welcome to the Monday August
if council committee work session we
have three items this evening after each
of the three we will be taking a public
comment we do have a change in order
this evening due to some staff
compatibility issues schedule-wise that
we're going to need to move
transportation concurrency to the front
but the good news for those if you are
here for the Senior Center update is
that you won't have to wait until after
the solid waste services recycling
conversation so it's a bit of you know
we do what we can so with that let's
move forward with I do 297 I'm sorry I
do 266 transportation concurrency with
City Administrator moon director Lin and
Torsten our consultant
that's wrong one I went to right away
good evening
Emily moon interim city administrator
I'm gonna kick off tonight and then turn
it over to Torsten our consultant and at
the end children will be back up to
assist with any questions if you have
them directed at him as opposed to
Torsten tonight just a quick overview on
what we're gonna cover I will certainly
try all right
the purpose of tonight's presentation is
to provide you with a briefing on the
results of the concurrency models
technical update that's a data run of
the system and we're gonna review what
the scope of work was that was included
in this year's work plan and the related
budget allocation and how that fits in
with the more comprehensive view of our
transportation concurrency so first we
just wanted to give you a quick rundown
of what tonight's plan is what we're
going to be covering and what we're not
and this includes the scope of work from
this year's project so this is the
required update from our municipal code
updates the model based on land use and
provides data that we use to update our
traffic impact fees this is not the
scope of work that involves looking at
policy goals or the methodology used in
concurrency we wanted to give you a
sense of where we are on concurrency
system and also why we do concurrency so
the state growth Management Act requires
jurisdictions adopt a level of service
or l o s standard for their
transportation systems state law
requires that improvements for example
streets sidewalks bike lanes and the
like are needed to maintain its akua's
adopted L OS or level of service are
installed at the time of development or
that a financial commitment is in place
to spend the collected fees on
appropriate transportation system
improvements
the city uses a computer model to
analyze what motorized and non-motorized
transportation projects are needed to
maintain the adopted el OS and it common
date projected growth the city then
accepts rejects prioritizes those
transportation projects through adoption
of a capital improvement plan when a
development is proposed its associated
trips are compared to what is available
in a citywide trip bank if the
developments trips counts were
anticipated and are within the citywide
trip bank balance its deemed to have
past concurrency and it pays an impact
fee into the citywide mitigation fund in
2013 the city did a major overhaul of
its concurrency system and made changes
to policy and the system overall and
those changes were implemented in
January 2015 we call that some that
system the simplified concurrency system
so if we use that term that's what we're
talking about
was that overhaul in 2015 and the
process we use today that simplified
concurrency system includes a list of
capital improvement projects necessary
for the city to be concurrent these are
projects that are just a subset of our
overall transportation improvement plan
I also includes a traffic impact fee
that developers would pay for
concurrency it includes a policy stating
that the city would be able to use these
fees for any and all of the projects on
the list and that no improvement project
is tied to any specific development the
system also included reaffirmation that
the city would have to provide funding
for its share of the improvements costs
and that the city would need to build
the projects the concurrency policy
states that a technical update of the
model ensuring new development and trips
impacts are modeled and that we should
perform that update every three years we
commence the model update in 2017
but it's completion was delayed as staff
worked on multiple projects including
the building moratorium and as we were
coordinating modeling with other
planning efforts tonight we're
presenting the results of that update
the models output is used to update the
list and cost of eligible projects which
then become the basis for an update of
the traffic impact fees so a reminder
that our transportation component of our
capital plan which we also refer to as a
state required tip or t IP or
transportation improvement plan includes
both concurrency projects and non
concurrency related projects the dollar
figures on this slide are from the TI P
adopted in 2013 and from the prior
concurrency update the TI P has been
updated since that time and therefore
these numbers will change as we move
from the technical update we're
discussing tonight to the subsequent
update of project costs and impact fees
in 2014-2015 when these figures were
first shown the city estimated that our
concurrency project obligation could be
met through a combination of grants
other city funding sources and developer
fees so at this point I'm going to turn
it over to Torsten lina and tor cents
from ch2m Hill
he's the consultant that has helped us
to update our model thank you
thank you so my name is Torsten if I
used a technical term that you don't
understand or if I say something that's
confusing please don't hesitate to
interrupt and ask me to explain okay I
try not to but every once in a while I
get stuck in it okay so as Emily had
pointed out we did a technical update of
the concurrency system so there was the
policy update that we did in 2013 that
was eventually implemented in 2015 and
but this go-around was literally taking
the same concurrency system and just
updating and the things that we updated
include getting new traffic counts to
make sure that we're keeping up with
growth both regionally and within the
city so we went from a 2013 baseline to
a 2017 baseline all of our counts were
collected in 2017 and then we looked at
land use so where did we go from land
use that was planned in 2013 that is now
built and maybe some land use was
planned but is no longer going to happen
those types of changes and updates we do
that technical update but we don't we
don't do any policy land use changes so
we're not contemplating new growth
somewhere that we didn't contemplate
before okay and then lastly network
changes so anything that might have
changed in that CIP that Emily had
mentioned over the four years we make
sure that we are consistent with the
current t IP and that the concurrency
system reflects that first and regarding
the land use is do we assume build-out
at maximum capacity we assume it's not
maximum capacity but we do assume a what
we're calling it build-out of the city
it could be higher than that but it's
the amount of land use that we planned
for when we did the 2013 update so it is
more than what is vested so there's I'm
gonna go into the three land use
categories
we've got existing land use that exists
and is on the ground today
then there's land use that's been
approved by the city we call that
pipeline or vested growth that's been
approved but it isn't built yet and then
there's the land use that is planned for
but there's no specific developer or
application into the city for that land
use it's just land use that we're
anticipating may occur and we are
planning to occur by 2040 ok then it's
that third category where my question is
and so when we get to that maybe okay so
I'm gonna talk first about the land use
changes and there's a lot of numbers and
bar charts and everything on this
graphic it's a little busy but I'm gonna
try and break it down for ya and the
thing I want to concentrate on first
well first the three bullets the the
land use things that we did we did talk
to the city of Sammamish and we got an
update of their land use since 2013 we
always get their land use because part
of their city is in within our model
window so we want to make sure that
we're reflecting any growth or change in
land use that's occurred within the city
of Sammamish that impacts Issaquah and
so we did obtain that and we updated
that land use within our model window
the other thing that we did is we went
through all the concurrency certificates
that had been issued since 2013
so that's development now that we are
considering vested or pipeline that's in
the system has been approved but isn't
built yet
so that land use was updated in the
model and then finally towards the very
end of the model update the staff and I
got together to talk about the fact that
the talus and Highlands development
agreements are either expired now or
about to expire and so we wanted to
account for that change because all of
that land use had previously been
assumed as pipeline or vested growth and
with the expiration of the development
agreements we moved
some of that land use from vested to
future growth and I'll talk about that
now as I go through these graphics at
the top of the page so the first thing
to note is the color scheme on the two
graphs on the top the blue is existing
land use the orange is vested land use
so land use that's been approved but
hasn't been built yet and then that gray
box at the top is the future land use
note that on both the commercial graphic
and the residential graphic that the top
of the two bar charts each one comparing
by the way to 2013 that the top is
roughly the same and it should be
because we weren't reinventing land use
we were just moving land-use around from
whether it's vested to existing to plant
basically documenting what happened over
the last four years there was however as
you'll note a very slight increase on
both sides and that was land use that
was approved over the four years that we
did not plan for that was not in the
system at the time of 2013 but that we
want to definitely account for now
okay so again very small change but but
note that overall the land use did not
change and the only change overall is
land use that actually happened so it
wasn't a policy decision to change
anything it was just land use that that
came in the door yes okay so for
commercial oh I'm sorry you need to be
by the microphone to answer like sorry
marketing that for commercial it is
square feet and for residential its
number of units okay Stacy thank you
Torsten the I don't understand what the
significance
of those hearts are like why is that
important for us to know so what I
wanted to point out is now the
significance is let's start with the
commercial land use
note that the blue bar got taller from
2013 to 2017 something you should expect
some of the pipeline development that we
had planned for in 2013 actually got
built and is now impacting the street
network so there are cars on the street
related to that development so the blue
increased and the orange got smaller so
basically all I'm showing here is that
we moved land-use from the orange box
from the vested to the existing and that
reflects then that is reflected in the
2017 traffic counts that we obtained so
we're trying to match the new counts to
the increase in existing land use okay
and yet the aggregate of existing plus
pipeline has gone down so you moved some
units from pipeline to existing but you
moved some from vested sorry you have
some from vested to basically invest it
correct and so that is the Highlands and
the talus expirations so what happened
there was they were vested before and we
didn't want to just get written out that
the development agreement is expired we
didn't want to get rid of the land use
because we still assume that land use is
going to occur but it is no longer
vested so we want to move that into the
planned pile you bet so that's the
difference between the two I won't go
into the specifics of the numbers but
you can see how things change so there's
a more drastic I guess change in that
Orange Box for commercial land use than
there is for residential but it was all
basically it's it's an accounting
exercise making sure that we've got all
the land use in the correct box and why
it's important is because the gray box
at the top of all of these is what we
can charge an impact fee for we cannot
charge an impact fee for the orange
or the blue box okay so that's why it's
absolutely important that we get the
numbers the counting correct on this
exercise so these match below if you
really like numbers yes sir it's a quick
question the reason we can't charge
impact fees on the orange and the blue
is because we already have correct the
orange has definitely already paid an
impact fee and part of the blue has paid
an impact fee okay great okay so how the
top graphics match to the bottom is only
if you really want the very specific
numbers you should be able to match the
2017 the to 2017 bar charts to the
numbers you see in the table below so
for instance the residential looks on
the bar chart like it's around 26,000 at
the very top if you look at so the
column labeled 2040 total under
residential you'll see the exact number
is twenty six thousand six hundred and
forty four okay so that's how you can
match the two tables together the only
other thing I want to point out is this
box off to the side on the far right of
the table is the land use that we can
charge an impact fee for so that's the
planned land use that hasn't already
paid an impact fee Torstein just walk me
through for Issaquah total residential
units you've got in 2017 you've got
sixteen thousand seven hundred and fifty
six correct and you say in the pipeline
is twenty thousand four hundred and six
oh and the twenty forty total is the
twenty forty pipeline plus what's left
correct
okay it's so there's a delta so the
between the sixteen seven and the twenty
thousand for that three thousand sum is
new growth minus CI in villages and I'm
like where's that growth gonna be oh
there's only ninety three right units
which is what I would imagine so the
other thing to take away from this table
on the far right is note where the
growth is occurring so for the
or much of the growth it is all in the
central is Squa area okay
that's these sets of numbers then
because of the expirations of the
Highlands and talus we did now
accommodate some future growth there so
that's growth that is now planned for
but was used to be vested and then
finally we have a nominal amount of
growth outside those two big urban areas
in the rest of the city about a hundred
units of housing is the public allowed -
no I'm sorry we don't actually take
public questions during this part but
you're welcome to I'm gonna take public
comment when we're done with this item
and if you have comment that you want to
make at that point you'll be welcome to
do so okay any questions about the
glazed-over numbers all right okay so so
that was the land use the other major
thing that we changed besides traffic
the updated traffic counts and the land
use was looking at where did we make
changes in the network so if you
remember back to Emily's introductory
presentation there are projects in the
TI P that are considered concurrency
projects and there are projects that are
non concurrency projects so you'll note
down the side of this graphic the list
of projects are not numerical one two
three four five
there are missing projects the missing
ones from the TI P are ones that are
considered non concurrency so I didn't
reproduce them here so I don't want you
to think that we missed something or
forgot something they're just projects
that are not considered concurrency
projects in order for it to be a
concurrency projects project it has to
add a vehicle capacity not so non
motorized projects unfortunately are not
part of the impact fee and that's a
state statute it has nothing to do with
in Issaquah policy it's you know a state
law okay all right so the numbers again
down the left side of the table
reflect
the current TI P project numbers and in
the map that's shown on the graphic if
the number is in a red box
it matches the current TI P any numbers
that are in a blue box are projects that
were in the 2013 TI p and that are no
longer in the current TI p and so those
were changes that we needed to discuss
reconcile talk through and figure out
what to do with for this update okay so
i just reproduce the list for you if you
want to go you can go through each
project if you want i'm not gonna go
through the detail of that but basically
all the ones listed on this graphic I've
got five slides coming up all the ones
on this particular slide there were no
changes on the then sequentially
continuing in the TI P this list there
were three and I'm gonna go and they are
the three blue boxes that are on the
graphic so we'll start with project 2020
which is at the top and it is located at
the intersection of East Lake Sammamish
Parkway and 56 there was a project in
the 2013 TI P that included a pedestrian
bridge over crossing that allowed us to
remove the pedestrian crosswalks at the
intersection so that pedestrians could
cross it at a second level and the the
addition of those over crossings of
pedestrians allowed us to remove the
minimum green time at the intersections
that allowed a pedestrian to cross the
road which allowed us to call it a
capacity project even though it was
really a non motorized project but
because it allowed us to retime the
intersections removing the pedestrians
from that calculation it was considered
a capacity project at the time in this
year's update the project isn't in the
TI p
and it's not for us I guess necessarily
tonight to argue whether it should or
shouldn't be in the TI P because it has
nothing to do with concurrency but
certainly you can decide whether you
want to put it back in the TI P but what
I do want to tell you tonight is there
is no longer a need at that intersection
to have a great separated pedestrian
crossing for capacity reasons now there
may be for safety reasons or for
connectivity reasons or for many other
policy reasons that you might want to
have that grade crossing but from a
capacity standpoint it's not needed and
therefore I can't unfortunately
allow it to be an impact fee project so
that one is not for policy reasons but
for technical reasons being removed from
another hot list yes what was the change
that made it not a capacity related
project so it has to do with a lot of
things so the changes in land use that
occurred and then also the traffic
counts that we obtained at that
intersection between 2013 and 2017 might
have changed such that then the
additional growth that we added on top
didn't force us to have to remove the
pedestrian timings from that
intersection so it could be a number of
reasons but for for those multitude of
reasons it and it was borderline before
in 2013 the need to do that pedestrian
crossing so so at least at this round
it looks like it's no longer needed all
right any other questions about number
20 again I don't want to say that
project isn't needed it's just not a
capacity project anymore there's two
that's let's keep going thanks okay okay
so I'll go to number 24 next is in
intersection it was some turn lane
improved
that are needed at that intersection and
this one I'm a little wishy-washy on I
think it was that that project has been
included in a separate t IP project and
it's the maple 12th yeah okay so that
one is right now we're showing it as not
included because it is no longer in the
city's t IP list and so and it was also
not needed for capacity reasons anymore
so we did not include it again it's not
