Okay, welcome everyone. I, Council Member Walsh, call the March 17, 2026 City Council Planning, Development, and Environment Committee to order. I am joined by Deputy Council President Jen and Council Member Nichols. Uh, the first item on our agenda is public comment. Um, and I will note we have no one in person. Um, clerk, do we have anyone online? Are we good on our video? Yeah. Is there anybody online? No. Okay. Well, um, I will always note you can email city council isquawwah.gov and reach us at any time. And if there is anybody who shows up, please let me know because there will be public comment opportunities after each of our agenda items. The next item of business is approval of the minutes. Uh the minutes were distributed to the committee in advance. Are there any corrections? Seeing none, the minutes are approved as pre um presented. So we've got two agenda items tonight. uh both done by Stacy Vin McKinstry um our sustainability manager. The first is COMM 0251, the Isqua climate action plan proposed policies and updates followed by COMM 0257 pathway and timeline for climate action plan adoption. We'll get the staff presentation, committee Q&A, if there's anybody there for public comment after that point, and then the committee deliberation and recommendation. Are we good on TV? All of that. Okay, just making sure you know we weren't going to have to go back and repeat ourselves. Take it away, Stacy. >> Thank you. Uh, good evening, Chair Walsh, Deputy Council President Jen, and Council Member Nichols. Uh, my name is Stacy Vin McKinstry. I am the sustainability manager with the city. Right. So this evening um we are going to be reviewing some proposed high impact actions that were proposed for the climate action plan and then we are looking for direction from you all on how to or whether or not to incorporate the recommendations into the climate action plan. Um tonight uh that direction that we seek is that uh whether or not uh council directs us to incorporate high impact actions in the 2026 isqua climate action plan update. We have previously shared with you the background of how the 2021 climate action plan was developed and adopted. Um tonight I wanted to briefly summarize for you all on how we are going through the process of updating this plan for 2026. In the spring and summer of 2025, we worked with a number of subject matter experts to form committees and receive early review on targets and actions for the climate action plan. staff have been going through a process to review other relevant climate action plans and identify uh opportunities to incorporate sim similar actions into our plan. For example, Belleview and Redmond recently updated their plans. We have held early meetings with the transportation advisory board, park board, planning policy commission to review input from committees and our approach to updating actions. We have held multiple meetings with the environmental board to review proposed revisions section by section of the plan. And then we've held follow-up meetings with TAB PPC and the park board uh this winter uh to follow up on their recommendations and additional revisions to the actions. In the fall, we held a community engagement event uh to seek input from our community members on the plan update. And this winter we had a student-led student focused survey uh to receive input from youth on the plan update. Following input that we have from the committee tonight, our next steps that we are planning on is to take a full set of revised targets and actions to the environmental board later this month um and continue reviewing those in April unless we are directed otherwise. To summarize uh the meeting that we held with this committee last month on February 3rd, we presented results from our greenhouse gas emissions inventory and a potential pathway for IAP adoption. This committee expressed concerns about the ability for us to meet the targets that are laid out in the climate action plan, expressed interest in engaging earlier in the review process, and requested that staff return with a set of actions and policies that would significantly reduce emissions in our community in line with our greenhouse gas reduction goals. The committee requested that staff focus on poly policies that address transportation and building energy use. These two areas make up 86% of our communitywide greenhouse gas emissions and they really are the priority for focusing our emissions reduction. The committee requested that we return in March to discuss the big policy ideas and input from our city committees um commissions and boards. We approached the policy review by first assessing climate pan plans and policies of jurisdictions that are really known to be leaders in climate space. Um, as well as reaching out to climate advocacy organizations for their input on policies that would have the highest impact on communitywide greenhouse gas emissions reduction. Taking this feedback and research, we then developed a list of potential policies that were brought to the transportation advisory board and planning policy commission. Both the commission and board reviewed the policies and provided feedback which we then took and developed into staff recommendations. Tonight I am going to go through the policies that we presented to TAB and PPC, share a bit of their feedback and then following uh those policies I will summarize the staff recommendations. One note about the big policy ideas. We let the board and commission know that they were very conceptual. We pulled these ideas from several uh cities uh at a very conceptual level. We did not have time to vet them thoroughly, assess how they would be right sized for Isiqua. We really wanted that early feedback on the concept and if the concept was supported and this uh policy was adopted into the climate plan, the first step would be to do a more thorough assessment and figure out how we would rightsize this policy for our city um and implement it. So next um I can pause there see if there's any questions on the process and then I will move into the big policy ideas and the feedback we received. >> I'm not seeing any questions. So let's go ahead. >> I'll start with the transportation and land use policies. Um the first one that we brought to the boards and commissioned was the concept of removing parking minimums for new and redeveloped multifamily buildings. Uh looking at neighboring or uh jurisdictions across the country, this is really a major policy that's used to reduce single occupancy vehicle use um and allowing the developers um or allowing the market to really drive the parking needs. When we shared this uh concept with TAB and PPC, um TAB was generally very supportive. Um they did have some concerns around spillover parking and ensuring there'd be access to transit. Uh PPC had quite a few concerns around spillover parking. Um I do want to acknowledge uh the conversation that council had last week um around parking minimums and I'll talk a little bit more about that in the staff recommendations. The next policy we looked at was increasing multifamily requirements for installing electric vehicle ready stalls. Uh this would include doing the conduit and electrical work during a new development or reconstruction. Um it is much less expensive to do it at that stage versus post construction. Um this would be requiring uh the city to go above and beyond state standards. Redmond has recently passed a policy where they require 100% EV ready stalls in multifamily. Um we brought this forward because Redmond um shared with us that they did not hear concerns from the development community when this was passed. In sharing with TAB and PPC, TAB was generally supportive um based on the experience that Redmond had had. They had wanted to um have us do a little bit more research and understand Redmond's process to develop this policy. But in general, we're supportive. Uh PPC expressed concerns around grid capacity as well as added cost uh for developers to install the EV ready stalls um at the time of development. The third policy we looked at uh came out of Vancouver uh BC. This was a policy that would require electric vehicle charging at fuel stations or else the fuel stations would be charged an additional um BNO tax. Vancouver passed this. Uh they actually have not implemented the policy. They pulled out before the policy went or they pulled the policy back before it went into effect. In discussions with TAB and PPC, they didn't necessarily think it was um that this would be needed, that fueling stations, gas stations were probably not the right location for our EV charging. They were concerned about the costs um from the additional BNO tax being passed on to consumers and really encourage us to look at other innovative um and incentive based ways to install EV charging throughout the city. The next concept came out of Berkeley. Um this is uh where they've passed what they call a transit first policy. Uh it is really putting transit at the front of decision-making where leadership has committed that transit will be considered as a top priority