I haven't married use it okay
what's why
development Commission meeting of
Wednesday on a 3rd 2017 and first order
of business is for us to approve some
minutes of April 19-20 17th at excellent
excellent minutes really appreciate that
work it's hard work but good five hours
work yeah so is everybody have has
everybody read the minute this is are
there anybody interested in making a
motion will be approve okay second okay
any discussion Corrections great jobs is
excellent all those in favor approving
the minutes say aye aye opposed that
looks like we approved a minute right so
we have as you've noticed two new
members to new alternates tonight
Richard Sanford and Ryan rotor am i
starting that right we have one more
member who isn't here tonight next
meeting will be elections so start
jockeying for positions we don't know in
magnetic meeting I'm going to me no no
no the other guy has promised not to get
involved no last-minute announcements so
we'll do that next meeting we don't know
when the next meeting is it may be
related to this I can't I can't remember
if there any other permits coming up so
and he said he thought he saw them out
there
so I think we're going to spend we have
two new members here this evening I
thought Lisi and I thought it'd be good
especially since we might have a few
minutes to spend a little bit of time
just on why we're talking about
architectural guidelines and urban
design and you know primarily for you
two guys who I'm sure just crawled out
from underneath a rock to joke sorry so
the city's in a moratorium right now it
was enacted in September of last year
and there were a number of reasons why
it was enacted but here we are and as
the Commission is well aware it didn't
mean that everything stopped which is
why we spent quite a bit of time last
meeting talking about a development
proposal so there are a number of things
that are still moving but basically what
it did was anything that hadn't already
come in the door basically had to park
and wait and the reason why we're
waiting are for the topics that you see
on and this is actually the city has a
moratorium web page you can get there
via the city's web page and you go into
development services and then there's a
bottom icon you can click on the
moratorium and then once you get here
we've had each of the staff project
leaves work to kind of create a subpage
that will give you a little bit more
information about what each topic is
including maybe the next public touches
what the schedule might be because all
of the work plan items are actually
moving at different speeds and moving a
little bit different courses depending
on what the topic is for architectural
guidelines in urban design we decided
that it made the most sense to spend a
majority of the time talking that
through with the development commission
since those are the tools that you guys
will ultimately use in the future but
whereas something like parking we really
decided that
our best course of action was to hire a
consultant because parking is something
that every jurisdiction deals with good
and bad
and rather than recreate the wheel we
felt like the best thing for us to do
would be to get a technical report by a
consultant they would tell us one are we
right parked and two what would happen
if we actually changed our rules to
mandate a certain percentage of parking
to be in structure and so that's that
project it's actually because it's much
more of just a technical analysis and
less kind of public outreach it's the
farthest along it'll be finished first
and it actually informs some of the
other things they're happening so it
makes sense whereas like district
visions or neighborhood visions that has
conversely the most public outreach so
it's actually going to be the one that
probably finishes up last so these six
items are in different stages of
completion and staff are really hoping
that we can get most of them done by the
time the council has to either renew or
reconsider the moratorium which would be
in September of this year so so
basically the way that the the state
statutes work is you if you don't know
an exact timeline for what you need to
fix you basically go on a revolving six
months kind of window and so we've
already renewed it once and then we'll
be do again in September of this year
so right now we're all kind of focused
on getting these things kind of put
together so that by the time we hit
September hopefully the council feels
comfortable that we've addressed the
issues that they feel needed addressing
and would potentially lift the
moratorium at that time is there a limit
on how many times you can roll over this
then not explicitly so so that it kind
of that there's a there's an intuitive
level of pain
that you need to be sensitive to you
know at some point so so a city can get
sued if it has basically a perpetual
moratorium in place so you have to be
able to demonstrate that you're making
progress towards lifting it and I think
that at this point we can genuinely say
that we are doing what we need to do to
accomplish that now it could very well
be that come September the council says
you know what let's let's do two months
they don't have to do six months so they
could say well you're pretty close
you're not quite there so let's just
let's look at this thing in December and
maybe by then everything will be ready
and we'll lift the moratorium at that
point so it's it's a little fluid on
that front but you can't basically keep
so part of and part of the rules if you
will is you have to have specific things
that you're working on right you can't
just say we're going to enact a
moratorium because we haven't seen the
Sun you know for six months you know
because I'm good Sun came out today hi
gentlemen
and you know so it has to be tangible
and there has to be a way to actually
get to an end and so I think we're well
within our bounds in terms of protocols
but at some point if we've adequately
addressed these six items I don't think
the council could legitimately say they
wouldn't lift the moratorium that would
I think it would put the city in an
awkward spot but I'm not a city attorney
all right any other questions
Randi hi I think Newcastle was the first
city that I know of to put a moratorium
in place - do you know of any other
towns that have it that are in the
Seattle metropolitan area and and is
there's continuing as far as you know
key I know you're so so there are
moratoriums that so Issaquah actually
had a moratorium earlier many many moons
ago and it was four we had both a water
supply issue this was before we joined
cascade water alliance when we were
dependent solely upon well water and
there's a capacity limitation that we
were hitting so we basically hit
our capacity that way you know when
Issaquah Highlands got bill they
actually built a transmission line from
Bellevue out which basically took any
limitation we would have off from a
water standpoint but recently related to
things like we're dealing with now
Newcastle enacted a moratorium because
they weren't getting any mixed use in
their what they call their town center
area I believe that Mercer Island
enacted a moratorium recently it was
more about I think their residents
having issues with the amount of growth
that was happening in Mercer Island
there's a lot of parallels between
Mercer Island and Issaquah in a odd way
Sammamish has been talking about it they
haven't done it yet will they do it
maybe every time I Drive up to the
plateau I'm surprised at the number of
subdivisions that are in progress right
now somebody east of us did I can't
remember if it's North Bend or
Snoqualmie one of the two of them
dropped the moratorium kind of bail as
well so right now I think it's just a
general reaction to communities
struggling with kind of the pace and the
scale of growth that's going on right
now and I think that you know putting
some more tools in our toolbox which is
what this is really about for us I think
will get us to a better place once once
it gets lifted thank you hope that was
helpful
and any questions feel free you can
shoot me in Luci emails later if you
want but I'm going to go ahead and stop
since I'm just going to switch chairs
because the baby chair over here I'd
like to see over the counter okay that's
fine
so Don and Jason welcome I was your
stand-up act here I was keeping the
crowd engaged in
so you guys can just show the routine up
here it says darn son today thanks part
of the problem too well it did I know I
would not know how to shave so so what
we're calling this is a preference
workshop so it's pretty open so my sense
is there's quite a few slides and I
don't necessarily want to wait till I
finish this so if you guys chime in or
nask questions as I go along and I'll
pause - - to make sure that we we can do
this so can I be fully start with
questions so can you let us know kind of
at the beginning here kind of what
you're what you're looking for from us
in comments feedback suggestions uh as
you're backing through this yeah I can
do that
and so we what we're looking for is a
direction so that we can develop a draft
document for the architecture fit and
urban design and so what we're trying to
do right now is really try to frame some
ideas for you that will be then
translated into that document but
without this basic framework it's
difficult for us to just produce
something because otherwise it's going
to be our opinion not necessarily yours
or the community so that's that's really
what this is intended to do
it's really it's based on the the
comments and other things that we've
heard before and then our reaction to
that and trying to give you an option as
that's how to deal with your with the
central Issaquah plan and the standards
that are coming in so that's what I'm
saying is I'm going to pause and ask
questions as we go through here so that
we just don't get too far along on the
on the discussion so presentation
further discussion and a little bit
about the next steps so here's a project
schedule here we are May 3rd we were
back in almost a month ago talking to
you since that time we also talked to
City Council and gave them that same
presentation and so in the meantime
we've done roughly what we call a visual
assessment it's more than that but we're
here to present it tonight and then you
see the schedule after this will present
a draft and it's going to be a bit
iterative it etre iterative and we'll be
talking to you again later this month
maybe a rough or less a shell of what
that document is going to look like and
then in June unless the states have
changed Keith I don't know but yes but
generally it's in here somewhere we're
going to be talking within a month or so
and also the land and Shore and so the
idea it's really kind of finishes up in
August so just as a reminder going back
to the central it's go plan and the
design manuals what the intent of this
is to do okay and these are the project
tasks we've already done the assessment
we're here to then come back and look at
some in the next phase and the end of
May of the guidelines and then any
changes would happen at the end the
process to your existing standards and
we talked about what we heard general
comments I won't go through this because
we got more things to talk about but
this just reminder why we heard about
buildings we had a discussion about that
the
architecture concerns but what you were
getting
and then sight developed in other words
the urban design framework what was
occurring as well so with that initial
assessment we identified a couple things
with your existing central it squad
district visions that they're their word
heavy and there really isn't any
drawings or plans that Kompany these so
they're easily interpreted by one person
or another in different ways the
land-use framework is really isn't
informed by those visions much it's very
generic and the roadway system the
circulation system the ped and bike and
and the lacking of a transit system
which something is not the fault of the
plan simply because st3 didn't occur
until after this project was a plan was
adopted so it needs some hierarchy and a
little bit more definition in
particularly understanding how Landis's
relate to it and likewise with the civic
of the the green necklace piece there
really isn't any focal points or areas
that you would build housing around for
example things like public parks really
aren't all that well defined what we did
also do is in review some of the and
look at the projects that you you have
either approved or reviewed recently and
those are indicated here in that magenta
purplish color and so we looked at the
Ennis with project and have a sense of
what you reviewed and looked at the
staff reports and have a sense of what
was discussed with that and your your
views of those projects we looked at the
Atlas project the site plan and
particular is something I think was of
interest to us and the relationship of
the essentially they apartment complex
in adjacent to a Greenway in the park
and the orientation of buildings and
other things like that were something we
talked about materiality and mass
and things like that and in colors is
probably the hot point they're a gateway
again the question here was we heard
again again was about the lack of a
mixed use and and the the character of
the development has seemed somewhat
isolated as well and also Reva townhomes
so we looked at all this so I'm not
going to go through a lot on that but we
have taken a look at it lungs with the
Vale project and look at some of the
recommendations that you all have made
as well so that was just background just
for to to get us back up to date so for
tonight the preference discussion it's
really it's going to talk about what's
highlighted little livability
sustainability and balanced a mixed use
urban area and with an emphasis on urban
area and changing the area from a series
of strip malls and office buildings to
something that's different and is in a
natural setting that represents the
values of the community so what we've
tried to do is really focus this
discussion around the guiding principles
principles of the of the central
listicle plan when we start looking at
some issues so we want to go through
each one of these one at a time and see
if we're doing the right thing
so the first guiding principles about
integrating the environmental features
such as creeks and views and so that's
pretty pretty clearly articulated in
words and a couple of diagrams in the
plan and so our take on this is that
we've got a couple things going on with
the the district you've got a
destination on each end which is like
Sammamish in the old town and there
appears to be and clearly is a poor
linkage between those two destinations
in central Issaquah today and that the
issue is on this is that if you want to
have that linkage the northern side of
the area north of i90 is fairly
contiguous
and strong today with a lot of green
spaces so you can navigate along that if
you had a pathway walkway bike way along
it connecting the two until you get to a
90 which creates that barrier along F
squeak creak in the south of that it's
really fractured and the open space is
not continuous and so if that's going to
be a key connection there needs to be an
intervention and in some ways to tie
that back together and it seems like is
such a strong idea to do this to focus
your development along and towards the
creek in your Greenway your your Lake
Sammamish trail and then make sure that
development floats into that development
and find a framework that supports that
so it isn't a piece mill that there are