I want to go back to Emily's if you
remember her graphic in fact let's just
go to it we are at and so this is
basically informing council of the
results of the modeling and then this is
your opportunity to tell us no you got
it wrong do something different before
we move into the next steps so this is
an example of
[Music]
we are from our analysis we're showing
that that project is no longer needed
from a capacity standpoint but it may be
needed for other reasons and it may be a
policy reason why you want to keep it so
this would be your opportunity to tell
me Torsten you got it wrong
put it back in remember Ramos just to
see so I'm assuming those two
intersections are further down on your
chart service levels yes so cuz you're
saying that's what would take them out
say you're saying that on its on its own
from then till now the level service has
improved from E to a D or whatever or it
stays below its either level service D
or below but it was if it was in the
previous one it had to be the
improvement was needed in order to
maintain a level service D so you're
saying that level service has improved
over the last four years it has probably
because traffic counts reflected a
decrease in traffic at that particular
intersection between 2013 and 2017 and
therefore that improvement is probably
no longer needed I'm I could you go to
the chart and look at those two day
intersections all right we're here so
that is intersection 1970
it goes correct
okay so intersection 70s on this page
almost at the bottom so it's level
service be today and it in 2040 we're
projecting it will operate at little
service see and what Emily just wanted
me to point out or remind folks is that
it could also be a reflection of with
the change in land use and the change in
transportation projects that traffic has
rerouted a different way and no longer
wants to use this intersection has maybe
chosen a different route to travel
rather than this one and that could also
be a reflection of why that improvement
is no longer needed they said but you're
saying that's a B today projected to go
to the C correct okay and the other
intersection look at both of those I was
often maple and then there was also this
Sammamish it's like Sammamish pedestrian
it was at number 20 yes
yeah 20 so number eight so d today and D
in the future it's number eight on this
graphic up here or on the table now I
want it I want it I know this is a
really congested intersection and the
natural instinct is for everybody to go
there is no way by 2040 that
interception is still gonna be operating
at level service D I want all of you
guys to remember there are 285 million
dollars worth of projects built into
this okay that allow that in even though
we're not doing an improvement at that
intersection we're doing improvements
elsewhere in the city that allow that
intersection to remain a level service D
so people are using other ways to get
from point A to point B in the city just
not through that intersection anymore
okay okay but that's a D and remains
indeed correct versus it does get worse
but it's within D yeah thank you
tell us a member goodness Thanks so you
said this is our opportunity to tell you
maybe that you got it wrong yes oh how
is how is it that we are supposed to
you're out from this information how you
might have gotten it wrong well I guess
what I'm saying is I can tell you from a
technical standpoint and this is gonna
sound really pompous thought I got it
right what I'm telling you is from a
policy standpoint tell me that I got it
wrong so in other words maybe at that
intersection the one that's got a blue
box 24 where I had previously included
some right turn pocket improvements even
though I'm saying from a technical
standpoint you don't need it but maybe
from a safety or a political reason or a
you know policy reason or whatever you
want me to include it then by all means
this is your opportunity to tell me no
Torsten I want you to include that I
think it might have been helpful for us
to have some of that detail before the
meeting so we could have at least
prepared to try to answer the questions
about and maybe tonight isn't and maybe
I said that wrong too maybe you don't
have to tell me tonight but this is this
is me communicating to you where we are
and if at the end of tonight you say we
need time to think about this that's
fine I could have given this to you
beforehand but you would not have
probably gotten the singing out of it
without me telling you about it
right sure it could have come with a
memo to that so some explanation about
how we could have prepared even though
it's technical information and a lot of
numbers a little bit more about what you
might be looking for from us would have
been helpful to have pre meeting because
it's I mean I think it's probably
certainly impossible for me to say oh I
think you got number 20 wrong because I
for my memory know remember everything
about that intersection that might help
me inform myself about whether you might
have gotten something wrong so including
it does not change really any of the
calculations but what it does do is
moving forward it puts it in that impact
fee basket of projects that we include
so that's really that's really what's
important so so I will then have a
question for interim City Administrator
moon which is if this council wanted to
have a little time to think about this
what that looks like in terms of when
you would want to get feedback from
council sure excellent question and we
haven't discussed sort of timeline for
next steps some of the next steps
include updating the projects in the
project costs and certainly we want that
input before we do that but I don't have
a timeline for exactly when we're going
to begin that work tonight is just meant
to be briefing on what the the model run
had to say those subsequent
conversations about how projects are
changing or what the prioritization is
of those projects we do need it
scheduled I don't have an answer for you
right now but we can certainly provide
that after the meeting what our intended
timeline would be okay and I think
understanding then Council the mechanism
for council provide that feedback and
when we as a group will be discussing
that feedback integrated in deputy
council president Bateses
thank you and this might be a question
for you Emily I'm not I'm not sure but
in regard to the three that we have
highlighted or the two that we're
looking to take out would we receive
more information more detailed
information about this is being proposed
to be taken out because this improvement
this improvement and this improvement
are going to impact that intersection
like detail that would be really
specific to those two to help us sure
make a better decision okay thank you
that's not a winter's time Thank You
Torsten it sounds that like through your
analysis you made certain results
approached or passed certain thresholds
and in/out decisions were made
algorithmically
and yet you're saying that we maybe we
can tell you you're wrong so again I
want to say what I did was from a
technical standpoint it the ones that
I'm talking about I'm either gonna tell
you they're needed or they're not needed
from a capacity standpoint okay and that
is what I was charged to do a technical
capacity change okay the the things that
I'm telling you guys is you always have
the power to say well okay I get the
technical reason but there might be
other reasons why
Torsten I don't want you to take that
out okay so what you're saying is based
upon your calculations and their impact
to capacity the state statute doesn't
limit us our decisions on what's in or
out just upon that that's correct shoes
to be in and out for other reasons
absolutely okay yes it's just whether or
not it's gonna be in the impact fee
calculation or not council member Ramos
yeah and just a clarification and maybe
for the public as well the difference to
me if it's in the calculation or not is
that if it's in concurrency then that
becomes a funding source for us to pay
for that improvement correct if it's out
then we have to find our own fund
somewhere else to pay for that
improvement and that's a critical
difference not say we can't do it we
can't do anything but it's a funding
source that makes a difference whether
it's part of the concurrency then those
impact fees can go for those projects if
they're not in a project list those
impact fees can't go for other projects
yes with one distinction so again back
to number 20 that one whether you keep
it in the TI p or not there is nothing I
can do to include it in the impact fee
calculation because there is no capacity
benefit associated with it 24 is
different
in that even though I don't need it to
maintain a level service D in ursula
Ville Service adding the turn pockets
will certainly improve the capacity of
the intersection and so I can call it a
capacity project and we could still
collect an impact fee towards it but it
is not needed in order to maintain a
level service D optimum winter's night
okay thank you
yes let's go back to my previous
question and we were discussing whether
or not a project was in or out Bill's
question helped clarify a little bit
further it's in or out and whether or
not it's on the TI P but it's still your
algorithm that says whether or not it
qualifies for impact fees correct other
questions right now all right we have
one more I'm sorry one more project on
this map to go through now well two more
but number 31 is another one that was on
the previous 2013 tip it is not in the
current 2017 tip and I don't understand
what happened or why it's not there but
I'm gonna go to the next graphic and
show you that from a modeling standpoint
this is that pride the project that I've
circled in blue or the road that I've
circled in blue is that project it's a
brand new road it was needed to allow
this the CIP amount of land use to occur
and so from this graphic also I wanted
to point out the amount of traffic it
carries is you know between like 1,300
cars during in a one-hour period on any
one link so it is a significant project
it is needed to maintain level service
in the city and so I again I'm pointing
out it I've included it in the modeling
if you agree and that is a technical
recommendation and I'm giving you all
I'm saying is it needs to be added back
to the to the 2017 AP it's probably just
an oversight it got left out by accident
whatever we just need to make sure that
it gets back into the TI P
okay so hi
so it's needed it was required it sounds
like for the centralist plan and it
would carry a ton of capacity correct so
how do we how do we tell you that that
sounds like it's probably a good idea to
keep it how do you tell me I think
through your next month or two that you
debate these three things that I'm
telling you about you just confirm yes
Torsten you got that right
it's needed technically we understand
that get it back into the TI P it cuts
them off right so if we don't put it
back in the TI P what does it do to all
of your downstream so that one if I that
one gets removed I would need to rerun
the model without that link and rerun
all the intersection level service it's
a significant effort and so I'm telling
you from a technical standpoint it is
needed he was first compliment of Ramos
council member had two men cup cities so
this one I get concern about because
that's a Rican or its construction of a
whole new Street that doesn't exist
cannot exist in musters major
redevelopment right other private
property owners decide to do something
so it's something we have like very
little if any control over and to put it
in there and saying that has to be done
and if it's not it blows the whole model
out of the water basically I get real
nervous in that situation because
there's no way we could just decide that
we're gonna do that so by ourselves I'm
sorry to interrupt you I don't think and
you staff you guys correct me if I'm
wrong fights misspeak I don't think you
guys as a council would say hey guys go
out and build that project for me right
now even though the land use isn't here
yet because Torsten told me we're gonna
need it sometime
that project realistically would only
occur once you start getting development
agreements in that are adjacent to it
and then that at that point the
developer would be dedicating land would
be and and then the land dedication
would become
a credit towards the impact fee and all
that so it's it's a hand-in-hand thing
you would you would build the road once
the land-use is there and is needed and
and allows that road to to get built
does that make sense except things all
around that could be built to not have
that room get there yeah there might be
a might redevelop the other side not
yeah there's always things without that
road it really is a critical piece when
you're totally adding a new road to
something or not correct realize though
also you do have 10 years you know let's
say one side of the road a developer
came in and decided to do something
there the road wouldn't need to be built
for it you know statutorily for at least
10 years so you have time to then
hopefully get the other side to come in
and develop and then you get the road
built together and so that's you know
how it the arete eclis works there a
theoretical number hunt did you still
have a question so there are 231 s and
220 pours on the list yeah so the 230
ones is that because it was previously
31 and then I came off the TFP and it's
been replaced by a new 31 correct yep
Thank You deputy council president
booties I guess that was actually my
question with the the 230 ones and I
just wanted to make sure that we we have
those broken apart that's the Providence
point intersection and then we could be
talking about something in the future
that's erosion so the blue 31 would be
let's say it goes back into the TI P it
would become a new number comes my first
time my ask of staff would be about this
11th we've done some things with land
use and for example required mixed use
and I I'm not sure where that ik where
this Torsten is map even I couldn't
figure out exactly where that Street was
on the numbers I know it's east of 12th
and and have we done things recently as
specifically some of the work items as a
result of a moratorium and requiring
some land use like vertical mixed-use
have we done anything recently that and
did we consider this project this this
31 with the green check on it that's not
I you don't have to answer me tonight
but I'd like to know it seems like it
was in and then we lost track of it and
did we do anything
after losing track of it that we may
have done differently if we had been
tracking it hopefully that makes sense
I'll rephrase later but I'd like to get
a that might be a simple yes or no
actually it might be a simple no but if
it's yes then I would like more
information thank you councilmember
Goodman I'm not sure my question is
similar to Paul's but I'll probably ask
it a different way so Torsten you made a
comment about this project allowed us to
do the land use that allowed us to do
something with our land use so there was
the big central Issaquah plan effort
okay so that there's a large amount of
land use associated with that plan
that's future land use and this is in
that area and so there is land use
surrounding that particular project that
was assumed to occur by 2040 sure that
was my question so I wanted a little bit
more detail about what it is that this
allows us to do that makes it necessary
and again I don't have to have that
detail tonight and the reason it might
be similar to Paul's is because I'm not
sure if it was from the original
centralized physical plan or some of the
changes that we just made okay I wonder
why I just might ask interim City
Administrator moon do you have clarity
on what council members we understanding
Goodman have asked for I guess I do
great thank you hey one last project the
other 24 that's on the list is a current
CIP project
the TI P currently does not state the
red word which is an vehicle or
vehicular however in doing the update
with staff this past year we understand
that there is a school district
potential project located on Holley that
would potentially request or require the
connection on Holly's so that there is a
vehicular connection over the planned
bridge project rather than just a
pedestrian non motorized connection on
that bridge we so we put we in the model
we turn that link on to allow the
vehicles to use that link and only so
that you would have information tonight
about whether that's an important
project or not so I'm going to provide
you that information right here this
blue circled link in the model is with
the assumption that there is a vehicular
connection on Holley all the way through
so you can see that the volumes are very
low so the only I would say from a
capacity standpoint it's not necessarily
needed and I wouldn't say that we need
to include it in this update but from a
development perspective or you know I
don't know a negotiation with the
district school district I don't know
what the you know what the mechanisms
are there that would allow that to
become a vehicular connection I'm just
telling you it's really not needed it
really doesn't impact my work moving
forward but I wanted you to know that
this is what the model is predicting
that connection to to reflect in terms
of vehicular traffic sounds remember ray
so I'm not just wanna be clear on the
numbers that we have on this these
charts they are trips per
in the PMP gower so it's our overall on
our period okay the highest hour in the
day the M peak PMP okay so we don't have
any M date or anything like that
that has been an ongoing conversation in
the city for a very very long time
indeed for this to what to do about
known areas that are likely a.m. peak
but yes for the 23 years every year too
we asked this question so the 20 years
I've been working on concurrency the am
issue has come up over and over and over
again and what we have done in the past
and what we continue to do is when there
are specific developments that come up
that need a significant traffic analysis
we always do an AM peak analysis and we
derive it from our PM peak model so we
reverse the trip tables which is a I
know a technical term but we're
basically taking trips that would go in
one direction in the p.m. and making
them go in the other direction in the
a.m. and then there is the a.m. is
slightly lower than the PM historically
overall in terms of traffic volumes and
so we do a little reduction associated
with that we've always done a test and
have shown that the transportation
improvements that are needed citywide
always accommodate the a.m. peak hour
time some equipment well I want to add
there is one weird little asterisk right
which has to do with schools right
because it's not during the peak right
and so typical people so you don't any
Ana model like that if you just took the
PM and reversed it you would miss what's
going on around the schools because the
a.m. peak occurs right when people are
dropping their kids off correct
however there's 5 million square feet
and I don't know how I forget 26,000
housing units in the model the number of
trips associated with schools compared
to that 5 million in 26,000 is probably
5 4 or 5 percent of the total so it's I
don't want to say it's insignificant but
it's not
a huge number unless you're at Newport
in Iskra Hobart row lets you experience
that particular intersection right
that's a very good that was my exact
comment and also I think doing the
counts in the mornings is significant
for this stretch here I mean it's a
short stretch okay and then projects 36
37 38 this slide just has the last three
projects and the TTIP that are
concurrency considered concurrency