when it comes to budget projects. Um everything really is centered around transit and making access to transit more reliable and accessible. In discussing this concept with TAB and PPC, they really felt that this was the intent of the mobility action plan and that uh it wasn't really needed in our community. Then moving into building and energy policies or I can pause there if we want to discuss. >> No, I'd like to go through and hear the staff recommendations and then we'll take them in chunks. >> Okay. uh building and energy policies. Uh the first concept we brought here was a benchmarking program that would go um beyond where our current Washington state claim buildings performance standard is. So this would reach buildings that are under 20,000 square feet or could even go above and beyond the current standards that Washington state has um for buildings to meet energy performance standards. So this would be in light of um Seattle has passed their own program that goes above and beyond state program uh excuse me state requirements has higher energy efficiency or emission standards for their buildings. Uh PPC expressed concern about the cost of building owners and the capacity of the city to manage a program like this. Um, I did want to note here, and I shared this with PPC, that the city does run a voluntary program where we support building owners in meeting compliance with current state standards. Um, we have difficulty even bringing uh building owners into that program, which is free and voluntary. Um, and then the next policy is turning to the residential side. Uh here we shared the concept of implementing a home energy score. This is a concept that's been raised at the state legislature several times. It is not passed at the state level. Um but it is implemented in Oregon and other communities around the country uh where a seller is required to have a home inspection and publicize a home energy score. Um in Oregon uh there are incentives and rebates in order to make upgrades to the home. Taking it a step further, uh the city of Berkeley has a program in place called the building emission saving ordinance where they require a home to meet a certain energy efficiency uh to score a number of points in terms of energy efficiency at the time of sale. Um or else those investments need to be made in the home uh or uh it is passed on to the seller to make those uh upgrades to the home. There are different uh points assigned to different upgrades, whether it's weatherization, replacing a gas stove, um installing a heat pump, you earn a certain number of points that you have to make at the time of sale. Um in discussing this concept with PPC, there were concerns around equity, the cost for upgrades, um and really um just making it more expensive to to buy homes in our community. two more to go through here. Um, and then another policy we looked at for building and energy uh was instead of looking at the time of the home being sold is a time of replacement. So if the equipment fails or reaches the end of life um this would be a requirement to replace that equipment with a higher energy efficiency equipment um or uh electric equipment. Um there are communities that have in place uh a time of replacement requirement. for example, for hot water heaters. Uh there were concerns expressed by PPC around this approach as well. Um the higher potential higher costs for energy efficiency equipment which would decrease affordability and just the ability to right size this kind of program for every home. Uh the number of exemptions that might be needed for a home for example. And then our final policy we looked at this was a proposal from the environmental board which was to look at a dark sky ordinance that would be more that would be focused really on our commercial buildings. Uh this would be in terms to reduce energy use um improve nighttime ambience. Um the city did uh does have in place a number of uh requirements around lighting and title 18. Um and our planning team did share that uh it is still difficult at this point for developers to meet some of those requirements. What the environmental board was looking at was going above and beyond that for commercial buildings um and reducing their energy use in the evening. Uh PPC did express some concerns around requirements of specifically focusing on commercial properties um and uh safety associated with uh darker properties in the evening um and really wanted us to focus more on technical support and incentives. So that concludes the the policy ideas that were brought to PPC. Um, next what I was going to do is just provide a really brief summary and then move into the staff recommendations. Right. So I'll say in general the feedback we receive from TAB and PPC is that these policies are not right sized for isqua. There was a lot of concern around affordability increased costs to residents and developers for implementing them. I will note there were a few policies that were supported uh reducing or putting restrictions on parking um and uh TAB also generally supported the increased EV ready stalls in multifamily buildings. What we did after receiving that feedback was rework the policies um to really focus in on technical support, outreach and incentives, which is what we heard from the board and committees. Before moving into the staff recommendations, um I wanted to share that these are not big policies that will really move the needle on greenhouse gas emissions reduction. we are trying to balance affordability, partnerships with our community, um improving a quality of life and really access to the different programs. So, we recognize that the city has a number of priorities that we need to balance um and so we have tried to uh consider those priorities in these recommendations. We believe that these actions will make big advancements in our climate work, but also doing that while not ensuring that we're not driving up costs or making it more expensive to build or um uh isolating ourselves from uh partnerships with our business community and our our community members. Right? So, we have six recommendations with a big caveat on that first one. Um so I'll first start with the transportation and land use recommendations based on um the research that we had seen across the country and uh the feedback that we received from TAB in particular. Uh the first recommendation we were proposing was looking at opportunities to remove parking minimums. I recognize this is evolving conversation and that council uh discussed this last Monday and so this recommendation is a little out of date even since then. Um but that staff will continue to work with our planning department um to uh move forward what we think will be best both from a planning and sustainability perspective in terms of looking at whether it's parking maximums or another approach. um as our planning staff update code based on state requirements. Uh the second recommendation we have is to look at the feasibility of developing a program that offers technical support and incentives to increase charging at multifamily properties. Uh this is an approach that Belleview is taking where instead of increasing requirements for EV ready or EV charging at multifamily, they're running a program that really supports and works in partnership with their multifamily buildings um and providing that technical support. Uh the third option is uh expanding electric vehicle charging access in Isiqua through incentives, looking at creative solutions such as uh public private partnerships or other ways um instead of imposing requirements at certain um like at gas stations for example. Uh we heard a lot of input from PPC and TAB that they wanted to make sure that charging was going in the right areas that would support um our retailers in Isiqua and make sure that it's located in an area that someone will want to spend 20 to 40 minutes while charging their car. Uh the fourth recommendation under transportation and land use is that we would bring on a consultant and really take a hard look at our city code and identify where we can remove barriers to um making sure our residents and businesses can increase energy efficiency and renewable energy. The city's done a lot to remove barriers, uh, reducing setbacks, noise requirements, trying to streamline the permitting process for solar. Uh, but we think that there might be an opportunity to take another look at that code and see where we might um remove some of those challenges. And then the next two recommendations are around building an energy. Um, so our fifth recommendation is evaluating the feasibility of running a voluntary energy benchmarking program that would capture the buildings that are not currently covered under our state clean buildings act. This program could be run in partnership with PSSE um or some of our neighboring cities that are interested and provide technical support, individual support in accessing etc. Um we are currently in the process of starting to look at what kind of impact this type of program might have in terms of reducing emissions in our city