some some strategic actions over time
that lead you to to take advantage of
that resource which is unique to any
other area around here and it really is
the defining feature of central is
request so then this piece in itself is
probably the most important thing to try
to get right and our point of view as
you move forward so any discussion about
that piece right now or a discussion
that we should know is this the right
approach are we missing this at all one
of my fellow commissioners and I are
pretty active in friends physical a
Salmon Hatchery and I guess one of the
things that fish watches we're not
political but one of the things that we
watch real closely is for impact on the
creek we're not and the salmon run and I
sounds great so far but I think we need
to be really aware of the fact that and
there are tremendous standards in place
and regulations and everything I
understand that will that will
guard the creek but in the interest of
emphasizing the uniqueness of the creek
and its importance to the city I think
it has to be balanced with a buffers
real clear understanding from the get-go
of what is going to be defined in terms
of what you can do to focus on that and
enhance the creek environment at the
same time so sources that is what we'd
like to see buffers to be able to
clearly define that and then through
some design skander's make sure that
this isn't a backdoor area but it has a
front or orientation or a side door
orientation so it isn't out back and
behind a backwater but it has more
prominence not necessarily we need to
interact with the creek but we need to
have some awareness that it's there that
it isn't there today all right so let's
go on to the next one which is there's
really three things want to talk about
here with transportation vehicle transit
and pedestrian mobility and so the first
thing that we asked staff for is really
to get a better sense of the amount of
traffic in here because we know there's
a lot but one of the guiding principles
in the central is a plan is to make a
pedestrian friendly walkable district
and when we work in communities around
the country we know there's a certain
data mine where it becomes not
pedestrian friendly anymore and people
will stay away from it or you need to
separate people significantly with a
significant buffer away from traffic and
typically that number is about 15,000
trips a day so when you're looking at
Sammamish Road at 42,000 trips you know
Newport with 14 on the edge Gilman with
28 Lake Sammamish Parkway with 49 were
way above that number and so the it has
an impact on creating a cohesiveness for
the entire district and so what we do
know is that those collector and
arterial roads are important as regional
sources and so we also know that we've
with over a hundred thousand trips a day
and i-98 creates in a south north south
barrier and even more importantly the
existing crossings today are so hostile
that very few people are willing to
cross us with on and off ramps you know
the basic thing is would you take an
eight-year-old across the street or if
you were 80 are you going to cross that
roadway and I'd be challenge anybody to
do that so you really left with only one
underpass or two that you can actually
cross from the south to north in this
very large area the other thing that is
apparent to us is that Gilman is being
used as a regional facility and the we
question whether that is appropriate for
this district to further promote that
and allow a lot of regional cut through
traffic on Gilman it's in the heart of
your your-your-your district and as a
result of all these roadways the
development is very bifurcated with
forty and fifty thousand trips a day
it's very difficult to say that I got a
pedestrian friendly environment when
I've got across to these roadways or
walk along them so something needs to be
done with that so as a result of this
the district has more of this sort of
characteristics it's a place to drive
through rather than a destination and I
think a clear objective here is what can
we do to accommodate the the very
necessary regional traffic the city
traffic that make this more of it a
destination so one of the things that
we'd like to do is have a little bit
more definition about the green necklace
and really truly create something that
is more of a necklace in terms of
mobility Network so think about the
arterial roads is mobility Complete
Streets where you can't accommodate
these high volumes of traffic but if
somebody's going to walk along it
they're separated and protected on
multi-use paths and you do this pretty
good
in certain portions of your roadways
today for example a new port on certain
parts of it is pretty good roadway and
so it's it's not that you don't have
good models here locally how to do that
the issues it just needs to be a
continuous necklace not necessarily a
pieces of fits and starts so that we
need to really try to push the regional
traffic along the edges rather than
trying to concentrate it up the middle
and so here is the big leap here and
this is a point of discussion that we'd
like to have it talked to you about and
it's rethinking Gilman and thinking it
as a common thread tying the districts
and the focus of all development in the
districts so when you look at this pink
area in the middle Gilman is pretty much
in the middle and so if you try to say
is there a signature street that would
be identifiable viable for the district
we ask is Gilman that Street and what
would be the character of that Street
because in previous meetings for example
in City Council some people some of the
councillors said why have we given up on
Gilman I almost assumed that we would
have buildings engaging the street and
that's where we would get the mixed use
with the street oriented retail on it
not off seventh on an Atlas project or
the developers saying it's not viable
we know that retail needs a certain
amount of drive-by traffic you need to
have at least 5,000 trips a day then as
I mentioned before we give over 15,000
it becomes pedestrian hostile so the
question is can we redesign Gilman so
that it has more of the characteristics
of front going through Old Town so it's
two lanes of traffic on street parking
and maybe it's not convenient for people
cutting through your community but it
then it becomes that focus of
development so that's an issue and
something that we would like to have a
discussion is any comment about that
thought about it
how do you see excuse me how do you see
Gilman village in this
I'm not quite sure yet you know because
we haven't looked at every bit of
anything of the entire site and I'll for
example I can inform you of why you're
asking that question well I guess there
are two things one is that I moved here
in 1989 and my understanding is that
there it was considered a tourist
attraction and buses would come in from
all over the Seattle area to bring
people in to shop at Gilman Village and
it's still very viable yeah but there
you know it just seems to be isolated
where it is and it people that liked it
and know about it love it yeah but it
seems to me like it's kind of an East a
potential anchor if not already for what
you're talking there will be that so we
haven't really specifically looked at
that area and I'll tattoo as we move
through this we'll talk about some of
the areas that we have looked at
specifically I'm throwing it I guess my
pin and I like your idea a lot because
because I don't think there's a think of
it I guess it's probably classified as a
Parkway the category would happen simply
we would downgrade this to a different
kind of Street but it's not like you've
got a long distance to go that you need
to go 35 or 40 miles now to get
somewhere quickly and you're right I
think to to make that a more activated
Street for the pedestrian one of the
challenges could be something you could
do to wear it but abuts up to iodine B
who separate that a little more to make
it that more pedestrian friendly on that
side too but in general I like the idea
a lot of yeah they can add a more
personal bolt three so this would take
clearly some more traffic analysis to
really make it real but the idea here is
I think that you've got enough capacity
on a lot of your other big streets in in
you know frankly I don't think you're in
under any obligation to provide more
capacity for people who are moving
through your community and so the
so that's the idea and you see those two
circles one of the things that we've
talked about in the central ethical plan
is about gateways and really the
question is words really the real
gateway for your community and if we're
going to say that that is your signature
Street and most people 119,000 people
are coming off of the freeway that's the
Gateway and those two points off of
highway 18 and going south of Sammamish
Parkway so I would argue if you're
looking for a signature point for a
gateway those are the two areas it
really should concentrate on it and
there may be some sort of transitions
coming off of Newport or office of some
of the other streets but any thought
about that because I think it is
important to get gateways but they've
got to be meaningful and we can suggest
some ways of how to created a
significant gateway if that's something
we should be pushing for it has a little
time couple couple comments on the guide
yeah I like the idea of Gilman Boulevard
being the signature street I don't know
where else would put it I think people
associate front street you know and you
know Old Town section with the image of
is equality currently and we're talking
about the future the distant future and
on some of this thinking right now
so it's kind of what do we want it to be
I think that there are a couple of
challenges with Gilman one is it is
handling a lot of traffic and it has to
go somewhere and when it goes somewhere
it creates more congestion wherever it
goes and so that's an impact of the
community that obviously has to be
analyzed and try to figure out where
that gives and takes the other is and we
ran into it on the Atlas project if
there are some environmental challenges
with bringing buildings up to Gilman
Boulevard on the south side because
there's a big drainage that runs through
there and so that's going to offer some
I think some some challenges to try to
figure out how to deal with that to
allow for buildings to essentially come
up to face the street that's quite
create that kind of more interesting
pedestrian environment as far as this is
the Gateway yeah I like the ideas of
gateways it's kind of sets it frames the
the image the experience that people are
about ready to have or that they've had
on the way out cuz gateways for kind of
both ways the challenge at highway 900
is that's a huge intersection up there
that's having a lot of traffic a lot of
regional traffic that's going through
there so it would require a lot of
thinking and probably significant
investment actually make a statement at
that location a little easier to do it
down at the Front Street intersection or
where you leave Front Street and move on
to Gilman Boulevard I think there are
some good opportunities there to make an
interesting gateway statement right
because we don't know what that would be
but it's something we can think about no
back to the the map there the one at
Front Street
so last week at the Planning Policy
Commission meeting they were discussing
the Old Town sub area planned and there
was discussion about where the Gateway
to that should be because the they were
talking about actually lopping off there
was a proposal to reduce the Old Town
area further south you moved the
entrance further south essentially
toward the creek was I think the
Commission recommended not doing that
and keeping the north barrier up towards
where staples was up towards Gilman and
there was discussion about where the
gateway to Old Town was it would be
interesting then to think could there be
a like a double gateway the Sacco
Old Town and the Gilman to Gateway
starting at the same location yeah I
have one more comment about the gateways
if I can jump in there real quick so I
would argue that there's there's this
third gateway though I like what this
does to connect the south side but what
about what about is your heading to East
Lake Sammamish there if you're going to
or from and you know at Pickering it
feels like you know develop developments
moving that way and it has a very
different quality over there so how do
we bring that quality sir yeah exactly
how do we bring that quality the
qualities that will define you know
being more characteristic with front
street etc but how do we draw you up
that way and also let you know you're
leaving or you've come into Issaquah
yeah so I think it's a good comment and
I think we can take a look a little bit
more on that as well okay okay so I just
yeah go ahead one more thing on Gilman
this is absolutely not data supported
but I think there was a pretty clearly
some citizen concern about Front Street
when it was being redone for the water
main a lot of folks didn't understand
that there was a infrastructure
maintenance issue that resulted in a lot
of the trees being taken down and now
the plan is to put them back but Gilman
the trees that have been there the fruit
trees and the nut trees and so on that
we've been planted there that are public
that people can go harvest now I I would
have I think this is a great plan from
what we've seen so far but I I would
suggest that preservation of those is
going to be important regardless of how
this goes and if they have to be taken
down it's going to there's going to be a
pretty clear statement about what's
going to yeah all that's going to be
accommodated it and I think the issue is
when we think about this there's no
concept drawn up for this but I don't
think it's a one-size-fits-all for the
entire roadway I think for many segments
of it it may be as it is today but as
you hit what we are going to call I'll
show you a little bit later hubs it may
change more significantly so then we
look at the off-street multi-use trail
systems on your on the outer loops and
then on these inner loops so special on
Gilman can think of it in terms of
complete Street facilities that is
similar to this this is a design we did
in for 152nd Street in Redmond that goes
to Microsoft into the light rail station
it was four lanes suburban roadway very
much like Gilman knocked it down to
three and the development is actually
being built on the right side it's
project called as Tara right now has
been built in the city's building the
the piece on the left side fairly soon
as well so these things do happen on
these roadways so this may not be at all
what you want it to look like they just
give you a sense of it can't happen
where you've got pet pedestrian bicycle
and auto traffic all mixing in the same
and also there's a rapid bus system on
this as well so moving on then to talk
about transit and so the the thing on
this is to keep in mind is that there's
a you know that's t3 and it really at
this point is a dashed on line on the
run on the map and the question is how
do you get ahead of this because this is
you know it's a corridor and there's
bubbles identified four possible station
locations and so what we've done is we
do a lot of fans that work in fact we're
just starting a new project in the Twin
Cities and looking at ten stations an
entire corridor and designing and doing
the development around that and so we
get a sense of what the transit agencies
want to do and you see that little red
box up there the key is to do this
maximize ridership so you really need to