projects but there were no changes so
nothing really do you say about this one
okay so with all those changes I wanted
to give you sort of a both the
historical look at traffic growth in the
city and then of course the change in
future growth from the 2013 update to
the 2017 update so the firt on the bar
chart the first four are obviously all
existing volumes that occurred in that
year so I went as far back as I had
traffic volumes starting in 2004 2007
2013 was the last concurrency update and
then of course this update in 2017
you'll note that there is a growth in
existing traffic that's occurred over
the years the orange bar reflects what
we call regional traffic and I'm gonna
define that for you it is a trip that
originates and ends outside the city but
goes through the city so it is not a
trip that has one end outside the city
and one end in the city so if you work
in Seattle but live in Issaquah that is
not a regional trip it is only a trip
that passes through the city never stops
and has no end within the city limits
that's that orange bar the majority of
that orange bar is i-90 okay
I asked I'm surprised to see that at the
fidelity that we're looking at this
right now that regional pass-through
does not has not increased since 2007
and does not look like it will increase
through 2040 right there is a lie in the
face of the perception of regional past
absolutely it is absolutely opposite of
what you would perceive or what would
you what you would think would be
occurring realize that over the years
this aqua has continued to grow and has
provided land use here that has become a
destination and in 2030 and in 2040 for
those years you have continued to create
land uses that are destinations for
people in Sammamish or Bellevue or you
know outside I 90 so there as long as
one trip is destined to or originated
from Issaquah it is not in that orange
yeah but it but if I think Snoqualmie to
Seattle Snoqualmie to Bellevue right
North Bend to Seattle or on our regional
streets Black Diamond to Bellevue
Covington to Bellevue Maple Valley to
Bellevue but those aren't those
increasing over but you're always
assuming that it's somebody living and
I'm putting words in your mouth but let
me check if I'm right that someone is
living outside of those Bellevue Seattle
areas and working in the Bellevue
Seattle area realize that you are
creating jobs in Issaquah and that is
the whole point use going up right
correct it's surprising to me that the
Amber is not increasing is right but
you're replacing people are no longer
wanting to drive that 15 mile stretch
they might live out you know past
Issaquah 990 but now they're not willing
to go into Bellevue or Seattle they want
to work in Issaquah so their trip is
staying roughly the same over time that
changes yes
that's member good so that assumes that
all of the commercial build-out that we
have in our growth plans because what
we're finding is that that's not
occurring as fast as a residential so
there's some so there's it could be also
reasonable that we don't get all of that
that's correct so this is assuming that
all the plans pan out for what we vote
yes and I'm really glad you brought that
up that is the reason why we do these
technical updates every three years to
make sure that we are in line with
growth as it's occurring as opposed to
growth that we hoped would happen is if
you go back to one of the first slides
doesn't it show how much we have for
left and residential correct how much we
have left in commercial and we have a
vast amount of commercial that's right
assuming that I'll get that gets built
and the people that are now passing
through decided I don't want to work out
I don't want to go all the way I stopped
here right yeah and we did find in this
four year period that some of the
commercial became residential some of
the growth that we were hoping would be
commercial became residential and that's
reflected and that's the reason why we
do these updates we never want to get so
far out that our assumptions are
completely out of sync with what's
really been occurring and so that's why
the code requires this update every
three or four years to make sure we're
keeping in line with what's actually
happening even though we might have
planned for something different
does that make sense councilmember hunt
so I was also struck by the fact that
the orange is with a region where there
is roughly the same although there's
nothing in 2004 and then since 2007 it's
all increasing so or it's all it's all
the same and I wondered what what if any
information about the neighboring cities
land-use plans is included in this
because we do know that some of our
neighboring cities have their own plans
for growth yeah so so what information
goes into these projections so the
Issaquah model includes a portion of
Sammamish in it so that one I mentioned
to you we did reach out to two Sammamish
didn't get their land-use make sure it
was updated in our model the rest of the
region so King County Bellevue Seattle
and anything else that would impact or
have influences on traffic coming in and
out of the city we got those traffic
forecasts from PSR C and then we made
sure that the growth that is planned by
PSR C for all of those agencies those
other cities the traffic that's coming
in or out of the city at the boundaries
of our model match the PSR C model so we
are making sure that we've got that
Regional Growth accounted for as it
enters our model window or exits our
model window does that so if there are a
large number of residential units plans
on one side of Issaquah and then jobs
plans on another side of it squad does
it account for the likelihood that those
people are going to be regional traffic
or does it portion of those will go
outside the model window because we have
defined from the PSR C model that there
is land-use outside of our window and
that is and so there's an attraction for
a job to be to be linked to a home
potentially outside of the city but some
of them are going to be linked to homes
inside the city as well so it is it's
both
other questions
I'm still struggling a little bit I was
just talking to somebody in black
diamond they were talking to me about
the massive growth that they're
undergoing right now yeah and I'm just
struggling with the idea that that
growth will be matched by the commercial
development in our city such that the
pass-through of that massive growth in
black wouldn't increase the land doesn't
increase the regional pass-through so
just to pick on black diamond I mean
know and I'm down there I'm actually
glad you picked on black diamond because
when we did the 2013 update we knew that
there was that massive growth planned
for black diamond and in fact when we
went to the PSR C model to again like I
said get that model window numbers
coming into the city from outside we
noted that the PSR C model did not have
the amount of growth in black diamond
that was that had been expected or that
we were hearing about so we actually
took the PSR C model added the land use
in black diamond that we knew was coming
after talking to the city and then
that's what we used for our you know
model window now since then that's been
updated so it was really just a lag in
data getting from black diamond to PSR C
to make sure that it was you know in the
model I think that but back to my
earlier question right there's still
tons of growth going on in black there
is and it's your professional assessment
that our build of jobs is going to keep
pace with the growth of housing in that
area well it's not just Disick well but
yes you have five million square feet of
commercial growth that's planned that
hasn't been that is invested yet but
it's planned and then there's still
about a million almost two million
square feet invested commercials so
between the two million that's already
vested and is coming and then the five
million that's planned that's seven
million square feet of commercial space
that you're planning for so that is a
lot of a lot of commercial space that is
job jobs all right okay any other
questions before we move on yep
councilmember Goodman I just I just have
to say that I'm concerned about the
number of assumptions that are that and
what I'm concerned about the number of
assumptions that have to be made to have
that know numbers like that the orange
pastor look like that because I I think
it would be very difficult to find it
anybody in the city besides six people
who would say yeah that totally makes
sense because that's not what you think
that's not what the experiences and I
just don't believe that we're gonna
build enough commercial space to take
care of the pass-through
traffic and they're still they're still
gonna come into the city so I think it's
a I think it's a still a bigger problem
than the chart shows and I'm not gonna
disagree with what you're saying cuz I
know you know that there's always a
perception that's different than perhaps
reality another sort of pass-through
trip that you should think about is a
trip that the home and a job that are
both outside of Issaquah but they
stopped at the Costco on the way to home
or they stopped to pick up their child
at daycare or they stopped to pick up
dry cleaning any one of those is a is a
trip that is no longer in that Orange
Box because they stopped in Issaquah
okay well now it's starting to make a
little more sense yes they're still on
the road they're just not in the chart
correct but they are using in Issaquah
resource on the way but it starts to
take out too many cars out of the what's
actually passed through traffic I mean
it's right but but realize that has
nothing to do with the impact fee so we
don't I mean I know you guys are
focusing
that orange box a lot but again it's you
know it really doesn't impact
necessarily the impact fee calculation
sure we just have to we just have to
have some at least simple comprehensive
understanding otherwise we really won't
know what we're doing and so I think we
do have to dig into a chart like that
and understand what's in it what's not
in it what's the what the assumptions
are because I I can tell you I cannot go
out on the street tomorrow morning and
tell people that it's it's basically I
mean over time at least existing today
2017 it's about one third I think that's
I think that's really believable I don't
one third of the traffic going through
Issaquah has both ends outside of Vista
quad that's a huge number yes but what
I'm talking about when so when you
further define to pass through as not
including pass through that makes a stop
here then those numbers start to make
sense so right I'm just trying to
understand the why why blue and orange
don't make sense and so you know based
on my reality and I'm hearing what
people behind me say because that's
reality if anybody who drives on the
streets you're gonna you're gonna know
that we've got a lot of increasing
regional paths through traffic for all
the reasons that we've talked about so I
have concerns about where we're getting
our numbers is P SRC really the best
source concerns about what the
definition is of regional pass-through
type of traffic and what's not regional
pass-through dropping so I'm just trying
to understand all of this because it
when you just look at this and you just
talk about it a high level it doesn't
make sense that's all Council member
Ramos yeah I'm gonna pick on this a
little bit more because it just doesn't
fall so we've been saying this for a
long time pass through traffic is
causing our problem and you got twenty
thousand going into black diamond you
had
we've had 10,000 or more going to Maple
Valley Sammamish coming there and those
are coming through and we just did is
guar Hobart Road study and that study
just showed that well I forget the
numbers now is it's sixty five percent
of those come were going through don't
quote me on but it was you know I'm
probably two-thirds or so were passed
through traffic now if you got tell me
is they come through they pull off at
yummy yogurt and get a cup of coffee and
keep on going
you're gonna now not count them as
pastor traffic that doesn't make any
sense to me
because their parents do so if they you
know if they sit at a stoplight for more
than you know two cycles then they
wouldn't be passing traffic either to
get a cup of coffee I mean it's the
point is they're passing through if you
stop for you know a cup of coffee it
doesn't count that that bothers me in
that sense yeah but but those numbers
flowing that you're saying it's all
within the city and that's you know all
the growth is within the city none of it
increasing with all those numbers
growing around us and that's being the
funnel here at i-90 it just it's really
hard for me to to get to there when when
I when I see what's going on and we
actually have numbers onions call hogar
Road study to actually show that at
least that one corridor so I I just look
at that some way differently yeah just
some degree I wish I hadn't shown the
orange box because honestly honestly I'd
semantics and it really has no impact on
what we're trying to accomplish here I
know that you have a very strong feeling
about what's regional and what's not the
fact that I cannot call it regional the
way I'm defining it to be not regional
in other words it has a destination
point in the city allows me to collect
an impact fee and allows you to get
money to build projects so the fact that
I'm defining it the way I'm defining it
is better for you if you want to define
it a regional trip as a trip that
originates and ends somewhere outside
the city and stops in the city that's
fine
but I'm gonna do I'm gonna define it the
way I define it in order to allow you to
collect the max
amount of money to build projects in
this aquire does that help I know him I
know
deputy council president Batista
so thank you that I was just going to
follow up on that but that I think that
that helped answer my question but I do
I just wanted to echo some of the
concerns that councilmember Goodman
spoke about in terms of the commercial
and the jobs and some of those
assumptions in regard to taking a look
at that that modeling I just that seems
so the to the the 20 really the 20 40
column is our current model the 20 30
column was the 2013 model we expanded 10
years because the P SRC model has gone
out another 10 years but my point is the
land use component of that bar is not up
for debate it is a policy decision that
was made in 2013 it is not up for debate
tonight and we're not changing land use
in the city unless you want to go back
and change the CIP EIS and go through
that whole planning effort again I know
I'm saying this really sort of sternly
but I want I just want to make it clear
that we're not the land use is not what
we're talking about tonight other than
technical changes in land use stuff that
moved from vested to existing or stuff
that moved from vested to to plant and
design I appreciate it thank you I
appreciate it when we're talking about
assumptions I think it's good that we
yeah I know it's called assumptions but
it's really it's your plan it's the
city's plan that was adopted in 2015
through the CIP EIS process so it's not
an assumption it is your plan for what
you want to do in the city how's the
matter winter Stein thank you the
explanation you gave a moment ago is
very helpful because I was struggling
with like my colleagues like the butt of
that cigarette yeah they're like is the
pain is the bane of our existence
however it's that maximum number and the
amount of blue that real
matter yes as if if if a project comes
in so obviously if it's residential
people are beginning and ending here in
the assump and now I may be putting
words in your mouth so I'm looking for
confirmation but if it's commercial
related whether it be retail office
whatever then then it's creating trips
and they're in the blue correct we can
collect from that threat and yes I care
that we have an accurate measurement and
forecasts of what's truly doesn't begin
or end because that's passed through
mm-hmm for the technical definition but
if we're creating more commercial
opportunities and people are either
leaving a job or coming to a job or
coming to a retail or some other place
that becomes part of our impact fee
structure sure that they may they may
actually be working in Bellevue and
living in Black Diamond but if they come
and buy jewelry at some new store that
shows up we can capture money for that
that's exactly right
all right thank you okay back to you
tourist cards so the result this is the
last slide the result of all that
analysis comes down to well it's not the
last slide but it's the crux boils down
to then that analytical analysis that we
do on level of service and does
everybody understand level service it's
a a through F sort of like a report card
a is good F is bad when you get the city
standard is level service D we need to
maintain level search D or better except
at six intersections that were
identified in the 2013 concurrency
update and so what we were doing with
this update is to make sure that
everything still looks like we're on
track that with the same land-use that
we projected in 2013 are we in the same
place and are the same six intersections
failing
are the other 90 some intersections
still operating a little sirs D or
better so that was the point of this
update and what we found is that we went
from six failing intersections to five
failing intersections and I am going to
explain what happened there so five of
those six are the exact same
intersections that were failing in 2013
so it's the same those those five didn't
change and so we're still in synced with
that the one intersection that fell off
the list is the talus and it's just off
the graphic here is the talus driveway
on sr 900 and I know all of you are
gonna say oh my gosh I know that
intersection operates poorly what
happened there was two things we
actually had a drop in volumes on SR 900
between 2013 and 2017 and the talus
development agreement expiration removed
growth from talus that was no long that
can no longer occur so the number of
trips that are gonna go through that
intersection decreased from 2013 to 2017
and that's what made that intersection
fall off the list it is still level
serves D it's not operating great but it
is no longer your F
that's remember Goodman can you tell us
technically the difference or the
specific improvement like in seconds or
minutes or whatever it is between a an F
and a D what would be required in order
to bring it from an E to a Dean the
reason I'm asking is because if it
improves it by whatever a few seconds
it's on a chart it will show as an
improvement but nobody will have noticed
an improvement really right so let's go
to the table so I think Sheldon you were
saying second stuff delay so you're
gonna test my memory here but
the very first intersection sr 900 in
the eastbound ramps you'll see it's at
70 79 seconds of delay and that results
that's a level service ee condition I
believe eighty seconds is the threshold
that brings it to F so you'll see just
two intersections below the 93 seconds
of delay brings it two and a half so
eighty seconds are below of delay and
that's average at the intersection not
any one movement but average overall at
the intersection eighty seconds of delay
is a level service F 80 or higher isn't
half eighty or lower is a da3 the sorry
does that help okay now what level of
improvement is needed to bring any one
of these it all depends on that delay
number so the higher that delay number
goes I mean once you're an F it could be
a hundred and eighty seconds of delay
but the higher that number goes the more
expensive it gets to fix so I have a
question for you which is these all
assume sort of a stochastic process