given our building stock. And then our last uh recommendation is instead of looking at home energy score or a time of sale requirement or a time of replacement requirement, um really uh enhancing our current energy smart east side heat pump program where we would look beyond um our current contractor list to make sure that we're educating other contractors in promoting heat pumps, providing quotes for heat pumps. Um looking at additional incentives we might be able to offer to our entire community. Um and really just expanding that program both for electrification as well as weatherization of our um residents. Um this one we are also starting to look at uh the potential greenhouse gas emission savings uh through an expanded program especially with adding on that weatherization component to a program. Um, one additional thing I just want to note is this is a very small subset of the actions that we are advancing in the climate action plan. We have a number of other actions that we're refining and updating around our programming, expanding outreach and incentives, um, engaging businesses through technical support, etc. So that full list of actions is what we'll be bringing to the environmental board in a couple of weeks. Um but these are the additional um recommendations based out of that policy analysis. So that concludes the review of the policies. Um the input that we're looking for tonight from you all is whether you support the staff recommendations and request that we continue working through um the process to update actions in the IAP. Uh whether you want us to revisit those bold policy ideas um and continue to develop them into the IAP update or do you want us to come uh kind of start over look further and bring back an updated list to PTE for further discussion. Okay. So, looking first for questions. Um, if there are any questions about any of these items and then we'll see if there's any public comment. So, Council Member Nichols, >> questions. Do you want to divide this up into any chunks or just All right. Um, so questions first. Um, first on the parking minimums policy. Um looking back just trying to compare what uh was in this packet versus what PPC reviewed um one of the differences there was that um the recommendations were around um frequent transit um as a as a term. What is frequent transit or what did frequent transit mean at least in that package? >> Yeah, great question. Um that was a term offered by one of our planners of transit that is reliable and regular. I believe it's used at the state level. So it is a commonly used term throughout the planning community. Um so I can I can provide you with those details but that was what how we shared it with TAB. Um there was discussion at TAB whether or not we needed to include the transit. I think they were open to um not necessarily having a transit requirement around parking minimums. Um but it was a concern they expressed and wanted to be explored just how that might impact our community. Okay. Um, yeah, I'll have some follow-ups on that once you can that definition. Um, another question. Um, for the EV ready stall requirements, what does technical support mean? >> Um, in terms of what could be offered through that program? >> Yeah. Could you just clarify what the recommendation really is? >> Yeah. I think, um, again, these are very conceptual. I think what we would be doing through a program and again that would be developed based on the need and probably discussing with developers what they actually need um would be uh working with them to do either some initial design look at electrical capacity um connect them with incentives so those are the types of things that Belleview is doing through their program which they have just launched. So we're looking a little bit to see how that program evolves over time and if we think it would be a good fit here. Get very conceptual so that could be developed to meet the need of our um our community. >> And then just to be to make sure I'm clear too in that recommendation there is the staff recommendation is not currently to require EV ready uh builds. Is that correct? >> Not to acquire above um the state requirement. Yeah, based based on the feedback from PPC um and comments we received from the community. I will say TAB seemed a little more open to that and exploring as long as we looked further into the research Redmond had done and any push back that they're receiving now that that is in place. >> Okay. And then last question on policy 8, the dark side ordinance, uh what specifically were the uh difficulties with meeting the current lighting standards that were expressed? >> Yeah, that's a great question. I'll have to follow up with our planning team on that. They um just noted that since Title 18 has been updated with some stronger requirements, they are hearing a lot of challenges. So, I can follow up with with them on that and provide you more information. >> Okay, that's it for questions for me. >> Deputy Council President Shen. >> Um yeah, thank you for putting this together. Um so, I have a question on the EV charging. So it looked like the options were to basically you know just provide support and then to do 100% EV ready. Have we there's kind of a middle ground I see there which is 100% EV capable or even going one level below that is basically just having the conduit and the wires there not necessarily providing the additional electrical capacity. basically making it so that if you're gonna, you know, install EV chargers in the future, you don't have to like drill open the wall to put the wires in, which that seems to be the big thing that if you don't do at the time of construction is going to, you know, bite you in the butt later. And I think if we're talking about affordability, I think >> a key part of that is making sure we're doing upfront investments to not have to do, you know, have to tear things apart and invest a bunch more money later. Um, so I'm curious if that's something like is that something that we have considered as an option? >> We didn't specifically raise that. I know there are conversations at the state level around increasing the EV capable requirements. Um, and so that's something we could definitely include in the um, IAP that we would further explore and determine if there's a a right number to land above the state requirements. >> Great. Yeah. just cuz I mean I I'm hesitant to do anything that requires getting a bigger electrical service, which if we're going on the definition of EV cable, you have to get electrical service to your property that's the full size of if you had like 600 cars charging there. Um, and at least I've heard from our planning department that this can actually be a major delay to getting um development built. So, I'm not for anything that does that. But I think, you know, can we require people to put the wires in their parking garage? I think that's a totally different thing that's actually not going to be like prohibitively expensive. So definitely something to explore. >> Okay. >> Um and then on the dark sky piece, um I mean in terms of like light that goes into the sky, to me it seems like street lights are an issue there. Is that something that would be included in this dark sky ordinance or is it only commercial properties? that's covered in other components at title 18. Um, for street lights, uh, there are a lot of dimming capabilities that we're looking at, especially as we transition to LEDs, which are a lot brighter. We are looking to pilot some dimming, um, to see if that makes a big impact. Um, but that's not something we specifically covered here, but we could consider looking again at our street standards for street lighting, whether we want to. >> Yeah, I guess I'm curious. I mean, in terms of street lights, right, like the the ones that look the most aesthetically pleasing are often the ones that are actually the worst in terms of night sky things. So, the one, you know, the ones with the little tent cap things, they really don't send light into the sky. Then the historic ones on Front Street, you know, they're clear at the top, they look nice, but they're not great for dark sky. So, is is that something we're looking into in terms of like, you know, standards in terms of where the light gets blocked and all that stuff? Yeah, absolutely. I can take a look back at our title 18 code to see how that is covered, but if there's other opportunities we'd want to explore with the planning team. Great. Thank you. >> Okay. I was trying to look it up myself, but um did we not adopt code related to EV capable? I believe there was an ordinance in 2021. Can you remind me? We did and at that time when we adopted that code we were going above the state standards. The state standards then surpassed what we passed. Um and so we are now in alignment with the state standards. We updated our code to catch up to the state. Okay. Fantastic. Thank you for catching me up while the state caught up. Um okay. So, having had our questions answered, I will just check in with Amanda and see if Do we have anybody online? Any public