hit the destinations that you have today
like Park and Ride and you really want
to take advantage of like Costco because
that's a lot of employment so that gets
a lot of people off the roadway you want
to minimize costs you want to find that
cheapest route as possible
and you want to minimize impacts so you
want to avoid taking out buildings
taking out and crossing sensitive areas
or making traffic conditions worse at
major intersections so here's a real
quick shot at this and this is a subject
obviously to change that having done
enough this work we think that you've
got an option here that you can take
advantage of all those things so we're
suggesting is that the alignment is
probably going to come along i-90
looking at the diagrams and the in the
the diagrams always show just a line
coming in - it's a quad and probably go
into the park and ride and we're
suggesting maybe to avoid any complex or
disturbance along this intersection you
run it on the backs
item hila outside of the wetlands of
course that you need about 35 37 fee for
a trackway and cross up and over you've
got a substation there plus y over the
top and get to you multimodal station
and tie the buses the park and ride all
into one station come all the way back
down over to 12th and go over to Tibbets
and have another station cross over to
the freeway and have a terminus station
at Costco so the assumption is sometimes
is that I only get one station that you
have the the the the privilege of being
at the end of the line and when we
looked at downtown Redmond we did the
same thing we did a thing that we call
the boomerang we went past downtown
Redmond went to a park and ride and came
directly back into the downtown and
that's under design right now and we did
that work in 2005 way before st3 so this
may be just one of the options that you
need to look at but I think the the
point of this is it's best to get ahead
of the ballgame and be proactive rather
than reactive when you start talking
about light rail and this would have a
lot of benefits for you so those are the
three stations that I just mentioned and
and around the Pickering station you can
then develop what's called transitory
and development district and really
trust try to create some value with that
area a question yes I sir I could be
absolutely could be wrong in this but it
seems to me that in the first meeting
that we had with you folks I thought you
were pretty strongly in favor of putting
this terminus to this in the highlands I
thought all of the folks said that that
would be the only logical place to do it
well we're just saying it's just
following the map that they've given us
today which doesn't go to the highlands
so if you want to go to the highlands
that's another option and so I think
going to the highlands is also a very
strong idea as well so I'm just saying
this is one
I needs to be looked at and so the value
of this jealously for the central
Issaquah you can do you can create a Tod
and that is really is when you see this
fried egg pattern it really achieves
mostly the the the objectives that you
have today was having increased density
and more urban setting and it really
becomes an impetus for a lot of
development and there's some benefits of
this by doing the the Tod you see that
list of things to get increased
ridership you get fewer and shorter auto
trips and the one that is really hidden
is you get increased property values
when you get a light rail station
typically you get at least a 10%
increase in value when you get a station
in your neighborhood and so when we're
looking at tipping points to do things
like structured parking or other things
that you would like to see in your
development area that the developers are
not really reticent reticent to do today
because they just they can't make the
numbers work so if you can increase the
value of the property you start getting
a different urban form as well and
there's this other tip you get health
benefits and economic villainess and
it's a makes it unique and different
than everything else placemaking so what
we've tried to do is then take a look at
how you'd interpret that diagram onto
this plan itself so you see that quarter
mile that's a five-minute walk so that's
most of the Tibbets area and part of the
part of gilman as well and then we do
something else we call mobility or a
district where we try to connect two
stations with a bike system to increase
access to transit in a bike ride a mile
ways also five minutes so the timing is
important because people start choosing
different modes if their trip lengths
too long so and then you get that help
that I just pointed out as well so
that's that's something to think about
because I think that's something that
wasn't anticipated in the central Ithaca
plan and and would be something that
needs to be updated as part of the plan
in the future and that's this is one
option but you may have a couple of
those as was the different as well
actually make a couple comments on that
we're Americans so I agree when the
central Issaquah plan was developed the
sp3 wasn't on the radar yet and now that
it's been passed and Issaquah is
designated as a destination for light
rail so so that in in station area
planning and what you're just talking
about at a high level is you know within
the walk shed and etc and doing
different types of development transit
oriented development opportunities and
so the question is about timing because
you could say well we could think about
it now but probably have to do it later
you really need to think about how do we
anticipate what that will do to
development in the city and then as
we're working through the update that's
happening now build in the tools that
will help us more effectively prepare
for light rail when it when it really
starts to become the conversation with
Sound Transit about where these stations
are going to be what kinds of costs are
associated with this you know what does
this whether the city's preferences etc
because if you're not thinking ahead and
preparing the city it actually gives you
more leverage if you're saying we've got
a plan for how we want the city to grow
and we've considered the light rail
factor here and this is what we want to
do and so it brings you into a better I
think negotiating place but it's it's
hard to do it now because it's so
preliminary but it is you know thinking
ahead like you said how do we put in
place the tools and or the areas of the
city where we can anticipate making
those quick adjustments to increase
density through Tod maybe reduce parking
as a result of easy access now to
transit there probably will be a need
for additional parking structures
because you begin tracking all this
traffic from the east that will come to
the light rail stations and then want to
get on and ride so you've got a lot of a
lot of pieces to really think about that
our big pieces that you've got to build
into the plan and and I you said it
better than me so and I think that's
really the point of this is to get ahead
of it
and be able to use it to inform the
development of the this district and and
figure out what are the other
infrastructure needs that you need as
well and so that's why I'd like to
follow up on Mike's question do you can
you give us some of your experience on
on what the differences if any might be
between a transit station that is a
terminus and a transit station that's in
the middle of the line in terms of
parking requirements well you're going
to because Commissioner Brennan's point
I think is extremely salient that that
the anticipation here is that we're
probably going to need more parking for
a given station than somebody that's in
the middle of the run and this is going
from the neighborhood because we're
going to get north then we're going to
get covington we're going to get a lot
of these places that are going to come
in it it depends it depends on what
origin and destination people have
because it relates to travel time and
trip lengths so because what we we
looked at what we're doing
tend to change modes so they're going to
drive in as close as they can to reduce
their travel time so it's not
necessarily the best place always to put
the park-and-ride at the invitation
because if people can drive through and
get on closer to their final destination
that might be the place where you have a
need for a park-and-ride rather than at
the very end so that's it's a bigger
discussion about what the origin and
destination is on our regionally but
fundamentally you do need a significant
park-and-ride at the end because you
have people coming from outer areas so
you're right about that but it may not
be the most significant parking right in
the region but the reality is there's a
big site already here for a
park-and-ride lot and is simply could
get bigger so there's no doubt about
that you can accommodate a heck of a lot
more cars
On The Sound Transit's site today and
it's located where you want it it's on a
state highway off of a freeway
intersection it's not in the middle of
your community so strategically it's in
the right place for you and you know
looking at all the people going down a
Maple Valley and everybody else south of
here you know it's it's not a bad place
to put it so although I would propose
have been perhaps we would want to focus
Metro on putting Park and Ride lots a a
highway teen and i-90 and maybe in
Preston develop places there those
people can park there take a shuttle the
transit station here so that all of that
traffic doesn't come in this assay might
get some of that but again it's but
every time I have to tranche ange mode
it's a discouragement of traffic so if
I've got to go wait for a shuttle bus
yeah 18 minutes but I don't want to the
Train I don't want to feel like I did
I'm doing this to make it convenient for
North Bend commuters to come in so the
other thing to think about this long
term is what we call a reverse commute
where if you create a center here a true
the center you'll find people actually
coming from the West and coming the
other direction so if Costco grows for
example as more employment so you're
going to have people and having an
opposite commute if this really becomes
a really successful district that's
envision is having a lot of jobs in this
area as well so there's some other
benefits as well so that we could have a
long discussion by transit and now that
we can go on that but I want to keep
rolling here a bit so the next guiding
principle is about housing and trying to
get take advantage of development and
I'm thinking I'm getting this right is
to get more development in your existing
commercial sites and anticipating those
turnover a time and those are prime
areas for redevelopment in the central
let's go plan at the end so what we did
is we had a discussion with Keith and
and Lucie about this and had and also
just our observations to say where was
the likelihood of getting any commercial
development there
what we identify the areas that are
stable so those are our areas own red
generally and the map might be off a
little bit but generally we think that
you know not going to see because the
development agreement in the solidity of
Costco that's not going to go and some
of the areas on the edge like the the
Sammamish corporate properties that's
probably going to be there for a while
so what we were looking for is there is
that will turnover in the next 10 15
years a maximum and so if I lined those
in blue and look for those shopping
center so you can obviously you know
this but it's mostly just for our
knowledge as well to say where are the
areas that you could get new development
in and it's considerable there's a lot
of areas whether it's infill and Gilman
or its incremental as part of the rally
a development agreement or maybe large
full-scale redevelopment of like the the
Fred Meyer and the Home Depot areas over
time there's opportunity to really
change the form of this area to get it
away from strip centers to an urban
format so the thing that struck us
especially when we start looking at the
development patterns that you're getting
right now and not hit Atlas over the
head again but what is lacking there is
a grid and what is as a result of that
grid you're getting an apartment complex
and you get monotony about it and what
the grid does it creates smaller
development parcels in really
disciplines the developer to create more
variety rather than a saying I have a
large site and I can repeat the same
thing over and over again so that's one
of the values of that and so the second
value of it is from a traffic standpoint
the most important part of this you're
not loading all your traffic onto your
arterial and collector streets but you
can diffuse it and spread it out on
multiple points throughout your
community so you don't have to widen
every roadway every time you get a
development you can spread it out
and we can create a more compact
development pattern outside we can
create more complete streets and really
then it gives you an ability to have
more 18-hour activity on the smaller
scale streets rather than these big
arterial roadways so the the next step
that we looked at is to say alright so
if we want to do a grid is there a local
model that we'd want to follow and for
are there opportunities where we can do
that grid so the first thing we said
there yeah you do you've got some of the
areas on the southern part of Gilman and
into your old old town that you do have
a grid today so it's not importing
something from someplace else you do
have a grid and so we started looking at
the grid and all 10 is that is there
something we can learn from this that we
should be maybe if we would Institute a
grid and central is Takota that maybe we
should be replicated and so we looked at
the dimensions and said alright are
these the kind of dimensions that you'd
want to see for medium or higher density
development and reality is some of your
blocks are probably too long for that
kind of development because you're going
to get these complexes again it's just
too big so typically we'd like to see
something like 240 by 240 and there's
some blocks that you see here that that
would do that so we think generally we'd
like to see no block longer than 400
feet and a minimum width about 240 feet
because that is a really efficient for
parking and gives the ability to develop
at any building type that you can think
of so with that we looked at those
purple areas and said those areas are
super blocks with large-scale commercial
parcels can we as a planning exercise
divvy these up into a grid so the first
thing we looked at is if you've got a
series of parcels that has a series of
three acre areas that you see here and
what are the the current requirements
for the central district LaPlante
currently there is no requirement for
grid at all the
there is some access requirements and it
is mostly in regard to providing
pedestrian access at a maximum with
distances between pedestrian access
through parcel at 250 feet and as I see
the diagram that I have here there's no
requirement that any of those greenways
line up or connect to each other as well
so they're discontinuous they're
incremental and often they go nowhere
and so the idea is can we change this to
give you something that is more rational
rational rational and more urban so what
we then did is to look at that typical
development pattern and say what happens
if you were to grid it up and you create
blocks that were typically about 240 by
240 and then you created a circulation
pattern in between that so you've got a
grid and so while we also suggested is