right it presupposes a process that you
can describe this sort of a normal
distribution right around some number so
that we you know a number of 79 we all
sort of have an idea what that means
because there's a bunch of stuff around
79 and then there's outliers when it
gets better or worse but it's my
experience in the city that we have some
weird completely nonlinear stuff that
goes on where all of a sudden like in ER
I've been at intersection 13 when it was
a thousand seconds yeah right where it
took me it took I once had a chi had a
land in charming and I was late for it I
was at Home Depot and it took me an hour
to get from Home Depot to them to care
right so so all of a sudden you're
you're just not in the realm of a
probabilistic kind of model that you've
got here and do we understand when those
events occur and why they occur
and how we how we deal with these things
and I don't believe there was a price
you know anybody landed an airplane on
this Oklahoma Road or you know something
I mean it wasn't there's an approximate
cause for it to be that crazy right so
so traffic is definitely a hard thing to
predict it's a human behavior right
person decides to go one way or another
each day depending on the intersection
they see downstream is congested long in
a turn here instead today that they
wouldn't have done yesterday so like you
said traffic is a behavioral thing that
we are trying to define with mathematics
right and the math that goes into these
calculations does attempt to take into
account those variabilities in traffic
okay
the instance that you described could
very well be at any one intersection
we're showing that the volume that's
approaching that intersection and wants
to get through it would operate at you
know again let's take the third
intersection down SR 912 Sammamish it's
level service F we're predicting on an
on an average day you're gonna have
about 93 seconds of delay there that
means you're gonna sit through more than
one cycle to get through but on any
other given day there could be a
downstream problem that has caused a
queue to back up to that intersection
and now there's an outside influence
that is affecting that intersection and
so those are things that unfortunately
we can't take we can't take into account
but secondly the city would certainly
not want to design or pay for those
outlier if we understood what was
happening perhaps sometimes it's timing
right right we do what we would love to
sequence our lights with highway 900 but
we don't get to right where a fire truck
goes through you know you have the
things on the signals that allow a fire
truck to go through and Rita you have to
calm that retime the signals in order to
allow the fuss that has a significant
effect on anyone you know any one hour
of traffic because for the signal system
to get back in sync and for the
platooning to reoccur on the
intersection on the corridor could cause
like that effect that you saw that one
and it's something you never saw you
never saw that ambulance to that fire
truck go through the intersection but my
question is are we as a city in any way
noting when these severely off-nominal
traffic events occur and attempting to
do a root cause diagnosis of why they're
occurring right so that's I guess a
question for the city on occasion yes I
can give you examples I know one interim
City Administrator that calls every once
in a while and says what the heck is
going on to get that kind of information
and I figure out how recently the cause
may have occurred and entering that into
sort of the repository so that we can
have conversations about is there a way
to minimize impact from events like that
I don't know that we have a systematic
way that we're collecting that
information but we're having those
conversations okay because I would like
and I realize I saw you looking at your
watch I know you have a time I'm more
worried about getting then agenda item
but I mean some of those could have for
instance if we decided that part of our
problem is not being able to time our
lights off of highway 900
that might be an example of something
that would that would inform our
legislative agenda right or some other
mechanism beyond you know this the true
concurrency model that we try to resolve
that such that we try to adjust these
outliers so that people get more at
least a more predictable sense of what
traffic is gonna look like
yeah custom tops another rate no I just
want to I love this chart it's got all
sorts of fun numbers in it can you tell
me what the what each of the columns
means and what what is delay what is
total volume entering and what is w over
C and then what's the little marginal
letter sure I'll start with control
which is probably pretty obvious but
there's signalized on this page you see
mostly signalized
on other pages you might see a WSC which
is always stop control and and why not
so that tells you how is that
intersection being operated the next
column over the lane group is probably
more of a technical thing but it tells
what that tells you is for a signalized
intersection all every single Lane at
that intersection is calculated in that
delay calculation and always stop and
two-way stop controlled intersections
all the lanes are not included it's only
the one that's being stopped that's
included in the calculation okay
the next column over is level service
we've talked about that a through F
delay is the number that is the amount
of delay on average that's experienced
at and then going back over to the lane
group either all the lanes or the subset
of the lanes depress that average over
the entire length of the day no it's
again a peak hour the worst peak hour
yep over one hour so theoretically
that's the worst that it would be on a
typical weekday now I know Saturdays and
you know noon times sometimes they're a
little bit weird and different but
that's a p.m. peak hour average delay
okay the end total entering volume is
the amount of traffic that's entering
the intersection during that one peak
hour okay and then the V over C is
called volume
it stands for volume to capacity it's
that volume which is of the for example
the first line five thousand one hundred
twenty nine cars want to get into the
intersection and the capacity is the
amount of capacity the amount of cars
that that intersection can process in an
hour and when you see that it's over one
it's telling you that there are more
cars that want to go through that
intersection then the intersection can
handle
does that help every council president
patís thank you
so my question in regard to level of
service this might be for Emily and it
follows up a little bit on council
president Mart's comment we're talking
about enf and having failing
intersections but within d which is
acceptable but we've got DS that have
higher rates of delay versus lower rates
of delay and so when is our opportunity
to talk about those level of service
within d and some of those more
problematic intersections or areas of
town where D is is it's inching up
toward E and do we have an opportunity
to talk about those sure and help me if
I don't answer your questions straight
on you have that opportunity in a few
different ways you can have it as
follow-up as we schedule a follow-up to
this meaning you have it during CIP
conversations as well
you'd have it if we were to bring
forward a discussion on concurrency
policy if I take your question further
and contemplate what would it mean to
establish a different cutoff point I
think that is something that in 2014
2015 was part of the conversation and we
looked at what that would mean
financially I I think it's also
important to recognize that it doesn't
it doesn't dictate where improvements
are happening so there are projects on
this list that are shown as D and get
somewhat better after improvement there
are some that they continue to get worse
because volumes go up on neighboring
streets for example
so you can you can have that
conversation but it's certainly if you
draw the line at a different place it
will significantly drive costs thank you
and and my thought was not necessarily
around drawing the line in a different
place although when would that
conversation happen if that happened but
more to look at some of those that are
inching up toward E and what potentially
could be done in those areas thank you
that answered that customer Ramos just
looking at some of the light factors and
just and I know you've done this very
scientifically and technically and you
found it through and some things just
they're a little more difficult to
swallow so I'm looking at for now second
Avenue and Front Street number 16 mm-hmm
okay which shows an 18 second delay now
I know I've traveled that route a lot in
p.m. afternoon and it takes me a half an
hour to get from here to if I go up
second to front 20 minutes to a half
hour I can time that I know I allow that
much time and it's consistent 20 minutes
to a half an hour to get up to front
coming from second right here so I'm
trying to figure out how that ever gets
to an 18 second delay and I know the
other front isn't moving really fast
either a little faster than that maybe
but you know and so I can I can predict
that accurate today and it shows 18
seconds I'm trying to fit that into my
reality a little bit as I'm sure other
folks are too because that that's what
that is today so I'm just trying to
figure it you know yeah and I'm not
gonna honestly be able to you know deny
that that's your experience or not what
I can all I can do is explain how the
calculation is done and you know whether
you accept that or not is you know
neither here nor there but the 18
seconds is again an average so your the
movements that you're making might be a
movement that is experiencing 50 seconds
of delay but when that's average to the
other movements that are experiencing
two seconds of delay it comes out to
that 18 so remember always like left
turns and right turns are typically much
higher delay than what's shown in the
table because they're the ones that get
the least amount of green time at the
intersection it's the three movements
that are the heavy movements and they
usually get the most screen time and
since it's a weighted average the
highest volume getting the lowest delay
makes that number go down the the turn
movements with the lower volumes and
least amount of green time in a weighted
calculation are gonna not reflect the
overall level of service as much does
that make sense yeah and I just you know
many other folks experience delays so
they're getting so predictable I can now
predict how long it's going to be if you
travel that route long enough and you
can get pretty accurate I guess just
anecdotally and knowing how long to
allow for that trip and and I'm getting
very good at getting to the south end
now and on time because they're not how
much time to allow right and it's not 18
seconds any other questions
councilmember Hutt
what is the letters on the far end of
the oh thank you for thank you for
asking so these are the levels of
service from the 2013 update so I just
provided them here for the six
intersections that were failing before
so that you would be able to compare
what how it changed from before and then
my other question is are there
situations where an intersection is
performing poorly and it becomes so
predictable that people are basically
disabled in a different way and then it
looks like it's improving but really
it's just that people have realized that
it's not functioning well so in that
event so is that kind of behavioral
thing built in that is definitely built
into the model when an intersection is
experiencing significant amounts of
delay that's part of the calculation and
the model is allows for rerouting so
cars will choose a different path if a
particular intersection or series of
intersections causes more delay than if
they went a different way
all right any other questions all right
what do you have left thank you guys
that that's it I mean it's it's the
series of four tables but you know we've
been through it I think all right hey in
councilmember moon you're gonna get it
back to us Oh Sheldon yes sorry I'll
make this quick this last slide is to
talk a little bit about the next steps
where we're headed with this data that
Torsten provided us staff as well as the
consultant we're working to update the
project that goes on to the concurrency
impact fee calculations as well as their
costs i earlier this evening there was
some discussion about yay or nay on some
projects or some guidance and so forth
while we're going ahead and proceeding
with the knowledge base that we have now
certainly the input will inform us and
it's easy to remove a project or add a
project in as we've got a substantive
amount of data already for cost
estimating is expected that once the
project costs and the project list has
been updated DSD is working with a
consultant to update the impact fees
which will come back to council at the
latter part of this year probably
towards the end of the year for council
review and adoption of the new impact
fees for traffic as well as
non-motorized those are also being
updated it's just not part of
torstensson's work and then in second
quarter next year with the adoption of
the CIP and T IP the projects will be
all incorporated in there with the new
values and the like so any questions for
Sheldon on the on the you are here slide
ok thank you very much and it's one
dimension council member who you were
going to get back to us on
a custom member apologized interim city
administrator moon the net is young and
I'm already flaking out on sort of
feedback and the timing on when you
would want to hear back from us I
certainly will alright thank you
oh and but we're not actually done with
this topic entirely we're done with the
presentation on staff but I will offer
the public if anyone in the public
wishes to speak to this issue tonight as
we think about this I will offer them
three minutes you sent us such a short
email I assume of your comments would be
short as well so if you don't have a
model that reflect reflects reality it's
very hard to think that you are going to
get the proper projects to get the
community to a place in transportation
where they are at least feeling
improvement and I feel that the model
assumptions potentially are what is
creating this sort of mind-boggling
disparity between reality and what is on
the page one of the things is the
averaged intersection when you get one
leg of an intersection that has too much
delay the system breaks down and this
model doesn't really reflect that type
of a thing that happens all day long
every day in this town and so how do you
solve that problem now you did a new
concurrency attempt last time and this
time it's like we aren't going to
discuss the policies and whether
concurrency is working this time I think
you have to because I think seeing this
model run and the disparity makes the
need for a conversation of is I can
weigh we're doing concurrency going to
work in the future because did it work
in Latin this last period of time so I
would encourage you to have that require
that conversation there was also a pool
of trips from that last concurrency I
didn't see the pool of trips and how
many trips
have in theory been put into the pool
which is sort of the core concurrency
method at this point in time so it's a
little harder to gauge what is actually
happening because that is what we're
supposed to be doing so perhaps you
could look at instead of trying to
figure out how to maximize the amount of
money that we're making from a model run
we need a model run to get us the the
projects that we need to actually make
it easier to get through town and if we
insist on just trying to make money I
don't think that we are looking for
success because this is the moneymaker
but we never have the conversation about
what's important and what is success in
our town for our community then I'm
going to say some specific things I
didn't see st3 and its placement in this
model yet we're going to 2040 and we all
know that st3 is going to be a
massive wacko bring her in of traffic
potentially so I would like to see that
listed down and placed into a model and
I also the Holly Street bridge just
adding Auto traffic in the middle of
that quiet neighborhood via sort of a
concurrency discussion to me is a
radically bad faith thing for a city
council to even to consider before it
went out to that community and said we
are pondering this what do you think of
doing this in your neighborhood you just
don't slide it in here that is the cart
before the horse as far as I'm concerned
and then I would like to know if all of
the assumptions in this model run are
the exact same assumptions in the model
run from the prior time we did it
because the numbers could look so
different because the assumptions were
changed you just don't know
okay with that under three minutes call
chef
very close thank you
well we don't we get we don't actually
we don't actually clap even council
meetings but thank you thank you for
enthusiasm is there anyone else who
wishes to speak on this topic this
evening anyone else wishes to speak on
traffic concurrency going twice last
chance
No okay so with that we will now move on
to ID Oh 297 senior center update
presented by our Parks and Recreation
Director Jeff Watling yes welcome to the
mic all right Thank You Council good
evening great great to be here boy over
the past year and a half the Senior
Center has been transitioning certainly
into its new future and as I think we've
done that we've had a chance to converse
with you a number of times certainly
with the community a number of times I
hope what you find is in tonight's
presentation though it might feel a
little bit repetitive it really
represents progress and it represents
another step and in this policymaking
decision as to how we want to operate in
that last year and a half I think it's
certainly safe to say and great work of
Courtney and and Brian and senior center
staff the many Senior Center staff that
as that operation has stabilized
discussion of long term operation has
been allowed to happen
it's been an important community
conversation it's been an important
policy conversation we've had that
conversation in a variety of forms the
task force meetings we had last year our
council and committee discussions the
conversations we've had at the Senior
Center with seniors either at coffee
talk or just and lunchtime conversations
those conversations have often been
around conceptual operating models for
so long we were talked about conceptual
operating models to the recent work
you've done these past months with the
assistance of our consultant the
conversations we had with put with
possible partners both regionally and in
here
in the city the letter of interest
process that we went through we're no
longer at a conceptual conversation
level we're not talking conceptual
operating models anymore we're really
here tonight to begin talking about one
possible partner who submitted a letter
of interest and comparing that with what
long terms city operation would look
like and so that really I think
represents a shift as we move forward I
would just highlight as we move into
other presentation goals to throughout
this year and a half along with really
striving for seamless Center operation
we've also really sought and desired and
appreciated the assistance of counsel
and administration it's certainly our
goal of staff is to have a very
transparent conversation around long
term operation and so look forward to
this further conversation and and where
we're where we want to go as a community
in operation along with this first goal
that I just highlighted and will