comments? >> One second, please. >> Yeah, no problem. >> Currently, we do not have anyone for a comment. >> Okay, great. And we don't have anybody in the audience physically with us, so we'll skip over the public comment. So toward feedback, I would love to start with and maybe you can kind of go back to the um transportation and land use and then we'll do a second segment on buildings and energy code. Uh council member Nichols. >> Okay. As far as comments on So let me just make sure I got the order you want these to go. So transport and >> yeah the transportation and land use was kind of how they grouped them together. So I think that's >> one through >> Yep. I was just looking >> Yes. One through four. >> Okay. One through four. Got it. >> Um okay. So I I'd like us to discuss and possibly recommend going back to a ver to the version that was closer to what PPC saw. Um, and then with a few additions to that as well. So, um, and to be clear, so, um, so everyone else is aware, uh, the the PPC version of this had a slightly different recommendation or series of recommendations, um, starting from the initial, please correct me if I get this wrong, but, uh, my my my read on that meeting and reading that packet was the original, uh, version included.5 miles around frequent transit. Um, and then that was the staff recommendation was to reduce to 0.25 25 miles around frequent transit. Um I'd like us to discuss going back to that uh also with some definitions of what frequent transit is because we need to be precise about that. I think it's a sort of situation where a map could really help um once those points are defined because it'll make a big difference I think if it's >> every single bus stop versus our our to etc. Um, I'd also like to propose that we add specifically add in um the regional growth center boundaries as an area to adopt this policy in. Um, I think that's the area where it best aligns with the other goals we've been discussing recently on affordability um as well as our our climate desires and our transit needs as well. Um it also helpfully help will be another forcing function that if we if we go above state uh uh minimums there it will incentivize growth in that area as opposed to other areas in the city. So I think that's a potentially good reason to do it as well. Um so that's my my my main thought on policy one. Do we want to discuss anything now or just keep going? >> Okay. on policy 2 EV ready charging. Um I I'd like to see that brought back to also something a little closer to where that was before. I think this is a good this so I getting ready for a an EV future I think is something we have to do at some point. I think this is a good thing that we'll that we should we we should be fine being leaders in um and even a bit ahead of the state at some time. Um and then they can catch up again. Um, I agree with council member Jang's comment that uh it would it it doesn't seem sensible necessarily to require EV service at every station. We don't have 100% EVs. We won't for a while. Um, so I I think that's something the the the market should easily be able to decide on its own, but to make that quick and efficient when it does happen. um preparing for that uh in the more nuanced ways that council member Jang described which were uh in a way that won't require as much as possible won't require electrical permitting and stuff like that. So not having to connect it to the actual grid, not having to connect the service lines into it. Get get the plumbing in place to the extent the plumbing um exists and sometimes that is actual tubes um and the wires. See if we can get that in place um and have that part. And I think that's a I think that's a useful trade-off when we're talking about costs of these things because they do all have costs. I don't want to forget that. Um we if we are if we're looking at reducing parking minimums in areas like central Isiqua that will reduce the cost of development. Um incre if we're looking at increasing EV ready stall requirements that will increase it but it's by a far far lower amount. So I think it's a perfectly reasonable trade-off to be making. Um, and then finally on the transit first policy, um, I read through the Berkeley transit first, at least I skimmed through it. I honestly didn't read the whole thing, but um, there was one part in there that I really liked that I think our current mobility action plan is actually missing. Um and that's uh so this is specifically um and just if we want to go back to it later, it's general plan policy T4 that states that they it will give priority to alternative transportation and transit over single occupant vehicles on transit routes identified on the transit network map. Um so to me in an Isukqua context that would mean priority to transit in central Isqua around areas where we plan to b build out central transit in much uh greater degrees. This and the difference here to me is that this is this is kind of an affirmative statement. We will do this versus in our current mobility action plan the closest analog is uh mat7.2 two where it says greater level levels of auto delay may be permissible where mitigations to improve intersection level of service would degrade conditions and it goes on from there which is much much more of a defensive posture. Um basically it tolerates some worse performance as opposed to taking it from the lens of prioritizing transit. Um, I think that distinction could matter in practice and I would recommend that we consider adding language like that into our uh, climate related plans as well on which is on top of what is already in the um, mobility action plan which is quite good and comprehensive. But uh, I think this is through through the exercise that you guys went through of looking what other cities have done. This is an interesting example of somebody taking a slightly different lens on things that I think could help us. So those that's my comments on one through four. >> Thank you, Deputy Council President. >> Great. Um okay, lots of comments um on policy number one about removing parking minimums. I think with frequent transit, there was some like beef about this in the legislature last year because of how it related to middle housing and then what came out in the transit oriented development bill was because Originally, frequent transit was any sound transit stop and sound transit can change the routes. I mean, they're literally going to change the 554 route imminently. So, I think there was some concern about using that to make land use decisions because, you know, then things could get out of compliance. So I think in terms of reducing our uh parking minimums, I think either doing something with the major transit stop which is like fixed infrastructure like a light rail station or a park and ride um or you know potentially just doing the regional growth center boundaries because that's something where we have you know many many documents and the whole regional planning agency has decided that's where I want to focus their growth. I think that makes a lot of sense and then we're not coming up with a different definition that's you know different. Um I think on I already talked about my preference on um EV uh ready stalls. I think potentially one level below EV capable where you don't need to have an oversized, you know, electrical service at the capacity to charge the entire garage full of cars could be some, you know, I I don't know what this would necessarily be called, but I do think that's probably the least cost way to go about it. That would also reduce future costs. Um, I agree with TAB and PPC that requiring EV charging at gas stations seems not really like something we need to be doing. Um, in terms of the transit first policy, I think it's an interesting concept. I also think Berkeley is a very different city from Isqua. I mean, I went to school there. You know, there's like a population of 40,000 college students, most of whom do not drive. There's tons of busings running around everywhere. It's very dense. I, you know, they're building like 30story buildings for college students. So, it is kind of a different situation where they have tons of buses whereas we like don't. Um, but I do think just kind of taking more of this approach of like how do we prioritize non-drive alone people in our mobility action plan. So, one of the things that's always been very interesting to me is that level of service for cars is basically determined by how long you have to wait at a traffic light. And we don't define level of service for pedestrians or bikes in the same way. Right? There's some of these like crosswalks where you have to sit there for like five minutes while the car even if the there's not that many cars going by as I'm thinking especially Highlands Drive those crosswalks are terrible. Um and instead we instead base it on safety which is important don't get me wrong but I think it's you know we value the time of motorists a lot more than the time of pedestrians. And I think that's something that, you know, and maybe it's not necessarily like the climate action plan isn't