that even at 240 block is too big and
you probably still want to institute a
pedestrian or an access way so this
could be what would be called a mu or
lunar or some sort of street that you
could get to parking that you could also
walk through it could change anywhere
that you see the green and so we looked
at the percentage of street to
development area is about 60/40
that's pretty urban suburban developers
that's high for them so typically when
you get this sort of relationship
they're going to look for some sort of
incentive or some sort of way of the
city doing a public-private partnership
to build some of the infrastructure and
lots of City to want to do grids to do
that they actually build the streets and
and then the developers are responsible
for the private development so that's
kind of the grid concept so using that
concept we then overlaid that idea into
those blue areas that I identified here
and this is the grid that we have so
instead of all these super blocks the
idea here is to
at a grid and be somewhat prescriptive
about this grid again no block longer
than 400 feet no block narrower than 240
feet so that you can then not
necessarily say this is exactly what
it's got to be but at least you got a
vision and a plan to say this is
generally what we're looking for and and
not every of these streets has to be
paved it could be a green street it
could be just simply just a green way
through the middle but you do want to
have this sort of slicing and dicing
that's up so it's more consistent with
your Old Town so we're getting a little
jumping around with our slides here for
the entrants are well to the computer so
then we look at the the next guiding
principle was economic develop vitality
and what we focused in on this one was
about mixed-use projects and this idea
about words the right place
to get the right mix of uses whether
it's horizontally or vertically and then
overlay that on top of that grid so we
started off with the thing that we think
is the hardest part to get right and is
probably the most important in
developing a vital district and that is
retail because retail needs to be on
busy streets really busy streets 5,000
trips not more than 15,000 for
neighborhood oriented retail and and it
really should be the focus for each
district so we're calling these
neighbourhoods serving retail hubs and
so the suggestion is on the ground floor
of these blocks adjacent to for example
in Gilman or a major street that for
example up here this is a commemorative
Street you've already started developing
a kind of a street oriented retail
approach up here that these are where
you would have requirements for retail
you would require that there is
ground-floor retail on those frontages
and they would be as I mentioned before
have a different character so one could
be
transit-oriented there might be a
specialty hub over here in the 10th
Street and maybe this can combines with
maybe some of the stuff over off a
Gillman village so that has a different
character so that doesn't have to be all
the same type of retail that it should
be street oriented and pedestrian
oriented in those areas and with this in
mind you would have enough assurances to
require a developer if they're going to
do mixed-use retail at a building that
they do it here and you'd have
confidence that it would be viable any
questions about that piece at all
because this is a pretty big deal if
we're going to talk about this signature
street we do need to have hubs with
curbside parking with retail wide
sidewalks places for outdoor dining
after cafes within these areas within
these sections of the roadway you might
leave the roadway as it is today so it
may be it's green portal you leave it
alone but once you hit these little
downtown's if you will these little
neighborhood centers it becomes slower
to lane traffic curb side parking it's
more like going down on Front Street and
it's just a smaller version of that
um cushions very the I get the make the
impression that the City Council is
would would look at this and think
that's not many retail hubs dumb any
places where we're requiring retail I
guess if somebody asked that question
what would beer I would say this would
be required that you would not limit it
to other areas right these are the areas
that you would say it's important to get
it and you have to do it but if you want
to build more of it go for right but
this would be a sufficient for required
areas to to create these centers in and
to achieve the objectives for each of
these districts that you've laid out
because all of these have these ideas
about having an 18-hour environment
activity and the retail will give you
that and then the other piece of this is
to say with these hubs you want to
encourage housing or office above but
it's not net
- sorry - require it so you want the
retail the retail here is most important
not necessarily getting a mixed-use
building I can't you can't hear you
my dad will come up here chase you have
an aggregate of the commercial uses in
these specific areas and so this model
really replicates something that is
tried and true and we see it throughout
the region we see it through Portland as
well and the real is if you follow the
news retail is changing a lot you know
you're getting the online the big boxes
that's going to change a lot and the
stuff that is strong still it's a street
oriented neighborhood stuff so I this
again is getting ahead of the curve like
the light rail if you start planning for
the changing of the retail environment
you you can deal with some of these was
often called ghost box sites very early
the next part of this then to think
about this mixed-use is what are you
going to put your office and employment
needs of the commercial uses and of what
we can define is that they want to be on
a what we call an addressing street they
want to be on one hundred Broadway you
always hear these kind of addresses and
so you're even seeing it today with your
development so for example the the
Sammamish parkway it's on a arterial
roadway so the places were in or even
here and Heil
there are you've got an employment use
is on the bigger roadways that's a good
model to keep going to so to really
start saying let's concentrate on your
employment uses on the corridors and
also in addition to that if you've got
people who are going to coming into your
community for employment they're not
getting into this middle core they're
staying on the big roads and then going
into parking structures instead of
driving through your districts so you're
keeping them on the big roads instead of
in inducing them to go in through your
neighborhoods
yeah I have a question about so as a
requirement could you give us an example
of how what the wording would be of
requirement so that when a prospective
applicant or developer looks at it what
is what is the wording generally going
to say I think that needs to be worked
out but typically I would say within one
block of the arterial roadways for Hilah
for example from I 92 to Newport it
needs to retail we required within one
block of highway 18 there's no there's
no description of type of type of retail
or floor so minimum minimum floor space
no I think you can you can overdo it so
I think the intent of this is really is
to to really try to streamline it and
give you the ability to address it in
any number of ways but your objective is
still for example you're doing retail
you want to have that storefronts up to
the street and now you want to regulate
the character of that storefront on the
street as well and we can get into that
later about how you do that but this is
just a basic framework to tune to start
saying if I want mixed uses where did it
go because it's been sort of a moving
target and there's been this sort of
ongoing discussion that you could put
anything anywhere as long as I can get
the performer of the work and what we're
trying to do is just really to say we
you don't need to worry about that you
need to go to where you're going to be
successful through a mapping and an
urban design framework process rather
than getting into that detail on a
project-by-project basis would it limit
an applicant's ability to put retail if
they'd want to do it it's it's adjacent
to that or a block away from it or
whatever so the idea is not to say that
somebody can't do something that if
you're going to say you want to have
office this is where you want to require
it
because we know that it'd be successful
there because the next piece of this is
to talk about housing and talk about
where do you want to add housing and so
what you really want to do is you want
to get housing in these areas you want
to have an improv simha t2 parks because
in an urban situation people don't have
backyards your densities when you're
talking to your typical development now
is around 40 units an acre people are
looking for more than just a court in
their development they need a park and
the kind of the rule of thumb is for
urban density you don't want to be more
than three blocks away from an urban
amenity whether it's a trail a taut-line
Park a mini park you need to have a
green within three blocks of you so that
really becomes the focus for each
neighborhood you got retail and you got
a park and then you get the housing
close to that and then you want to get
close to transit so that's the other
piece of this so as you can see you've
got these little housing satellites
going around a park around a park around
a park around a park around the transit
so you're getting that fried egg from
the Tod that we showed you where you've
got this intensity and the housing that
surrounds emphasis so that's kind of the
idea here with this is to really start
trying to define these neighborhoods a
little bit better and that framework so
that's kind of if we were to say we're
looking for a mixed-use not worried
about it so much vertically that
horizontally and get them the uses where
they make the most sense so you can come
back and code and talk about this to say
so for example as you get a
redevelopment here
I need a bla a park that is at least two
acres inside and all residential
development must be within three blocks
of it and so you don't necessarily have
to have a prescriptive of a map as this
if that's not what you want but you
can't translate this include this in
just a guiding document to say here's
our general thought distribute this to
developers and then give them the
opportunity to either match this or give
you something better
as part of it so let's move on to well
you've got really jammed up on here is a
sense of community and so what I want to
then now jump is into some of the
architecture stuff so that is really
kind of a lot of the urban design piece
and then when we were here last time we
talked about really developing the
architectural guidelines based on four
things five things form massing scale
materials and colors and so this we set
this up is generally how we do is
checklist so if we came to the counter
to talk to the develop of to the planner
this is what you'd hand out to them the
developer and the the planner would have
a discussion about what applies and as
part of the guidelines and then the the
developer and their architect within
have the responsibility to responding
that for yes or no is comply so this is
generally the way we set this up as a
pre proposal use of the tool so you go
through each one of the guidelines to
give you just a little preview of what
we're going to give you as part of the
document so what we've then did is to
spend a lot of time thinking about this
because our sense is that you're getting
some development that is in sympathetic
to your historic character in gilman in
in the old town and in some areas you're
getting a very generic development that
could be place 'less that that it's not
necessarily bad development that it
needs to be driven in another direction
a little bit needs to be really reined
in a little bit so we started out with
going to really three areas so we're
breaking this up into what we're calling
an urban core style that really composes
for your urban core is plus a little bit
of your East Lake area and it's a quit
style and then an industrial style so
there's really three different types of
of guidelines that we want to talk about
and really
really formed the document around and so
it's a quid style would be most of
Gilman except the the town country no
it's not town country the the Commons
shopping centre and then also parts of
Darce park along little Main Street that
is evolving here and also the Fred Meyer
and Home Depot and then there's some
development redevelopment opportunities
where value villages and there's the the
building materials sites up in that area
as well so the thought would be this
corridor along Lake Sammamish Parkway is
really the organizer for that and
because of its proximity and
relationships to a lot of existing
neighborhoods we're saying that is
respectful of one type of design
approach and so what we're suggesting on
that is to be very prescriptive and
really talk about historic eclectic
historicism or 'this toric types of
buildings that have been built in these
similar situations whether it's in its
acquit self or similar small-scale
environments that that you have here
today so we've broken it up and
suggested that eclectic historicism
would be four types of architecture
craftsman which is very similar to the
stuff that you're already getting in
your Gateway development arts and crafts
which was developed at the same period
time Northwest Lodge which is a bigger
iteration because in the crafts and the
stuff works better for small buildings
and then westerns a false front which is
the types of commercial buildings that
you already have on Front Street and say
those are the only types of building
that you can build within that area so
we looked at the models and we heard
that people sometimes hold this up the
kalahari development
as when development not necessarily as
far as site planning but materials and
character that should be promoted more
and the Craftsman style really has these
characteristics it's more house like in
massing so it's compact so you don't get
buildings that are 200 feet long and are
developed in large courtyards they're
usually small bars if you will they're
typically no more than four stories and
and usually three or less and then
they're usually single-use buildings so
you don't typically ever find a ground
floor retail component in a Craftsman
style building so that's why they make
sense for for lower density or middle
density residential areas in that
district so what does that have it has
these components so you've got the
tripartite division they your standards
already talked about pitch drills a mix
of materials and then it's got other
details like expose rapper raps rafters
and brackets and other elements like
this so this is a four-story building
and that's an award-winning building of
a Craftsman style and four storeys so we
think this is more an appropriate in
this district to do more of those
buildings that they're done within an
urban grid setting and makes more sense
so you get the crap handcrafted still
work the shingles of board and batten
and the four over one double hung
windows the next one is what we're
calling arts and crafts and so this is
is really it's a mash-up of a
development style so it may have some
mission elements and may have a lot of
English elements like Tudor elements and
emphasis on rubs and a lot of
handcrafted wood elements and in stucco
and that's a characteristic so if you've