continue to in terms of where we're at
in this decision-making process the
intent tonight is to highlight the
conversations we've had with Eastside
friends of seniors regarding their
possible operating model I think what
you'll see is they're still also in an
exploratory place as they're looking at
and still considering doing this we'll
also discuss the possible long-term city
operating model in a little more detail
and how that compares to this operation
we've been in currently as interim
operation I'm going to note and you'll
note as we go through this for a number
of reasons unfortunately we're not at a
same level of clarity as we start
looking at those examples tonight but at
least it's a first step and then lastly
really get to the fundamental policy
question and begin to look at and
discuss options for how we might want to
move forward
and and how do we collectively want to
strive to meet the goals of this
community to meet the goals that were
really identified as the guiding
principles by the advisory group in
their work last year so with that
Eastside friends of seniors submitted
their their letter of interest since our
July 24th work session meeting I've had
the chance to meet with them three times
have met with Linda Woodall their
executive director as well as some of
their board members who a couple of them
are here tonight we've certainly got to
know them and in their their interest
many of you might be already familiar
with their work they're currently a
nonprofit agency they currently partner
with us we see them as great partners
already at the Senior Center
they're a volunteer-based organization
providing services both in Issaquah and
Sammamish are their two primary
communities they're their program model
their service menu really focuses
primarily on transportation based work
as well as some in-home support and
services that they provide as they get
to know their clients clients better
they've certainly noted and they're very
honest that they do not have any
experience currently or formerly in
operations of a Senior Center or
operating a Senior Center facility so in
that I think what we've been able to
pull out from these three conversations
is they too are exploring this option
they are still formulating their own
operating model and budget I don't have
that to provide to you tonight what
we've talked about in these
conversations and begun to to lay out as
a city and getting an understanding of
what forms of support they would be
looking for from the city it's it's
pretty clear that would take two forms
of support one in in-kind support this
would be our services that would be
assisting them
this could be everything from facility
maintenance to fleet maintenance the
topic of the bus came up as one example
their IT support would be another type
of in kind service along with that menu
perspective menu of services it's pretty
clear as well that they would be seeking
financial support in the form of annual
operations another item of conversation
that that's come up and has become clear
as as they're looking at their own
agency what they really want to be
careful of is an understanding to go
into city center our Senior Center
operations they're going to be needing
to expand their own operational capacity
within their agency to be able to absorb
that that level of service and how that
service compares to their existing their
existing program footprint they wouldn't
want their existing program footprint to
necessarily just become lost as we start
looking at timeline they would be
looking at a first or second quarter of
2020 our 2020 in terms of that potential
operational handoff from the city to
East Side friends of seniors in that
timeline and in their own exploratory
work they've also made known to us that
they would be requesting as a part of
that timeline some to 2019 city funding
for some of their own capacity building
work and preparations for that
transition
so as we get through the presentation
I'm sure there'll be ample ample
questions as we go
or as I wrap up feel free to ask looking
now at City operation this has been
built through a lot of work that
Courtney and Brian and I have done in
terms of looking at what a city
operating model might look like in a
broad overview what we're looking at on
the revenue side is really the an
operating model that allows us to be a
little bit more aggressive in terms of
revenues I've identified two broad
categories of revenues fees and charges
this is your typical center based
program based rental based revenue that
we'd be collecting as part of that
Center operation anticipating about
sixty four thousand dollars there we
would also anticipate the ability and
the capacity to go after Grants and
other contributions the city is eligible
for a number of grants one of those
including the King County vets and
seniors levy we anticipate about an
eighty thousand dollar number there
annually for a estimated total of a
hundred and forty four thousand and
revenue that certainly represents a
significant increase with that ability
to have that added long-term staffing
capacity on the expenditure side we
would see an annual expenditure this
would include staff and program costs
and other direct expenses of four
hundred and sixty two thousand dollars
that would translate to a net operating
cost I think it's councilmember Reyes at
the last meeting what's out-of-pocket
and out-of-pocket cost of three hundred
and eighteen thousand dollars annually
interestingly enough how this compares
to what is budgeted in 2018 in terms of
our net operating cost we're at three
hundred and twenty thousand dollars and
and some spare dollars seven hundred and
sixty dollars
how does that happen you ask I think one
way that happens I think one way that
happens is a we are not we do not
necessarily have the capacity to be
generating our own revenue so there
comes a point where looking at the
ability to staff up in a more
sustainable long-term way that staffing
creates the capacity to generate more
revenue so when you look at a pro-forma
if you will a cost recovery target our
current budget is at about a 14% cost
recovery cost recovery meaning of
revenues versus expenses the projected
budget would be about a thirty one
thirty two percent pro-forma
of cost recovery which is pretty
comparable quite comparable to peer
cities that operate that operate senior
centers I would note as well this is not
a static number by any means if we were
to choose to do long-term City operation
we'd anticipate the need from a
year-over-year standpoint to see
proportionate increases in expenses and
finding ways that we're also meet
meeting or are able to create those
proportional increases on the on the
revenue side as well all right Jeff yeah
I would say again this is this would be
the 2019 assuming a sort of ramp up of
friends of senior the this would be what
city what what if we were to choose to
operate the facility directly as the
city so this is the comparison team in
29 or in whatever yes but if we wanted
to if the decision the policy decision
was to convert to City operation and do
it in a long-term fashion yes this would
be the the city operating budget
requested
continuing on within this model of city
direct city operation what that budget
that I just went over what that
translates to in terms of services what
that translates into in terms of
staffing built into that budget would be
a team of three full-time employees a
supervisor a coordinator and an aide so
again that ability to create some
programmatic capacity it would also
certainly be much like our other
facilities the pool in the community
center a body a part-time staff and as
well a rather robust body and and team
of volunteers as well looking at
programs and services what's built into
that and what would be anticipated would
be continuing at five day a week lunch
service delivery we would look at
creating some increased capacity within
social service offerings resource
referral other other opportunities it
would create capacity for expanding
trips and tours
I'm sorry council member just I know
we're we were ask you right now this
staffing how does it compare to what
you're doing today so today in the
interim model we have one full-time
staff person and part-time staff and
volunteers so we we have so this is so
the long-term one two three FTEs the
equivalent you don't have a more
complete number as far as today just one
FTE and some part time with those
equivalent FTEs are I don't have
equivalent in terms of what they are is
FTEs I wouldn't I don't in here either
that would be three full-time staff
versus now we have one full-time staff
person
other questions it's alright oh my god I
got a poke at that just a memory that
doesn't foot so if I've got one FTE
today and it's costing $320,000 net to
run the Senior Center and you're going
to triple the number of FTE in nineteen
to go to this model and we're running
about the same budget
I can't reconcile those numbers because
would you know I know the biggest cost
driver on this thing is is salaries yeah
so again I think that that's the net
operating budget of this year's budget
that's what's budgeted III don't know
given that we're at one FTE we are not
that's not that's likely I'm going to be
our actual expenses for for a budget so
I'm gonna say I mean this is an update
of where we're at and I think this is
identification of the topic because I
too want to understand that that that
one better and so if when you come back
if next time we chat understanding the
current full-time and part-time staffing
and the future full-time and part-time
and and how that would go into yeah it
does seem like I didn't have the same
question like how do we how do we get
more people for the same amount of money
and you that we do it with the police
and so I wanna I want to be clear also
what I'm comparing is not the expense
budget I'm comparing the net operating
cost and so what else we're able to do
with those additional staff is attain a
lot more revenue so but yes absolutely
this is not a budget request let me ask
you to know their way in 2018 are you
generating any what's your revenue
you're generating in 2018 2018 were
roughly yeah we're generating about
twenty or thirty thousand dollars some
of it significantly less that's a member
hunt
you had said earlier that as as you
increase the staffing capacity that that
would increase the revenue the abilities
to get more revenue so but then there's
also in that last night there's an
expectation that it would be fairly
constant the 32% cost recovery so does
that mean that that then you this
revenue represents what we would expect
to be with anticipate a year-over-year
performance will be proportionate but
it'll be similar so it doesn't it isn't
expected to change over time this would
be pretty similar over time with those
three FTEs that's the amount you would
expect that we would anticipate that I
think a key pro forma there's a number
of pro formas right participation a
number of things but cost recovery being
in that thirty to thirty five percent
cost recovery year-over-year so as
expenses increased we would also
anticipate the need to be gathering and
collecting more revenue but I want to
address something I saw some hands up in
the audience this is not unfortunately a
session where we do Q&A with staff but I
will be taking comment at the end and if
you have things that that you have those
questions that I encourage you to give
public comment and say you know here's
some in supplemental information that I
hope to understand better and that will
inform us so if you continue to proceed
you bet all right so how might we
consider moving forward and certainly
not asking for direction or a decision
tonight that certainly was not not the
intent but as we now have before us
really the two most immediate options
for long-term operation you said friends
of seniors and a third party management
model or direct city operation here are
a number of options that we can consider
would certainly appreciate feedback as
as I finish this one is pursuing city as
the long-term operator within that
option that is probably from a timeline
standpoint the most ready and available
it really folds right into the 2019
budget deliberations with a long term
operating model fine-tuning and actually
adopting budget and and staffing levels
we would then in turn look at
transitioning right in the first quarter
of 2019 another option to consider would
be to move forward with and assume he
said friends of seniors as the long-term
operator of the senior center that has a
little longer runway as I as I mentioned
earlier what it would mean is the city
continuing as interim operator in 2019
given that we wouldn't want to close the
doors and East Side friends of seniors
wouldn't be ready to also in 2018 as I
mentioned earlier he said Friends of
seniors excuse me would desire some
capacity funding from the city to help
in their preparation work in 2018 we
would then be negotiating that
management agreement and the terms and
all the details that go with that if we
were to accomplish that management
agreement then the earliest operational
handoff for East Side friends of seniors
again would be q1 q2 of 2020 another
option we could certainly consider
moving into the later part of this year
and into early next year would be
continue to explore you said friends of
seniors as a potential operator this too
would mean as we're looking at budget
process right around the corner we would
be building a budget framework around
interim operation should we pursue that
option both parties in the first quarter
of next year latter part of this year
would complete this exploratory work
within this model I would imagine that
we would want to or at least his staff
we would want to establish a firm
decision date sometime in the first or
second quarter of 2019 once we reached
that decision date we would proceed
accordingly if it was City operation
that would then likely happen in 2020 if
at that decision point it was Eastside
friends of seniors it could then in turn
push that too late to 2020 or January
2021 when that handoff would would occur
so it's a broad overview I know there's
many sure many questions and in further
details that's about a winter Stein
thank you could you go back a slide
please
you bet so listening to you present this
information well clearly the city is
operating the senior center in 2019 all
those options say that and it seems like
your third category continue to explore
or is really kind of a precursor to see
if the second category is even viable
that's that's the way I heard that and
and and and so the near-term it seems
like the only decision that's going to
be in front of us as a council in 2019
is what to grant you through the budget
for 2019 and that one way or another you
are planning to still explore the other
option but I don't want to put words in
your mouth but is that is that right yes
I think what we are hoping for in this
process decision-making process is as we
get direction as to what long-term
operation is it's going to take a while
to ramp up and get to that
yes 2019 will be like lease it will be
City operation in one form of another
interim operation though again is not
does not have within it the capacity to
sustain over a long period of time and
and we are
I think approaching a point where the
seniors the Senior Center the patrons
are desiring increased services so
following so explain to me then the
difference between what what would be
different in an interim versus if you
said okay we're at long-term versus an
in term operation in 2019 what's the
difference
good question inner operation is what
we're doing right now
so interim operation is taking one
full-time staff person an FTE position
that is budgeted in another part of the
department and it's been operating the
senior center with part-time staff and
volunteers it's been doing a great great
job but it's really keeping the
operation going it's not really
positioning it to be as responsive as we
might want to be in terms of moving the
senior center forward long term
operation long term operation is
staffing it and positioning in a way to
have it function on its own in a more
healthy way okay go back one more slide
long-term operation from the city up one
more then no you went to right there
then Wow then you can begin working on
the increased social service offerings
he expanded trips and hours they
expanded health and wellness programs
the expanded partnerships with senior
focus agencies that's what would not
happen in an interim state correct
correct
council member Ramos so back to the
other slide option I guess I'm trying to
figure out the difference between the
second and third bullet so to me you
know if I don't see the second one as
possible if the third one still needs to
happen because the third one says we're
not sure if we can do it and make it
work and that's a statement now and the
second bullet says we're sure we're
gonna make it work we just have to do
the work to get it there so I'm kind of
having you know where we are with you
know you start yeah because it's like it
you see I mean it's a question on three
of whether that partnership is going to
work right and so the second bullet says
we're pretty ready to move ahead with
that partnership and that's why I'm
having trouble getting behind because
I'm you know I'm fine with the
partnership it's just if if they don't
know that yet then how can we pursue the
second one yeah I'm merely putting up
options I'm not recommending option both
of those possible at the same time
that's what I'm there not it seems to be
pretty clear in 2018 we have three
options in front of us we definitely
towards go towards having the city be
the long-term operator we could
definitely go towards having Eastside
friends of seniors be the long-term
operator or we can say we want to take
some more time we're not ready to make
that decision and we want to give it a
little bit more time and get it and make
that decision in q2 of 2019 with
additional information so it's really up
to the seven of us right the 7oo say you
know what these side friends of seniors
they're ready to go that's a decision we
can make or we can seven make a decision
that says you know what they chose
promise but we're not quite ready to
make that decision yet right and of
course we're not making that decision
tonight we're not making any decisions
tonight we're just getting a status on
on what's coming a PD council president
patís thank you for the presentation
Jeff that on the third option the
management agreement what was the timing
on that
so there's no bullet point for it but I
believe you said that would kind of push
into 2020 or even 2021 yeah I think with
if if the collective is we need more
time to decide then yeah it you're right
I could have added a bullet that the
management agreement if we establish a
firm date and say April 1st no fooling
and we decide yeah he said friends of
seniors we're gonna go that way then
were you know for four months delayed in
that management agreement process which
then pushes back probably that
transitional handoff a little bit and
what what would would there be certain
things that you've talked with the group
about that if they were in the third
option if there were more time available
are there certain things that could be
done to get to get prepped for you know
going into a full agreement or is it
that in the second in the second option
it talks about capacity funding request
and that kind of thing I'm just
wondering if it's it's the ability to
where they would need staff and need to
get started in that way or within the
third option if there were certain
avenues that they could go down that