necessarily the right place to put that, but it's something that I think we should take into, you know, our transportation policies, especially because one of our main climate action goals is to reduce vehicle miles traveled. Um, so I think, you know, in the vein of reducing vehicle miles traveled, I don't re like a lot of these land use changes kind of get at it obliquely. I think if we're really, you know, trying to figure out, okay, how do we reduce vehicle miles traveled? I think part of it has to be having more better options to get around town without your car, having more, you know, locations or destinations close to where people live, like neighborhood cafes or amenities. Um, and I think, you know, even if it's slightly outside of the scope of what can be done by the sustainability team, I do think those are important to note as actions that will have an impact on the climate as well. >> Thank you. Um, I will give my feedback on this and I think I'm going to start with an overarching idea which is I appreciate that we came back at this and came at it and said first of all we're great for having this climate action plan IAP and I'm glad that we are reviewing it and refreshing it. um but also whether or not we are achieving our goals and whether or not there are things that we can move the needle forward and asking our expert team to go out and talk to other experts I think is a great way to do it. So when we're looking at these areas that are the most impactful for greenhouse gas emissions, this is really us saying, okay, is there a way that we can move the needle forward that's something that is right sized for isiqua. So I think um the parking one um and reducing parking minimums to me is the most interesting. Um, I think this builds in with a lot of the other conversations we've been having about creating a more walkable um, central Isqua area. Um, improving and decreasing the cost of building and finding a way to incentivize development in that area that will achieve all of those things as well as support future transit. So, I think there's a lot of things that come together there. Um, I agree with council member Nichols about the, you know, 0.5 miles and regional growth center. I think the idea of creating a definition around fixed or permanent transit locations is a really good way for us to achieve that without as much uncertainty on things like sound transit routes that we don't have any control over. Um, so I I really think this is one that we should look into. Maybe that happens through a few tweaks in the IAAP language, but is ultimately achieved through this council um conversation about building. And I think that could be a good way um to do that with um EV capable. I well, first of all, I agree EV capable over EV ready is probably the way to go so that we are not disincentivizing or causing problems um with building new homes for people. But I think this also ties into some of the council conversation about building um because we have our sustainable development standards and one of the things we talked about was are there ways that we can provide options and so that would be one thing that I would think about but I'm also pretty darn comfortable just creating that as a requirement because these are buildings that are going to be here for 50 plus years And um I think there is a way that we can work with our relationship with builders to figure out a way that doesn't run into some of these issues, but still sets those buildings and those future residents up for success, particularly if we're pairing it with a lower um parking requirement. And so I think that type of trade-off working together is a really good way of doing it. um EV charging. As an EV owner, I don't want to be at a fuel station. That's one of the benefits of having an EV is I don't have to do that. So, I agree with staff and TAB and PPC. Um and then transit first policy. This is a really interesting one. Um I appreciate that both PPC and TAB say that that was the intent of the mobility action plan. I haven't seen that from a council standpoint. I haven't seen things that then came forward to us that said we're doing this transit oriented project instead of a car oriented project because the mobility action plan said so. So I think this is one again could probably live within the IAP saying this is a policy we want to achieve, but I think it really needs to be a good conversation with the transportation advisory board tab um on ways that we can truly achieve this. I think there were some good ideas brought up here. Um, but I think to me this really calls out just because it says so in a plan doesn't mean that it did so enough at a code or ordinance or even uh feeling of government um idea that we really saw any um significant changes on that. And I think this is a good way for us to start thinking about things though I do agree we are nowhere near where Berkeley is with a college with um some of that density but I do think it gives us an idea of how do we change some of our mindset so that we are thinking in that way. Great. Okay. Moving on to the second. Oh yes, Deputy Council President. Um yeah, I realized I had a couple other um kind of like transportation related ideas for us to consider beyond these four. Um so, you know, just basic things like could we potentially offer incentives for doing bike rack installations at places that don't have them. For example, Meadow Shopping Center. I go there. I lock my bike to these weird gutter thingies because that's the only thing that's there. This is not an expensive thing to do. Um that could, you know, help encourage more cycling. Um I know uh Stacy I think you have gotten some funding to do an ebike uh rebate program. So it would be great to actually include that as a climate policy. Um I know also wash in the past had funding to do ebike lend ebike lending library but also you know if we want people to bike more we do need to have safe infrastructure. And one of the things that I'm particularly interested in is seeing if we can work with the school district on like safe routes to school. Um especially you know just if you've ever driven past Isakiqua High School or Isqua Middle School around the time that school gets in or out there is I mean it's like clearly one of the biggest drivers of traffic in the city um other than you know is qual road itself but that's a whole other issue. Um, so I think, you know, to the extent that we can partner with ISD to even have like signage and, you know, figure out where the infrastructure gaps are so that students can get to school, reduces traffic for everyone. Um, and also a lot of these kids can't drive because they're under 16. So, um, that's some that would be something I'd be interested in. Um, on the topic of EVs, I think, you know, in PBC, there was a comment from someone about how like there's a condo complex near them where to put in like two or three EV chargers is going to cost $100,000. I've heard this from some of my other friends. You know, my friend had a neighbor who wanted to put an EV charger. this person like there were other people on their street that had EV chargers but this person just happened to be the unlucky one where this one EV charger was going to tip them over the line to requiring a bigger transformer and then this one person was going to have to eat the entire cost which is tens of thousands of dollars. So there's got to be some better way to do this and this is like a PSSE issue that you know there's other communities around the state facing issues like this and I think this is something where you know if it is a concern for us then I think we should consider you know advocating for changes and being part of those conversations because it doesn't like I don't know you know uh Stacy we've had all these conversations about what you know what can K4C do to be actually influential and useful and I think those are exactly the types of conversations we should be engaging in at a regional level with our utilities, with the state legislature to be like, okay, clearly what we're doing now isn't working. Like, let's figure out a better way and get it so that we can, you know, build our infrastructure in a way that is not unduly impacting whoever just happens to be unlucky. Great, great feedback. More there. Um, okay. And then uh looking for feedback on the next section which I believe is buildings and energy. Anyone want to start there? Deputy council president. Okay. This is exciting for me because this is my uh professional area of expertise. Um I think both of these actions are fine, but they're also like very unlikely to result in meaningful change at the scale that we need. Um, also to go back to one of the other items which was like the home energy score thing. So I did look up there's it's like a uh pro program of the department of energy to do this home energy score thing and there's no like assessors that can do the home energy score assessment in the entire state of Washington. They only have them in Oregon because Portland did their program. So you know there's some level of like we