ever been to Carmel and California this
is what they're all about and it's a
claw in lots of ways very much like
Carmel and so it has that
small village characteristics to it and
so that's the idea within this area so
and again this isn't a it really the
kind of use that you would expect for
six or eight story buildings but it's
really a four or less and and if we've
got areas where we get bigger building
we need to come up with another typology
it's probably going to be something else
so what would that look like and so this
is a quarter that a project we did in it
since Lake Grove it's in Lake Oswego
Oregon so you get a commercial building
of that starts looking like this when
you do arts and crafts
it's deep pitch booths you get these
simplified English vernacular you get
these sorts of casement windows more
house style as you can see in a mix of
materials and then when you get more
intensive development this is a Avenue
in Lake Oswego as well you get some of
these so for example we were talking
about gateways this is a gateway element
and you use it sparingly it's a tower so
for example we looked at some of your
your development proposals where they
have just every part of the building
there's another Tower towers need to be
used sparingly it really should be at
really key points and so this is the the
characteristics that you see here so
this is a mixed-use commercial retail
and office above not real tall and
there's a parking structure by the way
behind this again the house elements
pitched ribs of home type of elements
like shakes and shingles integrated
fabric awnings expansive storefront
windows can be brick again it's more
house style not real tall and it has
those elements as well so you can mix
these that the point is within these
areas it's not just one style that it
could be a mix of the materials or
here's another one and this was office
above and you see this little port to
share and there's a tuck under parking
out back behind it and so that has got
shingles and and this is a mansard but
it's not even a tree ruff it's just a
master so it's just slopes up and it's
flat behind it
and then you get apartment buildings
where you get a little taller so for
example if you want to get a taller
building and really it's not appropriate
to do a craftsman and you still want to
keep some of those elements this is four
storeys and this is a full block and
this is over 100 units on this this
building but you get the sense of that
it's got that kind of character and
incompatibility with the the style of
your historic downtown Old Town as well
so that's that the next one would be
what happens if you do have a large read
of element parcel and this is a bit of a
stretch
that your senior housing project that's
in the the Gateway area has a little bit
of this element that when you get to big
buildings that are more than four storey
tall you really are starting to talk
about maybe more of a lodge and think
about well you know what's the model
that you get a building that's a hundred
feet long and 200 units and maybe have
some shape to it so this is really maybe
some of the things you'd want to have as
part of that and it would be compatible
so if you're looking for more intense
urban development maybe there's some
large elements as well that you could
incorporate so it's not limiting high
density buildings at forty and fifty
units an acre you could still do this
and then finally in particular for
infill your your damn town has some you
know wonderful fabric and it really
needs to be supported so for example if
we're talking about this extension of
gilman picking up the characteristic
affront you'd maybe want to really push
some of these historic false Western
storefront elements to it so see it's
not mixing elements this is historic
Northwest Western storefronts are all
wood you know that was the material
people had in abundance around here so
they didn't mix stone and tile it's all
wood and it's simple fairly
straightforward detailing so really want
to keep and maintain that
and think about clerestory windows
sending back doors hanging signs all
these sort of elements so that gives us
some life and activity to it and you can
even get multifamily in here this
building I probably would have painted
it I think it looked better if it's
painted but you can see this is a fairly
large apartment building in that setting
in it and it's pretty sympathetic it
picks up danam lines of you know here's
a line here the base lines up the middle
lines up and then there's got a top so
you know we've had some of the elements
you already talked about your your
existing standards so you can do density
in a western storefront vernacular as
well
so that's kind of what was being
suggested it's very prescriptive
standards or guidelines for this it's a
quid style so moving on to the urban
core so sense because you're going to
get more density here and it's more
urban through your descriptions in the
districts that it really requires a
little bit of a different type of
building and so the idea here is really
is to provoke promote some innovation
that is appropriate for dense urban and
conditions but is timeless in character
and respectful than age natural setting
in the city as well so the intent here
is now is to take a look at what do we
need by accommodating all those
requirements and these guidelines
unlike the it's equipped style are not
going to be prescriptive but rather
they're going to be descriptive so what
we want to do is describe the form the
massing the scale the materials and the
color so we want to go through these
each at a time so the form is the first
one so what we suggested would be a
simple simplified composition with
verticality emphasized and horizontal
super Street while it's segmented
logically so it doesn't become random
and happenstance but it has some meaning
so what we're suggesting is rather than
these complex
development forms that you're seeing on
some of your development proposals that
you're having today that you simplify it
a bit in form and massing you see the
this building is essentially three
masses not five different masses but
it's really a fairly simple composition
when you do need give buildings that are
longer
you can't segment it logically in ways
that look like actual buildings so
here's a building here's a building
here's a building and so that's how that
is broken up and so we're suggesting
segmenting it that way through setbacks
or through uses of different types of
materials so you establish what we'd
call an urban rhythm so it isn't
schizophrenic that there's a sort of a
musical sensitivity is what you're
moving along a street edge and then we
want to think about again also how you
have some changes and really support the
development in terms of base and middle
and top that's still a valid idea for
some areas so you see the building has a
ground-floor retail component to it has
middle of commercials of component in
the top and then think about some other
simplified forms so not everything has
to have a flat roof you can do slope
drifts but rather than traditional forms
all the time you know no doubt you could
do that you could do maybe a more
simplified expression as such as in this
building and again establishing that
rhythm along the edges so pushing for
this a little bit more in contemporary
interpretation historic elements or it
be simple like this again that's clearly
a town house and it's got very very
traditional materials shingles and
stucco that it has a more of a refined
you know expression at these on the
frontage or something like this so you
get a little bit more of a different
type of dormer so the idea here is not
to be so much looking
the past that interpreting some of those
historic elements more than in a
contemporary manner without going over
the top there are very minimal amounts
of those sorts of things so the next
piece of this would be to talk about
massing and the idea here we do do full
block development engaging the
pedestrian realm and the biggest piece
of this is to minimize the parking
impacts either putting the parking
internally in a building or screening it
in all instances parking lots should not
be allowed to be seen or viewed or even
walk through in the end this in this
district so here's a couple examples of
what that would be so this is the block
and this is a building bar and it's 60
by 180 so it's two bars within with a
courtyard through the middle here's
another form it could be a C or a you
with the courtyard internally this is on
a podium so it's raised up so it's
private that's one form as well but the
buildings that are engaging the street
or it could be a noun and such as this
so there's in all instances the
buildings are always engaged in the edge
of this of the block or in some
instances there might be two uses so for
example this is a residential
development and this is a grocery store
and then there is a small driveway with
small amount of parking here and parking
is within this structure and down below
and so that parking is minimized and
it's essentially its convenience parking
so that would be another form that we
would try to institutionalize as well
and then we then talked about the
massing so the idea here we're getting
some really moving on our slides is that
we want to have street oriented ground
floor units if you have residential
that's that needs to be a requirement on
every building that's residential the
ground floor needs to
the access not always but it really
would need it should say promote it that
you have that occurrence and so these
are the kind of things that you want to
have if you've got residential to ground
for you need a bit of a transition so
it's okay to have low privacy walls or
terraces raise it up a little bit that
you needed separation so the front door
isn't adjacent to the sidewalk a little
bit of separation is good here if you do
build up to the street to the the right
of way here's the right away line you
need to have a great transition so the
finished floor this first unit is here
and so the units are here so if I'm
walking by I can't look in Windows so
there's you can build up to the edge but
you need to do this sort of treatment
where you you separate it by grade so
what we do have mixed-use generally you
want to make sure that you do build up
to the street edge and you do have a
degree of transparency for all those
grand floor uses but there may be
instances where you do have four courts
of entries or places where you want to
have gatherings or outdoor seating so
you may want to do something like this
we have a little carve out in the corner
as well entries should be from the
street as well not parking so it would
be something like this a lobby entry if
we prescribed scale so when we've got
really when we talk about buildings that
are four storeys or more we want to make
sure that we have the step backs so
generally if we had our druthers all
your buildings would be this tall you
know really try to promote four-story
buildings throughout the district this
is a comfortable scale I think for
central its class and preserve your
views so four to five storeys would be
what we'd look at something about that
scale that length in that massing if you
get taller again talking about stepping
see that is it go above a certain height
level that you need to step back save
example 20-feet such as this building
again the public street and the building
steps back and then talk about materials
materials would like to see it's
simplified pallet of materials so that
every building doesn't have four or five
material types but maybe two most three
for this district and probably really
pushing for two material types so would
suggest that you do a lot of brick
you're getting a lot of metal panels
you're getting a lot of hardy board you
get a lot of other materials say the the
fundamental majority of buildings in
these this district needs to be 60 or 70
percent brick on public frontages now
you might have setbacks and use other
materials or for accent you might use
wood the basis might be concrete but
it's still brick the major material
metal cladding is probably okay
especially on interior areas or as
connections and we probably want to make
some description of the type of metal
paneling and the detailing of how that's
done because it's important so that that
is long lasting and it doesn't do what
we call it oil canning so if it's not
done really well it starts moving around
and it looks like a bad RV over time and
and think about other materials like
like hardy board and where to put those
and also stucco as an accent material
not necessarily a primary material so as
a way UPS is defining massing as well
and also some instances especially along
your greenways really maybe even
promoting wood so if I've got a building
that's facing the Issaquah Creek maybe
wood it's okay as well and then finally
we call it and the idea here is really
is to try to get away from the bright
primary colors they're really to reduce
your colors to light and dark colors
and really is to go to maybe and maybe
this is something you want to be more
prescriptive of so brick really works
well if it's dark in our environment
today so maybe a dark brick it and it
could be light colored brick a blond
brick of light brick cream-colored brick
and then what we want to do is then have
contrasting materials for your window
frames so generally keep those dark
rather than light so that we have more
emphasis on the punching openings and so
avoid the lighter framing that you've
seen us in the buildings and they may be
more of a natural color like a wood
color as well you can see how the use of
the colors are used here as well and
here's another application of dark brick
and this is a dark brown so that's that
for that for the urban quarry art and
then we get into the the final one is
the the route 10 area and that really
the idea here we're jumping a little bit
on this and we haven't developed a lot
of this but it may be go to more
industrial forms and maybe more barn
forms that look more similar to your
your barn and Pickering the Pickering
district in the park up to the north
maybe there's some more red and other
colors that have that reference to it so
it's mostly a metal building and low
building an industrial character tip so
it would be something like these give
these kind of buildings so we're getting
a little bit more detail and I haven't
spent a lot of time on that
so that's presentation really well we'll
come back to you on the next steps but
it is a draft document and we'll get
into more of the ways of dealing with
that that grid the street hierarchy some
form based standards for we suggest
maybe you do require ground for retail
and the characteristic at that floor so
we're going to have all of these sorts
of elements we'll talk about them as
we're front doors go so we're going to
take those ideas and really reduce them
into diagrams so that's something that
you can use as part of development
proposals and getting back into your
standards so if you've got setbacks what
how do you do that we're the fourth
story maximum Heights if you want to do
that especially along greenways and then
some diagrams have you'd actually
execute that so these are fairly generic
right now said not necessarily proposed
but you get the sense what we're going
towards and then the characteristics of
the agreement and greenways so that's
just a little kind of real quick preview
of what he'll will take this information
and then translate it into something
that's usable for you to do review
projects left ok so I'm done and open