would get them prepped for you know
going into that management agreement
it's a good question I can't answer it
because I think more of it is where are
they where are they there's some clear
work that they need to do as an agency
as they're exploring this to put
together and that we need to see in that
third option in terms of what's in
operating what's a what's their
operating model look like what's a
budget look like what's their staffing
need look like so a lot of that work is
we work in their in their Court
I'm sorry ma'am we do not need full
council meetings we do not take question
and answer during deliberation but we do
take public comment and we will very
very shortly
councilmember Rea did you have a
question or comment I did but the
council member hunt was first ever hi
thank you so there is information about
the city-owned model for services
provided and for staffing and for the
budget but there isn't at this time for
the Eastside Friends of seniors and so
to compare these it's hard because
there's a lot of information for one
option and very little information for
the other option at this point so can
you help me out with any sort of
information about the expected on any of
those three points at this point I can't
I've had three meetings with them I yeah
administrator mood thank you
I am gonna just try to capture the three
actually number two and number three in
a little different way see if this
resonates so number two is we're really
interested in Eastside friends have seen
ours and we would like to continue it
explored explore them as an operator and
thus we are going to be receptive to
them potentially making a capacity
funding request so I think councilmember
Winterson asked you know is the interim
operation the only kind of
decision-making that's going to be
happening or a budgetary impact and the
answer to that is maybe if if you give
us some input tonight and say you know
I'm still interested in number two here
then we should expect that if Eastside
friends have seniors is still interested
in working with us and vetting this
option that they will come back with
that funding capacity request in 2019
what we're hearing from them is that is
probably necessary for them to continue
to think about
the ramp up to being able to deliver
services on the nearer timeline that one
of 2020 operation however option three
is yeah we might still want to explore a
relationship with Eastside friends of
seniors but we may not be ready right
now or in 2019 to think about investing
in their capacity building and therefore
we're gonna keep talking but at some
point in 2019 we're gonna stop talking
and decide if this is a real option or
not and then if it looks like we have
better information at that point in time
then we would expect them to come back
with a subsequent capacity building
request unless they've decided how to
build that capacity without our funding
and that just pushes the timeline out on
that decision-making so that's kind of
the difference between the two options
thank you for that clarification
I no longer have a question I deferred
to council member hunt because she said
the question much more eloquently than
me all right
other other questions or comments for
staff before we go to public comment
councilmember winters time Thank You
Vicki did kind of ask this so what we
don't have is a ended it's because it's
not possible but what we don't have is a
kind of a B comparison between total
costs and programs what can the city do
at what costs what kind of programs how
many people can they serve level service
that kind of a lot more detail than
you're able to provide but obviously
that would be the best possible way for
us to make a decision because I assume
that one of the reasons we're even
considering a four for
Contracting for the service is that an
external party can do more better
cheaper than we can do as a city because
if the best option for the best services
for the best price but for the best
services is for us to bring it
internally then then we would do that
but we look at an OP outside option
because the services the level of the
quality of services the whatever and the
cost they could do it is is better for
the seniors boss is better for us the
overall services packages is better for
the seniors but we're not we're not able
to make that assessment at all right now
and and I don't know how we're going to
get there but it'll be very interesting
for me to hear perhaps during comments
tonight or in afterwards about clients
of the Senior Center about what there's
what you're experiencing today about the
programs or the lack of programs or what
your your hopes or our or maybe some
aspirations that you've heard of or
talked about and would like to see in
this program because that will be
important to help just judge because if
we go into just a interim operation in
2019 which is kind of I'm gonna put some
words in your mouth Jeff it's kind of
more the same of what we've been doing
in 2018
then I want to get a sense of how that's
perceived because I think the long term
operation for the city and any if we
were to hand it to an external partner I
think you're also telling us that you
think those programs would expand and
improve upon what we have today that
would be a hearing so okay so thank you
sounds member Ramos yeah nicely stated
appreciate that and that that's
basically the question I had to and then
just the technical part for our
standpoint no matter what we do here in
19 budget wise we're gonna plan on
on operating the senior senator from our
budget capacity whatever that is so that
that's a decision that we already made
the question I have then is at what
point in time do we need to get to this
this point where we need to decide okay
we're gonna we want to continue that cuz
we want to make it the best possible and
interim is not the best possible staple
is the best possible we're gonna get to
that point or we're going to work with
the partner to to get there so when do
when does that have to that information
come out and we have to make that
decision
but for now budget wise for 19 and say
you know money-wise it's gonna be
basically where it is regardless of the
policy of what we're doing pretty much
am I correct yes and and the questions
is also ways wisely stated its what's
the best service we can provide that it
would do to folks and what is what are
the what do they want you know that's I
want to hear some public comment to what
what would are they desiring from what
they know and all these studies you've
worked with them for over many meetings
and across many things and what's the
feeling from for the users other counsel
coming it's been for goodness thank you
so I've mentioned this before and so
I'll ask it again my comment is that I
would be interested in a model and
operator that would be willing to or
interested in and able to do self
sustaining revenue generation so I've
talked about the Wenatchee model before
and their ability to fundraise and have
a thrift store I think they have a
fairly significant budget we keep
getting hung up on how much it's going
to cost the city every year I'm not sure
that that Center takes any city money
every year or if they do it's not much
and and they have a significant budget
so is there any interest on the part of
the city to try to find an operator that
would be interested and have the ability
to do that yes and as we went through
our community conversations and our
conversations with agencies and
providers and put out a really broad
cast a really broad net for a letter of
interest we didn't yeah customer winter
Stein for clarification Stacy's coming
prompted me to think of it this way when
I when I asked about like a comparison
which we don't have costs two options a
and B are two my assumption would would
be because you showed that we could
through grant writing and attract some
funds and we know that the previous
operator will for whatever we think
about that operation we provided roughly
half at about ninety nine thousand
dollars a year so I have a rough cost
comparison we're looking at something
more but the point there is that one way
or the other
they raised the other half of the money
that they needed and and so my
assumption is that if we and I think
Stacy was even carrying this even
further I think is is it's not just the
total cost it's it's really the total
cost to us because the assumption would
be that there would be revenue there
would be other development capacity from
an organization that took over if they
took over right they would have ability
to raise their own funds whether however
they attracted that I'm not assuming
fees and stuff like that and like you
said grants and what-have-you and
working with other partners too so so
it's yeah it's a cost comparison but I'm
assuming that there's a there's a whole
other revenue stream that they would be
have some ability to create whether it
be through a retail store other whatever
other options we will continue to try
and get that from them in terms of their
budget and operating model so some
thoughts first and foremost for me I
want to echo that both tonight and later
the input from the clients of the Senior
Center is going to be super important to
me around this question the bill asked
about you know wouldn t be able to make
a decision this year would we have to
wait till next year that's going to be
have
in form by by the way what I hear from
the public at some point I'm gonna want
to see and this is some of this is
reiterating programs revenue generation
what that looks like if we run things
what that looks like if friends of
seniors runs things an area that we
haven't talked about that I would also
want to see on that day when we make a
final decision is also the governance
model you know we had that factored
heavily into when the last time the
senior center was private and I think
everybody would want to understand how
that might look if the city continued to
run it and how it might look under a
private group and if there's a benefit
one way or the other to you know the
self decision from that organization
about how how that building looks and
how the program to run that are that are
in it right
other council questions or comments
before we open it up to public input is
there anything else that staff wants to
cover before we open up to the public
seeing none I will ask first of all I
want to thank everybody for waiting I'm
sorry that we had to move this to second
I know some of you were concerned about
the fact that it's now dark and people
are gonna have to go home in the dark
and I apologize for that but we are here
now and here you are and here we are and
I will ask if anybody wants to come up
to the microphone if you do you are
welcome to share your affiliation with
the city or not Rhianna and three
minutes as we through minutes each as we
did with the the previous item three
minutes each per person not that total
for the topic oh and I'll also I'll also
allow we had some clapping earlier and I
said don't clap if you would like to
signal an affinity with what the
previous speaker has said that what
we've been doing lately is having people
raise their hands and I will I'll note
with if something carries quite a bit of
support in the room without sir welcome
I'm Jan Delroy I volunteer currently do
the memoir writing class and also
contribute money for scholarship
and program development I would like to
say this is one place where government
is really functioning well the program
over at the Senior Center is being run
really well I have to thank Jeff and
Brian and Courtney and the staff it's
amazing what they've been able to do on
the short budget that they that they've
been on and I was on the advisory board
of working to where we are today I
strongly feel that the city should
continue running it the people that I
talked to are extremely happy with the
with the operation and how it's going
and how its Dell developing and how it's
growing that's about all I have to say
the city is doing a great job and you
should be proud of what they've been
able to do compared to what we came away
from thank you and I said and I see some
hands go up and support it those
comments thank you who would like to
speak to us next sir
good evening David Kepler 255 southeast
and earth Street about a month ago I was
the only one from in the public that
came to speak to the council when you
discuss this a month ago and I said the
public the people there are very happy
with how the city is running it jeff has
got a lot of experience running a great
Senior Center in Kent and I think we're
on a very positive path I emphasize then
and I will again
volunteer program has to be much further
developed in the city to support the
Senior Center and the Park Department in
general and other parts of the city
thank you thank you for your comments I
see some hands go for that as well
there's anybody else wishing to speak to
us this evening counsel Dave Wagner
yeah I'm associated with the city I
asked these folks several times last
week in a week before and I'm gonna just
ask them to put their hands up because I
asked them to come tonight if you like
the way the city is running the Senior
Center right now would you please raise
your hands thank you for that a couple
things I want to comment on one is on
the slide with Jeff knows and Courtney
knows and Bryan knows because I I asked
a lot of questions during the taskforce
and I still will ask the questions I'm
not the enemy here they know that but
we've got a much better Senior Center
now an assumption that we as a city run
Senior Center could or could not raise
money as I said to some of you council
members don't make that assumption
because I really believe as a city run
Senior Center we can raise money we will
raise money you're looking at the poster
child as council member raynbow snow
when some of you were busy running a
campaign to be on the City Council I was
helping the county get the veterans
seniors and Human Services levy passed
and it did pass I fully believe in my
heart of hearts that we can be effective
in raising money that will help us be
the senior center that we really can be
my my contention is that this interim
thing is not a good thing for us we were
in a room in 2017 we're going to be
finished being interim in 2018 now it
looks to me very strongly like we will
be interim in 2019 so we've got to make
a decision and it shouldn't take us this
long we've got a great Senior Center now
it's running much better than it ever
has and I really want to see it continue
under city leadership that's my position
and I think that there will be some of
these folks in this audience that will
come up and say the same thing
Jan and I we're Jan go there yes Jan and
I suffered through that task force and
those meetings week after week after
week and hard questions were asked and
guess what all those task force
parameters that you have in your report
we've achieved them we've got
transportation now that we're
transporting seniors we've got
five-day-a-week meals you know all of
those things that we asked for we've
done we've done gung-ho so far I got to
tell you we're going to be able to do it
effectively in the future
and raise money no doubt in my military
mind Thanks thanks for your comments
bunch of hands on that one as well
appreciate it other public comment
Elizabeth Lopez 100 big bear place I
don't currently use the Senior Center
but I have been following this and and
listening to what you're saying and I
think it's really important that you pay
attention to governance now at the
beginning whoever is handling this but
particularly if the city is handling it
you need a way for the people who use
the center to have a mechanism where
they can constantly give feedback
because what they desire right now may
not be what's desired a couple years
down the road so the governance model
needs to allow for a continuous loop of
feedback and as you spoke about a
self-sustaining model I'm wondering have
you checked out that assumption with
other cities that are running senior
centers to see if the good ones are
basically self-sustaining that may not
be an accurate assumption so yeah I just
I think there are ways that you could
check out that assumption and if you
expect the center to be significantly
involved in generating revenue ask other
senior centers how they do that so you
can bring some ideas to the table and
then talk about it with the people who
are actually using the center and
they'll tell you what their capacities
are and what their great gifts are and
I'm sure some of them are very gifted
but maybe in ways you didn't anticipate
thank you thank you for comment and
there were some hands on that as well
other public comment this evening
I'm sir she'll come forward
just to kind of support what she just
said my name is Harold Edgerton I live
at Providence Point there's quite a few
old people that live up there so we go
down to the Senior Center a lot and we'd
really enjoy it and it really has
improved you guys are doing there you're
doing a great job running it my wife and
I Val Hoover came from Olympia and we
used to attend the Tumwater Senior
Center which is City run and the way
they were one of the things that they
did is they had a board made out of
seniors and they didn't have the last
say so the people that gave us the money
is the ones that had the last say so but
at least at least it allowed the seniors
to feel like they had some say-so and
what was going on and you know we took
it was running really well we had a
president and a vice president and
secretary and we took notes and minutes
and and what it was really it made you
feel like people cared and I'm really
hoping that this is just not a formality
because I've been to a lot of meetings
like this where it's already been
decided what's going to happen and it
only depends on the budget but I'm
really hoping not because it's running
really well you gotta have a great staff
running it and I only see better things
happening if the city runs it thank you
very much
I give you your comments bunch of hands
going up on that as well anyone else
wishing to make public comment this
evening
anyone else sir
even counsel my name is Greg Wagner I've
been a member of the Senior Center since
2006 I was involved in this chaos we had
there back in 15 which sure you members
know about and since the city's taken
over which I was hoping for a while back
the place has been a tremendous
improvement Courtney's done a very fine
job the staff is always happy pleasant
outgoing it's a wonderful place to go
and I really hope the city maintains
this and keeps up the good work thank
you if your comment a bunch of hands on
that as well
other public comment this evening
good evening City Council I'm Terri
Claypool I'm the board president for
Eastside friends of seniors and
appreciate this opportunity there's no
group that's spending more careful
consideration about this than the board
and staff of Eastside Friends of seniors
other than probably you and Jeff we
better cheaper more services we want to
be sure that we really could deliver on
what you would want from us and at the
same time continue the services or at
least not you know have that be a
detriment to the service that we already
provide all eyes would be on us clearly
the the people who use the Senior Center
are very happy with it and it would be a
lot easier we would just be waltzing in
to fix something that isn't you know
providing such great services but that's
it matters to us that the people who
would use the services really care about
who operates and why they operate the
service center so you're sensing that we
need time I think you're sensing when
you look at this that we need time and