would have to train people to do this home energy score verification. So that's also a potential barrier to doing that. Also, just in general, I'm very skeptical about how much just benchmarking and reporting on emissions actually moves the needle. So, my company does a lot of work in New York. In New York, every single building over 25,000 square feet has to tape a sign in their window saying what their energy rating is. So, you can see if buildings are A through D. And this is like a topic of conversation amongst normal people. They're like, "Oh, I this building that I live that I work in or whatever has a score of a D. This restaurant has a score of whatever." So, it's like very top of mind for people. And yet people are not actually decarbonizing their buildings. I think the research shows, you know, benchmarking reduces energy use by like 2% overall. That's not that much. So I think kind of the ROI is not really there. Um I think in general we know what we need to do, right? Like we need to reduce fossil fuel use in buildings. I did find it interesting. I I think like in our strategic plan dashboard, we're tracking electricity use in the city. We're not tracking gas use. And at least from my perspective, as we decarbonize, we get more heat pumps, we get more EVs, electricity use is probably going to go up. That's actually fine, especially if you know with the Clean Energy Transformation Act, PSSE actually builds out all the clean electricity infrastructure that they need to. Um, so I do think we really need to be laser focused on reducing the amount of natural gas that is burned in our buildings. And um, I think part of that is like incentivizing heat pumps, but also like we really shouldn't be putting in new gas equipment unless we really really need to. And so, you know, one of the potential options is like if you're going to put in a new, you know, like central AC, you your AC must have a reversing valve so that it can also operate as a heat pump. And we already have a heat pump incentive, that probably should cover that cost differential for households under 150% of AMI, which is something like $200,000 a year. So, I think, you know, if you're above that level, hopefully you're in a financial situation where the extra cost of a heat pump is um acceptable. But I think like we we do need to actually take seriously this idea that like if we put in a new gas furnace now, it's going you're going to be using it for like 15 or 20 years. You know, it's going to be here until 2041 at least. And so like we also I'm we also don't want to make people rip out equipment that already exists. So I think anything related to you know having to update your property at time of sale. Like what if you had just installed a new you know gas water heater in 2020? Are you going to have to rip that out and put in an electric one? That doesn't really make sense. And that's the type of thing that causes people to get grumpy. So I think you know to the extent that like if people have to replace their equipment because it's old and failing then we should do everything we can to make sure that it is not fossil fuel. I also think my honest opinion is even if you know someone installs a heat pump it's probably okay to still have like a gas furnace for backup if it gets really cold. Like I'm not super like dogmatic about that. I think is like if we're getting rid of 90% of the gas use that's great. Um I think >> can I ask a question about it? So I didn't hear whether you were saying from that you really want it to be a requirement like you think this is something that should be a policy in IAP or whether you weren't sure. Can you clarify? >> Yes. So, I think we should have a requirement that says if you're going to put in a new AC, it has to be a heat pump. Um, but I don't think we should say if you have an existing gas furnace, you need to rip it out. So, more on the any time there is a replacement, you shouldn't put a new one in, but not um upgrades at the time of sale. >> Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Um and then the other thing is so on green one of the items that we had discussed in some other conversations was you know up creating more optionality for new construction in terms of green building standards. So I'm wondering and maybe this would be too big of a lift but like there's a lot of things in the green building standards that have absolutely nothing to do with climate like the you know build green emerald star you get points for like using local timber like that's great and all but you know is that necessarily gerine to climate action and a lot of them like especially with like lead their requirements for energy efficiency are like honestly less stringent than the Washington state energy code. So, this is actually true, by the way. Um, and so I think, you know, and it takes a lot of effort for these builders to go through the energy certification process. So, I'm wondering if we could consider saying like, okay, if you don't want to go through the whole certification process, if you're like all electric and have like the most efficient heat pump, then that satisfies a sustainability requirement. That makes it simpler and also gets us closer to our goal of, you know, decarbonization. Um, yeah. Oh, and also in the lead one, uh you'll love this. There's you get points if you have um open uh open space amenities on site. Um water efficiency, water efficiency is actually important, but there's there's all sorts of random things in there which like don't necessarily have anything to do with climate action. And so I think we should consider whether we can have an alternative pathway that's very focused on, you know, having the lowest emissions building possible. Um and okay, I think that was it for me. Council member Nichols. >> Yeah, thank you. Um, I think I am generally aligned with the staff recommendations here. Um, I will say on the the dark sky ordinance, I would like to have that brought back to us with whatever the specific concerns are at the moment. And I would otherwise I I would otherwise support this as a policy. Um I think what's what's not really taken into account here is on the on the climate side of things um ecological effects from climate change causing particularly migratory bird uh patterns to change etc that um dark sky ordinances can help with. We are on all sorts of flyaways. We have a giant lake, lots of parks, lots of good places to land if you are a bird. Um, this this feeds into that and I think the appropriate place for that kind of thing to live is probably in our climate policy. Um, because it's an impact in many ways. Um otherwise I I will defer to deputy council president's um statements on most of the building the the home energy and building benchmarks um as well as the time of replacement stuff. I think um this points they all make sense and I think they're I'm I'm mostly aligned with that. Um, and I I think if I'm reading this correctly, that's also mostly what the city is saying, but maybe correct me if I'm misreading that. Um, yeah. So, I I don't have as many strong opinions on this side of the of these policies. Um, and I appreciate all the thought and work that went into crafting these and trying to get to some consensus on it. Thanks. And I will just add in so from my perspective the building energy benchmarking and the home energy score are really state level policies and so I would be happy to advocate for them. Um but I don't necessarily see how a city of our size um really moves the needle in that direction. Um, time of replacement I was also going to say would be best at a state level. Um, just for the idea that then everybody hears about it. Um, but I thought back to it and I said, "Well, we're the ones that give out the permit for whether or not you can do an install." And so I think it may make sense from a city standpoint. I am interested to have a conversation about what the discounts are compared to the costs um as somebody who when we put something in 10 years ago couldn't fit what was on the market at the time um within the scope of our property. Um I'm also understanding of some of those ideas. So I think this is one I would be comfortable keeping or putting in the IAP and then having further discussions over how do we make that happen? Um because ultimately what we are looking at here is a plan for addressing our impacts on climate. And this is not necessarily saying we have to do these things right now in a certain way, but it does incentivize us to have a conversation um around them. And then dark sky, I don't have an opinion on it. Um I think there's the you know kind of bird and animal side of things. There's also the energy use. And so if we felt like the energy use of having big buildings have their lights on overnight, um particularly ones that can be seen from the freeway as you were driving past, um is something that is impactful, then maybe we can have a conversation. But I don't feel strongly that that would move the needle on our overall climate. Uh Council Member Nichols. Yeah, thank you. You reminded me of one point that