay
I'm going to make something up which is
that it potentially these grills
represent the elevator tower lobbies and
so the
out of space potentially between that
Lobby and the front facade is too
shallow or too close to the elevator to
justify it and so it's an opportunity to
have a striking building where there
would be minimal benefit from filling it
in so it made it happen
I don't like that okay okay yeah I wish
you happen more I put that up late at
night yeah I think it brings in the
store system too because that's a good
word I was talking those big words
you're confusing okay I like separate
yeah and it dampers yeah yeah oh that's
interesting so Steve was saying that
this the door that you didn't like that
had the wood inside mm-hmm
[Music]
it just needs an awning it needs a
different door but we'll argue about
that light anymore so here our balcony
we're gonna agree to dinner yeah I like
because I like that really I like the
way the ground floor pilot pulls up so
it's one building at a time I think
sometimes the tripartite earns it in
three buildings I like it
first Linden's but I don't know what
yeah I'm Peter McCall exclusive 43 you
know and the thing that'll be
interesting when we get down to the book
is because we don't want it all
consistent I think you all are going to
have to talk about how much consistency
do you need or how much agreement do you
need between yourself and you know if
one person disagrees if half the people
disagree if most of the people you know
in that's a that's something to think
about is what will ensure variety but
not things that we are trying to avoid
whatever it takes for votes wins I was
at that point I mean if it gets to that
point we can can we just signify the
intent of the Commission by having a
vote on an individual issue yeah with an
override by the vice-chair sure we're
not talking about that one anymore hey I
think that's the one that that we were
looking at that had the three different
to God only this is
that's the end all right that was really
helpful I appreciate you sly I think it
was a good idea
and the one thing it seemed I don't
think we saw any retail or I guess maybe
just ground-floor retail right everybody
opposed you mentioned like in all these
different styles to show the different
types of buildings would be very helpful
the different different uses in that
applying that styles yeah especially
this claw style so last question for you
Keith speaking of retail what is you
that's your job title now to look look
at that right I mean so but there been
there's been so much news in the last
couple of weeks about brick-and-mortar
retail now it's been you know department
stores and malls and things like that
but what would from your perspective
looking out at a building that's going
to be there for the years how do is that
has the objective of having as much
retail as possible or I know if that's
correct
in going in the central district what
plan is that changing from your
perspective what's real and what's
possible so so complicated question and
especially at almost 10:30 so let's go
with so right now the tax structure in
this day definitely benefits the city to
have a high proportion of retail it
brings more money into our coffers which
then we can use for services and staff
so retail there's a benefit to retail as
Amazon and Walmart and Costco and other
retailers are starting to bite into
brick and mortar you know you're seeing
things like JCPenney and Sears and
others struggling and trying to figure
out how to keep afloat right and so part
of part of what's happening in
and to come verse a ssin that's
happening earlier just based on some of
the standards and I'm going back to
Commission member Brennan's comment
about there's a lot of other things that
effect ultimately what we're going to
get and SAR is going to be a big one
and you know knowing that right now
we've set minimum FA RS you know
especially in the core you know it
likely that we'll get single story
retail as new development as
redevelopment not likely so the retail
that we're probably going to be getting
in addition to what we have now will be
things like you know it'll be the
neighborhood serving ground-floor retail
in mixed use vertical mixed-use building
you know that's clearly something I
think that we are hoping that we'll get
out of the redevelopment of Central
Issaquah you know trying to figure out
you know my job and what I'm trying to
figure out is really how do I populate
and even land use mix as it redevelop
sand and you know right now what I would
tell you probably the hardest struggle
is office space you know in getting
office because right now Issaquah as an
office market is is not a hot commodity
and so getting off it so like the
project that's happening where the
council approved the development
agreement for Gilman lofts which is
happening next to the gotcha
you know that's supposed to be three
storeys of office over ground-floor
retail with some tuck under parking in
the back side so getting office in in
central Issaquah is a huge piece and
that will drive things like convenience
retail and more places where people will
want to go for lunch time once you have
that you know daytime population that's
hanging out looking for places to go
have lunch so so I think standalone
retail will not be a big slice of our
pie let alone just because of what's
going on globally with retailers but
also just because of the price of land
and things like putting mandates on
structured parking and other things that
are coming out of
those other code requirements so I think
I think part of what we want to do is to
not lose some of the square footage that
we have so there's been conversation
about as things go away and and we saw
that with Atlas we displaced some uses
now some move to other parts in town but
some just disappeared we don't want too
much of that because again getting back
to our tax base and what we need to be a
vibrant community requires it relies on
retail okay so just to that point come
close to what you're saying I thought
you said earlier is that read the
alternatives are chunk of City revenue
comes from retail and if that goes away
or significantly decreases then
alternate sources for that revenue have
to be found in the form of a property
tax or or it could be head tax so some
cities charge a head tax on employees
you know we charge a business and
occupation tax yeah but some cities also
charge a head tax so like you know like
an office user won't pay a B&O tax or
might pay a minimal B&O tax but they
would pay if they're they've got
thousands of employees then you charge a
certain head tax and they pay based on
the number of employees they have so
there's there's you know at the end of
the day you know the city will figure
out how to get enough revenue to operate
and if we lose out on sales tax we will
have to make it up in a different way
you know questions comments anything
else you need from us it's time for
napping
well I very much appreciate the public's
patience and the comments that were made
very much appreciated all the
commissioners comments I think this has
been an excellent session and a great
chance and everything that you've done
to present it to us and work with us on
this and there's our new commissioners
well
and really appreciate that so without
any further ado meetings adjourned thank
you
you