for any more discussion questions about
that and and maybe a little direction if
we could come back and a little maybe if
somebody is okay or it clearly doesn't
want us to do something aught with any
of these I think now's the time to tell
us so that we don't develop it any
further okay open the discussion like I
really I really appreciate the notion of
trying to be more prescriptive of that's
right word on on style you know in
having areas because it I think you're
correct that we were expecting
everything everywhere and getting
nothing anywhere so the reality is
having having a sense in an even
pictorial presentation of those three
Styles is really valuable that really
made a lot of clarity to me and but I
think I think understanding of style is
really going to be valuable and getting
by off on that but I really like that
those were good we're there any of those
Styles you said are non-starter if they
haven't considered something I don't
need to think tell me now that if you
think about that you know it's a good
time to get that kind of stuff in but I
think the urban core on the surface
looked a little stark to me but at the
same time keeping in context of what
that is it it made good sense at first
ever said oh wait no I don't think I
want that but I
good to me so what we're trying to do is
really is to try to create some
consistency in and not to be so
prescriptive that again when you go into
a city like Paris for example most of
the buildings are light colored or dark
and so we're really trying to define the
district so you may say well you know
maybe in high light since they've
already done red brick buildings maybe
we should be prescribing red rec over
there so there's room for variation on
this but what we're seeing is that
everything goes everything under the Sun
so that this block has no relationship
to the next block and so it's a dog's
breakfast of every idea that's come out
you know tilted rows Peaks caps
everything in it instead of really
fighting this and trying to make it
hand-to-hand combat on every project to
say you know what maybe the buildings
because it's simply just a residential
building it's not a civic building and
maybe it needs to be what we would
describe as a background building and so
the overall composition of the district
is more important than the individual
building and then the really the value
comes out in the detailing in the
construction quality and the permanence
and the timelessness of that and then
you have an emphasis on the greenery in
the open space that really has
prominence and it's not competing with
the architecture so that was kind of the
idea what that district is really cut
really maybe try to turn down the knotch
a couple of levels so it's a little bit
less chaotic yeah go ahead so I would
appreciate that man for the year they've
been on here I think I've struggled with
trying to figure out what that what
we're supposed to be doing as far as
Sangay or native things but we agreed to
it because it matches all the legal
pieces but we're not quite sure how it
fits into the bigger picture and this
would help have a big picture to play
off of
it's kind of serendipity because I was
coming out of Dick's Sporting Goods up
there in the highlands and if you come
out they have the new townhouses they
built there and just finally got it all
cleaned up and it was just a straight
shot this little walkway between two
differ
town house pieces there's Road on one
side road on the other side middle is a
walkway with trees and it's like a
little park for them it was clean
straight line you can see everything
kind of matched and felt good it was
really other hate has just serene to
look at so the nice thing the one
architectural style that I was kind of
soso on was the the English run back in
is arts and crafts and the reason is
kind of felt too much like Leavenworth
and I think they have that kind of
German mountain town feel to them and
I'm not you know we should be more of a
Western mining kind of a logging town
than it is more than yeah you know a
mountain town yep and I would agree with
that same thing that that was the one
that jumped out at me in the Issaquah
historical the arts and crafts mean
didn't seem to be the fit with the other
thing the only issue I have on that is
if you go with the the Craftsman style
is really difficult to make it work for
buildings that are larger than a garden
apartment they're going to get earthen
development that is let's say it had
full block development if 400 by 250
foot block and he wanted to do a hundred
foot long building in a Craftsman style
it's really really tough tool but they
want the Northwest lodge work for that
as you point out yeah that fits us
better to the code and I just we already
happen to have live and I you know we
offered that to say let's not box
everybody in and so that you're not
going to have everything look the same
because part of it really the beauty of
your old town is the eclectic nature of
it and so once you start getting
everything the same that's our fair and
we said at this point let's offer more
than last and so do you want to take one
off the table we have no we have no care
for that I I think well I I don't mind
the arts-and-crafts I think I think you
can offer a lot of richness especially
at that street level but I think mostly
what I want to say is I would like to
add to the list yeah and you start to
touch on it at the end but I'm stricken
by our
agricultural history in the structures
of utility and mining so I guess I
wouldn't limit that notion of urban
Grange to to these larger structures can
we get those on the parcel based
structures as well I think especially if
that light rail hub terminates in
Pickering place you know that's the
vernacular over there to what degree of
success they've done it over there I
think is open to interpretation but I I
like how it feels over there and I think
it's really going to activate that area
so could we introduce this notion of
agriculture oh yeah
we're already on a Bethan I think it's a
good idea okay man thanks I have a
question for staff so the meeting that
the next meeting that we have with you
will we be able to get see whether it's
a PDF or hardcopy
a couple of days before our meeting next
meeting so we can not have to be just
reacting to the thing that niya sure I
mean I just like we haven't seen any of
this I know I know I know Lucy I just
know the next one we can we can we can
provide that to staff and they can do
what they want to do is I I liked
everything I saw but I just I would like
if that's going to be the last meeting
that we have the DC has to put input a
priori into this I'd like a little more
opportunity to just look at what they're
going to we're going to see that well I
think what we discussed with the team
was that they really needed to hear your
feedback and then go away and we'll
likely work on more of an outline basis
to try and identify sort of the
structure and elements and that would
certainly be something that we'd all
like to look at ahead of time so that
you're not shooting from the hip and
then probably bring back that another
round this actual draft
and would that in the next thing that
we're going to see would that give us an
idea of what you're proposing for the
properties of adjacent to the creek yeah
so what okay yeah thank you so we're
going to so we're going to create this
draft document and I've doctored this up
a little bit because we and what we want
to do is identify reviews of rounds of
reviews so what we want to do is come
with a towards the end of May more or
less and expanded outline not
necessarily all the detail but give you
a sense of the structure in the form so
here's generally what the document is
going to look like and not necessarily
have it all written out or have all that
the final pieces of it and get it by up
on that and then through the next you
know maybe every three weeks or so add
more so they we can get your reaction to
it and through through written and we
can deliver this to key you can edit it
combine it into one document and then we
can get back and forth on it so I
my sense is rather than us finishing a
draft and delivering it to you and
saying now you missed it by a large
margin and come back and rewrite it if
we get your constant involvement as we
develop it would be better we agree
did you folks get a chance to see the
surveys that the city does that I don't
know if this may have been brought up in
our first meeting with you but have you
have you seen the surveys that the city
government sends out to determine what
the priorities are and what the what the
treasures are I think I may not have
seen it specifically seen but I've seen
some that information that Randi just to
make sure that we know so would they
have seen this quad treasures they've
gotten that list in terms of I'm not
sure there's we've sent them any surveys
so I just want to make sure I understand
are you thinking of the one that's
happening in Old Town are you thinking
of the citywide
both actually but it seems to I seem to
recall getting two or three surveys from
the city and I understand I understand
it used to be at least every other year
sometime back but it's the point is as I
recall it it's very consistent over a
long period of time about what the
citizens identify as the priorities for
the town and I would think that
something like this it would be an
important element to be at least be
aware of because it does go back and I
don't know if they're even available
anymore but I remember when I move here
I got one I was sent one and I was
tremendously impressed by the effort and
again my understanding is it's very
consistent for them however many have
been done it's always the same time for
six things there's a citizen survey
going on right now and I think Street
know citywide oh okay good and I think
that is the results I saw it on the
council agenda for June or something I
think that yeah there was also one for
the front Street redesign that involved
public you know public meetings and and
here's what we heard and then we can't
went back out there and it's uh it's a
very inclusive right the that's in
progress right now right the old town
one I think we are trying to make sure
that the different districts have
different characters so I think the
question is how to use that information
so we're not but I do think I think some
of the things that came out of the old
town meetings and so forth and the
preferences that we saw even though it
doesn't have to define all the other
districts could be very helpful in terms
of a citizen see for Old Town and might
see in general for the city as well to
give you some ideas between because
there were things about refer this not
this kind of thing to get input would be
awful after all so throw and I did like
the light and dark idea especially after
dealing with Atlas blue
and now you tell it's late in general I
hadn't thought of that before but
keeping those those light and dark tones
I think in those larger buildings could
make a big difference yeah keep it
simple sometimes as you know if the
background building said you know it
doesn't have to be you know the focus of
you know their lifetime achievement
project every time they develop one they
think does it have to be different you
know it's not a showroom for material it
seems to me the interesting things can
be at the ground level you know where
it's the pedestrian level and so forth I
did I did find out I think with agreed
with the chair somewhat that a few of
the buildings that we saw for the urban
area seemed a bit stark to me one of the
things I didn't see a lot of or
balconies and I don't know if that's a
if that's something that can be worked
into the larger buildings or we can talk
about balconies but I was the reason I
avoided some of those things because
they tend to get in the way of the
concept that I'm talking about because
people say oh I'm looking at the balcony
I wanted to talk about the form and the
massing and so that's part of the reason
I show you some of the stuff that's a
little bit stripped down because you
know I didn't want you to get distracted
by that but clearly if you want to see
in more definition of buildings and use
in the terms we can do that as well that
we you know have no problem with adding
some that and we've got any number of
images that we show you as well what I
really appreciated the distinctiveness
of the three areas that you were
defining and that that really helped me
a lot and so I can live with some pretty
stark looking stuff in one in like an
industrial area with it when when you
look at at the Issaquah and get the
urban I can deal with some urban core
stuff that's pretty stark when when you
add on the architectural details that we
probably see in his quest style and
industrial and that rather liked that I
thought that was really important
clearly defined space you know I think
that a lot of the comments that we've
gotten from the public is that we aren't
building anything that is distinctive
you know that really defines Issaquah
I think both is a quest style and the
industrial can do that really well yeah
the Industrial looked like we had or
were I think we call the historical
district the Gillman these part of
Gillman was included in the industrial
right type they owed and we all have
wondered if that's a conflict I can see
on the north side of i-90 industrial
there but we had the industrial
characteristics in the route 10 is out
of him yeah and that you know is a front
street right yeah mm-hmm yeah we're
nothing up here I kind of was relaxing
and a grain grain that's what I wondered
I was thinking what I was thinking more
historical highway type stuff and can
that fit with or your ideas of
industrial so well well well I was
looking at and thinking about it it's
really kind of the land use stuff that
they're looking at and what we've seen
people do so for example it was a
destination restaurant hub for example
under one roof you've got five or six
restaurants with food court we see that
a lot or it's a you know a combination
of wine tasting and culinary school
those are the kind of things I think
would be really viable there a Roadhouse
food 66 sort of idea I'm not quite sure
what that is and I'm not sure how fanuc
that is to this area so I need more help
on that I guess is what I'm we've
struggled to really get a definition of
what that is and so anything that you
can provide us and help us out with that
like you talked about this agricultural
stuff was a really good idea and I think
some of those ideas were good there's a
little agricultural store over there
mm-hm you know there there's things the
grains you know and there's there's
agricultural throughout this region and
people come here yep for this and that
so I think it's an important component
to address and so so maybe it does reach
up that way then there's also bones up
there you know and do we tip our hat to
that at all you know and maybe that's
covered in in the craftsman slash arts
and crafts it sort of in there's
we're but I don't know it is a tough
little pocket yeah so my tendency is to
try to just morph those or errors
together with the is a quiz style and
saying about anything go is over in that
area and maybe through just descriptions
we say you emphasize this in the old
route Han is an agricultural vernacular
because I could offer it as in that in
that egg culture you can almost blend
together that cultural and industrial at
the same time that exact you know the
restaurants in the ball game type is in
there we're really reticent to do a lot