you're right we are it's an accurate
sense and it would be no small step and
I have a lot of confidence in the board
a lot of confidence in the staff and
have a lot of confidence in the city
Issaquah I'm a City resident and I'm
very excited about it pretty new to the
whole area but your sense that we need a
little time is correct I don't know that
we need more than a year I think we
could do it we just need to partner and
talk and keep the communication open and
bring in lots of residents and Senior
Center customer input to make sure that
we're doing the right thing so thank you
thank you for your comments I see a few
hands on that one also anyone else
wishing to make public comment this
evening any chance the person who had
asked who had wanted to ask questions
earlier what it wants to make up with
Tom it nope I see not okay well going
twice
public comment one more and with that
we're going to close public comment I
mentioned take just a brief moment as
council president there was a question
somebody said I sure hope that this
hasn't been preordained let me assure
you this council there are many people
in the city would love it if the council
made up these decisions ahead of time
but we don't we listen to the public
this is a issue that the council that
has been near and dear to our hearts for
a number of years and we will be very
careful and deliberate 'iv in our
decision-making on the subject and we
look forward to hear hearing from more
of you again and your fellow and your
fellow clients at the Senior Center as
this process moves forward so thank you
very much and with that we're gonna move
to our final item of the evening which
is ID zero three zero six solid waste
services recycling markets and there's
okay house key
alright stay with me here nothing
sharpens the entry like intellect quite
like being on the final item Aviva
excellent alright let's make sure
pull it up this way
okay all right I was asked to come here
tonight to give a broad overview of the
current situation with recycling markets
and the local impact that the disruption
in the recycling markets has caused with
me today to help answer some questions
at the end
our Jeff Brown of epicenter services
Jeff is a consultant that helped write
our current contract as well as many of
the other contracts across the state and
also with me is Kevin Kelly the general
manager of Recology in Seattle and the
situation is kind of evolving on a
week-by-week basis as things continue to
move forward so they may be able to
answer some of the more detailed
questions easier than I can I also
wanted to say that there's been a lot in
the news lately and while some haulers
and jurisdictions have chosen to end
recycling collection or have landfilled
bailed recycling we haven't done either
we haven't been asked to do either and
we don't plan to do so our current
collection system started in 2005 when
we moved from source separated some of
you may remember those three bins to a
commingled all-in-one recycling bin and
in part this was due to the global
markets opening up and the markets in
China being able to accept commodities
that had a little bit more contamination
than some of the local processors some
of the pros of this switch were to
expand that kind of accepted materials
list it increased diversion which
diversion is the amount of material of
the total of three streams that doesn't
go to the landfill so we'll get into
diversion rate a little more detailed
when the county comes out to discuss the
solid waste comprehensive plan in
October hopefully but our current
interim goal with the county is a 70
percent diversion rate
our residential rate right now sits at
about 60% and our commercial rate is
about 31 percent and our multifamily
rate is about 28 percent so total were
just above 40 percent diversion rate for
the city Paul could you define diversion
rate yeah so if you take all three
streams compost recycling and garbage
the percentage that is not going to the
landfill as garbage is the diverted
amount so that's the diversion rate so
if we're aiming for a 70 percent
diversion rate only 30 percent of those
the total material collected would go to
the landfill
councilmember hunt is that area or
weight or how is it how is it fines with
it it's by tonnage currently and King
County is assessing and they'll part of
the reason they'll discuss it more with
the comp plan is they're trying to
determine in the future that 70 percent
is an interim rate and they'll try and
figure out if there's a better metric to
use moving forward because there are
some problems when you do it all by
tonnage you know food waste weighs a lot
more than aluminum so look forward to
more discussion on that there was also
increased participation in recycling
when we rolled out commingled recycling
more people decided to use the carts
they put more stuff in it there was a
decrease in litter from having the open
containers and also a decrease in the
moisture from rain that ended up in the
paper recycling in those open boxes
there were some cons we became a little
bit dependent on the end market the
export market that had lower processing
standards which is kind of the we're
reaping what we were sowing then and
there was a higher contamination and
materials in the commingled processing
system and we'll show you how that
system works here in just a second so
really in short our haulers pick up our
materials in our commingled bin it's
sorted at a materials recovery facility
or a MuRF and there's both mechanical
processing optical sorting processing
and hand sorting of materials and I have
a little video here to show you in just
a second and then it's sold to domestic
and export markets some of the materials
like glass steel and aluminum stay here
there's local markets for those items
glass weighs a lot it's expensive to
ship anywhere and it's not worth a whole
lot of money plastics paper and
cardboard tend to go to export markets
of all the material that we collect
about 40% of it is mixed paper still
even with newsprint kind of going away
12% is plastic about 40% of the
commercial market is cardboard 20% of
the residential is cardboard and then
glass makes up about 15% in Issaquah 10s
key questions around carbon
sequestration so for me there's a but I
mean recycling there's a bunch of
different factors involved right but if
you believe that carbon sequestration is
the most important environmental issue
going forward is there a one-to-one
comparison between recycling and benefit
an increase in carbon sequestration or
is there any you know like is is the
recycling process sometimes like for
instance if you had a process that
allowed you to not have to use as much
glass or new glass right but it but it
required an energy intensive process
where you burned a ton of carbon you
know you could argue that that would
have a you know the environmental impact
of such a policy would be complex is it
complex or is it simple that would be a
good question for somebody with a little
more carbon expertise than me I think I
know there have been studies that show
glass for example when you use recycled
cullet in your furnace as opposed to new
material you actually requires less
electrical input into your furnace so
there are a lot of systems where not
only do you not have to extract the
virgin material but there's less carbon
intensity in the product
of the end product because you're using
recycled material I don't know for every
material so I think yeah I'm not totally
sure but no any feedback more or less or
less okay because I mean there's a lot
of silica out there in the world but you
know putting on one of seven like my 107
hat for me it's about the carbon
sequestration got it or carbon or
reduction of carbon footprint I should
say rather than see creation yeah
any other questions right now before you
keep going okay and when I tried this
earlier the sound didn't play so I mean
Airy so this is a video of the MuRF and
the sorting system that Recology put
together with Starbucks so you may
notice a little branding but it's
overall a very good look at how the Ince
in the process inside looks right now
they start by putting it in a plastic
bag which
so here's the tipping floor of the
materials recovery facility where the
each load comes in and is dumped and as
you can see it's all mixed together
there's a feeding system that meters out
how much runs into the equipment all at
once and they can monitor that and
measure it to make sure that the speed
is acceptable and that there's not too
much coming in it breaks up any of the
large compacted pieces that come out of
the truck because that gets pretty
squished in the truck sometimes
and I'm also happy to arrange tours of
the facility it's fascinating to go to
the Senior Center speaking of a group
that has gone is has gone on a tour
there before and they all loved it and
so it goes down this meter and the hands
sort first line is to pull out
contaminants loose plastic bags are
probably one of the worst contaminants
in there so they pull those if it looks
like a garbage bag and they can't see
inside it it automatically goes in the
garbage they're not going to risk
opening up a bag and dumping whatever's
in it on the line they pull out large
chunks of plastic so here they pull out
the bag they know it's recycling because
they can see it it's a blue bag and this
is how fast it runs
and then it goes through a series of
screens where the larger material in
this set of screens floats over the top
the cardboard and the paper and then all
the smaller pieces broken glass finds
shredded paper smaller plastic pieces go
through that onto another screen which
runs up to a screen with closer together
discs and then it goes through another
line of hand sorting a couple different
lines of hand sorting and then the
magnet pulls off the steel there's a
reverse eddy current magnet that kicks
off the aluminum and then this is an
optical sorter that uses jets of air and
it can detect what type of plastic runs
over the screen and shoot it off into
one of two different directions and then
it gets goes into a bunker where it's
squished together and bailed and then it
goes if it's for export it goes into a
container or if it's for local markets
it goes into a container that's bound
for a local market
so again those plastic bags are a really
bad contaminant there some other things
that they find in the stream that are
really bad our genes
you know those wrap up a disc screen in
a really bad way they find all sorts of
things in there so contamination is both
things that affect the end quality of
the material that they're looking to
have so if plastic ends up in the
cardboard that's a contaminant
contamination is also food waste that
ends up in the recycling stream or other
things that make the finished baled
product less recyclable councilmember
hunt so thank you for this overview and
the plastic bags you can see why those
are a problem I wondered if there are
other if there are other just common
mistakes you mentioned also genes but
other common mistakes that are the
biggest issues with the contamination
that make things on recyclable yeah I'll
refer that question to Kevin
sure so again Kevin Kelly with Recology
and basically we see any number of
contaminants come through I would say
the the top five of three to five are
film film plastic that isn't hasn't been
prepared properly so if you have a
plastic grocery bag we ask that you
stuff all those together tie it up and
then as you saw in the video we can
handle it a little bit better or it
won't wrap around our screens we get a
lot of styrofoam that is incorrectly
placed into the bin and and for that and
you know we have an option at the
Recology store down in gilman village
where you can drop it off food waste is
a big problem because one it's it's
moist and it ruins the fiber material
and then what else those are the three
biggest that comes to mind I can send a
more comprehensive list to Micah and he
can share it with you guys but just
remember ray don't go anywhere I think
you might be coming back so this is kind
of a follow-on to that and what kind of
public outreach has been done or is done
regularly to help the public understand
how to make this process work more
effectively right so we do a lot of work
in our office too with restaurants and
outreach to businesses to make sure that
their bins are labeled correctly we try
and work with some of the public
recycling salmon days for example to try
and get proper signage Recology is great
to work with in terms of putting out
information in the billing we add little
informational snippets to each of the
bills annually we have a service guide
that goes out that has materials lists
in that service guide and which bin
people can put them in we do a lot of
work with the schools because that's you
know a great place for them to start and
they're on top of it and fantastic so we
do a waste zero lunch program with the
school district and we've done that for
years running now where
on earth week they do waste zero
Wednesday and they compete across all
the schools to see how little they can
actually put in the garbage
and it's like a waste paper basket for
500 kids it's absolutely amazing and
then they carry that out through the
year too it shows in their end of your
diversion reports see am I missing
anything so we we do a lot about that
some of the messaging is changing a
little bit because of this and I'll show
you that at the end of this the
questions right now all right so like I
said this is kind of an evolving policy
coming from China and there have been a
lot of changes over the last two years
so if we were talking about all of them
we could spend a lot of time so I've
kind of pulled together this broad
timeline to cover and in broader strokes
the changes in the policy that's created
this market turmoil that we're seeing so
in 2013 the green fence was a policy
that was enacted that was kind of a
crackdown on rules and policies that
already existed but just had been
ignored or weren't really being enforced
on the materials that were coming into
China and so they started that crackdown
it didn't really impact us that much
here
fast forward then to February of 2017
when they announced a policy called
national sword and that's specifically
focused on halting smuggling by groups
importing materials without permits or
with fraudulent permits so to try and
clean up some of the corruption that was
in there in their import processes
throughout this whole time we've been
working with Recology and it's difficult
for them to get information on policies
out of China unless it's specifically
announced so things
keep shifting and then they find out
later on for example that no import
licenses have been issued for the month
or things like that let's see
so as as the time line moves on though
the the focus has shifted from cracking
down on illegal smuggling to assessing
quality issues with the material that's
coming in through this commingled system
so they've been increasing inspections
breaking more bails checking every
container which slows down the whole
import system in July
you know they provided notice to the WTO
confirming that they've planned to ban
select mixed paper and plastics by the
end of the year so for January 2018 and
then in November they announced a 0.5%
contamination limit on materials that
were still allowed so outside of that
mixed paper and plastic that they were
banning and most of the Murph's around
here through that sorting process you
can see 0.5 percent is pretty difficult
if not impossible to attain as things
were slowing down there were some
municipalities down in Oregon some
counties started stopping their
recycling programs and then in May China
just didn't allow any imports of any
scrap materials into the country right
around the same time there were some
tariffs announced and just recently as a
month ago a 25% tariff on clean
cardboard has been threatened all of
that material kind of had to go
somewhere the China was the largest
importer of scrap maturer from the
United States the United States was the
biggest producer of scrap material in
the in the world and so the overflow
started hitting markets in Indonesia
Vietnam Malaysia and Thailand India
other countries so in May and June those
countries started announcing stricter
standards for the material coming in
because they obviously didn't want to
become kind of the dumping ground and in
July of this summer China announced a
total ban on imports of scrap proposed
by 2020 and that timeline may or may not
shift up so
the a my hair so I got a couple
[Music]
questionable
there were companies in these countries
that were making money off doing this
people weren't doing it cuz they had to
or because you know I mean people were
making money so it's weird to me like
something happened right where it was a
viable industry and yet these government
said we don't care that our companies
are making money and employing people we
don't want it anyhow so what was that
about so the overall goal of all of
these policies from the government
standpoint there has been to reduce and
clean up the pollution that's part of
processing all of this material that was
happening a lot of it in smaller mills
that were older and they also have a
goal of not importing any post-consumer
scrap but relying on their own markets
to kind of start to fill in that gap as
they've created their middle class and
they're looking to be more
self-sufficient in both their
manufacturing and their processing so a
few things are happening there are a lot
of mills that are idle right now over
there because they're not getting the
scrap material that they need to turn
pulp into paper board they're shifting
some of the what they want to be
responsible back over here to the United
States and their China is investing in
Mills here in the United States to
process that material and then send the
pulp to China to make the paper pour
that was gonna be when you were
anticipating kind of my next question
right which is why not just do all this
here and I know you're gonna tell me
it's more expensive and I'm gonna tell
you that in general the cost to
manufacture between China and the US is
expected to cross in about 2027 at which
point won't be any cheaper to do stuff
in China that it is in the United States
now it'll still be cheaper to do things
in Indonesia Vietnam Malaysia perhaps
Thailand but this just points to the
consumers I mean if we're you're going
at the end here is like there's
consideration of fundamentally you know
sort of dismantling the
cycling system it seems like the the
correct perhaps response is to look at
the market and see what the market will
bear to do all these things in an
environmentally sustained way here in
the United States and brings bring jobs
to the United States
you're way out in front of me okay and
probably where the region is to but I
think I think that's a correct line of
thinking okay well so here's what it did
to the markets in short this is the
mixed paper market this was from the
Seattle Times it went from a hundred
dollars per ton down to where you know
you almost have to pay for it to get rid
of the material and then in discussions
with Recology for them in order to make
their material marketable they've slowed
down their lines they've added Pickers
to the line they've increased over time
and so that increases their cost to
process each ton of material well at the
same time the markets for those
materials have kind of created so that
gap there starts to show up in King
County in general the waste management
in Republic who have W UTC contractor is
which is the unincorporated King County
areas around the cities which cities
most cities have their own contracts but