I missed. So, um, related to some of these policies in terms of what's appropriate more at the local versus the state level, I think a lot of these could make more could make a lot of sense at the state level. And I think one thing to consider would be I'm not sure exactly how we would work this but um adop trying to util if we can put these as directional goals for the city that don't have specific city policy requirements but things that we would like to see pushed on at the state level. uh that might be a better way to drive towards some things that we want but that we don't think that would be feasible from a staff or scale perspective to be done at the city level because they would you know just I could imagine some of these scores for example could require a halfime if not more than that employee to manage something like that. Um and uh if we instead had that le uh done at the state level, it could be much more efficient. Which is not to say I don't support it. It's just that um maybe we can try to find a way to support that that sort of thing through our legislative agenda instead of directly uh implementing it within Isqua itself. >> More go ahead. Um, okay. This one is a little bit unrelated to climate, but as I was reading through, you know, the climate action plan, one thing that came to mind was, I mean, with composting, so when I first moved to Isqua, like five and a half years ago, I had to request a compost bin. Almost none of my neighbors have it. It's not necessarily the biggest climate action, but you know, food waste and landfills emits methane, which has 100 times potency as carbon dioxide on a 25-y year time frame. And like, literally, all you have to do is just request the bin from ecology. So, I'm wondering if this is something where we could do like a marketing campaign of be like, "Hey, you know, you can do compost." Um, and you know, even if it's not like the biggest needle mover on uh climate, it's still a good sustainability action that we should be encouraging our residents to take. >> Yeah, absolutely. And we have a section in the plan around materials and consumption that talks a lot about that outreach and education. So, we just didn't bring all of those actions to you tonight. So, >> great. Thank you. Great. Um, can you go to slide 19, which is really the option one, two, and three idea. One more. Yeah. So, um, I guess the next question for us and maybe I'll ask you Stacy, as you've heard what we have said, we've obviously advocated for certain areas. do when you're talking about the timeline of this ISQA climate action plan, how do you feel this either coming back between these options would work out? What are the impacts? Um, and do you feel anything is necessary to work through >> work through this evening? >> Well, I I think this was either return to full counsel or PTE for further direction. Do you feel like we fell into any of these buckets? >> Um, I think we got great feedback tonight. I do have a couple questions I wanted to just follow up on to make sure I had clarity, but um, what our plan was coming out of this discussion is we would incorporate your feedback into a full set of actions that will go to the environmental board next week. I think I have enough direction tonight. Um, as you said, these would be framed as kind of assessing the feasibility of implementing this type of policy. So, it's not committing the city to do it. It's digging in deeper, whether it's around um what percent of EV capable would we want to require EV ready or um what would a timer replacement requirement look like for our city. So there'd be a lot more investigation into these policies. Um, and it's not committing the city to implement the policy, but committing us to further evaluate and come to council for discussion. Um, so that being said, I think I have received uh great feedback tonight on the policies that were brought to TAB and PPC and revised with a staff recommendation um that I feel comfortable moving those to the board next week for early input. >> Great. And you said you had some questions. Anything that we can clear up? >> Um, one was around the percent EV capable or ready. Um based on your feedback, what I would do is we would frame the action in the plan around um looking in further into that and doing a study to come back and propose a percentage of capable and ready parking that we would recommend. We'd have discussions with developers, understand costs and benefits. I wanted to make sure that you all didn't have in mind a requirement you wanted to put into the plan uh that we work to move through a a policy a percentage requirement in mind or if that should be part of the evaluation. >> Deputy council president, >> I guess my preference would be 100% but at a level that's lower than EV capable. Mhm. >> Um, which is basically, you know, just the plumbing tubes and wires but without the oversized electrical service. >> And I would say I'm kind of of the same thing if we're talking about what should we be planning toward. Uh, yes, let's go toward that. And if through conversations we find that it's better as a tradeoff between one element and another, then we can have that conversation later down the line. But let's not cut ourselves off too early. Okay. Um, great. And then just a couple comments. I appreciate I recognize it's a we're not presenting the full set of actions so a bit um hard for you all to provide uh that feedback but there were some ideas that came out of the discussion that we did not currently have in the IAP like incentives for bike racks um items like that that we'll make sure to incorporate. We do have a action around state advocacy and so I think there are some good suggestions here that we might be able to specify some of those particular programs that we feel like would be good but maybe aren't right sized at a city level to implement. >> Great. Do you need anything else from us on that? Oh, Council Member Nichols. >> Yeah, just a line to make sure that we're clear on kind of direct the direction side of this. So, um, on the EV side of things, it sounded like there you might when you initially responding, you were looking more towards going um, and trying to have more of a discussion. I think I I I do think the the discussion up here was pretty clear. So, I I think we we don't need as much back and forth there. I would say the same thing was true from the parking minimums perspective. >> Um, >> see alignment on that. I think there is for including in IAP. I think it's going to be an further conversation on council. >> Um but as far as what needs to be included in IAP, the idea of creating uh fewer parking minimums um particularly in those areas I think was pretty clear on that. So that's ready to go back to PPC then, right? Um, I think our next step would be through the environmental board and then I can talk with the team if we need to do another review through PPC. >> Okay, great. Anything else there? No. Okay. Okay, >> great. >> So, yes, our next steps will be to incorporate any of that feedback. Um, we'll follow up with any questions and then um next week we are meeting with the environmental board for that full initial full review of the revised targets and actions. And so we'll share this feedback with the environmental board and return to them again in April for the conversation. >> Great on this one. >> And madam chair, members of the committee. So >> this will then come back to this committee. We'll go to a committee the whole >> what's the next step? >> That's the other presentation. >> That's the other presentation. >> We tried to separate it out. >> We're going there next. Just didn't want us to leave the room tonight. Oh, we are not. We have a whole other topic tonight, which is uh column 0257, the pathway and timeline for climate action plan adoption. And Stacy, as you said, a lot of this is kind of duplicate stuff, so I think we can uh jump through as much as necessary. Um, but I'll let you get that presentation up. And the big idea at the end is does this go to committee of the whole or does this go to PTE after several other touches in the meantime. So I'll let you take it away. >> Great. Thank you. I will move through very quickly since we have discussed a lot of this. Um again tonight we're really looking for your feedback on the process to move forward the IAP for council review and adoption. Um and we've proposed a couple of options. Um these are similar to what we discussed back at the February meeting um that we could we proposed the option to go through council the whole or return back to this committee for further review. Um just as a very very brief review um the plan uh again was adopted in December 2021. We're working through um this five-year uh update through the process that I described in the earlier presentation. Um again, taking uh the components of this plan through committees, boards, commissions, community outreach um and then bringing forward to PTE committee. Um I reviewed these in February, but um wanted to just speak briefly to them uh with the the reorganization of our committees. Um on