of you know historic recall has really
got a half you mean to be prescriptive
about it you really don't want to import
it that you've got a you know front
street in the old town is pretty strong
and I think you've got a really strong
rationale to say you're going to do
these styles and and I think in that
area as opposed once you get over to you
know beyond that and into the core
there really isn't you know any
rationals and because it would be
imported in a V falsus tourism because
there's not a context for it that was
that's how we did the division it's
tough to pull off by the way it a little
tough yeah it's tough I have a question
just on a practical implement
implementation what comes first do you
set up the gateways and then there's
there's infrastructure let's go into
place and then and then how do you
handle and grapple with something like
the Home Depot that that block the super
blocks over there that are so massive
and start to break them down question is
you know there really wasn't any sort of
instruction in the Central District life
plan that says that we want to wasn't
clear to me it says we want to see
permanence of the big box the buildings
today because you see a lot of applique
on them today you know you could get
along freeways and you see a Walmart
with the you know these add-ons to the
entry zappy cruft and a little bit of
wood on it and you know a little bit of
stoner
the entry but essentially it's still a
big box and we can make those
suggestions if that's what you you want
to have to soften these buildings in the
meantime wouldn't know they're not any
problem doing that the question is does
it further just keeps them there longer
and maybe you really don't want them
there
I don't know it's just one of those
things and on top of that there's this
whole sort of corporate identity you
have to work into and to play you know
Lowe's likes blue you know they're going
to want to have a lot of blue stuff you
know Home Depot wants their orange and
so it's you can tell them no but is it
is it is it worth fall on your sword for
and if you want us to do that we can do
it but the I'm sorry nope yeah that but
the so the idea is that this is going to
be guidance but for a long time if we
can once with once this get in place
this is going to help the long-term
planning and ultimate maintenance of the
identity of the city so when it comes to
that section with the Fred Meyer and the
Home Depot with the way things are going
who knows what big-box retail is going
to be ten years from now five years ago
15 so my understanding is that what
we're looking at here is not necessarily
altering what's there now but getting in
place what we want it to look like if
and when there are market driven changes
to the present use peplum is that
correct yeah okay you've got it in SS
does it force that yeah we're hard I
don't do it mm-hm
and and can I just throw one thing in
because talking about Fred Meijer and
Home Depot makes me think of this the
way the code is written right now is if
they're doing something to it they have
to bring it into compliance to the
greatest extent feasible so I think the
question is you know as we as this
evolve
what is the expectation for those
buildings that stay as they do various
you know add-ons and changes are we
trying to do those incremental
improvements that Don was suggesting or
do we just leave them alone during that
time I mean and I'm not I don't I'm not
proposing anything I'm just saying
that's something that we need to
consider as we have these things that
might be around for 10 20 30 years
before they redevelop I'm kind of a
proportional compliance requirement that
make a certain amount of investigate
investment a reinvestment it triggers a
certain level of upgraded code and it's
not a problem for us to say if you if
you're going to have an improvement to a
big-box and it's in the old itsuka
district how do you apply some of these
eclectic elements to that we can do that
I mean there's no problem with doing
that it's just a question of I think you
probably want to do it on white side and
maybe there's a lot of images and not be
always say use these kind of elements
okay and it's more suggestions I've just
a couple of kind of step back just a
little bit you put a lot of information
up on this moon tonight and I'm trying
to kind of process and what's in the
scope and what's out because essentially
you were talking about redefine street
grids changing building heights
redefining a character the different
areas within the central is a quoi plan
and that's a lot of big moves that you
put up there and I'm just I guess I'm my
practical hat on here is what's
realistic here to try to advance within
this moratorium period and then what's
the strategy after that to continue to
evolve the plan and make it work more
effectively and deliver on the concerns
that the the community has been
expressing so I guess that's my first
kind of big question about you know kind
of what's realistically within the scope
of a change that we're contemplating
here so what we talked about was when we
talked about what you had today is you
have a lot of policy and they have
standards and guidelines but you didn't
really have a framework to base as on I
remember it shows you that you skipped a
step what we did is
a quick we need to fill the step in and
so you could what we're saying is this
is just we're going to give that to you
just for your consideration but we
needed to go out here to come back
because now we can say you saw what we
meant by a grid now we're going to give
you a block standard and it's based on
something that we've tested rather than
in the ether we just pulled it out of
our hat and so you can see how we
applied it so we're not going to we're
going to strip a lot of that away we can
give it to you for advisory information
but it's not going to be that much stuff
we're going to just focus on that kind
of stuff like Harry's people that on the
property where those lines are going
through and so it creates a different
conversation out in the community and
you haven't had a public discussion
about that stuff you haven't had any of
that but it gives you a framework for
how we're going to get to some really
staccato concise elements that talk
about a grid form massing scale and all
those other things that come along with
it and a rationale for or you're going
to require grandpa retail so that helps
it so some kind of specific feedback on
some of the things that you talked about
at the beginning you talked about kind
of that kind of Issaquah Creek and kind
of the natural environment that we're
trying to take advantage of and you've
got buildings now that turn their back
on those and the idea of taking
advantage of those and integrating those
into the kind of the designs in the
construction of the buildings that
happen we're actually facing out and
having dining areas or restaurants or
even residential uses that that open out
onto those spaces so instead of the back
of the building feeling it's actually a
part of that I really like that idea I
think that's a smart thing to really
take advantage of the assets and and
that's part of the experience we want
people to have with whether they're
living here working here or visiting a
restaurant so I think that was I like
that I like that suggestion or idea the
the idea about the grid system the one
piece about the separated pedestrian
through block connections that I think
is kind of what we have in lining that
up and so you have these longer
corridors
that people can get off the grid of
traffic and have a more kind of
pedestrian friendly less intense
experience I think is a good idea and I
know we've talked about the green
necklace and trying to do some of that
but I think figuring out a way to more
specifically particularly the central
core area build in those kind of green
open spaces and how you connect those
together to create that experience like
you talked about where within three
blocks you need to have some public
amenity for people and that concept I
think really is attracted to me too I
think that that makes a lot of sense I
like the idea of defining where the kind
of employers are where you want to try
to concentrate the retail and then the
residential because the what you do with
development in the framing of the
development in those areas is going to
be different to attract that kind of use
and then it took allow those uses to be
successful uses too so you don't try to
smoosh them all together all the time
then you lose that separation at
character so I like that idea and then
you plant those seeds and you start they
start to grow and then it can become
something even more later once they get
a foothold I think this idea of a retail
these retail unknowns that you define so
I thought that was good and then back to
the stuff that we deal with a lot the
idea of you know finding these kind of
architectural styles and showing some
images that reflect the architectural
styles I think is really useful I think
for us the idea of clarity around
building form and what we need and I
showed some good images and I'd like to
even from the concept you're saying you
know in the urban center we're looking
at for use much simpler sorts of
building forms but that doesn't mean
that's ultimately the character you get
there you do a bunch of big blocks
that's boring but you do some things
that are more interesting but you have a
style image and style that you're trying
to get to so those that was really I
think interesting and another part
that's particularly a concern is the and
been frustrating is the definition of
what materials go where we just get we
got the major list of stuff in a metal
siding wood siding last
you know Etha you throw it on a table
and it goes so these the idea of really
durable materials particularly in that
urban area like using brick as as a
primary or stone or is it gives a sense
of longevity and you really do get
longevity out of those buildings when
you're applying those sorts of materials
and so I thought that being more
specific about material what materials
and where they're allowed I think is
also will really help the character
definition that you talk about - so
those were my thoughts as you were
throwing all those things out there
there's some good I think there's some
really good ideas that will be really
helpful yeah so so we'll be really
prescriptive about those sorts of things
and we'll talk about it and so for
example if we want to have stone at the
base we're going to say for example we
say it cannot be half-inch Munir you
want to depth to it and then we'll show
you an example it says this is
appropriate this isn't because sometimes
if you need to see what's inappropriate
because it's really clear what you don't
want to have as well so we'll give you
what's appropriate and what is
inappropriate so we'll talk about that
as well so pick up on that same idea for
colors would you can consider specifying
a color palette of primary and secondary
colors and any parts of this or is that
too constraining I don't know yet I
think that that's open for discussion I
think my tendency is to say yes and to
really try to limit colors so for
example if you can do metal rusts you
don't want red or blue or orange you
know you want to you know a darker color
maybe silver maybe you know so that
they're not dominant so it doesn't look
like an IHOP you know it's sort of all
more of an accent yeah mm-hmm but in
certain areas this is an agricultural
characteristic maybe Reds okay you know
there's a you know a barn
I don't know well think about that so I
think it's got we need to think about it
a little bit but I again I think one of
the
better objectives is to really to think
about how buildings are in an urban
environment you have more background
buildings than special buildings and you
reserve the special architecture and the
special differences to public libraries
or City Hall Hospital housing doesn't
necessarily need to be the most
important building every time it's built
it needs to be part of the fabric and
that's what successful neighborhoods are
so you know it's more about the
accumulation of the neighborhood rather
than a specific building and being
contextual and respectful what's your
environment in your neighbor and we want
to push a little bit on that you know
the time that the buildings in the urban
design area in some of the forms that we
saw one of the things I think that in
thinking about it that seemed to miss
Tammy on some of them was the lack of
sloped elements you know you did show
some sloped roof lines a lot of them
more and more box-like and I think part
of the thing in Issaquah it's the Alps
around us and the slopes define our city
in large ways so I wonder if some ways
it can be incorporated in terms of say
window coverings or not even doesn't
necessarily have to be a sloped roof but
sloped elements in the building design
somewhere that can tie into those vs
qualms I think we can't do that the
reason why is typically when you get a
bigger building you get especially like
an apartment building there's a need for
lots of mechanical equipment and other
things and and typically those go on the
rough right so that's the value of
having a flat roof now that doesn't mean
you have to do that and we can do slopes
you can do Mansour's you can do you can
do pent houses you can do all sorts of
things you know in our sense it's yeah
you do want to have a slope and then
also it's just the width of the building
too so if you've got a 60 foot wide
building that's a lot of rough yeah well
not it'll I said not even not
necessarily the roof per se but even if
it's even if people are providing some
window coverings that are small sloped
window coverings that can break up a
verdict
mass in a way I guess they're sort of
recall the slope of the hills yeah
and I agree with you on that but again
you know you start a slippery slope when
you start getting into this and all of a
sudden you got this applique and then
you've got some of the buildings that
you got today where they said you know
just stop me before I design again
because I got everything in the stock
Andre I know it's just but I guess our
point is in certain areas you want to
show a little bit of restraint in any
you say yeah you can do that but you got
to make it you got to convince me why
it's a rationale to do it and we'll give
you some ways to do that but I think
you're right we need to give you a
little bit more to give you a little bit
more variety in the building okay
I my reaction is I just have to restrain
my enthusiasm because I do a good job I
don't want to be I don't want to be
overly excited about this I just think
this is exactly what we have been asking
for and more and I'm very very
enthusiastic about this and I I didn't
see a single thing that was a in terms
of a style or a concept or whatever that
I saw is it there was nothing negative
about it I really appreciate the
definition of the districts and the
matching of the architectural styles and
and the concepts of linking them
together the the one thing though that I
just think has to be that has to be very
clear is how that how the different
forms of traffic are going to connect
and that we do no harm we don't that the
ultimate aspect of this is that that
there is at least a maintenance of
existing movement speed and efficiency
true through the districts and and
that's the
that's obviously that's what everybody
wants but getting it is going to be a
challenge with the growth we've got
ahead and particularly with the SD three
stations coming in but as far as the
rest of it is concerned I was I'm