so the W UTC has approved a rate change
it was a temporary six-month rate change
on the processing cost and on the market
price impacts WTC contracts rates are
set up a little differently than ours so
this doesn't translate directly we can't
just take what they did and apply it to
our rates it wouldn't work out all three
King County haulers Recology waste
management public have asked for rate
relief from their contract cities and
then King County formed what they call
the responsible recycling task force and
they're looking at a couple of different
things they're looking at messaging and
how we can coordinate messaging across
the county for what materials should go
into the bin and there
potentially asking cities to change the
list of materials that go into the bin
so in our contract there's a few
recycling commitments I just wanted to
call them out here there's a requirement
to recycling compost as part of our
contract our list of recyclables those
materials that are accepted are part of
our contract and so to change any of
those it would require a contract
amendment and they were based on winner
ecology at the time clean escapes made
their proposal to us they said we can
accept these materials we have markets
for these materials send them our way
and then in the contract expressing and
marketing recycling and compost is on
the contractor so the way our contract
was designed is different than Seattle
for example where they bear the risk of
the cost of the market for those
recyclables we didn't do that
in our contract because we don't have
the staff to assess the market all the
time and you know things like that so
this made it easier from a contract
administration standpoint most cities in
the county are moving very slowly and
kind of contemplating their different
options I met with a group of cities
today we're slowly charting what the
options are what our contract and legal
obligations are the King County
responsible recycling task force like I
said is determining if materials should
be removed from the accepted accepted
list whether we pull those plastic bags
out that are accepted here whether we
pull out different kinds of plastics
that currently have very little market
and then the messaging that we have you
know the current status is that the less
contamination in recycling the more
marketable that material is and the
better it is for the hauler and I think
for the recycling system as a whole the
messaging to residents right now that's
going out as clean dry empty because
that food waste is a big problem it
ruins the fibers and same with empty and
then Connie was talking to me a little
bit about there but the there's an
effort to reduce what we call wish
cycling which is
is looking at material and going well
you know this looks like it should be
recycled and tossing it in the bin and
that's where the styrofoam goes in and
you know different things like that so
trying to stick to the list and teach
people to kind of go back to not quite
sorting each material out like we used
to but making sure that the right things
are ending up in the bin in evaluating
some of the options just as a general
overview we're going to come back to
Council in the fall to go into more
detail on whether this has a rate
adjustment impact what we think is
reasonable whether we should make
materials list changes whether there
should be curb site audits and
contamination monitoring of the
residential and commercial streams to
try and pass that education on in as
direct way as possible about what's in
the bin and what shouldn't be in the bin
or you know considering the no action
alternative as well I have a question
sure so so right now if I want to I
think I think they had a service if I
want to buy something I could take a
picture of it and Amazon will basically
tell you how to write this technology
the the optical recognition technologies
seems like it seems like we should be
able to if not right now then very very
soon take a picture of something and
have it tell us if that's recyclable or
not we can do that all over the place
elsewhere like optical recognition
technologies are just exploding right is
that coming I haven't heard of that
coming I don't know if Kevin have you
heard of it well it's it's here and it's
in you saw in the video it's in it's in
use data in a to a small degree at our
facility currently so we we fired on
different types of plastics part of a
part of the issue with this China
situation is the notion of cross
contamination where if a brown material
ends up with like a white material
cardboard with paper that's considered
contaminated and so now what
manufacturers of Murph's have come up
with is more robust optical sorting
technology where you combine near
infrared technology and color scanning
so you can determine the material type
and the color type and now you have two
different ways of looking at the
material to determine where it goes sure
and I get that and that's cool and I
know an IR spectroscopy really well but
I'm talking about right somebody takes a
picture of a piece of styrofoam and it
says like not recycled right paper cups
are recyclable right piece of you know
greasy McDonald's wrap that says clean
right or whatever right because you
build a database of visual objects and
it becomes very easy for an expert
system to just tell somebody whether
that's recyclable not recyclable or you
better clean it so I'm not aware of
anything like that for the consumer it
brings up the point though that
manufacturers probably need to be
involved in this discussion to make sure
that they are creating products that can
in fact be recycled I think even if you
had technology like that it would not
necessarily be adopted a hundred percent
you would still have mistakes and you
would still have contamination no but I
think consumers in good faith still
sometimes they're very confused about
how to recycle and a tool you know you
you could I mean it's fairly easy to
build these databases of known objects
and you don't even have to catalogue all
the objects you catalog a few thousand
in each of the types and then you've put
an expert system on it and the software
figures out what it's the picture that
it's looking at what category it's it's
closest to sure yeah I something like
that came along it would make our lives
a lot better without a doubt
so I think yeah go ahead
I wondered about so there's this
contamination audit that it's shown here
I wondered about a sort of a lower tech
version of what Council President Mart's
was saying but just sort of a something
to educate people about this is what
somebody's trash can looks like these
are some common things that can't be
recycled and so not everybody's
individual audit but a sort of
educational tool that would be like this
is what this is what is found in the
garbage that is should be in the garbage
but it was put in the recycling right
and what you're looking at on the right
here is a contamination audit that was
done of a multi-family property and then
they take pictures and without any you
know names can give this report to the
property manager and they can circulate
it we haven't started doing that here
yet it's one of the options that can be
considered we're talking about something
different or no I well a little bit
different but just sort of it's like
some example ones so like like we have
these posters right and we can
distribute them more widely like I said
this this poster is clipped almost
directly out of our annual recycling
guide that goes out to every customer so
for example they the plastic shopping
bags that you have to bundle them
together so that would be the just an
example of showing what you're not
supposed to do and then showing what
you're supposed to do in an example okay
and then I think the the in takeaway is
that we're still kind of assessing where
to go from here
both are legal and contract parameters
and we're really working hard to
coordinate with the other cities in the
county because we feel like approaching
this from a city by city basis doesn't
make as much sense as it does to kind of
get the whole thing together because
we're all working with the same system
and the same new constraints it
councilmember hunt at the beginning
towards the beginning of the
presentation you talked about the change
in recycling it sounded like we
previously used more domestic facilities
to do the recycling and then we've gone
more and more towards exporting because
that option was available and now it's
not so are there any efforts or thought
about facilities using facilities I
think council president Mart's such done
this before but ramping up facilities
that are in the United States to take on
more of this recycling efforts and is
that something that's possible in the
short term or it's more of a 10 years
out kind of thing right that's more of a
long term solution it is starting to
happen some of the paper mills are being
a little bit retooled there I don't
believe there are any right in
Washington State there's some big ones
in the Midwest that still accept
domestic materials and they have issues
with the amount of contamination from
the commingled system so they're putting
in place some processing at those
there's like I said China has begun
investing in processing mills here in
the United States their intention again
is to have the processing happen here
and the flaked plastic would be sent to
China to make products or the pulp from
a paper mill would be sent to China to
make cardboard to send back so the other
thing this is done that I didn't really
I had a cool picture but the way the
system was set up it was almost
back-and-forth shipping scrap would go
to China finished product would come
back scrap
would go back and the disruption that
this has caused those boats have a much
longer trip now all the way around
through Malaysia and other countries and
so there's kind of a shortage of boats
to ship things now as well and so it
slowed down both the product in coming
into the United States as well as the
recycling going out and recycling is a
faucet that once you turn it on you
can't turn off so that amount of tonnage
goes into the materials recovery
facility every day at the same speed
almost without fail and so it has to go
somewhere and if there's less shipping
available some of it can get where
house-door end up stacking up and that's
where you can get some other issues like
you've seen in the news there have been
some fires at sorting facilities locally
there have been some other issues with
it getting wet outside things like that
that's a member Ramos yeah that was kind
of my question you started getting to
that because you know your thing is a
city's responses are slow contemplative
trying to figure out where to go but
this is a real issue that's happening
today so what you know that's to say
what's happening today because that's
you just said the flow is not stopping
you know that that sounds good for us
but what's what's it happened in reality
is it is that going to slowly start
heading to the landfill because there's
nowhere else for it to go you can only
hold on back things up so long and then
some things are they give so what's
what's that bigger picture and you're
saying already some places outside of
cities sounds like making some
adjustments but if there's a lot of city
of happening that yeah and and I think
this is where the whole kind of global
perspective comes in it's a lot of
material and some of it is ending up in
the landfill some of it is ending up
being sold at almost rock-bottom prices
the mills that do accept some of this
material in the United States are making
a killing right now because they can get
as much material as they need for very
low prices
I'll let I don't know if Kevin wants to
speak to it I know it's been an issue
them for sure and they're continuing to
operate and they're continuing to market
material but again that chart kind of
showed what happens it's it's costing
them money to do so to operate at the
way that they've been operating
councilmember winters time Thank You
Micah thank you so much for the
comprehensive report and the very
holistic approach that I know you and
that are are your department takes
toward this like working and talking
with other cities so I I do appreciate
that I really didn't know what to expect
this evening but I appreciate that very
much
I also want to say to Recology this is a
tough economic your post $90
a ton in the hole now compared to not
that long ago but so I don't know the
outcome the long-term outcome of the
current situation but everything that
has been done this idea of everything in
one then the degree of the sorting I
think one households I know my household
we've made a real effort to be very
smart and good with that and I think
that that makes a big difference I think
we're raising a generation of kids in
this community and serve many other
communities who that you know there's
they're throwing less away and things
are going into recycling there's a lot
of diversion that's going on and part of
it largely because of what the city has
done and what Recology waste management
has done as well and and the investments
and the improvements you made in your
facilities the Murph's the material
recovery recovery facility I do very
much appreciate that and hope this turns
out good for everybody I don't know
where it's going to go but once you know
it very much appreciated the investments
and the efforts that you have made so
far
and I will say that in the beginning of
our contract part of what we had and it
was curbside auditing of our residential
areas just to check and make sure see
how it was doing contamination wise and
residentially in Issaquah it's actually
very clean material multifamily and
commercial has a little bit more issue
with contamination it's harder to it's
it's a harder customer base to kind of
crack in terms of providing the
education and there's also less sort of
accountability at a multi
we complex you can't point to who it was
that did it you know so that's where the
auditing would potentially come into
play to help clean that up other push in
their comments so so I have one it seems
like there's sort of three potential
futures you got one where the market
attempts to correct itself and and
transfer the new economic model of
recycling to the consumer in the hopes
that the consumer will pay it right so
that's one now there is the whole system
collapses and you just barrier and
scenario everything right the third
there's a third that's kind of and I
think those are the the only two that
are actually viable with people like
like no business is gonna keep losing
huge amounts of money on every bale of
recycling right that's not a long term
nobody's gonna do that long term right
but there there's a third that I think
is a is a bad outcome that that might
happen which is that things just sort of
amble along and costs increase and there
and they're attributed to the
difficulties in recycling but meanwhile
more and more recycling is going into
the into the waste stream and more and
more cycling is getting it recycling is
getting buried the costs keep going up
many people say oh those Chinese it's
because they won't take their stuff
anymore like it seems like you really
want to make a decision on if recycling
is going to work it you have to do it in
some way that is economically viable or
you should just bury everything right
and obviously just burying everything is
bad idea but what I what I really worry
about is is dribbling and raveling along
and costs keep going up and people don't
have any confidence that the recycling
is actually getting recycled or will be
recycled down the road you know and you
know what I mean and so having some
sense of okay here's the model that
we're gonna have going forward and
here's what it's gonna do for our
ability to recycle I think this is a
region that's absolutely takes super
seriously recycling and it's a
both on the environment and carbon and
and all that stuff right but I'm just
super super worried because there isn't
a clear path forward right now that it's
going to muddle along in a way that's
going to reduce people's confidence in
recycling and in you know the economics
of waste management going forward
frankly right and you know we're a
little unique here I think with Recology
the other two major haulers in King
County also own landfills so the
economics is different they make money
either way I also think there's a fourth
option that if you're interested in
looking into so the the e-cycle
washington program was a great model of
extended producer responsibility and
hugely successful and it put the cost of
recycling the product back on the
producers of the product so computer
manufacturers paid into the system and
then they helped pay for and create the
system that took the tape made the
take-back Network for all of those
electronics and the amount of tons that
got recycled this part of that program
was fantastic and it was hugely
successful BC has an extended producer
responsibility for packaging so
packaging companies pay into the system
and then at the end of the life they own
the packaging that comes back to them so
there are different models out there too
other than just putting it on the the
consumers or land filling it and I think
you're right this is absolutely a time
of transition where we're gonna have to
head in one of those directions and
there's a lot of discussions going on on
how that heads and a lot of it as far
above my head but it's fascinating to
watch I think and a good opportunity
neither council member Ramos it's a
quick one just is you think you slightly
mentioned the fact of reducing materials
that are accepted and you know just for
myself thinking of you know I'd rather
you know take half the materials and
recycle them well and the other half
just give up on them because they
be done is a way of doing that if we go
back to you know what was the first
thing what aluminum cans and then
bottles right kind of kind of stuff
steel that's done here whatever those
kinds of thing you know think about that
whatever we can do well I'd rather do
part of it well then try to do more than
we can get done because it just doesn't
work and go to that so just my thought
the general has nothing
awesome thank you any other comments as
with the other two topics I will ask if
there's any public comment this evening
Davee Kapler again and this is a subject
I've been biting my tongue for years but
just the other day I walked by the city
dumpster out here and there was a
cannibalized computer in the garbage
side a whole bunch of steel sides from
computers or other electronic stuff and
then of course and the garbage side is a
whole bunch of recyclable stuff and this
is chronic the city is you go across the
street here to the so-called recycle
container over there that the
restaurants use and it's full of sopping
wet garbage mixed in with the
recyclables it's just crazy
and it's got to change I think I mean I
don't think we're following our contract
because we're delivering we're not
delivering garbage we're mixing mixed
garbage and recyclables in one can and
another can where we're mixing garbage
and unrecyclable so run recyclable out
here the city's
dumpster for recyclables doesn't have a
lid or it's broken so all the cardboard
that's in there nine months of the year
is worthless and just compounds their
problems we got to get our city act
together we got to get our community
together and you've got to do a lot more
with the result e family in business
it's it's gross thank you for your
comments any other public comment this
evening hearing none we are adjourned
thank you all very much thank you for
the viewers at home
you