this the screen are some of the major revisions that we are working on for this plan update. We're really working to better connect the targets and actions in the plan. Um we've had some targets that were disconnected from the actions. Uh for instance, in our natural systems focus area, we have a tree canopy target, but very few actions in that section that focused on enhancing tree canopy. uh with um another connection that we're working on making is with the update of the comprehensive plan, making sure that we're bringing in those updated components into the IAAP for better alignment. Um we did not have a municipal target in the plan. So we've been working uh internally and with the environmental board to develop those targets. The current plan has some very specific actions around particular campaigns that were important to the community at the time uh the 2021 plan plan was passed. Um we're looking to broaden those out just to allow for more flexibility, make sure that we're um responding to the most important priorities at the time. Um and we're doing a pretty significant review of how we are measuring progress and reporting on that. We've been working with a metrics committee um and we'll be proposing those recommendations to the environmental board next week um to make sure that we're really reporting out to the community uh meaningful uh metrics from uh that demonstrate progress or lack thereof. Um and then one of the big changes is that that we'll be discussing more with you all as we continue this review is we're looking at a 10-year plan. This is really um to uh demonstrate that we have a general sense of the work that needs to be done in those biggest areas of impact. Um and this will uh reduce capacity needs for updating a plan every five years. Um but we are building in some checkpoints where the environmental board could request a review or an update if needed at a mid-year point. Um and again reviewed this uh process uh back in February. Wanted to um just reiterate the process we're going through. We started this plan update about a year ago uh working with those committees and beginning to look at revisions that were occurring in our neighboring jurisdictions plans. Um we've been going through a public engagement event uh most heavily focused on board commission review uh starting back in the fall and through this winter. Um and then uh currently are completing up that uh board to commission review as well as working with that metrics committee. Um as I just shared uh we are planning to meet with our environmental board over the next two months um to do a full review of the plan and bring forward their recommendation to council. Um so in speaking with our clerk's office uh we are proposing um two options before you all tonight on how we want to continue moving forward review of the plan. Uh the first option would be uh to work through um a council of the whole um and meet with um them the full council in May and then to bring the plan for council review and approval in either uh June or July. The other option would be to work through this committee um return to you all in May uh to continue the discussion on the IAP and bring um the the the feedback from the environmental board and then move to council in June or July depending on whether the committee felt we were ready. Um a couple notes I just wanted to touch on is uh one of the reason we proposed meeting with the council of the whole is we felt that the IAP touches multiple uh committees of the council and so this would be an opportunity to to be in front of essentially all the committees at once. Um, and then the other note I'll just make is this summer deadline. That's our own internal deadline. We've set we do not have to complete climate plan adoption this summer. Um, however, we feel that it is important to complete this process ahead of the budget requests. the updates to this plan are really going to inform um the budget requests that we have uh coming forward um to administration and council uh this fall and winter. So that is one reason we wanted to wrap this process up um early in the summer. Um the other piece is it's it's a heavy workload to update a plan. We have really appreciated going through this process um being able to review the progress we've made and make sure that we're updating this plan. So it's the most solid foundation for our work going forward. Um but we really love the implementation work and we want to be uh focusing as much of our time of moving uh projects and programs forward as well. So uh again tonight we're looking for your feedback on whether we want to move this process now to the um committee of the whole or uh continue working through uh the PTE committee. Great. Um, question, and maybe this is more of a question for city administrator Bob Quitz. Uh, we just gave PTE a lot of work with the um building incentives plan. So, do do we feel like we have room more room on the committee of the whole schedule versus the planning development environment schedule in that May time period? Madam chair, members of the committee, uh PD may likely then need an additional meeting in May because as we've talked to the community planning and development staff today, uh they are planning on using your May meeting for other matters. So, um one way or another, I think there may be another meeting in the mix either for PTE or having a cow because I think we're also weighing what items are coming before the full council. We have the uh retreat um coming up on uh the 9th. Um I think the following Monday. Pull up my planning calendar. Things are getting busy. >> You don't say. Huh? >> Okay. Because typically I would say, hey, if staff and the administration thinks that our workload is better balanced in one way or the other, that would be an important piece um for me. But there's nobody around, so I'm not going to go for public comment. We're not going to separate out questions versus comments. Any feedback? So, um, based based on the conversation we have with the city clerk, uh, she's already pitched a sequence of events here on the latest edition of the planning calendar. Um, she has the, uh, the council meeting on the Saturday, the 9th of May. She then has a committee, the whole on the 11th doing the climate action plan, uh, mobility and infrastructure on the 12th, but PTE, I'm sorry, I should have gone back. PTE on the 5th, the Saturday meeting on the 9th, committee the whole on the 11th. >> Yeah. >> So if if you would like to keep it here, then I think that would mean a second PTE meeting on consecutive weeks. >> Otherwise, we would flip it out for the council on the same day. So um I think there are pros and cons. I think as as Stacy's mentioned, this is something that crosses multiple disciplines. Uh, and I'm sure your colleagues would be interested. Um, it'll mean a Saturday, Monday, um, sequence for them. >> Yeah. Well, the committee of the whole was already scheduled, so I'm not going to >> Well, no, no, this is this is the train keeps moving. This is for tomorrow morning's 8:00 Yes. um, uh, leadership meeting. Fantastic. So, we've not shared the sequences. We just had the discussion this morning. So you're actually hearing about it prior to us discussing it tomorrow morning at leadership. >> Uh deputy council president. >> Yeah. I mean it is on the most recent planning calendar and I think when we talked about this last month I mean you know given I feel like we've had a lot of committee of the whole meetings about kind of a broad topic right like housing, transportation um you know parks. And I do think climate action in terms of being that big of enough of an area that should be brought up to the whole council is like a strategic thing. Um I do think it deserves that level of, you know, review and a committee of the whole. So I'm in favor of uh reviewing through the committee of the whole. >> I I honestly don't have a strong opinion. Um I I could see it fitting well with either. I'm happy to defer to staff with what makes the most sense. Yeah, I I'm perfectly fine with it going to committee of the whole I don't I feel like we as PD have had touch points and so it's not like you are skipping over the planning development and environment board and so taking that um further step at committee of the whole which also frees up some time on our PD calendar makes perfect sense. So I think no problems with it going to committee of the whole then. >> Very good. We'll share that with council leadership tomorrow morning. >> Okay. Fantastic. Well um with that I think our last um piece is just announcements. Do any committee members have any announcements to make? Okay. Yeah. Go ahead. I guess minor announcement um is that our meeting in April is canled because of Oh, that was the next piece which is next committee committee meeting date is May 5th. April 7th meeting was cancelled um because of a special city council member or city council meeting that night um to look at potential uh vacancy applicants um for city council. So, yeah. >> Great. >> Okay. And with that, we are adjourned at 7:54 p.m. Thank you.