tremendously and impressed by it so I
you know I think you're right and I
think you got to maintain the regional
facilities but the grid helps you
getting people to change mode to take
transit to take bike tricks and walking
it because probably right now you've
probably got ninety nine percent of
people are driving you want to get that
down to 75 or 60 so as you can absorb
growth your traffic volumes aren't going
that are locally generated you it's
tougher to control the regional trips
that's what I'm saying
you need a concept that says we're going
to reclaim our core and see where the
regional trips are important we need to
maintain those but maybe we don't have
the there on the edge outsides and not
on the inside
and so that that's it's a we're pushing
the scope here because that's you know
we're talking about it but much more
traffic analysis and much more public
discourse about these roadways but it's
a concept we want to maybe distill what
we showed you down to maybe a much more
of a diagram because part of the yeah
I've talked enough about for the
rationale for this and I ask one last
question just about you know let's let's
fast forward movin 30 40 years down the
road communities like this then employ
these these tools become very self
selecting communities you know you
talked about Carmel but I would cite
Palo Alto Boulder Colorado yeah these
types of places tend to become very self
selecting and in order to inhabit these
places you have to hire a guy like me to
help you navigate how to get anything
done so I think in essence it forces
mixed income or lower income people out
of this city and so I think the question
is how do you address
mixed-income low income for the
long-term does my question make sense
yes it just becomes this boutique
precious place and and that's that's the
the only pitfall I see in in creating
something else special it's out of scope
for us but I think it's an issue that
really needs to be addressed and well
because we've been doing this I've done
affordable housing studies for housing
authorities around the country in in we
know this is not a unique situation and
it's really it's a policy decision and
it's a funding decision and it's also
then figuring out where you going to
what you're going to wear you're going
to pick up the land and build it
bottom line is you you know inclusionary
zoning and other things like that is a
good thing to do but in the end if you
want to have a range of incomes in the
city that's seen an elevated cost you're
going to have to build you may not ever
catch up but at least you're doing some
so I know what else it is that the other
advantage is that you do give people to
not spend all their money on commuting
and cars and driving if they can walk if
I can take transit so instead of
spending five six thousand a year on a
car I maybe throw that into rent and
maybe I can afford its place like this
okay so it's not an answer but in it and
I know it's it's not necessarily a
responsibility and I know it is it is a
largely a policy discussion but I have
seen you know it has that potential yeah
you know the it's just a nature of
planning you know you can either be
reactive or proactive and you choose and
be proactive I mean and those are the
places that last you know you could say
yeah we're going to be very affordable
but it's kind of you know it's because
it's nobody we really want to be there
and how exactly I mean that's it's a you
know it's a tough decision
yep all right thank you uh-huh I think
it's obvious that what we're pretty
excited about what we've seen I guess
the I guess the thought that keeps
puzzling through my mind is how do we
what what are the steps or one's the
mechanism to
to make sure people understand what
appears to be a pretty good change at
where do we where do we go from here and
that and I know we'll have a draft but
how do is there a plan to have public
meetings to talk about this or to show
that I don't know and the reason I'm
asking is I think that I think there
would be a lot of people who come to
these meetings regularly it would be
really excited about what they're
hearing so so these are open to the
public and well we appreciate their
towns and I know that I know that at
least a few people are watching because
I'm getting text so what I would say is
from here and I do want to answer my
question so that was a good one it was
kind of schooling around in my head the
one related to scope I mean I think I
think what we heard tonight about
architecture is was probably clearly
with everybody's expectation that that's
what one of the things that we were
going to be doing but as you kind of
then pivot to urban design that's where
you potentially can fall off the edge of
the planet right I mean what do you put
in that box in what you put out you know
some of the things that I heard and I'm
I'm having this so that they can maybe
start to focus on what they thought was
you know the things that the pieces that
are key to moving forward with this
particular project you know the the
orientation to the King County trail and
to the creeks was definitely one Orban
design element that was kind of primary
to this I heard ground floor units
having direct access out onto the street
as being key you know there's probably a
few other nuggets that are worth kind of
spooling around on and talking about
priority you know as it relates to some
of these other pieces you know those are
important I mean I think as we start to
then you know how they then go from
potentially a concept like you know the
so the street grid that they've shown on
a map tonight is not consistent with
what's in the plan and so the question
is is what do you
do with that inconsistency at this point
and are we are we making any
recommendations on revisiting the
transportation portion of central
Issaquah plan or not coming out of this
we certainly can I think part of what we
need to assemble over the following
conversations that we're going to have
about this is what are these pieces do
you guys want to latch on to and try to
effect changes on I think you know as we
started to talk about urban design
things like balconies and access direct
access to the streets we're kind of the
low bar that we want to make sure we hit
but then how far above that we go I
think we can somewhat figure that out as
we move forward with this and part of it
may be based on some of the next the
next iterations and I wanted to at least
key in one of the things that I think
they said was this is this is not you
getting a 100% draft document next and
saying okay you know just go ahead and
and put this on a shelf somewhere I mean
I guess I would equate it more to
getting like a 10% set of drawings and a
30% set of drawings and the 60% of 90%
so that it evolves along the way to the
by the time the final draft comes in
everybody's feeling comfortable with
scope and kind of what we chose to bring
forward and whatnot now it could
ultimately be that we have this design
manual but then maybe there's a set of
ancillary recommendations that this
commission might want to make to the
City Council for 2018 work items 2019
work items 2020 work guys yeah so so
that's I guess I would leave that one
it's kind of an open door Mike I think
it was a great question to ask I think
it was kind of spooling around in my
head too but that I think I needed to
say that so Richard I think in terms of
public process so where we go from here
there's another conversation with the
council you know once we get kind of
things moving forward a little bit
further and then ultimately we're
talking about code revisions so that
goes to planning policy commission and
so there's other opportunities there you
know the good thing about moving
six balls forward at the same time is is
these conversations should then affect
the conversations about district visions
neighborhood visions as we start to
potentially you know as you guys start
to resonate on yeah let's you know let's
differentiate the eleven hundred acres
of central Issaquah into maybe three
distinct architectural zones to start to
create some distinction within that
overall area well okay how does that now
jive with the districts and the district
and because what we're trying what we're
hearing out of the districts is you know
people want to have some distinction
within those neighborhoods to you know
have a sense of place have a character
that may differentiate maybe a
neighborhood south of i90 from one north
of i90 well architecture has a lot to do
with that and so we need to start to
kind of weave some of these pieces
together along with parking and
affordable housing because I don't think
we want to be Vale you didn't pick Vale
you pick Boulder and I'll go with Vale
although Boulder similar so I think I
mean I think all of these things start
to fit together it's a lot there's a lot
of stuff moving this year related to the
moratorium it's all really good the
reason why we're doing these things on
TV is so that there there is a video
record as well you know we I know I've
told a lot of people to watch their
presentations there's a lot of things
that they say whoever said I'm a was
Randy there's a lot of information
tonight there was a lot of information
tonight I mean it might take a day to
kind of unpack some of it and start to
you know get some sense of you know what
it all meant to us so so all I'm saying
is we're kind of figuring this out as we
go if you guys feel like there's needs
to be some other public opportunities
let's talk about that because I don't
think we're opposed to that but I don't
know that we know what that looks like
just yet there's there's other public
conversations know if it's it's next
week I think
some vision there's vision conversation
what happening one on may tenth and one
are may 26 ones that atlas so there's
one being held at Atlas and one being
held somewhere else my apologies I'm
sure it's on the moratorium page I
showed you guys earlier so part of it
will be as we talk to the community
about the neighborhood visions be
talking about the what's what we're
hearing in the architectural piece as
well I mean it all needs to fit together
Ryan you had your hand up
oh yeah I was just going to make a point
about you brought up connecting north
and south i-90 and just if you had a
proposed solution for that I know there
is you know you have friend Street 900
then there is like a little under way
but it's kind of designed kind of
strange then getting to the Costco side
you have to drive all the way north all
the way to cross over so if there's
something to hold that and we kind of
rushed over that will give you that
because I think there's really at least
two crossings that you need to make one
would be related to light rail and the
other would be another roadway and
that's all in your central is clip some
of the roadway stuff of it we thought
about that a lot okay we'll do that
so procedure is our next look would be
maybe May 25th but that would be our
last look as a I think we have to
revisit the schedule okay son because if
we're going to do two touches and
outline and so it may be so part of it
is we need to talk to them now about
next steps you know it may very well be
that we get like a draft and then staff
goes through that with you guys has a
form of conversation and then we then
Skype a conversation with them so they
don't have to come up so many times I
can only afford to transport them up so
much yeah as I think towards the end
will be very helpful the mechanics of
our decision making process your applies
complies checkbox and those kind of
things in suit because because the end
is we've got to give you a product that
you can use on a project-by-project base
to review a project and and that's our
sole focus is really is to provide you
that tool to do it and to provide as
much as we sit in the first
predictability as possible for you and
the developer so that you know the games
are the rules and so we'll get there
it's just one last thing I would say
though I would really push on a grid
because it really defines everything
from the architecture to the access
points and there's lots of ways we can
do with the grid but you know you have
none today and it's really the
difference between urban places and
suburban places is the grid if I say if
you got one thing out of this process
and nothing else it would be the grid I
really want to push that right now so I
don't want that to slip away and to say
oh we can't do that because we you know
maybe zone change we haven't had enough
discussion about that I'd urge to have
the discussion because the grid is a big
deal my my big deal my one hope ultimate
hope is that this process will allow me
personally when it comes to decision
time to have far fewer reluctant
positive decisions yep and has been a
case of - now yeah because you want to
be able to say when you review the
project it says this is what it said in
the guide you either comply - you didn't
that's why I'm not voting for you or I'm
going to prove it because it's
consistent with the what's in the guide
oh just on the emphasis you just made on
the grid out of all of the concepts that
you can vote up that's the biggest lift
by far and change that you're suggesting
and you think about the current street
network that exists in the super block
condition are super super blocks in some
cases they're huge
and how you create those kind of through
connections for vehicles and pedestrians
etc it has to happen somehow but I think
that's a big policy conversation that
maybe staff and
you and maybe you know in some contact
with what the council need to think
about how far we want to take that
conversation now yeah that's a pretty
big community conversant
define a grid you're going to have
you're going to struggle to talk about
active edges pedestrian ways and how
buildings relate to the public realm
unless you've got a grid we can distill
it down and make it generic so it's not
specific to to pursue the specific site
and give it enough flexibility so that
can change depending on things but you
need to have a framework which these
buildings sitting in which these open
spaces relate to and because without
that you've got what you got today well
you know yeah I totally understand the
concept and I agree that you need that
that's the urban environment I mean
that's what you'll find in two
successful cities is the you know the
smaller blocks have got big blocks
they've got through connections and the
loud pastor eats them to move through so
you don't have those long hikes you've
got to make to get from one place to
another it just it's just a strategy
that needs to be I think thought through
how do we get from where we are now to
start rolling that conversation out and
eventually figure out how to make it
happen and how to fund it and et cetera
it I also believe without it we don't
have as much ability to have street
suite level commercial on those
buildings because then you kind of cut
off two edges that you could have had
plus the pedestrian walkways you can
move traffic through there by having
more pedestrian more bicycle pathways
that are outside of the road traffic so
it would make a huge difference in the
way people interact with the environment
any other comments commissioners well we
really really appreciate it we're
excited we're encouraged really feels
like you're going right way and so we're
looking forward to what then what the
next meetings are going to reveal so I
guess with no other comments I would
turn the meeting all right thank you
thank you
okay you want to save this somewhere
you